Thread 281597675

Now that Sasuke retrieval has been covered, was Sasuke's corruption and turn to villainy well done or did it really ruin the story?

>>281597675 (OP)
If Kishi wanted an antagonist role for Sasuke at least commit. He can still be redeemed later, but he really didn't do anything heinous on his "darkness" arc. I guess it would be hard for Kishi to write Naruto wanting to bring him back if Sasuke became a genuine terrorist. He never had a chance to invade Konoha, which is a shame.

>>281597675 (OP)
I'd say Sasuke turning into a psycho edgelord made the story worse, but it's not even Sasuke's fault. It's moreso how the other characters (mainly Naruto and Sakura) continue to treat him.

Post the order of who was more justified in their obsession with the other character
Naruto with Sasuke
Sakura with Sasuke
Hashirama with Madara
Hiruzen with Orochimaru
Jiraya with Orochimaru
Obito with Rin
Kawaki with Naruto

>>281597829
>but he really didn't do anything heinous on his "darkness" arc
>attempts to murder Naruto
>attempts to murder Naruto, Sakura, Sai and Yamato
>kidnaps a jinchuriki from another village in order to kill him
>murders a bunch of samurais
>attempts to murder Sakura twice
>laughs like a psychopath while talking about how he plans to destroy Konoha

>>281597675 (OP)
He by himself works, at least for now, where you can see the conflict, but it would have been needed some more filler to better cement their friendship, not sideline him for most of the pre-timeskip, and obviously Naruto has far too little conflict on his betrayal for it to be truly emotional.

>>281597912
Literally a puddle compared to what shitbags like Gaara did

>>281597895
Too lazy to bother with spoilers
Worst to best
>Naruto with Sasuke
>Sakura with.Sasuke
>Obito with Rin
>Jiraiya with Orochimaru
>Hashirama with Madara
>Hiruzen with Orochimaru
idc about Boruto
Jiraiya and Oro would be lower but at least Jiraiya figured he's a lost cause eventually.

>>281597912
>attempts to murder Naruto (fails)
>attempts to murder Naruto, Sakura, Sai and Yamato (fails)
>attempts to murder Sakura twice (fails)
>kidnaps a jinchuriki from another village in order to kill him (fails)
>murders a bunch of samurais (literal whos)
>laughs like a psychopath while talking about how he plans to destroy Konoha (who cares)
Sasuke is a fucking loser holy shit, his brother genocided a clan when he was 13 and went undefeated his entire life, this fucker has literally never managed to do anything he set his mind to

>>281597912
That's a lot of attempts. Not really crossing any lines here.

>>281598045
It's the fucking intent that matters.

>>281597829
>>281597996
>>281598028
Him leaving his Taka friends behind was some real scummy shit. Oh, and running Karin through to kill already wounded elderly dude and then ordering Sakura to finish her.

>>281597895
>Hashirama with Madara
clash of ideals and autism on both parts
>Hiruzen with Orochimaru
his failure and responsability
>Jiraya with Orochimaru
a lesser version of above
>Naruto with Sasuke
A friendship we never saw blossoming, then beaten wife syndrome
>Obito with Rin
a teen crush
>Sakura with Sasuke
a teen crush, even more retarded
who cares about boruto

>>281598123
He never manages to kill a named character and fails at producing any kind of long-lasting and impactful damage to anything

>>281597912
>Always "if" and "would've" but never "is" or "did"

>>281598152
Going by this logic a school shooter should be left off the hook if he tried to kill a bunch of students and teachers but only managed to shoot them in non-vital areas that eventually healed afterwards.

>>281597912
>>281598155
>potential villain
kek

>>281597829
Yeah he is a deuoteragonist I probably misspelled that, he had moments of downright villainy. I love Sasuke, I actually can't really picture the series without him splitting off.
The conflicts really are Orochimaru Power Plays and Temptations for Sasuke, Naruto vaguely just wanting to be a competent ninja and grow stronger to he Hokage, Konoha and the other nations have their eye on the Akatuski. I kinda get why Sasuke needed to "split off" it gave Kishi the opportunity to show more of the world, and the rivalry between the two and the parallel growth was genre defining even tho as we read in part 1 some of it feels off screen haha

>>281598155
Do you seriously not realize how retarded you sound?
>>>281598204

>>281598103
It's easy to forgive him when he really hasn't hurt anyone.
That's my problem here.

>>281598204
I'm not arguing that he wasn't a terrorist or a criminal enemy of Konoha, I'm arguing that he was a fucking loser who never did anything of relevance after trying for years and selling his body and souls to a bunch of crazy fucks, while we have an unlimited list of people in Naruto who actually did things.

>>281598244
This is a fictional story and not real life.

>>281598028
>this fucker has literally never managed to do anything he set his mind to
>sacrifices literally everything to beat Itachi
>still fails. only dies from ninja aids after letting lil bro win
>meanwhile
>Naruto does nothing for 3 years
>trains for a couple weeks
>catches up
Lmao

How would Naruto and Sakura feel about Sasuke if he killed someone from Konoha 11? Or Kakashi. Would he be forgiven if he regret his decisions?

>>281598439
Remember that Naruto basically went full retard during the first Valley of the End fight to let Sasuke win
Has Sasuke ever done something good other than cumming in Sakura and making that little slut of Sarada?

>>281598435
This is such a retarded argument. It's still a story with human characters that have human morals and intelligence.

>>281597829
kek he failed at being a villain
>I'm going to kill... Orochimaru!
>Next... Danzo!!!
>I'm going to capture the 8 tails... and fail!
>I'm going to kill the 5 kages... and fail at that too!

>>281598392
>>281598439
>>281598504
He actually helped the Hidden Leaf, sorta. Killing off Deidara and Danzo was a net positive for Konoha.

>>281598464
He foregave the coolest guy, he obviously would forgive Sasuke too, Sakura wouldn't care about anyone beside Sasuke, as long neither Ino nor Naruto dies, Kakashi probably would be the most opposed.

>>281598539
>Meanwhile

>>281598504
Helping defeat Zabuza and Kaguya and started his self imposed exile where he tries to atone.
I can't think of anything else he did I would call good.

>>281598464
I'd take Sasuke killing his second mentor over Obito/Kakashi plotline in a heartbeat.

>>281598464
I think Sasuke should have cemented his villainy by murking Sakura and finally bringing Naruto to realize his naivety. At least then, Sakura would have had a more gripping role to the plot. I would be more willing to believe in Naruto's morals if he had actually managed to change the ninja world from its old ways, but I don't think he even managed that by Boruto unless I'm mistaken.

>>281597835
Naruto's obsession with Sasuke would honestly not be so bad if Sasuke was still shown to have some good inside him after the Retrieval arc, but there is genuinely no redeeming quality about him at all from the end of part 1 up until the end of part 2.
>spares Naruto in this arc not because he is/was his friend, but because he doesn't want to do what Itachi instructed him to do
>was about to kill both Naruto and Sakura in the Bridge arc before Orochimaru stopped him
>proceeds to never give a single shit or think about Naruto or Sakura whatsoever up until the war arc, where he randomly tells Hagoromo that Naruto's his friend
>the bond between him and Naruto is so forced and retarded that they had to be turned into the reincarnations of 2 alien brothers to make their "connection" feel less forced
>Then at the end of his 2nd fight with Naruto he starts talking in his inner monologue about how jealous he was of Naruto and how he always thought about him, even though this was never shown
It is really hard to sympathize with Naruto caring so much about Sasuke when he's clearly a lost cause.

>>281598464
Sasuke could have killed Naruto and Sakura and they still would have forgave him in the afterlife.

>>281598539
In real life we don't care if a criminal is relevant to the narrative of the world or if his actual make any lasting impact on Society for the sake of stakes.

>>281598392
Fair enough.

>>281598751
>Naruto & Sakura are so retarded they let themselves be killed by Sasuke
>Hagoromo welcomes them, saying some shit about how the cycle of hatred has yet to be broken and the brothers still hate each other
>Naruto starts sperging out
>Don't say I hate Sasuke! He was the coolest guy!

Can't ruin whats already shit.

>>281597895
Hiruzen with Orochimaru since he seemed to have soft spot for him and acted like a father figure to him.

Kawaki with Naruto because he's really just a kid with severe daddy issues and Naruto filled the void.

>>281597895
No Hinata with Naruto?

>>281598859
I didn't put Hinata because she's pretty sane in her obsession, she likes Naruto to an extreme degree while having a small relationship with him, but neither of them ever went evil or similar things.
That would mean giving something to Hinata.

Kishi dropped the ball, when he didn't make him the final antagonist of Naruto.

>>281598947
That's clearly Hinata with snake contacts and make up.

>>281599034
It's clearly Orochimaru inside Hinata's body with the Rennigan which is a combination of Byakugan and Sharingan.

>>281599083
Would it be kino to, as Kishi wanted to kill him, make Neji sacrifice himself to exorcize Oro from Hinata, so team 7 can kill him?

>>281598947
>Orochimaru takes over Nagato's body and gets his rinnegan.
>Starts the 4th war
>They reanimate Hiruzen with Edo tensei
>Hiruzen (EL PRIMO FORMA) vs Orochimaru II

>>281597675 (OP)
The story beat is good in isolation but falls completely flat because kishimoto can't write character relationships to save his life and naruto's hyperfixation on bringing sasuke back is tremendously fucking retarded.

>>281599256
Also, given that saucegay is a proper defector, he should be konoha's priority one for assassination before he puts his eyehax to the service of a rival nation or organization.
In fact, tsunade should have given shikamaru a contingency order to kill his ass if he couldn't be convinced to return the easy way

>>281599406
Tsunade knows that they can't let Naruto have an autism explosion and do something exceedingly retarded if they kill Sasuke

>>281599406
>Tsunade
>doing anything

>>281599436
I don't think Neji knew Naruto could regrow an organ (nobody spreads info in this manga).
Also, Kishi heavily nerfed his regen in that arc, needing hinata to fix his shoulder lmao.

>>281597675 (OP)
it was kinda pointless all things considered. Also it's kind of a shame sasuke just dropped his orochi powers they were pretty cool

>>281599534
>Also, Kishi heavily nerfed his regen in that arc, needing hinata to fix his shoulder lmao.
It was sweet although it did raise the question of why the fuck Hinata never dabbled in medical jutsus.

>>281599823
Clashes with Sakura, Tsunade and Shizune, this is also why Ino never uses healing after Asuma dies.

>>281599823
>>281599534
Anyway, what i was getting at is that Neji should've comforted Hinata at least for a bit.

>>281598765
Uhh, Operation Paperclip? Those nazi scientists were too relevant for the Cold War arc to just be executed with the rest of NPCs.

Why doesn't he just fix everything? He's a Pain tier fighter, strong enough to make Itachi and Kisame run away. Surely he could help solve like 2 or 3 arcs in the series instead of perving on women

>>281599823
It would distract from the useless fucking taijutsu training please understand.

>>281600035
His ribs were broken.

How does Jiraiya know that Orochimaru transferred?

How does Jiraiya know it takes exactly three years?

Why does Jiraiya think Naruto should train instead of going himself, Tsunade, Guy and other great jonin after Sasuke to handle the pressing issue of Orochimaru?

>>281600096
DAN IS A BITCH ASS MOTHERFUCKER!
HE FUCKED MY CRUSH TSUNADE!!!!

Not gonna lie, Naruto gives me more faith in my writing abilities due to telling me that general audiences care more about broad vibes and don't really notice the various narrative and worldbuilding holes

>>281600159
Konoha is clearly a business. Not a service. The chunin exams made that evident.

>>281598813
You will never be a janny.

>>281600224
This only works for official stand-alone works and not on fanfiction though.

>>281600159
The only possible person who would know so much about Orochimaru's immortality and the consequences of it can only be Kabuto, right? Though is supposed betrayal was put back to rest fully in the Tsunade arc, so how the fuck did he get this info?

>>281600224
Pretty much, yes. Kishimoto doesn't just have worldbuilding flaws/plotholes but ALSO pacing issues (look at how short these fights were) but even then he was a worldly success because of how iconic these designs were, how engaging this premise was (especially to kids) and the kinda unique visuals/universe he managed to project to the reader, even without fleshing it out, just projection was enough

>>281600159
Connections
Connections
Busy with jounin missions/paperwork/research please understand

Jiraiya being realistic and pragmatic despite acting like a fool does a lot for his character imo

>>281600302
He got it from Orochimaru himself. Neither of them really care about the village and Jiraya sure as shit doesn't care about Sasuke. He only asked Oro so he could convince Nardo to drop it

How dumb is HxH compared to Naruto worldbuilding wise? I assume less but still full of stupidity

>>281600096
>Naruto about to get unironically wimp lo'd for 3 years
So jiraiya can only train natural prodigies or is naruto that much of a fucking retard?

>>281600443
Official explanation: muh basics

Real explanation: Kishimoto didn't feel like having huge power creep right off the start, then changed his mind and needed Naruto to rubberband.

>>281600443
Motherfucker didn't even learn about element chakras during that time.

>>281600224
>the various narrative and worldbuilding holes
For me, I think the most ridiculous one to me was Guy teaching Lee and explicitly forbidden jutsu, then Lee uses said forbidden jutsu in front of a bunch of Jonin and the HOKAGE, fucks himself up, and nobody really seems to care about this in-universe

>>281597675 (OP)
it didn't completely ruin the series, but it probably made it worse. It makes Naruto and Sakura all around worse characters, though Naruto is mostly fine outside of his Sasuke obsession. It also necessitates spending a certain amount of time chasing him which frankly could have been used on much more interesting things in that world. Teenage team 7 feels like a giant missed opportunity. You'd have to rework the villains and plot but that's not necessarily a bad thing

Who would be weaker:
Part 2 Naruto trained by Kurenai, Shizune or the one in canon?

>>281600508
Listen, if anybody cared about forbidden jutsus Naruto would've been disqualified from the chunnin exams during his fight with Kiba.

>>281600508
Forbidden jutsu are like that because they can kill you or kill someone who isn't an enemy, not because they are actually forbiden.

>>281600443
>is naruto that much of a fucking retard?
He actually learns things relatively fast in part 2. I think Jiraya is just a hack of a sensei.

Sasuke flipflops morality in ways that don't ever seem to make sense

>Heheheh... I'm going to kill you Naruto :) :) :) I just pierced your lungs :) You're fucking dead :)
>Wow.... I understand... we're similar... you're strong, you know pain, I have to sever our connection........... (don't feel too good about killing you but I will)
>I'm conflicted but I'll spare you because fuck Itachi
>BEGIN PART 2
>Heh.... I didn't kill you on a whim :) But now I will :)
>Taka arc starts
>Actually I'm super chill, hanging around Taka, thinking of them like team 7, I'm smiling when I see the great Naruto bridge, generally just a decent, stoic guy

>>281600601
He trained nagato and minato though. Maybe he felt he'd done enough and just phoned it in for naruto

>>281600586
They are actually forbidden, though. They aren't allowed to be taught or used. That's the fanon explanation because the actual explanation doesn't make any sense with how many people have and use them.

>>281600508
>a child using a forbidden jutsu
>one that's know for killing the user
Hiruzen must have been DIAMONDS

>>281600513
>Demon
Oh look, Narutoverse has it's own Ashai.

>>281600645
I'd gonna opt for Nagato and Minato learning in spite of Jiraya being their sensei

>>281600307
>because of how iconic these designs were
yeah, for all of Naruto's faults I struggle to think of a single bad design, like a character that I genuinely don't like looking at

>>281600513
>Pain's village, the literal home coutry for Akatsuki, is literally next to Konoha
>Jiraiya or anybody ever goes to check what is going on there in 20 years

>>281600224
Sadly now people are more cynic and tend to judge more harshly these things, luckily this is irrelevant, as they still watch/read the same trash, they just grumble more.

>>281600730
Nah, he also taught Konan well. Yahiko too presumably. All signs point to Naruto being shit.

Of course this is also because of another retcon, early part 2 hinted that Sasuke took body destroying roids to get so strong but it gets forgotten fast

>>281600767
there's a reason for that...

>>281600652
And yet, if they ARE taught or learned nothing happens.

>>281600767
That's like going to Detroit. Nobody wants to go to the gutter village.

>>281600439
Kinda, it still has some stupidity and hindsight issues, but at least you can see the author actually cares about the worldbuilding.
Kishimoto has the weird thing were he puts much more effort into the worldbuilding than many other shonens, but it's still clear as day he doesn't truly care about it and therefore will still make it nonsensical/contradictory at any occasion.

>>281600601
I guess it takes having the fucking rinnegan or being the smartest ninja ever for a student to succeed with Jiraiya as their master

>>281600730
That's probably what happened.

>>281600804
How strong was peak Hanzo? He beat the Sannins but they were much younger and no signs of sage mode or something. I doubt he could take Pain.

>>281600837
>>281600853
Konan is Kage tier though. And she's a dirty f*male

>>281600645
>nagato
Nagato had enough time without him to actually learn something, and anyway he banked a lot on his rinnegan, Minato was enough free-spirited to improvise despite a useless teacher, clearly.

>>281600887
>And she's a dirty f*male
>He doesn't know

>>281600870
By all accounts he was supposed to be, like, a tier or two below Madara at worst. He was one of THE guys of the old gen and the fact he lost at all, especially to a no-name at the time like Pain made everyone wary of Rain.

>>281600870
>I doubt he could take Pain.
Anon, he's canonically killed by Pain

>>281600951
That was after he got soft, but I'm thinking he would have put up a better fight at his peak. Still a loss though?

>>281600887
...because of her hidden jutsu which she had before even being taken under Jiraiya's wing?

>>281600887
Konan honestly, beside a specific move, doesn't seem particularly strong by the Akatsuki's standard.

>>281600991
She didn't use any jutsu before being taken by Jiraiya, they weren't even ninja back then, just kids. Now whether or not this was some hereditary jutsu or not is another question and probably something Kishimoto didn't even consider, but you can't handwave this away.

>>281600993
Not top tier but not bottom of the barrel either. Certainly above Hidan.

>>281600945
nobody knew Pain won. The outside world thought they were still in civil war. Assuming internal consistency it hadn't even been decided by the end of the part 1 chunin exams

>>281601026
Anon, you cannot be suggesting that Konan's paper jutsu was taught by Jiraiya with a straight face.

>>281601048
Taught? Maybe not, but nurtured? Clearly. Hell, he even has something that looks like it.

>>281601093
He doesn't actually turn into paper.

>>281601093
Oh look, shadow clone acting like something made of shadow.

Here's a genuine question.
How is Konan's paper gimmick not kekkei genkai?

>>281601129
It doesn't but that's besides the point. Maybe Konan's stuff is kekkai genkai, maybe it's not (probably just Kishimoto's way to write powers, give arbitrary powers to X character depending on their traits without considering how those powers interact with the rest of the power system). Either way it's still training and nurturing skills under one teacher, Naruto had some mad skills but didn't achieve shit in comparison.

>>281601179
Or an offshoot of Tree Style.

>>281601179
is it combining multiple elements?

>>281601179
Kishi felt like it.
I still hate how combining elements is a kekkei genkai. That should just be skill

>>281601179
who fucking knows?
suigetsu's thing is a clan jutsu

>>281601207
RETARDruto...

>>281601185
>Maybe Konan's stuff is kekkai genkai, maybe it's not
Is it never explained?

>>281601275
No, and honestly I'm not going to blame Kishimoto for not going TOO hard on his power system in this instance. He has some issues but that kind of shonen doesn't really need explanations for everything.

>>281601185
Nta but that's like saying that as Naruto has sage mode, or the rasenshuriken, Jiraya nurtured him, when we know his biggest support was making him know the toads.

How the fuck do people even GET kekkei genkai's in the first place? It makes sense with the Byukugan and Sharingan since those are moon alien bullshit, but how does someone just mutate to the point where they can attach themselves to someone else as a parasite and destroy them on a cellular level? Or take refuge in someone's body in the first place?

>>281601319
If Naruto learned that under Jiraiya then yes. Konan was already quite strong after Jiraiya left and didn't have other teachers

>>281600224
I've learn that writing and other forms of art are less about how technical proficient you are and more about how your work makes others feel. People tend to comprehend information more with their emotions than logical and reasoning. It's why a lot of taboo subjects are automatically viewed in bad faith because the emotional response attached to that subject is also negative.

>>281601226
Funny thing is that multiple fanfics make it kekkei genkai, probably because True potential did it iirc.

>>281601455
True Potential has so much stupid shit in it.
>>281601341
Genetic mutation

>>281601341
Honestly I can just buy the idea that mystical energy combined with typical genetic anomalies results in freak weirdos, it's just funny how some of them are really basic while others are obscenely retardedly powerful for no real reason

>>281601446
Same with communication in general. It's why charismatic or confident people can get away with so much.

It's interesting to note that Kishimoto completely forgot to include Juugo and Sakon's kekkei genkai when designing Kaguya's kit.

>>281601341
Sakon and Ukon's kekkei genkai kinda reminded me of Zetsu.

>>281601600
>Juugo and Sakon
Literal whos

>>281601476
True potential is ok for what it is but it's Unfortunately responsible for popularizing some of the worst tropes in Naruto fanfiction.
>Uzumaki Tayuya (every red head is an uzumaki until proven otherwise)
>Water Affinity Hinata making her suck
>Shikamaru, Naruto and Hinata team
>Anko being a top tier mentor

>>281601690
So were the hyuugas and Kaguya clan by that point but Kishi included those anyway.

>>281601660
The only Zetsu like feature it got was in the war desu.

>>281601701
Haven't read enough naruto fanfiction to know wht you're talking about but all of those seem like improvements to the manga, especially the shikamaru/naruto/hinata team

>>281601701
Those existed in fics before True Potential existed except for the Naruto, Hinata, Shikamaru team combo.

>>281601811
Shikamaru is dogshit and Kishimoto would ruin Hinata with more screen time.

>>281601701
>Water Affinity Hinata
why though
>Anko being a top tier mentor
i think only shillfic has showed how dysfunctional of a teacher she would really be

>>281601881
Key word on popularized, it obviously existed, but the usage of them were clearly buffed by true potential's popularity.

>>281601916
>why though
It's mostly lazy and easy copout to explain Hinata being weak while also excusing the gigantic growth the author intends to give her later on in comparison to canon, now she gets to learn a fancier and delicate version of Gentle fist that she's actually good at using (just ignore that gentle fist is already supposed to be fancy and delicate).

>>281601916
I think there is a misconception of Hinata having water element due to SP filler, when she's supposed to have fire and lightning element in canon.

>>281601701
>(every red head is an uzumaki until proven otherwise)
Sasori Uzumaki...

>>281602067
Hey now, being in the databook doesn't really mean it's canon although it holds more water(heh) than filler.

>>281602089
Uzumaki Jirobo
Uzumaki Choza and Uzumaki Choji
Uzumaki Karui
Uzumaki >Code<

>>281602067
that wasn't even hinata using waterstyle
she was just using droplets on a lake combined with her tenketsu emissions to water jet a bunch of bugs

>>281602146
>Jirobo vs Choji was a case of Uzumaki on Uzumaki violence

My favorite Uzumakis...Gaara and Rasa.

>>281602146
You're are forgetting Gaara Uzumaki.

>>281601811
Shikamaru on the main team would've been far more wanked than Sasuke ever was.

>>281602296
>>281601811
Could Shikamaru figure out Haku's ice circle?

>>281602146
You're forgetting Gaara Uzumaki.

>>281602353
Shikamaru would probably bullshit a big shadow circle just so no matter what direction Haku attacked him he'd get caught.

>>281597675 (OP)
kill yourself narutard

My favourite panel of the arc was Tayuya acting like she's fourteen (which she was) and brandishing her favorite toy with a smug grin on her face while bragging about how cool it is and how she carries nothing else. Genuinely funny and cute.

Haku would fall for Shikamaru like all women.

sex

One of the funniest things about pre-War Arc Naruto in the context of the series as a whole is how many times you have to ask yourself
>why isn't Guy here?
>What could X do against Guy though
>how does Guy just not solve the problem instantly

How would sound genjutsu work is your opponent is deaf? How would visual genjutsu work is your opponent is blind?

>>281602567
>only female capable of getting a win against temari is the one who has a dick

>>281602712
Nobody got a win over Temari though?

>>281602695
They wouldn't.

>>281602686
Pretty funny how when Minato died, Guy automatically became the strongest ninja in the village. Not Hiruzen, the Sannin, Danzo, Kakashi or even Wicked Eye Fugaku

>>281602686
Much like Lee, Guy's power is inconsistent, sometimes he's the being with the highest stats, and sometimes he's unable to catch an armless Deidara with HELP.

>>281602686
Not even SHITatchi wanted a piece of Guy. Ran at the mere sight

>>281602900
>when Minato died
What the hell are you talking about? He's still the strongest ninja. Minato got wrecked by Madara.

>>281602961
>Guy appears
KISAME WE'RE LEAVING RIGHT THE FUCK NOW!!!

>>281602900
it's hard to rank guy because he wasn't that impressive, as in akatski level, without going 6 gates which is supposed to be a huge drawback. The series just handwaved it away though

>>281601446
Are you guys genuinely this autistic or has decades of internet style literary critique rotted your brains?

>>281597912
I am an old fag and say Sasuke just doesn't have the power to prove he can slaughter the village. The manga cannot sell the idea he can destroy civilization with chakra Gundam. Even Pein admits he needs to invent a technique to blow them off

>>281600159
Orochimaru is a sperg who tells his friends everything and has Kabuto translate. I like to think some wagie from the sound tells them everything while Orochimaru is medicated

>>281603033
I mean even without gates Guy's kick alone was enough to send Kisame flying, thr guy who had just made Asuma look like a joke.

>>281603079
>Kisame, we're leaving
>I don't want this bowl-cut freak jerking off to my toes.

>>281603366
it takes more than just raw striking power to win a ninja battle. He was getting smacked by 30% Kisame clone until he opened the gates

>>281603366
That's hindsight talking. In truth just one surprise kick pushing the other guy back could literally mean anything.

>>281603483
Isn't that entire fight basically anime-only? Also that's wrong because Guy intentionally uses nothing but raw striking power in battle. He personally promised to not use ninjutsu or genjutsu.

Whose art did you like/agree with the most? Sai? Konan? Sasori? Deidara? Tayuya counts as well. Music is a kind of art.
More of a Deidara man myself.

>>281603852
If we're talking about Sasori and Deidara's opinions on how art should be, I probably agree more with Sasori, but it's close. I enjoy ephemeral art like live performance, and maybe all art ends up as ephemeral, but if we use theater as an example, I value the play more than the performance.

>>281600376
>He was destined to leave sooner or later
For a long time I felt like Itachi ruined Sasuke's progress, but I think Jiraiya is right. After this reread I realize how little he actually accomplished.
Naruto under Jiraiya learned the Rasengan, Frog Summon, and how to speak with Kurama. Massive growth. Sasuke sees all of this and doesn't understand how the gap between them got so wide.
If not Itachi, then Sasuke inferiority probably would've driven him to seeking out Orochimaru eventually.

>please don’t antagonize the green beast Kisame, I can’t afford to get mogged
Even when Midtachi has eye hacks and stomps Kekashi, he pays respect to the realest one Guy Sensei.

>>281602900
>Kakashi
Maybe he wouldn't be a shitter if he wasn't spending all day every day standing at JOBito's grave

Now that Part 1's over, who's your favorite character and what's your favorite jutsu?

>>281605090
I love this little nigga like you wouldn't believe.

>>281605090
Really like Haku, and Iruka's really great for being a good father figure to Naruto. Favorite jutsu has to be Tayuya's ogre summons.

>>281605090
Isn't there one more chapter before Kakashi Gaiden? As for favorite part 1 characters, probably Lee then Kakashi and Orochimaru. Don't have a favorite jutsu, I'll say summoning.

>>281598859
Shitnata fans are retarded and delusional. No surprises
See >>281598943

>>281598464
Should have killed Hinata

>>281605204
>casually performs a kage tier feat

>>281600035
He can't even 1 v 1 Orochimaru

>>281606215
His heart wasn't in it. Itachi scales him above Orochimaru whom he defeated effortlessly.

>>281604478
Sasuke would never seek out Itachi and remain at Chunin level. Tsunade wasnt drunk enough to assign Anko as his tutor where they bond over curse marks. Orochimaru doesn't have manners and is a sperg who needs Jiraya or Tsunade to translate. The village freaked out when he had a son

>>281600439
What HxH lacks in world building, it makes up for in characterization. All the characters in HxH are much more fleshed out and better written than Naruto cast.

>Minato introduced as Kakashi teacher
Was anyone aware Naruto was his son?

>>281600756
>Choji
>Hinata
>Yamato
>Sai

>>281605090
Kakashi's my favorite. Idk if I have a favorite jutsu, they're all pretty cool.
I can't decide if LoW or the Exams are my favorite. Inari was a drag, but the Konoha crush was also kind of eh. I guess the exams had the best for character progression. But Haku body blocking Kakashi's chidori, and then Zabuza trying to cut through his body to get Kakashi was just raw. It was a great arc for establishing the world.

>>281600993
She could fly which puts her above most characters in general

>>281606235
>His heart wasn't in it
Headcannon

>>281605204
Could sage mode Naruto beat that weasel?

>>281606215
He absolutely can based on Itachi and Kisame shitting themselves against him.

>>281606971
No, but it doesn't matter because temari forgot about him

>>281607000
Too bad he never did in canon

>>281605756
Here's your (You), attention seeking slut.

Oro has no real feats besides being hard to kill and edotensei

>>281607239
Isn't Edo Tensei actually a really easy jutsu to use? It's only forbidden and a secret because it's morally reprehensible.

>>281605756
And incredibly insecure

>>281607270
there's some vague skill component to it which is why his summons where way shittier than Kabuto's at first

>>281607380
>which is why his summons where way shittier than Kabuto's at first
Or because powercreep took over and Kishi had to retcon the 1st Hokage being a walking God among shinobi.

>>281607465
that's obviously true but Kabuto explicitly stated he improved the jutsu and got everybody near their living levels so you have to roll with it

>>281607512
Kimmimaro? Sage Level Naruto level.

>>281607512
I suppose, but then Orochimaru summons all the Hokage to their near levels later in the war, so doesnt really make sense

>>281607536
I'd believe it. He was only so weak during the rescue mission because he was minutes away from death, and his clan is supposed to be a bloodthirsty warrior clan.

>>281607562
he got absorb the his power that was in Kabuto and that apparently made his technique better. The 2nd commented and said he messed up by making the resurrection so much better as a sign of confirmation that he did improve

I didn't read the war arc, but I assumed all the edo tensei in the end was just a plot device to make the finale have everyone in Naruto participate in.

>>281597912
>attempting to murder sakura
>heinous

>>281607639
Basically.

>>281607650
Shitnatafag...

>>281607639
the bad guys needed a threatening army and it was one of the obvious things on the table when Kabuto started doing his Orochimaru impersonation

>>281607720
A "war" between "shinobi" is a stupid concept. Especially when the goal was just to get Naruto and Bee. From the enemy's perspective, it would have made much more sense to do stealth missions to get Naruto and Bee instead of announcing your presence to all the villages. The fact Obito could have snagged Naruto at anytime, before Pain, is really hard to justify as well. The story really falls apart when you realize how stupid the characters are

>>281607639
This and also to give characters closure like Sasuke and Itachi, or Gaara and his dad.
Jiraiya is the one character Kishimoto refused to revive ever, so Kabuto says something like "His body is too far underwater!" or whatever.

>>281607815
stupid or not it had to happen for thematic reasons since the setting had a history of ninja wars and this was the big daddy of them all. You're right about Obito though. He is a ball of bad writing in general and he's just too damn strong and capable for the story to play out how it did

>>281607867
He couldn't. Jiraiya with knowledge is too powerful.

>>281607867
I don’t get why Kishi drew a line with Jiraiya when it comes to Edo Tensei. Isn’t this the reason to have this mechanic in the first place as a writer? To make characters fight their friends, lovers, and mentors in an emotional battle?

>>281607867
>Jiraiya is the one character Kishimoto refused to revive ever
Also Kakashi's dad who was supposedly stronger than the sannin

>>281608084
>Put friends' lives over completing the mission
>Village ridicules you into suicide
In hindsight, and seeing the friendship themes in Naruto, this really doesn't seem believable. Very contrived development for the sake of Kakashi's character

>>281600224
As long as you follow the rule of cool, then yes, you can get away with writing shit like Kishimoto did with part 2 and the uchiha stuff we're going to go through.

>>281608260
a lot of characters in the world are kinda assholes. Naruto just has the chosen one touch where his goofy straightforward idiocy and perseverance opened people up. The standard operating procedure was more like the zabuza, danzo, raikage, etc. where the mission is everything, be as cold blooded as possible, and if you fail you better fix it somehow or take some people with you. They were only what 3 gens away from mass kid slaughtering being a fact of life

>>281605090
>favorite character
Jiraiya.
>>281605090
I really like puppets. A lot of the weird techniques Jiraiya uses are also great, his ability to be versatile with shit like >>281601093 is part of what I love about the guy.

>>281605090
I liked Haku and his ice mirrors. The whole one-handed Jutsu seals thing was cool too.

>>281597912
Oh no the test experiment slaves have escaped from Orochimaru hideout, quick Sasuke go beat them unconscious and drag them back to their cell

>>281602474
Love when she smiles

>>281608385
Maybe so, but you have to wonder what mission could have possibly turned the whole village against one of their greatest assets. Just comes off as forced writing

>>281599872
But Tsunade wanted medical-nin on every team, wouldn't it make sense to have at least one person on each team learn the green healing jutsu?

>>281608816
Shitnata doesn't care about her teammates so she doesn't qualify as a medical ninja

>>281608634
>one of their greatest assets
That's probably the reason right there. If you're the greatest, most reliable person, it looks worse when you fail, even if your reasoning was understandable. Probably doesn't help that he was in an era where most shinobi viewed themselves as tools instead of people so the idea of saving some literal whos over getting the job done came off as insulting rather than honorable.

>>281597675 (OP)
It's one of the high points of Naruto as a whole, but what it results in with regards to Sasuke leaves a lot to be desired later on

>>281605090
something isn't right in this character popularity poll...

>Itachi vs Kurenai
..Genjutsu of that level doesn't work on me..
>Itachi vs Tayuya
AIIEEEEEEEEE NOT THE FLUUUUUTE

>>281609558
Itachi is a fraud carried by eye hax, please understand.

IF DISLIKING GATEWAY ANIMES IS GOOD TASTE...
I'LL HAVE BAD TASTE MY WHOLE LIFE

>>281607867
Kabuto not reviving Konan was a wasted opportunity.

>>281605090
>Favorite character
either Neji or Haku
>Favorite jutsu
I'm unsure, maybe the 64 palms.

>>281609795
Why does this series have such an autistic hatebase?

>>281608260
I think it makes sense. Older generation in Naruto is sometimes portrayed as hardcore, putting village or family above everything.
I remember the flashback when Hashirama's dad punched him in the face for talking out of turn, sympathizing with Uchiha...

>>281608669
I swear, for like a brief second when I skimmed past the image, I thought that was Delta from Boruto.

>>281602474
>funny and cute.

>>281602474
I liked it when she called Shikamaru and his team a bunch of faggots.

the uchihas are mad dogs and need to be put down.except itachi.he's one of the good ones.

>>281610204
When anime was becoming more of a mainstream thing in the west (as in the general medium, not individual shows like DBZ/Pokemon/etc. in the past), Naruto was the most capable of attracting attention of the big 3 back in the day, at least in part due to circumstances with One Piece getting a 4kids dub and Bleach being locked to adult swim, leaving Naruto in the best position of getting a relatively faithful dub that only mildly toned down violence for the censors, but was still viewable to the largest audience. Having the most broad appeal at the time was perfect for attracting the most autistic fans and haters.

>>281610338
get new material you hack

Does Orochimaru not have the medical expertise like Obito to transplant Sasuke’s eyes for himself?

>>281610646
Not even Kabuto is as skilled as Obito, sadly.

>>281610646
>>281610692
Oro wants an Uchiha body to make full use of the Sharingan and not get drained by the eyes like Kakashi. This has been clearly stated before.

>>281610729
>This has been clearly stated before.
Nta, but no, it has never been stated, it's just an headcanon, it makes sense but it's still an headcanon.

>>281610729
He doesn’t need to over use them if he just wants to copy jutsu’s.

>>281608980
Guess again, nigger.

>>281607703
No, it's HinataGAWD

>>281610744
>it's just an headcanon, it makes sense but it's still an headcanon.
This is 90% of Naruto worldbuilding
The fanbase is world champion in mental gymnastic, doing so much work for Kishimoto just to keep the story afloat

>>281611174
Was thinking the same thing, but honestly that's not particularly exclusive of Naruto, Fanon is almost always pervasive, and honestly Bleach is probably the one where it annoys me the most.

skilled lips and fingers

>>281605090
Naruto honorable mention: Gaara
Sand Tsunami

>>281605090
I consider Kakashi Gaiden part 1 still, so FTG

>>281605090
Neji. He’s underrated af

Zabuza’s mist jutsu. It’s simple, deadly and ninja like.

>>281611604
She’s probably a rigid bad kisser tho. You would have to show her the ropes and teach her all the techniques.

>>281605090
>Fav
Sasuke
>Jutsu
Gates

>>281605090
Dosu.
Roshomon Gate.

>>281605090
>6th place: Byakugan
>7th place: Sharingan
>By 89 votes
*Kishimoto will remember that*

I love Uchiha.

Do you guys think if Netflix wanted to make a live action Naruto series like OP would they make Uchiha all black for representation?

>>281612601
Kushina is a redhead so they'd make her black and thus Naruto would be half black. They'd chose the whitest biracial man ever tho

The Uchiha would all be white considering its in their genetics to be insane autistic killers.

>>281605756
>>281607281
Nah we freely admit her flaws.
>>281605925
(You)

>>281612601
>Uchiha are black
>Sasuke blackstory is a huge nigga moment of self inflicted violent

>>281612712
Actually nvm, Sasuke killing Hinata would be kino. She got that "innocent sacrificial lamb" vibe.

>>281607204
Never cared for it. Oro was too small.

>>281612140
Not just in kissing. Tayuya has zero experience in any kind of intimacy.

>>281612802
What would actually challenge Naruto's moral code is Hinata killing Sasuke somehow.

>>281606235
>>281607000
>>281612812
0-2raiya cope.

>>281613041
>12 year old Itachi victim

>>281613024
>Naruto's moral code
If Sasuke if kill = you bad
If Sasuke & Sasuke-like = coolest guy
This is Naruto moral compass

>>281613062
HUMBLEchi would also wipe the floor with Kekraiya.

Pretty sure Jiraiya implies Oro was superior to him the last time they fought in a quote from the tsunade arc.

>>281613024
Again, he foregave the coolest guy himself, as he said this chapter rather than accept nuance in problems he would rather be a retard.

>>281613091
OROSLAYERtachi shat his pants and ran from Jiraiya, using Amaterasu to save his and Kisame's lives.

>>281613121
Never happened iirc. In fact he seemed oddly confident despite being drugged. Maybe overconfident but still.

Is this an actual debate? Maybe in part 1 since Oro seemed like a threat here but part 2 makes it pretty obvious Oro is a below average Akatsuki while Jiraiya goes to box with the leader in his own hometurf.

>>281613156
>"Despite our handicap, there's still a gap between us"
Seems to imply, based on their last encounter (which i'm going to assume is their previous fight), that Oro was stronger since that's the only moment he has to base on.

>>281613187
We're discussing part 1 here, where Jiraiya didn't have sage mode so him losing makes sense.

>>281613138
HUMBLEchi the double agent didn't want to actually capture Naruto nor kill KEKraiya.

>>281613196
That's Oro's line actually, but it doesn't say anything about the past, it says "we're both handicapped so that evens out but I'm still winning"

>>281613239
>That's Oro's line actually
It's not.

>>281613582
Not him, but honestly it really seems like it's Oro to say it from your panel.

>>281613239
>>281613582
Wait nvm the arrow is pointing at Oro, although I could swear the anime had it be Jiraiya's line.

>>281613024
Maybe not killing but Hinata agreeing that Sasuke is a threat to the village when Konoha 11 were discussing his fate would've been an interesting moment.

>>281613845
unforgivable, that would destroy their relationship

>>281612867
I want to smell her.

>>281613845
>Hinata showing free will and not being a parasitic creature that sustains herself on Naruto's attentions
BLASPHEMY

Sakon and Ukon were good boys who did their best. Any slander against them will NOT be tolerated.

>>281613212
Part 2 makes it clearly wrong. Part 1 makes it at best a rock paper scissor situation (which seemed to be the intent at first with the sannins) since Jiraiya can fend off Itachi and Kisame but might have trouble with Orochimaru / Orochimaru is still considered a threat to the village if he gets back his arms.

>>281613845
I don't know, I think Hinata being the only one that didn't agree with killing Sasuke just because she understood Naruto's point of view would have also been a nice moment for their relationship.

>>281614057
Hinata showing free will and not being a parasitic creature that sustains herself on Naruto's attentions
Literally her entire arc since Pain but ok.

>>281614291
Honestly in part 1 the sannin seemed to be meant as stronger than the singular akatsuki members.

>>281613845
>>281613945
Shikamaru, Kiba, Lee and Sai were completely on board with Sasuke dying and that didn't affect Naruto's relationship with them, hell, they are arguably closer post war than they were beforehand.
Even Sakura had somewhat given up on Sasuke and (unsuccessfuly) tried to kill him, which didn't affect Naruto's crush on her at all.
Hinata would really need to kill Sasuke for Naruto to draw the line on her.

>>281614361
They're at least on par in part 2

>>281610067
Would be funny if Tobi told him not to revive her out of spite.

>>281614382
>Even Sakura had somewhat given up on Sasuke and (unsuccessfuly) tried to kill him, which didn't affect Naruto's crush on her at all.
Her fake-confessing to Naruto pretty much ruined the potential of any sort of romance they might have possibly ever had together.

Anyone close to Naruto successfuly killing Sasuke would be interesting but it would damage Naruto's image forever, Sasuke can do as he please but if death is brought upon Sasuke then Naruto flips, he'd start to hate that former close one for doing the things Sasuke was doing...but towards Sasuke.
Naruto would be forever known as the "hypocrite" MC of jump (more than he is now).

>>281614485
He still wanted her, it was only after Sasuke came back in the war and he saw Sakura was just as in love with him as she was in part 1 that he realized he didn't have a chance and why he painfully said in tears to Minato in their goodbye that he "hasn't met that kind of girl yet".

>>281613024
Naruto would write off Hinata instantly and would probably end up with Pinkshit since they could bond over Sasukeks death

>>281614582
No he didn't. Him joking to his dad that they're together doesn't mean that he was still in love with her.
Even during the 5ks he was shocked that Sakura wanted to kill Sasuke because he knew she still loved him.

>>281613187
Too bad powercreep makes Orochimaru still superior according to Jman himself

>>281614318
>Literally her entire arc since Pain but ok.
Name one thing she does that goes against Naruto's intentions or challenges Naruto's worldview

>>281614680
Never happened, but it sure would be interesting to see Oro somehow superior to Itachi out of nowhere.

>>281613187
To be fair Itachiwank means he could do that to most of Akatsuki, so I don't think that is particularly indicative of comparative power levels.

One funny thing about Naruto's moral code is how in gaiden he's more upset about Sasuke supposedly cheating on Sakura than on anything he did before hand, and then he can't help but throwing shade at Taka for "corrupting Sasuke".
It's really like those battered wives who are rather bummed at the husband but somehow 10x more furious at the mistress for managing to tempt the husband, and Naruto isn't even the person being cheated on in this scenario!

>>281614712
>acting like the power scaling in Naruto makes any sense

>>281614671
Just like how his reaction to the confession doesn't mean he moved on, there's a reason Kishi only had him admit he had no chance with Sakura at the very end.

>Narutofags still insisting team 7 got any growth from the events of 5KS
You will get status quo AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!

>>281613187
>>281614712
>Jiraiya was nearly killed by Naruto's version 2 transformation
>Meanwhile a sick, dying Orochimaru who couldn't use hand seals was just toying around the same transformed Naruto
Also if you're talking about war arc Oro who got his arms back and could summon the hokage then there's no way Jiraiya can touch him.

>>281614887
Jiraiya actually stopped him without harming him. Oro tried stabbing him, did 0 damage, then fucked off.
Also Oro being Pain's subordinate/inferior makes the part 2 powercreep pretty obvious.

>>281614671
>Him joking to his dad that they're together
That scene wasn't even mentioned in that post.

>>281614887
Jiraiya got pretty powercrept for dying in mid part 2 while both Tsunade and Orochimaru got decent buffs in the war.

>powerscaling
you fucking retards

>>281614968
Tsunade got to hang out with Madara but Oro didn't do shit actually.

>>281614994
He revived the kages and took Kabuto's power (supposedly).

>>281614846
Anon, Naruto didn't grow since land of waves, Sakura didn't grow since timeskip, Sasuke never stopped developing, but the quality of it is variable.

>>281614949
No but I know that that's what he was referring to because that's literally the only scene that ""hints"" at anything between them after 5ks.

>>281615019
His overall mannerism and how he had to debunk his own statement to his dad already implies he kept loving her after the confession.

>>281613187
>part 2 makes it pretty obvious Oro is a below average Akatsuki
??? No it doesn't, lmao. He only lost to Itachi.
>>281614948
>Also Oro being Pain's subordinate/inferior makes the part 2 powercreep pretty obvious.
Going by this logic, Itachi should also be far weaker than Nagato because he was his subordinate, but he's the one who killed him during the war. Also Jiraiya lost pretty hard to Pain. This argument is extremely retarded.

>>281614968
Effectively why didn't Kabuto resurrect Jiraiya? Did he say he couldn't find the corpse?
>>281614994
At least thanks to Hashirama's cells he could restrain Tobirama when he tried to ignore him. That interaction still makes no sense, with Tobirama out of nowhere saying now they're at full power they can break free, but Oro saying that thanks his Hashirama cells he can force them, while Tobirama should know the seal to free himself, wich is instead used by Madara, out of nowhere. Madara truly is the most asspull character of Naruto.

>>281615136
STINKY girl.

>>281615015
That's the usual Edo shit, maybe a bit better but I don't think he needs that to defeat literally anyone with Hashirama Edo. Absorbing Kabuto's sage powers and being able to use them would actually be a huge powerup though.

>>281614989
Yeah it's kinda dumb honestly.

>>281615116
Jiraiya was stated explicitly to be able to beat Pain. Itachi was indeed weaker than Pain. Nobody would ever argue Orochimaru has even a chance against Pain, meanwhile canon says Jiraiya is more or less in Pain's league.

>>281614198
>Only draws Sakon and Tayuya out of the sound 4
The artist ships them don't they?
Also, props to them to actually making these human sized tumors look cool.

>>281615251
>Jiraiya was stated explicitly to be able to beat Pain
No he wasn't, retard. Going by this, Jiraiya would be even stronger than Sage Naruto

>>281614301
>Naruto's point of view
Borderline deranged obsession with some dude who doesn't give two shits about him?

>>281615304
>Also, props to them to actually making these human sized tumors look cool.
Rude.

>>281615220
>Hashirama Edo
Hashirama Edo isn't forced to obey him, he's too strong.

>>281615397
I mean, being tumors is literally their ability.

watching shippuden, currently at episode 346
i think shippuden is.. 500 episodes, right?
what should I watch once I finish it? movie spin-off special whatever, what is there to watch?? just to know, of course I have 150 episodes left which are 3-4 weeks more

>>281613187
Suigetsu was itching to fight Kisame for his sword while he was shitting himself at the idea of Sasuke brining Orochimaru back.

>>281615501
The only movies I watched were Road to Ninja and The Last, so I can suggest only on that, I also read the novel with the dinos and Boruto.

>>281597675 (OP)
I want Tayuya to become my slave...

>>281614690
Her coming to that battlefield in the first place. Slapping him after Neji's death. Giving herself up to Toneri.

How did Sakura unlock the byakugo seal during the war arc? Tsunade said she had to spend years storing chakra in her forehead to use it. Did Sakura start storing chakra ever since the end of part 1? Why didn't she use it against Sasori or Pain?

>>281615337
It was LITERALLY stated onscreen, retard.

>>281615542
That's actually a good point. Normally I'd say this is good character writing since he was enslaved under Oro but I wouldn't blame anyone for adding this to Kishimoto's wacky powerlevels.

>>281615947
He got one body. It was still a 6 v 1 he had no chance of winning.

>>281616079
Pain explicitly said "he would have defeated us", which makes sense because stuff like frog song or giant boiling oil swamps would attack all bodies at once.

>>281615947
>>281616109
You're literally just ignoring context.

>>281615897
I think at a certain point it was implied the Byakugo isn't complete until you gather enough energy within it.

i-is he right?

Isn't Kakashi 40 or something?

>>281616526
No, Kakashi is 29 at the oldest here. The World of Naruto is pretty weird in terms of time though. Chiyo, Onoki and some of the other older people have seen pretty much all of the Ninja world as we know it develop. Hell Kakazu was old enough to have fought in the warring states period.

With Konoha only being like 60 something years old in Naruto, maybe it would've been interesting if a sequel explored the Naruto world hundreds of years later.

>>281616713
One thing is certain, as plenty of people pointed out as the original series was wrapping up. Boruto and Sarada's offspring are going to be so busted that nothing in that tree is going to be able to be challenged by anything moving forward, bar Super Aliens, the original Ootsuski already being a ridiculous concept to anyone who didn't read the manga in insane detail from start to finish.

>>281614382
>>281614582
>>281614787
>>281615075
Didn't we go over this already?

>>281616526
No weirdly enough Kakashi is supposed to be the youngest of jonin, But he's the same age as Guy, Asuka and Kurenai

>>281616850
sakurafags are fucking retarded okay

>>281616399
Yeah, Kishi hurt countless fans just by telling the story he wanted to tell. Including me

>>281616843
>nothing in that tree is going to be able to be challenged by anything moving forward, bar Super Aliens
Don't you know about the Daitsuki, the original alien clan of which the Ōtsutsuki were but a minor branch? The Chakra Tree in Naruto was but a defective plant of lesser power compared to the actual real shit those alien motherfuckers are growing on Ninja Neptune.
Next week, on Re;ruto - The Will of the Daitsuki! The Original Cycle of Hate...Revealed!

>>281616922
>Kakashi is supposed to be the youngest of jonin, But he's the same age as Guy, Asuka and Kurenai
Naruto has supposedly flunked out of the Ninja School curriculum multiple times and was held back years, yet he's the same age as everyone who had a normal school upbring.

>>281616850
Yes, and i was proven right in all of those times.
>>281616952
Kishimoto himself doesn't think it was a big deal, you really think he would actually make that event be the reason Naruto stopped loving her? Lmao.

>>281617022
The cope answer is that Naruto took multiple early tests for some reason.

>>281617049
See? Look at this tard

If you want Naruto to be with Sakura, you are either a woman or a man with no self-respect.

>>281617049
If that makes you feel better about Sakura being fandom's laughingstock then fine. Have it your way. Naruto totally was in love with this unlikeable jerk who was even more pathetic about Sasuke than he was.

>>281617022
>>281617075
Kakashi passed when he was fucking 6.

>>281616983
>Ōtsutsuki
>Daitsuki
I was pissed when I discovered that Ōtsutsuki is not written
>大つ月 (those greats ones of/from the Moon)
But
>大筒木 (great cylinder tree)
Wow Kishimoto very evocative name

team 7 is the worst part of the story
you know it's true

>>281617125
Do you have a single argument to share or what?

>>281617202
Is there even a story other than Team 7 and the shit that goes on around its members?

>>281617241
Do you?

>>281617202
Actually, it's Otsutsuki. And the Uchiha. And the cloud village.

>>281617170
>>281617173
Funny how i never ever implied that i'm a Sakurafag or NaruSakufag and yet that's what you assumed because i'm not deluded enough to believe Kishimoto actually changed the status quo there.

>>281617253
Kishimoto himself not thinking the fake confession was a big deal is a sounding argument, much better than whatever gut feeling you have about the matter.

>>281617259
>Cloud Village lumped in with Otsuski and Uchiha hacks

>>281617243
Akatsuki making their moves while Black Zetsu plots in the background.

>>281617075
>Naruto took multiple early tests for some reason.
Man he really is the most favored ninja ever born

>>281617342
No it's not.

>>281617352
>Akatsuki making their moves
Half of Akatsuki moves that we see revolve around Naruto

>>281608980
As usual, Hinata haters don't read the manga.

>>281617259
Just the Uchiha, the story constantly, at every point, had to bend for them.

>>281617368
Kishi is a less forgiving person than Naruto, there's no reason or logic behind him writing that making him move on.
Besides the only evidence to the contrary is that it wasn't mentioned for a long time (ignore Sakura and Naruto were not even in the same place for most of those chapters).

>>281617309
What status quo? Naruto wasn't jumping through the hoops trying to bring back Sasuke to impress Sakura.

>>281617659
His crush on her is part of the status quo, regardless of Sasuke.
That's part of their dynamic.

This spergout is a pretty good reason why this part of Naruto is never referenced again even when they literally go back in time to the part 1 era.

>>281617788
the fuck are you even talking about

>>281614198
JOBS to dog piss.

>>281618111
In no official media after Naruto ended ever mentions Naruto's former crush on Sakura, not even those that happen during part 1.

>>281597829
I like sasuke edgy form funny how he lose it just before his villain phase with akatsuki

>>281618180
Dog piss would've taken Itachi's sharingan.

>>281617788
>>281618203
to be honest that's a good thing, since love triangles add literally nothing to any story

>>281618366
Kishi is allergic to anything fun like that. Same for Rasenshuriken costing Naruto use of his arm for a while.

>>281618433
Oh please, like Naruto needed all his fucking training to amount to nothing AGAIN

>>281618417
My point was more so that Narutofags are so obnoxious about this that everyone managing the IP would rather never bring it up, but yeah i agreed.

>>281618478
what the fuck are you talking about, seriously?

>>281618433
>>281618448
Realtalk, how strong should Naruto been after the timeskip?
No making the timeskip never have happened so part 2 makes some modicum of sense

>>281618491
Are you unable to read the reply chain or something?

>>281613845
Hinata not getting a single line in that scene, looking completely miserable while Naruto ignores her had to have been intentional. Kishi must have had some beef with Hinata fans or something.

>>281618543
He should be able to have full control of 1 tail like in VOTE.

>>281618543
Not sperging out while using fox powers for once.

>>281618562
He hates all shipfags equally...until they dump all their savings on mech.

>>281618562
>Hinata not getting a single line in that scene, looking completely miserable while Naruto ignores her
Yamato Nadeshiko please understand

>>281618548
You are simply so fucking retarded I cannot comprehend your sub 80 iq waifufag logic

>>281618562
Forgot the pic..

>>281618639
Even fucking Kiba knows Naruto should've won that fight and could've if he took it seriously, holy shit.
>>281618619
It looks like she's trying to something here actually

>>281618627
Proving my point.

>>281618448
Nta, but that's not how shonen works, things are stronger based on their flaws, as if they don't have them it's just base powerlevel, see how the mangekyo was invincible when Itachi had it, but when Sasuke gets it and the infinite it becomes almost worthless, as it doesn't have any problem involved.
I usually use this argument for One Piece, where Chopper's monster point was absurdly powerful and his various transformations useful, as they had limitations, but now that he can activate them with no problems there are far less uses, and he's mainly a living shield, beside the doctor.

Speaking of shipfags I find it funny that there are people who seem to get really angry if you even vaguely reply that Kishi intentionally shipbaited all sorts of ships for hundreds of chapters

>>281618639
Why is Naruto so annoyed at Kiba?

>>281618543
Training with Jiraiya? Hmmm, early part 2 strength is hard to rank. So it's hard to say, but I'd say he should be strong enough to match up with Zabuza. Maybe still weaker than him though. That's a good starting point.

>>281618713
oh please, naruto was stronger than zabuza after the chunin exams

>>281618618
>He hates all shipfags
Shouldn't have made a character so tied up in romance and made sure all her big moments are reliant on a ship then.

>>281618543
Have him learn some actual fucking jutsu beyond a bigger rasengan. Make it so the stupid fucking shadow clone cheat code doesn't need to exist to explain why Naruto goes from being sub Sai level at the start of Shippuden to Ninja Jesus in the span of like three months.

>>281618700
>Goddammit, he's right

>>281618595
>>281618774
I really am beginning to think shillfic anon posts among us.

If so, fucking update

>>281618686
That is a good point. Even with Haki being a thing post-3D2Y, Chopper opting to spam Kung-Fu Point instead of making use of his actually useful transformations will always be a tedious part of the series.

>>281616399
Yeh
That's what happens when your emotional intelligence develops too much.

>>281618774
Danzo got all the fun wind jutsus, it's infuriating.

>>281618699
Because that basically implies that Kishimoto would a sell-out and sacrifice the story to troll profit off mech.

>>281618737
Kabuto was toying around with him.

>>281618639
>>281618666
Come to think of it, of course Kiba knows Naruto should've won that fight. He's dumb enough to follow powerscaling logic. If he could last longer against Sakon than Sasuke could, Naruto who beat him should've won that fight.
>>281618830
He even got to outdo Temari at it

>>281618857
Sounds like Kabutofag or Fraudkefag cope

>>281617202
I'd say Asuma's team is worse. Which is pretty bad since they're the team that gets the most attention besides the main one.
>Shikaramu's "woah he's a lazy asshole but he's super smart because everyone becomes a retard whenever he does anything" gimmick gets annoying really fast
>Choji is a fat annoying retard
>Ino is Sakura 2, albeit less annoying
>their whole Inoshikacho formation feels really stupid and forced, and Choji's jutsu doesn't synergize well at all Shikamaru's or Ino's.

>>281618713
>I'd say he should be strong enough to match up with Zabuza. Maybe still weaker than him though.
That's the level he was at. He was fast enough that he could keep up with a serious Kakashi.

>>281618830
>Danzo got all the fun wind jutsus

>>281617342
He didn't think Naruto joking to Minato was a big deal, either.

>>281618968
hey, if the bitch could confess falsely to him

>>281618861
Did anyone else got to know Sakon/Ukon (feat. Jirobo) beat Sasuke before the arc?
Does Sasuke's home have cameras that were checked afterwards or did Sakon just told Kiba off-screen mid-fight?

>>281618737
Reminder that Haku, who is stronger than Zabuza, was outsped by land of waves Sasuke.

>>281618639
Everyone in Konoha 11 were given entire Bible worth walls of text here lmao. They were writing fucking essays yet Hinata had to stay silent because??

>>281619014
this is your brain on powerscaling

>>281618968
He never actually commented on that iirc

>>281618543
Being able to enter a pseudo chakra mode on command with it under control. Make it like Super Saiyan in the Cell Saga but with drawbacks like the Kaio-ken. Emphasize that the problem isn't that Sasuke is drastically stronger, but that he can suppress Kurama, so Naruto needs to seek independent power.

>>281617659
No it's not, you retard. The last time Naruto expressed any sort of romantic attraction to Sakura was at the start of part 2 when he thought them going to Ichiraku was a date. And even then he wasn't going out of his way to care for Sakura out of love.

>>281619069
gross

The powerscaling is pretty shrimple: Lee fresh out of life-threatening surgery >>>>> Lee during the Chunin Exams

>>281619071
Adjust your aim, pardner.

>>281619071
>So angry he replied to the wrong post
Once again Proving my point.

>>281618392
That's what killed him.

>>281619100
Tsunade's touch does that to a man.

>>281619083
Nice reply idiot.

>>281619100
Except Gaara says exams Lee was stronger than post-surgery Lee.

>>281619195
Gaara was wrong.

>>281619195
After his training he was seeing Lee's movements in slow motion and didn't think it was because he was just that much stronger than Lee now.

>>281618543
FUCKING SAGE MODE NARUTO TIER that’s how strong he should have been.

>>281615136
puta

>>281619362
Honestly, the War arc would have made a lot more sense if we were working with that level of power off the jump from the timeskip. At first Naruto couldn't even handle a severely weakened clone of Itachi.

>>281619393
Stop seething, Anko.

>>281619362
That's just Boruto.

>>281619362
Where would he learn sage mode this early, dumbass?

>>281617253
>>281619100
No it goes: Gaara>Lee during his fight with Gaara>Lee during his fight with Kimimaro>Kyuubi Naruto during his fight with Kimimaro

>>281619556
nta but gee I dunno, the motherfucker who introduced it into the story who also happens to be his mentor?

>>281619124
You mean your point that you can't even defend? Lmao.
You're a retard.

>>281617253
Misclicked last post.

>>281619043
Before I mentioned its a braindead powerscaling, I just have fun noticing these nonsensical parts.

>>281619124
>so angry he randomly capitalized one word from his sentence
kek you're projecting really hard.

>>281619069
>he can suppress Kurama
I really dislike that plot point, even if it could be developed in a better manner.

>>281619686
My point that you're obnoxious keeps getting proven right.

>>281619742
This is the poorest excuse of a "no u" i've seen so far.
Anyway, people have moved on from this topic, stop replying to me if you're not going to bring anything.

>>281617702
No it's not, you retard. The last time Naruto expressed any sort of romantic attraction to Sakura was at the start of part 2 when he thought them going to Ichiraku was a date. And even then he wasn't going out of his way to care for Sakura out of love.

>>281619556
Nta, but from the freaking frog from wich he learn it in canon, whom Jiraiya knows and knows it too?

honestly it’s not even that I care about power levels in terms of character dickmeasuring so much as when my suspension of disbelief regarding the setting as a whole just becomes more and more impossible to manage

Schizo hours?

>>281619860
Here's some good guidelines to go by
>speed feats are bullshit, especially in a setting where that's a specific technique only sometimes used in combat by specialists (body flicker with Shisui and Minato)
>When people are throwing mountain destroying bullshit, the scaling has been forever broken and there is no use trying to rectify this (Every shounen ever but most noticably DBZ)

>>281619661
I just realized the only time Rock Lee ever won a fight was against Sasuke before the Exams even started, then he never won ever again

>>281619960
>When people are throwing mountain destroying bullshit, the scaling has been forever broken and there is no use trying to rectify this
Nah, most of classic folklore and myths are written like this

>>281620209
this disproves anything how exactly?

Kishimoto could not pay me to convince me that Chunin Exams Rock Lee is stronger than Foxruto when beat up a stronger version of a Sasuke that outclassed Rock Lee (according to Lee himself).

>>281620273
>guy specializing in taijutsu does better against armored taijutsu man than blind rage ninjutsu man engaging in fucking taijutsu

>>281620209
>Implying classic folklore gave a fuck about scaling and consistency

>>281620223
That you can have a clear scaling even like that

>>281620319
Naruto wipe the floor with a taijutsu man that was stronger than Lee.

>>281618543
At minimum, the Wind element. Or even an imperfect Rasenshuriken.
Sasuke came back and had maybe 5 different variants on Chidori.

>>281620364
If you read Don Quixote there's an entire sequence with a discussion on the powerlever of the warriors of the Matter of France, Britain & Troy
Autists have always existed
Maybe the authors didn't give a fuck, but a portion of the audience always had

>>281620365
except it's not?
because folklore and legend are frequently contradicting?
>>281620368
by using his head

>>281620209
>>281620364
Bruh do you really want to get into how Son Wukong should just roflstomp literally anything that gets in the way during Journey to the West but is repeatedly held-up by some stupid bullshit for the entire journey?

>>281620422
>Sakura goes from useless to being Tsunade 2.0
>Sasuke becomes a swordmaster, learns like 5 different types of Chidori, Kirin and can summon Manda
>Naruto... can now use a slightly bigger Rasengan
Jiraiya really was just a fucking loser and an awful teacher.

>>281620500
Didn't mean to reply to the second guy.

>>281620500
this is the shit i'm talking about
anon has no idea what he's talking about

hercules held up the literal fucking world in his legend

>>281620447
>by using his head
Naruto's head was handicaping him when he beat up Sasuke.

>>281620527
>hercules held up the literal fucking world in his legend
He held up the sky, not the world.
This doesn't change anything it still doesn't make sense as a feat.

>>281620527
Herakles held up Ouranos, the entire sky
Much bigger deal

>>281620585
oh right
that was a gow thing

Well, well, well

>>281620585
>it still doesn't make sense as a feat
The sky is a god with a body in Greek myth

>>281620520
Naruto wouldn't have Rasengan or Toads without Jiraiya in the first place.

>>281620615
Yes, speedfeats are bullshit

>>281620631
>with a body
Not what Atlas and Hercules were lifting, and I meant that it doesn't make sense from a scaling perspective rather than on a logical one.

>>281620615
>flash_attosecond.jpg

>>281618666
Kiba is talking about SAGEruto raping WEAKmssuke

>>281620814
Read it again

>>281620615
Nu, uh. Kakashi cut lightning before part 1. That’s a FACT

>>281619362
That already puts him above most Kage and strong enough to throw nukes right out of the gate. Sasuke would be a joke at that point. How about some elemental jutsu and very very rudimentary sage mode that gives him an insane boost but barely lasts? He still has to actually learn it.

>>281620904
>very very rudimentary sage mode that gives him an insane boost but barely lasts? He still has to actually learn it.
what is with you faggots and retarded partial transformations?

>>281620520
Jiraiya turned Naruto into a top tier and kaiju slayer in 2 months then did jackshit for 3 years. It was DELIBERATE sabotage

>>281620851
He's talking about Naruto letting MS Sasuke leave

>all this talk about frogs and wind
>instead of the basics of FTG

>>281620904
Sure, make him more versatile and I would advise Kishi from making Naruto meet Sasuke at the beginning of Shippuden. Where it lacked build up and made Kishi have everyone look like chumps against Sasuke. Post 5 kage summit was when Naruto should meet Sasuke for the first time post timeskip.
>"Hisashiburida na, Sasuke."

>>281621032
There are a dozen fanfics with this retarded premise. Pick one.

Nothing is more boring and stupid than making Naruto an outright clone of his father.
>>281620985
The real answer is Kishi wanted to age everyone up but didn't think about their progress.

>>281621032
>all this talk about ninjutsu and chakra
>instead of the basics of CQC

>>281617202
Disagree

>>281621055
So basically avoid the humiliation ritual of early part 2 and keep Naruto roughly on par with Sasuke? That could be good depending on which arcs change depending on their performances

>>281621032
Frog moveset is the most interesting Naruto got. Summons throwing tons of fun elemental stuff, even genjutsu, and the best sharingan killer, FROG PUNCH (still undefeated)

name a more wasted kunoichi

>>281621315
>1010
>Hinata
>Sakura

>>281621315
Unironically Hinata and Tenten.

>>281621348
>Sakura
Meant to say Ino.

>>281621315
cease

>>281620615
Before thread dies, is speed the absolute hardest part of writing superhuman characters? Even if you don't specify "how" fast they move it feels like it's leaps and bounds more difficult to keep under control compared to say, pure strength (where you can just keep it equalized against durability)

>>281619041
Writing non-shipping interactions is hard, please understand.

>>281621424
Ino lived up to any potential she had and didn't have already.

>>281621315
>Tenten (only weapon user in the setting beyond fucking swordmasters)
>Hinata (ocular power that in theory was on par with the Sharingan, unique fighting style that in theory counters the very basis of the setting magic system, fucked up family & backstory with in theory international ramifications)

>>281621495
I mean, writing aside, you can see how fast a character is moving in the manga (if the artist is good enough at potrying it) and very clearly in the anime. I stopped taking seriously statments like speed of sound, lightning, light, when the story itself just doesn’t support such feats.
99% of the time every verse is most likely subsonic.

>>281621682
The byakugan and Sharigan were never stated to be equals or rivals.

>>281619960
There's really no excuse for anyone not to use body flicker in a pinch. It's like Jedi force speed getting forgotten after the one time.

>>281621162
Pararels and inverse development. Both become strong in their own way. While Sasuke becomes more deprived in his quest for revenge, Naruto soars from a loser to a hero.

>>281621450
seems today ramen is early.

>>281621781
They should've been though.

>>281621781
Ok, I checked, you're right, there was a panel where Kakashi stated that the Byakugan has superior perception abilities compared to the Sharingan, and that's it.
Still, Sharingan, Byakugan and Rinnegan are called the Three Great Dōjutsu inherited directly from the lunar ayylmao, but two of those make you a god among men and the other is super X-ray
Stupid writing

>>281621786
Imagine how disorienting it is to move beyond your own ability to react.

>>281621949
Just get drunk