How did this go from being seen as a masterpiece of the medium to a baby's first seinen?

>>281113775 (OP)
Was it seen as a masterpiece? I remember lost shounenbabies saying they talked to much and even calling it a shonen. The blogosphere preferred Space Brothers.

>>281113775 (OP)
because it's a saber humiliation ritual

>>281113775 (OP)
Saberfags nitpick about it because they got insecure about how she came out on the losing end (even though it's literally part of her backstory and explains her behavior in Fate) and UBWfags got butthurt about everyone clowning on UBW being so light-hearted in comparison to Zero.

>>281113775 (OP)
>babies first seinen
Chainsaw man is much more popular than F/Z

Fate/Zero? Yep. It was kino. Good times.

>>281114196
The shounen jump series?

It's only seen as shitty spam threads.

>>281114443
You definitely weren't here in 2013.

Sort of realted, but how is Strange Fake? Anyone seen/read it?

Zerofags are fucking stupid for convincing me and (anyone else unlucky) that it's a good starting point in the franchise, let alone something that remotely holds up on its own.

>>281117995
Should have started with Prisma Illya.

>>281113775 (OP)
Still a good show. It's the fate ip that has lost influence. The ones who mainly hate it are insecure Saberfags who cannot get over the series that shit on nearly every character also shit on their waifu.

>>281115817
I mean, that's how it is NOWadays.

>>281117794
Really cool early on, but I lost track as the cast expanded further with later premise developments. I hear it's started shrinking as setups have started paying off and eliminating them, so I should catch up again sometime. Didn't expect the anime to be crawling at one ep per year.

>>281113775 (OP)
Your first Fate/Zero watch is you watching these adult edgy men being cool and badass and thinking you're watching a mature anime.
Your second Fate/Zero watch is you realizing most of the cast is made of manchildren who got screwed by their own idiotic decissions.

>>281114166
Factual statement.

>>281114166
truth nuke

>>281113775 (OP)
Too many weird fucking scenes, like the dudes holding wine glasses and walking in a circle. Or sitting on a couch together being gay. Or the Indian drum circle.

>>281114166
>>281113775 (OP)
It's simple:

fate and ubw are fake routes made only for introduction and to deceive the readers.

Zero and Heaven's Feel make the canon and solve the story properly from beginning to end.

>>281113775 (OP)
Fate was always shit but Zero was the least shit

>>281113775 (OP)
Contrarians. It was always universally viewed as a masterpiece and still is to this day.

>>281114297
Compare part 1 and Fate Zero.
Zero believing itself deeper than it really is, I wouldn't say they are that different in the amount of serious adult topics they touch upon.
So you either consider the both seinen or shonen. I wouldn't say one is meow mature than the other at all

>>281113775 (OP)
It's fine as a prequel. As a stand alone story it isn't very good

I liked Fate Zero, especially the first part. Are you trying to tell me that the other fates are better?
I hope so, i will trust in you anons and get deeper into fate series.

The barrier to entry for taking F/Nap as a masterpiece is reading Fate Stays the Night.
By itself it doesn't work.
Also Ufotable sucks so there's that.

>>281124185
While most would suggest reading/watching Zero after Stay Night, it's not too big of an issue if it's your first, barring some spoilers and a few character inconsistencies.
SN, Zero and Hollow Ataraxia make up Fate's "core trilogy".
I suggest you go through FSN in VN form, since it's got great presentation and doesn't suffer from issues like QUALITY, lack of monologues and a truncated story like the adaptations do. The Ultimate Edition(s) Beast's Lair provides for both FSN and FHA are the way to go thanks to their customizability (and the option to view the KINO H-scenes). FSN is 60 hours long (split into 3 routes) while FHA is 50 hours long w/ optional side content like minigames and art galleries. Have fun

>>281125658
And yeah, SN and HA are better than Zero. They've got more fluff, and some parts feel a bit disjointed in terms of pacing, but Nasu's ever-hopeful kind of chuuni writing is a better fit for the story than Urobutcher's despairing side. Whether or not you think they're "kiddy shit" or make Zero's prose look pitiful by comparison is up to you though.

>>281125658
>I suggest you go through FSN in VN form
I will try it. I don't care much about quality, I loved fate zero because almost all characters were endearing for me, even Caster had his charm for me. Saber and Lancer(I'd wish to see more MCs like him) are my favorites. I like urobuchi as a writer and his characters, so maybe that was the reason i liked Fate Zero and could end up not liking FSN, but to be sure of that, i need to read FSN.

>>281126118
>almost all characters were endearing for me
Oh man, you're gonna get that in both SN and possibly moreso in HA. Don't wanna spoil too many things, but Lancer and Uryuu/Gille have their counterparts in the 5th Grail War (directly or indirectly), and they're even more damning there. You could see it as if Urobuchi took the existing cast and remixed it for Zero's, creating new characters out of the archetypes that already existed in Stay Night.
You're going to hate characters you didn't know you could hate and love ones you never even thought of loving, as cliche as that sounds. They're all well-written to some degree, regardless of their morals. I know I've got my favorites that I keep raving about

>>281113775 (OP)
Only very young kids liked it.

>>281126118
Nasu buries his talent for prose under literal tons of complete garbage, he does it on purpose to highlight certain passages of his novels where the garbage falls by the wayside and the transition in style is meant to clue the reader into what's taking place at an emotional level. That is you feel shit get real because it does, right down to how it's written. But the investment it demands from the reader is wading through insanely redundant "fluff" as that other anon calls it but he left out the part where there's just a lot of really dry writing. Dry like dumps of exposition. Dry like spending pages worth of your life in a mellow aside or impassive soliloquy. If your eyes are starting to glaze putting up with my verbosity in a single paragraph good look with FSN.

Urobutcher for all his faults is a man of brevity with a talent for economy of storytelling.

When FSN is adapted to anime it has to be cut to ribbons to fit the time allotted. When Fate/Zero was adapted to anime they had to blow it up and drag it out to two cours. The difference between the two is less in how they're written at a high level, but more in how they're written at a low level. They're almost antipolar styles.

>>281126349
Gilles de Rais was very funny for me and made me curious about what kind of character is Jeanne d'Arc .
I think is impossible for me to hate the Saber of Fate Zero, hopefully she is not that different in other VN.
Thanks for the suggestion.
>>281126699
>Urobutcher for all his faults is a man of brevity with a talent for economy of storytelling.
One of the favorites things i like about him, i still i like Saber of Fate Zero enough to know more about her in other VN and go through the dry writing.

>>281126699
Fate/Zero's finale was incredibly rushed, with lots of important scenes like the majority of Saber vs Berserker and the reason why Kirei and Gilgamesh survived the grail mud getting skipped, and they had to make BD-only director's cuts of several episodes of the first cour to fit in everything there (although they would have had a much easier time if not for that one filler that turned a throwaway Kariya and Aoi scene into an entire Rinwank episode). Meanwhile, the 06 anime was able to fit in entire subplots from UBW, and the UBW anime extended several fights and added an anime-original epilogue.

>>281126950
>made me curious about what kind of character is Jeanne d'Arc
you can watch/read Fate/Apocrypha for that once you're done with the trilogy. It's dumb but a very fun ride
>I think is impossible for me to hate the Saber of Fate Zero
Stay Night begins with her as the heroine of the first route. I don't want to call it a beautiful story per se, but it's engrossing. Keep your heart in check for when you finish the 3 routes and get a little something special in return.

>>281113775 (OP)
Anons wanted to see Rider's dick. Yet the anime decided to censor it.

>>281113775 (OP)
They milked the absolute shit out of it.

>>281114200
Kayneth my beloved.

>>281113775 (OP)
English please.

>>281113921
>space brothers
my god i totally forgot about that
that shit did not leave a lasting impression goddamn

>>281117794
>still no SF anime
1 episode per year LMAO.
This is such production hell.

>>281113775 (OP)
It’s not bad, but people especially Fate fans got tired of hearing everyone rave about it, so the consensus kind of swung the other way.

>>281113775 (OP)
>masterpiece of the medium
Nu uh. The real masterpiece is the high school shonen harem where a genderbent king Arthur and Medusa falls in love with a Japanese teenager for whatever reason

>>281113775 (OP)
Contrarianism and also modern audiences are too deep into the multiple layers of irony that anything sincere or "chuuni" like Fate/Zero will make them recoil like snakes.

>>281113775 (OP)
Honestly, this was the singularity of modern anime.
Without Fate/Zero, Ufotable's KnY adaptation would’ve never existed.
And without Ufotable's KnY, the entire post-2021 big-budget anime boom wouldn't have happened either.

>>281113775 (OP)
>>281114200
>>281131455
that's Garden of Sinners, you fucking ignoramus