Thread 282932730

How come I enjoy Naruto more than One Piece despite One Piece being significantly better written?

>>282932730 (OP)
Because One Piece is the Rick & Morty of anime.

>>282932776
that would be FMA

>>282932730 (OP)
Because you grew up in the 2000s listening to Monster by Skillet AMVs. Possibly Animal by Three Days Grace too. Also Bodies by Drowning Pool.

>>282932730 (OP)
Because like 99.9% of all anime fans you neither know what "good writing" is nor do you possess the intellectual capacity to understand let alone articulate it. So you've deluded yourself into believing that Warm Piss is well written cause its midwit fanbase screeches about how it is all the time (it isn't). You don't even think it is yourself. You merely parrot their narrative.

>>282932949
But Naruto is also poorly written and I enjoy that

dad isues
Minato>Dragon

>>282932730 (OP)
Because early Naruto was actually good at one point despite the board being tsundere for it. Like a marathoner who had a great start but fell flat halfway before reaching the goal.

>>282932730 (OP)
One Piece is ugly as shit to look at, and the characters are less relatable on an emotional level

>>282932730 (OP)
>when some rank hussy makes moves on YOUR little boy

>>282932730 (OP)
Because Naruto is well animated when it needs to be while One piece is never well animated.

>>282932730 (OP)
naruto's setting is more interesting even if the writing doesn't live up to its potential. It's something that could greatly benefit from stuff like altverse vidya or what if spinoffs. It's a lot worse on revisits too, much more than one piece just due to how poorly thought out a lot of stuff is

Naruto (not shippuden) is somewhat interesting

Because Naruto isn't all shit even if the plot is messy. Sasuke is one of the best rival characters out there and the setting is neat. The art is also generally better.

>>282933710
>Sasuke is one of the best rival characters out there

Because Nardo has Guy-sensei.

>>282933752
He's actually an equal to Naruto, so yeah.

>despite One Piece being significantly better written
That hasn't been true for a long time:
>more asspulls than naruto with gear 3rd, asura, diable jambe, monster point, muh healing hormones, haki, nika, gear fifth
>characters becoming flanderised
>reusing the same plot every other island
>fights are incomparably worse, it's just a few punches and happen offscreen. Completely neglected in favour of progressing the story. On the other hand, Naruto uses the fights to push the story forward and display character development
>wano created significant plotholes
>themes in naruto are tested through the villains, with pain and madara challenging the heroes' beliefs. Meanwhile luffy's ideals are never tested and the bad guys are just comically evil
>story lost all tension after 'just laugh harder lmao'
>one piece has double the chapters but is only half as concise
>one piece treats the reader like a retard and spoonfeeds everything. Not like naruto is subtle either but still

>>282933527
It's perfect for an MMORPG. Imagine, you pick a village and a clan from that village, then get a chakra nature at random. You and a squad of other players go out to do missions and sometimes encounter other players from other villages who have a mission to stop you.

>>282933752
Nta but it's true. Sasuke was a serious goal for Naruto and both pushed the other to get stronger.

It helps that Sasuke was the deuteragonist as well. He never orbited around naruto and never needed to be rescued. He carved out his own path, one totally seperate from the main character. He never orbited around him and seemed to have his own agency throughout. The narrative was that sasuke was lost and needed help, but he overcame everyone that wanted to manipulate him. When they do actually interact in shippuden, it's exciting because the two main characters are finally together. And having their paths and ideologies clash at the very end after all that buildup was great.

I can't remember how it was in the manga, but the anime versions of their fights were phenomenal. Especially their final battle. I know pierrot got a lot of shit back in the day but they absolutely killed it with that final battle. Still one of my favourite anime fights of all time, if not my favourite

Meanwhile you have other rivals like Vegeta and Kaiba who are losers always chasing after the mc. They're cool characters, don't get me wrong. But they never feel like a serious threat to the mc. Kaiba had his moment in battle city but that's it, while Vegeta was stronger at their first meeting. Hell, I thought Kaito, Reiji and Revolver were better rivals so Kaiba wasn't even the best rival in yugioh

>>282934082
Vegeta beat Goku 3 times

>>282934421
...in his dreams

>>282932730 (OP)
because something being good doesn't mean it's enjoyable.
one piece is enjoyable if you have followed the +1000 chapters, but not everyone has time to remember every piece of lore. same reason why kimetsu no yaiba is so popular right now. do you need to know every character and story beat to watch the new movie? not really. is it well written? for what it is, yes. is it good? it's very average for the genre. is it enjoyable? yes, for all the listed reasons.
it's also why shit like warhammer or comic books are hard to enjoy without being familiar with a fuckton of media.
naruto is simple, to the point, self contained and you really don't need to know much to pick it up at any point. you don't read naruto or one piece because you want a good story, you just want to watch cool fights and nice powers being thrown around, if you want a nuanced story or deep themes you either pick a book or read manga that isn't aimed at literal children

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto has the superior aesthetic, ost and emotional weight.

>>282932730 (OP)
You'e a retarded person who watched naruto as a kid.

>>282932730 (OP)
One Piece is not better written. It’s a repeating template of pirates going to a island fucked over by the bad guy they fight, with Luffy taking on the main baddie and Zoro fighting another swordfag or #2 bad guy. Rinse and repeat, through in some lore here and there and you got yourself Sunk Cost: The Manga. Here’s where and why One Piece failed for so long in comparison to its contemporary. The beginning of Naruto is so much better than One Piece. East Blue is a poor starting point, and the animation is inferior to Naruto’s. The character design, backgrounds, setting, music, opening, and fight choreography are also a good bit worse. Early One Piece is pretty glacial to take off, and is slower than Black Clover’s start. Naruto’s timeskip series Shippuden basically starts before they beat CP9.

>>282933710
>rivalry
Funny how Naruto is a rorschach test on what the central characters are to the audience and each other.

>>282932730 (OP)
One Piece isn't significantly better written.

>>282933454
Recent OP has got sakuga animation now but they cared way too late. Maybe that's why they're doing an anime reboot by studio WIT

>>282932730 (OP)
>how come I enjoy junk food better despite real food being healthier?

>>282935493
>food analogy

>>282932730 (OP)
you mean manga or anime?

>>282935568
>>282935588
indeed

>>282932730 (OP)
>despite One Piece being significantly better written?

>>282934574
...called Dragon Ball

>>282934574
Gokubro btw

>>282932730 (OP)
not my problem

>>282932730 (OP)
One Piece is a very ambitious manga and its politics are so relevant today it's insane. It also goes full retard less often than Naruto and Bleach (however, the writing around Oden is the most amateurish dogshit out of the three of them). That's where the praises end though. The abysmal pacing and arcs following very similar beats holds it back. It's very weird, it's like One Piece is simultaneously impressive and unimpressive, there's a catch to everything. The politics are great, but Luffy doesn't give a shit about any of it. Factions always moving in the background is great, but the Strawhats themselves rarely do anything interesting. Honestly a lot of problems go back to the Strawhats just being shit.

>>282932730 (OP)
because one piss is actually horrible

>>282932730 (OP)
You're probably a faggot, but that goes for most of nu-/a/. I mean, Naruto is basically the Steven Universe of anime. It's fucking absurd how people have forgotten just how much people loathed Naruto back in the day. I mean, it literally split the anime community in two. Even normalfag weebs hated Naruto, because of how fucking gay it was, and how obnoxious its mentally ill fans were, and on /a/, it was unofficially banned back in the 2000s, with anons spamming any Naruto threads to death when they popped up.
The fact that you can even discuss that faggot show on /a/ today with no one batting an eye goes to show how fucked up and gay /a/ has become, and how history is forgotten or outright erased because of faggot kids with their faggot nostalgia. For fuck's sake, admitting to liking Naruto back in the day, would even make other loser weebs look down on you. That said, One Piece is also pure shit. I mean, it's part of the Big Three faggot shows, but Naruto was undoubtedly the worst, and something most weebs tried to distance themselves from.
Christ, you faggots disgust me. You made this place more reddit than reddit.

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto is easier to like; practically anyone can like it on a superficial level, even I did as a kid. The character designs, the setting, even the power system, everything is made to have universal appeal. One Piece is more of a love it or hate it kind of work.

>>282936529
>One Piece is a very ambitious manga and its politics are so relevant today it's insane.
Are you autistic, or just retarded?
You're spewing shit that's on the same level as the bronies who think death camps are only relatable if you photoshop ponies into them.

>>282936716
>behold, my counter argument!
>ponies

>>282932730 (OP)
Nostalgia. You watched Nart as your second anime and checked out One Piece way later because of less appealing artstyle.

>>282936683
>16 year olds hate something that 12 year olds like because they're desperate to prove their maturity, in the process proving their immaturity
I told myself and everyone else I hated Naruto back then too. Then I got older, realised I didn't care what people think of me, and allowed myself to like what I actually like.

>>282936529
>its politics are so relevant today it's insane
People in power do twisted shit. It's always been that way, will continue to be that way, and will always be relevant. This isn't some impressive statement from Oda

>>282935493
This is a Fairy Tail argument, not a Naruto argument.

>>282932730 (OP)
>>282932776
Because nowadays One Piece is worse written than Naruto.

>>282932730 (OP)
people shit on naruto a lot but at least that shit eventually concluded

>>282932730 (OP)
Apples and Oranges. You just happen to prefer one over the other, and that's ok.
>which is which
Naruto is an apple setting with an orange protagonist, One Piece is an orange setting with an apple protagonist.

Lately One Piece has been written sloppier than Post Pain Naruto. It's hard for some OP fans to admit especially if they were former Naruto fans or Bleach fans. But that's the truth. One Piece should have ended in 2015 to 2020.

>>282935637
Manga

Bleach is better than both of them

>>282936797
It's funny to see that being said, because I watched Naruto long before One Piece, but I could never really get into it when I tried to take it seriously. I managed to finish part 1, but Shippuden was almost an immediate drop. With One Piece, on the other hand, I followed it week after week for more than 10 years and only gave up on it when Toei's bullshit became unbearable. Seriously, I've never seen a studio try to screw up a manga so persistently. It's as if they're determined to make One Piece the least enjoyable piece of media ever made.

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto just has a more fantastical and comfy setting, even with the semi-feudal Japanese ninja wars. One Piece's setting and world isn't something people want to live in, you just get attached to the characters.

>>282932730 (OP)
I liked seeing Sasuke be the only character consistently getting shit done in part 2.

>>282937327
>Naruto is an apple setting with an orange protagonist, One Piece is an orange setting with an apple protagonist.
This doesn't come off as intelligent as you thought it did

>>282933095
b-but dragon's always looking east!

>>282937496
>Naruto just has a more fantastical and comfy setting
Comfier maybe, but more fantastical? Shit is just feudal Japan with magic, which is basically Wano, and Wano is one of the most ordinary places in One Piece.

>>282932730 (OP)
If you're talking about the anime the Naruto anime, at least pre timeskip had amazing music that really hyped shit up well

>>282932730 (OP)
>despite One Piece being significantly better written

>>282933819
>had all the tailed beasts chakra under his control
>still lost the fight
>He's actually an equal to Naruto
lmao

>>282932730 (OP)
I have no idea what the fuck it is about this IP that consistently attracts the most mentally ill people imaginable, from the assmad shippers having hysterical meltdowns from many years ago to the literal shiteating pajeet retard who unironically thinks that he should be the lord master of all Naruto threads on 4chan, like this IP attracts way more genuine psychosis than every other shonen on the planet, why?

>>282938319
Hi daily-gay-rabbit-warehouse-worker. I see you're seething over someone posting a chapter without your consent lol

>>282938319
>absolutely malding over an extra chapter
Lol. Lmao even

>>282938124
I mean, it is
It's not a high bar but Naruto's writing is insanely bad past Land of Waves

tried juan piece but just couldn't get into, live action was fine though
thanks to NARUTO i now enjoy ramen

>>282938446
>thanks to NARUTO i now enjoy ramen
Nothing hits the spot quite like it

Naruto for all its faults did two things extremely well, fights and fight music. It has a great catalogue of great music than any other anime.

>>282938319
>like this IP attracts way more genuine psychosis than every other shonen on the planet
Really, it's a story that's way more hard-carried by aesthetic than anything else, and aesthetic is easily the most shallow form of actually liking something. If not for the visual designing shit would've bombed ultra-hard, I would say with full confidence that it has significantly worse writing than even Dragon Ball, Naruto has way more moments on par with shit like how Trunks's timeline really shouldn't have turned out the way it did.

>>282938319
>retard who unironically thinks that he should be the lord master of all Naruto threads on 4chan
But enough about you, dailyretard

>>282938446
only thing was searched local ramen places in my city and nothing looked good, but they told all ramen places have different menus because different provinces in japan have varying traditions. So yea, I have a go to ramen dish and am keen to try more

>>282938319
You know, if we didn't have the shitty daily's, like everyone who has been here warned, Naruto would have silently died out with a few threads here and there. Too bad a warehouse IQ OP decided to ignore that and proceed with a daily nobody asked for all because One Piss had one.

>>282937431
I would say naruto anime did better than one piece and that early one piece manga was better than naruto.
Well in my opinion both timeskips were utter trash but at least Naruto is straightfoward and it's over. One Piece on the other hand is in a Samsara of Shit without end because Oda for obscure reasons think it's extremely necessary to make a new arc exactly the same as the previous ones and dump lots of new characters and plot points. And of course all the new characters will be relevant in the future when they get their own arc that will be the same as every arc in one piece with lots of retcons and plot points and new characters that will also get their own arc that will be the same as every arc in one piece with lots of retcons and plot points and new characters that will also get their own arc that will be the same as every arc in one piece with lots of retcons and plot points and new characters that will also get their own arc that will be the same as every arc in one piece with lots of retcons and plot points and new characters that will also get their own arc that will be the same as every arc in one piece with lots of retcons and plot points and new characters

>>282936819
>People in power do twisted shit. It's always been that way, will continue to be that way, and will always be relevant. This isn't some impressive statement from Oda
He makes those people in power look like this though, and they literally live on a holy land. It's not possible to be more bold than this.

>>282932730 (OP)
One Piece's worldbuilding has always came across as moderately overrated but nowhere near as much of a retarded clusterfuck as Naruto's
>>282938319
It's because basically every character in this pic + Sasuke has something that's innately appealing for spastic self-inserters, earnestly it has the most self-insertable cast in all of anime but the problem is that self-inserting is fucking DUMB give that it's literal schizophrenia with more steps

>>282932730 (OP)
Because Naruto has better character writing
Naruto's characters feel like characters
One Piece characters are one-dimensional caricatures with no depth, even the ones with tragic backstories still act like caricatures.

>>282936529
>(however, the writing around Oden is the most amateurish dogshit out of the three of them)
Everything related to the homo relationship between Naruto and Sasuke is worse than anything Oda or Kubo have ever written. You have to put some effort to write shit this lame and gay.

>>282938688
>One Piece's worldbuilding has always came across as moderately overrated but nowhere near as much of a retarded clusterfuck as Naruto's
if I turn my brain off the Chunin Exams is a fun arc but man does it make zero goddamn sense as an actual in-universe concept based on how it's presented

>>282938442
>it is
lol

american voice actor for Naruto Uzumaki is just plain awesome

>>282932730 (OP)
BECAUSE

ONE ZERO SIX CENTIMETRES

Maybe the vibe of naruto was more to your taste. Especially the fact that the entire world felt unique, it was not overly goofy, the music was great, villains actually felt threatening, the dynamics between characters was also compelling, the show had multiple references to japanese folklore and otjer things, etc. One piece has great writing but Narutos vibe is different/more serious. Better writing doesnt always mean youll enjoy it more, its a mix of everything that draws you in. Also naruto is more storylike whereas one piece tends to have similar style arcs. As much as I love one piece, there will never be another show that had the vibe of naruto

op is just good at build up
everything is trash i never been amazed by anything revealed in op
roger the elders power up so many disappointments
i think ppl just like op based on what they make op in thier head

>>282932730 (OP)
BECAUSE

SAH SOO KAY

IS REALLY COOL

>>282938839
I will never not seethe about Uchihax and all the bullshit they pulled out their asses. Konan deserved better.

because nobody in OP could even touch Madara Uchiha...

i hate pinkshit as do many
any character that in op that is universally hated?

>>282938711
>Because Naruto has better character writing
This retard who has no backstory and whose power is shooting fucking ropes from his hands is more enjoyable than the vast majority of characters in Naruto.

>>282938136
The actual fight was a tie. Sasuke only lost ideologically because he finally succumbed to battered housewife syndrome when he realized how persistent Naruto really is.

>>282934082
bc db doesn't revolve around sucking bejita cock like naruto does to saucegay

Naruto is like the In-and-Out of manga, their burgers and fries are solid 8.
OP is more like McDonald, hugely popular but the older it gets the worse it becomes even the burgers taste like rotten cardboard.

>>282939084
It was a tie because Naruto held back and used a more or less vanilla rasengan.

>>282938896
This looks so stupid now. Didn't age very well

>>282938711
>not enough depressed emos!!!
Law (AKA the most boring character in One Piece) is made for you.

>>282938728
>roger literally got on his knees and begged WB to let Oden join his crew
>army that stands against the current, corrupt political system is filled with queers
>onsen scene shows a male larping as a female entering the same bath as actual female characters. Vice versa also happens
Nah, still gayer

>>282939251
It's like 10 years old and still better choreography than anything one piece shit out

>>282938780
It never feels like she's phoning it in. Always sounds raw and earnest.

Whenever I turn on One Piece, the most enjoyable parts of the story are when they get back on the boat and they interact with each other. If the most enjoyable part of your story is when the conflict is over, then your stories suck and are too ass. The only time it was remotely entertaining was either the early stuff or Dressrosa.
In Naruto, a good chunk of the story happens within the same location and it feels like a home. It's comforting. Naruto was also pretty consistent from the beginning to the timeskip.

>>282932730 (OP)
>significantly better written

>Call Naruto a faggot
>The only times Luffy can be aroused by a woman is when Usopp is around
>The AAIIIE face when Ace dies
>The awful beginning
>Fights are Luffy doing the equivalent of Energy Beam spam like in Dragonball
>The inferior music score
Naruto mogs

For starters,Naruto has objectively the better characters and girls and the author doesn't turn them into gay clowns.If a character is cool he gets plenty of screen time instead of doing nothing for 300+ chapters

I never got into One Piece because of the goofy visuals. But I loved the aesthetic and setting of Naruto. It's just cool.

I think Naruto is also a bit easier to relate with than Luffy. He was bad at school, played pranks on his teachers, falls behind Sasuke, etc. Children can connect to that.

>>282938883
Konan-chan was a good girl, I would've have liked to see her take up the mantle of Amekage in earnest

>>282939984
She gave three girls a promotion just to send them to their deaths.

maybe because the world feels real and draws you in

all i want to know what is the one piece, they might never reveal it anyway

its funny because i prefer pirates to ninja, but prefer Naruto

>>282940007
she could not oppose Nagato.

>>282932730 (OP)
kill yourself narutard

>>282939720
The choreography isn't the problem, it's the writing. While it's cool to see Madara styling on all the allied shinobi forces by himself, it's just a total waste of time. Someone logical like him would have known the futility of relying on taijutsu to deal with a massive army and opted to use large AoE fire ninjutsu or genjutsu the entire time.

TSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


nade

>>282940025
>all i want to know what is the one piece, they might never reveal it anyway
This is another thing. It helps that Naruto has a defined endgame.

>>282940113
This. I don't think Madara has business doing kung fu on that level like he's Might Guy or something.

>>282940113
more than he was logical, he was prideful and liked having fun (him getting so turned on when Hashirama appears, only to throw a fit bc he's not important to him at that moment). so he came in, having been nearly dead and then dead for a decade plus, styled on some fodder, and then did exactly what you said he should do with meteor hax.

he was logical but also an emotional child reborn in a limitless body. he wanted some fun before destroying the world

>>282932730 (OP)
naruto, especially part 1, has way higher highs

>>282940185
Post her milk

>>282939204
That implies that OP was never good and is a ZOG manga. Which is a non-sequitur.

>>282940314
Enies Lobby is a higher high than anything in Naruto

>>282940399
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EMy_ZGAdU0

>>282932730 (OP)
how is it better written kek
It's always
>bad guy exists on island
>damesel in distress asks rufy for help
>bad guy gets beaten up

>>282936529
>politics are great
it's extremely basic if present at all and Naruto's Kage council arc mogs them.
WG being comically evil isn't great politics, it just so happens to resemble reality. There is no complexity to how yonkou or gorosei is structured, and "random island have their own tyrants" doesn't change that either

>>282938996
Let me guess, he/his hometown/family was made suffer by a villain and he wants to get revenge

>>282935457
>Recent OP has got sakuga animation
Not him but I would argue that even now it's not really that well animated.

>>282932730 (OP)
I bet you can't even tell why you think One pIece is better witten. You just think that because it's the popular thing to think.

>>282938728
Imagine not knowing what fraternal love is.

>>282932730 (OP)

Naruto is edgier in a good way.
Naruto is actually a really pessimistic series whereas OP is too optimistic for its own good. When OP gets dark it's like goofy creepy pasta dark and OP is full of one dimensional mustache twirling villains whereas most of Naruto's villains are actually smart and arguably right about everything.

>>282932730 (OP)
That's how I feel about bleach. I like all 3 of them but bleach just hits different even though one piece is objectively the best written one of the bunch

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto hasn't dragged on for 20 years and Naruto's timeskip wasn't as bad as One Piece's is.

>>282932730 (OP)
>yet another retarded newfag doesn't understand concept of preferences

>>282932730 (OP)
OP isn't better written simply by the virtue of being a 1000+ fucking chapters long story. All the writing has been lost more than decade ago. By now it's a hubris of hundreds plot lines, most of which are of mediocre quality.
Naruto has more cohesive, well rounded story where most things hit just right. It's absolutely better written than OP.

>>282933879
Do you also have one for Enis Lobby vs Whole Cake?

>>282941544
OP isn't well written but compared to the dumpster fire that is Naruto, it might as well be considered high litrature.

>>282941166
actually no, he worked for a ship building company that was infiltrated by glowies. Takes him some time to realize what's going on and then helps Luffy and co to do what they were doing

>>282932730 (OP)
Despite the flaws Naruto is pretty much the streak of great moments and memorable characters throughout 700 chapters.
It helps that Kishimoto's panelling and storytelling are exquisite. Its very nice to look at and easy to follow and it hits you right on time and in the eight way usually.
OP is weirder and harder to follow.

>>282932730 (OP)
One Piece has dogshit pacing and is plagued with worse filler than Naruto of all fucking things

>>282941700
the best thing about naruto filler is that you can skip most of it easily, while one piece just drags the scenes out

>>282940441
off screen training power ups dont mog anything

>>282940047
I'm pretty sure he didn't tell her to do that, she just decided to do it when they came back.

>>282942064
he had lost a body and needed a new one. You think they had no discussion on how to do that? think they hadn't gone through that process before?

One Piece is just as poorly written as Naruto. You probably enjoyed it more because Naruto has some stakes and consequences to character actions while nobody ever dies in OP.

>>282932834
You forgot Linkin Park In The End AMVs set to Naruto fighting Sasuke in the valley of the end

>>282939690
Anon, Naruto has a fucking transformation that turns him into a woman for the sole purpose of seducing men. You can try as hard as you want, but One Piece will never be half as gay as Naruto.

>>282932730 (OP)
>despite One Piece being significantly better written?
That's the thing, it isn't.
Naruto is genuinely quite good throughout part 1 and it handled the escalation significantly better than One Piece until near the very end.

The only issue is that it didn't end with Nagato and kept dragging on for many years afterwards and then it didn't end with Madara either, it just kept going.
The parts that people like about Naruto are still quite good by WSJ standards.

>>282932730 (OP)
for me, it's the chakra system.
yeah they break it a ton, but it always still comes back to that.
in one piece, i never have the feeling of "measuring strength". any time rufy wins, it's because of a new move, a new transformation, and we almost never see him training.
naruto is all about training and chakra, from the very beginning. it starts getting weird with sage form, but still good. and then it kinda drops with tailed beast mode, chakra becoming now apparently infinite.
but he still runs out of chakra at the end, and him and sasuke end up having a fist fight.
so its the "powers" side of thing, it's done much better and makes you curious of how they're going to push it.
one piece is literally "i suddenly have new powers"

>>282936683
You need to let go of the past.
The people you are complaining about, they don't exist anymore. So with the distance of time, maybe now you can look at Naruto in a less emotional and more objective way. And objectively speaking, Naruto was immensely influential in WSJ, most modern Jump manga borrows heavily, heavily from Naruto. You can say that that's bad and that's fine, but you cannot deny the impact it hand.

Also, the Narutards of old, they're still better than what we are dealing with today on this board. Believe it.

>>282942300
>You can say that that's bad and that's fine, but you cannot deny the impact it hand.
>Also, the Narutards of old, they're still better than what we are dealing with today on this board. Believe it.
These two things are connected

>>282942449
You are illitereate.

>>282942535
Naruto's zestiness was leaking out into his shadow clone.

>>282942449
No, they are not, because they are statements on fundamentally different things. The former refers to the influence Naruto has had on new shounen manga being made, while the latter refers to the normalfaggots and crunchyroll casuals.

>>282942876
it was supposed to be the 'feminine side' he taps into for the sexy jutsu. I found it amusing how it resulted in a female VA who is voicing a man trying to sound like a woman.

>>282942911
If you can't see it, you're part of the problem.

>>282939897
Naruto has the ability to turn into a woman btw

>>282942934
I don't think that Jujutsu Kaisen lifting narrative ideas from Naruto is the reason for MALtards and schizos, but feel free to believe whatever you want.

>>282932776
One Piece is too old for this. More like the Spongebob of anime.

Rick & Morty would be something like One Punch Man, for some reason it seems to satisfy the same type of audience.

>>282942300
Actually most of them borrow from Bleach.

>>282934082
With all this sasuke glazing I have no idea why the manga is even called naruto. What's the point of naming it after a guy who's not even stronger/better/cooler than some edgy fuckboy and gets regularly fucked by said fuckboy. He can't do shit without him in the end, he can't beat him in a fight, he didn't get the girl. Calling it "naruto" without making Naruto the actual mc is so gay.

>>282940007
Tsunade promoted Shikamaru to chunin and sent him on an S rank to his death (he was 100% screwed and was going to die in his fight)
Ajisai might have been sent on a mission that was difficult but doable but she fucked up and Konan made the best of it.

>>282943035
>Tayuya missed out on a prime husband candidate
her loss

>>282939897
>Naruto has objectively the better characters and girls
>If a character is cool he gets plenty of screen time instead of doing nothing for 300+ chapters
The lack of self-awareness in this post is overwhelming, One Piece haters are something else.

>>282943066
Died before ever getting a boyfriend, Kishimoto really hates women to a degree that I kind of respect it.

>>282943087
I could have saved her

>>282942978
it's both, really
Nobody borrows from One Piece though.

>>282943087
Tayuya got off easy.

>>282943115
>what is Gash Bell?
>what is Fairy Tail?
Damn, even shit like Black Clover has some of the One Piece spirit in it. I don't know why you fags love to be so biased about this series. I get it, you don't like it, but I don't see why you have to be so petty.

>>282943128
Not as bad as her...

>>282932730 (OP)
>one piece
>better written
lmao

>>282943291
Alive but forever alone?

>>282943373
Slowly wasting away, lamenting how her IT dream will never become reality

>>282943446
In Kishimotos view that probably is worse for a woman than being tortured and humiliated for days, then killed.

>>282943446
>has an eligible bachelor in her employ and by her side 24/7
>never considers him
her own fault

Chojuro or Suigetsu could've fixed her

They hated her because she was realistic...

>>282943555
I hate her because she's the only girl allowed in any marketing these days

>>282932730 (OP)
Dislike of flashbacks?

Sakura simply lacks certain traits that are required in classice beloved characters

>>282943219
>equally popular as the most popular series
>while having an unusual aesthetic and a tone/essense unique to itself
It's easy to understand. People hate things that are different, especially the most autistic weebs who try to burn anything that doesn't fit their idea of “anime.”

>>282932730 (OP)
I enjoy them both. 2000s Shonen was built different

>>282933240
It can not be overstated how much Naruto shit itself as hard as it did upset me

>>282943077
Is he wrong though? Oda doesn't even pay attention to the main characters anymore, they always get sidelined for the local islander who won't ever do anything useful. Just look at the strawhats:
>Zoro
Hasn't had a meaningful character moment since Thriller Bark. It's just been aura farming ever since. Wano should have been his arc but he didn't get anything. He actually fell behind Luffy instead and bottled it at the end of the arc. And then there was the Money etc which was character regression
>Sanji
Had his moments in WCI, I'll give Oda that one. Other than that he's been flanderised and is now a perverted pedo whereas he was more of a gentleman before
>Nami
Only good for fanservice, that's all
>Usopp
This nigga got almost no development and stayed a coward for 1000 chapters because 'Elbaf is meant to be where he becomes a man'. Now we're at Elbaf and Robin stole the spotlight. Hasn't done anything worth mentioning since thriller bark. The whole dressrosa thing was a shitty gag and a waste of time, and him gaining haki was an asspull
>Chopper
Somehow more useless than Usopp
>Franky
Egghead shouldn't been his arc and he did absolutely nothing
>Brook
This guy hasn't done shit since he joined
>Jinbe
He had his moments in FI and WCI I guess. His interactions with other crewmembers has been very minimal though
>girls
One piece girls are weak as shit. Hancock and big mom are the only ones who are somewhat competent, and even then Hancock jobbed offscreen to BB while big mom jobbed to law and kid

>>282943555
Has anyone here actually met a person as unpleasant as a Naruto character? It's why nobody can tell me that the writing is good, because they're all extremely terrible people in a way that borders on pure caricature

>>282944685
How are they terrible?

>>282943555
I hate her because she's dogshit

>>282939147
Yeah you're right. Instead it makes him look like a pathetic loser instead
>jobs horrifically to Freeza, goes and crying like a bitch begging Goku to avenge his people
>bums off a woman
>jobs in another timeline
>gets beaten up and humiliated by a woman
>trains hard for a year
>lets Cell get stronger for no reason then jobs again
>fights sperm cells while a child battles the main antagonist
>trains for several years
>lets bad guy control him because he wants more strength, has no confidence in his own strength
>betrays everyone to fight goku one more time, still can't beat him
>blows himself up like a bitch
>turns out goku wasn't even going all out
>comes back and does a 'fusion dance' with another man (gay)
>jobs
He might have been less pathetic if db sucked him off a bit more

>>282932730 (OP)
>One Piece being significantly better written
Is this true?

>>282932730 (OP)
I enjoyed Naruto cause it looked cooler and had fun games and is mostly pretty simple. I got filtered by One Pieces art, too.

>>282943002
Sasuke is the deuteragonist. Don't you know what that means? Naruto still got more screentime and attention. Besides, catching up to Sasuke is one of Naruto's goals. He catches up to him in the end, which shows his development. He doesn't regularly get fucked by him, he stands on his own feet throughout. In fact the whole reason Sasuke left the village was because Naruto was catching up to him and that made him feel like he wasn't improving fast enough. His next fight against Naruto was also the reason he took Itachi's sharingan, because he knew he couldn't beat Naruto without it

>>282944685
What’s funny is that Team 7 in general is easily the worst part of their own story, the side characters are likable in spite of being side characters, but the main characters (usually) skirt being disliked just because the leading role gives them an undeserved shield

>>282940007
>filler

>>282940260
This

>>282940441
>gears, asura, diable jambe and monster point asspulls
>muh boat with a soul
>usopp being a pathetic loser
>sanji being a simp

>>282932730 (OP)
I don't know, you like ninjas over pirates.
Or you just have bad taste.

>>282941576
No. Didn't notice that one desu. If anything I would have said Wano was closer to Enies Lobby

>>282942219
>likes women
>knows that women are a man's weakness so exploits it
>marries a big titty wife
Meanwhile
>the sexiest woman in the world likes luffy
>he sees her naked
>she begs him to marry her
>he has two sexy women on his crew that are half naked constantly
>meet big titted, scantily clothed sluts on every island that start fawning over him within a day
>only gets aroused around Usopp
Sounds gay to me

Dailyramen? Mein hero.

>>282944626
>>Brook
>This guy hasn't done shit since he joined
This is why you fags can't be taken seriously. You just say the most stupid and retarded shit that can only sound convincing to someone who has never read One Piece and you think you've said something meaningful, is just laughable.

>>282944937
Luffy has shown interest in Nami's body more than once, he just doesn't care about getting married or being in a romantic relationship. Naruto became obsessed with the man who gave him his first kiss even though he tried to kill him and transforms into a naked woman to get men hard, nigga might be the gayest MC in battle shonen history.

>>282945367
Nta but he was grossed out by that. And he ends up marring a tradwife. Luffy doesn't strike me as the super horny type.

>>282945367
I think that's just Oda being inconsistent.

>>282944937
>marries a big titty wife
You mean the wife he leaves alone all day and night while he's locked up in an office doing work that someone else or even a shadow clone could do?

>>282945542
Not canon. And even then, that's only when he became Hokage.

>>282944803
even team 7 is ok on their own, when they aren't interacting with each other

>>282932730 (OP)
Better fights, anime, music, games, and art.

>>282945448
>Luffy doesn't strike me as the super horny type
He isn't, but he's not completely oblivious to a woman's body either.
>>282945478
About what? Are you really taking that SBS joke answer seriously?

>>282945448
>he ends up marring a tradwife
A beard*
Naruto does not have any interest in Hinata and objectively prefers Sasuke.

>>282945664
Well, until he impregnates a girl or something, I'll just say he doesn't care too much for that stuff.

>>282945747
If he didn't, he wouldn't have married her or started a family. Stop projecting your gross fanfic nigger.

>>282945588
That's part of gaiden and the movie

>>282943555
>le realistic Sakura
No one has ever actually met a woman like Sakura in their lives. She's not "realistic" outside of the lens of deluded /r9k/cels.

>>282945810
The movie isn't canon. And it's not mentioned in Gaiden.

>>282943555
>such a cunt that even her seiyuu said she didn't like her

>>282945816
Nobody has ever actually met a woman like [insert anime character] in their lives. She's not realistic outside the lens of [insert personal vendetta]

>>282945783
>If he didn't, he wouldn't have married her or started a family
Have you never even heard of a beard? There are a lot of gay men with that exact story because they want to keep up appearances. Naruto has no sexual interest in Hinata and willingly ditches everything to go to Sasuke at a moments notice, Sasuke does the same as he abandoned his own family for a decade and yet is still willing to go to Naruto at any instant it's required by the plot.

Unironically if someone actually met a girl as bad as Sakura I would’ve expected some kind of storytime of that incident, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen here

>>282944750
Hasn't been true since Dressrosa.

>>282945827
Both chapter 700 and gaiden hint at Naruto being an absent father.

>>282945628
Kakashi and Naruto are fine together.

>>282945892
I'm not deluded enough to give you a genuine response. God, I hate mutts.
>>282945926
Chapter 700 resolves Borutos issue with his dad. The film has it due to Kishi inserting his own experiences as a father. Gaiden also doesn't outright have it.

>>282945920
>Dressrosa
What's the consensus on this

>>282945954
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_(companion)
I'm sorry you're such a zoomer you can't comprehend what is happening. Naruto and Sasuke can't be straight because they don't have any interest in their wives and prioritize men every single time without fail.

>>282945926
>absent father
No? Absent father means he never shows up and talks with you.
Naruto did that much. Like how spoiled are you anon?

>>282945827
Boruto movie?
Then the movie where Nart ends up with Hinata is also a fanfinction. I mean, it really is.

>>282945992
Holy projection faggot

>>282945980
Last arc where all the Mugiwaras were useful.

>>282946020
That movie is canon. The Boruto movie was replaced by the Boruto manga that wasn't ever canon. Also no its him going through his memories.

>>282946049
It literally contradicts canon events to prop up Naruhina.

>>282946067
Naruhina already happened in the manga by the time the movie was released. Kishi had Pierrot change the film multiple times until he was satisfied, too.

>>282946092
I don't know about the chronology, but Naruhina is only canon in the tiny little bonus chapter where they go on a shitty date and Nardo forgets his wallet.

>Kishi had Pierrot change the film multiple times until he was satisfied, too.
Doubt. He never cared about the shipping, and like I said, that movie literally makes shit up and ignores canon characterization to make the ship canon.

>>282946175
>chapter 700 release date: 24 November 2014
>the last release date: 6 December 2014
>Doubt
https://youtu.be/EW4Okgni9us
0.09 seconds
He only cared about the endpoint. Not the road to that point. You sound like a certain shipper.....

>>282941421
Even though One Piece's TS was a huge drop in quality, Narutos TS is arguably much worse. OP managed to find its footing again in Whole Cake Island, and everything since has been enjoyable to varying degrees. Naruto TS just got progressively worse and worse until the only real enjoyment came from making fun of how bad it was. OP hasn't finished yet, so maybe things can go south, but considering Oda had planned the ending a long time ago, there's less a chance of it going off the rails like Naruto did.

>>282943835
Even at 13 when I started getting serious I stopped thinking all anime looked the same. Heck I think everyone starts realizing that.

>>282946368
OP lost it's footing again with Wano and didn't find it until Elbaph.

>>282946347
So? Naruhina isn't canon in chapter 700. The only thing Kishi made for the ship is that 2 page bonus comic about their crappy date, apparently released in the movie's guiebook. So it's not even official manga content. I don't know what you're trying to prove here, but I don't care enough to click on that video. You sound like a schizo.

>>282946614
>Naruhina isn't canon in chapter 700
What? They've got two kids in that. How is it not canon?
>I don't care enough to click on that video
It's Kishimoto himself saying he got them to change stuff until he was happy with it. You lost 10+ years ago dumbass.

>>282946693
You lost 10+ years agoby watching this crap.

>>282945954
>Chapter 700 resolves Borutos issue with his dad.
It doesn't?
>>282945995
I meant absent in the way the movie portrays him.

>>282946721
I accept your concession. Your anus hasn't recovered kek
>>282946731
It does. He sits him down for a chat, and he's not mad or upset anymore after it. It's pretty quick.

>>282946614
>Naruhina isn't canon in chapter 700.
Explain Himawari existing there.

>>282945936
They didn't even interact that much as the other Naruto trained under.

>>282946769
>and he's not mad or upset anymore after it.
You really think that would be it??? Lmao.
Not only is that not how children work, but Gaiden straight up has Boruto still resenting Naruto, so no, the issues weren't resolved.

I feel like One Piece will have an innately better ending than Naruto as long as it’s lasting legacy is not being shipfaggotry like the latter (insert pirate ship joke here)

>>282946838
The one whose lasting legacy is butthurt shippers is unironically Bleach. At least I still see people talking about the Akatsuki, Itachi and Pain here.

>>282946812
>You really think that would be it
It was it in that chapter. As their was no indication of anything else. Gaiden is also a sequel mini series and thus isn't canon.

>>282946769
Anon, just because Naruto got his son to calm down and behave at that moment doesn't he completely forgave his father for everything.

>>282946770
I mixed up chapter 699 with 700. I still don't know how that proves anything. Yes, Kishi shat out a ton of crackships to prepare ground for the spinoff. The Naruhina movie is still an ooc fanfiction, and I doubt Kishi gives two shits about the ship.

>>282932776
Nah that's monogatari

>>282946905
>Gaiden is also a sequel mini series and thus isn't canon.
Written by the original author, which means from Kishi's perspective their issues weren't resolved there.
Also, if that was all it took then Boruto would never have those daddy issues in the first place.

>>282946933
It was just a parallel from chapter 1 Naruto, who was also painting all over the monument. Post ending is when they added the hatred thing. Kishi said he did it because he experienced similar stuff irl.

>>282946987
You are NOT comparing the arc chapter 1 Naruto had to go through with the pep talk Boruto got in 700.

Isnt the Boruto anime supposed to be coming back real soon?

>>282946981
Boruto only has those issues because kishi self inserted what he was going through at the time.
>>282947028
I am as kishi is known to parallel stuff constantly. Pretty sure even the chapter names are the same too.

>>282946987
>Post ending is when they added the hatred thing
Boruto literally talks about Naruto being absent in chapter 700.
It was always there, people just didn't think much about it because it didn't take center stage.

>>282947057
>Boruto only has those issues because kishi self inserted what he was going through at the time
And those issues existed since his debut, post ending material didn't create them.

>>282947053
With the way nuPierrot is operating,
Bleach > BC > Boruto

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto's an edgier story than One Piece and that's what sells it for a lot of readers. As an easy example Naruto kills a crazy amount of its villains over the story, even smaller villains who might not be as evil get spared they must die. Even most of the cute ones who would make it out in other manga like Kanon just die. One Piece has its villains get beat up, shake their fist at the Straw Hats, and linger on as a loser relegated to background appearances for the rest of the series. If you like the edge Naruto has One Piece beat even if Naruto is a complete hot mess of a story.

>>282947062
He's not an absent father. Absenr fathers don't live with the kids, etc. He even tells him i can't hang out now, meaning he did prior to taking office.
>>282947105
Post ending made them way more hostile. In 700, even after he's caught, he doesn't lash out.

>>282947171
You realize that's the case because him Missing hima's bday was portrayed as the last straw, right?

>>282947242
That was in the movie that wasn't canon. And it's entirely out of character anyway. So it's irrelevant.

Also he was lashing out before that scene happened.

>>282947265
It's entirely in character because Himawari wasn't literally him enough.

>>282947349
No but kek

>>282947296
It was on the level of him pointing the kage Rocks beforehand.

>>282947369
No, it wasn't. He literally called the previous era shit near the start of the movie. He was outright hostile in that entire scene. He was nothing like that in 700.

People will make every excuse in the book for Naruto ignoring his would-be wife's confession for 2 years straight but will curl up and cry over Naruto Missing a few birthdays and being slightly shat on for it.

>>282947447
>He literally called the previous era shit
He was right

>>282947447
Boruto bad mouth and disgraced the previous hokages in chapter 700.

>>282947502
He was wrong. And should watch his mouth!
>>282947471
I don't like how that happened, either. That dynamic was better in part 1.
>>282947538
He painted childish words on them. In the movie, he's super hostile.

We need Naruto One Piece crossover of some kind. Bamco keeps fucking those up

>>282932730 (OP)
>One Piece being significantly better written?
Nice bait, faggot.
Define better written?
Story not having an asspulls or plot holes?
Characters arc being well done from start to finish?
Characters being extremely memorable and standing out in terms of personality and dialogues/monologues?
Story being interesting and gripping your attention all the time?
Plot twists being great?
Story flowing just right with the great pacing?
Story being well rounded and finished properly?
I am positive that in most of these things Naruto is objectively better than OP, so yeah, you are full of shit.

>>282932730 (OP)
It's not better written tho. Naruto, with 700 chapters, did what One Piece wishes it did with 1300+

>>282932730 (OP)
I think Naruto has a more interesting setting and concept than One Piece but something is very clearly "off" with the way it conveys a story when literal millions of people got gaslit into thinking it has themes that never actually existed, you would swear that Lee was the main character who trounced the greatest people in the world through sheer effort based on what the fandom says rather than what actually happens (he constantly gets folded like a chair as a prime jobber)

>>282945664
Why does Nami dress like a slut?

>>282947905
he's a Whorf. exists to establish how tough the villain is. Same as Tien and later Vegeta in DBZ

>>282947905
The hard work beats natural talent thing is such a bizarre case of media literacy to me because I can't think of any other shonen where people collectively brainwashed themselves into a message that wasn't there, Naruto exists in this anomaly where it's like everyone that watched it came out with an entirely different version of it in their heads

>>282947905
What you're talking about is selective memory, which I think happens a lot when people 'marathon' a show and pick out the things they thought happened.

Themes can exist independant of authors intention but when that happens they're dropped shortly after existing or are contradicted which is what happened with naruto.

You could say Naruto also had the theme of militarization of children but this likely wasn't the intention so it isn't taken seriously by the narrative.

>>282947930
Because it's hot.

>>282948167
Luffy better be tapping that butt every night

>>282948085
>You could say Naruto also had the theme of militarization of children but this likely wasn't the intention so it isn't taken seriously by the narrative.
To be fair, you could argue that's more of an actual theme, from Tsunade's kid brother exploding in a flashback because of grimy war shit all the way up to the exposition dumping of Hashirama and Madara's backstories near the end of the story where kids were constantly fighting in brutal wars that fucked them up mentally, meanwhile far too many people somehow come to the conclusion that early Naruto as a character was somehow this paragon of hard work despite beating a chunin in chapter/episode 1 while not even knowing what Chakra is

>>282948222
Also that fact that LEE FUCKING LOST HIS FIGHT WITH GAARA

>>282947905
In my experience, that's mostly an American/anglo thing. I once asked a frog, and he had no clue what I was talking about.

>>282948077
its because most people never watched past thechuunin exams saga.

>>282948195
He can only get a stiffy if Usopp is around.

>>282948331
So then let him watch.

>>282947905
I'll always agree that Naruto being part of some predestined reincarnation cycle is silly bullshit that doesn't add to story at all, but I'll always laugh at the people that think it undermines this idea that he was always a scrappy hardworker despite the fact that he borderline always needs Kurama to bail his ass out of trouble

>>282948393
He had both. He worked hard but sometimes needed help. Plus, he was able to learn combat shit super fast, which isn't normal. So I considered him talented to some degree.

>>282944983
What has he done? Go on.
>thriller bark
Needed to be rescued by Zoro, watched the strawhats from thy sidelines for most of the arc
>Sabaody
Contributed nothing
>FI
Beat up some fodders
>Punk Hazard
Genuinely can't remember
>Dressrosa
Fucked off mid arc
>Zhao
Nothing, but tbf nobody did much that arc
>WCI
Copied the poneglyph. Fine
>Wano
Beat up some fodder then became Robin's human crutch
>Egghead
Nothing
>Elbaf
Ok I guess he messed up Gunko's mind there

So he did a couple minor things, fine. But do you realise he first appeared around chapter 450? We're currently on chapter 1162. It's been 700 chapters. Naruto ended at chapter 700. His contribution to the story despite how long he's been around is abysmal

>>282932776
>POPULAR THING BAAAAAAD!

>>282948222
What I mean by contradictions or 'dropped shortly after existing' is that events that involve child exploitation but result in victory are genuinely celebrated and follow downtime, usually involving comedic ramen eating and sexy no jutsu antics instead of seen from the outside as reinforcement of the status quo in a broken world that would even use child soldiers in the first place.

I think it's more likely that Kishimoto just wasn't thinking about it too hard as he would finish one issue only to begin the outline the next.

all that needs to be said about Naruto

>>282944685
>Has anyone here actually met a person as unpleasant as a Naruto character?
It's called High School. Only everyone is also a trained assassin...
>>282943555 is right.

>>282947905
>>282948077
>>282948085
>>282948309
I think it's a combination of a lot of things, people genuinely liking that plotline, channels being inconsistent with the episodes being airred which caused most people to no look past chunin exams or part 1 in general, AND the fact that Kishimoto straight up flip flops whenever he wants Naruto to be a genius or not, like, Tsunade arc and early shippuden pretty much go out of their way to Hammer on your head how much of an untalented shitter Naruto is.

>>282943587
Hinata also gets those

>>282946029
Do you enjoy headcanons?

>>282945871
>>282945816
This but unironically

>>282945855
Source?

>>282948935
>had an arc where he was more active than any secondary character in Naruto who isn't named Sasuke
>your complaint is that he hasn't done anything since joining the crew.
One Piece must be the series with the most dishonest haters. It's as if you faggots only follow the series to find more reasons to hate it, nothing can be done right for you and everything is an excuse to keep hating.

>>282949446
I wouldn't know, unlike you

>>282932730 (OP)
>despite One Piece being significantly better written?
not after the timeskip it isn't

>>282944685
>the kid who will stick up for you no matter what and will put himself in life of death situations just to bring you home
>unpleasant
If anything he's more bro tier. A clingy messed up bro but still a bro. Kid just has abandonment issues.

>>282938319
Well, Naruto IS a gateway anime of the worst kind.

>>282932776
that's CSM thoughever

>>282937613
Ask me if I care about coming off as intelligent.

>>282943035
Did Jumper drew this? Wouldn't be the first time he draws a girl in this angle.

>>282945816
Every woman that likes sex in the city and is somewhat pretty is like this.

>>282938319
We told you it was a gateway anime of the worst kind but you didn't listen.

>>282932730 (OP)
While I probably prefer One Piece. The fights in it are shit. Yes, even the shadow clone and substitute spam in Naruto is more interesting.

>>282947471
He didn't ignore it for 2 years straight, he was going to ignore her confession and continued interest in perpetuity and it took extraordinary circumstances to artificially engineer romantic scenarios 3 years after Pain by literally looking at memories (just rehashing what happened at the valley of the end, including intimacy from Hinata running out of chakra... Just like Sasuke.)
Hinata has to retread the same ground as Sasuke just to force a ship, which is fascinating.

What do you think he did to get b&?

>>282950699
Let's not act like NaruSasu isn't forced as well.

>>282950802
I don't know who that is.

>>282950829
all of the pairings are forced because the series has no romantic development at all

>>282950897
Which was done on purpose. Kishi said he didn't prioritize that stuff. He gave them some moments in Part 1 and 2, got the film made, and called it a day.

Naruto is objectively worse written. For a simple reason, Kishi never thought out the story. He simply layered the ideas he had on top of each other. Oda constantly lays out the future plot. In Arlong Park, Arlong mentions his conflict with Jimbei 500 chapters before we see it. And there are tons of examples like that. It's just more enjoyable to read a story like this knowing that what the characters are saying makes sense not just in the moment but in the context of the entire story. Considering that Oda writes in the format of a weekly manga, this is quite an outstanding achievement, no matter how much the local retards say the opposite. Plus, Oda is much better at creating engaging characters. In the last arc alone, we have Rocks, Loki, Gunko, and Garling. And these characters already have a fan base. In Naruto, it's the opposite: the closer you get to the end, the fewer interesting characters there are. By the end, no one but Sasuke and Naruto mattered.

In any case, the people here praising the first part of Naruto are right, because Kishi literally copied Hunter's plot. Kishimoto's best writing was literally stolen from Togashi. Just like Bleach, it's a copy of YuYuHakusho.

Who

>>282951229
I see this posted a lot but I don't see how the land of waves arc is anything like HxH. Maybe the chunnin exams at face value but it diverges pretty hard and the rest is nothing like HxH

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto has a better adventure feel to it

>>282951353
OP fags typing furiously rn

is

>shits vs barfs
battle of the shonen retards.

>>282951353
Naruto spends 90% of the manga in his village. Skypiea has more of a sense of travel and adventure than the entire Naruto series. Even Wano is a more interesting location than Konoha. Even though I hate Wano, I literally can't remember anything in Konoha other than the ramen shop and the Hokage's office.

>>282951229
Chuunin exam was an editor you retard

>>282951462
The fact that you gave a serious response to that says a lot about OPfags

>>282951462
Naruto barely spends time in his village during arcs

>>282951122
Imu keeps retconning shit, so Oda is the king of making shit up

Its a pirate manga but has no sea adventure feel to it you know. The mangaka jumped the shark with this Void Century baloney which was a plot device to add depth to Nico Robin.

I'm reading One Piece and just got to Gear 2. I thought you guys said Oda was a master at foreshadowing? Luffy literally pulled this form out of his ass

>>282951349
>the rest is nothing like HxH
Almost all the cool ideas Naruto is praised for are stolen from HxH. The exam, Orochimaru, Akatsuki, Sharingan, Sasuke's rescue arc, brothers conflict. Wave Country is probably the only original one.

>>282951462
hey, naruto spends 90% of his time running through trees. Konoha is a very interesting location that they never actually bother to develop nor explore, which is kind of wild but that applies to every village. Naruto's world building is absolute dogshit beyond the general concepts

>>282951505
>I WAS JUST TROLLING I AM NOT A RETARD NO YOU CAN'T SAY I AM A RETARD DON'T ANSWER ME I WAS TROLLING
The average Naruto fan's IQ is so low that I take everything they say seriously. These people unironically praise Boruto and defend the Kaguya asspull ending.

>>282951598
Naruto still has a more interesting world than One Piece
>DUDE THIS EQUATORIAL BAND HAS ALL THE IMPORTANT STUFF LIKE A VIDEO GAME LOL

>>282951505
To be fair to him, One Piece haters are so retarded that you can never tell when they're serious or just baiting.

>>282951638
Nta but that's horseshit. Normalfag fans shat all over Kaguya and Boruto.

>>282951598
>Luffy literally pulled this form out of his ass
Gear 2 is a stolen ability from CP9. Luffy explains it himself. Plus, Oda never cared about fights. You just get used to it or drop the manga.

>Oda was a master at foreshadowing
By average shounen standards? Yes.

>>282951597
>Orochimaru
Explain

>>282951695
This has been forgotten now. I constantly see people defending Naruto's final arc and calling it a masterpiece. The same thing is happening with Attack on Titan.

>>282951770
And he just effortlessly steals it? Just like that? No training or anything? Jesus christ...

>>282951770
he didn't steal gear 2, he stole the speed trick

Is it just me or all shounen manga degrade in time because what success there is comes from throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks and nobody actually knows what the fuck they're doing so given enough time they all just stop being so lucky? Except for Araki, he seemed to know what went right and what went wrong which is why he made part 7 so good.

>>282951818
No, it hasn't. The only people who defend it are Borutofags. And of course they do. The alien slop is important to the awful spinoff they love. Normalfag fans still despite both. It's why they don't even support any Boruto media past the movie or the SoL stuff in the anime.

>>282951810
This is Hisoka. Both are members of a terrorist organization responsible for the genocide of a local clan. Both secretly infiltrated the exam with their own agendas. Both have developed an obsession with the young protagonist. Not to mention their appearance and behavior. Orochimaru is a copy of Hisoka.

>>282951926
None of that was invented by hxh. Get your back checked, buddy.

>>282951926
Oro is a ninja mad scientist who wanted the Sharingan to learn more jutsu thats all

>>282951926
that's a pretty shallow take. One has backstory with the place he infiltrated, wants the young character for a specific purpose, and is snake themed. The other is clown fight merchant. They also don't really have similar behavior outside of being eccentric in their own ways

>>282951828
>And he just effortlessly steals it? Just like that? No training or anything? Jesus christ...

"I want my training arc in the middle of saving a crew member like in Bleach" type of comment. There are no training arcs at all in One Piece, only behind-the-scenes ones.

Luffy simply adapted someone else's ability using rubber. He created a doping effect by pumping blood. The explanation itself fits logically with his abilities.

>>282951818
>>282951871
The final fight against Sasuke is a masterpiece. But there is no defense for Kaguya herself.

>>282952144
Soru isnt doping its kicking your feet hard then moving fast or some shit

>>282951962
>>282952096
>>282952114
This cope is amazing. But given all the similarities between Hunter and Naruto, it's clear Kishimoto stole more than one plotline. With every new interaction with Narutards, I realize why they were banned here.

>>282951770
>Oda never cared about fights
He definitely used to care more than he does now. Ace vs. Kurohige is one of my favorite fights in the series, and it doesn't even involve a main cast character. What pisses me off is that the same fags who never get tired of saying that One Piece has the worst fights in shonen (I guess they heard it from some YouTuber, idk) are now crying because Oda is leaving most of the fights off-screen. Like, why are you complaining about the lack of something you've always looked down on so much?

Hunter didnt invent edgelord clan members either

>>282952186
Yea. Which is why it instantly got backlash. At least he didn't fuck up the final battle and ending.

>>282952250
>>282951770
Oda used to do decent to good fights. I always felt Bleach and Naruto did fights better but peak One Piece was no slouch. But nowadays we are lucky if Luffy gets a good fight.

>>282952297
That's a damm shame. Fuck I need to get started on one piece soon....

>>282952199
This is crap that can only be mastered through training. Luffy simply cheated by exploiting his metabolism by pumping blood. Lucci noted that he was simply killing his body with this exploit.

>>282952297
I legit don't understand how people think bleach fights are good. A bunch of one sided stomps and no yous until 1 side has to win

>>282952144
And he adapted it way too easily. The CP9 were large threats because of their power, and they were implied to have trained to achieve it. So Luffy just going "fuck it, I'll do it too!" is underwhelming as fuck and feels like Oda needed to hastily find some way to scale Luffy up.

>>282952348
Odas stupid, people like Kuro can move fast without Soru

>>282952250
I understand why Oda is doing this now. If he had written every fight, the manga would never have ended. I just accepted it. I think I lied; Oda cared about the fights, but he never made them a priority. He himself said so in a recent interview. Now, he's simply tired of fights. Gear 5, to me, was a decision driven precisely by the desire to do what he wanted.

DailyKING? My idol.

>>282952392
The fight with Lucci was one of the best in the manga/anime and definitely didn't feel unfair for CP9. Even with Gear 2, Luffy barely won.

>>282932730 (OP)
>ne Piece being significantly better written?
Is it?

>>282952422
Kuro can't control himself. He literally can't see what he's attacking. His quiet step is probably an incomplete form of Soru.

>>282951462
While I do agree that One Piece has a good adventure feel to it, a lot of it is ruined by the full island shots that Oda insists on doing.
>Dressrosa
By showing it in full, we can see that Dressrosa is actually a pitifully tiny country that consists of entirely one very small city.
>Little Garden
Despite the name intending to be ironic, it is an extremely tiny island only about the length of a large seaking skeleton, populated by gigantic fauna that could never sustain a large population given the size of the island and how much they'd need to eat every single day and they are periodically killed for food by the two maniac giants that fight each other every day. The dinosaurs must be inbred.
>Elbaph
We can literally see a castle and its door from the outside island shots, so we know that Elbaph could be entirely crossed in the span of an hours casual stroll. A giant land for giant people couldn't feel less gigantic.

>>282952535
If Oda doesn't show Luffy becoming the Pirate King and kills Imu/Blackbeard to force aliens to appear from the sky to promote a sequel about his son Buffy... But in another case
One Piece will remain better written. Although even aliens and space pirates will be more adequate, because Oda already showed them on the cover.

>>282942177
>not Evanescence Bring Me to Life

>>282952549
Yes and? Arlong can move faster

>>282951926
>Not to mention their appearance and behavior.
They look nothing alike. They are both effeminate and evil, but so is Scar from Lion King and many others. It's a stock villain archetype in stories for boys.

>>282952621
>Despite the name intending to be ironic
>Little Garden
The Little Garden isn't named ironically, but because it's literally a little garden for its inhabitants - the giants.

I can agree with the rest, but it's important to understand that Dressrosa is one of tens of millions of islands. Oda was never good with sizes. Arabasta, according to his calculations, is the size of Australia, but the crew cross it in a couple of days.

There's something interesting about the final villains of Naruto and TMNT.
Naruto's final Villain was Seimei. TMNT's was Lord Dreg. There are seemingly parallels between them.
Seimei was a villain suited with a powerful weapon. So was Lord Dreg. They were the culmination of multiple sources of power. For Seimei it was the Ninja Artisan weapons, and for Lord Dreg it was the most powerful alien worriers in the galaxy.
The way they were defeated was also in similar manners. Neither by the main characters really. But, by former villain/weapons. Seimei was defeated by Gaara and Lord Dreg was defeated by Crangs android.
The heroes only served to preoccupy the villains.

>>282952772
Kishimoto stole the Otsutsuki plot line from this filler character

>>282951229
I never got that obsession of HxH fags over their manga being Naruto's inspiration as if it in any way shape or form give it an advantage.
Naruto has like 5% of shared themes and ideas with HxH, went beyond and differently from it very quickly, expanded shit in own way yada yada yada, and managed to tell worldwide popular story and fucking finish it.
While HxH is where exactly now? In the development hell. I bet Togashi is so slow because every plot he could have think of was already realized by Kishimoto 15-20 years ago.
Pathetic.

>>282932730 (OP)
The journey resonated more with you than a more silly looking adventure
There's nothing wrong with either btw

>>282952621
Dressrosa was fine, it's a city state and the plot didn't need more
I don't remember little garden but sea kings can get extremely large at least
The scale of Wano and Elbaph are incredibly fucked up

>>282953825
Most popular anime in the world.
Most streamed anime every year.

>>282932730 (OP)
A few weeks ago I rewatched some episodes of Naruto that I hadn't seen since I was about 14, like more than 12 years ago. I can't even describe how boring it was, which is weird because when I was a teenager Naruto was the most hyped shit out there, but now it's kind of boring with shitty humor.

>>282954283
I had the opposite experience. episodes like Into Screams and Laughing Shino squeezed some solid laughs out of me when I recently watched them, though I was watching the dub.

>>282952297
>Naruto
Absolutely
>Bleach
Hell no. For an anime with supposed sword fights there are literally no fucking actual sword fights. Fucking Naruto did them so much better, and you can't even say "That's thanks to Pierrots" cause Bleach was made by them too, they just didn't care nearly as much. And other fights in Bleach are OP tier of sucking ass too

>>282933095
One Piece Girls >> Naruto Girls
Naruto pre-timeskip = One Piece pre-timeskip >> Naruto post-timeskip > One Piece pre-timeskip

>>282952297
>I always felt Bleach did fights better.
Ah yes i love having 2 characters fighting in a white background because the author pretty much gave up on drawing them.

>>282953183
So, the Otsosutke were trying to bring back Shibai?

>Hunterfags trying their best to insert their series in a Naruto discussion
Why do these guys have such a complex about Naruto? Togashi didn’t invent villain groups and tournaments, hell he used the same tournament shit 3 times in his first mainstream series Yu Yu Hakusho. Hisoka is a loser pedo fightfag that ducked Netero, Orochimaru isn’t anything like him. They aren’t even similar

>all the crews have no trouble navigating the sea
>we are someone supposed to act like Nami is anything special
Pointless character praises to the high heavens because OP needs the woman card to feel special, cause most of their women aren’t good looking. Black Clover mogs, Fairy Tail mogs.

>>282954283
Fancuts of the series these days tend to be a better experience than the original anime run.

>>282944803
Only the cloud ninja are likable

>>282955071
particularly the cool oneesan Samui

>>282955102
Well. For a couple of reasons.

>>282944803
>What’s funny is that Team 7 in general is easily the worst part of their own story
It's the same with strawhats right now to be honest, the flashback only proves this

>>282955131
Same thing with Bleach.

>>282952297
You’re right about Bleach but Nardo fights are boring as fuck

>>282955102
Well that comes with being a top 3 waifu

>>282955239
>trying to downplay the cool tactical elements of stuff like Neji vs the spider guy, or the flash of Naruto vs Sasuke

>>282932730 (OP)
>One Piece despite One Piece being significantly better written
Kek, lmfao even.

>His morals are never tested
>He doesn't know 99% of what's going on in every conflict he's in
>Constantly plot armored out of every fight
>Constant asspull power ups
>Annoying laugh, facial expressions, mannerisms
Luffy is the most insufferable shonen protagonist I've ever seen and it's amazing how many Oda cultists will tell you that he's some amazingly well written character on par with some of the greatest works of literature.

>>282954885
>all the crews have no trouble navigating the sea
Each crew has a navigator.
>like Nami is anything special
She saved the crew with her skills countless times. Without her, they wouldn't have escaped Enies Lobby, gotten to Skypiea, or reached Fish-Man Island. No other crew besides the Straw Hats had so many adventures.
> Black Clover mogs, Fairy Tail mogs
This is literally the low-bottom trash of shounen. Robin is written and looks better than any of the Black Clover characters. And Oda doesn't even have to sexualize her, she'll still be great. If you take the boobs and asses out of Clover or Fairy Tail, those mangas will die.

>>282954637
>One Piece pre-timeskip >> Naruto post-timeskip > One Piece pre-timeskip
Uh????

One Piece has better worldbuilding but it has zero interest in character outside of maybe Luffy, Whole Cake Island was the ultimate proof of that.

>>282932730 (OP)
Because one piece is shit post timeskip whenever the focus is on the strawhats.

>>282954637
>>282955971
*>One Piece post-timeskip
The only good thing about post timeskip One Piece is Nami and Robin fanservice.

GOAT

>>282932776
>TRVKE NVKE INBOVND
One Piece has actually gone on too long for real though.

>>282955692
>His morals are never tested
Marineford/Water 7. But you haven't read the manga, so you don't know about it.
>He doesn't know 99% of what's going on in every conflict he's in
He always knows the overall context. It's part of his character that he doesn't look for details. Luffy has a high emotional intelligence, which is shown consistently throughout the manga.
>Constantly plot armored out of every fight
Every shonen protagonist has plot armor. They can't die. Luffy has exactly the same amount of plot armor as Naruto or Ichigo. Moreover, he has even more defeats than they do. Neither Ichigo nor Naruto suffered a defeat as crushing as Luffy's at Sabaody.
>Constant asspull power ups
Gear 5 only. And it's a smaller asspool than Barrion Mod or all of Ichigo's forms.
>Annoying laugh, facial expressions, mannerisms
You're just a retard, it happens.
>Luffy is the most insufferable shonen protagonist I've ever seen
Judging by your comments, you're the most unbearable person to be around. No wonder Luffy filtered you so much.
>on par with some of the greatest works of literature
Literally no one said that. Luffy is a simple character, but he works. That's why people read 1,000 chapters with him.

He's much more enjoyable than Naruto or Ichigo. Only Gon deserves to be considered a good protagonist besides Luffy. Although he can be a bit boring for the first couple of arcs.

>>282956264
>Marineford/Water 7. But you haven't read the manga, so you don't know about it.
No. None of this tested his morals in any way. He's not tempted to become a worse person or not believe in friendship.
>Every shonen protagonist has plot armor. They can't die. Luffy has exactly the same amount of plot armor as Naruto or Ichigo. Moreover, he has even more defeats than they do. Neither Ichigo nor Naruto suffered a defeat as crushing as Luffy's at Sabaody
You mean like when he nearly died to Kaido twice? Nearly died to Crocodile twice? How Magellan's poison nearly killed him and how the only person who has the cure just so happens to know Luffy's father? When the straw hats and their ship literally came to life so they could get away from Ennies Lobby? Luffy getting saved from execution by a lightning bolt?
>Gear 5 only. And it's a smaller asspool than Barrion Mod or all of Ichigo's forms.
All of Luffy's forms were asspulls that were made so he didn't lose.
>You're just a retard, it happens.
Luffy fans are retarded.
>Judging by your comments, you're the most unbearable person to be around. No wonder Luffy filtered you so much.
I can't stand badly written characters.
>Literally no one said that. Luffy is a simple character, but he works. That's why people read 1,000 chapters with him.
There's a ton of people who say this. Luffy isn't well written, he's not enjoyable. One Piece is carried by nostalgia and sunk cost.
>He's much more enjoyable than Naruto or Ichigo.
Naruto and Ichigo actually get tested and grow as characters. Luffy never does.
>He always knows the overall context. It's part of his character that he doesn't look for details. Luffy has a high emotional intelligence, which is shown consistently throughout the manga.
He literally falls asleep when most people try explaining what happens to him. When a character doesn't interact with 90% of the world building of the show, I consider that bad writing and superfluous set dressing.

>>282956013
>has zero interest in character outside of maybe Luffy
That's why One Piece has such a crazy number of fans who hate Luffy and only read for Zoro/Sanji/Admirals/Yonko/Mihawk/Garp/Traffalgar Law and dozens of other characters. I read Naruto on-going and was here, no one cared about the characters except Naruto, Kakashi, Sasuke, Madara, and Obito. And there were certainly no separate agenda groups with their own take on the story.

>>282956462
TikTokkers along with hiatus weeks have done a number on the One Piece fandom everywhere.

>>282956456
>He's not tempted to become a worse person or not believe in friendship
Luffy was literally ready to give up on his dream. In Water 7, the entire fight with Usopp was a test of his moral and position as captain.
>You mean like...
Yes, I meant it. All shounen suffer from this. Characters can't die, but they have to act like they can. Ichigo was on the brink of death a bunch of times, Naruto literally died and was saved by Sakura. And the number of times the nine-tailed fox saved his ass is countless. Gon lost his arm and got it back in the same arc. Gon ended up in a coma and it turned out his best friend had tranny's sister, who can grant wishes, and she just cured him.
>Nearly died to Crocodile twice?
Yes. And he was saved by Robin, which contributed to her character progression. The second time, he was saved by the water from Yuba. Which was metaphorical, given the arc's narrative.
>and how the only person who has the cure just so happens to know Luffy's father
It's an incredible "coincidence" that the world's greatest prison contained at least one ally of Dragon, the world's greatest revolutionary.
And it was Bonclay who saved Luffy in the first place.
>straw hats and their ship literally came to life
It was a narrative from Skypiea retard. We knew about the Klabauterman existence from Skypiea, where Usopp first saw Merry's spirit.
>Luffy getting saved from execution by a lightning bolt
Yes, it's a fateful motif. And it was Dragon, not lightning, who saved him. This is obvious to anyone who's read the manga, but not to you; you've only read PirateFolk posts.
>All of Luffy's forms were asspulls that were made so he didn't lose
If that's your argument, I'll pass. Until you come up with a human argument, pajeet.
>Luffy fans are retarded
If everyone you see is a retard in your opinion, then you're probably the only retard here.
>I can't stand badly written characters
Me too, it's great that this doesn't apply to Luffy.


.

>>282956456
>There's a ton of people who say this. Luffy isn't well written
And significantly more people think the opposite. If you're making an appeal to the crowd, then I can do it too. This is not an argument
>Naruto and Ichigo actually get tested and grow as characters
No. Naruto literally didn't find an answer to Pain's question. He literally didn't solve the problem. Pain simply died as a retard and revived the entire village. Ichigo doesn't even have morals. He's a boring schoolboy with a desire to protect his friends. He has no purpose or ideology. Ichigo is a random isekai protagonist level of writing.
>He literally falls asleep when most people try explaining what happens to him
Yes. Because he understands what people need without them having to explain it to him. That's what makes him interesting and different from the moralistic faggot Naruto. When it comes to Luffy's loved ones, he doesn't need a reason to help them. He listens when the situation demands it, like with Boa.
>I consider that bad writing and superfluous
Because you're an retard. Luffy interacts with the world and the characters. And there are a whole bunch of other important characters besides Luffy. You know, not like in Naruto or Bleach, where the supporting cast sucks.

>>282932730 (OP)
Naruto has better villains compared to Wan Piss

>>282956865
>Yes, it's a fateful motif. And it was Dragon, not lightning, who saved him. This is obvious to anyone who's read the manga, but not to you; you've only read PirateFolk posts.
No we still don't know if it was Dragon or just pure luck/fate. But that besides the point. The interesting thing is : Luffy was destined to greatness from that moment on

>>282957160
I love this nigga so much.

>>282956865
>Luffy was literally ready to give up on his dream. In Water 7, the entire fight with Usopp was a test of his moral and position as captain.
This literally does not happen. He goes from feeling sad to immediately getting up and fighting again with no affect on his resolves whatsoever.
>Yes, I meant it. All shounen suffer from this. Characters can't die, but they have to act like they can. Ichigo was on the brink of death a bunch of times, Naruto literally died and was saved by Sakura. And the number of times the nine-tailed fox saved his ass is countless. Gon lost his arm and got it back in the same arc. Gon ended up in a coma and it turned out his best friend had tranny's sister, who can grant wishes, and she just cured him.
Luffy's plot armor is arguably worse than Naruto's.
>It's an incredible "coincidence" that the world's greatest prison contained at least one ally of Dragon, the world's greatest revolutionary.
>And it was Bonclay who saved Luffy in the first place.
Yes, in a world full of billions of people, the person who happened to know the secret cure to Magellan's poison just so happened to be friends with Luffy's father. This is a massive asspull and you're doing a shit job of defending it.
>It was a narrative from Skypiea retard. We knew about the Klabauterman existence from Skypiea, where Usopp first saw Merry's spirit.
And it was an asspull that allowed them to escape and it was given no build up.
>Yes, it's a fateful motif. And it was Dragon, not lightning, who saved him. This is obvious to anyone who's read the manga, but not to you; you've only read PirateFolk posts.
And it was a random asspull that saved him once again.
>If that's your argument, I'll pass. Until you come up with a human argument, pajeet.
Because you can't refute it. Typical Luffytard cope.
>If everyone you see is a retard in your opinion, then you're probably the only retard here.
>L-le no uuuu!

>>282957034
>And significantly more people think the opposite. If you're making an appeal to the crowd, then I can do it too. This is not an argument
Yes, it is. People thinking bad writing is good writing is a problem
>No. Naruto literally didn't find an answer to Pain's question. He literally didn't solve the problem. Pain simply died as a retard and revived the entire village. Ichigo doesn't even have morals. He's a boring schoolboy with a desire to protect his friends. He has no purpose or ideology. Ichigo is a random isekai protagonist level of writing.
Better than a retard who simply punches everybody and never learns anything. Luffy literally doesn't change, grow or mature at all as a character.
>Because you're an retard. Luffy interacts with the world and the characters. And there are a whole bunch of other important characters besides Luffy. You know, not like in Naruto or Bleach, where the supporting cast sucks.
Literally the entire supporting cast of One Piece doesn't matter now thanks to Gear 5 and Luffy being entirely above them.

>>282956865
>Luffy was literally ready to give up on his dream.
We also still don't even know what this "dream" even is. So it's impossible for me to feel emotionally invested.

>>282954885
>Pointless character praises to the high heavens
Robin is the only female character from One Piece who is universally loved. Nami gets a lot of hate, even from the OP fanbase, despite being a pretty well-rounded battle shonen heroine.
>>282955836
>She saved the crew with her skills countless times. Without her, they wouldn't have escaped Enies Lobby, gotten to Skypiea, or reached Fish-Man Island.
Anyone who has read or watched the series knows that, but most of the criticism about One Piece consists of pretending to be retarded.

>>282957118
>Naruto has better villains
Naruto only has one villain type. A tragic emo faggot who lost his parents in a war as a child and turned evil so Naruto could convince him otherwise.

>>282932730 (OP)
i genuinely cant stomach one piece's artstyle, it's the #1 thing keeping me from watching it

>>282957690
>What are Orochimaru and most of the Akatsuki?

>>282942109
That didn't happen yet.

>>282932730 (OP)
>despite One Piece being significantly better written?
Because you just made this up.

As a 40 years old /a/non, who doesn't like battle shounen, I have only enjoyed 3 of them in my entire life:
Dragon Ball
JoJo Bizarre Adventures and
One Piece.
(in this order).

I tried to get into Naruto. I watched until the batle between Gaara and Rock Lee and dropped after that. I have never got the appeal and I still don't understand why it is so popular.
The battles are not good.
The plot is not good.
The characters are not good.
While in One Piece I became a fan after Sanji's back story.
It was much better before time skip, probably, if it was this level at the beginning I wouldn't be a fan. I like the word building, I don't like the battles and they were much better before Haki.
Back then: A new power every battle. Need to use strategies to win.
Now: Just puch harder, lmao.
But after 24 years reading the same manga, I wont drop it now.

>>282957744
>Orochimaru
emo war orphan
>Pain
emo war orphan
>Konan
emo war orphan
>Itachi
emo war vet
>Deidara
emo orphan
>Sasori
emo war orphan
>Tobito
emo war vet

>>282957506
>This literally does not happen
You are a retard.
>Luffy's plot armor is arguably worse than Naruto's.
0 arguments = you're a retard
>the person who happened to know the secret cure to Magellan's poison
It wasn't a secret recipe. You literally didn't read the manga retard.
>This is a massive asspull
Your existence is an asspull, I find it hard to believe that your mother didn't have an abortion after finding out what kind of retard she was going to give birth to.
>And it was an asspull
Retard doesn't know the definition of the word asspull.
>a random asspull
A father saving his son is very random plot. That's why I'm surprised that your father decided to save your life when your mother decided to have an abortion.
>Because you can't refute it.
You have no arguments, pajeet, and it's funny that your brown hands don't even dispute your belonging to the shit eaters.

>>282957841
This is just confirming for me that One Piece fans hate it when characters don't treat situations like jokes because they aren't used to actual consequences.
>>282957900
And here comes the sperging.

>>282932730 (OP)
Because Naruto is emotionally impactful, enough so that you can easily overlook a bit of bad writing and retconning, and the world is vast and there's plenty of room to go really deep with many characters. Naruto is a deep lake, while One Piece is a shallow ocean spread wide and thin.

>>282933752
He absolutely was, and the power balance between Naruto and Sasuke was constantly shifting, unlike most anime where one character is almost always above the other and there may be like one moment where the balance shifts. Naruto and Sasuke routinely go back and forth between the most powerful characters in the series even now in B*ruto.

>>282957555
>Yes, it is
Stupid pajeet, if the argument to the crowd is valid, then Luffy is a good character, because that's what the majority thinks. And India is also the most disgusting country, which is also a fact.
>etter than a retard who simply punches everybody and never learns anything
>OH NOOO YOU CAN'T BEAT THOSE WHO COMMIT GENOCIDES AND KILL PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO FEEL SORRY FOR THEM AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEY BECAME LIKE THIS!!!
Luffy is the most based protagonist, because he would never forgive the killer of his parents like the moral faggot Naruto. Obito was the coolest guy we all remember
>entire supporting cast of One Piece doesn't matter now thanks to Gear 5
You're definitely a retard. I don't even see the point in arguing further. Naruto ended 10 years ago. Just let it go and move on. Even KNY is better, and it also has endless sad flashbacks justifying moral scum. You will love pajeet.

>>282957729
I genuinely don't understand how some people can despise Oda's art so much and find it so unpleasant. Like yeah, I get that it doesn't have the same mass appeal as other more stylized artstyles, but come on, you guys act like it's the most horrible shit ever put on paper, it's just too absurd.

>>282934421
cope

This nigga thinks OP is well written.

>>282952635
No no, Linkin Park was for Naruto and shone amvs, Evanescence and Nightwish was for Halo mods amvs

>>282957841
It's almost like Naruto is a story about soldiers fighting wars or something...

>>282957925
>This is just confirming for me that One Piece fans hate it when characters don't treat situations like jokes
Some people just don't like seeing the same character archetype repeated over and over again because they don't have the taste range of a 14 year old boy in a edgy phase.

>>282957926
I disagree with the world being vast, but otherwise yes, the character writing in Naruto just goes much deeper and has more to discuss, even if it is melodramatic and corny as fuck, while One Piece overall is a more comedic, cartoonish and shallow, and doesn't even bother disguising as anything else, the series is just proudly that. Unironically the best antagonist, Doflamingo, feels like someone who could come from Naruto, except he would be pretty average by its standars.

>>282957925
>they aren't used to actual consequences
Like in the Pain arc, when he revived all of Konoha? Or like in the Shinobi War arc, when Orochimaru simply revived all the fanservice characters? Or like in the Waves arc, when Kishi simply revived Sasuke? Or like in the Sand arc, when Gaara was revived. Or are we talking about the consequences of forgiving all the freaks and terrorists who started the war? Kabuto, who started the war, is now work in an orphanage, lol. Or Orochimaru, who experimented on humans, was allowed into Konoha without a problem; even his child (an experiment), was allowed to attend school. Obito was forgiven for all his genocides. Itachi was made a hero. Sasuke, after betraying the village, was forgiven and became a hero. Naruto should be listed in the dictionary next to "no consequences at all."

>>282955836
>Taking out the booba and ass in Black Clover and Fairy Tail
>implying One Piece doesn’t have any TnA whatsoever with their comical disproportionate designs
You didn’t even deny the main girl in Black Clover and Fairy Tail are more useful and ancillary to their story than Nica and Nami. Robin is a tertiary among the Hats and hasn’t done shit for a good while. She is the only exotic One Piece girl, but
>she is better looking than any girl from Fairy Tail and Black Clover
is just wrong

>>282957926
>and the world is vast and there's plenty of room to go really deep with many characters
Naruto's depth = Here's another sad, emo ninja whose parents died in the war. He became evil until Naruto convinced him otherwise. Isn't that profound?

Doflamingo is unironically more interesting because he mocks the trope of the sad child over the war. Oda doesn't try to justify his actions; he portrays him as the sick psychopath he would be in real life. The sad emo ninja archetype works if you're 12 years old.

>>282958278
>in Black Clover and Fairy Tail are more useful
No sane person would read this shit. It's literally diarrhea on paper. All I know is, I've never seen a discussion of FT or Black Clover fem characters without the context of fanservice. And I constantly see people naming Robin or Nami as their favorite female characters. And it's usually other women who hate fanservice most of the time.

>>282957690
Zabuza a mercenary
Haku a child soldier
Gatou a politician
Orochimaru mad scientist
Kabuto autistic observer
Deidara schizo artist terrorist
Sasori God complex Puppeteer
Sasuke amoral revenge seeker
Kakuzu a greedy old fuck
Hidan religious schizo
Itachi very autistic Konoha nationalist
Kisame Bored for the mission autist
Tobi a troll
Konan ideological schizo
Pein/Nagato ideological schizo
Obito Incel omnicidal maniac
Madara Divinity seeker
Indra Ootsutsuki Im evil because fuck you
White Zetsu a Kaguya victim
Black Zetsu literally Kaguya trying to restore herself
Kaguya Just doing her job
Toneri Revenge seeking schizo
Momoshiki/Kinshiki Just doing their job
Sumire Child Nuke
Deepa Psychopath
Delta Psychopath
Code Ootsutsuki simp
Boro Same as Code but not as extreme
Jigen/Isshiki Doing his job/sticking a middle finger to Kaguya
The Treekin autist trying to understand their existence

>>282958301
>Danzo
>Obito
>Hidan
>Kakazu
>Zabuza
>Kisame
>Madara
>Deidara
>Orochimaru
None of these fit the archetype. Even so, it's a story about a planet embroiled in war where chid soldiers are normal and there's a world war like once every generation. There's a lot of sad angry people who lost someone close to them, that's the point, that war is nasty and makes everyone miserable. One Piece is a retarded kid's show about homosexual looking golems sailing boats, it's not even in the same league as Naruto.

>>282958393
>I’ve never heard seen discussion about Black Clover or Fairy Tail characters without fanservice
Then you don’t know what you’re talking about. Noelle is the default referred to answer for anime fans regarding “useful female characters” in Black Clover that isn’t just a token answer like Nobara. A shit load of women watch Fairy Tail and like the girls as well, I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re wrong and likely don’t consume the 2 series.

Forgot
Danzo Konoha nationalist even more autistic than Itachi
Amado even madder scientist than Orochimaru
Ada and Daemon just normies that are OP

>>282958403
>Zabuza
Became bad because of the war
>Haku a child soldier
Became bad because of the war
>Gatou
Literally who?
>Orochimaru mad scientist
Became bad because of the war
>Kabuto autistic observer
Became bad because of the war
>Deidara schizo artist terrorist
An blank character with one memorable phrase
>Sasori
Became bad because of the war
>Sasuke
Not a villain
>Kakuzu
The least interesting of the Akatsuki. Literally almost never remembered.
>Hidan
He was funny. The depth of the puddle
>Itachi
Pretended to be bad because of the war (retconned)
>Kisame
Became bad because of the war
>Tobi
Comic Relief
>Konan
Became bad because of the war
>Pein/Nagato
Became bad because of the war
>Obito
Became bad because of the war
>Madara
Became bad because of the war
>Ootsutsuki
Pure shit
>Toneri
The movies aren't canon, Ootsutsuki is still shit.
>Boruto villains
It wasn't written by Kishimoto. There wasn't a single villain on even the Gaara lvl.

90% of Naruto's villains follow the same trope. And when Kishi deviates from it, the result is bland and forgettable.

If you want to see diverse, truly deep, and interesting characters, read Hunter.

>>282958278
>Robin, the only exotic woman
>in a world where you have giant women, mermaids, angels, robots, furries...
I don't understand why you OP haters feel the need to get involved in discussions about a series you don't know a damn thing about, It's just pure retardation.

>>282932730 (OP)
Aesthetic/thematically personal spiritual tastes that may change with time. More "realistic" - as in more humanly and cleanly drawn - kung fu fights

Do you consistently enjoy Naruto more? Are you loyally devoted to Naruto because of fanbase wars, even when you're bored of it, or do you allow your feelings to travel between works whenever it feels right? Do you attach a sense of identity to "enjoying Naruto more"?

Unless something hits a ton of your chords and truly stands above all else for you, don't let any series made by another person dominate you. Be inspired by all the parts of each work that inspire you, be taught by all the parts you see flaws in

>>282958449
>None of these fit the archetype
>Obito
>Zabuza
>Madara
>Orochimaru
Naruto fans are truly retarded. They don't even read their own manga.
>it's not even in the same league as Naruto
Naruto's editor-in-chief is responsible for Naruto's success, since Kishimoto, a mediocrity, thinks otherwise. What's the point of me arguing with angry pajeet when Naruto's creator himself acknowledges Oda's superiority?

>>282958601
>How come the wars going on in the world actually impact the characters in the story? They should just, like, ignore it and stuff.

>>282958601
Oro was always a psychopath and likes war actually, he fucking started one with Konoha for the lolz in Part 1

>>282958673
>Did not (because you CAN NOT) refute what I said
>Admitting One Piece is ugly dog shit
I'm glad we're both on the same page now.

>>282958630
They've never read One Piece. They're angry Naruto or Bleach fans who can't accept a reality where no one gives a damn about Naruto or Bleach in 2025. If my manga was destroyed by a shit sequel, and the mangaka shit out Samurai8 that was axed, then I probably would have cried on 4chan too. Naruto is the laughingstock of the shonen. Bleach is even more so; even during the peak of the Big Three, Bleach was ridiculed as the disabled third brother.

>>282958696
A great excuse to repeat the same archetype 30 times. If all that ever happened in the Naruto world was one war, then the story is just boring shit.

>the hunterkek trying to dogpile on this thread
P-please care about Hiatus x Hiatus, guys

>>282958806
>They're angry Naruto or Bleach fans who can't accept a reality where no one gives a damn about Naruto or Bleach in 2025
I guess that's why this thread is almost at the bump limit and there are multiple Naruto threads up right now, because we live in a world where no one gives a damn about Naruto in 2025.

That’s not what an archetype is, sped. Might as well say everyone on the Straw hats is the same because they are all pirates

>>282958769
>we're both on the same page now
I'm not a retard, sorry. To be on the same page with me, you need to be reborn as a genetically healthy human, not a stinking pajeet. I'm glad you have no arguments against depth. Yahagi knew his stuff and understood that Oda was a good writer and Kishimoto was a mediocre. Samurai 8 is a prime example of Kishi's true skill, without his editors.

>>282958871
It's not the archetype for the villains, it's the single commonality that all the characters in the show share, that they've ALL experienced the tragedy of war and yet they everyone walks away with a different idea about how they'd fix their broken world. You sound like a child the way this is so hard for you to understand, also there were three great ninja wars (world ward) not including all of the smaller wars between nations and villages. It's obvious you're just making guesses based on what you read on the internet and have never actually watched or read Naruto.

>>282958880
>P-please care about Hiatus x Hiatus
Hunter will always be better than Shitruto even without an ending.

>>282958885
>that's why this thread is almost at the bump limit
Because of the obvious comparison to One Piece? OP threads are currently the most popular on the board and have been for a couple of years now.

>>282958196
Let's not forget Merry, Igaram, Pell, Conis's dad, Wiper, Franky Family, Pound, Kinemon, Vanderdecken, Sabo, Doflamingo, Gecko Moria, Kanjuro, Spandam, Orochi, Jack, Luffy
all amazing deaths!!!!

>>282959010
>has only 1 overrated arc that is praised
>Hunter exam, Zoldicks mansion, Greed Island Filler and Heavens arena are dog water
Hunterfags can’t hide their blatant autism and insecurity of more popular series

>>282959004
>It's not the archetype for the villains
>it's the single commonality that all the characters in the show share
This is the most important trait they have. It's an archetype. This trait almost completely determines their motivation.
>everyone walks away with a different idea about how they'd fix their broken world
Commit more genocides to make Naruto change your mind in one talk?
>You sound like a child the way this is so hard for you to understand
A Naruto fan calls someone a child... Kishimoto simply didn't know how to write anything other than a tragic war hero because he's incapable of creating interesting conflicts. Naruto has no coherent ideology. He's just a dumb moralist who's for everything good and against everything bad. That's why all these methods of solving problems are meaningless, because they always encounter the most stupid and empty moralism and lose to it. Even at the end of the manga, Naruto didn't find an ideology; he doesn't have an answer to the question every villain asked him. He's simply the main character, and he's the strongest. Naruto is the worst kind of story, where a shallow thing pretends to be profound and philosophical through provocative images of emo ninjas with retarded quotes about peace and war, creating the impression of depth for not mature people.

>>282959056
>Conveniently ignoring the part about multiple Naruto threads up rn
Juan Pissers are so desperate to convince the world their anime doesn't suck. Every time a OPfag enters any thread they screech about how the anime the thread is about is bad and OP is better, yet they can never point to even one good thing about OP, so the thread just becomes 20 people listing every good thing about their favorite anime while OPfags mash their keyboards with tears in their eyes because they inadvertently convinced anyone who read through the thread to start that anime instead of One Piece.

>>282958971
>Samurai 8 is a prime example of Kishi's true skill, without his editors.
Sorry, but nobody gives a fuck about Samurai 8.

>>282942177
>not Numb (rock lee vs gaara)

Reminder that One Piece needed a global pandemic, a lockdown, and a shilled Netflix Series to go over.

>>282952672
nta but there's a very clear difference.
Scar is metro sexual and a bit prissy. Orochimaru and Hisoka are more sexually depraved deviants with sadistic tendencies. Scar is a cowardly loser, not a malevolent abuser. All 3 are gay/queer as fuck, but also very different types of faggotry.

>>282959267
>so desperate to convince the world their anime doesn't suck
Yes, Narutard. We are so desperate...
>about how the anime the thread is about is bad and OP is better
This is literally the topic of this thread retard. The author of the post compared Naruto and One Piece. I never go into non-One Piece threads to discuss it. Stop projecting.
>yet they can never point to even one good thing about OP
Literally marked a bunch of things on top. But you're a blind pajeet who will ignore everything.
>OPfags mash their keyboards with tears in their eyes
Another projection from an insecure Hindu Shitruto fan. Keep crying.
>to start that anime instead of One Piece
I don't care who watches what anime. I actually wouldn't mind if more people rewatched Naruto to realize how stupid it is. Sometimes the childhood memories that this story is built on are deceiving.

>>282958601
I don't see how you can say Haku became bad because of the war. He became bad because of prejudice against his clan. I guess you can say prejudice against his clan was spurned by the war but at the point your argument is that Haku, Naruto, and Madara are all the same archetype. Which they obviously aren't...

>>282958806
I mean, they're free not to read it for whatever reason they have, but don't try to argue about characters or plot points when you don't know shit about what you're talking about. There are plenty of popular series that I haven't gotten into because I'm not attracted to them from a superficial point of view, but I would never try to argue with fans of those series, it would just be too dumb.

Raikage won.

>>282959349
Marketed to tourists.

>>282955131
this one actually angers me because nami, luffy, usopp and zoro have great chemistry, and were the best part of early OP. Nami and Zoro can't fucking stand Sanji around and to this day have never fucking bond with each other. And only get's worse the more characters they add.

>>282955836
>all the crews have no trouble navigating the sea
>Each crew has a navigator.
>like Nami is anything special
>She saved the crew with her skills countless times. Without her, they wouldn't have escaped Enies Lobby, gotten to Skypiea, or reached Fish-Man Island. No other crew besides the Straw Hats had so many adventures.
The issue I've always had with this is the story does a very poor job of making me feel like nami is anything special.

We never see her out navigate someone who's supposed to be some incredible navigator or get a good depiction of navigating some near impossible area. We're TOLD it's what's happening from time to time, but then we meet other pirate crews who had no issue being in the same place and their navigators are complete no-names so it doesn't make Nami feel particularly competent.

>>282956264
>Every shonen protagonist has plot armor.
so is not bad because everybody else does it??
>Gear 5 only. And it's a smaller asspool than Barrion Mod or all of Ichigo's forms.
imagine unironically thinking this.

>>282959788
Yeah, the fifth raikage won

>>282956097
i have never seen a bigger downgrade in anime. From a great character that manages to outsmart her enemies to just a pait of tits eyecandy with a talking cloud.
People only like her because she has gigantic tits

>>282959909
>or get a good depiction of navigating some near impossible area
We were constantly shown her predicting the weather. She steered the crew out of Enies Lobby through a maddening whirlpool that sank the Marine flagships thanks to her skill on a half-dead Merry.
>other pirate crews who had no issue being in the same place
Most other crews won't rescue their crewmates from Enies Lobby or sail to the sky island. Luffy's crew is unique in that it regularly visits places others don't usually go. The Straw Hats travel significantly more than others and are constantly getting into trouble, while other crews usually just sail forward until they get defeated by some Yonko like supernovas

>>282954637
I think the main reason why the girls in One Piece are so good is because you really care about them beyond just wanting to fuck them. The Nami and Robin arcs are the reason why many people became One Piece fans. You love the fanservice, but you also want to see them having great moments because you develop a connection with them beyond simple lust, and that's something not any series can brag about.

>>282960079
Nami has a lot of great moments in the Post Time Skip and is still an enjoyable character, but I guess for you a character is only good when they have a fight against a secondary antagonist in every arc.

>>282959918
>so is not bad because everybody else does it??
This is the genre's default. Hundreds of chapters worth of saga wouldn't exist if the main character were a mere mortal. Frodo had plot armor, too, as did Luke Skywalker. If you want a story without plot armor, watch a crappy slasher where the characters are hacked to pieces.
>imagine unironically thinking this.
Yes. Barrion Mode is literally the worst transformation. Kurama learned nuclear physics to defeat the only opponent in the entire universe who had just a few minutes to live, by squeezing the minutes out of him. It's such a specific transformation for one single situation that it's simply laughable. Not to mention that it cost Kurama his life, who was revived a couple dozen chapters later. Ichigo, with his learning of techniques that take others hundreds of years in a dimension where time doesn't pass, is the same shit. Gear 5 isn't perfect, and Oda could have used more foreshadowing, but this ability doesn't feel specific to a single situation. It fits into the main narrative and theme of the story, and it perfectly suits Luffy's character.

>>282960079
>i have never seen a bigger downgrade in anime
This isn't a downgrade. Nami is still great. She has a great arc on Punk Hazard, where she decides to help the kids because of Bellmere. She has a great moment in FMI where she accepts her past and forgives Jimbei. She has great moments with Sanji and Luffy in WCI. Some of the best character chemistry there is. She has a great moment of loyalty in Wano. Nami, like the other Straw Hats, receive less attention because they're already developed. Oda spent 500 chapters establishing the crew. Now he's fleshing out the world, as the story is more coherent than before the Time Skip, where it was mostly random adventures.

>>282935130
This. Also, better villains.

>>282960142
>We were constantly shown her predicting the weather. She steered the crew out of Enies Lobby through a maddening whirlpool that sank the Marine flagships thanks to her skill on a half-dead Merry.
Again, these don't FEEL meaningful, all her feats appear no-name tier. The marine fleet isn't portrayed as some elite tier group for example, its comprised of a bunch of jobbers and red-shirts. So who cares if Nami can out maneuver them?

>Luffy's crew is unique in that it regularly visits places others don't usually go.
And yet throughout most of the story, their crew ends up meeting people who had to have gotten there with a no-name navigator is my point.

>Most other crews
This might also be the crux of the issue. Sure it's stated "most other crews blah blah blah" but what we're presented on screen is way different.

>>282932730 (OP)
As someone who read the two of them for the first time. One Piece is way more formulaic. The best parts of Naruto are more engaging than One Piece, but the most boring parts of One Piece don't reach the level of the boring parts of Narito

>>282960611
>This. Also, better villains.
Itachi is my favorite character, he's just like me.
By the way, I forgot to attach my photo to the previous post

>>282960719
>He isn't white
I knew it. Naruto doesn't have enough pedophilia and lolis in it for him to be a timmy.

>>282960438
I understand people complaining about Strawhats like Franky or Ussop, because despite having great moments in Dressrosa, outside of that arc they haven't had much time to shine, but complaining about Nami in the post time skip when she's been one of the most solid strawhats since then just feels like complaining for the sake of complaining.

>>282938688
No? I don't self insert as any Naruto character despite liking the series. I aspire to be Sanji, though.

>>282960809
>Naruto doesn't have enough pedophilia
Quite enough. The main reason why Jiraiya started training Naruto was because he wanted to fuck him in the ass.

>>282950802
Joker from P5 and the announcer from Smash

>>282960830
>Franky
Franky's actually pretty cool. He didn't have a single L moment during the entire time skip. His best fight was with Senor Pink. He calmly challenged Yonko and ran her over with his bike. His Gundam form is cool. The scene with him looking at the fresco is literally iconic.

>>282959843
Zorojeet...

>>282932730 (OP)
I don’t know if this is just nostalgia but I really prefer Naruto’s Part 1 foxmodes to the stuff in Shippuden, it’s got an edgier Super Saiyan vibe that I unironically like

>>282960615
>And yet throughout most of the story, their crew ends up meeting people who had to have gotten there with a no-name navigator is my point
This argument is so stupid because if you go down that road, practically any straw hat other than Luffy could be replaced with someone else who could fulfill the same role, or just be removed from the plot because, hey, the story can go on without them, right?

>>282960898
He dies thinking about Naruto so the boipussy must hit hard.

>>282961096
Yeah, he had some kino moments in Wano (Picrel was my favorite), and Dressrosa was his peak as a character, but I still think he could have had more to do, especially in Egghead.

>>282961229
>This argument is so stupid because if you go down that road, practically any straw hat other than Luffy could be replaced with someone else who could fulfill the same role, or just be removed from the plot because, hey, the story can go on without them, right?
This is actually part of my criticism. Oda has not done a good job making the wider crew feel elite outside of Luffy, Zoro, and maybe Sanji in terms of combat. Sanji hasn't used his chef abilities for anything particularly elite, Chopper hasn't used his doctoring abilities for anything particularly elite, Ussop hasn't used his marksman abilities for anything particularly elite, Brook hasn't used his Bard/musical abilities for anything particularly elite. Even Franky has been effectively mid.

So yes, most of the crew seems comically meh, compared to the absolute juggernauts they're regularly around in the story. They feel like they can be replaced because they COULD be easily replaced, it's not like we've run into a crew who are really powerful, but are plagued by constant combat injuries our crew has no issues about because chopper is a rare legendary doctor. for example. It's not like our team has had a moment when a Shanks tier crew/navigator ended up captured by the marines because they couldn't navigate into waters that Nami managed to get us through into safety.

All of Nami's feats are presented as impressive...but always relative to the abilities of some jobber tier no-name.

>>282935338
>Funny how Naruto is a rorschach test on what the central characters are to the audience and each other.
wachu mean anon?

>>282932730 (OP)
How is One Piece better written?

Naruto is more emotionally resonant. I didn't keep up with it as it was releasing, but from this moment in the first arc I knew I was locked in for the next 600+ chapters

>>282961595
Has better lows than Naruto but that's about it. Naruto having a seizure that his boyfriend got in trouble with the law is just some of the lowest points in the series and would just get worst from here on out.

>>282961465
>Sanji hasn't used his chef abilities for anything particularly elite
How do you imagine this? How does Sanji's cooking demonstrate his elite status beyond taste? Luffy adores Sanji's cooking. Luffy and food are one of the core themes of his character. We know how much food affects Luffy's abilities, and his strength is partly due to Sanji.
>Chopper hasn't used his doctoring abilities for anything particularly elite
He saved the raid in Wano and healed the entire Mink Tribe, helping Luffy gain allies for the war against the Kaido. His Rumble Balls saved Law's ass. He constantly heals Zoro and Luffy after every huge battle.
>Ussop hasn't used his marksman abilities for anything particularly elite
He performed an elite sniper shot on Dress rose and saved Luffy from Sugar.
>Brook hasn't used his Bard/musical abilities for anything particularly elite
Musician is a recreational role. Brook's main combat specialty is infiltration. He's the only reason the Straw Hats have a copy of the Poneglyph. Plus, Brook is literally a highly-known musician with millions of fans worldwide. That's elite status.
>Even Franky has been effectively mid
Franky built one of the best ships ever, which saved the Straw Hats' butts dozens of times.

>So yes, most of the crew seems comically meh, compared to the absolute juggernauts
These absolute juggernauts have nothing but strength most of the time.

>they COULD be easily replaced
No. Even if we go with that argument, it's simply a lie, which I disputed. Luffy always recruited crew members for their personalities and quirks. He wanted to recruit the tree from Thriller Bark. Luffy likes those people.

>but always relative
We've never seen the other navigators' abilities. And we don't know how many near-death experiences the Straw Hats survived that other crews would have survived.

>>282936529
>The politics are great
I genuinely want to know what standard are you judging OP by because the only politics I see in OP are incredibly surface level; slavery is bad, genocide is bad, the villains are comically evil, the majority of the main characters dont even acknowledge most of it or have deep thought around it; like fucking kishimoto wrote the entire manga around a single genocide that he kept back coming to so he could expand the sasuke plot meanwhile oda will nuke a country because a character, that he still hasnt even reveled the gender of, just felt like it

>>282961211
Shippuden had the rage fox modes. he canonically uses a three tailed version of what he had at the Valley of the End, and I think filler he uses a two tailed variant. Then there's the four and six tails.

>>282961686
it's hard to take this moment seriously when you remember he's introduced as such a coldblooded killer that he slaughtered an entire graduating class of genin just for fun.

How could OP's ending possibly hope to top this kino?

>>282961842
The equivalent would be for Luffy to go up to Black Beard and say "Let's fuck" and then they fuck.

>>282961842
I hate how Ikemoto is ruining this kino.

>>282961827
You're not meant to forgive him. It just shows he was human and felt a genuine connection to Haku despite his claims otherwise

>>282961686
The only time I shed a tear for Naruto was Minato's farewell. One Piece made me feel emotional in almost every arc. That's a subjective perception.

It's hilarious how much OP fans love their author while Bleachfags shit all over their author and call him a fucking retard with NPD.

>>282961906
what I'm saying is, it's hard to believe he has any sense of compassion or concern left. Pure psychopathy on display.

>>282961916
I felt Nami had stolen too much for me to feel pity.

>>282961465
If for you, a character's entire value lies in their raw power, then the only truly important Straw Hat according to that metric is Luffy, because even Zoro and Sanji are weak compared to him. You are hoping for One Piece to be a series that it has never been and never will be. You clearly don't enjoy it for what it is and should have dropped it the moment you realized it.

>>282957729
Shit taste
>>282958066
It's the best artstyle ever made

>>282961782
>How do you imagine this? How does Sanji's cooking demonstrate his elite status beyond taste?...
Yeah, but I'm not Luffy, I'm a person reading OP and Oda hasn't done a good job making sanji feel elite in his position on the crew. Luffy had no porblem feeding himself before Sanji so his tastes in coking aren't shown to be particular.

>He saved the raid in Wano and healed the entire Mink Tribe, helping Luffy... heals Zoro and Luffy after every huge battle.
Every other team has no problem healing after every battle as well. Chopper doesn't seem to be a necessity, they could get some other doctor and be just fine like the rest of the crews they go up against.

>He performed an elite sniper shot on Dress rose and saved Luffy from Sugar.
Was it elite? Was it something no other character in the manga would have managed to do? We don't know because Oda is poor at showcasing things like this!

>Musician is a recreational role....Plus, Brook is literally a highly-known musician with millions of fans worldwide. That's elite status.
Again, something we're TOLD but never shown as a meaningful contribution to the team.

>Franky built one of the best ships ever, which saved the Straw Hats' butts dozens of times.
Best ships ever is something we're TOLD but never meaningfully SHOWN. Every other crew we meet at this point in the story has seen death plenty of times and still have ships. Oda likes to have characters comment about some feat, but what he actually showcases on the pages is that no other crew has ship problems, so why is our ship exceptional?

>These absolute juggernauts have nothing but strength most of the time.
No, what oda SHOWS us is their strength, hence why Luffy and Zoro feel irreplaceable.

>Luffy always recruited crew members for their personalities and quirks.
Hence why they lack USE, Luffy likes them and that's it. it's not their ability and it shows.

>We've never seen ... other crews would have survived
Which is an Oda writing issue IMO.

>>282961686
I remember crying for days as a kid after seeing the flashbacks of Kushina and Minato, and later again after watching Road to Ninja.
Glad Kishimoto created a one-shot focused on them. It reminds me of how powerful his writing can be when he is directly involved. The difference in quality is obvious, and it's easy to tell when it is Kishimoto writing versus Ikemoto.

Is one piece crossing into Naruto powerscaling levels yet

>>282962012
(read) >>282962064
I'm not saying I only value fighting ability. Part of why I was such a massive OP shill when it was first coming to the US was because Luffy seemed to be building a team of people with many talents which seemed cool as fuck.

Unfortunately, Oda hasn't done a good job showcasing these unique talents, he mentions them and character will remark about them occasionally, but when you're reading that's not the message on the page. As i said in that other post, Oda has done ok showcasing fighting ability, we hear about strong characters and we see the magnitude of their strength, so when Zoro or Luffy overcome them we FEEL their strength. Contrast this with literally every other aspect of the crew and its all severely underserviced imo.

I would love to see more moments that showcase just why Franky is the best fucking shipbuilder around and why the Sunny is a 1 in a million ship, or why ONLY Ussop could have nailed a shot like that, or why Nami's navigation abilities are what really sets the crew apart from every other strong crew...but we don't have those..

>>282962091
>Road to Ninja
based. Only one of the movies I enjoy and have gone back to watch more than once. The ending scene with Iruka gets me every time

>>282961805
>like fucking kishimoto wrote the entire manga around a single genocide that he kept back coming
You mean retconned? The Uchiha genocide was the dumbest thing that ever happened in Naruto. Itachi acted like a complete idiot. As did every responsible person in the clan. Not to mention that almost no one suffered any consequences. The elders responsible for the genocide are still sitting in Konoha's leadership in Boruto.

>meanwhile oda will nuke a country because a character
The entire story of Naruto literally began because of a 40-year-old incel who wanted revenge on the entire world because of a 12-year-old girl from his past. The stupidest thing is that Kishi didn't have any answers to all his questions. War is bad, the cycle of violence needs to end, but... Naruto doesn't know how. But he's the protagonist, he's the strongest, so all conflicts are resolved magically.

An example of the same conflict from Fishman Island. Another cycle of hatred. Only instead of creating a tragic emo villain with a sad past, Oda created a literally realistic image of a radical racist: Hody. His mom and dad weren't killed in the war, so he decided to become evil. He's a product of his society, raised to be mad at the oppression he's never personally witnessed. This is literally what real radicals look like, not some funny emo ninja with a Facebook philosophy. His power doesn't lie in his possession of a magical god's eye. He possesses an incredibly caustic ideology that sticks especially well to those most susceptible to it. The poor and destitute, for example, who live in the ghettos where Hody recruited his army. A ghetto that the authorities prefer to ignore and not waste their energy for fear of an outbreak of riots, but it is precisely this ignoring that leads to the growth of the problem, right up to the destruction of their own kind. This one arc has more politics than all of Naruto.

>>282962142
Madara can slice apart several mountains in one swing. Naruto and Sasuke are capable of creating massive explosions with their powers.
Kaido is strong enough to lift an island and can also create big explosions with his laser attacks in form. Whitebeard and Blackbeard can create a lot of destruction with the earthquake fruit.
I'd say they're pretty close but it depends on the fruit being used.

>>282958066
When it still looked like this it was good. Modern Oda is a battered and tired old warhorse who's been out in the weekly manga trenches too long. His art has degraded a lot.

>>282961962
That's fair but I think it's believeable that even a psychopath like that could end up feeling a kinship with the one person they decided to let into their world, especially one they took in and raised from childhood. He still tried to deny his humanity saying Haku was nothing but a tool to him after his death and only finally broke down when Naruto let him have it.

>>282962304
I still like it.

>>282962064
>Every other team has no problem healing after every battle as well
No other crew has ever defeated the Yonko. And you ignored the raid and the minks, who were the reason SH defeated Kaido.

>Was it elite?
Yes. Reread that part. It surprised everyone.

>no other character in the manga would have managed to do?
Van Oger probably could, as could Yassop. But the others are unlikely. He also saved Robin by shooting from the Tower of Justice, where even bullets couldn't reach.

>We don't know because Oda is poor at showcasing things like this
This is one of Usopp's defining and memorable moments. Like the moment on the tower. I don't know what it's supposed to look like to impress you. Does Imu personally have to come down from his throne and tell you what a good sniper Usopp is?

>something we're TOLD
Time Skip literally begins with his concert. We literally see Gunko obsessing over his music. And I already said that songs are for morality. Brook committed an elite theft of a Poneglyph.

>but never meaningfully SHOWN
Without Franky, Brook and Pedro wouldn't have made it to the island, as Franky was the one who built the submarine to slip under Big Mom's radar. Sunny's jump saved the crew from certain death a dozen times. Like what happened to Kid; if he'd been on the Sunny, they would have avoided the giant's attack. Without Sunny, the Straw Hats would have been able to escape from Doflamingo, Big Mom, and the Gorosei.

>no other crew has ship problems
Almost all the Supernovas lost to the Yonko. Literally only Luffy's crew remained intact. They are the only ones who survived, largely due to all the factors mentioned above.

>Hence why they lack USE
I've already listed a whole bunch of moments for you. Without crew, Luffy would not have objectively reached the point where he is now.

>>282962386
Serious question: Was Haku Zabuza's butt boy?

>>282962304
>His art has degraded a lot
His color covers rn are good as fuck. Oda is a great artist and colorist, squeezed into the weekly manga format.

>>282962195
>I would love to see more moments that showcase just why Franky is the best fucking shipbuilder around and why the Sunny is a 1 in a million ship, or why ONLY Ussop could have nailed a shot like that, or why Nami's navigation abilities are what really sets the crew apart from every other strong crew...but we don't have those..
This is a dum complaint. Oda has shown many times how good they are at what they do, and in a great way. The fact that there are other characters who are also capable doesn't make them any less cool. It's like saying that Luffy defeating Crocodile means nothing because Kidd or Law could have done it too. It's an empty and forced criticism.

>>282962656
dumb*