Thread 281918766

Why did he even do the rebuilds? How can someone ruin his own masterpiece like that?

>>281918766 (OP)
get over it you big baby

Money.

I mean rebuilds could have worked, but it should have been more extreme than EoE. Let the angels win or make things much, much worse than EoE. As it is, it's disappointing.

Why did he even do EoE? How can someone ruin his own masterpiece like that?

>>281918766 (OP)
He didn't ruin anything. The film is still there. But the Rebuilds were clearly made to take easy money from dumb otaku. It's EVA for dummies. That ending with Salaryman Shinji running happily with his hot, empty waifu is pathetically uncreative.

>>281918892
/thread

>>281918766 (OP)
He did it to sell merch and get funding for studio khara. People have been trying to psychoanalyze him for years but it ultimately just comes down to money

>>281918766 (OP)
They're supplementary and very good, particularly the last two

>>281919378
Filtered by one of the best directed and ground-breaking anime films of all time

>>281919506
the only good thing about the rebuilds were the new kaworu shots

>>281918766 (OP)
Is that a computer monitor with a Windows Vista/7 wallpaper in the background? This image is pretty old.

>>281918766 (OP)
What masterpiece did he ruin?

>>281919506
>Filtered by one of the best directed and ground-breaking anime films of all time
Watch more anime films, I beg you.

>>281919378
the rebuilds gave closure to many characters that were left floating in the void in the original version.
>I dont rike it
Well, thats up to you, if you dont like, or even despise the rebuilds, you can stay with the original series and EoE, enjoy that, and pretend the rebuilds dont exist, and that would be perfectly fine, just as many people pretend that secuels for their favorite IPs didnt exist, like:
>Terminator
>Matrix
>Star wars
>Star Trek
and a, sadly, an ever growing etc.

>>281918766 (OP)
He had a masterpiece?

>>281921961
/thread

>>281921811
>the rebuilds gave closure to many characters that were left floating in the void in the original version.
Not really an honest point since they aren't the same characters.

>>281918766 (OP)
Are the CRC settings of 3.0 and 4.0 ever coming out?

>>281919453
>>281919211
>>281918766 (OP)
Lazy cynics stay filtered

>>281918766 (OP)
Anno should be publicly skinned alive and castrated.

>>281918766 (OP)
>Why did he even do the rebuilds?
To undo EoE bad ending that undid NGE good ending. He went full circle.

I felt satisfied after Rebuild. That it was finally fucking over.

>>281918766 (OP)
That's the thing, evangelion was a team effort, he would never damage something he loves (gundam gwuux shit was pure tomino wankery) so this proves evangelion is just a source of money for him and nothing more.

>>281921811
I don't like it precisely because it's uncreative, safe, made for people who think art is mathematics and need everything to have a "closure".

>>281922833
>To undo EoE bad ending that undid NGE good ending.
Watch it again.

>>281918766 (OP)
Evangelion is not a masterpiece.

>>281923522
>That it was finally fucking over
https://xcancel.com/eva30th_fes/status/1874108265413697807
>"EVANGELION:30+; 30th ANNIVERSARY OF EVANGELION" will be held at Yokohama Arena in February 2026! Dates: February 21st (Sat) - February 23rd (Mon, National Holiday), 2026 Venue: Yokohama Arena Details will be announced in due course.
>Rebuild-like title
>Rebuild font
>Rebuild impact design image
No mockery, I just feel sad for you.

>>281924697
The "omedetou" is what happens in his mind. EoE shows what happens in real life after that. Rebuild is just fanservice for those who grew up watching Disney movies.

>>281925227
>The "omedetou" is what happens in his mind
>EoE shows what happens in real life after that
You understood jack shit about what eva is about or what Anno was trying to do.

I'm neither of those anons, but the TV and movie endings should be looked at independently from each other. A detail that everyone seems to ignore is that in the TV ending Gendo is the one that causes third impact.

>>281918766 (OP)
>not creative
>1 tricky donkey

>>281918766 (OP)
While the origin for that pic is this:
https://xcancel.com/khara_inc2/status/1032864911993360384

This repost has something interesting:
https://www.instagram.com/kinoiglu/p/DIxwbt6T_a6/
>Director
Anno Hideaki loves Parm.

>"I usually take a bath for 1 to 2 hours,
then have 'Parm time' (eating Parm to cool off and checking emails) until the sweat dries.
In total, I end up spending nearly 3 hours in the bath.
>As always, he has a mysteriously high level of femininity."
>- a tip from his wife, Anno Moyoco.

>>281918766 (OP)
>ruin
Malding. Seething. Coping. Roping.

>>281918766 (OP)
They are just harmless action movies with a good soundtrack, Anon. You can still enjoy them while acknowledging that the 26 episode TV series and EoE are the only things that matter in terms of story and message.

>>281918766 (OP)
Money
/thread

He’s more of a producer than a director.

>>281928188
>TV series and EoE are the only things that matter in terms of story and message
RoE only drives Anno's point as hard as possible. Anyone who didn't understand RoE misunderstood what came before.

>>281918766 (OP)
The first two started out as him trying to christen his new studio and show that Eva could be "retold", which I guess is admirable at least. He absolutely checked out after that. The last two movies are an absolute trainwreck compared to the first, but his other projects like Shin Godzilla were still amazing, proving that he had the ability but not the motivation.

>>281918766 (OP)
He gave up by the third one, other than that, money.

>>281921961
Kare Kano
>>281927583
moe

>>281924697
Hmmm. I had not noticed that both, Mari and Shinji had their arms opened while they are traversing the stairs, almost like they were forming crosses... maybe Im just seeing things.
>>281924317
>made for people who think art is mathematics and need everything to have a "closure".
No m/a/n, several other media has the same, like the book Animal farm. I like it knowing how and /or where some of the characters ended. Always felt bad about, lets say, Touji's sister, Ken ken or even pen pen. Through the decades, Eva seemed to told stories that Anno wanted and then stories that people wanted. correct me if im wrong, but the rebuilds finally tell the story that Anno wanted to tell. O get it why so many people see its like Lucas's Star wars and just for the money motivation, but while Lucas modifies the original trilogy, then gave the public the prequel trilogy in a attempt of getting more young audiences (ergo more money for the IP), the Rebuilds gave the fans closure, ending, a "this is it" for the IP.

No one pulled out the quotes but Anno basically said
>As an Otaku I appreciate that fans will look at what we're doing as selling out
>but I'm going to do it anyway because I think "we" deserve money

Someone can look up the exact Nipponese verbiage if they want I really don't care enough to anymore.

The content and Anno's message is still the same: take a shower & go outside, you stinky chuuni otaku. He even doubled down on the gnostic jibberish in the final movie and they were just saying a bunch of shit that sounds cool but all Shinji & Gendo were really doing was playing with their toy robots on a film set.

>>281930730
>gave the public the prequel trilogy in a attempt of getting more young audiences (ergo more money for the IP)
Incorrect, though that always gets memed on, Return of the Jedi's ending is there to set up that the prequels will be about Anakin.

>>281930922
>He even doubled down on the gnostic jibberish in the final movie
It also has bizarre Mesopotamian imagery like the Innana or Ereshkigal(the Burney Relief), Unit 02 turns into a lion precisely because Innana sometimes is depicted as a lion or has one. The lion being a symbol of power.

>>281931081
>imagery like the Innana or Ereshkigal
*imagery like Inanna or Ereshkigal

Also, the Inanna expy seems not to be Asuka, but Yui.

>>281930816
selling out compared to what? eva was always commercial

You only hate the Rebuilds simply because of Mari.
Your unbridled rage at her amuses me.
You don't get it. Mari IS LITERALLY EVA. She is the most important and the best part of the Rebuilds. The Rebuilds are objectively good.
That's it. She IS the series.
She makes the series, she is the point of the series.

Literally look at it with Anno lens: Mari didn't necessarily save Shinji, yes, but Mari represents him "moving on" and "becoming an adult".
It happens to all of us. It doesn't have to be a woman. There is always that one event, a "Mari" in our lives, sudden, unexpected, falls in our laps, that makes us realize it is time to be an adult and move on from our lives, face reality head on. Its just that in Anno's case it was her wife
Mari brought him back to reality. Shinji was losing himself and it was Mari that gave his life back its color.
Literally one of the best scenes in Evangelion and its a fitting end to the Rebuids.
Only EoE is better.
That's all there it to it.
Honestly, I will never understand the hate people give for this movie.
I mean, its a movie. Of course there would be loose ends. Like Mari's characterization, for example, which is a shame but it can't be helped and can be expounded on more if Anno would go back to Eva.

>>281930730
>Hmmm. I had not noticed that both, Mari and Shinji had their arms opened while they are traversing the stairs, almost like they were forming crosses... maybe Im just seeing things.
Your average Evafag, folks.

>>281931490
Babe, wake up! New pasta just arrived.

>>281931490
KILL THEM NOW, SWARM OF BEES STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING STING BET YOU WANNA "REACH" FOR AN ANTI BEE REPELENT NOW HUH

>>281918766 (OP)
He improved it by destroying shipwars and self-inserters forever.

>>281931490
>Shinji was losing himself and it was Mari that gave his life back its color.
What are you talking about? By the time Mari rescues him in the Golgotha Object, he was already calm. And by the next scene, he's clearly happy before Mari removes the choker. The only meaningful conversation they had was when Mari convinced him to get in the eva at the end of 2.0.

>>281919506
>>281931490

bait

>>281931531
>>281930730
this is your mind on Evangelion brainrot

The whole point of Evangelion was to tell people to go outside. No one listened so he tried to say it again.

>>281921961
Shin Godzilla.

>>281931490
Based Marifag

>>281919453
>>281918766 (OP)

Yeah, seriously. The whole point of the Rebuilds (and why they have a different spelling in Japan) was to be a version of Eva Anno owned, not Gainax.

But then with Gainax falling apart he got the rights to the original Eva back too, thus the big direction change starting from the third movie.

>>281928265
That says Oshii and modern Oshii hates everything and everybody. He says Miyazaki can't direct

>>281932162
Wasn't the ownership under Khara's control since 2006? And the trademark transferred back from Gainax to Khara in June 2024?

>>281918766 (OP)
nighmare mode: the rebuilds were his masterpiece

>>281933365
he ruined the rebuilds, checkmate.

>>281918766 (OP)
He eats like shit. Did not read your thread BTW

>>281918766 (OP)
Just as retards like george lucas, kanye west, and now hideo kojima, money and yes-men.

>>281918766 (OP)
Because he is dumb.

>>281918766 (OP)
He doesn't know what he wants.

>>281918766 (OP)
To get money to fund his dogshit Shin projects

>>281918766 (OP)
25&26 is my favorite ending. Everything else is fanservice.

The manga did the "" rebuild"" thing so much better it's insane.

>>281918766 (OP)
he made one good thing and needed more money but doesn't have the drive or talent to make anything else of note. if i didn't see people talk about the rebuilds on here i would forget entirely that they exist

>>281918766 (OP)
Because NGE isn't a masterpiece and even he's tired of you retards wanking it.

>>281919283
/thread

I know people revere EoE but it is in fact a shit retcon.

>>281925227
Go back to evageeks retard. That theory is just fanwank.

>>281927018
Evageeks has poisoned the minds of too many people. It's amazing how retarded fanwank about "concurrency" is taken for granted.

>>281927583
Going from barely ever bathing at all to this is pretty crazy.
Moyoco saved this guy, he'd be dead by now without her I think.

>>281932162
The rights to Eva transferred to khara with Anno, Gainax only kept the merchandising rights to the original series.
Those rights were always meant to go back to Khara eventually, the loan Anno gave Yamaga to "save" Gainax had the condition that they'd go back to Khara 1 year earlier than planned.
The change direction of Eva Q had nothing to do with any rights.

>finally Anno has his own studio, Evabux and can make anything he wants
>makes Shin remakes of Godzilla, Ultraman, Kamen Rider and a new Gundumb anime
huh.

>>281918766 (OP)
One trick pony

>>281928500
No one cares about your dumb action movies.

>>281918766 (OP)
how can someone fix it so well?*
corrected your typo
you must actually stupid not to see how amazing the new ones are
anno himself said he wanted to properly make what he wanted but no this retard on the internet thinks he is better than anno-sensei.

Same with the retards spamming salaryman shinji, not understanding the bigger picture

>>281919378
holy shit you are actually retarded and cant see even 1cm deeper than what is explicitly shown to you on screen
>>281919506
this

>>281937369
>Same with the retards spamming salaryman shinji, not understanding the bigger picture
People whining about the "salaryman Shinji" understood absolutely nothing about the epilogue (to the point they are getting the opposite message from it), meaning they likely understood nothing about eva in the first place (and probably got the opposite message all along).

>>281937534
true

>>281937369
>you must actually stupid
ESL. Opinion discarded

>>281937534
NGE - Opening up to people may hurt, but it's worth it in the end
EoE - if you sit in your NEETcave, son't be surprised if your world goes to hell around you.
Rebuilds - A big titty GF will fall into your lap, and show you the pleasures of wage slavery.

>>281937965
>Campus Apocalypse
Consider: Nunsuka and Nunyanami

>>281937713
malding

>>281937965
>I didn't understand anything about eva, lemme show you!

>>281938469
Then show us your wisdom, O sage /a/non.

>>281937965
this is so generalized it pretty much misses the point

>>281937965
Most people rejected his message. They hated anon because he told them the truth.

>>281918766 (OP)
To spite his fans. He hates his fans because he want to be taken seriously and regards Evankekon to be childish mecha trash. Unfortunately for him, the universe has a twisted sense of irony. Every attempt at shitting up the franchise only made the fans praise him more.

>>281937965
Why is this all about NEETs?

>>281939949
Anno and crew writing what they know best.

>>281931995
Everybody instead turned it into "anime was a mistake" for some reason

>>281918766 (OP)
>ruin his own masterpiece
He's never made a masterpiece

>>281918766 (OP)
Wasn't the whole message of the movies "why the fuck are you still obsessing over this tripe, you could have went outside and actually talked to people".
I'm more surprised he got funding for the entire script.

I still can't really understand why Mari paired with Shinji, it was nonsensical and ooc.

>>281918766 (OP)
When he started production on the Rebuilds in 2005 he imagined doing a retelling of the tv show with a better budget and cinematic presentation. He soon learned that he wasn't interested in telling the same story again. Then he learned that he couldn't tell that story even if he wanted to. So he ended up telling the story that he could. And it was good.

>>281934652
>he made one good thing
Gunbuster? Nadia? KareKano? Shin Gojira?

>>281918766 (OP)
He was under Abe's orders to reintegrate otaku into society.

>>281918766 (OP)
He wanted to prove to his fanboys that he actually was a hack

>>281918766 (OP)
After gaining success, he was probably embarrassed to be associated with people who sympathized with Shinji. Just a different state of mind.

>>281944758
>I still can't really understand why Mari paired with Shinji
It's symbolic, Mari is an intrusive presence in the eva universe, she's not shackled by it. Anno is telling his audience to go look for happiness outside of eva/anime.
>it was nonsensical and ooc
That would be Asuka.

>>281945283
>And it was good.
Hahahah. No.

>>281937405
there's nothing to see, you're a deluded fucktard. anno successfully deceived you into thinking there was something in that shitty void.
>this
it's shit

>>281935912
That was the hype for being the "last" Evangelion. Nobody gives a shit after the screenings ended.

>>281945283
>When he started production on the Rebuilds in 2005 he imagined doing a retelling of the tv show with a better budget and cinematic presentation
From the very first shots of 1.0, it's obvious Anno planned for it to be a sequel (which was the only way it could happen since Shinji is Anno's avatar and Anno himself cannot go back in time).

>>281918766 (OP)
There was noting to ruin because evangelion was always overrated trash
>erm did you know mecha plots are unrealistic
>erm did you know the character archetypes you like would be mentally ill in real life
woooooooow what? really? no way?! such a thought provoking series
and the protagonist loses and everyone effectively dies? 10/10 who wants to have fun while watching anime anyways

>>281947266
>Blood stain
In a deleted scene of 2.0 it showed it was the blood coming from the experiment of Rebuild's Second Impact. Granted, deleted scenes are probably not canon.

How can he do S1E1? How can s9meine ruin their masterpiece?

The biggest mistake was us never getting an entire OVA of Rei attempting to make tea

>>281947733
hwat?

>>281947266
From what I gather, it is a sequel but reality is modified for each loop. That's why not only the characters are different, but the physics and all kinds of events. Kaworu is the only one aware, although Seele and Gendo might also be aware. Gendo and Shinji definitely become aware once they access the Golgotha Object. Shinji subconsciously might remember some of the events of the past loops which is why his name is in the "Book of Life" as mentioned by Kaworu towards the end of the last one.

>>281948970
Also, the Golgotha(place of the skull in Semitic Aramaic) Object is a metaphor for Anno's mind.

>>281947266
Where is that bottom right page or poster from?
>It is a story of the will to move forward, even if only a little.
Is it? In EOE Shinji gives up and only rejects Instrumentality once he realizes how boring it is telling Rei to undo it.

>>281918766 (OP)
>Why did he even do the rebuilds? How can someone ruin his own masterpiece like that?

Money

Plus he gets to remake Eva where his waifu Asuka isn't a total failure, and dunk on Rei as revenge for her shitting on Asuka in the 90's.

It's his franchise, he does as he pleases, my only problem with this is the fanbase that imagines Anno and EVA as incorruptible.

>>281931490
Because Mari exists in these films instead of a proper series worth of run time, and because even inside of that limited runtime she was having her characterization scenes all cut in favor of memberberry scenes from the original, she is a total non character.
Even you can only describe her in the abstract, a meta reading of real life real life on top of Mari. She's a non character.
And she's not even Shin Eva's biggest offender when it comes to a lack of characterization. The unjustified novel characterization of the legacy characters is.

>Mari that gave his life back its color.
I know at least one spammer spams that a lot but that's not what that scene is about.
What Mari hitting the water dispels isn't Shiji's personal lack of color and so your reading of the scene here isn't right. Mari hits the water and the production materials which have literally taken over the screen vanish. That's the symbolism, so work out what that means from that not a metaphor you've projected.

The ending to the rebuild was better than the grimdark ending of EoE

The Rebuilds could have been good if:

- they continued where 2.0 left off
- they didn't use 3.0 to include kaworu too much in 4.0 and spent more time on the cast and setting
- they brought out Rei and Shinji right away
- they have NERV deal with the fallout of the near impact, the world isn't destroyed but the area surrounding NERV is wrecked
- the calamity and pressure is used to delve deeper into the characters, some break
- 4.0 continues with the broken cast, and returns them to their NGE selves, then throws some healing in there

But most importantly of all, it should avoid 3.0's and 3.0+1.0's plot hole nonsense and attempt to feel the fantastic setting feel as grounded as possible.

One of the biggest mistakes 3.0 did was dropping Rei half-way and building a setting where the characters all blame Shinji for something they not only partook in themselves for years, but actively cheered and goaded on.
Literally nothing 3.0+1.0 did could ever rectify those mistakes.

>>281949600
Sure, if you're a fetus.

>>281918766 (OP)
He's a hypocrite that folded when money was offered. For a person who gnawed and thrashed against the otaku fandom, he immediately bent the knee and now evangelion merch sits next to anpan merch all over Japan. Absolutely disgusting.

>>281949966
Anno always whored out Eva, though.

It's just disappointing that he's all pretentious about it, and what's even more disappointing is that so-called "eva fans" lap it up.

>>281949882
>- they have NERV deal with the fallout of the near impact, the world isn't destroyed but the area surrounding NERV is wrecked
Proper Third Impact which was caused by a remote controlled Mark 6 as shown in -46 is what destroyed the world not Near Third, also they could be called Third Impact part one and part two.

A big thing is that the preview at the end of 2.0 promised that 3.0 was a story about mankind fighting back as in we would see all the important characters fighting their own way and probably eventually joining forces: Kaji, Misato, Asuka, Mari, Kaworu not they already forming a group.

>>281950259
>not they already forming a group.
*not them already forming a group.
As in, the final version starts with them already together.

>>281930661
>Kare Kano
based Kare Kino enjoyer

>>281950259
>>281950315
Well, it's the same, drop the whole "world destroyed" thing.

Secondly, the "second third impact" thing only makes things so much worse, and makes 3.0 dumber in retrospect. In fact this is unavoidable, the level of idiocy behind 3.0 is unfixable.

If 3.0 was at least good and not a "let's shit on shinji and rei" movie written by asuka fans, then it's likely Rebuild would still be talked about today for more than it's being a clusterfuck.

>>281945103
what did Anno mean by this?

>>281918766 (OP)
When was the last time this hack made anything original? It’s all sequels and remakes

>>281918766 (OP)
why did he buy so many? what a fat fuck

>>281950529
>Secondly, the "second third impact" thing only makes things so much worse, and makes 3.0 dumber in retrospect. In fact this is unavoidable, the level of idiocy behind 3.0 is unfixable.
Exactly, also because it makes Shinji more innocent if the one that caused the Earth's destruction was Seele or Gendo controlling Mark 6 instead.

>>281918766 (OP)
He once said something along the lines that creators lose their spark once they get married or love. How appropriate.

>>281951547
It also makes Shinji's story entirely, completely and thematically irrelevant, doesn't it?

I mean, he's still fully innocent even if there wasn't a second impact, but damn.

>>281952044
>>281951547
>the most heroic, bravest and most beautiful thing Shinji ever did in the history of Evangelion
>THIS FUCKING SUCKS ACTUALLY

What did willy and Anno mean by this?

>No kenkenfag
Based thread?

>>281952871
Kenken impact is eternal. But mention it rare, as you-know-who will appear.

>>281923522
>>281924989
This.
>thinking it will ever be over
>thinking they wont be remaking evangelion even after Anno is dead

It will NEVER be over.

Every second Anno is not making Evangelion, he is losing money. Even if he didn't care about the money, you bet your ass everyone around him does. Like crack addicts they're just begging for another score, another hit. Anno will cave.

I just wonder what the everliving fuck happened after 2.0, who the hell looked at the script and said "yeah this is fire, ship it"?.

>>281953412
Anno doesn't have children so probably some nephew Anno never met will inherit Khara.

>>281952220
>>281951547
>Shinji busts out EVA01
>saves Misato milliseconds before she's vaporized,
>wrecks the Angel the pilots failed to take down
>saves Rei as Misato is basedfacing with joy
>saves mankind from an untimely angel impact end

and as thanks

>they don't bother busting him out for 14 years
>when they do they all hate on him for saving their asses(??)
>Kaworu, who knows the impact was started elsewhere says it's Shinji's fault(????)
>No one tells him shit when he asks for explanation
>they tell him he can't pilot eva when he volunteers

>they let him pilot the eva after shitting themselves and letting gendo do nothing and still winning (??????)

What exactly was the process behind writing the clusterfuck that became the Rebuilds post you can not advance? Is this covered somewhere in interview books?

>>281954501
No idea, but wouldn't be surprised if Anno had a mental breakdown at some point, threatened with killing himself once he came up with the final version of 3.0's unintelligible script in the case the staff didn't want to follow it.

There's that one book that was sold for a limited time in an Anno exhibition.

>>281954501
An anon once suggested during the Eva manga dailies that Anno was trying to prove he could write "better" versions of central elements from some of the bigger spin offs and it became this shambling monstrosity

>>281918766 (OP)
>Why did he even do the rebuilds? How can someone ruin his own masterpiece like that?
I just took it as Anno taking another shot at his work, whether as a soft reboot or as a meta sequel series. Sure he misses in a LOT of parts, but it's interesting to look at in how it reflects on the series as a whole and the fandom that formed around it over the years.

>>281954501
>they don't bother busting him out for 14 years
I think Nerv must have shot him into space before Wille rebelled, then he was intercepted when his giant space coffin orbited close enough again.

>>281921811
>gave closure to many characters
Not Asuka though.

>>281931490
Oh look, the crackhead’s here.

>>281956384
How is it closure if she was already living with him? Elaborate on your post.

>>281922833
>EoE bad ending
read Kant

>>281954501
>Is this covered somewhere in interview books?
Speaking of books the reason I couldn't find that exhibition book it's because it is directly called:
"Hideaki Anno Exhibition"
A 500 page biography, here're some pics while a retard wanks over Anno:
https://xcancel.com/RussellLatshaw/status/1523840289718378497#m

Then there's the "Project Shin Evangelion", a 349 page book. However, this one goes over the technical aspects, not so much the creative process. Neither of the books has been scanned. Looks like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166206881304

The other books that would definitely talk about the creative process are the Complete Records Collection(CRC) books. You want the Settings one, not the Visual Story because that one is a collection of stills from the movies. 3.0's was supposed to release the previous month, but it doesn't seem it did. 4.0's is supposedly in December if I remember right, but it might get delayed just like 3.0's was like what now? 5 times?

>>281956408
Kensuke simply tells her to stop trying too hard and just be who she is (stop chasing after validation).

>>281956442
>Why does Evangelion end violently, and somewhat unhappily?
>KT: People are accustomed to sweet, contrived, happy endings. We wanted to broaden the genre, and show people an ugly, unhappy ending.
>We wanted to broaden the genre, and show people an ugly, unhappy ending.

Miyamura - Asuka's VA
>She was happy to see that love was the theme of the Rebuild movies because there was no love in EoE.
>Miyamura: There was no love in EoE!

https://web.archive.org/web/20070806063455/http://www.akadot.com/article.php?a=182

>>281956619
Fine fine but she’s still just being told to do that. We don’t actually see her embody that in any way. It just seems like her whole character fizzles out in the end due to creator negligence.
It’s not good enough. At least not for me.

Also do rebuildfags all come off the same bus or something? Gone all year then show up to suck the movie’s dick for a second and disappear again.

>>281956408
>EoETard can't absorb basic bitch information
How many pretentious layers do you need, anon?

>>281954501
>they don't bother busting him out for 14 years
They lacked the technology to bring him back since, you know, the whole world collapsed and humanity was nearly wiped out
>when they do they all hate on him for saving their asses(??)
Did I miss the part when nearly all humanity was wiped out? I mean, the third impact started, Doctor Akagi said so.
>>Kaworu, who knows the impact was started elsewhere says it's Shinji's fault(????)
Because it was, he got tricked into it, but it was his fault.
>No one tells him shit when he asks for explanation
The whole world is fucked up anon. Humanity needed someone to blame, and that was Shinji, Misato getting cozy with him would have fucked up the line of command. Also, not even a day passed between Shinji being brought back and him getting kidnapped by Blackyanami. Things moved fast.
>they tell him he can't pilot eva when he volunteers
He started a whole new Impact when he piloted the Eva with Kaworu, Shinji was unstable.
>they let him pilot the eva after shitting themselves and letting gendo do nothing and still winning (??????)
They let him pilot the Eva after Misato takes a bullet for him.
>What exactly was the process behind writing the clusterfuck that became the Rebuilds post you can not advance?
You are illiterate and can't into basic storytelling, that's it. Rebuild haters are malding into their own stupidity and that's it. And you'll continue to do so.

>>281956809
Getting thrown away isn’t really closure.

>>281932218
His takes on Ghibli is more nuanced than you think.

>>281956850
>Getting thrown away
Who’s getting thrown away here? Are we talking about suitcases now? Is that really how you value human relationships? You’re either a kid, an unstable teenager, or an adult way past salvation. So let me explain it for you. Shinji and Asuka are two 14-year-old kids trying to connect, but they don’t have the emotional tools for it. Instead of bonding, they end up hurting each other. By the time they finally have the emotional stability to form a real connection, their feelings for each other belong to the past. And instead of desperately trying to revive the “glory” of their teenage selves, they actually talk things out and move on.
That’s the whole point, there’s no sense in reviving a past empire. Everything has to be rebuilt and reborn. That’s what the Rebuilds and Evangelion in general are about: stop living in nostalgia, stop clinging to old loves. Even if the future is scary, you have to take that step forward. Asuka and Shinji could have been something, but their timing was off. So let it go. New things are waiting for you.

>>281957133
Asuka doesn’t get to answer Shinji in the end. She hasn’t given any real indication that she’s moved one she gets patted on the head by one man and sent away by another to live in a dirty old shed she was already rolling around in for the last 14 years.

>>281956619
Then dumbass Asuka goes trying very hard to please Kensuke's massive dong

>>281946981
lol this midwit got filtered by eva of all things. find a different hobby.

>>281957253
>Asuka doesn’t get to answer Shinji in the end.
Anon, Shinji is answering Asuka's feelings. She was the one who spoke first. That's why the answer is "I liked you, too."
>She hasn’t given any real indication that she’s moved
She has anon, that's why she spoke first.
>she gets patted on the head by one man
Said man recognized her as an individual and gave her a place to belong; that's all she wanted. You guys seriously need to stop watching movies at 3x speed.

>>281957359
Porn addiction is one hell of a drug.

>>281957377
>no U
kill yourself illiterate retard.

>>281957253
>Asuka doesn’t get to answer Shinji in the end
Asuka already said her piece earlier.

>She hasn’t given any real indication that she’s moved one
Except when she told him exactly this earlier on.

>to live in a dirty old shed she was already rolling around in for the last 14 years
Asuka was only miserable when Kensuke wasn't around (because unlike Rei she refused to connect with anyone else).

>>281956785
>Also do rebuildfags all come off the same bus or something? Gone all year then show up to suck the movie’s dick for a second and disappear again.
They sure come from the same short bus.

>2025
>still no Ritsuko gf
I FUCKING HATE YOU ANNO

>>281957383
>Said man recognized her as an individual and gave her a place to belong;
That’s fine and everything but presumably she’s been there with him for years. At no point did she ever arrive at that epiphany herself? And they make their relationship so vague that it’s hard to tell if they’re anything more than work acquaintances but then at the end he’s suddenly her place of belonging?

>>281957436
You can’t really trust Asuka to be honest with herself. The face she makes when shinji says he liked her betrays all of that.

>>281918766 (OP)
I've learned not to discuss things with stupid people.

>>281957517
>At no point did she ever arrive at that epiphany herself?
She was still clinging to Shinji. That's why letting go of the past is a thing.

>>281957556
You realize that Shinji only tells her what she needs to hear so she can move on, right? Shinji himself has no desire and no ability to help Asuka, that's why Anno depicts Kensuke as the opposite of Shinji, Kensuke is a reliable adult, Shinji is a child in need of help.

>>281957588
Then at that point in what sense is Kensuke even a good father figure to Asuka? In all of 14 years he never did anything that equates to her being handed a bento one time?

>>281918766 (OP)
>his own masterpiece
But enough about Re: Cutie Honey. I thought this was an Eva thread.

>>281957564
Ok I get the whole MK ultra thing(the attire might also be a reference to Alice in Wonderland), but Cleopatra? What do eclipses mean? Is there something special about the date and the age?

>>281957709
That's on Asuka, she couldn't look at the new things in her life, because she was stuck in the past. Settling her things with Shinji made her realize all she had gained.

>>281957696
Yeah yeah that’s fine I can even accept that angle. But then again how is Kensuke any better if he couldn’t help her in over a decade?

>>281957752
Gained? You mean one guy who fills a water bucket for her? She’s still self soothing with a weird puppet. Doesn’t she trust Kensuke with these thoughts and feelings? If not, then again what good is he?

>>281957751
I'm not doing a whole writeup about it. Basically all of the character's birthdays match their voice actors. Arianne is the voice of Lilith, her birthday is 4/8. They played EoE for the first tme in north america on 3/17/24, right before the eclipse. 317 is the 66th prime and 77th day of the year. Cleopatra refers to the uniting of upper and lower egypt, red and white crowns, blue is war crown.

There's a lot more. w/e

>>281947266
This is kind of a moot point unless Anno or someone comes out and releases production plans they had since the beginning. Yes, things were going to be different. But 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 different? Anno specifically mentioned Zeta Gundam New Translation as an inspiration which changes some things from the original, but keeps a lot of it the same and doesn't radically alter the trajectory of the story. So we'll never know what a Rebuild looks like in another universe, where Anno didn't struggle with the story direction and could still relate to Shinji. Would it still have been a radically different ending? Closely follow the tv show with some differences? Personally I think it ended the way it did because that's the only way Anno could bring himself to come back to Evangelion after all this time. But in another world with a tighter production we would've gotten 4 Rebuilds in the span of 4-6 years that would've been a lot less ambitious in their story changes.

Subliminals. Pretty incredible really.

>>281957564
This image is a WIP by the way.

>>281958160
Texhnolyze is coded to the eclipses as well.

>>281957923
>Basically all of the character's birthdays match their voice actors.
They do that with actors all the time. Masons clearly control the entirety of media(this obviously includes Anno), but I still sometimes like to give myself the illusion that that component doesn't exist. Thank you for the clarification.

>>281949882
>the characters all blame Shinji for something they not only partook in themselves for years, but actively cheered and goaded on.
Honestly this wasn't as bad on a second (or third) viewing. It's clear that the characters aren't meant to be 100% right in their blame on Shinji. But also, it's perfectly natural to feel some resentment towards someone who caused so much destruction even if that wasn't their intention. And for all the new characters who weren't there to personally witness the moment in 2.0, the best they could possibly know is "some kid wrecked the world over some girl."

It doesn't make sense from our perspective because we only really get Shinji's perspective during 3.0, but he's just as confused as the audience is why he's being treated the way he is. But for the characters who went through years of trauma they're going to wonder what it was all for and they're going to make scapegoats when they can. In fact this is even more likely if you point out that they "partook in themselves for years." That makes them more likely to shift blame and not accept it.

>>281958160
The color of the carton.

This appeared in the store right after the eclipse. Never seen it before in my life. I was so focused on the eclipse for like 2 years that there is no wya I would have missed this. It's like it popped into existence. It's called Schreiber, it's milk, she was interviewed by "cartoon Milk" and it manifested as a carto[o]n of milk.

>>281958160
I haven't done enough research into all the symbolism. Is this the milk = adrenochrome one?

>>281958262
I don't know. I haven't ascribed any broader meaning. Other than the obvious, milking your cattle until it's time to lead them up the ramp, where you drain out the blood. And everyopne takes their cuts of the dumb little human honeybees. Buzzing around and making the honey in some stupid MKULTRA global dollhouse.

>>281957933
Anno's Evangelion always was a product of action and reaction, whatever plans they had were always subject to last minute changes.

>I think it ended the way it did because that's the only way Anno could bring himself to come back to Evangelion after all this time
Evangelion has always been a reflection of Anno's mental state.

>>281957826
You are now arguing in a circle, anon.

>>281958306
>Evangelion has always been a reflection of Anno's mental state.
Yeah, but the question is why did he decide to come back in the first place? Some people are convinced its to make money, but in that case why take over a decade of time and all the struggle he went through when just retelling the tv show would've worked? And if he couldn't do that himself, he could've just handed off more and more responsibilities to others which he did anyway.

I think there's some element of him wanting to buttress the legacy of Evangelion but I think it was mostly him deciding to come back because he felt he could tell the story unrestrained by the context of the original tv show's production but then realized that wasn't good enough and that's the cause of the story changes.

>>281958435
Just think about how insulting the implication is. You live with someone for 14 years and they can’t move on from this other person the whole time. It’s only after conclusively ending things with that person and being abandoned by their only other friend that suddenly NOW you’re good enough.

>>281921961
Nadia

>>281958514
There is no reason to believe that Asuka being moving on is a reflection of Kensuke at all. You're intentionally framing their relationship in a weird cuck emasculating way.

>>281958484
>why did he decide to come back in the first place?
He wanted to convey a new message.

>>281958514
>You live with someone for 14 years and they can’t move on from this other person the whole time.
Kensuke is an adult anon.
>NOW you’re good enough.
Kensuke wasn't waiting for free pussy anon; he cared about Asuka way past a sexual relationship, maybe that's why Asuka trusted him. If you can only see the relationship between a man and a woman as purely sexual, that's on you.

>>281931149
>compared to what
Compared to an alright show and one of the best movies of all time?

>>281931995
>The whole point of Evangelion was to tell people to go outside
The whole point of evangelion was there is no "point". It's an introspective deep dive into the minds of fucked up scientists and teenagers forced into saving the world

>>281958616
I didn’t mention sexual. Do we ever see him provide emotional support? Do we see her confide in him with anything? It would be neat if we actually saw what Kensuke actually does for her other than provide lodging.

>>281918766 (OP)
Profit is a valid reason to do them, having left Gainax just recently he needed a steady income to fund further projects, and also:

https://buymeacoffee.com/rikki/evangelion-1-0-you-are-not-alone-interview-hideaki-anno

Very lengthy interview from 2007 on how 1.0 came to be, source is "Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone - Complete Records Visual Story Edition - Setting Material Edition". but to answer the question:

According to Anno, the impetus to re-do Eva from an industry standpoint was to turn it into a flagship like Gundam is, to have different people take a shot at it, expand it and come up with new iterations. Anno alludes that the animation industry was in need of this as a means of support, much like children animation has Pokemon, Shin-chan, etc, and Tokusatsu industry has Super Sentai or Ultraman. And before settling on directing it himself he approached many people with this idea but no one was willing to do it.

>>281935125
That's what he wants to make.

>>281958654
There is a point. There is so obviously a point. If you want to be middle school surface level then the point can be summarized in "I musn't run away." Of course it's a little more complicated than that. But to say that Anno didn't have a point, that he was merely exploring characters' minds with no driving idea is just laughable.

>>281918766 (OP)
Rebuild isn't canon anyways.

>>281958680
>I didn’t mention sexual.
Sure anon.
>Do we ever see him provide emotional support? Do we see her confide in him with anything?
It's implied anon, she even gave him a nickname, and didn't care if he saw her naked. At this point, you are grasping at straws, but it shows how people who don't like the Rebuilds are mostly obtuse, so thank you for that.

>>281958736
Canon isn't a worthwhile concept. Literally only makes sense in a biblical context where one believes getting something wrong might lead to eternal damnation or prevent salvation. In the context of pure fiction there's no reason to care whether something is canon or not.

>>281922833
holy filtered by EOE

>>281958715
>he was merely exploring characters' minds with no driving idea
Most of that shit came at the ass end of the show when he scrapped all the original plans, which ultimately saved it from being forgotten
no one cared about eva until it was almost over

>>281931490
Retard, Mari is literally nothing, or at best she's a construct made by Shinji

>>281931490
Based SHinjiCHAD.

Asuka and Kensuke are having steamy sex RIGHT NOW

>>281918766 (OP)
Asuka and Shinji are the soulmates of Evangelion. Period.

Kensuke got Asuka because he is a man of action, while Shinji is a beta child. When Shinji grew up and found his place in the world he got a girl too, just not his crush when he was 14.

This of course upsets people who are mentally 14 year old beta children.

>>281958297
Milk can be read as MLK, Moloch/Molech/Molek due to Hebrew not having vowels.

>>281959256
Why not Harvey Milk, too, while you're at it?

>>281959368
Also the missing children on milk cartons.

>>281918766 (OP)
He made them genuinely to tell the final scene of NGE with Shinji being adult and moving onto normal life, to all the viewers. Literally that is his reason.

>>281958769
>implied
I would prefer to see it.

>>281958682
>turn it into a flagship like Gundam is, to have different people take a shot at it, expand it and come up with new iterations
But literally nothing of that sort came out of it?

>>281947266
>>281949280
Ok, bottom right is from a booklet from the 1.11 DVD, might be in the Blu Ray as well, unfortunately the only scan of it is a dead torrent.

>>281919283
retard
>>281934745
>retcon.
double retard

>>281918766 (OP)
He ain't the sharpest tool in the shed.

>>281918766 (OP)
Because he's a crazy man doing crazy shit.

>>281956809
Low IQ post.

He did it so build up studio Khara and make a few subsequently mediocre anime

>>281958221
>Shinji. But also, it's perfectly natural to feel some resentment towards someone who caused so much destruction even if that wasn't their intention.
It isn't natural at all, in fact it's so stupid it sinks the whole movie afterwards.

There's several barriers that would keep them from doing so, that are insurmountable. It's not just about the intent, it's about the fact that:

- they themselves are way more deep into working towards the end of the world than Shinji is
- they themselves know far more than Shinji
- they have natural scapegoats in SEELE and NERV, and probably a long, long list of names that include the staff and management that created the EVA's

It's not just from our perspective it's retarded, it's also from theirs. With 14 years behind them to accept the reality behind their work, creating a scapegoat out of Shinji is highly unlikely, especially when they know exactly who and what to blame. In the scenario Rebuild presented they'd be more likely to be sympathetic towards Shinji because he was used, just like them.

It's a huge contrivance and is indeed why the setting and characters of Rebuild are not taken seriously.

There was a period of time when all the uploads of "Until You Come To Me" on YouTube were taken down. It wasn't until recently at least two uploads were reinstated. I wonder if it's because part of it was an earlier version of the plot of the last one, it did seem to hint at a bigger story.

Because they got a new studio and they needed something to really start it so they remade Evangelion (most popular Anno property)

>>281962956
She was looking kind of dumb
With her finger and her thumb
In the shape of an L on her forehead

>>281964265
>creating scapegoats isn't natural
Ok, I really don't think you proved that at all in your reply.
>they themselves are way more deep into working towards the end of the world than Shinji is
Not sure how that's relevant. Scapegoating isn't about rationally finding out cause and effect but blame-shifting. Shinji used quite literally a world altering machine to fulfill a personal desire, and fucked up the world in the process. People in the real world have played around with less dangerous things and with much more noble intentions and still get blamed for their perceived failures.
>they themselves know
Repeat of the above point.
>they have natural scapegoats
You're not limited to only one scapegoat. They blame them all. If anything Shinji's connection to Gendo and NERV would only make it worse. Makes it look like a father and son who play around with the fate of the world for their own personal desires without regards to how their actions affect others.
>It's not just from our perspective it's retarded
Goal post moving. Scapegoating is always retarded because it's about relieving personal responsibilities or facing hard truths. That doesn't mean it's not natural.
>With 14 years behind them to accept the reality behind their work
Time can make something better or worse. Shinji being absent for those years probably made it worse, since his biggest defender (himself) couldn't vouch for him so whatever each person's personal view of Shinji was able to develop largely unchallenged. That means for some people they could move on and accept what Shinji did (Kensuke and Toji sure seemed to) but for others they could believe that Shinji was the reason for everything.
>they know exactly who and what to blame.
Often times themselves, which is pretty hard to do, especially when you consider your actions led to the death of your loved ones.
>It's a huge contrivance
Not really. The point is that sometimes you can do all the right things and still fuck up.

>>281918766 (OP)
Because he's a garden variety idiot who got himself too much fame.

>>281964988
>Because he's a garden variety idiot
>makes several critically acclaimed shows and movies
What's with losers with no accomplishments calling successful people idiots? Do you really just think you're smarter than everyone else?

>>281965007
You're retarded.

>>281964902
>>creating scapegoats isn't natural
>Ok, I really don't think you proved that at all in your reply.

Nor did I try to. The point being made was that they don't lack obvious scapegoats, which would be upper NERV command and SEELE at the top.

>Not sure how that's relevant.
It's harder to shift blame when there's obvious scapegoats, and they themselves are patently more to blame. That's how it's relevant.

>Repeat of the above point.
Answered by above point.

>You're not limited to only one scapegoat.
Nor did I said they were, and I'll add that they have an almost endless supply of them in NERV upper command and SEELE.

>Goal post moving.
Nope, seeing as the point was in fact that the writing decision to have the characters be resentful of Shinji ended up sinking the movie's credibility. From our perspective, it's retarded, but it would also be from theirs.

>they could believe that Shinji was the reason for everything.
>the argument prior
They are factually aware that he is not the reason for everything, as they themselves admit to in both movies.

>Often times themselves, which is pretty hard to do, especially when you consider your actions led to the death of your loved ones.
Except none of them have any problems in hating themselves or chastising themselves for just that. The EVA cast is in fact experts at doing so, so that point is invalid.

>Not really. The point is that sometimes you can do all the right things and still fuck up.
It's a huge contrivance; and the sum of your arguments is to plead insanity on the behalf of the entire cast, and not only that, a shared collective delusion with no reason to exist.
It's what you'd call an "idiot plot", the movie only works if everyone in it are complete and total idiots. A story like that works if there's a rational, believeable reason as to why the cast would be idiots, but Rebuild does not have that. As time went on and they released the rest of the story, the scenario only became less plausible.

>>281965058
>plead insanity on the behalf of the entire cast
Misato. You're actually talking about Misato because she's the only one who acts in a seemingly inappropriate way. Asuka already hates Shinji's guts and doesn't need a reason to blame him for anything. Ritsuko has demonstrated in the past she can get overly emotional despite her intellectual persona and doesn't really care about Shinji. Every other character either doesn't put all that much blame on Shinji, or weren't there to witness everything firsthand and thus doesn't fall into your criteria that they should know better.

So that leaves Misato as the one who scapegoats Shinji when she shouldn't, yet she's also shown to be the most conflicted over Shinji. She's also the leader of an organization where most people believe Shinji almost ended the world. And let's look at this objectively, and you see that Shinji is dangerous on some level. He is the one who could pilot an Eva in a way that could end the world. Doesn't matter if you think it's fair or not, but most people are right to believe that he's too dangerous to be let inside an Eva again, and guess what, the next time he gets into an Eva he almost fucks up again, so he's really proving everyone's point.

So what you end up with is your belief that the cast are all idiots because they didn't come to the same conclusion as you. Yes a lot of people should've taken blame that didn't, but Shinji also has personal responsibility that at the time of 3.0 he wasn't ready to face yet. It's during 3.0+1.0 that he's able to fully grow up and realize how childish he's been acting. You seem to think the story isn't saying that everyone is kind of fucked up in some way and needs to better themselves, which is exactly what it's saying. That's why it ends with Shinji talking to everyone.

>>281965007
>makes several critically acclaimed shows and movies
NPC tier response.
>What's with losers with no accomplishments
But enough about your worthless life.

>>281965159
No, it's the whole cast, from Misato to Kaworu.
Asuka doesn't hate Shinji in 2.0, Ritsuko is a cunt by default so sure.

The new WILLE cast also scowls and talks down to him on every opportunity, even Sakura's initial nice facade is broken down until the point she shoots Misato in the next movie.

Objectively speaking there is exactly nothing that indicates that Shinji is a danger, in any capacity whatsoever. After final ended, there was nothing lorewise, storywise or plotwise that would label Shinji uniquely as a danger, as the EVA's as doomsday machines are the only actual threat. The EVA's need a pilot sure, but the first thing they do is establish that they believe he can't pilot it even if he wanted to.

The cast are in fact all morons, as it's very bluntly established that they've got exactly zero moral, logical or otherwise opportunistic reason to blame Shinji for everything.

Your comment about 3.0+1.0 is equally retarded. Shinji starts out in 3.0 wanting to pilot the EVA, is chastised and denied for wanting to do so, and his resolution to this, his growing up is.... piloting EVA.
Yeah, no, it doesn't track. It's such shitty writing, with 3.0 the movie series became irredeemable as anything but mecha action.

>>281964988
>Because he's a garden variety idiot
That always gets the retards.

>>281965199
>Asuka doesn't hate Shinji in 2.0
Of course she does on some level. Of course she also likes him but that duality is what makes the tsundere archetype. She hates him because she seems in him the weakness she wants to overcome. The time period between 2.0 and 3.0 just lets that hatred fester while any "love" withers.
>The new WILLE cast also scowls and talks down to him on every opportunity, even Sakura's initial nice facade is broken down until the point she shoots Misato in the next movie.
Okay so you're entirely going to ignore your point that the scapegoating doesn't make sense because they should know better, but there's no reason for the WILLE crew to know better?
>Objectively speaking there is exactly nothing that indicates that Shinji is a danger
Except you know his fucking past. You don't take chances with world event possibilities, especially when they almost actually fucking occurred.
>the EVA's as doomsday machines are the only actual threat. The EVA's need a pilot sure, but the first thing they do is establish that they believe he can't pilot it even if he wanted to.
I'm not sure what your point is. That them taking insurance on the possibility that this guy who has demonstrated unprecedented capabilities before might almost end the world a second time (which he did btw) is stupid? You're also ignoring the fact that despite how much they say he's too dangerous to let live, Misato does let him live, showing an internal conflict about her beliefs.
>Shinji starts out in 3.0 wanting to pilot the EVA, is chastised and denied for wanting to do so, and his resolution to this, his growing up is.... piloting EVA.
No him growing up is him accepting responsibility. If you can't see how his mental state going into the Eva in 3.0 is different than the state in 3.0+1.0, where in 3.0 he's single mindedly focusing on "fixing" everything instead of reflecting on his actions, then well I'm sorry to say but you really missed the point.

>>281945349
>Gunbuster? Nadia? KareKano? Shin Gojira?
yes he only made one good thing, eva

>>281918766 (OP)
He's a fucktard, there's no mystery.

>>281965355
Um actually Evangelion is 26 things. Plus a movie. And a Remake series.

>>281965283
>>281965283
>Of course she does on some level. Of course she also likes him but that duality is what makes the tsundere archetype.
I'm sorry but you're being retarded, being tsundere is not "hate".

>Okay so you're entirely going to ignore your point that the scapegoating doesn't make sense because they should know better, but there's no reason for the WILLE crew to know better?
I don't get what you're saying. The scapegoating onto Shinji doesn't make sense, since the WILLE crew does have a reason to know better.

>Except you know his fucking past. You don't take chances with world event possibilities, especially when they almost actually fucking occurred.

I get the feeling you're being willfully ignorant. Facts are, at that point they had no reason, and if you argue that they're being cautious.... that'd still be the wrong for two reason:
1. Caution would demand that they don't antagonize him.
2. They brought him straight to the bridge where all the commanding officers are. They were not being cautious, they were being idiots.

There's nothing in the past that would indicate any threat, and they admit as much.

>I'm not sure what your point is.
The point is simply a statement of facts; they had no reason to worry, no reason to scapegoat him, nor anything to gain from doing so. Moreover, like earlier stated, there is not only no reason, but they have many reasons NOT to do so, as SEELE and upper nerv command (misato included!) are larger scapegoat targets.

>No him growing up is him accepting responsibility.
Meaningless sentence, and like the movie it was backed by nothing.

>...then well I'm sorry to say but you really missed the point.

There was no point. There wasn't anything to Shinji to reflect on as he is, from the onset, completely ignorant of the situation and without real agency for most of the time the story happens in. FINAL simply went through the motions of ending a story with just as many plot contrivances as the previous movie.

>>281965420
>since the WILLE crew does have a reason to know better.
You're just making up shit now. A lot of the crew were children during Third Impact grew up in its aftermath, lost loved ones during it, and the most they know about it would be "some guy caused this." Do you think they learned about Third Impact in school, or Misato had a storytime with the crew where she said, "actually my encouragement is what almost caused Third Impact"?
>at that point they had no reason
You mean like Unit 01 activating in the opening sequence?
>Caution would demand that they don't antagonize him
They're acting irrational. We both agree on this.
>They brought him straight to the bridge where all the commanding officers are. They were not being cautious, they were being idiots.
Not sure your point here is either. At best this is a convenience of filmmaking rather than a reflection of what people would do in the real world, but it's not some action so over the edge that it ruins the writing.
>and they admit as much
No, not really. Ritsuko's explanation to Shinji that his sync rate is 0 could be seen more as them encouraging him to give up on piloting rather than a sincere belief from them that he physically cannot pilot anymore. When he leaves Sakura tells him not to get in another Eva, and the fact that Nerv wants him at all should tell them that Nerv thinks he's still useful in some way. I'm not even sure why we're debating this point. This isn't an interpretation of the movie, the character's outright explain to Shinji that they put the collar on him on the chance that he might fuck up again, and explicitly mention Unit 01 awakening in the opening scene.
>no reason to scapegoat him
Again see above, the movie explicitly counters this.
>Meaningless sentence
Meaningless reply.
>There wasn't anything to Shinji to reflect
What he has to reflect is that sometimes you can fuck up even with good intentions, and that saying "I didn't mean to!" is a childish way to view the world.

>>281965549
>A lot of the crew were children during Third Impact grew up in its aftermath, lost loved ones during it, and the most they know about it would be "some guy caused this." Do you think they learned about Third Impact in school, or Misato had a storytime with the crew where she said, "actually my encouragement is what almost caused Third Impact"?

See, you're just making it worse. They're fighting a war against.... who then, if they have no clue who's behind this? Even if they were ignorant as you suggest, why pin it on Shinji?

>like Unit 01 activating in the opening sequence?
....and helping them out, giving the even less of a reason.

>this is a convenience of filmmaking
No, it's something that blows your retarded ideas about Rebuild out of the water. They were not being cautious in any way whatsoever.

>No, not really.
Yes,really, you're grasping for a fanwank theory.

>the movie explicitly counters this.
Not in any way or capacity whatsoever, facts remain they have no reason to blame him or cause him grief given their interest and their knowledge of the EVA's.

>Meaningless reply.
Meaningful, because it points out that a conclusion without reasoning or backing is just that, meaningless.

>What he has to reflect is that sometimes you can fuck up even with good intentions, and that saying "I didn't mean to!" is a childish way to view the world.
Which isn't what he does in FINAL, but even if that was indeed the point of Rebuild, then it entirely fails to portray it in the case of Shinji.
Facts are Shinji was not responsible for the calamity in either intent nor cause, and as a matter of fact he did more good than bad.

The world was doomed by SEELE and NERV who, factually, indisputably plotted, prepared and created the means to end the world, and acted on doing so several times. Shinji in fact prevented them from doing just that,not just in FINAL, but also in 2.0 where his acts saved both Rei and enough of the world to reset it all.

And this right here is why ANIMA will always be the better sequel

>>281965715
>>281965549
Just to bring things back on track:

WILLE knows:

- SEELE and NERV planned, prepared, created the tools for and set in motion the impacts
- NERV used children they taught to fight angels to save mankind
- EVA's are dangerous world ending machines that they themselves use in their war against SEELE and NERV
- Shinji was not only duped as they were, he was duped by MIsato and Ritsuko who was his CO
- Shinji's rescue of Rei through the destruction of Zeruel prevented a uncontrollable third impact and the immediate death of their captain, Misato
- Shinji has a synch rate of zero and is only dangerous when put in an EVA
- Shinji has been 14 years in a coma and is disoriented

Some times stories make characters act moronically, be it through innocent ignorance or severe character flaws, and this is done successfully when the characters have a good reason to do so. In Rebuild, they do not.

A cast trying to open a safe throughout a movie aren't idiots because they don't know the combination. They don't know and that's fair.
Nor is a deranged serial killer dumb for pointless murder, it's a character flaw that is often built into the character, an evil.

But Rebuild does not have this at all, it has neither the character's ignorance nor did they at all work on the characters to ascribe them collectively some mental flaw.

It was pure contrivance and there's no recovering from the large overstep Rebuild took, and so there was therefore logically nothing 3.0+1.0 could ever do to set that straight except owning up to it metatextually and just doing random sentimental shit, to fix it with a deux es machina at the end.

>>281965715
>They're fighting a war against.... who then
Nerv. I don't know why you think them being upset that a Nerv employee almost ended the world somehow makes WILLE's actions nonsensical.
>why pin it on Shinji?
Because he was the one inside the Eva when it almost ended the world. What more do you want?
>....and helping them out, giving the even less of a reason.
Completely irrelevant to whether they consider him a danger or not. They think he's dangerous because they know he has out of control emotions.
>No, it's something that blows your retarded ideas about Rebuild out of the water. They were not being cautious in any way whatsoever.
This is such a minor nitpick it's not worth addressing.
>Yes,really, you're grasping for a fanwank theory.
See image. There's no theory it's literally what the characters say.
>their knowledge of the EVA's.
How? He played around with something that was essentially a nuke for the world and almost blew it up. All they know is that his emotions caused Third Impact. You're ascribing an omniscience to these characters they do not have.
>but even if that was indeed the point of Rebuild
I never said him not taking responsibility for 3.0 was the whole point of the entire Rebuilds. There's obviously more going on, but there's character limit to each post and the main thing we're talking about is the characters' behavior in 3.0, not the conclusion in 3.0+1.0, so I can't possibly explain everything at once.
>Facts are Shinji was not responsible for the calamity in either intent nor cause, and as a matter of fact he did more good than bad.
Yes he was responsible. And even if he wasn't him running away the way he did was extremely childish. Just because the other characters are not treating Shinji fairly doesn't mean he's not also acting in a way he shouldn't.
>but also in 2.0 where his acts saved both Rei and enough of the world to reset it all.
Yeah now tell that to people who went through unbelievable hardships. They don't care.

>>281965831
>Nerv. I don't know why you think them being upset that a Nerv employee almost ended the world somehow makes WILLE's actions nonsensical.
A NERV employee? They're all largely former NERV employees themselves with a higher clearance level for information than Shinji are.

Yes it's nonsensical and you're retarded.

>Because he was the one inside the Eva when it almost ended the world.
So? I wouldn't blame the pilot that took off in the planes that crashed into the WTC, nor would I blame Shinji for getting into the EVA to do what everyone including Misato demanded he do.

They're perfectly knowledgeable about the nature of EVA's and their risks by now, as well as the fact that Shinji cannot realistically be blamed for anything.

>This is such a minor nitpick it's not worth addressing.
It's more that your counter-argument was retarded, good that you're letting it go.

>b-but Ritsuko
Missing the point, you're fanwanking that she's suggesting it's zero as a ploy for him to give up piloting. It was for a fact, zero and she believed it at the time.

>How?
See >>281965797

>Yes he was responsible.
Not in any way whatsoever.

>Yeah now tell that to people who went through unbelievable hardships. They don't care.
None of which are in the movie, or described in any aspect whatsoever. Moreover, they did care as 3.0+1.0 showed. 3.0 was pure bad writing and robbed the Rebuilds of a decent story that would be remembered for more than being nonsense.

anyone who takes the rebuilds seriously should kill themselves

>>281965910
This, it's a retarded shitfest and the whatever happened in it is just cause for whatever pandering they want on screen at any given time.

Anyone who believes the characters are well written or anything more than plot devices should really kill themselves.

the rebuilds literally look worse than the original show in every way

>>281965895
>They're all largely former NERV employees themselves with a higher clearance level for information than Shinji are.
And none of them were in the fucking Evangelion. How is this not getting into your head?
>They're perfectly knowledgeable about the nature of EVA's
And they know Evangelion's can be affected by emotions and they know that Shinji is an out of control emotional child. Are you going to ignore this point? They see this as his personal failing.
>It's more that your counter-argument was retarded, good that you're letting it go.
You're saying the writing is shit because they brought Shinji to the bridge. Are you seriously trolling me right now?
>It was for a fact, zero and she believed it at the time.
And she also believes that he has the potential to awaken an Eva. She literally says that they cannot discount that fact. What more could possibly be said on this topic?
>See >>281965797
So fanwank is good when it's yours?
>Not in any way whatsoever.
He used something he knew was dangerous and did something dangerous, because of his emotions. Once again your using the childish mentality of "well I didn't know better! and I had a good reason!"
>None of which are in the movie, or described in any aspect whatsoever
Are you fucking serious?

>>281965990
Just look at the facts - you need to accept that the movie is plagued by shit writing. You're failing to defend it.

>And they know Evangelion's can be affected by emotions and they know that Shinji is an out of control emotional child.

Why do you think this helps your argument? An out of control emotional child does not end the world; a doomsday device named the EVA does, and therein lies the danger. They have thus every motivation imaginable to keep Shinji's emotion's "in control", yet they don't. They have no reason to see this as his personal failing either, given what they know.

>You're saying the writing is shit because they brought Shinji to the bridge.
No, I'm saying your earlier point about them being "cautious" that he's dangerous even alone is retarded. Accept it.

>And she also believes that he has the potential to awaken an Eva. She literally says that they cannot discount that fact.
In other words; she is not plotting to trick Shinji into believing he can't pilot, as proven wrong by the fact she mentions there's a chance he can to him.
Own up to your retarded fanwank.

>So fanwank is good when it's yours?
There's no fanwank from me.

>He used something he knew was dangerous
Wrong. Shinji has no idea or concept of the EVA being dangerous, other than as a tool to keep others safe.

>your using the childish mentality of "well I didn't know better! and I had a good reason!"
This is neither childish nor is it wrong. In fact it's the absolute undeniable truth and it makes you seethe that not only did he have a good reason, given the situation it was the best outcome they could hope for. So the butthurt is really just irrational even within the context of the movie.

>>281965990
To be fair it's unreasonable to claim that Shinji fucked up in 2.0. I mean, what did he do that was so wrong? He got in the EVA, he destroyed the Angel, saved Rei, his emotions and will awakened the EVA in doing so.

Fucking up means you do something neglectfully, or wrongly, which Shinji didn't do at that point. What would he do otherwise, speedrun in seconds what Misato, Ritsuko, people with 10x his braincell count and information couldn't do in decades? Figure out that "uh oh, EVA's can cause impacts under these conditions" ?

Really they should be happy that he saved their ass. Had he staid put they'd be all dead.

>Misato
She deserved a worse fate than what she got.

>>281966078
>a doomsday device named the EVA does
And yet an Eva almost never does anything without a pilot piloting it. Very convenient for you to ignore this point.
>imaginable to keep Shinji's emotion's "in control", yet they don't
They have every motivation imaginable to keep Shinji under control, which they would have if Nerv didn't show up.
>No, I'm saying your earlier point about them being "cautious" that he's dangerous even alone is retarded.
They're afraid of him getting into an Eva. That's what they're cautious about. They bring him to the bridge because Misato wants to see him after 14 years. You're making up an argument I never made.
>Own up to your retarded fanwank.
I honestly don't care what her motivation is for telling him he has 0 sync rate. It has nothing to do with my main point and you're harping on it for no reason.
>Shinji has no idea or concept of the EVA being dangerous, other than as a tool to keep others safe.
It's literally a weapon. That he's afraid of by the way.
>that not only did he have a good reason, given the situation it was the best outcome they could hope for
Saving Rei was not necessary in the moment, and I guarantee that all the WILLE members who hate Shinji's guts don't care about Rei.
>>281966127
Personal responsibility means accepting the consequences of your actions even if they weren't your intention. This isn't what Shinji does in 3.0. Instead he runs away and almost fucks up the world a second time.

I have never disagreed that the WILLE members didn't treat Shinji fairly, but this is about what Shinji did, not how they treated him.

>>281966149
>Personal responsibility means accepting the consequences of your actions even if they weren't your intention.
See, that's rather childish. It's possible to accept personal responsibility for something that isn't actually your responsibility. Doing so consequently and as a matter of rule, isn't just childish, it's retarded and dysfunctional. No different than Shinji saying "I'm sorry" all the time in EVA, at the height of his childishness.

It's not just about WILLE treating Shinji unfairly, it's about the general notion that Shinji fucked up, which he didn't. I worry about the audiences who let themselves be swayed by poor writing into agreeing with it. What a mob.

>>281966178
But Shinji has an emotional problem that he should work through that was the cause of Third Impact. They wouldn't have even been in the situation where Rei needed saving if he didn't run away a second time when he didn't get what he wanted. And even if you say that Shinji in no way is responsible for the consequences of what he did, that doesn't excuse him for running away, joining Nerv, and doing it all over again. Shinji acts like a child throughout the entirety of 3.0 and you're excusing it because he got mistreated by Misato and that's another childish viewpoint.

>>281966149
>And yet an Eva almost never does anything without a pilot piloting it. Very convenient for you to ignore this point.
>almost never
Well there you go. Anyway I'm not ignoring it as much as making clear why it's irrelevant. It's EVA+Shinji, not Shinji alone, and in fact moreso the EVA.

>They're afraid of him getting into an Eva. That's what they're cautious about. They bring him to the bridge because Misato wants to see him after 14 years. You're making up an argument I never made.
She didn't seem happy to see him, and you're missing the point: they are in fact not being cautious on his return in general, they're being pointlessly abrasive.

>I honestly don't care what her motivation is for telling him he has 0 sync rate. It has nothing to do with my main point and you're harping on it for no reason.
Then shut the fuck about it already, and own up to the fact that your point is stupid.

>It's literally a weapon. That he's afraid of by the way.
In other words, Shinji has no idea of the EVA being a world-ending machine, i.e dangerous on the level we're discussing.

>Saving Rei was not necessary in the moment, and I guarantee that all the WILLE members who hate Shinji's guts don't care about Rei.

The desire to save Rei was necessary to make Shinji act; and it's thusly entirely necessary to defeat the Angel. Without said, he dies and so does everyone else. The WILLE members failing to take Shinji and Rei into account is another of their deep failings that make the movie retarded.

>>281966207
>Shinji acts like a child throughout the entirety of 3.0
Isn't he still mentally 14 during 3.0?

>>281966207
Then you're moving the goalposts a bit, by making the "fuckup" something that happened earlier. This isn't what the movie collectively blames Shinji for either, so it's a moot point.

>And even if you say that Shinji in no way is responsible for the consequences of what he did, that doesn't excuse him for running away, joining Nerv, and doing it all over again.
It's not just something I say, he clearly isn't.

As far as how things got worse in the third movie, well, as far as Shinji goes - I'd pin the responsibility on WILLE for that. They held all the power and abused it entirely, to the point that they chased Shinji away. Honestly that part was contrived.
Plus, as far as I remember he is a child. What exactly did you expect?

>>281966207
It takes an exceptionally childish person to blame Shinji for anything he did in the Rebuilds, while also not cursing the entire cast ten times as much in the same breath. His flaws seem minor and inconsequential compared to the rest. It's so bad in this respect that arguably, Shinji stops becoming "Shinji" and is just a self-insert.

>>281966215
>It's EVA+Shinji
Cool, so now you know why they blame Shinji.
>they are in fact not being cautious on his return in general
The caution is the choker. Holy shit stop intentionally dancing around the conversation.
>Then shut the fuck about it already, and own up to the fact that your point is stupid.
I mentioned it once when you said they had no reason to be cautious about Shinji piloting an Eva when the main point I was making is they were worried because Unit 01 activated in outer space. You're the one who needs to shut the fuck up about this.
>In other words, Shinji has no idea of the EVA being a world-ending machine
And I already mentioned that "I didn't know better" isn't a good excuse. Personal responsibility is not about prostrating yourself it's about dealing with the consequences.
>The desire to save Rei was necessary to make Shinji act
Insane. Now you're saying WILLE crew is irrational because they aren't being held hostage to Shinji's emotions.
>Then you're moving the goalposts a bit, by making the "fuckup" something that happened earlier.
No his fuck up was always almost ending the world. I only went earlier because the claim was that Shinji has nothing to accept responsibility for, and he has a pattern of behavior to accept responsibility for.
>>281966268
>It takes an exceptionally childish person to blame Shinji for anything he did in the Rebuilds, while also not cursing the entire cast ten times as much in the same breath
I never did otherwise. I keep saying over and over again that the WILLE crew fucked up. But their fuck up is not due to bad writing, and their fuck up doesn't excuse Shinji. The movie never paints the WILLE crew as doing something right or noble in their treatment of Shinji.

In reality had Shinji stayed, Misato probably would've softened on him. But he ran away at the first opportunity he got. That's what 3.0 is about.

>>281966289
That doesn't make sense either. Running away? You've blurred the line between running in fear of something or as a tactical retreat or to a better vantage point so much that it's pointless.
I think it's bad writing, not because Shinji didn't do anything wrong (he didn't), but because the characters have no reason to treat Shinji poorly. But the story they want to tell desperately needs them to in order to work, and they don't sell it well at all.

>>281966353
I'm sorry, tactical retreat? You know this is Evangelion. And Shinji, right? You know the show about running away and the character who keeps saying "I musn't run away." If you're having a giggle at your computer then let me know because this is absurd.

>>281966378
That "running away" is a theme in NGE isn't really an argument you can use to defend another production like Rebuild. If this was really "Evangelion" the way the original was, they'd come up with an actual credible reason for their mistreatment of Shinji.

>>281966289
>Cool, so now you know why they blame Shinji.
Do you not understand the word you're using, is that the problem? Blame implies responsibility and guilt, something which is clearly established doesn't lie with Shinji, and it's something that is obvious to all of WILLE would lie with SEELE and NERV.

>The caution is the choker. Holy shit stop intentionally dancing around the conversation.
>I mentioned it once when you said they had no reason to be cautious about Shinji piloting an Eva when the main point I was making is they were worried because Unit 01 activated in outer space. You're the one who needs to shut the fuck up about this.
Moving goalposts is your game, not mine. Take the L and move on.

>Insane. Now you're saying WILLE crew is irrational because they aren't being held hostage to Shinji's emotions.
As a matter of fact, they are, and that was proven time and time again. Their failure to account for that is indeed what brought them low until in the end, they had to rely on Shinji and indeed, his emotions to save the day. They and you are refusing to deal with the reality as it is, you can be excused because you're likely an irrational fanboy.

>No his fuck up was always almost ending the world.
That wasn't his fuck up at all, nor is it rational to believe so even for a moment.

>>281966268
It's the Asukafags. In fact they need to defend it otherwise it'd mean Shinji did a good thing in 2.0, which was saving Rei.

Oh I remember the butthurt. It wasn't just evageeks seething covertly, it was actual asuka fans stating plainly their jealousy and hatred of the series. Shipping is a hell of a drug.

ITT:
Deranged autists are baffled that putting emotionally unstable children into giant god clone robots that can kill half the world may have unintended consequences.
Anyone who relies on children to do something critically important while also failing to account for the inherent unpredictability in children in everything they do, deserves everything they have coming to them.

Rebuild cannot POSSIBLY be a cautionary tale of having to grow up with the crosshairs on Shinji, simply because the cast through poor writing end up being far more childish and responsibile for any would be consequences. Now if you argued that it's about "growing up" on account of WILLE and NERV... you'd be right. Shinji is more like a plastic bag in the wind.

>>281966403
Why does WILLE need a credible reason for their mistreatment of Shinji for the themes of the movie to work? So that he doesn't have justification for running away? The point isn't that you can't justify running away. You always can. How is Shinji not justified in closing off from the world when he has the father he does, and the world is in the state it is. But running away is no way to live life.
>>281966415
>Blame implies responsibility and guilt
No blame implies accusation.
>Moving goalposts is your game, not mine. Take the L and move on.
They have a reason to worry about Shinji piloting an Eva despite his 0 sync rate. You said they didn't. Bro just accept this. You were wrong, probably because you forgot that detail of the movie.
>They and you are refusing to deal with the reality as it is
Shinji being emotionally unstable is not something to accept. It's something to fix. The fact I have to say this is absurd.

>>281966467
>Anyone who relies on children to do something critically important while also failing to account for the inherent unpredictability in children in everything they do, deserves everything they have coming to them.
Yes. You act like anyone in this thread is saying otherwise.

>>281966483
>Why does WILLE need a credible reason for their mistreatment of Shinji for the themes of the movie to work?

If it doesn't have a credible reason it undermines the theme. With 3.0 it's so bad it manages to effectively prove the opposite of what you're claiming.

>>281966505
How? That's what I'm asking and you restated the position. The point of the movie isn't "the world is fair and if you act childishly that's your fault" it's "the world isn't fair, but you still have to deal with it."

>>281966483
>No blame implies accusation.
You said they blamed Shinji, and no blame does not imply accusation at all. You really don't know the words you're using.

>They have a reason to worry about Shinji piloting an Eva despite his 0 sync rate. You said they didn't. Bro just accept this. You were wrong, probably because you forgot that detail of the movie.
Now you're reaching in desperation. I never said they didn't, I said their shitty treatment of Shinji can't be excused by caution, as was your point. Take the L and move on.

>Shinji being emotionally unstable is not something to accept. It's something to fix. The fact I have to say this is absurd.
The fact that you think it can be "fixed" by treating him like shit, is what's absurd.

Facts are WILLE and 3.0 as a whole is poorly written.

>>281966517
It's an asinine point; especially in Rebuild where solutions are arbitrary and based on random lore details that are unknown to not only the audience, but the characters as well.

I'm not comparing Anno to Tarkovsky when I say that nitpicking EOE or the Rebuilds is like nitpicking The Sacrifice or Nostalgia.
I'm just not sure these films were meant to be taken this way, regardless of their quality.

>>281966531
>blame does not imply accusation at all
Pic
>I never said they didn't, I said their shitty treatment of Shinji can't be excused by caution, as was your point
>Objectively speaking there is exactly nothing that indicates that Shinji is a danger, in any capacity whatsoever
>There's nothing in the past that would indicate any threat, and they admit as much.
Please defend these points you made.
>The fact that you think it can be "fixed" by treating him like shit, is what's absurd.
One more time, I am not excusing WILLE's behavior. I know I keep saying this and you keep ignoring it because it blows your whole point out the fucking but you keep conflating the point that Shinji needs to grow up, with the point that WILLE treats Shinji like shit because they blame him.

>>281966483
If WILLE doesnt have a reason to treat Shinji like garbage the whole movie collapses. Imo it did.

>>281966596
Good, youve moved on. WILLEs actions are inexusable.

The next step for you is to accept that they are also inexcusable insofar a realiatic portayal of people in their situation goes.

Shinji dindu nuffin wrong, he a good boi, except unironically.

>>281966596
Blame him for what? Blame him for everything the literal Illuminati did? Thata retarded.

>>281966653
>Good, youve moved on. WILLEs actions are inexusable.
My first post on this topic was
>It's clear that the characters aren't meant to be 100% right in their blame on Shinji. But also, it's perfectly natural to feel some resentment towards someone who caused so much destruction even if that wasn't their intention.
>But for the characters who went through years of trauma they're going to wonder what it was all for and they're going to make scapegoats when they can
The point was never WILLE was in the right, but that they were acting in way people do and is consistent with the themes of the Rebuilds.
>The next step for you is to accept that they are also inexcusable insofar a realiatic portayal of people in their situation goes.
No I will not accept that people acting like jerks because their lives suck and there's a convenient punching bag to take it out on is unrealistic.

>>281966695
Its unrealistic because they have better and bigger punching bags, plus they very patently gain nothing from it, and just as obviously actively make the situation more dangerous.

It's not a realiastic portrayal of the characters and so its contrived slop.

>>281966695
See >>281966667

The movies are built on Shinji having the blame, but at the same time it built a setting where he doesn't.

>>281966754
>Its unrealistic because they have better and bigger punching bags
Which they punch too. And based on your posts you think it's okay to assign blame to everyone except Shinji. So Gendo should take blame, for being Nerv commander, but not Shinji. Fuyutsuki should take blame for being Gendo's right hand man but not Shinji. Misato should take blame for encouraging Shinji, but not Shinji.

Let me be clear again, because I know you'll forget, but my point isn't that Shinji should take all the blame for Third Impact. My point is
>WILLE blames Shinji as a scapegoat because he was the pilot of the Evangelion
>Shinji should've taken responsibility for his actions causing untold suffering even if he didn't intend to. This doesn't mean prostrating himself before WILLE and accepting everything they do to him. It means reflecting on his actions, understanding what happened, and not doing it again (which he fucking does)

>>281966816
The movie fails in establishing a reason for why he is to blame. Your walls of text fall short because you dont either.

You claim he is responsible for the suffering, but clearly he isnt, the people who knowingly worked toward that is. You merely have dumbfounded views.

>>281966867
>The movie fails in establishing a reason for why he is to blame
He is blamed because he piloted the Eva. You are confusing the act of WILLE blaming him with whether that blame is deserved given the totality of impartial knowledge. Again a point I have made several times that they aren't the same.
>You claim he is responsible for the suffering
He is responsible for his actions even if they have unintended consequences. Everyone is. That's why Shinji would go to jail if he killed someone with a car even if he didn't mean to. This is a very straightforward premise. A mature person would think about what they did and what effects it had even if they weren't intended, and try to not do the same thing again. Shinji doesn't try to understand how his actions hurt people, justifies it by saying it was for Rei, and then tries to do it again. There is nothing dumbfounded about the view that Shinji did not act in an appropriate way, and the fact that you can't see this probably means you need that message.

>>281966928
Again no reason. Merely dumbfounding.

>>281966944
If you want more (You)s you gotta give me something to reply to.

>>281966977
Like I said, neither you or the movie can plausible demonstrate that Shinji is culpable, or that is likely given the setting.
Their behavior determine the plot.

>>281967074
I don't know man. This whole reply chain started because you said the characters blaming Shinji is unrealistic because they are also personally culpable or should know better. And like I want to know what this real world is where people never get unfairly blamed for things.

Q is a classic "idiot plot" - a plot that only works because everyone involved is an idiot.

Shinji wasn't exactly a household name, and was in any case decisively shot down by Kaworu at the end of Ha before things got out of hand.

>>281967167
It isnt realistic, nor is it actual, so the movie cant derive any message from it.

The lack of realism makes it poorly written.

>>281967243
>so the movie cant derive any message from it.
The message of the movie is that sometimes even things with the best intentions and things that seem right in the moment can turn out wrong. Not everything is going to work out the way you like it. And you have two options, deal with the consequences in an appropriate manner, or don't. Shinji chose not to do it the right way in 3.0.

Whether everyone is right to blame Shinji or not isn't the point. That's another one of the consequences of his actions, and it might be unfair, and unintended, but you have to deal with them. And sometimes in life you're going to do something, it's gonna mess something up, and people are going to blame you. And it's about how you react to that.

You can say you don't like the plot or the message, but to say the movie can't even have a message from the plot is just you not engaging with the movie.

>>281967290
Was it wrong? Not really. The alternative is worse. The movie fails to reason about it.

Its not about running away either, in fact that part is not consequential. It all boiled down to contrivance and plot devices that Shinji exerts no real agency over.
Oʻ
The movie may have tried to have a message, but it certainly didnt deliver.

Eva was always shit, it is not really "ruined"

>>281967384
>Shinji exerts no real agency over
I mean that's just another point of the movie. Shinji is a person of reaction, not action. That's another element of his childishness. He hasn't grown into a competent capable adult yet, so he makes mistakes and is unable to enact the change in the world he wants to see. And his attempts to do so result in failure. And rather than learning from this failure, he wallows in it, until 3.0+1.0.

Like all this at this point is pretty basic "growing up" stuff. There's more to the Rebuilds, but that's the basic idea regarding the transition from 2.0 to 3.0.

>>281967419
Its basic to the point of non existence.
There is nothing inherently childish about Shinji's mistakes, alleged or otherwise.
In fact it is a nonsensical take. The adults act far more childishly, which is another thing that detracts from the quality of the writing.

3.0 made the cast retarded for plot reasons with no payoff.

>>281967544
Shinji running away and then doing it again isn't a mistake? Shinji not listening to Kaowru because he's so obsessed with fixing everything isn't a mistake? Shinji not even trying to discuss things with everyone without getting emotional isn't a mistake? Shinji never seriously tried to consider anyone else's point of view until 3.0+1.0. Until then he always acts to protect his ego. He is childish throughout the whole Rebuilds, and original tv show.

>The adults act far more childishly
Did you watch the original show?

>>281960334
>Literally that is his reason.
lol, how naive.
No, the reason for the rebuilds was so he could unfuck the state of merchandising royalties for Eva, because at the time, they were all going to GAINAX and not him.

>>281967621
At that point, mistakes cease to matter as the blunt force of the situation precludes any chance of rational thinking, not to mention that Shinji is still being actively deceived.

If you want to analyze where mistakes were made, in the movie, by the cast, Shinji is at best a minor blip. You mentioned Kaworu, one character who is written extremely poorly, whose mistake also demand that he is retarded.

Its nonsense. Rebuild cannot possibly be about growing up, owning up to mistakes or fixing them, since it was all resolved with world reset magic.

0/10 writing

>>281967708
Ok cool. Well it's been several hours so I'm tired of this. I'm convinced you don't actually have a point and you're just going to disagree with everything I say because it's funny how we can agree on literally nothing about the movies. Even the points we agree on like WILLE was acting irrationally against Shinji you still paint as a point of disagreement and continue to bring up as if I don't agree with that as well.

>>281967786
My point is that they are poorly written past 2.0, something you cant refute.

The result is a mess riddled with plot holes, that cant even defend a single point it's fanboys pretends it makes.

It's only value lies in otaku pandering and tricking people who cant tell well written complexity from contrived chaos it has a point.