Thread 281749626

Is it just me or Archer is extremely OP?
Like he has tricks up his sleeve that could solo the entire holly grail war but he just doesn't do it.
He could solo Saber and Berserk hell he is the perfect counter for Gilgamesh.
Yet people want me to believe this guy is a mid tier servant?
Lol what?

>>281749626 (OP)
He literally got one-shotted by Saber.

>>281749658
She literally attacked by surprise while they were trying to save Shirou.
And she was attacking Rin he protected her.

>>281749626 (OP)
He is a petty childish loser.

>>281750173
He can't win because he would eclipse Shirou and Shirou only wins because he has his powers or outright copies him.

>>281749626 (OP)
Assuming we ignore the stupid gacha and its overinflated powerscaling, even in F/SN itself Archer is pretty low-tier. He gets outclassed by Saber, Berserker, Lancer, Gilgamesh (with armor), Caster (with full mana) and Kojiro. I'd say he's evenly matched with Rider, even when Sakura assumes ownership over her.

Archer's only advantage is that he has a bag of tricks, whether that's Rho Aias, Reality Marble expansion, or even Caliburn/Caladbolg. So he ends up being like True Assassin, where once everyone learns about Zabaniya, he becomes a trivial threat to the rest of the servants. Part of the reason why Archer seems so "OP" in F/SN is because Rin is a good master and knows how to utilize Archer to his strengths.

>>281750173
>>281750776
Just like every assassin servant he never uses his actual strengths properly and instead fights in the most retarded unga bunga matchups he isn't suited for

>>281750776
Eh no why he is seen as OP is because of all the absurd shit he can pull out of his ass.
>Technique that can defeat Saber in close quarters combat.
>Can kill Berserk 6-7 times while stalling for time (and not being a giga faggotcunt that only targets Illya like Gilgamesh)
>He can out shoot Gilgamesh
>He has a power that while not confirmed could kill Berserk 9 times in an instant.
>Caliburn that also kills him a bunch of times.
>Can project and use divine weapons as confirmed by multiple sources.
>Copies not only the weapon but can use the true name of the weapon and copy the "stats" of the OG user.

It's just absurd all the shit he can do.

>>281751012
It would be cool to see him in his other classes.
If I remember correctly he can be a saber, caster or berserk too.

>>281749626 (OP)
He's not OP, flexible yes but not OP.
Even he himself admits he'd be defeated by most servants in the HGW.
Archer at the very least is the most versatile servant.

>>281749626 (OP)
everything he copies is ranked down, and divine stuff shatters after one use
he gets even more heavily penalised for non-weaponry which is why he cant just project shields out of his ass
even if he projects weapons he still needs the ability to wield them, which is why his default weapons are archery and twin swords, honed by decades of practice and experience
the biggest flaw is that he's Archer, he's a lazy faggot that has no intention of winning

>>281752196
>even if he projects weapons he still needs the ability to wield them
He can also copy the skills and stats of the user of the weapon.
That's how Shirou manages to use nine lives and have the strength to wield the stone sword.

>>281751159
>Technique that can defeat Saber in close quarters combat.
When she has no mobility or motivation to win. She'd given up on life and was just carrying out Sakura's orders.
>Can kill Berserk 6-7 times while stalling for time (and not being a giga faggotcunt that only targets Illya like Gilgamesh)
We don't know how he accomplished it or if he tried to exploit Illya's presence, but I will agree that this is the most impressive thing he pulls off even if it's entirely off-screen.
>He can out shoot Gilgamesh
In the specific circumstance of having trapped him in UBW and he only matches him in firing speed of weapons.
>He has a power that while not confirmed could kill Berserk 9 times in an instant
No idea what you're referring to.
>Caliburn that also kills him a bunch of times
It only accomplished that after reuniting with Saber. It can't pull off that much when only Shirou/Archer wield it.
>Can project and use divine weapons as confirmed by multiple sources
No, he can only replicate certain ones under specific circumstances or with aid. He cannot produce the original faithfully without caveat. That's why Shirou's "Excalibur" was a crude and empty recreation. To use Extra as an example, Archer needs the materials to exist on his current layer of reality for him to get access to their production. Being on the Mooncell allowed him to make things he normally couldn't.
>Copies not only the weapon but can use the true name of the weapon and copy the "stats" of the OG user
He gets the minimum stats and capability to wield the weapon, but that doesn't mean he gets the full ability of the wielder. That's why he can't reproduce things like Cu Chulainn's use of Gae Bolg since it's a Noble Phantasm that needs the full power and technique of the original wielder.
He's extremely versatile, but literally every single thing you listed has additional caveats that are really fucking important when you look his capability as a whole. He's a definitive jack of all trades.

>>281752279
>That's how Shirou manages to use nine lives and have the strength to wield the stone sword
He's able to wield the stone sword because it's Archer's arm, Servant-level strength and all. Servants are, at minimum, 10x peak human physical ability with few exceptions. Archer's strength is below average for a knight-class Servant, but he's still dozens of times stronger than a human. He's got enough strength to swing the sword, and Shirou notes that the arm was just dragging him along when he used Nine Lives Blade Works.

>>281751159
Most of the stuff you're referring to regarding his projection magic is from Extraverse Archer, they are not applicable to F/SN or F/HA.

>Technique that can defeat Saber in close quarters combat.
Crane Wings is a party trick that only works if the enemy doesn't know it's coming and/or is easily overwhelmed by it. Dark Saber only gets defeated by it because her speed is significantly slower than regular Saber.

>Can kill Berserk 6-7 times while stalling for time
He's literally fighting to death and expanding all of his remaining mana, yet he's still unable to actually beat Berserker despite that. Rin is able to remove one his lives by using up all of her family gems, but I wouldn't say Rin is at a higher power level than a Servant just because she can kill Berserker once.

>He can out shoot Gilgamesh
We never see Archer and Gilgamesh fight, so whether or not Archer could survive the full wrath of Gilgamesh is questionable. He might have an easier time than Saber, but again, just because he could "theoretically" beat Gilgamesh doesn't mean that he's at a higher power level than all of the other servants.

>He has a power that while not confirmed could kill Berserk 9 times in an instant.
Shirou uses NLBW on Dark Herc, who is significantly weakened compared to regular Herc since he's injured and literally just a mindless zombie. If Archer could just pull out NLBW and kill Berserker, he would've done so in a prior route.

>Caliburn that also kills him a bunch of times.
Caliburn kills Berserker multiple times because Shirou swings the sword while it's being held by its true owner (Saber). In all other instances, both Shirou and Archer are only able to use a de-ranked version of Caliburn (excluding Nameless).

>>281751159
>Can kill Berserk 6-7 times while stalling for time
This is a complete asspull. He's already put on the backfoot dueling Lancer in one of the routes. How would he ever not get turned into paste immediately against Berserker, who severely outstats Lancer?