Thread 281631568

I can't believe this guy.

>>281631568 (OP)
He was asked a question
He answered truthfully
Simple as.

>>281631568 (OP)
Is it really possible to have such an accurate count? At best, that's only the confirmed deaths.

>"villain"
>right about literally everything

>>281632566
Milliardo was the real antagonist.

>>281632799
>Fighting loyally on Treize's side.
>Rommefellers go full evil
>Treize says "I wanna be a loser lol"
>Zechs put into a suicide mission and given the chance to run away to the colonies
>"Hmmm I have decided to throw a giant space ship into the earth"
what the fuck was that about?

For me it's the LEO
the best Grunt Suit

>>281632566
Especially in the modern day with drones?
Treize was prescient.

>>281633360
Zechs idea of pacifism had become warped through the entire series, by the end he's so far removed from reality that his only solution is to wipe out earth in hopes of scarring humanity to deter anyone from starting a war again.

>>281633739
I like Treize because deep down, you can tell his problem with Mobile Doll technology isn't REALLY about removing the humanity from warfare, or the higher idealistic political reasons he says

It's obviously because he just thinks it's COOLER if real people fight in the robots. He is like the audience asking
>what's the point if there's no people in the robots? that's stupid, that's not fun

>>281631568 (OP)
I can't believe someone okay'd ANY of Wings writing.

>>281633360
They ran out of ideas so they just had the masked guy do a Char's Counterattack™ again
Wing changed directors halfway through the show and a bunch of ideas they probably could've actually used in the show basically got tossed until they dug them up for the manga adaption years later

>>281633824
>Wing changed directors halfway through the show
Really? I never knew that, that explains a lot of questions and complaints I had about it
Did this director change, by chance, happen around the time they introduced the Mercurius and Vayeate, when all 5 of the gundam designers were locked up?

>>281632384
Yes, they are in space and the mobile suits have to have their IFF and radars on. Space is a hard place to navigate if you don't have the right systems. The hard part of tracking people would be battleships but I think all normal suits have emergency trackers on them.

Amazing how he is the most talked about character in the anime.

>>281633821
the toys sells well, so why not?

>Trieze was right about everything
>Wufei isn't wrong about women
>Heero is the perfect man
>Zechs just wants to fit in

Zechs is still better than Char.
Let it be known.

>>281633782
But the thing is aesthetic actually does matter. It's literally not just for show. Treize understands that. It affects how human beings conduct themselves in war, something that the soulless Mobile Dolls and their remote directors could never understand. To be beautiful, one must conduct himself beautifully.

>>281634181
I don't know about that, but Tallgeese is the best Mobile Suit design in any of the series

>>281634250
I agree, I'm not even saying his higher-minded reasons were wrong
I'm just saying that clearly, deep down, Treize just enjoys fighting in Mobile Suits. He's like a classical plate-armor knight who is lamenting the death of chivalry and the industrialization of warfare
He just wants to keep having fun duels in cool mobile suits
Mobile Dolls turn it all into a big boring pointless slog

>>281634250
>specifically has Epyon built with no long-range weapons
such an OG

>>281634267
>>281634250
That's why the best Gundams are the ones that are just medieval/renaissance aesthetics but in space and with robbuts.

This was such a cool fight, having Heero pilot Heavyarms instead of his own gundam and everything. They don't do that sort of thing enough.

>>281634253
Why?

>>281634267
>Mobile Dolls turn it all into a big boring pointless slog
Even from the point of resources and investment, he's right.
At that point why not just make it all a literal videogame? Or just skip everything and just sit down in a table and talk it out? It's not even good entertainment.
It's unironically souless. It adds nothing to anyone or anything. It's just a total and complete waste of resources making war even more pointless than it already is.

>>281634330
>awesome design and color scheme
>shield, head crest, giant fuck-you cannon
>prototype grandpappy to the LEO, the best grunt suit ever built
>overdesigned on purpose to the point where it's nearly impossible for anyone who isn't a genius pilot to handle
what's not to love about the Tallgeese?

>>281634366
>best grunt suit
Elaborate more on that so I know if I agree with you or not.

>>281631568 (OP)
Who was more autistic, Wu Fei or Kamille?

>>281634386
see >>281633715

>>281634386
Grunt suits= any non-gundam, and he’s wrong.

UC is the only one with good grunt suits worth a damn and that’s just a fact.

>>281634321
Gundam pilots trading machines is pretty sick.
Still,
>Hey Heero, let's have you fight 1v1 using a suit that isn't your own, has a completely different fighting style, and relies massively on its heavy left-arm cannons. By the way your left arm is broken.
Doesn't quite seem fair.

>>281634449
>doesn't like the Leo, Aries, Taurus, Virgo etc.
different strokes I guess but Wing had lots of great grunt suits
even the aquatic ones were kind of fun

>>281634401
>>281634449
So if a bunch of Leos ended up in the original Gundam series, would they bead Zeon before the Gundam even got finished?

How do we feel on the possibility of getting an FT anime?

>>281634488
I can't remember the exact details but it was Heero's idea to use Heavyarms instead. I also remember Trowa said something about trying to readjust the arm to be lighter, but I can't remember if Heero took him up on it or not

also had an option to detach the big gun to reveal a beam saber if needed, which is more Heero's speed
but you're right he was definitely at a disadvantage, you can tell he keeps trying to pilot Heavyarms as if it's Wing, flying around all over the place like that

Clearly Heavyarms has one battle style, and you gotta stick to it - just stand there, menacingly, keep shooting rockets and machine guns until you're out of ammunition

I'm rewatching the series right now, and I still think Duo is the coolest.

>>281634725
Go to bed hilde.

>>281632384
he did ask "you think"

>>281634351
Hes 100% wrong because he doesn't understand war. War as a cultural phenomina that reverberates the ages is a completely seperate thing that is created by the people engaged in doing it. they are like your writers and movie actors and directors that understand film making from within the industry of film. They exist in a closed system of ideology, common practice, and services.

However actual warfare almost never has anything to do with that. Wars are almost always about protecting or eliminating something or someone in order to ensure a lack of reprisal. The people who are paying the money for the protection or the pre-emptive strike don't care about war or ideology. Theyre just purchasing an ends regardless of means. and so naturally any situation which is financed entirely on the morally unscrupulous who will do anything to win will result in an industry that rapidly adopts and pays for results that have nothing to do with what the actual professionals have come to idealize or represent in their "craft"

You can move on from war and film into video games and gacha, where the goal of selling time wasting and gambling has been brought to the extreme. no matter where you look the money changers and yids who are bankrolling this stuff don't have any investment in an outcome any more than a film investor or game investor cares about how the product looks. only that it sells. only that they get their return

And it works as it has done historically even without jews. Lets take mobile dolls out of the equation. Instead I develop a magic technology that lets you draw cards and summon real hard light illusions to do battle with using the rules of a card game. these guys allow you to challenge giants and protect the people you love and care about or destroy the people you abhor. or you can be given a dull antique sword and gun and try and fight everyone using those decks with nothing but your frail body. in the end, it's results that matter.

>>281634725
I like that he's not afraid to just play up the edgelord 90s cool shit
Deathscythe is clearly trying too hard, but it still ends up being the coolest of the 5 Gundams

Duo also sets himself apart from his comrades by being the only one who actually feels like a real human being and not an autistic robot

>>281635153
Why are we bringing Yu-Gi-Oh! into this all of a sudden?

>>281633824
That explains an awful lot. Just finished the show, I only remember bits and pieces from when I was a kid.
Gunna watch Endless Waltz now, I enjoyed my time with it and I liked the musical chairs aspect of swapping gundams constantly.

>>281634321
I loved how Gundams were treated like actual war weapons and not special suits that have to be permanently linked to specific characters.

>>281635365
because its something people think is "cool" and involves utilizing a bunch of inherently disposable weapons that are mostly autonomous in an artificial and contorted conflict, just like real war.

people need to accept that chess matches between factions is the final, most civilized form of war. Add holograms or fancy graphics if you want

>>281635365
His point is that it's the epitome of stylized war. If Treize existed in the YGO universe he would absolutely be a duelist and probably one of the best.

>>281634351
>talk it out
>"I think your people should cede all your land and resources to us and then either become our slaves or kill yourself. If you refuse our demands it's you who is prolonging this war. Just avoid all this needless bloodshed and surrender"
>"No."
>"Negotiations have broken down because the other side is unwilling to negotiate. Oh well back to war"

>>281633824
Wasn't scenario for first 40 episodes written by one guy during one week?

>>281635483
yeah honestly my favorite part of the series is when Heero and Trowa are using the Mercurius and Vayeate as a team, because the gundams were getting refitted for space warfare or something like that

Those suits fit them. Awesome designs too. Also all the times they had to temporarily hop in grunt suits, I think Wufei even piloted an Aries for a little while but I might be misrememering that.

>>281631568 (OP)
Is that the
>I came here to laugh at you
guy?

>>281634253
damn right
fax

I liked the autistic rivalry between Wufei and Treize
like Wufei would fight his way through an army, in his Gundam, just to get to Treize who's in a mansion/palace
crash his gundam through the wall
then hop out of the cockpit, with a sword
to challenge treize to a sword fight

that's amazing

>>281636582
apologies for the dub

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPYELqfVdgo

>>281634505
UC is just perfect between drab and boring, like Wing, and loud and gaudy, like SeeD. That’s why they’re the best.
>>281634507
I mean not likely, Amuro didn’t end up with the highest kill count at the end of the 1 year war, he was number 2. A random GM ace was number 1, but he was in the shit the whole war.

>>281634507
Leos kind of suck in space, even the "Space Model" Leos were basically just a booster pack strapped onto the regular thing
So probably not
but in Wing's universe they're a really reliable workhorse that basically only gets outdone by the Gundams and their magic alloy that gives them plot armor, after a 20+ year long service history of being THE mobile suit of choice for any serious military force

>>281635153
The thing is that you're assuming there's two groups of people there, and the group truly running the show is an autistic efficient cold hard logical machine. And they're not.
You're talking about the thing on paper, not on practice. On practice people get stupidly autistic about the methods and the aesthetics and the higher you go up the ladder the more the people get obsessed with those.

>>281637680
I always liked the airplane engineering phrase "if it looks wrong, it probably flies wrong"
entire multi-billion dollar defense contracts for new jets have been won or lost based on aesthetics

>>281637780
Exactly.
The ends justify the means, but in the same way, the how matters as much as the end result if not even more.
It's all about vibes.

>>281637680
>>281637780
>The thing is that you're assuming there's two groups of people there, and the group truly running the show is an autistic efficient cold hard logical machine. And they're not.
I never said they were. I said they have a specific behavior profile. They aren't cold or efficient, they're unscrupulous. they aren't beholden to the idea of a national military or anything of that nature. they will buy anything and everything as long as they feel they are going to get their return. Even if the decision is as stupid and predictably self defeating as a fish biting into a wormy hook, it doesn't change the fact that the motivations of the people who pay to have the army around is fundamentally different from the people who take money to be or run an army.

>>281637856
And I repeat.
Those people aren't machines. They have different motivations, different investments, sure, but people are people at the end of the day, and they have their own autistic hang-ups about how things should be done too. Hell, if anything, they are twice as autistic since they're the ones with the fuck-you money to get away with their autism. Because that's the other thing to take into account, how autism about the methods is a luxury very few can truly afford.

>>281637844
exactly, you are initiated
strong is beautiful

>>281637891
>Those people aren't machines.
you cant just make up a bunch of nonsense i didn't say and repeatedly told you i didn't say and then claim you deboonked me retard.

>>281636044
yes
he is the Big Zam

>>281634144
The funny thing is that whether you believe Wu Fei is right about women or not, he's actually just coping about his dead wife.

>>281639524
every single character in wing is coping about something to be fair

>>281634546
in the manga zecks removed the self detonate from wing ew and hero didn't feel comfortable using a suit an enemy repaired in general

>>281634351
https://youtu.be/hZJRJpbGkG4?si=SouAFJ9FS4dqDo0L

>>281634529
it's actually happening though. FT is gonna make a ton of money with their toys.

>>281639684
oh yeah IIRC that was the whole thing
wing was trashed at the moment and Zechs offered to have it repaired to full spec
they started fixing it but then Heero was like
>nah this doesn't feel right this feels like charity, because he feels bad about my broken arm and wants it to be a "fair fight"
>fuck this guy I'm using Heavyarms

>>281631568 (OP)
He is believable

HOLY BASED

>>281631568 (OP)
I believe in him

>>281632566
>warmonger loses his stomach for it once it's not fun and glamorous anymore
fuck treize
ooooh it's different when a drone does it?
it's more valuable when a person actually dies?
fuck you

I liked Wing because of cool mech but I was a kid when I watched it and didn't understand anything. is it actually good, story-wise?

>>281643243
the story isn't anything that deep but it's fun enough
it tries to do some interesting things with the ideas of what it means to fight a war, and what it means to be a soldier

Treize is proof that people simp for beautiful people, men or women

>>281643344
>people like attractive people
I don't think we needed Treize to teach us this

>>281633782
This, Trieze is the audience, that's why he's sympathetic, not because he's a good person.

>>281635483
I would say that's far from true in Wing.

That's how mobile suits and Gundam is treated in the original series. In this they are super powered super weapons. Look at how that clip ends "we won't die in such a low-caliber fight". Fucking really?

>>281634253
By series do you mean Gundam Wing or the franchise?

>>281643753
franchise
tallgeese is king

>>281643538
>"we won't die in such a low-caliber fight". Fucking really?
that quote isn't him brushing off the fight as unimportant, you have to watch the episodes leading up to that duel to get what he means
that entire duel with Heero is just both of them being kind of prideful and retarded
Tallgeese isn't back up to spec yet and Zechs and Heero are both having a pride-off
Heero's arm is broken, Wing is out of comission, but both of them also realize they aren't going to get another chance to duke it out like this so they decide to just be selfish and retarded about it and have a little duel that, more or less, doesn't mean anything
it's literally just boys being boys, which is why the whole fight gets interrupted by Relena jumping in the middle and telling them
>hey retards are you dont touching tips yet? because this isn't a serious fight and you both know it

Zechs isn't saying that it's a low-stakes fight, or that they CAN'T die in it. He's saying they WON'T die in it, because it's a major sidebar from both of their actual fates.

Treize was absolutely right. And just about zero of you seem to understand why, even if his point was spelled out to exhaustion during the series:

War is tragic—yes. It’s bad when people die in war, and it would be best if we could live in rainbow land with only love and fields of honey bunny waterfalls. However, in our world, war is inevitable. As long as humans are humans, and unable to perfectly understand each other, war will happen because conflict will happen. Now—given that conflict/war is inevitable—removing human beings from war is an unnatural, ignoble, unforgivable cowardice that can only give rise to degeneracy and abuse. Even more than there already is, in war. At no point does Treize argue that the loss of life is not tragic, or that leaders are infallible and always noble. He understands that people die tragically in war and that leaders are corrupt and gross. His point is that: if you remove the human cost from war, then there is even less incentive for wars to end or to never happen to begun with, since leaders don’t have to face pressure from an incensed public, or pain from loss, as they would otherwise have to when waging a war—plus then, also, perhaps more importantly to Treize: you’re taking away from humans something that is innately theirs, as a *tool for understanding*. War is bad and terrible and it happens when people don’t understand each other but—if we didn’t have war—the alternative would not be the land of rainbows and honey bunny waterfalls, the alternative would be endless, never-resolved conflict. War, through loss, helps humans resolve their conflicts. Helps them reach understanding in pain. But if you remove the human cost, then all you have is money. Economics. An economy of war. And a mutilated humanity that has lost something important. A part of itself. Ugly, but human.

That was Treize’s point. And thats why he called it beautiful. Because he loved humanity so much that he even loved the ugly parts.

>>281633360
>>281633741
>>281633824
I thought that it was clear even though it was brief. Zechs got severely blackpilled about Relena surrendering to the Romefellers, the same organization that toppled the Sanc Kingdom and Oz, so he concluded that earth should be destroyed if it were to come under their control again.

Keep in mind that Relena was still in space, so he wouldn't have killed her if colonydropped Earth.

Does Wufei ever find out about Treize's part in the attack on his colony that lead to his wife's death

>>281634386
It was well designed, not to flashy but also mobile. It took down a Gundam in ep 1.

>>281644194
Milliardo, on the other hand, was an idealist. Unlike Treize—who believed war should be embraced as another part of humanity—Milliardo believed war *could be* stopped. Even that it *should be* stopped, in order to stop loss of life. It’s the conflict of an idealist versus a realist. However, Milliardo can’t seem to find an answer to Treize’s challenges. He also understands that people only learn the harm of war through pain. And so, he decides he should give humanity a war so bad, they will never forget the scar, and the pain, and the loss. He wants to mutilate humanity in a more literal way than the Rommefeller foundation did—to Treize’s eyes. Heero’s answers to all these problems, is to believe in the future. And the Zero System is there as the bridge towards this answer. The pragmatic Heero believes in humanity (or Relena does), so the future he sees has hope—but the idealist Milliardo has stopped believing in humanity, so the future he sees is all darkness. Heero has squared Milliardo’s circle—idealism is good, after all, but you must be hopeful. Boring, cynical nihilism straight-up loses to Treize and his warrior code.

>>281643222
One death is a tragedy, 1 million is a statistic, a billion drones lost is an expense report.

>>281632566
>villain
Was he supposed to be one?

>>281632384
He can at least wager a ball park guess

This is the most retarded shit ever

Where should one start getting into Gundam?

>>281647631
Quattre is a retard what else is new.

>>281648629

The "UC":

79 > Zeta > ZZ > CCA

Then various OVAs that fill in side stories around that mainline.

Then AUs like Wing, G, Turn-A.

THEN if you're not sick of the franchise you can look at stuff past the 2000s (Seed, 00, IBO, GReco, etc.)

Avoid anything modern that tries to revisit UC (Origin, Hathaway, Island). They're all trash.

>>281631568 (OP)
i believe

>>281631568 (OP)
I believe... in love
https://youtu.be/zpAQEHNtxyU?si=5CYkPQBOH23t4FKT

>>281643434
>This, Trieze is the audience, that's why he's sympathetic, not because he's a good person.
He understands war isn't something that will ever disappear and softening it with rituals and limitations is how you stop wanton massacre. He has an heavy emphasis on leaders leading in combat plus 1v1 dueling because it reduces damage and leaders that aren't on the front lines can just stampede people while avoiding the consequences of their own actions.

>>281631568 (OP)
To this day one of the best anime villains.

>>281632799
Well, he is a Char after all.

>>281643243
I was in the same boat as you, just finished rewatching it and realized I didn't know dick squat about the show. I thought Releena was annoying when I was a kid.
She's actually based as hell.

>>281644356
I was gonna mention romefeller but it's been I while since I watched wing so forgot about the whole sanc kingdom thing.

>>281651933
Yeah this. War is inevitable, may as well put some principles and dignity into the loss of human life instead of cowardly trying to circumvent it and letting lifeless robots destroy everything instead.
You take the human element out of it and you take out the point of war too. At some point you may as well just have a thumb war and get it over with instead of wasting resources, like
>>281635153
said

>>281648975
>Avoid anything modern that tries to revisit UC
I liked Thunderbolt...

>>281634725
Voted best male character of 1995.
And rightly so.

>>281652854
>youre wasting resources
according to who?
>but you could just decide who wins with a thumb war!!!!
so what if you lose? do you give up and die? war is fundamentally about destruction, of your enemies or those who simply stand in the way of your goals.

>>281652329
It's really hard to paint Treize as a villain.

>>281653970
This

>>281633824
>changed directors halfway through the show and a bunch of ideas they probably could've actually used in the show basically got tossed
It's funny how many times this has happened to the Gundam franchise specifically. Wing, 0083, and 08th MS Team all had it happen, if I remember right.

>>281633824
>a bunch of ideas they probably could've actually used in the show basically got tossed until they dug them up for the manga adaption years later
After reading the manga they should've kept those ideas buried.

>>281653970
Didn't he have a bunch of pacifists killed in the first half of the show?

>>281655972
It's really hard to paint Treize as a villain.

>>281637459
Talk about a power gap, geez.

>>281635819
I liked the half completed version where he looked like an evil genie.

>>281652764
The amount of Relena hatefics out there is utterly insane.
Women see a woman as based as her and instead of seeing her as a role model and elevating her as an icon they decide they hate her because she gets in the way of their fujo fantasies. Insane shit.

>>281644194
>>281644663
Excellent posts, Anon.

he was the prime example of an antagonist that didn't feel so campy with their attitude. he knew he was doing fucked up shit and rolled with it, didn't wax poetics that much besides stating some class is needed if we're gonna kill each other. i can't really fault him beyond any other usual evil tyrant that wants power or thinks they're the ubermensch.

>>281656828
>i can't really fault him beyond any other usual evil tyrant that wants power or thinks they're the ubermensch
Well that's the thing, Treize DESERVES power. He's the kind of person that fuedalism or dictatorships are theoretically built for. He IS the ubermensch, and he proves it continuously.
Treize is the Napoleonic Ideal. He deserves to be King.

>>281648720
I know I shouldn't be surprised by that far into the series but its like anytime I think he's said the dumbest shit possible, he keeps talking.

>>281657502
it's a shame because Sandrock is a pretty cool gundam

>>281647631
its smart

How many times did Heero end up self-destructing by the end of Wing?

>>281658120
I think once and at least 2 other times he was strongly thinking about it but got interrupted.
Always got his ass kicked and thrown around while in the Wing gundam though. Only started being a real threat once he got Zero.

>>281658120
off the top of my head he self-destructs wing twice, first when he can't get it back after the failed earth landing, and later in the snow (can't remember when) when he jumps outta the cockpit last minute

Which of the Gundam Pilots had the best combat performance/record?
I feel like it's Duo, I can't remember him ever really getting his ass kicked too badly

>>281659075
probably duo yeah but only because he never got matched up against many strong opponents
the most skilled pilots are clearly Heero, Trowa, and Wufei in that order

I think the really amazing thing about Gundam Wing is its philosophical overtones. I've talked for hours with my friends about what Heero and Treize's conversation on the meaning of war (episodes 36-38) really MEANS about WAR, and we've gotten to thinking that maybe, just maybe, it's not about war at all.

Gundam Wing makes us think on such high levels that sometimes I orgasm spontaneously when discussing it. It's miles from that ridiculous Tomino super robot trash, it makes Ideon look like a goddamned Playmobil fire engine. Fucking Ide Gauge. The Zero System is about life, man. That's as real as it gets. It's about your MIND and your SOUL.

I wish I had pretty, long hair like Zechs-chan. That Charles is such a pale imitation.

>>281648975
>Zeta
Dont fall for this overrated meme.

>>281656828
>he was the prime example of an antagonist that didn't feel so campy with their attitude.
I think it helps that he actually 100% believes what he says.
When they first introduced him, I was expecting that he'd end up pulling some sort of treacherous move or end up being a non-combatant, but even when he ends up opposing Zechs, he still treats him like a friend and he actually ends up piloting his own mech near the end and being a fantastic pilot
I think that's one reason I didn't like Le Cresent in Seed as much: it felt like he was schemeing behind the scenes moreso, even if his flagship was techinically "on the frontlines", whereas both Zechs and Char end up being a lot more likeable because they're actually putting their lives on the line in their mobile suits

>>281653463
I like it too. Io Fleming is based as fuck.

>>281637844
>reads right to left
>pages rearranged left to right
mcfucking end yourself.

>>281634046
This scene really was the most based shit ever.
>kill me
>lol no

>>281634253
Tallgueese gives me feeling only the Sinanju can give too after all these years.

>>281636599
God, I hate WuFei dub. I can never understand how Americans can listen to it.

>>281643243
It's the Rose of Versailles of Gundam.

>>281632566
>"villain"
>wins

>>281661427
even the big anime dubbing companies at the time when it was first catching on in the states were basically a bunch of hobbyists trying their best
and for people who grew up with the dubs of all these shows it's all they ever knew so it just sounded right

>>281661368
jesus...
fucking kill yourself rn

>>281639642
Coping about clowns was a weird choice.

>>281661580
Be quiet, incel.