Thread 281294285

Kenshin's pacifism is not as bad as Thorfinn's but overall, Saitou's worldview is the most realistic. This is one of the things that makes RK such a great work. the MC's view is challenged in a meaningful way. Its counterpoint doesn’t get reduced to a caricature or pure sociopathy.

>>281294285 (OP)
Trigun

>>281294285 (OP)
boku no pico

Arpeggio of Blue Steel

Cause you don't want to encourage war with a bunch of hyperactive and easily bored AI warship with vague job description.

Arpeggio of Blue Steel

Cause you don't want to encourage war with a bunch of hyperactive and easily bored AI warship with vague job description.

>>281294285 (OP)
I. HAVE. NO. ENEMIES.

*Introduces european diseases to native americans*

We can always talk about things and reach an understanding.

>>281294285 (OP)
Isn't pacifism always "right" if seen from the perspective of humanism?

Anyway I get your point and I do agree that "fighting but not killing" protag is more exciting to actually watch but to me it felt that from the view of the theme itself Thorfinn's interpretation makes more of a sense? Like if you turn pacifist then you definitely should by most means try to uphold your ideal in its entirety by not actually fighting. Kenshin usually doesn't even hesitate that much and just outright beats people up just doesn't kill them while Thorfinn actually struggles with the fact that he has to succumb to violence again (even if non-lethal) because he feels that means he's betraying his ideal.

>>281294955
He didn't do it knowingly or with any hostile intent.
So it's ok.
In fact, he's making sure some of them survive before more peoples come at once.

>>281294308
Vaush had no response to a guy asking him if he would kill a rapist raping a girl right in front of him

>>281295202
Listen to this guy, violence is not a solution!

>>281295339
Well, rape isn't strictly equivalent to murder. Gotta take the time to create a government with a justice system.

>>281294285 (OP)
Turn A Gundam
Gundam 00

>>281295014
The whole point of pacifism is to convert the enemy to your side. This is how it is properly done with all shounen and this is why it becomes really interesting. The current western "pacifism" that is reduced to taking a beating for the sake of it is just a self-depreciating ego trip.

>>281295014
>Isn't pacifism always "right" if seen from the perspective of humanism?
I guess you are right. Considering that I find the ideology impractical, my view of it will always be negative. I was trying to find the best example of it, like the best "steelmanning"
>>281294308
I need to read Trigun again. I can't barely remember any of it.
>>281294935
>>281296413
I will check these later.

>>281294285 (OP)
vinland saga

>>281294285 (OP)
Kenshin isn't really a pacifist, he just doesn't want to kill people anymore. He's still willing to break their bones by clubbing them repeatedly with an iron rod.

>>281295014
>Isn't pacifism always "right" if seen from the perspective of humanism?
I don't think so. If someone is going around killing people, you put other people's lives in danger if you don't forcefully stop him.

>>281297223
Likewise, imagine someone gets killed. Doesn't that person deserve justice? Forgiveness might be better for the victims family and friends, and perhaps it's practical to stop the cycle of violence or whatever. But what about the deceased? Is it right to just forget about them for the sake of other people? What about their feelings, their hopes and aspirations cut off too early?

It's why I really liked the whole Kaname and Komamura thing in bleach. The way that whole debate was brought out was really mature for a shounen, and it wasn't even a theme of the manga but just for the characters involved.

>>281294285 (OP)
There's a difference between pacifism and willingness to use overwhelming-but-somehow-nonlethal violence. Kenshin notes after Shishio's death that if he HAD defeated Shishio, it would have only proven Shishio correct: that might makes right and only the strongest may rule in the method they see most fit.
Trigun's Vash is genuinely a pacifist, since he never aims for the weapon's holder: he uses violence against the weapon itself. He's also nearly invulnerable, and no human would be able to walk his path for very long because they'd surely die a painful, awful death.

Gundam Wing is all about the conflict of attaining peace through war, and Gundam 00 explores the idea as well, but Wing more or less seems to admit that true world peace is a pipe dream and that the endless cycle of violence in the name of peace will never stop.

>>281295014
"Rightness" is purely subjective. It only applies in a group of life-minded individuals. When you have two groups of people, and the groups hold equal-but-opposing ideologies, then peace is never going to hold for long. One side must die so the other can reign supreme.

>>281297893
*like-minded, not life-minded
Even death-minded people have their own sense of "rightness."

>>281294285 (OP)
the series is only good before kenshin took it upon himself to practice pacifism

>>281294285 (OP)
Shinza Bansho

Kinda pointless to discuss a worldview that only works in fiction.

>>281294285 (OP)
Gundam IBO, you see the consequences of people not following it.

That said, there was nothing wrong with Thorfinn's pacifism. You just hate the idea of helping minorities out.

>>281294308
Vash is a huge faggot for not shooting some people and instead crying like a bitch

>>281294285 (OP)
>I have no ememies
Try living with venezuelans for a month, at least Kenshin would scare them out after the first grenade, yes, Kenshin is much better.

>>281295202
Always loved this. Its not that he doesn't kill but seeing his life was at an end saw no reason to take someone else with him.

>>281294285 (OP)
Muramasa

>>281294285 (OP)
It depends, are you yet anotger murrican brainwashed by the military industrial complex? If so, no.
Otherwise yes.

>>281294308
Trigun easily has the most reasonable approach to it. Its treated as a beautiful ideal to strive for, but also as a luxury only afforded to literal superhumans like Vash.

>>281294285 (OP)
>I don't like pacifism
>What are good pacifist anime? Guess none? Cuz pacifism sucks. Hah, gotcha!
>...

>>281300791
I also get the sense that Vash tries to resist violence because he's afraid of a real possibility that he could become like Knives. If artificially created superhumans are prone to black-and-white thinking, then you're better off with one who forswears killing entirely than dealing with them once they go off the deep end.

>>281294308
Vash is a pacifist until he finds out someone is gay. Then it's fine to kill them

>>281301379
>Vash tries to resist violence because he's afraid of a real possibility that he could become like Knives.
I don't think Vash thinks of it in those terms, but you're not wrong about thinking in absolutes. Vash thinks killing one person (intentionally) would make him as bad as a mass murderer. Killing once is the same as killing forever in his mind.