Thread 282936169

why does this happen?

that's where it belongs

Because yaoi can have attractive masculine men and feminine men. If yuri had masculine women it'd be fucking disgusting.

>>282936169 (OP)
misogyny, duh

I'd real more BL if there were bisexual femboys.

>>282936169 (OP)
just be glad it's even there to begin with

>>282936169 (OP)
Because women can't learn Japanese

both are for women, so whatever

>>282936169 (OP)
you should ask the girls, they're the only ones consuming this garbage

>reverse search OP's pic
>it's from a she/they tranny on twitter
>every reply is from other trannies and faggots with pronouns in bio

Normalfag women buy the most merch, this has always been a thing

stealth 801?

>>282936206
> If yuri had masculine women it'd be fucking disgusting.
No. America has it

>>282936313
Aren't those the primary audiences for both genres these days?

>>282936169 (OP)
Yaoi is better

>>282936313
>faggots like stories about faggotry
stop the fucking presses

>>282936169 (OP)
Girls are bigger buyfags, according to bookstore anon the other month.

While it's true BL sells better than yuri, the reason why we buy so many BL volume licenses (we have to buy the license for each volume) is because BL publishers sell them several times cheaper than the usual publishers, another thing we take in consideration is the length of the series, unfinished series are riskier because the longer they stick around the more likely we will have to license volumes which won't sell anything worth the investment.

As for demographics, most of the LGBT consumers for either yaoi or yuri here are women, our internal evaluation is that the transgender demographic is not only small but most of them don't really have disposable income and just pirate everything instead.

>>282936169 (OP)
Most men need a self-insert and most women are repulsed by lesbians, so yuri is a small niche

>>282936828
>transgender demographic is not only small but most of them don't really have disposable income and just pirate everything instead.
Lmao

Supply and demand

>>282936169 (OP)
Boys are cuter.

>>282936206
>If yuri had masculine women it'd be fucking disgusting
Green is literally the best selling yuri and one of the girls looks straight up like a boy (actually, that’s probably why it’s popular)

>>282936169 (OP)
Yuri is my favorite fictional genre but BL has so many seminal classics that also have femboys in them, it's just objectively the deeper genre

>>282936273
Read that one with the shota vampire, not bisexual as far I know but cute as fuck femboy vampire. I forgot the name someone pls respond

>>282936341
Considering it anon

>>282936446
No, BL is for actual land whales (female(real)) and some sissy boys, Yuri is for trannies and fat Otaku

>>282936169 (OP)
Fujos have extremely discerning and curated tastes, and they will pay huge for that specific writing style in order to get off on it. Yurifags meanwhile accept everything as long as there are two pussies. They accept everything and anything.

>>282937362
Raul and the vampire?

Because women, including lesbians, basically have impossible sky-high standards for yuri compared to BL. It probably doesn't help that 60-70% of the yuri fanbase is men and female otaku generally don't like interacting with male otaku in Japana.

>>282937323
I am not a shotacon, but...

>>282937555
that's a drawing. fapping to drawings is neither gay nor straight since they're not real people and you're not really interacting with them. only actual sex with real people can be gay or straight

>>282937461
BL is basically porn for women. Meanwhile women expect a plot from yuri. That shouldn't be a problem but Japanese men are turn off by lesbians so the yuri audience is pretty small

>>282937555 (checked)
But what?

>>282937438
If anything, it's the opposite. Fujos will ship straight guys in battle shounen (even if they are married to women) whereas yurifags will mostly stick to CGDCT/mahou shoujo where there's no heterosexual romance and one-sided lesbian crushes abound.

>>282937665
but i would love to fuck him silly while his cute small and erect dick flops around

>>282937680
CGDCT is the otaku take on Class S. Otakus love it because girls crushes are cute and non-threatening but many yurifags cling from the genre despite it's based on the idea of girls lacking sexual drive except if it's played by laughs. Recently Kirara allowed a lesbian sex scene on one of its titles and the moefags are furious

>>282937681
That's really gay bro.

>>282936313
>>282936313
>>every reply is from other trannies and faggots with pronouns in bio
where do you even think OP found this image from?

>>282937726
Maybe 10 years ago, but at least 25% of all Kirara CGDCT works have explicit yuri or are advertised as yuri these days.

>the moefags are furious
Where? I see people mostly praising it and Semi-Friends is one of their most popular series (the 1st volume alone has 7 reprints). It's not even the first example of yuri sex in the magazine.

>>282937787
You g/u/ys live in your own little world where everybody and their moms love lesbians. Also the fans didn't want sex, they wanted moe shenanigans

>>282937742
look at those sexy tan lines, he's just begging for cock

>>282937826
>you g/u/ys live in your own little world where everybody and their moms love lesbians
Where are you getting this idea from? Yuri is obviously one of the less popular genres, especially compared to BL. My point is that in a select few genres, it is slightly more tolerated.

>also the fans didn't want sex, they wanted moe shenanigans
Have you even read this series? The MC mentions having sex with other girls in one of the earliest chapters and has an orgasm in another. The entire series is yuri from the beginning.

>>282937726
>Recently Kirara allowed a lesbian sex scene on one of its titles and the moefags are furious
Shachiku-san to Iede Shoujo and Tsumugu Otome to Taishou no Tsuki? Didn't notice any negative reactions.

>>282937787
>>282937897
>>282907708

>>282936828
>we have to buy the license for each volume
>We
Are you boat anon?

>>282936169 (OP)
They're always on top

>>282938221
Assuming they're not joking, it seems they're more upset about how the scene wasn't properly labeled. But that's also one person from the many more who were happy with the scene.

>>282936169 (OP)
Now we know who tops.

>>282936169 (OP)

Probably because women just want to destroy each other the majority of the time even if they're in intimate relationships. Thus its harder to pen stories about characters that will ultimately just self-destruct anyway.

Guys actually relate to, appreciate each other and can get along with one another very easily without constant validation or insecurities.

>>282936169 (OP)
BL just sells better, fujobucks ain't joke.

>>282938265
Dude, Kirara's readership are 90% adult men. It wasn'a "think on the children" situation because chidlren don't read Kirara. Are you a massive newfag or what? You don't seem to know how the industry work

>>282938265
>how the scene wasn't properly labeled.
I've never seen content warnings for sex in manga.

>>282937339
But she looks like an androgynous twink not a muscular man

>>282938221
Whoever made that thread was a complete esl retard that doesn't understand that the person was made that Twitter post was memeing

>>282938330
>You don't seem to know how the industry work
Do you? This was how Kirara's 4th or 5th best selling manga ended. All I'm claiming is that the CGDCT audience has a high tolerance for yuri than others.

>>282936169 (OP)
Men consume yuri.
Women consume yaoi.
Women are the biggest consumers in the anime and manga industry.
This topic really doesn't require any inquiry.

>>282936169 (OP)
over the past 15 years the american publishing industry has been slowly dominated by women, this is turn has lead to readers primarily being women. spurring on bookstores to stock more books for women who make up the majority of their clientele. it's a whole self-perpetuating cycle.
and girls read yaoi obviously.

>>282938371
Is confusing Houbunsha and Fujimi Shobo (part of KADOKAWA which publishes the Dragon Age family) part of the joke?

>>282938397
Actually, about 30-40% of the yuri fanbase is female according to the one yuri magazine.

What is even the point of these threads? The frequently at which they get made obviously shows that there's an attempt to sew discord between yuri and yaoi fans, but why?

I'm only interested in yuri porn, which usually isn't sold in bookstores.
Everything else in that genre might as well not exist.
Women into BL usually like all the gay drama and abuse and sad backstories about why twink A really wants to get pounded in the ass by taller, more aggressive twink B.

>>282938494
as a fag i will tell you troons despise us vehemently

>>282938420
Didn't it used to be slightly majority female in the early 2010s or something?

>>282937461
I've never understood the male-gaze argument when it comes to Yuri. It makes sense if a straight woman is complaining about something for men, but if she's reading Yuri then surely she's at least bisexual, and should be able to enjoy seeing sexy women. What would male-gaze even mean in that context? That there's too much focus on the women's body, tits etc? But then if you're a bi woman don't you like women's bodies? I don't get it the total nonsense of bi and lesbian woman complaining about sexy depictions of women. You like women! You should be enjoying this!

>>282938537
The myth of the "cool lesbian" was never really true, they complain because they just want to bitch about something that men would like, namely tits, hot women, fanservice, etc. etc.

>>282938494
Schizophrenic losing its mind probably

>>282938570
That strongly implies they don't like women as much as they say they do, or they are such big cunts that they are willing to give up something they like because a group they don't like also likes it. This makes it seem more political than naturally emerging from their desires. This would be like me claiming to love bacon, and then screaming that this is getting a bit female-palatey every time bacon is put on my plate because women also like bacon. Just enjoy the fucking tits or I'm taking away your lesbian card.

>>282936169 (OP)
idk, ask women, they consume both.

>>282938646
>This makes it seem more political than naturally emerging from their desires
Yes, the vast majority of lesbians are political lesbians, this is common knowledge.

>>282938537
Women who like manga don't like to self insert as much as the male counterpart. That's why you have lots more women easily gravitating towards male MCs in shounen even back when shoujo was more popular and variant.
Thus, the more similar the lifestyle is to theirs (at least, on the surface level,) the less they are willing to suspend their disbelief, and thus give less leeway when porn logic rears its head. Hence, "male-gaze" ruining their enjoyment.

>>282938537
It's because women find different things sexy than men, even lesbian women. Stuff like sexual assault treated as a joke is a quick immersion breaker for more women than it is men, so stuff like MahoAko will be much more better received by straight men than lesbian women. It's the same reason why BL is a women's genre and geicomi/bara is the gay man's genre, the taste is different even though the subject matter is the same.

>>282936169 (OP)
Because fujos are subhumans who will act like savages if they're not pandered to. Not saying yuritards are much better but those are generally contained on the internet while fujos will straight up want to murder you if you don't agree with their headcanon faggot ship.

>>282938420
>>282938517
It depends on the magazine. Something like CUNE's or Kirara's yuri manga will have way more men reading. Even within Yuri Hime the split changes from year to year - apparently they had 70% women in 2008 and 40% in 2018. For each individual yuri manga you'll get different breakdowns as well, especially comparing seinen yuri to shoujo yuri, etc.

>>282938699
>Women who like manga don't like to self insert as much as the male counterpart.
The fuck does that have to do with liking tits?
Either you like tits or you don't. Bitching about tits existing in something leads one to believe you don't actually like tits.

>>282936828
Women spend money, they are the force that drives this economy for better or worse

The straights are here so no stealth 801

>>282938708
>geicomi/bara is the gay man's genre
No. This is propaganda by barafags, who are a minority of homos. BL is more popular among women because there's a fuckton more straight women than gay men.

Most bl and most Yuri is not written for the demographic it supposedly represents

>>282938819
How many gay men are buying BL? The fact that barafags even exist and is its own niche is the proof that women and men have different taste in smut. All the "as a gay man I love BL" essays, tweets, and bullshit are always by trans men too (so another subset of women, really). I also see you ignored geicomi since it doesn't fit with your narrative.

>>282938725
>fujos will straight up want to murder you if you don't agree with their headcanon faggot ship.
Actually quite the opposite audience. There was an anti-fujo who put live bombs in a university and a highschool to where the mangaka previously attended because he hated the mangaka and fujo culture (and of course mental illness).
https://www.j-cast.com/2012/10/22150956.html (read the second page for the fujoshi context)
Tell me if a fujoshi ever pulled off a crime like this.

>>282936169 (OP)
BL is popular among women. Yuri is unpopular amongst both genders.

>>282936828
Or in other words women are bad with money.

>>282938850
Now this is the fujo propaganda. A yuri mangaka document some autist compiled a few years ago shows how much more common it is for women to write yuri, and a majority of the "big" ones are written by women as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQqV7eWgqi-NL39QdMXTDrjX_FyCaNOAvCD50Ai0TUNwupOx1c2h58mbr4jkz0-qwO_e0uRgRltt5_J/pubhtml#

>>282937614
>that's a drawing
Of a child.
>fapping to drawings is neither gay nor straight
>only actual sex with real people can be gay or straight
Holy fucking cope. The literal definition is about attraction to the same or opposite sex. If you're attracted to men drawing or not you're a faggot. If you're attracted to kids drawing or not, you know what you are. Stop coping.

>>282936169 (OP)
Normally, a girl is into guys. That means regular shoujo or in extreme cases that slop and yuri as a small diversion makes more sense.
As a guy, who may be into girls and the 1+1=2 meme...you'd go for hentai if you wanted that before some lame shipfag material for women. This leaves the most mentally deranged westoid who likely has a political agenda and lies about it to push this thing.

>>282938537
>I've never understood the male-gaze argument when it comes to yuri.
Even lesbians will want to read yuri for reasons other than sexual attraction. If a series has a tone of fanservice and a lighthearted tone in the first chapters, it's probably not going to feature the themes that they want to see. Plus, if they want to shlick off to hot girls, they can just watch normalfag battle shounen.

>>282938890
I would say you're wrong because both genders like seeing girl on girl sexual activity, but you're right because Yuri means romance and girl on girl romance is the actual thing no one is interested in.

>>282938767
>The fuck does that have to do with liking tits?
Because the more similar the lifestyles are to theirs, that is, via lesbianism, the more it irks them when porn logic is suddenly thrown in. I mean, there are plenty of people who dislike poorly timed sexual fanservice, even if they're attracted to the sex that's displaying it. So use that logic when a girl who reads yuri sees tits full on display at times when they think it wouldn't have actually shown up or showcased that way. Those girls give less leeway because of that surface-level connection to their own life, so they instead easily opt in to something that doesn't subconsciously force them to self-insert, ie. BL.

>>282939011
I guess women compartmentalize more.

>>282939034
>both genders like seeing girl on girl sexual activity,
This is really only a western thing. Lesbian porn is pretty unpopular in Japan.

>>282937555
There's a manga literally for you
>reborn in another world my party was full of boys, but I'm absolutely NOT a shotacon!

>>282939091
>Lesbian porn is pretty unpopular in Japan.
Nta, not that I fully doubt you. But is there any proof of such a claim?

>>282936313
Why is there a cast shadow on the ground outside of the one created by the umbrella?

>>282939091
Strange. I understand preferring straight porn because you like to see girls get fucked and you have monkey neurons literally associated with tool use being activated and you can FEEL what it would be like having sex with her more, but it's still two hot girls feeling each all over and even a light taboo element can be introduced depending on setting, so they should still like it somewhat. Maybe they are too autistic and if they can't self-insert they're incapable of getting an erection.

>>282939050
>Because the more similar the lifestyles are to theirs, that is, via lesbianism, the more it irks them when porn logic is suddenly thrown in.
That doesn't make any sense.
What the fuck even is "porn logic?" Is it porn logic to have a scene of a girl taking a shower and thus showing her naked body?
This sounds like retarded political bullshit more than anything else, it's like saying that attractive people are too distracting and unrealistic in, say, a SoL story, so everyone should be ugly.

>>282939120
There was an entire recent thread about the most popular fetishes on FANZA and yuri/lesbians were nowhere to be seen.

>>282936169 (OP)
Yurifags never shut up the fuck yet they yuri sells like crap comprared to fujoslop.

>>282939132
It also matches up with what Pornhub reports.

>>282939154
Pretty sure Boat Anon leaked something similar. Yurifags were extremely vocal but didn't like spending money on manga. Meanwhile fujo's actually spend money.

Delusional esl retards and schizophrenic retards losing their mind about yuri should kys, ty

>>282939192
>>282939154
A lot of third worlders latch on to yuri for reasons I feel are very obvious to anyone who thinks about it for more than 10 seconds, and while they can make a lot of noise on the internet, most of them either cannot afford any manga or live in a country where buying gay manga would get them caned.

>>282936169 (OP)
For the same reason that this happened.
Girls buy BL/danmei

>>282939157
I never really thought about what uncensored would be but 無修正 being the word is about right

>>282939192
Boat anon was full of shit considering that one of the best selling works right now is a yuri series. And it hits almost every stereotype for yuri for women.

>>282939131
Anon, the porn logic is attributed to their talks about "male gaze" being a turn-off. This is me answering your question,
>What would male-gaze even mean in that context?
Hypothetically, not every instance of tits is gonna rile them up against a yuri series. Just ones that don't make sense and perhaps even overdramatizes how they view sex, hence porn logic, since porn tends to simplify and exaggerate sexual features.

>>282939238
Should I subject myself to reading these

>>282939249
A lot of them are decent even if you aren't into BL, ironically due to Chinese censorship. They have to focus on story first because they usually can't be too gay.

>>282939132
>6. 性転換 • 女体化
Holy moly, I didn't know gender bender was that popular, always seemed like a niche subject to me

>>282939244
He did say green yuri was amongst the few yuri standouts, but for the average yuri versus the average BL, BL sold 5-6x more than yuri (with raunchy yuri closing the gap a bit by selling 2-3x less).
Otherwise, how would you explain the discrepancy of shelf space in OP's pic?

>>282936169 (OP)
because women are the primary consumers of the world

>>282939279
Ranma is one of the best selling shounen of all time. People say that yuri is for trannies, but yuri would unironically be 2-3x more popular in Japan if it did appeal to them by having genderbent or futa protagonists.

>>282939286
>BL sold 5-6x more than yuri
That's the same in Japan, so clearly the western market isn't all that different from Japan.

>>282939297
and fujos are the female version of furries when it comes to having obscene amounts of disposable income

>>282939286
Pretty sure it's a case of a few yuri series breaking out of the yuri only crowd. Green yuri has normie/casual appeal and smutty yuri has the horny crowd. Everything else doesn't sell.

>>282939229
I'm stumped.
Enlighten us on why third worlders latch onto yuri.

>>282938621
>Schizophrenic losing its mind probably
Many such cases on this board, unfortunately.

>>282939320
Is this why Seven Seas keeps picking up furry BL? Going for a double win with both crowds.

>>282939157
>韓国人美人
>huge tits and ass
I don't get that one.

>>282939279
Like 15-20 years ago gender benders seemed to be one of the more popular nukige genres. Then it suddenly stopped, wonder if it's a remnant from that crowd

>>282939328
Because there are a lot more males in third world countries than in first world countries, so the kind of third worlder who's into anime/manga is more likely to latch on to stuff where there are no males, or stuff where there's only one male (self-insert). Basically mega-escapism, especially if you're stuck in a household where you have 3-6 other male roommates.It's also why they're heavily overrepresented in gacha game communities (the other reason being that they're free).

>>282939398
I like it when they're paired with a shota.
He's so tiny compared to the fat titties

>>282938873
>How many gay men are buying BL?
Like a fifth of BL sales. So quite a lot considering the difference in population size.
>The fact that barafags even exist and is its own niche is the proof that
they're spiritual women engaging in a female centering purity spiral. barafags are self hating homos that fell for the western idea that homosexuality is inherently feminizing. So their entire identity becomes a fixation on opposing anything that could be construed as feminine. Which ends up circling around to caricatures of masculinity that are more in line with what women like than to what the majority of gay men like. Hence why bara-adjacent shit like golden kamuy is overwhelmingly popular with women. The only thing keeping them away from actual bara is the poop and cow tits.
>All the "as a gay man I love BL" essays, tweets, and bullshit are always by trans men
You're talking to a gay man.
>you ignored the rebranding of the same shit

>>282939386
more like there's a furry in charge of the department

>>282939473
Good

>>282936169 (OP)
Isn't something similar happening with LNs and Danmei? Stores with LN shelves are reducing them in exchange for Danmei (or Korean slop)

>>282939242
Never forget how Kadokawa accidentally published the first chapter of Lilies Complex with uncensored genitals because that's how Tateyama Keita chose to interpret the word when they meant he didn't have to cover the nipples.

>>282937681
How tight do you think he is?

The future of yuri is Chinese

Women spend more money. That's it. Shrimple as that.

>>282936169 (OP)
Because if yaoi was at the bottom then you'd have a bunch of ugly fat sweaty fujos having to bend down to grab their smut.
Do you really want that???

>>282939244
>>282939286
>>282939326
This is a phenomenon we see in the West all the time, lesbian stuff is more palatable to the average person and so stories with a major lesbian couple has a higher ceiling and chance of going mainstream than something featuring a gay couple. Cartoons like Steven Universe, Legend of Korra, Owl House, and Arcane are able to feature major lesbian couples but major gay couples are no where to be found. But there are more super fans of BL who will buy and consume everything compared to fans of yuri. So BL will always have the higher market share, but every once in a while a yuri title will randomly hit a more mainstream audience to blow individual BL titles out of the water (see the green yuri). Love Bullet seems to be on the track of being the next one in the States according to Yen Press. Funny enough is that TSHD could've claimed to be the first big BL in years if the author wasn't an autist about not labeling it BL.

>>282939610
>ugly fat sweaty fujos having to bend down to grab their smut.
Imagine the smell...

>>282939610
>Do you really want that???
Yes.

Yaoi is primary porn for females while yuri isn't for men

>>282939618
>if the author wasn't an autist about not labeling it BL.
For what purpose could she not want to do that?

>>282939736
kek.

>>282939618
I wonder how danmei managed to become half mainstream. I’m seeing them stocked at more regular bookstores than manga and light novels.

I’ve heard it had to do with Netflix pushing Mo Dao Zu Shi hard but feels like there’s more to it

>>282939244
>Solo Leveling
What do people see in this?

>>282939618
>but every once in a while a yuri title will randomly hit a more mainstream audience
This is just my personal opinion, but I don't think it's entirely random. The most popular romance-focused yuri (YagaKimi, Ctirus, Green Manga, Love Bullet, and Tsuku Tabe) all features guys and straight stuff in the first chapter. The biggest factor holding a lot of yuri series back from mainstream popularity is that the yuri audience, including myself, prefer all-female casts for our stories which no doubt hurts its appeal among normalfags.

>>282939736
She's fine with others officially labelling it as BL https://x.com/mokmok_len/status/1956035462793191838 but from the chain of posts, she's just saying that it's not a romance, hence her answer stating that the lack of focus on the romance may affect the BL label.

I just want more villainess yuri, is that so difficult?

>>282939786
It’s the poster child for manhwa and an easy read for beginners/casuals.

>>282939618
>Funny enough is that TSHD could've claimed to be the first big BL in years if the author wasn't an autist about not labeling it BL.
Reminds me of Killing Stalking. Author said it’s not BL and that it should be considered horror.

>>282939736
She's on record saying it's a "queer" story but doesn't fit so easily into the BL label. Something to do with the expectation of those who normally read BL and whatnot. More cynical people will claim it's because she wanted to appeal to a more mainstream audience by not giving it the BL tag.

>>282939846
>>282939959
Nakatani Nio didn't want Yagate Kimi ni Naru to be considered GL because it was just a romance story with two humans who happen to be girls.

>>282936169 (OP)
The store keeps track of how the inventory moves and found that there are more blfags than yurifags in the area?

Womens buy physical merch. What happened is...a weird thing happened. Older generations of women used to buy romance where they could self-insert in easily but at some point intimacy-averse women (fujoshi) began outnumbering normal chicks, and then everything started to be about dudes sticking it up each other's butts instead of being about Literally Me (except with red hair) being kidnapped by Pirate Fabio to be taken on amorous adventure.

>>282940003
Fujoshi are fairly numerous across the globe. In Germany BL makes up half of the manga sales.

>>282939987
>>282939959
>>282939618
This is not from a gatekeeping/anti-gatekeeping perspective at all but the BL and yuri genres not being tropified and super insular would probably be better for growth, no? This feels like less of a problem in yuri because a genderwapped version of Hikaru would've been accepted as yuri by yurifags with no problem. But in general it'd be better if authors didn't shy away from those labels if their works are so heavy on the gay/lesbian romance. It's like how shoujo's become an insular demographic with how they feed into the specific tropes that they know the core fans will like, but at the point of not being able to attract other demos that well in comparison to shonen or seinen.

>>282938537
Men are more likely to like extremities, this is pretty obvious looking at gay stuff. Femboy/trapfag porn is very "massive hips, basically a woman" and bara "steroid use/fat fetish/3 foot long penis", meanwhile bl for women is a lot less extreme in how much they morph the body, men are usually kept to a safe range when it comes to body type with at most, big shoulders, chins, and hands.
"Male gaze" yuri probably means stuff like massive tits, fat asses only capable with surgery irl, just ridiculous body aspects all around. For women, this looks incredibly unsexy, like looking at a dehumanized genetic abomination.

>>282940039
My theory is that shoujo and josei could make a big comeback in English-speaking countries if they tap into the Romantasy BookTok women who are buying straight smut for women in droves. There's still a huge cohort of self-inserting women, they're just not buying manga or watching anime.

>>282940039
>Womens buy physical merch.
They also buy digital things. Tons of BL and TL get published digital only.

>>282940052
>3 foot long penis
Yes please.
Am gay man.

>>282940050
>a genderwapped version of Hikaru would've been accepted as yuri by yurifags
I doubt yurifags would be any more receptive to asexual queer bullshit with a pair of ugly girls in a shit story.

>>282940065
Isn't TL one of the biggest growth markets in manga?
A decade ago most manga readers didn't know it existed or what TL meant.

>>282940081
Feels like it. Seven Seas has a label for it now and many of the digital only publishers have TL lines now.

Yen Press will probably enter the market any month now unless I’ve missed it.

>>282936633
>publishers (mostly staffed by lefty misandrist women) refuse to publish books men enjoy
>"golly, why don't men buy books anymore??? guess this means we should pander more to women!"

>>282940097
If it's books women do tend to buy more, this is a decades long phenomena. Men are more likely to pirate too (and trannies according to that one anon who claims to be an insider).

>>282940097
>publishers (mostly staffed by lefty misandrist women) refuse to publish books men enjoy
This is a problem with western media. But there's plenty of shounen and seinen getting published.

>>282939244
Not saying you're necessarily wrong, but to be fair two of those series have a "its not actually bl despite really appealing to bl because uhh, there's not enough romance? Its actually about representation! My editor is standing behind me, its all up for interpretation actually, please let me sell out".
Bl has some weird shit going on.

>>282940078
They're an extremely toxic group. BL fans generally don't have problems with TS content or if a boy had relations with women in his past.

>>282940114
again, because book publishers have been dominated by women since the 80s. it's been a recognised and documented problem that they will throw out book submissions from men, and many male writers have adopted female pen names to get published.
Would you agree that game developers intentionally put things gamers don't like in video games, and intentionally refuse to put the things gamers like in video games? That many game dev studios actively and openly spite male gamers?

>>282940123
>he doesn't know
there's a reason why nudity doesn't exist in shonen magazines anymore

>>282940146
>there's a reason why nudity doesn't exist in shonen magazines anymore
I too want to see Goku’s baby dick again

>>282940146
>doesn't exist in shonen magazines anymore
You're reading the wrong shonen magazines.

>>282940125
two? i see the one but what's the other?

>>282940146
>schizo meltdown about video games out of nowhere

>>282939736
Iirc recently, a different bl author said a lot of stuff about how it was extremely difficult to get her work published because it wasn't sexual enough for bl magazines (jp editors think fujos are stupid and don't like plot) but being bl at all was also too much for mainstream magazines and they wanted it to be held back.
Might be Hikaru author sold out.

>>282940078
They would've been more upset if the author pulled a "No, this actually isn't yuri" card in that scenario if they were looking at a manga where one girl stuck her hand in another girl's stomach cavity and it was simulating sex. The "Hikaru is asexual and he doesn't actually have human feelings so you can't equate it to romantic or sexual love" is bullshit and only the most delusional of Western "queers" would eat up that explanation.

>>282940146
>there's a reason why nudity doesn't exist in shonen magazines anymore
You've gone from "publishers don't publish things for men" to "censorship exists". These are completely different arguments. There are still loads of manga written by men for a target audience of men and boys.
Men do buy things. It is a profitable demographic. But women spend more.

>>282938537
The only people who spazz out about male gaze are retards or utter troons

>>282940233
There are a handful of publications that allow BL content among other series, mostly those aimed at women but seinen ones also exist.

Can't blame publishers for focusing and prioritizing what women want. They buy more, plus talk about whatever they're into to peers, friends, and so on. In effect, they're the best consumers, and the best advertisers.
It's not really part of the Yaoi/Yuri thing, but also, say, something like villainess so and so series or anything with FMC's is nowadays doing quite well rather than stuff purely intended for male consumers. So, beyond the confine of yaoi/yuri, they're succeeding too.

It's a woman's world now.
Shit like that pharmacy novel is breaking records, pushing 47 million copies, with the numbers going up and up. Even my cousins read it ( all learnt from friends in uni )

>>282936169 (OP)
Those shelves should be filled with other genres instead. Both are bad and inherently inferior to straight romances.

>>282940131
>BL fans generally don't have problems with TS content or if a boy had relations with women in his past
Because the genres come from different origins. I bet fujos would be a lot more skeptical of girls appearing in their works if yumes were constantly breathing down their necks about all those gay boys need a proper woman in their lives and that's how most BL series ended 20 years ago.

>>282940297
Fwiw, here's the article I was remembering
https://note.com/kind_godwit332/n/ncdc09f24e70f

>threa has some actual good discussion on BL/yuri markets and minimal schizo derailing
I don't know if it's because the yuri schizo's busy in the other yuri thread or that the OP didn't include 'yuri' typed out for the catalog watchers to ctrl+f but color me surprised.

I always found it interesting that BL doesn’t get anime that often but the manga sell like crazy. Yuri get anime more often but don’t sell as well. BL don’t seem to need the anime push like other genres.

Even danmei is outselling light novels, and it’s no secret that light novels rely on anime to drive sales

>>282940476
/u/ hasn’t leaked over yet, but they will.
Thankfully /y/ seem to keep to themselves

>>282936169 (OP)
Yaoi is life; yuri is a fetish for perverts.

>>282940491
>BL don’t seem to need the anime push like other genres.
That's because anime is more liked by guys than girls.

>>282940502
It's really just a few schizos, pre-COVID I don't remember anyone trying to keep up constant yuri generals in /a/ or samefagging in yuri threads to that extent.

>>282940491
Its easier to make a money when the market is desperate.

>>282936828
>transgender demographic is not only small but most of them don't really have disposable income and just pirate everything instead
Trannies should never be pandered to. On the contrary, making fun of trannies should be an integral part of any manga.

>>282938514
They hate we can smell the stink of their delusions on their accursed flesh.

>>282940302
>J-Novel Club
It's funny watching them try to get on the BL train but completely missing the point.

>>282940097
if by "men" you mean fat losers and trannies then sure but there's plenty of shounen and seinen for normal men to enjoy

>>282940302
You can't blame publishers but it does make me worry for the future of the manga scene sometimes. Female-targeted genres thriving is great. Them having an outsized influence on other genres, not quite so much. It's gay when a mangaka has to censor his own work to avoid retarded audience tantrums, whether they be from male purityfags, female BL shipfags or other types of vocal single-issue fans.

>>282940588
Viz Media alone seems to be focusing primarily on men. The shoujo line is on life support.

JNC spent years focusing heavily on dudes and while they've discovered women exist the past few years, they're still heavily dude focused.

>>282938381
Cringe.

>>282939120
Just visit JAV websites and see what's trending.

>>282940233
Tagame has mentioned it a few times too. He pitched My Brother's Husband to over 15 different places. BL magazines wanted him to add smut or have the straight guy end up with the gay guy but he declined. Other magazines wanted him to change the gender of one of the leads or remove the little girl. One magazine told him to make the foreigner Japanese because he was ugly.

>>282936169 (OP)
Is it me or are these yuri/yaoi threads made by a serial anti-yuri schizo?

>>282940582
There's no "them". It's just kadokawa.

>>282940797
Isn't it obvious?

>>282936169 (OP)
Doesn't it also happen with other markets? Feels like there's more BL published in Korean, Chinese and Thai than yuri.

BL does well enough in Thailand that the government is offering grants for new authors and productions of dramas. Yuri aren't eligible.

>>282936169 (OP)
Womeme are boring. Even women know that.

>>282936169 (OP)
German girls buy BL and not yuri? May be different in different countries.
Pic is a little old, but I could not find a better one after a short search.
>2009:
more BL volumes than seinen volumes and more shojo than shonen volumes published
>2017:
0? yuri/shoujo ai/girls love volumes
>2019:
seems to be doing better (well, for yurifags)

>>282936206
>If yuri had masculine women it'd be
based as fuck, that's what. Yuri desperately needs more of them

>>282940966
Damn, it looks like BL is totally underperforming in Germany. It's almost always a 1:10 ratio for yuri:BL. It's barely double in 2019.

>>282940980
I think the labels are switched and the red one is supposed to be BL.

>>282940966
Where does cat manga rank

>>282940857
Kadokawa acquiring JNC continues to be a mistake

>>282940970
>masculine women
I don't really trust most female or male authors to pull this off. For men it's always
>this tomboy actually wants to be girly and doesn't actually have any masculine interests or behavior
and for women it's
>this yaoi-proportioned man with breasts is a woman I swear

>>282940233
>we're not even seeing bl's true form, this is its sealed version
How frightening

>>282941106
The only place that seems to really let BL go wild is Thailand ironically. Japan, China and Korea all censor or hold it back in various ways.

Meanwhile Thailand has an mpreg omegaverse BL drama coming next year and they've confirmed the fisting scene from the novel was also filmed.

>>282941201
You can have BL with full penises as long as there's a tiny semi-transparent bar across.
It's just that most BL is published as all-ages and therefore can't have detailed genitals.

>>282938537
It's similar to how you can (usually) instantly tell when a male character is written by a woman or when a "shounen" manga clearly has a female target audience. The erotic angle isn't the problem, but rather the presentation and execution of a character and the perspective from which they were made. The "male gaze" in this case is in the subtle details that make the characters feel just alien enough to signal who they're meant for. I'd imagine it's offputting and detracts from the experience, especially for a bi/lesbian woman who'd have experience with the subject matter.
Yuri written for women tends to have a pretty different feel to it than what's made for men and arguably feels almost closer to BL in what its conventions, which is why you see stuff like the green manga selling so well despite how much otaku seem to hate it.

>>282940476
>that the OP didn't include 'yuri' typed out
That's a big deal.
If you include that word people will post all sorts of yuri content even when it's completely unrelated to the topic at hand, effectively derailing it into a stealth general. And that serves as a breeding ground for schizos

>>282941201
>japan, korea
you're kidding right?
>china
china just made a real life omegaverse and it's now localized in japan.
>“オメガバース”BLドラマ『垂涎-Desire-』日本公開決定 チウ・ディンジエ×ホアン・シンによる“執着愛”描く
https://www.oricon.co.jp/news/2410244/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&ref_cd=jstw003

yaoifags are paypiggies

Square Enix with no yuri, but BL made it in at 8.

>>282941436
You now know theres a danmei author who had her series adapted for chinese tv purely because she's a nepo baby and her family funded it, then her irl actor cousin starred in it. But the most wild detail about her is she's in a very public romantic relationship with her twin sister.

>>282936169 (OP)
Watanare won
Ruri is yuri
Turkey flopped
Cucksaka lost

>>282936169 (OP)
Indeed, yaoi receives more opportunities, better publishers, bigger budgets. As for animation, they get first-rate animation studios with a lot of experience, a better contract, better production, and more resources. As for yuri, it receives fewer publishing opportunities, more austere, limited budgets. As for animation, they get third-rate animation studios, experimental or emerging, with very little experience, poor production, and their resources are practically handouts. But when a yuri gets a good publisher, things change, much like what happened with the green yuri.

>>282936169 (OP)
fujos are moving real money
yurifags play with imaginary coins or whatever

>>282938968
>The literal definition is about attraction to the same or opposite sex.
[citation needed]

>>282941877
>yaoi receives more opportunities
Are you serious right now?

>>282941891
Kek what is that from and please tell me it's just as funny as that video

>>282941929
Consult the mighty arrow

>>282941877
> yaoi receives more opportunities, better publishers, bigger budgets.
>>282940233
>>282940714
So which is it?

>>282936206
Pussy.

>>282939099
Though the art and boys are adorable this manga was a steaming pile of garbage otherwise.
>>282937323
Kei however, I would totally go gay for him.

>>282939347
/vr/ here, we have a schizo of our own, too.

>>282939584
>Gets arrested
Nope

>>282936313
>I looked up something gay and now am mad,how could this be happening to me

>>282940096
>>282940081
Not for much longer, because Americans ruin everything:
>https://mangaplanet.com/blog/closure-of-manga-planets-digital-platform/

>>282940396
Ten publishers doesn't even sound like much when you consider the BL specific ones.
It seems to mirror the experience of many other authors. Manga publishing isn't a charity so the companies try to focus on works that they expect will sell. Hence why a successful X thread will boost the chances of getting published.

>>282936256
>female otakus having far more stuff for their gooning than male otakus is somehow a man's fault
this is your brain on american brainrot

>>282939122
maybe it's just the ashes

>>282936169 (OP)
Yaoifags walk their talk.
They see yaoi? They buy it and consoom it. No questions asked.
It's a united front.
Yurifags? They're extremely loud, but very few put their money where their mouth is.
Furthermore, and more importantly, yurifags are extremely divided.

>NOOOO IT'S FOR LE MALE GAZE
>NOOOO IT WAS WRITTEN BY A MAN MEN DON'T UNDERSTAND YURI
>NOOOO IT TWAS WRITTEN BY A HETEROSEXUAL WOMAN
>NoOOO IT WAS WRITTEN BY A MAN HATING LESBIAN FEMCEL
>BAAAAW THING I DIDN'T LIKE HAPPENED ON IT SO IT'S ACTUALLY HOMOPHOBIC
>NOOOOO DOESN'T COUNT NOT REAL YURI BECAUSE OF [INSERT ARBITRARY REASON]
>BAAAAAW IT WAS YURIBAIT NOT REAL YURI BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SPENT 10 CHAPTERS FUCKING ON SCREEN
Always a but. Always an if. It's never "right". It's never "good enough". Always something "wrong". Always someone's "fault".
And then there's the obligatory crying and blaming and shaming of everyone for not "supporting yuri".

And all this shit is not even a industry issue by the way. It happens on fandom spaces too.
I saw the discussions when the AO3 Top 100 Most Written ships list dropped and it was fucking hell on earth over the F/F stuff. The same shitfest except with the worst you can think of twitter and tumblr flavoring.

Yurifags are their own worst enemies.

>>282936169 (OP)
It's as simple as the taste overlap fujos and hime have.
Western Fujos and CN/JP Fujos tend to enjoy the same things.
Western Himes and CN/JP Himes don't.

>>282936169 (OP)
Sales.

>>282939229
>>282939417
My gachas disagree.
Gachas are SWAMPED by thirdworlders and they HATE yurifags from the bottom of their soul because they just want their male self-insert dick slobbered.
All the stuff between self-inserters, yurifags and shippers. The twitter wars have gotten seriously bad lately.

>>282940302
>Shit like that pharmacy novel is breaking records, pushing 47 million copies, with the numbers going up and up
In Japan or elsewhere?

>>282940714
> He pitched My Brother's Husband to over 15 different places
Is that the norm in the world of Japanese manga?

>>282940050
>It's like how shoujo's become an insular demographic with how they feed into the specific tropes that they know the core fans will like, but at the point of not being able to attract other demos that well in comparison to shonen or seinen.
And what's the problem with that?
Why is actually knowing your demographic and aiming for your demographic and making for your demographic a bad thing?
Why must everything become a blandless featureless mass of gray that "appeals to everyone"?
Aiming for your niche is good. Not everything must be for everyone.

>>282936313
>posting this with a tohou pic

>>282936169 (OP)
Women fetishize gay men way more than men fetishize lesbians... That's just it.

>>282936206
I'd give my life for a proper butch yuri, but every time one gets notable it turns into one meeding to be feminized. And sometimes there's nothing wrong with that but they usually attach it to those kinds of "yuri world where gender roles are still enforced" speculative fiction stories. One of those was where the main couple in any other context but their relationship were considered masculine

>>282943260
I think it's about equal, it's just that man just watch lesbian porn to satsify that desire while woman read gay fiction instead.

>>282943313
This but with bl. Why does one need to look and act like a woman

>>282938304
If that were true 4chan and the manosphere wouldn't exist

>>282936206
>If yuri had masculine women it'd be fucking disgusting.
Tomboys are popular in yuri

>>282943418
Tomboy and butches are on a different intensities.

>>282943142
That's not what's being said at all. It's like, say, kids cartoons/kodomo anime
You recognize that it is for a specific age brscoet, you recognize it has its own cliches, plots, atmosphere because of that age bracket. But kodomo stuff isn't all one or two genres. Now, if kodomo anime got reduced to only doraemon clones or only hobby anime or only cutesy dressup magic shows, then you'll still have a paying audience but the kids would want to go elsewhere since they don't only want to watch those types of shows just because they're kids. Similarly, shoujo (a spefic age range of girls) ONLY doing romantacy, romance, and SoL might turn off girls who might ordinarily like the theming and atmosphere of shoujo because they don't want to read romance, fantasy and iyashikei all the time.

That being said BL has had a lot of genres along with the gay boy romance. Yami BL is pretty popular and there are some that are thrillers, some with horror themes, the usual fluff or melodrama, etc. I think the TSHD author just didn't want people to reduce the story to "ah, it's only a love story"

>>282940616
>The shoujo line is on life support.
unlike the shoujo lines of other publishers?

>>282936169 (OP)
1. women still read/buy/consume books at a much greater rate than men who have mostly moved on to movies and tv. the huge exceptions are shonen in the east and comics in the west.
2. yuri's quality ratio is much better, yaoi has been begging for something like watanare instead of being 95% fujoslop.

>>282936169 (OP)
BL is made by women. Yuri is also made by women. I guess that they just like BL more.

I asked a straight friend of mine once what she got out of bl and she says it was easier to read tape and thriller bl because she didn't have to think about reality (as in it was about both leads not having any vaginas) I have no idea what the fuck that means still but I would guess women like bl because they don't have think about themselves despite bottoms in bl being women

>>282943325
Maybe, maybe not. Given that the yuri category remains small, it's fair to say that men usually prefer straight hentai/porn.
In my experience, I've never read yuri because I found the experience lewd unlike certain straight romcoms. I used to read yuri because the romance felt better since it had a forbidden side to it, probably for the same reason why some women read Yaoi.

>>282938304
lael

>>282942872
Anon, I have bad news for you.
Both the self-insert gachafags and the yuri gachafags are third worlders, because most gachafags in general are third worlders.

>>282944073
I disagree.
The gacha yaoifags and yurifags, in my experience, are a majority first worlders.

>>282939959
>Killing Stalking
Completely wrong. It's delusional western fujos who want to feel better for reading BL who want to erase the BL label. The idea is that having a BL label makes the work worthless in terms of marketing to non-fujos, so the fans are trying to erase that label so they can spread the work to as many people as possible. However, the author does in fact label it as BL. You can check the chapter extras if you don't want to login to lezhin or search for interviews/SNS for proof.
Korean BL does have lots of story interwoven with smut, which is unlike Japanese BL that mostly wants to minimize the plot so that the entire series is a few volumes at best.

>>282938330
Rundown on this?

>>282938708
>stuff like sexual assault treated as a joke is a quick immersion breaker for more women...
I think that's just modern fujos. The uptick of whiny comments about rape in BL is getting annoying. The amount of "hurrr he's a red/black flag" in every fucking BL doujin comment section/webnovel pisses me off.

>>282944148
Every time I pick up a BL smut KR novel I'm forced to read hundreds of chapters of plot for maybe 2-3 chapters of smut in the middle and the rest in the extras. It's maddening having to read all this plot!!

>>282944231
Nah I was tired of it by 2010 and switched to ff myself. An overdone trope isn't special

>>282939959
>>282944148
it's not that it wasn't bl. it was the confirmation that the other guy wasn't gay all along. iirc he had sex with the black haired guy cause he looked like his mom.

>>282942074
>so powerful the jannies had to make /vr/ have only 6 boards for a while
H-he's strong!

>>282944114
They're brown first worlders, which is the same as being a third worlder.

>>282944478
/pol/->

>>282936169 (OP)
Women spend more money. Also Yuri was invaded by trannies making people uncomfortable

>>282944478
C'mon man. Don't be silly.
There's no way you're gonna make me believe, say, all the Genshin fujos, are brown skinned.

>>282943371
4chan used to be a weeb animu website for weebs to weeb out over their waifus. what it is now is the opposite of that, it's an 3 letter agencies' honeypot used to groom lonely people into committing acts of terror, to be used as justification to disarm the populace, and israel's shill farm to manufacture public opinion.

>>282936169 (OP)
Shit tier genre (fetish)
also woke is trash and doesn't sell

>>282941083
The ideal form is fate testarossa but let's be honest she's not at all a top. Nanoha has complete control of that relationship

I hate yaoi-yuri.

I love yuri-yaoi

>>282941391
>>282941201
>Yaoijoggers celebrating the degradation of their own subgenre with western political slop and posturing.

Japan has Omega verse dogshit but that's not a good thing. Fans of this are truly subhuman like feet days.

>>282944408
No, I've actually seen 70k+ likes posts on social media talking about how Killing Stalking isn't a BL mostly because it's focused on the story and horror. Sometimes your aforementioned "he's actually not gay" argument is mentioned, though that's a pretty rare argument since "I'm not gay, it's only you" is an old BL trope. Regardless if it's about the gay or not feud, they're usually are trying to remove the BL label altogether as a result.

>>282944575
>>282944588
Now kiss.

>>282936169 (OP)
Women are MUCH hornier than men.

>>282936445
>Yes. America has it
ftfy

>>282944575
Unironically the only reason why green yuri is successful.

>>282943831
>I used to read yuri because the romance felt better since it had a forbidden side to it
Yea, this is probably why it's lost some of its appeal to some people, it's no longer a forbidden fruit topic unless you're a Muslim or something.
These days something like incest is WAY more forbidden than anything gay.

>>282936169 (OP)
Reminder:
Anytime you see women dominating a fetish space, it isn't their fault. It is the fault of the cucked men who are too afraid to write their fetishes and the insecure men who may lash out at them. Women had to deal with this too, but overcame it. If men would just toughen up, even rural bookstores in America could have books about romance with immortal tween girls next to the women's book about getting raped by a big minotaur. Japan has a higher percentage of strong men, but it is still relatively low compared to their women (who are well known for writing the most crazy stories).

>>282942488
>always an if, always a but
Kek we have the same guys in our homothreads but I suppose they're either baiters or just not representative of the fanbase that feels well fed in general. Moreover if you're a woman you're never gonna complain about a lack of good male representation kek so that probably cuts down a lot of the garbage discussion.
> it was fucking hell on earth over the F/F stuff
About what in particular? I must admit I only looked at the M/M stuff. Made me try a James/Regulus fic out of curiosity even but yeah that wasn't for me.

>>282936206
Honestly I'd read a lot more yuri if all the women looked like St-Just-sama, Oscar, Rika or the lead madam of Gokuragugai. And since they aren't the femboys of BL are much more my alley

>>282942488
>Always a but. Always an if. It's never "right". It's never "good enough". Always something "wrong". Always someone's "fault".
Brutally evident in twitter when a publisher announces a yuri.

>>282944533
A significant proportion of them are.
You seem to forget that a good 70% of the world's population is brown or black-skinned, and the rise of gacha has been most pronounced in SEA, LatAm, and in brown areas of first world countries.
Do you actually think most fujos on the planet are fair-skinned just because the ones you've met are?
Don't be stupid.

>>282936169 (OP)
Ok but how does this affect you?

>>282944691
>These days something like incest is WAY more forbidden than anything gay.
Exactly. A certain incest-themed anime is what made me stop reading yuri.

Only BL I've ever liked, and this is coming from a guy. Most Yaoi outside of doujinshi's is awful.

>>282936169 (OP)
The anon from Seven Seas who posts here sometimes has said that BL sells better than yuri in the west, so the licensors are naturally going to prioritize BL.
I wonder if it's the other way around in Japan. That would explain why publishers are scared shitless of ever greenlighting any BL longer than two volumes and why yuri seems to get way more anime adaptations. Even if the domestic money isn't there for BL, it's still pretty dumb for them to neglect it so much when Chinese and Thai authors/publishers have started capitalizing on that.

>>282936169 (OP)
Woman are extreme gooners

>>282945095
Not really, in Japan you still have more BL works than Yuri.

>>282945095
>I wonder if it's the other way around in Japan
man, delusions never stop

>>282945016
Why not both?

>>282944719
>suppose they're either baiters or just not representative of the fanbase
I think there is a few of us who actually read BL. The rest are just trapfag schizos or don't even read BL.

>>282945095
There's a ton of highly successful manga that never get animated.
Romance series not running forever is perfectly normal.

>>282941201
Omegaverse shit is retarded, though. I look forward to the day that people get tired of it.
It also speaks volumes about how pathetic straight romance has become in Asian media when the genre you're most likely to see a main character get pregnant in is fucking BL.

>>282945118
More is an understatement.

>>282945016
>>282944691
This, it's probably the reason why I latched onto Jeturkcest so hard back in the day

I don't know much about yaoi, has there even been any explicitly yaoi anime airing this year?

>>282945053
You have good taste but terrible opinions. I understand why you can't be bothered to look harder though, it can be daunting

>>282938818
we can turn this around

>>282936486
yaoi is gay
hehehe

>>282945278
No one makes hentai anymore anon the correct term is bl or shounen ai if you're old

>>282942488
>>282944719
Yaoifags also have the obnoxious zoomettes guiltripped for liking couples that follow a "sexist" trope (weak uke, taller strong semechad), so the yaoi is divided in wokefujos and tradfujos and both sides hate each other. Kids these days feel guilty for fucking everything I swear, yeah, women like the strong man fucking the shorter one, get the fuck over it, you like it too, but you repress yourself to hate it lmao

>>282945304
Not 300 posts in. I've given up already

>>282945308
By explicit I didn't mean with sex, I meant where the characters are explicitly in love.

>>282945342
Not since yoi I believe.

>>282945285
Recommend me something then anon, unless your picture is the only rec.

>>282945053
Shit taste.

>>282945278
Well, I guess it depends what you consider "explicit".
Thing is we rarely get the full package of good love story and sexually explicit animation. Closest you can find is probably the Ai no Kusabi and Saezuru ovas.
This year the thing that made yaoifags the happiest is probably the Karaoke Ikou anime adaptation but technically not a single kiss is exchanged.

>>282945411
You'd know, you read Yaoi. Most of it involves tasting shit.

>>282945374
Wouldn't that mean there's more yuri anime than yaoi anime? I only recently started watching seasonal anime again, but this last two seasons ninkoro and watanare had canon lesbian couples.
How is it that there's more anime with canon yuri than canon yaoi if yaoi is more popular?.

>>282945278
If I ranked commoness of fetish adaptations it'd be
>Big tits
>Any form of schoolgirl
>Lolicon
>Monster girl
>Yuri
>Age gap
>Sex (rising)
>Incest
>Yaoi
>Shotacon
While Yaoi sells bigger than a lot of these things. The anime industry is still very much ran by male otakus and sells mainly to them fetishwise. So fanservice oriented towards women is very uncommon.

>>282945489
Explicit is different than implied. I haven't seen those so do they have a confession or are you supposed to imply their relationship?

>>282945445
Do we really have to spend 100 posts discussing how enemas are used again or are you good anon? Not that I ever used one for my own sodomies but if you're so full of shit maybe you need it

>>282944691
If you like incest you should really watch Arion.

>>282939244
>one of the best selling works right now is a yuri series
>still below three fujo bait series and a literal horror BL

>>282945374
No, there was a lot of BL anime last year. Cherimahou, Bravern, two Given movies, Tadaima Okaeri, Tasogare Out Focus, and there was a gay side couple in Vampire Dormitory as well. It was an outlier year, though.

>>282945544
Why is Apollo so hot anon?

>>282945527
Watanare is a yuri harem with kisses and stuff. For ninkoro, it's implied for the two main characters, but there's two recurring side characters that are explicitly dating.

>>282945544
>Do we really have to spend 100 posts discussing how enemas are used again or are you good anon? Not that I ever used one for my own sodomies but if you're so full of shit maybe you need it

Did you really need to say shit taste to fellatiate your own ego? Or does your autism prevent you from understanding a joke, shit-eater kun?

>>282945568
I actually forgot they existed. I even watched tasogare but despite that I didn't remember until you mentioned it because they weren't memorable at all. Just very generic.

>>282945572
He's what came out when Yoshikazu was told to draw the most beautiful man he could think of

>>282938537
>I've never understood the male-gaze argument when it comes to Yuri.

Male gaze is a propaganda concept. An image of a woman from head to toe is just that, regardless of if a woman or a man is looking at it. You can't judge an audience by it's art.

>>282945568
I can’t believe you didn’t include Bucchigiri, the gayest straight anime of all time

>>282945613
You replied to me and I wasn't even going to give you a reply for weak bait.

Once again not every anon who replies to you is the same anon. Enjoy a char

>>282945134
I guess I have to be in a different state of mind to enjoy yuri. I didn't enjoy the few last yuri anime I watched as much as I used to.

>>282945619
>Drawn like bright in manga
>Drawn like char in anime

You aren't wrong at all. We were blessed

>>282945652
>Weak bait
>Replies to a post not intended for you

Autism. Learn how to socialize/communicate before pulling the 'plausible deniability' card.

>>282945685
There's 2 people you're talking to. Maybe you should reevaluate your own autism

>>282945383
Try the God and the Flightless Messenger. It's the most wholesome thing that comes to my mind right now.

>>282944605
>No, I've actually seen 70k+ likes posts on social media talking about how Killing Stalking isn't a BL mostly because it's focused on the story and horror.
>accepting shit from randos
>on twitter
oh for fuck sake. it's labeled bl on the official site, you think the site just added that without the author's consent? it's not about story or horror, people argued about it can't be considered bl because there was no "love" for it to be "boy's love" they weren't sure if the blond guy had feelings for the creep in the first place, and the "i'm not into guys" confession made that worse, especially with the added flashback that he was sexually abused by his mom and how the black haired guy just conveniently looked like his mom. so it's not even
>I'm not gay, it's only you
because him even having feelings for the other is questionable at best.

>>282945770
>There's 2 people you're talking to

Yes, except you wouldn't know that before hand. Please read my original comment and slowly this time autism kun. Ideally don't respond to me with 'bait' because your brain so irony poisoned you presume a post isn't earnest in it's claim.

>>282945183
Wouldn't even surprise me

>>282945807
Oh no anon is angry what will I do besides laughing more.

>>282942119
I was told that being a man and not liking yuri meant being gay, though.

>>282945876
It becomes increasingly obvious who goes just to bitch, complain, and schizo post, and who is a genuine poster. It's especially obvious who is what based on the series they post about. I'd rather wake up to 200+ posts discussing something I don't care for rather than the same amount of pointless bickering and anons taking the obvious bait. I still enjoy the threads but it's rough

>my yuri is more unpopular
>no, my yaoi is more unpopular

>>282945278
There are two explicitly BL this year, though I only personally count one. There's picrel, which I count as BL, and another one that was a compilation of some moments of the manga that came as extra merch with the manga itself iirc. Personally, I don't count the latter because that barely constitutes as "anime" (or even animated) to begin with.
Also, there's some who may say a third one, Banbanban Vampire, but I don't count it because it's categorized as "Bloody Love" and not "Boys' Love" due to editor choices.
Lastly, no BL technically aired on TV this year. So do with that what you will.

>>282936169 (OP)
Because yuri is boring often too cookie-cutter but dbh so are most yaoi works.
>t. femoid that has tried getting into yuri in the past

>>282945799
>oh for fuck sake. it's labeled bl on the official site, you think the site just added that without the author's consent?
You really overestimate the intelligence and willingness for retards to actually do their due diligence and research whether what they're saying is true. They actually state that Koogi herself said it's not BL in some interview as proof, even though that's completely fabricated.
>because him even having feelings for the other is questionable at best
Meh, works like Codename Anastasia, Placebo, Jinx, etc. barely have "love", or is vague about it to begin with, and can easily be labelled as Korean BL with no problem. The term "love" in "Boys' Love" is always vague whenever rape or vague interpersonal relationship is involved, especially for works that don't suddenly flip the switch nor have both partners explicitly falling in love with one another. It's still called BL.

>>282946815
Didn't the first bl end in a suicide? It was never necessarily about ending with love.

>>282936169 (OP)
HR

>>282936305
Yuri is written solely by and for men.
>But
tranny.

>>282938537
You should take for granted every misandrist lesbian on the internet is bisexual irl. Thus they get wet at girls and hot guys fucking hot girls
Thus, the male-gaze is any yuri which fails to pander them.
Lets look at Citrus, the number one hated yuri manga among moids and chuds (the kanokari of Yuri).
Moids hate Citrus because of the NBR incest; Before they used to say is because of the sexual assault but with the rise of yuri webtoons the sexual assualt angle got weak so now the NBR incest is at the forefront.
On the other hands, Chuds hates Citrus because is not "le wholesome". Which gets stronger after seeing how chuds reacted at Watanare sexual assault episode. Same with Mahoako, there is tons of sexual assault there but since the perpretator is a meek shy girl, instead of a hot intrusive girl, then it gives a wholesome element to the assaults.
Thus, male-gaze is used when a yuri failed to satisfy the, biological, female reader.

>>282936169 (OP)

Yaoi is just cheap smut for women.

Meanwhile yuri is mainstream and happens in most series these days. Even most harems have a yuri side girl.

Besides yurifags have ultra popular gacha games like FGO, Granblue or Genshin that are full of yuri and each make more money than entire yaoi industry put together.

>>282946952
I thought people didn't like citrus because it sucked though?

>>282947009
>FGO, Granblue or Genshin
Now I know you're posting bait.

>>282947009
based

>>282946878
Yes, which is why arguing about the parameters of "love" from both partners is retarded. Genres aren't always super anal (heh) about the specifications to that extent. For instance, harems that end up with having a relationship with one girl doesn't technically count as harem. However, it's still labelled as a harem since it carries certain tropes and general beats about polygyny that makes it stand out from the rest of the romance genre.

>>282943096
>>282942176
Think it has to do more with editors blatantly trying to get them to ungay it/dumb it down as much as possible and the examples of bl being passed as non bl with "character is asexual/its a bromance actually/bl stands for bloody love".
The dumbing it down because fujos dont like plot just seems ridiculous considering danmei exists. If fujos didnt like plot and only wanted sex, Chinese censored books that are 90% plot would never manage to be popular.

Even in the realm of faggots, men still top women.

>>282936169 (OP)
Because yaoi isn't the opposite of yuri. Yaoi is smut for women, so you should be comparing it to ecchi/smut manga for men.

>>282947166
Zoomer anon..

>>282947009
>FGO, Granblue or Genshin only have yuri appeal and nothing else
Kek you actually believe this shit don't you

>>282947013
It sucks because of the NBR incest and is not le wholesome for them.
To reach the blueballing they need to read beyond volume 1. And to reach the melodrama cycle they need to watch beyond the first 3 episodes.

>>282947009
>Even most harems have a yuri side girl.
>these days
That goes way before Yuri On Ice hit big with westoids anontachi.

Women read vastly more than men do and women consume yuri far less than yaoi.

Shota Oni anime when

>>282938537
They are repelled by portrayals of their own sex that they feel inadequate or lacking in comparison too. This is what drives many of them to yaoi in the first place. The same deal is also what drives a lot of men to yuri in the first place.

>>282947322
>male×other
LOL, LMAO. True male homosexuality doesn't exist in Fate, and that's a good thing.

>>282936169 (OP)
Female coomers have been underestimated

>>282947951
Forgot they refused to make the guy count as a guy, guess that's another example of bl getting held down.

>>282945634
Male gaze refers to the creator not the audience you drooling buffoon

>>282947009
nobody cares about yurishit tranny

>>282942488
All the things you just listed aren't from the yuri types. They're from fujos-types who have a billion endless standards for yuri but don't care when BL has the exact same kind of content. See >>282937461

>>282948026
Anon, Fate/Extra is an excellent example of how Type-Moon and Arco Wada find male homosexuality absolutely repulsive, and female homosexuality & heterosexuality hot. Reason why it's so pathetic to see Extrafags pretending otherwise.

>>282948197
>find female homosexuality hot
No, waifufags find female bisexuality (before the girls have sex with a man) hot. They don't like female homosexuality either.

>>282948241
I didn't mention waifufags. In any case, with Hakunon you can have a love triangle with Nero and Tamamo with no man involved, IIRC.

>>282948355
I'm just pointing out the thought process common to those types of people. Yuri is fine because they can imagine a MFF threesome eventually. But if the girls aren't into that, they won't like it.

>>282936169 (OP)
Who reads BL: horny women with disposable income
Who read GL: mtf trannies who spend their part time wages on hormones and makeup

>>282948838
Okay. Dunno why bring that up at all, but okay.

>>282945323
To be fair, everyone is suffering from the puriteen scourge. Doesn't matter your fandom or poon or vagoo.

>>282942488
>gender obsession, male gaze shit, yuribait
All this shit is from total troons and retards spazzing out and losing their mind, especially on 4chan with spam bait threads of an esl schizo losing its mind about trans shit and spam falesflag seething about Yuri

>>282949699
Funny enough that Yuri schizo was also spamming about how traps are actually straight and not gay to like and had a meltdown spamming yaoi porn over several threads, so I imagine they spend their time shitting up other yaoi threads too

>>282946239
> it's categorized as "Bloody Love" and not "Boys' Love"
This always felt like an obvious joke. It’s a BL series about an extremely gay vampire

>>282947009
>Fujoblue
>Yuri
KEKAROOOOOOOOO

Is there a term for chinese yuri like danmei?

>>282950385
Baihe.

>>282938537
There is no argument, it's just an excuse to remove attractive people from the sight of ugly people. Beautiful people don't give a shit about things like that, it's only cave trolls and gremlins that are malding over this. This is what "male gaze" really means, because unlike females, males don't mind looking at more attractive people.

>>282950455
Thanks, sis.

>>282950102
The author certainly agrees with that analysis, and technically his editor too. But his editor said that he should avoid labelling it as BL with certainty because it's the first ever published homosexual work in Bessatsu Shonen Champion. Thus, the editor was scared that this would narrow its audience. Hence, the clever word pun was used as a workaround. Plus, it's a lot less explicit than his other BL like Akamatsu Seven or 2gether.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ババンババンバンバンパイア
So this is why it's not "explicitly BL", emphasis on "explicitly".

>>282942353
I never said women can't be mysogynists

>>282938304
Explain the current world order and why there are no women among the belligerent leaders

>>282936169 (OP)
From what i know, the yuri audience can be divided into these groups
>actual lesbians
Very small in numbers, they often prefer dramas with heavy emphasis on relationships, with more tropes usually seem in female fictions
>the cute girls doing cute things
As its name, the main audience is men who just want to watch sth with the cast of cute, attractive 2D girls without other male characters (due to insecurity like gachafag or whatever) these are the schizo shippers that will argue with anons about yuri baits
>the gooner
Men who just want to watch hot sexy bitches making out, these usually have hentai proportions and thirsty characters jumping to sex at the first chance
The #1 category, for female, definitely does not mingle with the other two
Some of the #2 and #3, for male do share an audience, but they generally do not get along and dont actually buy shit
So, in conclusion, yuri is pretty small and divided
While your fujo girl with consume pretty everything, even the ‘manly men doing manly things’ stuffs that are supposed for dudes

>>282936169 (OP)
https://www.jsanilac.com/dominance/

>>282948022

Most male coomers dont read sfw yuri, they do read or watch the hentai stuffs

>>282936169 (OP)
You read everything online anyway. You genuinely care what retailers stock?

>>282946671
Probably because you read yuri written for men

>>282951159
What would constitute as yuri for women versus men? I feel like the line is far more blurry for yuri in the manga-sphere.

>>282951159
Such as Gushing over Magical Girls, amirite?

>>282951253
Read my other post
>>282950971
It is harder to explain in details
But i think the characters dont act in this cutesy, trope-like ways you usually see the female characters, waifu in male stories do, instead they are more grounded like actual girls irl (of course still dramatized for the story)

>>282951299
Your point? You are trying to tell me women like or watch that show or sth lmao

>>282946671
Watch Oniisama e, you're welcome.

>>282951253
>Written for men
MahoAko, Akebi, Sorry But I'm Not Into Yuri, and basically any super moe 4koma yuri in CUNE
>Written for women
Green yuri, She Loves to Cook, She Loves to Eat, Kase-san, most of Battan and Takako Shimura's work
Going off actual demographics here. There are plenty with appeal towards both sexes like How Do We Relationship, Blook Into You, Sasakoi, etc. Even something like Asumi-chan is more palatable for women than the usual porn yuri because it takes place in a more utopian Japan where lesbian brothel workers aren't doing prostitution out of desperation.

Yaoi is Japanese tradition
Yuri is western degeneracy

>>282950971
>these are the schizo shippers that will argue with anons about yuri baits
Are we really going to act like girls in CGDCT don't act mega gay for each other these days?

>>282951470
No, the point is that:
1. It is made by and for men.
2. It's anything but "cookie-cutter".

>>282951590
It's safe and non-threatening for the otaku because they believe women lack sex drive for not having a cock

>>282945505
For some reason women vastly prefer live action over anime
Many josei or shoujo also went straight to live action instead of anime adaptation
I supposed seeing real actors makes them more engaged with the social interaction, if that makes sense
This is also the case in China

>>282951686
The original post literally said ‘often’ you mong

>>282951687
What does that matter when the girls are still gay in the end?

>>282950971
This is wrong because it ignores the entire subgroups of both yurifags and fujoshi that prefer shipping characters from subtext shows. These groups can end up being even bigger than the fans who consume 'actual' yuri and BL stories because they flood doujin events and artist alleys at rate that totally eclipse yuri and BL fans. There are entire fujo groups that only ship subtext pairings from shows like JJK and Haikyuu and entire yurifag groups that only ship subtext pairings from shows like Love Live and Bocchi the Rock. In the yuri mangaka scene, most mangaka themselves are from this "subtext series shipper" group and will have an extensive history of doujin made of Touhou, KanColle, Love Live, Madoka, Idolm@ster, Uma Musume, etc. depending on how old they are. I would even consider these groups untapped markets, particularly in the yuri side where a 'mainstream' band or idol anime has less risks in including a yuri pairing compared to BL which will immediately turn off more viewers.

>>282951909
I ignore them because if these shows actually add yuri or yaoi elements instead of ‘baits’ and ‘subtexts’ they will lose the mass appeal for general audience, and cant be published in their original magazine etc in the first place, like most Jump series
So you cant include these series sales for yuri or yaoi

>>282951807
Yeah, and for some reason you had to blame men for it.

>>282952200
>>282952200
No you retard with brain melt by culture war,
If that anon is actually a femnoid, of course she would find series pandered to male otaku boring as fuck

>>282952090
That's only definitely true for yaoi. Yuri has the ability to be put in mainstream things and not crater the show/manga. That's why the untapped market is there for yuri.

>>282952090
>if these shows actually add yuri or yaoi elements instead of ‘baits’ and ‘subtexts’ they will lose the mass appeal for general audience, and cant be published in their original magazine etc in the first place, like most Jump series
A quarter of all series published in the Jump of the CGDCT genre are yuri though. One of their most popular series just had a sex scene and it's not even the first example.

>>282936169 (OP)
>western bookstore has them on the same shelf
Kek. In Japan at Animate for instance they aren't even on the same floor. Yuri is with male demographic works with shonen etc., yaoi is with shojo. You don't see any crossover of the demographic at all, it's only men looking at yuri and vice versa.

>>282943666
Steamship seems to be growing rapidly.
Kodansha is constantly licensing shoujo now too.

>>282936169 (OP)
>why does this happen?
Women. They love faggots and by extension yaoi for reasons I don't understand.
My third cousin has a bookshelf consisting of only yaoi, the funniest part is that it's right there on full display, her parents could walk in and see it all but she doesn't care. How shameless of her, to have porn right in the open like that

>>282952888
>cute/hot guys being cute/hot together
Truly it is a mystery why they would like it.

>>282936169 (OP)
Yaoi is for normal women while yuri is for "men" and trannies which is a much smaller demographic.

>>282952888
Your third cousin is based

>>282952510
There's artists that do both, just like there's BL artists everywhere else.
GL in shojo and josei magazines also exists but there's usually no reason to make GL specific shelves since it just blends in with the rest and BL is simply magnitudes bigger anyway.

I've read the fish danmei and it was actually alright, funny. Danmei can stay if they're like that.

>>282951766
It's a combination of it being a vehicle to push idols and targeting an underserved audience that have money, bored housewives.

>>282936169 (OP)
>>282936256
>>282937216

yes, And not just women. I remember a discussion on an anime site's forum where this same discussion took place. The most curious thing was that the majority of users who called themselves men felt uncomfortable and insecure when the protagonist was a female character, but they felt even more comfortable with a story that had a male character, even if the genre was yaoi. This photo you posted and some of the comments from anons confirm this, like these.
>>282936192
>>282936206
>>282936486
And this is literally pedophilia for faggots.
>>282937323

>>282948028
Oh, I'm sorry I must have had the presumptuousness in the wrong direction. It is also fucking stupid to assume that 'male gaze' is sexist on the creators' side because both males and females (And others) can shoot a woman to make her appear desirable. They can do it with men too, so your anti-art, ultimately book burning philosophy is still bullshit.

>>282955524
Didn't you know, anon? Only women can get sexualized. Men getting "sexualized" is just men being men and therefore doesn't count. Silly you.

>>282939570
Very tight, i would have to prepare him a lot so he doesnt cry when i penetrate him

>>282955572
I've seen too many 80s and 90s romance novel covers to believe that bullshit.

>>282937323
>what if Nagatoro but without the tits and ass

>>282937680
How many CBDCT/mahou shounen and all male cast anime do we get that aren't adaptations of shounen titles? I feel like there used to be a few every year but now not so much.

>>282936169 (OP)
Because horny women are a more lucrative market than transgender men.

>>282955872
Transgender men are reading yaoi, unless you meant MTF trannies

>>282956015
Yeah, that’n.

>>282936169 (OP)
zoomer girls go to stores and buy books
it's impossible to get zoomer boys to leave their rooms to do anything at all let alone go to a bookstore

>>282939131
Anon, the example image at the start of this chain is a girl grabbing another girl's boobs in a bath setting of some kind. Think about it, irl would you feel uncomfortable with someone grabbing your dick or ass for giggles? Not like a quick slap or something but full on grabbing and holding like it was a normal social action. That kind of thing happens in fanservice plenty and is nothing in fiction because we know it's just there for our enjoyment, no biggie, but if it happens to a woman irl it's awkward as all fuck because real people have boundaries and steps before they can be that intimate. If a woman is thinking about her own natural kneejerk reaction then of course she'll be uncomfortable with random touches. She's grown up as a girl being told not to touch boobs all willy nilly. This is also why guys in yaoi will pee in urinals next to each other, because women never got told not to do that as kids so they don't think about it.

>>282956080
Is that why Zoomer boys smell?

>>282936169 (OP)
Because more people buy Yayoi than Yuri, why do you think female pornstars make more money than male pornstars, same logic

>>282955589
>prepare him
Don't need to prepare them much, they'll adapt

>>282955833
Kei is much cuter.

>>282956080
So much seethe over zoomer men recently.

>>282956163
>Think about it, irl would you feel uncomfortable with someone grabbing your dick or ass for giggles? Not like a quick slap or something but full on grabbing and holding like it was a normal social action
You've not thought about this. If she's hot I can't think of anything better.

>>282956352
>she
We're talking about same sex interactions, anon!

>>282956396
If I liked men I am sure I would feel the same way. Why wouldn't I enjoy having my dick held by someone hot?

>>282936169 (OP)
that's not even that bad
some shops will have giant areas dedicated just to yaoi and but 0 yuri

From this thread, what I'm getting is that the main reason yuri romance specifically is unpopular with fujos (and other people who might be otherwise interested in sapphic love stories) is the works come across as too CGDCT-esque. This can manifest in how the characters, artstyle, or tone is perceived. Anyone care to correct me?

>>282956446
Alright, you can stand there blushing and moaning like an anime girl, but I'm going to leap out of my skin and spill spaghetti everywhere, especially if they're hot.

>>282956446
Anon I will gladly hold your dick then insult you when you get a boner

>>282950529 bad bait

>>282956797
Someone's never read yaoi fanfics where the female main interest gets treated like Satan himself.
Relena Peacecraft has to be one of the most bashed characters in existence. And you're not gonna convince me it's men writing those bashfics where Duo is getting Heero pregnant.

>>282936169 (OP)
Women loves faggots, just not female faggots.

>>282956656
You will never understand what it is like to have a dick.
>>282956752
Deal.

>>282956163
>bl equivalent

>>282957029
>Maybe I'm not actually jacking off the right way
Is there any guy that has ever thought this?

>>282956641
Yuri is for men like yaoi is for women, women aren't attracted to women being gay just as you aren't interested in men being gay. It's really simple you fucking retard.

>>282957344
I did when I started wondering why no one else seemed to tickle their dick raw to masturbate

>>282936169 (OP)
Because this is a western bookstore and the picture is of their LGBT section. They don't understand that these are fetish works for the opposite sex to the characters.

>>282957391
I'm talking about the audience who would read yuri but otherwise won't. Hardly any of the responses in these threads from fujos is straight up "I would never read yuri."; it's almost always couched in criticisms of how yuri is presented.

>>282956396
Some of my friends were pretty handsy in high school and college. And also borderline nudists that would walk around naked a lot or whip out their dicks for the lulz. No one was all that bothered by it, including guys who were very straight.

>>282957450
What's your opinion of homosexual men, as a man?
Why do you think it's any different for women and homosexual women?

>>282957450
>it's almost always couched in criticisms of how yuri is presented.
And the hilarious thing is that those people are like pic related.
No matter what, they will never read it, they will never like it, they just wanna shit on something they never had the intention to give a try while acting like they're on a crusade for good so they can feel good about themselves and shield themselves from criticism.

>>282957405
How long were you doing this before you realized you were retarded?

>>282957531
Homosexuality is disgusting. Go back to twitter LGBTfaggot

>>282957508
Again, I'm not doubting that there are plently of fujos/normalfags who will never read yuri because they're just not interested. I'm specifically talking about fujos like pic-related >>282937461 who are into yuri nominally but still prefer BL.

>>282957531
I suppose.

>>282957542
Honestly, people take for granted how open sexual knowledge is nowadays.
Even on the nineties alone so much of this stuff was still extreme taboo.

>>282957542
Long enough that I have a permanent scar on my benis from repeat friction burns

>>282957583
>fujos like pic-related
There aren't any women here newfag. Holy shit this whole thread is male incels talking about women like they understand them. lmfao

>>282957657
Regards of whether they are fujos or faggots, some of them clearly wouldn't be against yuri if it was presented differently.

>>282957722
>some of them clearly wouldn't be against yuri if it was presented differently.
They'd just pick something new to complain about.

>>282957722
Most people are not going to be into LGBT garbage regardless of how it is presented. And that's a good thing.

>>282936169 (OP)
women

>>282957763
Maybe. The only reason I give them any time of day is that, when a work manages to avoid their criticisms, it often results in the work becoming the best selling yuri works of all time (YagaKimi, Green Manga, etc.).

>>282957859
>Most people are not going to be into LGBT
Are you having a stroke? Do you know what a fujo?

I don't know why there are people interested in having fujos read yaoi.
On the other hands, fujos that don't simply say "I don't care about yuri because I don't find it appealing" deserve all the scorn they get.

>>282956641
Pretty much, but I'd wager that the CGDCT isn't the be-all-end-all of it either. For fujos specifically, a lot of them are into BL because they naturally empathize with/self-insert (to a degree) into what they consume and the absence of women offers a layer of separation that feels safe; yuri is, for that kind of person, repulsive. That's where stuff like >>282937461
comes from and why they're so much pickier about yuri. There's no distance between them and the work, so anything that feels too alien or too blatantly "for men" puts them off.

>>282958118
>hands
Fuck.

>>282958188
You know nothing about women lmfao. Women this! Women that! I know all about them! HAHAHAHA ywnbaw btw.

>>282958188
>the absence of women offers a layer of separation that feels safe
I feel like a huge point of comparison a lot of fujos make between BL and yuri is that the former is much more likely to have female side characters, but that could be just the ones I'm seeing.

>>282938537
The girl acting all moe and dumb is a huge turn-off for women. That’s why they avoid yuri, since most of it is written with a focus on a male audience. You need to understand that diversity is a joke, and people will never like things aimed too heavily at a specific gender, unless it’s mindless entertainment like shounen. Niches will always exist and have dedicated fanbases, just like BL caters to women and yuri caters to men.

>>282951155
It's clearly just an excuse to engage in anime homosexuality discourse or whatever you'd call this thread

>>282937323
This, specially shota indeed. Boys can also look like a girl (traps), like Kei, and guess what they are always cuter than an actual girl. It's not hard to understand.
In fact trap BL sells better than other BL.

>>282958540
>In fact trap BL sells better than other BL.
lol no

>>282957645
I salute you.

>>282958571
Yup. Things like Prunus Girl did amazingly well.

>>282958615
for men, yes

>>282958211
You're replying to a fujo thoughever. I just also read yuri, so I'm using what other fujos I know have said + a bunch of perspectives I've seen on the wider internet as reference. That's why it's a wager.
>>282958250
I meant more in the sense that they're absent from the main romantic drive of the plot. Female side characters aren't usually involved in the relationship between the two leads, and if they are, it's as a third party that's either into it as a supportive observer or as a secondary LI that smoothly moves on over the course of the plot. They can exist without threatening that sense of distance, kinda like how some yurifags are fine with male characters in their yuri so long as he doesn't take the focus, though the underlying anxieties are different.

>>282958656
Yes, and that's what matters. Nobody is measuring BL solely based on how well they do with women.

>>282958697
What yuri do you like?

>>282958697
How does that match up with their desire to see guys in yuri though? From what I've seen, any all-girl yuri work is dismissed as overly male-pandering.

Yaoi > Yuri
Men deserve to be happy more than women.

>>282958250
>>282958697
This argument is ridiculous. Fujos don’t care about yuri or female love interests at all. Are you going to read BL just because there are irrelevant female side characters? lol

>>282959070
For the billionth time, we are specifically talking about the certain interests of a specific cross-demographic of fujo/yurifag. Most fujos aren't like going like yuri for exactly the reasons you've outlined, but there is a clearly a subset that is not opposed to reading yuri, but is turned off of a lot it for some reason.

>>282958370
>The girl acting all moe and dumb is a huge turn-off for women. That’s why they avoid yuri, since most of it is written with a focus on a male audience
You've been fed the fujo propaganda or are a fujo herself. There are plenty of yuri that are josei and shoujo and the type of slightly toxic but "realistic" female portrayal that fujos claim doesn't exist because they just make up seemingly plausible reasons to not consume yuri when they could just outright state their main interest is male on male action. Any of Battan or Takako Shimura is the slightly toxic adult but not too moe yuri, Sal Jiang is the slapstick adult yuri, The Star on That Day is the sensitive and not overly sexualized high school girl yuri, TsukuTabe is the SoL adult yuri, and so forth. That excuse may have worked back 10 years ago but where we're at with yuri now it's simply that fujos prefer media about men and try to take a moralistic or qualitative high ground over yuri to protect themselves from the reality that they spend most of their time obsessing over fictional men despite hating real life men.

>>282959231
Guilty as charged. Yeah, I just hate yuri.
Sorry not sorry.

>>282959199
>there is a clearly a subset that is not opposed to reading yuri, but is turned off of a lot it for some reason
I don't think this group is as big as you think. Even if some fujoshi would read a yuri touted as a good work, at the end of the day they still prefer their favorite flavor of slop. It's literally the same thing as himejoshi not giving a fuck about BL unless the story's been recommended a bunch like The Summer Hikaru Died or Banana Fish. The himejoshi are just more upfront about it while there's a specific and vocal group of fujoshi that for some reason cannot just state the obvious. In this thread alone one could get close to the "excuses fujos give instead of just admitting they innately prefer BL" yuri bingo.

>>282958827
I'm not very picky, but I read more dramas and bittersweet tragedies than anything. Fishe, Dear Flowers that Bloom in Days of Yore, Aizawa-san, most things noighd picks up actually, Sayonara Rose Garden, that kinda thing. Also into yandere but it's pretty hard to find in a sea of regular menhera. I've been on a baihe kick lately and The Wind Spell (webtoon) is looking to be really good too, but that's not anime or manga.
>>282958956
It depends on the person, but afaict it's less about wanting to see men in yuri and more about wanting a world that feels more fleshed-out/real, and that tends to include seeing the occasional man.

ITT try to sell your personal worldview to others, no matter how out of touch with reality and stupid it is.
Man, the shit takes one have to read in threads related to homo topics are specially bad.

>>282958540
>In fact trap BL sells better than other BL.
Go to the average Kinokuniya or Animate bookstore and tell me the reality regarding BL bestsellers. Hell, if you're American, just go to Barnes and Noble. The most relevant trapshit will be in het, and barely a blip in BL. And even if they're relevant in het, they don't always do as well as your bestselling BL like Cherry Magic.
Fact of the matter, that outside of twitter posts and pirates translating trapshit, trap BL aren't as profitable as your average BL. Hell, even other BL that imitates femininity, like omegaverse, is more popular. Trap BL has an audience, but money talks louder, so they're far less relevant. As a result, trap stuff is usually relegated to a side trope with barely any development other than the occasional fanservice. But on their own, and to actually develop a BL romance? Pretty fucking rare.

Self inserting retards opinions don't matter since they're literally too stupid to separate themselves from a work and think about it from a different perspective other than their own perspective in the story
The male gaze shit is troons and turbo brainlets trying to dictate what guys or yurifags should be looking at, it has to be the stupidest shit I've ever seen and the equivalent would be me gatekeeping what bl women should read for some retarded reason. To boot that gender shit only gets spammed on 4chan threads here by a complete schizophrenic tranny that frequently meltdowns about Yuri, it's a waste of time

>>282951555
And this has shown that over the years degeneration becomes a tradition.

>>282959908
I seriously wonder when did go so wrong that people need a "self-insert" to be able to enjoy anything nowadays.
We used to joke as self-inserting as the little girl and laughing at the faggots who said they couldn't watch or read something because they couldn't relate to the MC because it was not their sex, age, race, etc.
We used to enjoy the characters as they were, and if the character was meant to be a self-insert, we all self-inserted anyway no biggie.

>>282959552
>thinly veiled transphobia
Fujos are based?
In all seriousness, a lot of that is due to women politics. Fujos can't just say they dont like f/f because they can't, they're told that they actually hate women if they don't like yuri, they hate themselves if they don't like naked women. As other posts pointed out, fujos are asked "why can't there be a woman? Whats the problem with women? Why do you draw men?"
Its all so bizarre since everyone can agree a man not wanting to see two gay men fuck simply isn't gay and a guy looking at yuri might not give a shit about kesbians and just like seeing two hot chicks.

>>282960130
>Its all so bizarre since everyone can agree a man not wanting to see two gay men fuck simply isn't gay and a guy looking at yuri might not give a shit about kesbians and just like seeing two hot chicks.
You can thank feminism for that one.
How dare you not to support your fellow women?
You just said so. It's politics. They unmade themselves.

>>282959552
Your pic is pretty much trying to dismantle any reason a fujo can give for why they're not into yuri in order to force them into reading it.

>>282960130
>>282960189
I'm so fucking tired of this shit
>girl fangirling and being cute about a 2D man she likes
>EHHH DO YOU KNOW HE IS A RAPIST, CHILD PREDATOR PSYCOPATH XXXXX
fucking moralfag redditors

>>282960189
Wouldn't say it's because of feminism but rather something more fundamental, feminism is just one of the methods used to shame. Religion, family, and even men as a generalized group are used just as much by women as they shame women into whatever bullshit.

>>282960282
My favorite nowadays is the "I can excuse mass murder, rape, blackmailing, torture, etc but incest (it's actually not incest they're just "sibling coded"/they're 17 years old 364 days 23 hours 59 minutes old you sick fuck/they have a 5 minutes age gap it's literally grooming (both characters are 39 and 40 years old respectively) crosses the line".
By the way this only applies to characters and ships I dislike so you should stop writing it when it's a ship or character I like there's magically no problem anymore and you should write that one instead.

>>282959552
>make it yourself instead of whining
If this a reference to the low amount of f/f fanfiction (and I've seen that discourse,) this is a completely legit argument.
Fujos are annoying, but criticising them for writing shit that actually appeals to them is really fucking stupid.

>>282960375
The thing is male otaku/female otaku have always been more or less kind of their own corner not interacting all that much outside of special ocassions. Everyone had their niche and everyone enjoyed their niche.
Male otaku just looked at fujos and yumes as these exotic animals and mostly left them alone since they were beyond their understanding and they were too busy waifufagging too anyway. I say feminism because that's a by women for women and this whole thing of yaoi vs yuri from the women side of thing has generally been women vs women.
Hell, I remember when we used to have "cultural exchanges" threads here and they were mostly civil.
All this fanbase warfare is a relatively recent phenomenon. People used to fight my series vs your series but now it's genres/demographic warfare. Shit has scaled up.

>>282959552
>Bingo image
Some of these are valid concerns made by fujos, yet twisted to make it seem ridiculous. For instance, the misogyny one. I've seen yuritards unironically say that fujos are too "male centric" and are thus misogynistic, completely forgetting that the "centering" is about catering to an audience of the specified gender, and BL is far from "male-centric". They genuinely believe that not focusing on fictional women is misogyny, and thus fight with other women by calling them lesser, hence ""REAL misogyny"" comment, since it just brings real women down.

>>282940797
Yes, it is another one of those monthly yaoi vs yuri threads and it is quite curious that this boy who hates GL knows a lot about BL and likes it so much that he even defends it and since he has already seen that the publications of his favorite genre are ignored in /a/ he has no choice but to use yuri so that his threads can reach the limit of reactions, simply pathetic yaoifag

>>282960771
I don't really buy the misogyny thing for the majority of fujos since they're mostly just straight women into the idea of seeing two men fuck. But for the so called lesbian fujos I don't know what else it could be besides self-hatred unless they're actually bisexual and won't admit it. They're basically the one group that doesn't follow the logic of preferring romance genres of the sex they're attracted to. Gay men preferring yuri is as rare as finding a straight women who prefers yuri, and yet a whole subset of fujoshi that identify as lesbian exist. Literally everyone I know that's lesbian staunchly prefers yuri and would choose straight romance as a second choice because at least a woman would be involved so I don't know what's their deal.

>>282961055
>yet a whole subset of fujoshi that identify as lesbian exist
>Literally everyone I know that's lesbian staunchly prefers yuri
Hmmm...

>>282960771
You don't understand, the image is meant to make fun of insane fujos and troons, not whatever you're spazzing out about

>>282936169 (OP)
Can't beat the cock.

>>282961167
>make fun of troons
>*cissexist comment/thinly veiled transphobia*
Hmmm...

>>282961288
There's a schizo here that has an entire folder of random trannies from reddit and twitter so it can spazz out about Yuri, so I'd say there's probably other mentally ill mtf that would complain about the same kind of shit that would fall into that bingo yeah

>>282961437
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8cKhZFEow

>>282961288
>tranny phobia
No such thing. Kill yourself.

>>282961288
It makes fun of both the trannies who complain about "male gaze" yuri and the retards who can't separate yuri from the trannies who aren't making or appealed to.

>>282961599
That's a literal quote from the image (>>282959552), you dense motherfucker.

>>282961599
Anon, the bingo card hates transphobes, the other anon is pointing out that even the guy posting the bingo to make fun of fujos actually disagrees with it.

>>282961622
I'm just scrolling the front page. Bite me.

>>282961665
Try to not be a massive retard next time, sweaty.

>>282936169 (OP)
>why does this happen?
Women buy
Men pirate

>>282961648
It does criticizes fujos, tho.

>>282961648
The bingo card also hates trannies who use terms like male gaze.

>>282961701
Fuck you, nogger.

>>282961726
Not them. Laura Mulvey was a very famous tranny, indeed.

>>282959905
hehe I know I exaggerated that to bait the local trap haters like (You) to see what kind of retard take you will come up with next and you absolutely delivered.
>and barely a blip in BL
>trap stuff is usually relegated to a side trope with barely any development other than the occasional fanservice. But on their own, and to actually develop a BL romance? Pretty fucking rare.
I hate spoonfeeding but someone have to call on your stupid hater-ass bs with some evidence and hopefully actual trap lovers get something nice to read tonight if didn't know about any of these already.
Prunus Girl, Boy Skirt, Trap Heroine, Koisuru (Otome) no Tsukurikata, Misaki-kun wa Kouryaku Chara Janai, Raul to Kyuuketsuki, Toudou-kun Chi no Maid Shota, Miki no Houkago, Amachin wa Jishou , Otoko no Ko Tsuma, Inaho-kun wa Nise Kanojo no Hazu na no ni, Himitsu no Akuma-chan, Onnanoko Tokidoki Otokonoko, Suki koso momo no Jouzu nare!, Madowasenaide Yamori-kun, Natsuki-kun wa Kyou mo Kirei, Ichigo-chan on Sundays, Sazanami Cherry, Otasuke Miko Miko-chan
Just to name a few, there's plenty more. All of these are trap BL romance and the ones that are over have a very gay ending. Some quite popular within its niche in this already niche market that is BL as a whole. There's plenty of oneshots as well.
Thanks for the chuckle by the way.

>>282961761
Troons and fujos are also spazzing out about misogyny, so that means the original creator of that word is also a troon and fujo yeah

>>282961761
Nowhere did I say that the term was made by or exclusively used by trannies, but obviously it is a term that is frequently used by those kinds of people.

>>282961741
Kill yourself.

>>282961870
Misoginy is a meme word, indeed. Esther Vilar said nothing wrong, btw.

>>282961806
Comparing this to the literal tens of thousands of BL? Yeah, that's a fucking blip, especially when we look at the sheer number of BL that get multiple live action adaptations to boost them on the multinational front.
Still, you can't answer what these bookstores have in terms of best seller BL. And let me tell you, trap BL is far from the majority of what you see in those stores. "Sells better" is innacurate when we look at average sales.

>>282936169 (OP)
Desperate, lonely, alpha-widowed spinsters buy yaoi in droves, and their population is rapidly increasing in modern society, so the sales increase with it.

>>282962005
Yeeeeeeeah yeah your cool boyish boys are more popular, specially among fujos (duh) and get cringy 3DPD adaptations. Are you winning yet, miss?
Traps are still very popular and get really good quality romance BL stories.

>>282962669
Your entire premise was about,
>In fact trap BL sells better than other BL
Actually read what you type next time if you're gonna pivot the point and ignore a large chunk of BL to say that it "sells better", jesus christ.
>Traps are still very popular
That's a fine point to make, just not the whole "trap BL sells better than other BL".

>>282962901
Pfft re-read the first line of my previous post, autist.

>>282963052
Concession accepted.

>>282937680
>Fujos will ship straight guys in battle shounen (even if they are married to women) whereas yurifags will mostly stick to CGDCT/mahou shoujo where there's no heterosexual romance and one-sided lesbian crushes abound.
You yuritroons are such fucking hypocrites, did you know Mahou Shoujo used to be a genre for fujos until you yuricucks invaded and colonized the genre for yourselves?

Decent thread. But it got kind of schizo towards the end.

Bisexual himedanshi and himejoshi are so cool...

>>282963258
>did you know Mahou Shoujo used to be a genre for fujos
Mahou Shoujo was originally a genre for yumes and little girls not fujos (how is a genre with a female protagonist for fujos anyway?). I don't see what's hypocritical; if you guys wanted to make more mahou shoujo, you would but you don't.

>>282963372
>fujos
Pretty sure that the retard thinks "female otaku fan = fujo".

>>282963389
In that case, it's even more retarded because PreCure and Aikatsu still exist and they still pander to female otaku in the vast majority of seasons.