Thread 281084254

I don't get it

there's nothing to get

DO YOU LIKE MY CAR

>>281084254 (OP)
3deep5you anime for midwits

>>281084254 (OP)
I really don't get it

>>281084254 (OP)
TAKE MY LEVOLUTION

>>281084254 (OP)
dude sex lmao

>>281084254 (OP)
Of course you don't get it

>>281084254 (OP)
This one is about love
>>281085157
This one is also about love.

>>281084254 (OP)
>>281085157
To be fair you unironically need a really high IQ to be able to understand Ikuhara anime.

>>281086230
>love
Incest you mean, they’re both about incest.

>>281084254 (OP)
Jeets have such huge cocks even their own sister wants to fuck them.

It's also okay for a 22 year old to fuck 14 year olds.

>>281084254 (OP)
I dont know why but I really wanted to fuck mikki as a kid
My tastes have developed since then, thankfully

>>281084254 (OP)
Panty & Stocking for virgins.

This is girl Evangelion, I don't know what's not to get. The themes are barely under the surface.

>>281084254 (OP)
>Woke slop

>>281084254 (OP)
There's no revolution. The changes will start when you (plural) just be urself.
>>281085157
Sarin gas doesn't kill people, normalfags do.

>>281084254 (OP)
There's nothing to get, it's just purpousely vague "symbolism" that is menaingless since the author himself barely knew what he wanted it all to mean beyond the obvious surface level themes. Basically it's the equivalent of "all style no substance" but in pretentious symbolic form. Still a 8/10 anime tho, even if the symbols are menaingless they are still pretty to look at and the surface themes and characters are actually solid enough too on their own.

WITH A CAR YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE

>>281086187
Wakarimasu…

>>281084254 (OP)
Indian guy sets up some retarded bullshit so he can get a continuous stream of JK pussy. Utena buys into it until she ends up becoming his next sidepiece and realizes that everything that's happened in the show is stupid and leaves.

>>281084254 (OP)
there there hoodweeb, why don't you go watch more shonenslop, don't overwork your brain with plots that require thinking

>>281084254 (OP)
ur a pleb

>>281084254 (OP)
ur a woman?

Utena is kind of an interesting mirror to Shinji.

Shinji:
>boy
>in a show that initially looks like it's solidly in a boy genre (mecha)
>acts like a girl in many situations
>outwardly shy but is somewhat gregarious and confident if given the opportunity
>rejects the sexual advances of his mentor
>ends his show resolving to truly live for the first time
>ends up with a hot teenage love interest at the end of his movie and tries to kill her

Utena:
>girl
>in a show that at first straightforwardly looks like one in a girl genre (shoujo)
>acts like a boy in many situations
>outwardly confident and outgoing but shows a vulnerable side to those closest to her
>successfully fucks her older mentor
>ends her show fucking dead
>ends up with a hot teenage (really 1000 years old) love interest at the end of her movie and succeeds in kissing her

>>281084254 (OP)
i get it

>>281084254 (OP)
i dont get it

i got it

tumblr slop for evatards. fuck anno and fuck you if you like this garbage too

>>281084254 (OP)
gnosticism n shieeet

>>281084254 (OP)
It's okay, you don't need to get something to feel

>>281084254 (OP)
>>281085157
Why does Ikuhara insert incest in practically everything he works on? What does he mean by this?

>>281084254 (OP)
get it

>>281084254 (OP)
It's about the roles that we play, and how to change our roles into something else requires great effort.

>>281085157
It's about society and family as a reflection of it, and how society deals with its ugly side such tragedy and neglect.

>>281095592
Utena is way more assertive and proactive than Shinji though. The whole plot begins because she picks a fight with Saionji. Characters like Utena also had precedent in the Shoujo genre before her in the form of characters like Lady Oscar and Princess Knight. Shinji meanwhile, was a complete subversion of what your typical mecha protagonist should be.

Essentially, what I’m saying is that tomboys in shoujo are nothing new, and in fact they appear often in shoujo because they’re so popular.

>>281084254 (OP)
All the characters have different negative childhood experiences/trauma. They develope different kind of defenses against dealing with trauma induced injuries, which the show often takes to absurdity.
At the end it is about letting go of these defenses and stories they tell themselves to cope.

>>281091591
you got filtered hard

>>281098834
no u

>movie is literally called ADOLSCENCE of Utena
But what could it be about???

>>281091591
>there's nothing to get
Anon the car means freedom and the swords piercing Himemiya at the end are the hatred of women. The transformation scene is Utena getting wet. The coffin is a metaphor fir grief and depression. Juri's pendant is her love for Shiori. It's not hard

>>281084254 (OP)
got it

>>281084254 (OP)
It's about people who got trapped in a moment in time. Not in the literal sense but there is something in their history that they become so focused on it becomes Eternity. The Revolution in Revolutionary girl Utena is not just an upheaval but a literal turning forward of the clock to escape Eternity. The show's repetitiveness is also part of that theme.

Something I find interesting about the series is that Utena is clearly a feminist anime and fits the views of western feminism like a glove, and yet Ikuhara claims to have done it accidentally.

Somehow, I don’t buy it. It just fits FAR too well.

>>281084254 (OP)
>jeet becomes immortal
>first thing he does is start raping his sister
>every few decades raped a new woman
>begins to rape the men also
>begins to teach the men to rape other women

truly ahead of its time in prophecy

>>281089331
>Utena
>woke slop
It can’t be woke if it has a brown man as the villain who they portray as an incestuous pedophile rapist, that makes it the very opposite of woke in fact.

>>281099832
I would define the series as “Schrödinger’s woke”. It’s EXTREMELY popular with the woke crowd, and has many woke elements and themes, but it was also not intended to be woke and is mostly just the passion project of a flamboyant straight man who has a fetish for lesbians, teenage girls and David Lynch. That, and the series is liked by people who are anti-woke too.

>>281099976
>>281099832
it's a show about how men are evil. You're literally deluding yourself if you think it isn't.

>>281099976
>muh woke
what does that exactly mean in the context of Utena? Name the topics, behaviors and patterns in detail. Then explain what is good or bad about them
In case it is just, "mental illnes is a topic in Utena and a big topic in woke circles" or "female main characters" dont bother with a reply

>>281100077
That is the same retarded way of thinking as the jeans/genes crowd

>>281100109
>explicit, canon LGBT themes
>features ethnic minorities in a setting where they would be atypical (it’s handled very elegantly, but still)
>explicit feminist themes including the main antagonist being the literal embodiment of toxic masculinity and the patriarchy
>criticises masculinity (not to the extent of saying “men bad”, but there’s not a single innocent male character, and insecurities arising from masculinity are often seen as the cause of their flaws)


All of these are executed well by he show, but they are elements you typically see in “woke” fiction. I guess the argument is that Utena is an example of good woke fiction.

>>281099976
It's super woke if we're using the term of the day.
It was more interesting to me back in the past reading what tumblrites didn't like about the series than what they liked.
Particularly their inability to ever deal with Ruka but in general the shoujo rapey tropes that aren't always played for pure evil in the genre or in Utena itself.

>>281100077
>it's a show about how men are evil.
Yeah, BROWN men, not white men. It would only be woke if Akio was white and all the heroes were brown.

>>281100366
Ruka is a fucking goldmine of controversy. Yes, he was a dick, but what he did was for the greater good, and Juri benefited from it immensely. To me, I think it ties into the broader series theme of love being a redemptive force, even if it comes in unconventional forms or is painful.

The Utena fandom is weird to me, because it’s either amazing or cringe depending on what aspect of the fandom you look at. On the one hand, you get some top-tier fan analysis and discussion, but on the other hand you also have to deal with the cringe of Tumblrites.

I also wish the series had way more porn.

>>281100213
>minorities in atypical setting
What setting is that and why is it atypical? I had minorities at my school in the 90s. I guess that would be true for Japan as well. Them being brown skinned is not even a topic in the show
>masculinity
They are not portrayed as evil because of their masculinity, it is just incidental. There are many evil females as well
Name examples where insecurities arising from their masculinity are portrayed as you claim
>lgbt
What is your problem with that in the show? Do you really believe consenting adult should not fuck eachother? Again the show does not come down with a woke judgment on the viewer.

Your mind is stuck in this woke/anti woke paradigm. The show is about bad childhood expiriences and the psychological damage they cause. Bad behavior is incidental to gender and sexual orientation as protrayed in the show.

>>281100213
>features ethnic minorities in a setting where they would be atypical (it’s handled very elegantly, but still)
Yes but those ethnic minorities are portrayed as evil so it’s actually anti-woke.

>>281084299
i get everything kid

>>281084254 (OP)
ZETTAI
UNMEI
MOKUSHIROKU

>>281084254 (OP)
gay sex
>>281085157
also gay sex
>>281086187
another gay sex
im fine with it because Ikuhara can turn gay anime into masterpiece

>>281100832
At no point did I say that I had a problem with anything that was depicted. I’m just saying that these elements are elements that Utena has in common with woke media, and the only thing that separates Utena is that these tropes are executed very well, making the show good.

>>281101143
Anthy’s manipulative nature is excused because she’s a rape victim, and the main romance in the series is interracial.

>>281101601
Akio is objectively attractive and is also very charismatic. Utena falls for him for the same reason a lot of women fall for “bad boys” who outwardly seem charming and interesting, but eventually reveal themselves to be abusive and controlling.

>>281084647
i do

>>281101804
Utena genuinely didn’t know that Akio was End of The World until the very end. Only the audience, Anthy and the Student Council know.

>>281087346
Incest is love between family members, so it's still about love.

>>281084254 (OP)
Once you go brown you never go down

>>281087346
There was less incest in Penguin drum if you really watch it

>>281102300
Why do yurifags despise heterosexual relationships so much?

I like yuri, but I take no issue with hetero stuff.

>there's nothing to get.
The show spells it out time and time again, you absolute fucking brainlets.

>>281100213
>but there’s not a single innocent male character
There's not a single innocent female character either. Even Utena ends up betraying and hurting Anthy, and one of the best moment in the series, is when they confront each other about it. The show is never about toxic masculinity, but about toxic relationships in general.

>>281101804
>>281101948
Utena's a woman. How is her making retarded romantic decisions she immediately regrets jarring?

>>281084299
wrong

>>281086230
Define love.

>>281084254 (OP)
They gay.

>>281101601
He has a jazz-playing sports car and he rides it shirtless on the hood.
Of course he gets laid.

It’s been ages since I watched this and I don’t remember what the purpose of the projection arena battles were. I get that the Prince was trying to bring out the nobility / spirit / power or something of the combatants in order to select a champion whom he would harvest power in order to break the final barrier…..but, why? Were not both the Prince and Princess alive and free to interact as they please? Or was it a really tortured metaphor over emotional estrangement?

>>281101804
>bad boy who gets laid a lot gets laid again

no way!

>>281101804
>she knows he's a ban person
She doesn't. That's the point. He takes advantage of her naivety and her childish infatuation with the figure of the prince. It's not until the very end that she learns his true nature. Also, it's worth remembering that Utena is 14 years old in the series. The guy basically groomed her.

>>281101601
>It's totally nonsensical why they not only let it happen
Yeah, it’s totally unheard of for an adult in a position of power, who also happens to be incredibly hot, to use his charm and assets to fuck easily impressionable teens. For all its wacky imagery, this is the most unrealistic part of the series.

>>281101948
That's not what happen. Did you even watch the show? It didn't happen from one scene to the next. The guy worked his way gradually over the span of several episodes (a whole ass cour).

>>281084254 (OP)
Normalfags can’t ever hope to grasp the nuance of tranime.

>>281104703
Why does Ikuhara act like a fruity camp gay man when he’s actually a straight dude who fucks underage fangirls and turned down Anno’s homo advances?

>>281084254 (OP)
>>281085157
Two masterpieces. No other creator can reach this level.

>>281104907
Dezaki mogs Ikuni in terms of sheer consistency and output. Many of the staff at Be-Papas were also former colleagues of Dezaki, which is why Ikuhara never made anything quite as good as Utena again.

>>281104983
>which is why Ikuhara never made anything quite as good as Utena again.
Penguindrum already proves this wrong

>>281084647
wrong anime

>>281102300
too long, shorten it

>>281102627
She was, like 14. That doesn't fucking count.

ur slow op

>>281099447
Holy fuck, this clears up several questions I had with this series and movie. I have just finished them and felt it was an unclear mess of half-baked intentions and lack of progression.
I am still let down by it, but thanks for the explanation anyway.

>>281099447
Correct analogy finally

>>281103896
Yeah it was to bring out Utena's power to use it. The symbolism is that the duels were meaningless in actuality.

>>281084254 (OP)
She became a car.

>>281086230
Wrong, Utena is about cars.

>>281104907
Anno

>>281108100
When I saw EoE in theaters last summer there was a car in the parking lot with a bumper sticker that said "My other car is Utena" which was pretty funny

>>281104840
Because it's fun. Nothing wrong with dressing up as a girl and having some sex with your bros, as long as it's just for laughs. But you have to say "just kidding" or "no homo" afterwards or it's gay.

>>281084254 (OP)
maybe the revolution was the girls we met all along

>>281103844
This anon gets it. The only defense against a guy with a cool car is to become a cool car yourself.

>>281109240
Was probably an Ohtori.nu user if I had to guess. A site which I’m frankly amazed is still going.

Something something gender roles are restrictive and by trying to conform to those stereotypes you eventually end up abusing yourself and people around you........... I think?

>>281104840
>Ikuhara
>straight
He’s actually a bislut, no straight man can be such a Fujo/Fundashi like him and make something like freaking Sarazanmai.

>>281085157
I didn't get it but the ending still made me cry

>>281100555
It was just funny to me to see people write fairly insightful things (sometimes doing analyses of each and every episode at length) about the series and then when it came to the series doing something ever so clearly they didn't like, they'd twist themselves into a pretzel trying to make it something its not or suddenly they'd get stupid and all the insight from earlier would evaporate and they'd just write something dumb about it pretending not to see it for what it was.
It's like watching people interpret the Bible, they'd already decided Utena was their holy gay tome so they were really motivated to interpret every aspect of it a certain way. And while it's gay and "woke" as fuck it's not a 1:1 morality play mouthpiece of 2010's tumblrite (or today's wokies) canon because what could be, right? But they sure wanted it to be just that.

It was just a really clear case of seeing other people's blinders and having a giggle at how dumb it can make people.

>>281104840
>Ikuhara fucks underage fangirls
Proofs? No man who wrote such a scathing commentary on grooming like he did in Utena could be an actual one…

>>281110740
Working backwards from a conclusion to try and justify that conclusion rather than being objective is unfortunately a common practice in intellectual spheres. Especially online ones. It also doesn’t help that these people will often invoke death of the author as a flimsy excuse to justify their theories.


>>281110967
>No man who wrote such a scathing commentary on grooming like he did in Utena could be an actual one…

Reminder that pic related is official artwork done for the series of a character who’s canonically 14. Ikuhara is very pro-sex, and his waifu is also Sailor Mars (another high school aged girl). Plus, I heard rumours (albeit unconfirmed ones) that Ikuhara is a massive manslut at conventions and fucks the girls who cosplay.

I’d even go as far to argue that the problem with Akio and Utena’s relationship wasn’t the age gap or power dynamic, but rather the manipulation involved. The show doesn’t seem to imply anything else.

>>281112160
To be honest I'm pretty sure he's more like CLAMP than he ever directly shows. Ie he probably does believe there are situations where love triumphs overall even if in general he doesn't believe every relationship will work out

>>281100366
Unironically some people don't even get that Utena and Touga had a positive relationship at the end. With the movie even further showing they could have dated without it being some big terrible thing. Granted that's not that large a part of the Fandom.


Ruka on the other hand is probably the biggest lightning rod for alternative character takes. Either he's full on evil rapist or secretly a true saint, when really he's supposed to be somewhere in between.

Though for my part I do ultimately think the show wants to show him in the wrong even with good intentions because it later shows that Touga can't win over Utena because despite his good intentions his methods are bad

>>281109249
Somewhere deep down Anno wished Ikuhara didn't say "No homo"

>>281112378
Rula never intended to win over Juri though. Even though he loved her, he knew that was a lost cause because she was gay. What he did instead was deliberately paint himself as a bad guy and manipulate events so Juri and Shiori could make up and possibly get together.

He truly loved Juri, because for him, her being happy was enough.

>>281112420
>Somewhere deep down Anno wished Ikuhara didn't say "No homo"
Ikuhara is most definitely bi, all men who are Fundashi are. What probably happened is that either Anno himself just isn’t Ikuhara’s type or he was afraid to ruin their close friendship with sex.

>>281099673
I think he means hes always tended toward feminist views and didn't need to look up western feminism for his ideas, not that he isn't a feminist or anything

>>281112160
>Reminder that pic related is official artwork done for the series of a character who’s canonically 14. Ikuhara is very pro-sex, and his waifu is also Sailor Mars (another high school aged girl).
Both Utena and Rei are drawn to look like adult women, or at the very least late high-school students, just based on that alone I trust him way more to be a non-pedo compared to a guy who draws lolis yet labels their age as “over 3000 years old” or some shit. The image you posted isn’t even meant to be in a fanservice manner, more tasteful/artful erotica and that’s on you if you can’t tell the difference.

Ikuhara has never once created or designed your typical animu moe lolis, so I have no reason to suspect he’s a pedo.

>Plus, I heard rumours (albeit unconfirmed ones) that Ikuhara is a massive manslut at conventions and fucks the girls who cosplay.
Were these girls underage or adults though? Cause the latter is legal and therefore not grooming.

>I’d even go as far to argue that the problem with Akio and Utena’s relationship wasn’t the age gap or power dynamic, but rather the manipulation involved. The show doesn’t seem to imply anything else.
Next you’re going to claim manipulation was the only problem in Akio and Anthy’s relationship too and not y’know, the incest?

>>281114574
Finding teens hot doesn’t make you a pedo. The characters in Utena and SM are very obviously teens based on their height and proportions. Neither show sexualises little kids, but teens are fair game because that’s totally legal in Japan (and honestly, most other parts of the world too).

>>281114755
>Neither show sexualises little kids
The Chibiusa panty-shots???

>>281084254 (OP)
No one has ever been logically able to explain why Utena and Anthy let themselves get fucked curry shit dick man whore. It's totally nonsensical why they not only let it happen, but also agree to it.

>>281115154
In Utena’s case: naive idealist gets manipulated by a charming Chad who manages to woo her by being really nice and courteous to her

In Anthy’s case: they’re bound by the same curse and he’s the only one who showed any degree of kindness to her, so Stockholm Syndrome is in play.

>>281115237
Utena knew he had multiple ex's with messy break ups. Red flags don't get much more blatant than that.

>showed any degree of kindness to her
"he was nice to me" isn't a logical reason.

>>281115658
Why does Anthy look so hot with her hair down, but so mid with her hair done up?

>>281099447
This is what I got from it too but reading certain people's interpretations made me feel crazy. Turns out they were just projecting their mental illness onto Ikuhara, kinda like this thread.

>>281084254 (OP)
I interpreted it as a metaphor to moving on from childhood trauma or abuse. In Utena’s case she simply extracted herself from Akio’s world and control and inspired Anthy to do the same.

>>281084254 (OP)
This is like gay people's version of Naruto culturally

>>281103896
The arena and by extension the duels and the search of Anthys brother for the person who can "bring about revolutions" are the frigid rules of the constructed world the school takes place in. Utenas pure and noble desire to protect Anthy matches up closely to what the ideals of what a supposed-perfect prince would do which is why his spirit descends from the upside down castle whenever she needs it. The issue is that no-one can realistically live up to these ideals, not even the actual prince in question who is actually Anthy's brother, corrupted and left an empty shell after his vain attempts to answer the needs of everyone.

I think the show is overrated but I'd be lying if ZETTAI UNMEI MOKUSHIROKU wasn't stuck in my head.

One of the hottest scenes in any anime ever dykes getting dicked down will always be top tier.

>>281117957
Utena isn’t a dyke, technically. She’s bi.

Juri is the only true dyke in the show.

Peak Ikuhara in the commentary.

>>281117423
Never saw it that way. Spot on.

>>281118021
Time to repost the relevant diagram.

>>281118021
I mean technically you're right but try arguing that outside of here and you'll be ass blasted by a bunch of pedantic asshats. The general consensus is that she's a dyke but I don't really care it just makes that particular scene hotter.

Everything innocent stands for sex; everything sexual is entirely innocent.

The only thing I feel I didn't have a grasp on was the blue haired boy and his stopwatch. I always interpreted it as Ikuhara poking fun a little at theorists who comb every detail to squeeze out some deeper underlying meaning to everything. "Just listen to the song" but that's an incredibly hard ask for this specific show and how subtext/symbolism heavy it is. Does anyone have any interesting interpretations?

>>281118401
Honestly I think >>281099447's theory is tied into this somehow. It could be a red herring as you say but I think with the themes of everyone having arrested development you can make an argument that the stopwatch is actually symbolic.

>>281118133
This diagram should be posted for all of Ikuhara’s shows, can you do one for each please anon?

>>281118098
The amazing interior decor is worth commentating on really

>>281118133
>Anthy
>bi
Technically we don’t know her true sexuality since she never actually consented to Akio and was continuously raped by him every night, it’s not like she slept with him out of free-will or actually enjoyed it. Based on the movie she actually seems to lean lesbian more than anything else….

>Miki
>straight
In one of the novels he sleeps with Kozue and Touga in a threesome, so I would place him in the bi category.

>>281112378
He is as Ikuhara says he is 'the guy who rubs your face in your own flaws, how unpleasant, but I have to begrudgingly admit in hindsight maybe it was something I needed'.
So the show does highlight the unpleasant, to put it mildly, nature of his methods. But I do think it isn't even the show's position to ask whether that methodology is good or bad. The show's position is it's awful to go through, and maybe it's what Juri needed to later arrive at where she was at the end.
And I think true to Ikuhara's own anecdote about leaning toward 'I might have needed it' the show leans into Juri's character arc needing Ruka to be there.

>>281118133
Shouldn't Mikage be in the bi circle since he was in love with Tokiko while also being super touchy-feely with Anthy!Mamiya?