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Anonymous No.282397585 [Report] >>282397731 >>282397733 >>282398535 >>282398701 >>282398852 >>282398989 >>282399617 >>282399668 >>282400568 >>282403166 >>282403424 >>282403454 >>282403746 >>282404270 >>282404648 >>282405717 >>282405727 >>282407365 >>282408497 >>282409333 >>282411212
At what point does a light novel become a heavy novel?
Anonymous No.282397630 [Report]
When the publisher calls it that.

Thread over now kill yourself for wasting electricity on this garbage.
Anonymous No.282397712 [Report] >>282398285 >>282409333
Calling it LN is a misnomer.
It is more like scripts

No narrative set-ups or writing style. It doesn't even have any prose
Just dialogue exchange
Anonymous No.282397731 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
That's a lot of timestopping into instant death
Anonymous No.282397733 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
When the writing gets good
Anonymous No.282398285 [Report] >>282398365 >>282405075
>>282397712
Read better LNs and avoid WNs
Anonymous No.282398365 [Report] >>282398490 >>282404799 >>282409333
>>282398285
Bitch, a better LN is called a Novel
Anonymous No.282398490 [Report] >>282398576 >>282404263
>>282398365
The only difference between LN and novel is page count. And sometimes that's not even true. Everything else is dependent on the author or the publisher.

There are LNs that have good writing and good prose, you just haven't read them because popular examples tend not to.
Anonymous No.282398535 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
A light novel is just a marketing for a novel aimed at young readers in Japan. It's not describing the length of the novel but the target audience.
Anonymous No.282398576 [Report] >>282398692 >>282404799 >>282407525
>>282398490
On paper, yes
In reality, it is precisely the fact that Novels require more effort to make that it filters out the scrubs

No one reads sprite comics because it is so low-effort
No one reads AI comics because it is so low-effort

Only the low lives do low effort art
Anonymous No.282398692 [Report] >>282398746
>>282398576
Novels requires no more or less effort than LNs because they are the same thing. Different publishers of both novels and LNs have differing standards. There's plenty of low effort novels that get published even more than LNs

LN haters never have good arguments.
Anonymous No.282398701 [Report] >>282399651
>>282397585 (OP)
>At what point does a light novel become a heavy novel?
Once the regular hydrogen atoms in a light novel are replaced with deuterium it becomes a heavy novel.
Anonymous No.282398746 [Report] >>282398798 >>282399709 >>282402255 >>282406338 >>282406354 >>282408065
>>282398692
You have never read a real book
Anonymous No.282398798 [Report] >>282398840 >>282399672
>>282398746
>u never read reel book xdddd
Another go to cope for LN haters. I accept your concession.
Anonymous No.282398840 [Report] >>282398865 >>282402255
>>282398798
Cope my ass
Every single LN is embarrassing to read.
Anonymous No.282398852 [Report] >>282399176 >>282399551 >>282400074 >>282400550 >>282402369
>>282397585 (OP)
Lol. just lol
Anonymous No.282398865 [Report] >>282398907
>>282398840
Your posts are embarrassing to read.
Anonymous No.282398907 [Report] >>282402255
>>282398865
We can see the results, retard!

LNs are AAAAAAALLLLL Cringe!

Not a single one was written by an actual adult
Anonymous No.282398989 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
Regardless of how big the books look there still only like 100 words per page.
Anonymous No.282399047 [Report]
>/lit/fag melty
Anonymous No.282399074 [Report]
When the writing improves.
Anonymous No.282399097 [Report] >>282400116 >>282400296 >>282400821
Doesn't light novel just mean that there's pictures in it? Or a certain amount of pictures?
Anonymous No.282399176 [Report] >>282400074 >>282403304
>>282398852
SEASON 3 WHEN?
Anonymous No.282399551 [Report] >>282399679 >>282402369
>>282398852
Context needed.
Anonymous No.282399617 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
At 500 pages.
Anonymous No.282399646 [Report] >>282399945
So which eceleb made another isekai bad video that there's another rather heavy spill of the usual isekai bad LN bad japan bad spam?
Anonymous No.282399651 [Report]
>>282398701
Anonymous No.282399668 [Report] >>282399872
>>282397585 (OP)
LN is a weird term. Most of the time thet are on the same level, or slightly lower, than average script.
Anonymous No.282399672 [Report] >>282399927 >>282405075
>>282398798
Amusingly enough, /lit/fags are quick to admit they don't even read the slop they praise, they just watch jewtube videos summing it up.
Anonymous No.282399679 [Report] >>282400409
>>282399551
a fucking brick of ai-tier failed anime script.
Anonymous No.282399709 [Report]
>>282398746
>he fell for the ""real books"" psyop
Anonymous No.282399872 [Report] >>282399957
>>282399668
Yes and no, but it's a rather long story that nobody really gives a fuck about.
The gist of it though, do you know kanji? The list of like 2k most used common kanji for basic literacy? Most formal non-fiction publications (read: newspapers, news outlets, and magazines) basically "have" to stay within the boundaries of this list and whenever there's something they have to mention outside of this list they both have to provide a furigana or how to read the word and an explanation of what the term means (which mind you is why MTLing JP news sometimes sounds so redundant, you don't get the point of using the rare raw kanji first then explaining it later in simple terms, you just get the same TL twice).
As far as I know there's no explicit law or contract that forces them to do this, they just do out of reaching the lowest common denominator and keeping shit simple.
For a while both normal novel publications and LN ones stuck to this same standard, and I'm talking about ancient times before shana was even a thing, and in fact a lot of said publishers did open the "light novel" category to publish simpler shit to try grab a slice of the pie that WSJ was starting to grab.
However, because this was just a social contract and not really something set in stone, there was nothing to stop chuuni schizos to write the most overly complex shit imaginable.
This style of writing inevitably then bled down to the rest of the industry.
However fast forward a decade or two and these days there's basically no difference between bunko and light novel, not even illustrations as most of the bunko publishers in the industry do those now too.
And now due to the inevitability of people constantly trying to one-up the other in a cutthroat market the average LN now has far better prose and is harder to read than the average non-fiction "real book", because the latter still stick to joyo kanji standards and avoiding dialects that aren't contemporary formal japanese.
Anonymous No.282399927 [Report]
>>282399672
I noticed it several years ago. Whether someone claimed to be a litfag, then their all knowledge came not from the actual reading experience or being aware of technical stuff related to storytelling, but rather it came from a pretentious talking head(s) from some edgy jewtube video.
Anonymous No.282399945 [Report] >>282399978
>>282399646
normalniggers having a mental breakdown over getting called tourists for things they got happily circlejerked with just a month ago due to some eceleb releasing possibly the worst "video analysis" imaginable
Anonymous No.282399957 [Report] >>282400078
>>282399872
Interesting. By the way, I know a little kanji, but not to the point of wanting to read longer texts and have fun while doing so.
Thanks for this information, Anon.
Anonymous No.282399978 [Report]
>>282399945
Is it about that Indian-looking dude (I believe his name was Joey or Jimmy, but I'm not sure) who made a video about it? I see the same mug each time a Covidian decides to whine about being called a tourist.
Anonymous No.282400074 [Report]
>>282398852
Not all of that is Horizon, some of it looks to be City Series (17 books) and Owari no Chronicle (15 books). Also I don't think that's all of Horizon on the top row either since it doesn't look like enough books to even be just the core set (29 books) and I think it probably doesn't have any of Kimitoasamade (8 books) or Girls Talk (5 books) or the Next Box HDDD (4 books, maybe ongoing) or Next Box Kimi To Asamade (4 books) (Total 50 books for Horizon). It also doesn't have any of the other books from the same universe like Rapid-fire King (2 books), Clash of Hexennacht (4 books), On a Godless Planet (6 books, currently ongoing), or Fangaku!! Tokyo Depths School Life Speedrun (2 books).
>>282399176
>SEASON 3 WHEN?
https://web.archive.org/web/20180830184855/https://just-believe.in/
Because the site's dead so you can't just do tell people to just-believe.in anymore
Anonymous No.282400078 [Report] >>282400668 >>282400763
>>282399957
I was one of the lucky ones to start off knowing japanese before the initial underground culture of anime VHS reached the west due to work related reasons.
You would be surprised at the massive mark (though I would consider it closer to a scar than a mark) left on novel (both bunko and LNs) culture left by schizo chuunifags around the years where shana started publishing.
Which I do consider noteworthy because it ran almost parallel to the zeitgeist led by stuff like slayers, but basically never once touched it.
However the second the people that grew up reading deranged chuunistuff started to grow up and enter the industry as writers was then the shift happened and you saw A LOT more stories that were far less plot driven and more character driven where the story is primarily about the dynamics of suffering than a straightforward plot.
You maybe have heard of "denpa culture", particularly on VNs, but that's just the tip of the iceberg to the far deeper chuuni-suffering culture going at the time, that to this day people still try to just sweep under the rug and only acknowledge in parodies because reading some stuff of that culture can be extremely personally incomfortable.
Even modern works that were forged on those fires like monogatari and NGNL are mere shadows to the fires of suffering that came before them.
Anonymous No.282400116 [Report]
>>282399097
Some people on /a/ think LNs are like an in between of manga and "real books", but there's plenty of LNs with basically no pictures (maybe chapter title illustrations only for instance). And in the past in the west it wasn't uncommon for "real books" to have illustrations in them too. It's a retarded thing to think that comes from ignorance of both Japanese literature but also western literature.
Anonymous No.282400296 [Report]
>>282399097
It's sort of a nebulous term with no real solid definition beyond attempts to describe some of what is common. The best you could say is probably that they're pop-lit novels that are typically considered light reading.
Anonymous No.282400317 [Report] >>282400391
In jap the average LN is about 110k words, including author comments in the like.
Anonymous No.282400391 [Report]
>>282400317
that metric always ignores kanji has far more meaning in fewer "words" on top of the reliance on context allowing you to cram even more stuff in
the equivalent would be around 300k-500k words depending on the writer but kike academia will say otherwise to be racist against japan
Anonymous No.282400409 [Report]
>>282399679
S1 was ok, S2 was meh. But it wasn't like they didn't try. I had to read LN like 3 times to understand like 50% of the lore and setting.
Anonymous No.282400550 [Report] >>282402369
>>282398852
Nice tower
Anonymous No.282400568 [Report] >>282400651 >>282402026
>>282397585 (OP)
I'd consider Overlord a regular novel series. It's a shame the author is trying to sabotage his own work because it's really good up until the last two novels
Anonymous No.282400651 [Report] >>282404535
>>282400568
the jp prose of overlord is nothing impressive anon, it just is one of the few with a non dogshit TL
Anonymous No.282400668 [Report]
>>282400078
What's denpa culture?
Anonymous No.282400763 [Report] >>282401622
>>282400078
Is that the genre Mondaiji-tachi was in?
Anonymous No.282400821 [Report] >>282400892 >>282402242 >>282402303
>>282399097
Basically there are four books people cite as the "first light novel" for different reasons.
>Guin Saga (1979, I think?), for being the major short-format serialized book series (although this one is SUPER contentious, due to not being recognizable as a light novel beyond its length and the fact that its serialized)
>Operation Fairy (I wanna say 1984?), for being the first major book to use the "light novel" writing style, with lots of casual back-and-forths between characters that tend to read more like an anime script than a book (also the author himself retroactively calls it a light novel, so who's to argue?)
>Slayers (1990), for being the series that made it standard to include super detailed anime-style drawings inside the pages (it was not the first to do it, though. Shojou novels technically did it first)
>Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh (1998), for starting the wave of light novels that made them so prominent that people in Japan started using 'light novel' to describe them (the term DID exist before that, but wasn't commonly used in Japan until the mid-00s)
So basically, a light novel is "some combination of 'short-form book that may or may not be serialized', 'casual dialog with a lot of characters talking', 'anime art', and 'from the Boogiepop lineage'." Doesn't need all four. Usually just 2-3 are enough.

In other words, it's a light novel if it seems like a light novel.
Anonymous No.282400892 [Report] >>282400972 >>282401076 >>282401123 >>282401147
>>282400821
>ith lots of casual back-and-forths between characters that tend to read more like an anime script than a book (
why the fuck do westoids even push this meme when lns are so monologue and narration heavy that adaptations cut out 90% of the book by not having it?
Anonymous No.282400972 [Report]
>>282400892
Like basically everything about japan, some eceleb or ledditor said it once to shit on jp media and now everyone gaslit themselves into thinking it's true.
Anonymous No.282401076 [Report]
>>282400892
Uh, anon, you just don't get it. Nobody actually likes writing (or reading) LNs or manga. They're all just trying to make something that'll be adapted into an anime. You know, the REAL art.
Anonymous No.282401123 [Report]
>>282400892
90% is a wild stretch and you know it, but yes, it's actually quite a big issue for the very same series op attached
Anonymous No.282401147 [Report] >>282401477 >>282401571 >>282402146 >>282403821 >>282404867
>>282400892
Because you're an idiot.

For fuck's sake, have you READ Boogiepop Doesn't Laugh? The most influential Light Novel ever written? The majority of it is just scenes where two characters are sitting around having a back-and-forth. And that bled hard into all of the light novels that followed it. Here, let me pull a random page from a random LN on my computer. This is the first conversation in the first volume of Fragments of Grimm and shows the sort of "back and forth" that's over-used to hell and back in the medium.

Yes, there's narration between them, but Light Novels are infamous for scenes with stretches of dialog with very minimal narration in between.
Anonymous No.282401477 [Report] >>282401571 >>282402146
>>282401147
Given that anime is a visual medium, wouldn't you think that something intended to be an anime would give more description of things happening? Though either way I'm sure you'd call it an anime setup.
>narration between dialogue
Also called a "book". And no amount of posting muh literature books that spend pages and pages and pages on narration will prove your point. All the /lit/ posters trying to shit on LNs cherrypick to hell and back.
Anonymous No.282401571 [Report] >>282403177
>>282401147
>>282401477
Ironically enough redditpop is some of the few LNs wanked as reel literature.
Guess literally all anti-otaku criticism really is just femcels projecting.
Anonymous No.282401622 [Report]
>>282400763
nta but pretty much yeah
its relatively newer so it has far less suffering tho, at least by old standards
Anonymous No.282402026 [Report] >>282402177 >>282402242 >>282402490 >>282402896 >>282403939 >>282404072 >>282408529
>>282400568
I'll never understand people treating "regular novels" as some higher form of literature when there's just as many uninspired and trite Regular Novels being created as there are Light Novels. The only difference is that one occasionally has sick drawings. You'd think people on an anime board would be less hostile towards them but it's like everyone has to prove that they're the smartest fucker in the room because they're endowed with the preternatural intelligence to decipher the regular-ass books that everyone reads and not low-level anime crap for, apparently, babies and retards
Anonymous No.282402146 [Report] >>282402297
>>282401147
>>282401477
I don't speak a lick of Japanese so it does always surprise my English ass when their pages have so little text on them. I know it's a different language so it conveys things differently but still.
Anonymous No.282402177 [Report] >>282402255
>>282402026
>You'd think people on an anime board would be less hostile towards them
But we are not a light novel board. And frankly most light novel adaptations tend to be really shallow commercials for the books. I'm tired of seeing anime that will spend 13 episodes just setting itself up and then having a non climax.
Anonymous No.282402242 [Report] >>282402297
>>282400821
>>282402026
Recommend 10 light novels that are well written at the level of a normal novel.
Anonymous No.282402255 [Report] >>282402951 >>282407022
>>282398746
>>282398840
>>282398907
>>282402177
SO TRUE, WE NEED REAL LIT!
Anonymous No.282402297 [Report] >>282402855
>>282402146
Yeah, I don't know if that's a LN thing or just a Japanese book thing in general.
>>282402242
Can you read Japanese? Also what do you mean "normal novel"? This is why people think you're retarded. Books run the gamut from low level barely readable trash to having prose that even the average native English speaker would have difficulty with.
Anonymous No.282402303 [Report] >>282402355
>>282400821
>In other words, it's a light novel if it seems like a light novel.
It's a ln if it has the printing standard of a ln.
Anonymous No.282402355 [Report]
>>282402303
The printing standard being was published by an LN publisher, by the way.
Anonymous No.282402369 [Report] >>282402418
>>282398852
>>282399551
>>282400550
how are the current translations? are we finally in the new sequel?
Anonymous No.282402418 [Report]
>>282402369
No. He just got done with the volume 9 set so the stage has been set for the final story arc of the main novels. One of the big moments for Toori and Horizon happened in 9 though.
Anonymous No.282402490 [Report] >>282402624
>>282402026
>You'd think people on an anime board would be less hostile towards them
reminder the leaks showed the jannies are crunshit wagies actively attacking jp media and promoting westoid/gookslop
even before that you had shit like picrel happening almost monthly on various boards to promote kike culture like used goods, nigger worship, NTR, etc
Anonymous No.282402624 [Report] >>282402923
>>282402490
And yet they nuke all fanfiction threads.
Anonymous No.282402855 [Report] >>282402947 >>282402957 >>282403325 >>282406501
>>282402297
Yeah, whatever, but your recommendations?
Anonymous No.282402896 [Report]
>>282402026
fun fact, before covid the amount of people doing that shit was rather low, the vast majority that hated on LNs were just the ocassional tourist, most people accepted they weren't "novelfags" and just asked to not be spoiled on whatever series people were talking about
it was only after covid that this mixture of anti-intellectualism and anti-japan racism started to kick off in earnest
you know what else happened around covid? far more indians getting internet access
Anonymous No.282402923 [Report]
>>282402624
me on the left
Anonymous No.282402947 [Report]
>>282402855
Why the fuck would he recommend anything to a retarded piece of shit snob like yourself? Go google shit yourself or kys, retard.
Anonymous No.282402951 [Report] >>282402965
>>282402255
What's wrong with leaf?
Anonymous No.282402957 [Report]
>>282402855
Why would it matter if you can't into japanese?
Anonymous No.282402965 [Report]
>>282402951
the exact same thing that's wrong with the rest of the abrahamic countries
kike culture
Anonymous No.282403166 [Report] >>282403366
>>282397585 (OP)
50,000 words is the bare minimum tp ne considered a full length novel
Anonymous No.282403177 [Report] >>282403195 >>282403270
>>282401571
>Ironically enough redditpop is some of the few LNs wanked as reel literature.
I don't interact with the western anime community outside of 4chan, so this is news to me. I assumed Boogiepop was unpopular in the west, since the western release was discontinued very quickly and I saw almost no discussion about the anime.
Anonymous No.282403195 [Report]
>>282403177
the anime was fairly popular back in the days
Anonymous No.282403270 [Report] >>282403359
>>282403177
anon, half of the "anitubers" that launched their careers off shitting on SAO also wanked boogiepop to high hell and their fans constantly circlejerked that opinion even here, i find it impossible you really saw nothing for that entire decade
Anonymous No.282403304 [Report]
>>282399176
literally never, the sunrise sub-studio that made it is now permanently on love live duty
Anonymous No.282403325 [Report]
>>282402855
I need to know if biscuit on the firehouse is a normal book before i recommend
Anonymous No.282403359 [Report]
>>282403270
I legitimately haven't. Are you talking about the light novel or the old anime? Even skimming through the /a/ archives, I'm seeing a LOT of discussion comparing Boogiepop Phantom to stuff like Lain, but only a few random mentions of the books.
Anonymous No.282403366 [Report]
>>282403166
I'm sure Japan has its own measure of book length. From what I'm seeing it's typically characters. I've seen different ways you could consider separate words in Japanese too. It's not as straightforward as in English.
Anonymous No.282403424 [Report] >>282403469 >>282403638
>>282397585 (OP)
when it uses actual literary language, rather than simple kanji and chuunibyo readings.
The "light" refers to the way the speech is constructed, not the length.
Anonymous No.282403454 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
I always thought light novels were intended as being 'light' like a low calorie food item. With a lower barrier to entry, being easier to understand, smaller reading level required, pictures included. They're basically just snacks for reading.
Anonymous No.282403469 [Report]
>>282403424
> The "light" refers to the way the speech is constructed, not the length.
Similar to the "YA" novel distinction. Plenty of YA trash novels are just as long as classics in the western canon, if not longer, but that doesn't put them on the same measure.
Literary merit isn't just based on length.
Anonymous No.282403470 [Report] >>282403690 >>282403809
For what's it worth, this is what Japanese wiki has to say about the definition of a light novel. Pretty much exactly what's been said in the thread. Even heavy dialog is mentioned in there.
Anonymous No.282403638 [Report] >>282403807
>>282403424
>The "light" refers to the way the speech is constructed, not the length.
Fun fact, in most databases you can check, the hardest novel (counting both bunko and LNs) to read you can find is a two way tie between legends of the galactic heroes and katanagatari depending on how that particular site is measuring difficulty.
Past that for the third and fourth place there's another two way tie between ryouma ga yuku and guin saga (though some sites lack this due to only counting GS gaiden).
After this fight for the throne, it's mostly LNs all the way down, why? Because most "literature" sticks to basic prose you can read if you can pass a N2 exam.
https://jpdb.io/novel-difficulty-list?order=reverse
Anonymous No.282403690 [Report] >>282403701
>>282403470
wikipedia is not a trustworthy source in any language anon
to this day people are still trying to sweep under the rug an entire language's wikipedia that was vandalized for years by a schizo with bad english that they basically had to scrap the entire branch and remake it from scratch
Anonymous No.282403701 [Report] >>282403791 >>282403809
>>282403690
That's nice.

Regardless, it cites all of its quotes.
Anonymous No.282403746 [Report] >>282404266 >>282404672
>>282397585 (OP)
Daily reminder these translations for the Record of Lodoss War series exist. get it before it gets DMCA

recordoflodosswar.fandom.com/wiki/Record_of_Lodoss_War_Wiki:Fan-translations

(I really dislike the "fandom" websites)
Anonymous No.282403791 [Report]
>>282403701
Yeah. And 90% of those are not easily checked.
And even if they were, I can claim whatever I want and only quote what supports the "facts" and ignore the rest. There you go, 100% quoted lmao
Anonymous No.282403807 [Report] >>282403861
>>282403638
May I introduce you to a concept called "sampling bias"? This seems especially relevant, due to the methodology used. The data is also likely highly compromised.

But you didn't check for that, did you?
Anonymous No.282403809 [Report]
>>282403470
>>282403701
Fun fact, the following series are released under HJ's bunko aka "proper novel" label:
>英雄王、武を極めるため転生す ~そして、世界最強の見習い騎士~
>Reborn to Master the Blade: From Hero-King to Extraordinary Squire

>クロの戦記
>Kuro no senki.

>最強魔法師の隠遁計画
>The Greatest Magicmaster's Retirement Plan

>インフィニット・デンドログラム
>Infinite Dendrogram

And more
https://firecross.jp/hjbunko/series
Anonymous No.282403821 [Report]
>>282401147
There's so much whitespace...
Anonymous No.282403861 [Report] >>282404037
>>282403807
i mean do you really have any real argument aside from nuh huh like the typical westoid?
Anonymous No.282403939 [Report] >>282403965
>>282402026
If you are implying my post was putting up Overlord as some form of high art then you're mistaken, it was meant to mean that it's definitely not a "light" novel due to it's length. I just enjoy it a lot
Anonymous No.282403965 [Report] >>282403974 >>282403993
>>282403939
>it was meant to mean that it's definitely not a "light" novel due to it's length.
it's actually comically short for LN standards at like 16-19 or so volumes depending on if you count the filler side stories volumes or not
in terms of volume thickness is also nothing special either, as you probably already saw from other examples posted in this vid
Anonymous No.282403974 [Report] >>282403977
>>282403965
>in this vid
w-what
Anonymous No.282403977 [Report]
>>282403974
had a schizo moment, meant thread lmao
Anonymous No.282403993 [Report]
>>282403965
I don't read that many LNs but that's interesting if it's considered short. I have volumes 1-16 on my shelf and they take up more space than most other book series. If that's short then I don't know at what point it goes from light novel -> novel
Anonymous No.282404037 [Report]
>>282403861
My argument is that the methodology used by your source is bad and any difficulty score provided by it is unrelated to what I said.
This is because this methodology largely relies on using machine learning to interpolate a dataset of JSL learners self-reporting the relative difficulty between two texts (A id more difficult than B). This leads to three problematic effects in the dataset: The first and most obvious is sampling bias, the dataset will be dominated by things that JSL learners read often and sparse on things they don't read often. The second is that the data itself is poisoned, as something may have been relatively hard for for a JSL learner when they self-reported, but as their reading level improved it became easier. You cannot assume a roughly equal reading level between the reporters. And finally, this is about JSL learners, rather than Japanese people. What language students think really doesn't matter to a definition of a light novel based on the complexity of the language.
Anonymous No.282404046 [Report] >>282404124
Most writter are trash, and LN suffer from lacking a proper editorial filter. Although having an editor is not a seal of quality too.
Anonymous No.282404072 [Report] >>282404197
>>282402026
But "regular book" is the sum of all books, going from good to bad to romantasy. LNs are just LNs.
I have fun with LNs, but at the end of the day they're enjoyable slop compared to "good" whatever that means books. But at the same time if you walk into a western bookstore and pick up a random book it's probably worse than an LN.
Anonymous No.282404124 [Report] >>282404146
>>282404046
Updooted my fellow ledditor!
Anonymous No.282404146 [Report] >>282404226
>>282404124
How's that reddit? Reddit would be fellating the editorless brandonian sandersonian mormonian
Anonymous No.282404197 [Report] >>282404220
>>282404072
>compared to "good" books.
Like what?
Anonymous No.282404220 [Report] >>282404242
>>282404197
I'm not arguing about books with someone that can't even read my whole reply.
Anonymous No.282404226 [Report] >>282404287
>>282404146
This a thread about LNs. No one was talking about random American authors.
Anonymous No.282404242 [Report] >>282404287
>>282404220
part of the problem is the comically racist prejudice that somehow anything from japan is not "real literature" but even after two decades still failing to point out such examples of good literature
even before covid we were long past the point this made westoids come off as petulant children throwing a tantrum over not getting the attention jp stuff does
Anonymous No.282404263 [Report] >>282404385 >>282406574
>>282398490
The primary driver of the lower page count is the dogshit prose.
Anonymous No.282404266 [Report] >>282404305
>>282403746
How do they compare to the official TLs?
Magister !I46H95akI2 No.282404270 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
When you can't just read a chapter during your commute on the train
Anonymous No.282404287 [Report] >>282404307 >>282404322 >>282404364
>>282404226
How's that any less relevant than calling a reply reddit because it says there's a lack of editing in LNs?

>>282404242
what? There is more than enough japanese books that are popular/acclaimed by critics. They're just not LNs, same as noone would seriously call twilight a masterwork.
Anonymous No.282404305 [Report]
>>282404266
None of the books there have an official translation. The most you can do is compare the 2 official translations of the first lodoss book to thier work.
Anonymous No.282404307 [Report] >>282404321
>>282404287
>Unironically using the muh critics excuse.
That's just sad.
Anonymous No.282404321 [Report]
>>282404307
What? So personal taste is invalid, critics are invalid, popular opinion is invalid, got it. No metric is good enough for you, because that goes against your argument right?
Anonymous No.282404322 [Report] >>282404343
>>282404287
i don't think you have the reading comprehension to really understand what i'm saying
i'm not calling for a debate here, i'm rightfully calling you a nigger and pointing out you are a good goyim trained by israel to attack japan by any mental gymnastics necessary
it's not that complicated
Anonymous No.282404343 [Report]
>>282404322
I don't think anyone has the reading comprehension to get what you're saying.
Anonymous No.282404364 [Report] >>282404427
>>282404287
You're aware jews sponsor almost all critics, right?
This isn't even a joke or a conspiracy theory since covid, in vidya they don't even try to hide blackrock sponsored most of the judges of the game awards.
Anonymous No.282404385 [Report] >>282404399 >>282404552
>>282404263
Prose has nothing to do with page count, retard. LN prose is as varied as "real" novels.
Anonymous No.282404399 [Report]
>>282404385
The average westoid is stupid enough to equate word quantity with quality, please understand.
They don't even actually read after all, they just see videos on youtube about the books they wank.
Anonymous No.282404427 [Report] >>282404449 >>282404958 >>282405343
>>282404364
Of course, I'm no golem. But that's mostly recent years, with a focus on awards.
If you look at Murakami for example is he now bad because his shit won awards back in the day?

And how else to measure "good"? There's no authority on that. Taste is taste. It's like judging anime by the mal score.
Anonymous No.282404449 [Report] >>282404482 >>282404958
>>282404427
why are you so desperate to measure "good" in the first place at the expense of enjoying stuff? just to virtue signal how good your taste is?
Anonymous No.282404482 [Report] >>282404500 >>282404510
>>282404449
To help people filter out the good from the bad. So they can read good stuff instead of slop.
And no my taste isn't supremely good, I'm 1600 chapters deep into Fang Yuans wonderfully written adventure right now. Slop can be fun
Anonymous No.282404500 [Report] >>282404540
>>282404482
that comes with the arrogance of either assuming everyone has the same taste as you or thinking it is somehow better
Anonymous No.282404510 [Report] >>282404540
>>282404482
So you're one of those "anime is trash and so am I" self hating tourists lol.
Anonymous No.282404535 [Report] >>282404560
>>282400651
>non dogshit TL
The official english release for overlord is super dogshit. The trannylator got so assmad about the fantl that she/it made a poll on twitter and reddit then crashed out over the results. Everyone preferred the fan tl.
Anonymous No.282404540 [Report]
>>282404500
>"good" whatever that means
To quote myself from above.

>>282404510
>How dare he reads other stuff as well, that must mean he hates the japanese and himself
Anonymous No.282404552 [Report] >>282404578
>>282404385
The quality of the prose has literally everything to do with the page count and it's why LNs are as a rule, "Light". They aren't called "Light" because they're short they're called "Light" because they aren't heavy reading.
Anonymous No.282404560 [Report]
>>282404535
oh yeah i was thinking of the niggel tl when i said non-dogshit tl
forgot it even had an official one
Anonymous No.282404578 [Report] >>282405039
>>282404552
you bot broke anon, at least make a pretense of reading the thread
Anonymous No.282404648 [Report] >>282404688 >>282404699 >>282404741 >>282404831 >>282405020
>>282397585 (OP)
Light novels are where shitty writers go when they don't have the skill to write actual novels. And that's extra damning, considering just how much dogshit there is in actual novels like pic related.
Anonymous No.282404672 [Report]
>>282403746
Thanks man.
Anonymous No.282404688 [Report]
>>282404648
define light novel
Anonymous No.282404699 [Report]
>>282404648
updooted
Anonymous No.282404741 [Report]
>>282404648
>lonely housewife schlick novel
>actual novel
Anonymous No.282404799 [Report] >>282404820 >>282405022 >>282405075 >>282405457
>>282398576
>>282398365
Stuff like Isaac Assimov's Foundation series is basically a WN that was published over magazines (instead of a blog) and then compiled into LNs.
Still considered one of the best sci-fi stories. So publication format has nothing to do with quality.
Anonymous No.282404820 [Report] >>282405022
>>282404799
Have you read Foundation?
It's actually quite bad.
Anonymous No.282404831 [Report]
>>282404648
>Light novels are where shitty writers go when they don't have the skill to write actual novels.
What do you get out of repeating false statements like this?
Anonymous No.282404867 [Report]
>>282401147
>The most influential Light Novel ever written?
The only reason I know this even exists is because the anime music showed up on my spotify.
Anonymous No.282404958 [Report] >>282405003 >>282405343 >>282406185
>>282404427
>And how else to measure "good"?
Which kind of good are you talking about? If we're talking about writing quality then awards can immediately be thrown out since they mostly just judge sales and sales are fueled by how much advertising a publisher pumped into a series. You can absolutely judge writing quality, the only problem will be actually having read a particular book to be able to judge it and being able to make a set of rules for what makes good quality writing then sticking to those while judging the work.

As for the LNs are automatically worse than "real" books. That's just dumb since every entertainment medium is filled with garbage alongside well crafted works and the garbage is much more common, but people pretend the well made works are the representative of the medium they put on a pedestal, not the trash that averages those out.

>>282404449
You realize we're all talking about things we find good and bad in our entertainment here every day, right? You can do that without considering your opinion above anyone else's or a final word on a topic. Judging quality doesn't mean the conversation on a series is over.
Anonymous No.282405003 [Report] >>282405113 >>282405343
>>282404958
>You realize we're all talking about things we find good and bad in our entertainment here every day, right?
You say it like it isn't a problem.
Anonymous No.282405020 [Report]
>>282404648
harlequin novels are just LNs for women
Anonymous No.282405022 [Report] >>282405240 >>282405327
>>282404799
>>282404820
Here's a listing of some texts that were originally released on a periodical magazine named "The Russian Messenger" once upon a time. You might recognize some of these titles.
Anonymous No.282405039 [Report]
>>282404578
Ah but is it a light thread or a heavy thread?
Anonymous No.282405075 [Report] >>282405121
>>282398285
>>282404799
>>282399672
WNs?
Anonymous No.282405113 [Report] >>282405343
>>282405003
Having conversations isn't a problem, no. Going the opposite way where everyone just ends the conversation at, "I agree with you" or "I disagree with you," then saying "its all sujective so why talk about it," doesn't improve anything.
Anonymous No.282405121 [Report]
>>282405075
Snake, a WN or a "Web Novel" is a novel published digitally, typically serialized in installments on websites or online platforms. Key characteristics include being released chapter by chapter on a schedule, offering reader interaction through comments and discussions, a wide variety of genres, and the potential to be free or pay-to-read. Web novels can serve as a platform for aspiring authors to gain a following, and successful ones may be later published as physical books or "light novels"
Anonymous No.282405240 [Report]
>>282405022
I find it amusing how little things change. Can you guess which older WN to LN success story this is about?
Anonymous No.282405327 [Report] >>282405468 >>282405496 >>282405520 >>282405633
>>282405022
the fact that serialized fiction was accepted historically does not change anything about the fact that Foundation is quite bad.
Anonymous No.282405343 [Report]
>>282404427
>>282404958
>>282405003
>>282405113
There is, in fact, an objective means of measuring whether or not something is "good" and/or of high quality.
Pic related. The objective measure is my opinion
Anonymous No.282405457 [Report]
>>282404799
Asimov had idea to explore, WN and LN tend to be samey.
>No SF LN
Anonymous No.282405468 [Report]
>>282405327
My point was to echo anon's notion about release format not having a lot to do with quality with more examples. It's a misnomer to think that books must be planned, drafted, and edited before released in full volume for them to have a change of being "literary".
Anonymous No.282405496 [Report]
>>282405327
>Foundation is quite bad.
what!? it was awesome
Anonymous No.282405520 [Report] >>282405633
>>282405327
Asimov prose is barely acceptable, but Asimov was known for his capacity to explore interesting idea. I would say Dune is even worse but you remember the book for its plot and incredibly interesting future. You just need a stillsuit for its dry prose.
Anonymous No.282405633 [Report] >>282406108
>>282405327
>>282405520
PROSE = CANCER
Anonymous No.282405717 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
When sending it through the inbuilt e-mail function in Calibre fails due to file size.
Anonymous No.282405727 [Report] >>282406319
>>282397585 (OP)
I see a sexy Mare
It's time for THAT
Anonymous No.282405785 [Report]
I didn't know the LN super dialogue heavy style was actually a feature of the genre.
Anonymous No.282406108 [Report]
>>282405633
maybe you should stick to anime
Anonymous No.282406185 [Report] >>282406302
>>282404958
>Which kind of good are you talking about?
A good end product. One that is fun or engaging. That can be popcorn kino, something that makes you think about it afterwards, something that challenges you, something that gets you off, something that makes you laugh, makes you sad, makes you lonely, makes you empathize with characters, understand characters, challenge your beliefs and mindset. There is so much good in media.
I have found so many standout works that do one or multiple of those things. Good prose helps lots, but it's mostly about the author and what he wants and is able to portray. In japanese literature there are a lot of people trying to make their standout work. Some succeed.

LNs are not by default worse than "real" books. But when I do a mental list of all I have read, be it WN, LN, Manga, Real books, then WN and LN will not make my top 50. Yeah that's subjective. But I just don't feel like there are any that stand out as really really good.

Now that I think about the why, it may be because they never stop. No matter how good the first novel is, it will go on and on and on and on. The premise may be great, the characters interesting, but instead of stopping where it should it gets squeezed until it's no longer good. Non-LN stuff also suffers from this, but to a lesser extent.
Anonymous No.282406302 [Report]
>>282406185
>something that challenges you
anyone that truly thinks this is not preemptively putting up the "this is slop" mental barrier to protect their own fragile ego
Anonymous No.282406319 [Report]
>>282405727
>t. elf king
Anonymous No.282406338 [Report] >>282407022 >>282407038
>>282398746
Anonymous No.282406354 [Report] >>282406722
>>282398746
>brooo muh Dostoevsky
eat shit faggot.
Anonymous No.282406501 [Report]
>>282402855
皆勤の徒
Anonymous No.282406574 [Report]
>>282404263
They actually have higher page counts than regular novels for the same char counts. Characters talking leaves lots of whitespace with how japanese is written and LNs are very dialogue heavy compared to "normal" books
Anonymous No.282406722 [Report]
>>282406354
Try Howard, beta bitch.
Anonymous No.282407022 [Report] >>282407051 >>282407275
>>282406338
>>282402255
My brother in Christ!
We have seen the LN anime

We have seen what makes you cheer, and you are in no position to speak
Anonymous No.282407038 [Report]
>>282406338
Got something to tell us?
Anonymous No.282407051 [Report] >>282407080 >>282407111
>>282407022
LN is fun anon
Anonymous No.282407080 [Report]
>>282407051
So are the pulps.
Anonymous No.282407111 [Report] >>282407275 >>282407750
>>282407051
So fucking what?
You're a pot calling the kettle black

At least literoticas keep themselves in books

While you embarrassing weebs had to give it a manga, an anime, and mercs. You shameless losers are doing worse
Anonymous No.282407275 [Report]
>>282407022
>>282407111
Your post formatting and word choices are odd and make me think you're an ESL VANK gookshill from reddit and simply seething about Japan as usual.
You're clearly not from around here.
Anonymous No.282407365 [Report]
>>282397585 (OP)
It's arbitrary.
It's like nerds getting butthurt when you point out graphical novels and comic books are effectively the same thing.
Anonymous No.282407525 [Report]
>>282398576
There's sprite comics in 2025?
Anonymous No.282407553 [Report]
I read some classical literature and ln's. there's so much of both that it's impossible to make any overarching judgements. but it's kind of unfortunate that there's this 'shitty wn' to 'shitty ln' to 'shitty anime' pipeline because there's some legitimate really great stuff.
My favorite books are eco novels, specifically 'name of the rose' and 'foucault's pendulum'. I used to read a bunch more western lit but much of it wasn't that good. I took a peek at dostoevsky and it reminded me of to dazais 'no longer human'.
as for ln's there's a lot of pulp that's still really fun if you're an anime fan, unlike western pulp which is just porn or boring/bad. stuff like 'no game no life' or '86' is really cool. 'orc eroica' is the funniest thing I've read in a while. but then there's also some stuff that I'd put closer to "normal" literature like 'zaregoto' and 'empty box and zeroth maria'. monogatari franchise still mogs most literature in general.
I think fags who hate on LN's either hate reading or hate anime
Anonymous No.282407750 [Report] >>282407900
>>282407111
>At least literoticas keep themselves in books
lol
lmao
Anonymous No.282407900 [Report] >>282407942
>>282407750
When was the last big literotica adaptation?
Because Romantasyslop has been clogging western lit for a decade and there have been no movies or shows based on them.
Anonymous No.282407942 [Report]
>>282407900
I can answer this because my mom for some reason really loves these shits.
It Ends with Us, 2024.
Anonymous No.282408065 [Report] >>282408253
>>282398746
Like the one when the horse got turned into a girl, fell in a love with a man, and then got turned back into a horse and was fucked by a stallion and then tuned back into a human, so now not only her beloved was literally cucked by a horse, he will also have to raise horse or whatever child now. How can LNs even compete with such a masterpiece.
Anonymous No.282408253 [Report]
>>282408065
why are horse girls like that
Anonymous No.282408497 [Report] >>282409109
>>282397585 (OP)
When it becomes more than a comercial product, so never.
Anonymous No.282408529 [Report]
>>282402026
We call those pulp fiction.
Anonymous No.282409109 [Report]
>>282408497
>When it becomes more than a comercial product
Everything that sells is a commercial product
Anonymous No.282409333 [Report]
>>282398365
>>282397712
>>282397585 (OP)
Read Jietai/GATE the real novel, first edition. the LN editions got chopped up into smaller pieces.
Anonymous No.282411159 [Report]
Will overlord end good with all the plotholes considered?
Anonymous No.282411212 [Report] >>282412990
>>282397585 (OP)
when there's no anime drawing on the cover
Anonymous No.282412990 [Report]
>>282411212
There are 100+ years books with anime covers