Thread 283030280

>serves a corrupted system with politicians who laugh at his face and don't care about common folk
>preaches about how it's better than another flawed system that does pretty much the same

It's OK because the people voted for it

>>283030280 (OP)
You forgot the part where the unofficial political paramilitary tried to murder him for being rude to a politician, and the event wasn't even reported by the media never mind investigated by the police.

>>283030697
yea

>>283030280 (OP)
He is a model slave to the democracy. Well, was.

>>283030907
And then he jokes about if only the military coup murderized the politicians. He is just a coward not willing to take action.

>>283032123
Political cuck and coward. Idealist on paper who is just treating his ideals as convenient excuses for his own cowardice.

>>283032123
>>283032848
Being a historian, he's more concerned with how people in the future will view his actions versus trying to change things now. Especially since if he did defy the usual processes and procedures and actually fix things, some tyrant in waiting in the future will use Yang's actions as a justification for their own abuses of power. But you could counter argue that it's still cowardice with extra sophistry.

>>283030697
But the people are retarded.

>>283033181
If he was actually a historian then he would know the original meaning of dictator.

Why do armchair generals think they can conquer a galactic empire when they can't conquer a woman? Why these losers hate Yang so much?

>>283033969
>muh words muh roman dictator
yang is speaking in nip and when the yellow wiggly lines spell out "dictator" he's probably saying something along the lines of "boukun" in nipponese which has it's own set of connotations that map more closely tied to the modern American usage of the word dictator than how it might be used be people schooled in the classics. besides classical dictators still had a mandate from the people which is something yang really never sought out. if yang had managed a good working relationship with the political class then things might have turned out differently, but his general antipathy towards Job Trunicht made it difficult and Yessica Edward's death closed that door.

>>283033969
I assume Yang would look support Caesar becoming empire but also not feel bad when the Roman senate stabbed him.

>>283030280 (OP)
Yes. Yang isn’t out of the ordinary in this regard. There have been many like him.

>>283030697
You say that as if the elections aren't rigged to hell and back which already happens in multiple modern countries less corrupt than the alliance. On the surface it's democracy vs monarchy but it's actually oligarchy vs monarchy.

>>283036007
The elections very clearly aren't rigged in LoGH. The Alliance's invasion of Imperial territory was a political stunt from the pro-war coalition that was otherwise expected to lose to the pro-peace coalition in the next election.

>>283030280 (OP)
Pick wisely anons

>>283036273
Julian is a lucky man.

>>283036273
The Kaiserin is very cute.

>>283035676
>americlaps
>proceed to not clap
I hope they get purged like when Stalin took power.

>>283036196
sure, but then again, while the exact loopholes aren't expanded upon, the political class and their loved ones aren't conscripted. especially when a nation's populace is atrophying due to war, savy politicians can swing votes by choosing which subsets of the population die in exploding spaceships.

>>283036273
for me it's Baroness von Westphalen.

>>283036412
Red head was basically irrelevant to the story though.

If you're going to talk politics at least relate it to 70-80s politics.

Anyways yang is superior pillow princess

>>283035676
>Yes. Yang isn’t out of the ordinary in this regard. There have been many like him.
It's bizarre behavior that doesn't work in any other setting.
Like animals challenge their old geezer leaders for alpha status and leave them to die. And those weren't even bad animals. They once lead their groups fine and never got them killed. But modern humans bend over backwards for the worst kind of dorks and geezers who get everyone killed.

>>283030280 (OP)
"be better" the character.

>>283037267
>animals challenge their old geezer leaders for alpha status and leave them to die
You mean like a coup d'etat? Those definitely happen, in some countries that's been the de facto method of transitioning power for generations.

>>283036412
Extremely based and patrician choice. Katerose best girl. Imagine how whiny and insufferable Julian would be without her firm, guiding tsundere hand

>>283037362
When I say modern, I mean mostly the West. It seems other places are a little more in touch with human nature (or nature in general). We, otoh, fully embraced an abomination of a political system. And all kinds of other self-destructive values that have led to low birth rates and letting foreigners rape your own daughters without fear. But now I digress.

>>283030697
next election will fix it

>>283034790
pretty much

>>283030697
the tragedy of the FPA is that it's not really a democracy anymore, can you really call elections free and fair when the Patriotic Knights Alliance go around intimidating opposition candidates? Can you really call it "democratic" when politicians pursue unpopular policies in the hope that things will go well and their numbers will improve by the next election?
But Yang is too indoctrinated to realize this.

>>283038072
i wouldn't consider yang indoctrinated, just principled.

>>283036196
>The elections very clearly aren't rigged in LoGH.
There are literally paramilitary groups roaming the streets engaging in terrorism and thuggery, that are connected to a religious minority and also their main colors are black and red
They are as fake and gay as modern elections

>>283036273
>woman who takes her own initiative to save your life
>woman who can only make sandwiches and can only save your life when other people do the planning
Jokes aside they are both quality.

>>283030697
>Of the electorate, 60% showed up to the polls
>Of the electors who voted, 30% voted for the party who comprise the government
>The issues on which the winning party campaigned on are sandbagged or quietly dropped, and issues that no one would have voted to implement in the first place are pushed through.
>You continue to get poorer, the economy continues to get worse, immigration continues to ramp up, housing prices continue to climb, social services continue to worsen, budget deficits continue to grow, your freedom of speech, property rights, and freedom of association continue to be eroded, violent criminals continue to exit revolving-door courtrooms while the book is thrown at political dissidents, company directors and civil servants continue to scratch eachothers' backs, elected officials openly use their positions to enrich themselves, taxes go up, the purchasing power of your paycheque goes down, the surveillance state continues to watch everything you do, the media continues to say everything's going great, and in four years there will be another general election that changes nothing, and your once-great nation continues along the slow, painful slide into barbarism.
Great system.

>>283037675
We just need to vote harder

>>283038124
Elections aren't rigged as long as (A) every ballot remains secret, and (B) every ballot gets counted, so in the case of LoGH the elections aren't rigged.

The PKC may be terrorists, but they can't steal your vote and they can't stop their dude from losing an election if the votes don't go that dude's way.

Maybe you don't know what rigged means, I dunno.

>>283038072
Yang's views are probably colored by the understanding that political intimidation and dubious policies are historically persistent problems in governance, democracy or otherwise. He does seem to realize that the current state of his democracy is in the pits, and that there's a golden age of authoritarianism happening. But as a historian he can't help but be aware that golden ages are a fleeting moment.

>>283038219
>but they can't steal your vote and they can't stop their dude from losing an election if the votes don't go that dude's way
I don't know how to tell you this, but the people in charge of vote counting are bureaucrats. If the bureaucrats are biased in one way there is nothing stopping them from invalidating votes they don't like or manufacturing votes. There are multitudes of ways to cheat votes which is why no one trusts the democratic system nowadays, people only LARP as defenders of it when it supports their interests at the moment or when they hold the reigns of power

>>283038222
>But as a historian he can't help but be aware that golden ages are a fleeting moment
As a historian he should also know that people make the system, not the other way around. He fundamentally admits he is biased because the FPA is all he knows and he has some loyalty to the ideology because of it. He even says he'd have signed up for Reinhard if he grew up in the Empire

>>283038251
Okay, now show that happening in LoGH. Or are you just borrowing an LoGH thread so you can talk about something else?

What we see in LoGH thread is that every vote counts, which is why the politicians are so desperate to sway voter opinion.

>>283030280 (OP)
The anime literally answers your question. Yang's answer is basically >>283030697. The people voted to violate their own rights.

>>283038222
of course he realizes how shitty the government is, the PKC came to his own house to intimidate him, he knows trunict is the slimiest most corrupt politician to ever live, he almost quit the military and let the empire steamroll the FPA because he was rightfully pissed about being unconstitutionally interrogated by the government because the politicians wanted to knock him down a few pegs when they realized he could easily win in a landslide election if he ever chose to get involved in politics.

>>283038271
Pretty much. My quibble is that I would characterize Yang as cynical rather than indoctrinated. He knows things suck but he also sees the alternatives also sucking so he sticks with the devils he knows, at least up to a point.

>>283038329
But like, what if I didn't vote for the politicians who wanted to continue the war with the empire?

>>283038329
>The people voted to violate their own rights.
Are they really violating themselves though? They may choose autocracy in order to have better security and prosperity and a better life for themselves and their children. That's way more important than some vague idea of "rights". That's the ruse of Democracy. Telling everyone that Freedom in itself is the end all be all value to be cherish above all others.
If a dad did fuck all for his family except give his children "freedom", then his family will probably be in ruins within a year.

>>283038329
i think yang literally says
>only the people have the right to take away the rights of the people
at some point

Him starting a rebellion was out of character, it's not like he'd be sentenced to death or anything. I like the Yang that's only fighting so he can retire early.

>>283037187
How do we go from badasses like Generals Mattis and John Kelly to a nasty girl “news” anchor?

>>283038588
You need to re-read or re-watch that section. He didn't start a rebellion, other people started a rebellion in his name and gave him no choice but to join the rebellion or watch as they all died.

>>283038271
Would an Asian even be able to make it to admiral in the goldenbaum empire? Does the empire even have any minorities left?

>>283038588
Admiral Stalin was getting antsy on letting him live freely.

>>283038702
I'd sooner pick a guy like picrel who can actually train with the rank and file than some geezer. It's unnatural behavior to put old people in charge of military. You're supposed to kick weak old men out of the pack. Just like wolves and wild horses do. They know this instinctually, but humans are pozzed and have built up all kinds of dumb philosophies that enable unnatural behavior that favors old useless farts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prviQu0rcDw

>>283030907
I get that he didn't clap at the national anthem and was kinda rude to the secretary of defense, but the knights had to know that murdering a war hero who just became the youngest admiral in history in his home would have basically turned everyone against their cause, right?

>>283038742
perhaps? they're not genociding anyone they consider subhumans anymore. but i don't think they've gotten beyond having to be germanic. i haven't seen any evidence they're willing to go beyond oberstein having a genetic condition with his eyes in the military.

>>283038875
What cause? Remember, the PKC isn't even FPA citizens, it's infiltrators from Phezzan/Terraists trying to sow chaos.

>>283038845
That guy's picrel can't do anything correctly, you know nothing about the matter.

>>283038905
The only reason to get mad is that you're a faggot. Just as pointless as an old man running a military. Hegseth isn't that interesting enough to care about otherwise.

>>283036273
we love Hilda here.

>>283038967
Mattis is a God of destruction. A drunkard nasty girl shouldn’t be running the DoD.

>>283039086
>God of destruction
The US hasn't decisively won any recent wars. It's an expensive joke. I'm American and can't even argue against what a meme it is. I don't like it, but I can't lie to myself and say it's an army of destruction led by gods of destruction.
You're getting mad about some guy...untested, for sure... but a guy who so far has gotten rid of woke rot and not friendly to fatasses. If you're mad about this, you have to be gay. Other than that, he has a hate on for enemies in our own hemisphere rather than shit that's 5000 miles away and only serves kikes.

>>283038506
Yeah, I never understood that either, what rights are being violated exactly? Pretty much every supposed "right" that you lose with autocracy can similarly be lost with democracy as well, especially if you weren't lucky enough to be part of the majority who voted in the current ruling government.

>>283039183
Everyone in the military is a kike simp. Pete is no different.

>>283038547
Yup.
Yang often weighs out the benefits of autocracy against democracy, even noting that sometimes an autocracy is what the people want, but his rigid adherence to his own democratic ideals keeps him loyal to the idea of the FPA, no matter how much he despises its current iteration.

>has sex one time
>Turns into a simp for an episode
He's just like us right anons?

>>283030280 (OP)
Yes, because in a monarchy people can blame someone else for everything wrong with their shit leaders but in democracy people only have themselves to blame for choosing them.

Does the show have girls in panties or hot uniforms?

>>283039927
In reality self-governance is nothing but an illusion. In a democracy the citizenry is lead to blame themselves and one another for results that are, in truth, completely beyond their abilities to control, fostering pointless division and finger-pointing.

>>283039904
>has sex one time
>with the best empress material in the empire
>instant impregnation
>instant marriage
>future of the bloodline secured
>never has sex again

>>283030697
Yang unironically says this

>>283038198
Immigration to the Federation continues to ramp up? From the Empire?

>>283030280 (OP)
>Doesn't take a step back and view both forms of government objectively.

>>283038032
He's just a mary sue
>we need someone who can win battles and give background information
Even him stepping in to rescue that politician is started by other characters.

Meanwhile Reinhard does things on his own without waiting to be forced to.

>>283039086
>nasty girl
American English is so weird.

>>283040244
I already didn't like Griffith in Berserk but Reinhard makes me dislike him even more.
Reinhard had 2 really low moments and he managed to crawl out of them with minimal damage, Griffith sabotaged himself in a stupid way.

>>283040583
>American English is so weird.
It would be nasty, drunkard girl. That post was wrong even for TRVE American English.

>>283039285
The idea is that if you lack political power, others will decide for you. But in reality, direct democracies don't exist for a good reason, and representional democracy is just oligarchy. It's not like you can actually decide on policies even if you vote and you have zero ability to enforce any promises. And the elected officials are not forced by anything to actually carry out their duties besides losing the next election, essentially they are free to do whatever.
In an autocratic system the official is directly responsible and cannot just do whatever once elected. Even in feudalism, a lord had to care for his people, he was directly dependant on them for taxes, so his income, and he was supposed to keep the land safe. It is very logical, if you ever played anything that involves land management you probably experienced first hand how it is better to be a good leader.

>>283040875
It's me I'm reuenthal when my friends are in relationships

>>283039183
>identity pol rant
please shut the fuck up
my fault for getting my hopes up that we were going to get actual politics discussion in a logh thread and instead we get spammed a bunch of fox news buzzwords

Yang is a boring Gary Stu

>>283037213
Just like women through history.

>>283040941
>>>/pol/

what the fuck are you serious

>>283039954
Is he autistic?

>>283040046
Yep, at least in the monarchy people can point at one person to cut the head off, which in turn makes sure the guy with the crown tries to not fuck up too much. In the democracy the blame is "shared" so it all ends up in a jumbled mess that no one knows where to start to fix it and the guy who is to blame gets scot-free in the confusion.

>>283041020
Nah, his democracy boner is a genuine character flaw and everyone around him points it out and it bites him in the ass.

Unless you are going to argue that holding a dogmatic view on a governance system is somehow a variation of
>he is too pure for this sinful world~

>>283033181
If he's an historian he should know that wannabe tyrants have no need for his precedent to go through with their abuses of power. It's completely unnecessary and makes no difference for actual tyrants.

>>283036273
Frederica mogs the shit out of MarineDORK

>>283036196
>>283038219
>Elections aren't rigged as long as (A) every ballot remains secret, and (B) every ballot gets counted, so in the case of LoGH the elections aren't rigged.

Lol, nope that not how it work at all; an election is considerd rigged as soon as the state outlet are biaised and propagandists tool, and dudes like the PKC are deployed against the opponent, with the state's collusion.
Only a turkish or hungarian or bulgarian troll could claims that the FPA's electoral system is not rigged and peferctly fine.

>>283041783
Exactly, it's just cope.

Reinhard is more sensible, because while a reluctant peacetime ruler, he makes sure the people are empowered. Yang just watches them get fucked and shrugs
>lol, at least there's no tyrant!
>b-b-but dictatorships are just another form of government. I am very smart.
He's a complete shambles, falling flat like many characters written by pampered Japanese to be deep thinkers.

Do you guys think Julian and Reinhard's compromise would work out in the long run? The proposal just amount to a possible semi-constitutional monarchy and leaving the Heinessen as a seed for future democratic movement to spread. It could all be easily thrown down by just one or two generations of incompetence on either side.

>>283041783
>>283042176
I do think a big part is that Yang wants to do as little as possible. In his position, Reinhard would be running rings around the FPA politicians, assuming he's sufficiently motivated to do so.

>>283039904
moe reinhard

>>283042804
>I do think a big part is that Yang wants to do as little as possible.
Agreed. Sometimes, I think all his talk of the democratic ideal and letting people vote for their own future is just a way for him to justify not getting involved in any major movements.

>>283033181
A potential future tyrant would have plenty of examples from history already regardless of what Yang did.

>>283042721
I think Reinhard planned to leave the door to constitutional monarchy open regardless of what Julian did and Heinessen is kinda meaningless because people who founded FPA in the first place didn't have Heinessen. History is recorded and a wind of change can blow from anywhere. Reinhard appeared completely out of nowhere and flipped the table on the Empire.

>>283030697
There is nothing wrong with stealing the election if it's for a good cause

>>283033181
I am aware he is keen on history. Still, it's just an excuse for his inability to make brave decisions.

>>283036273
Left.

>>283030280 (OP)
Yes OP, that is literally the fucking point of Yang, see >>283039321

>>283036273
THIS IS A JESSICHAD BOARD

>>283030280 (OP)
The series goes out of its way to usually play some especially triumphant Mahler (not necessarily bombastic or loud) during the "OH SHIT QUOTE DROP" moments so I dunno how you managed to miss shit

>>283041948
I love democracy, I love the republic

>>283030280 (OP)
He thinks highly of Reinhard and his regime, he even says that Monarchy is just as valid as government system like any other and with someone like Reinhard at the helm there might be a new golden age for humanity
But he sticks to Democracy because he knows Reinhard is literally 1 in a thousand years Monarch and he can't expect that the next man that steps on the throne to be the same
You need to understand, before Reinhard, every Royal before him was an inbreed doofus that only cared about staying in power, at least in a Democracy the people have power to make a change, it's infinitely more likely that someone that tries to fix things is born in the billions and billions of humans in all those planets and it's put in power than one guy's dynasty produces someone that gives a shit about the poor and its put in the throne every 40 to 60 years

>>283042835
He doesn't have that ambition and it's probably scared of fucking it up
Reinhard doesn't have that fear, he wants to grab power to himself and fulfill his dreams

>>283030697
TRUE!! Democracy is best

>>283042081
>dudes like the PKC are deployed against the opponent
rigged if they physically disperse gatherings and look through your ballot before you cast it.
>state outlet are biaised and propagandists tool
not rigged, corrupt

>>283030280 (OP)
>>283030907
KWAB

Why was the Empire's supporting cast so supremely based? Even fairly minor characters like Wahlen and Kessler got moments to shine.

For the FPA, it's pretty much just Schenkopp, Poplan, and then Fischer doing magic fleet movements

>>283044109
maybe the skilled people went for skilled peaceful jobs instead of a toothless corrupt military?

>>283043912
That was Bibi same as logh (((Phezzani backed terrarists)))

>>283044186
yea

Isn't it kinda disingenous for the author to pit a corrupt and broken democracy against a dictatorship that just happens to have a competent leader at the moment?
Maybe he did it because the right choise would be too obvious in that case.

>>283044264
They both started corrupt but the Empire got it's shit together faster than the FPA

>>283044264
It's done deliberately to illustrate the main argument of the series: is a great autocracy better than a dogshit democracy?

And the answer is yes, but the inherent flaw is that you might get 30-40 years of great government in an autocracy (if you're lucky; Reinhard clocked like 7), but you have no guarantee that the next leader will be anywhere near as competent. Democracy at least gives the people the option to peacably choose their own destiny and a new leader as needed. This is essentially Yang's argument.

>>283044376
>It's done deliberately to illustrate the main argument of the series
Read this >>283044360

>>283044376
>ut you have no guarantee that the next leader will be anywhere near as competent.
it's the same with democracy though, just because people vote for it doesn't really give any higher odds of the next leader being any good

>>283044421
Nah

>>283044477
It doesn't, but the right to violate the rights of the people belongs to the people. Even if they make a dogshit choice, it's their choice, rather than have leadership thrust upon them.

>>283030280 (OP)
Brothers, I never watched LOGH. Is it actually that good? Should I watch it?

>>283044509
>but the right to violate the rights of the people belongs to the people
a meaningless empty platitude, I'm sure if you told the people being violated it would make them feel loads better
> Even if they make a dogshit choice, it's their choice
even in a democracy that went by pure simple majority that could have 49% not making that choice, so it's a retarded argument.

>>283044572
watch it and form your own opinion.

>>283044509
>>283044639
If anything, a king abusing their power to violate my property rights is a slightly easier situation to rectify than 50%+1 of the population voting to violate my property rights.

>>283044477
But it does have check and balances in place to make it less likely a terrible leader will come into power.
Even if some shithead gets a lot of votes he won't become the leader of the county because other parties will refuse to work together with them to form a government.
(leaving aside America for a sec, you guys have a weird system where this can easily happen)

>>283030280 (OP)
I just need a big daddy to make it all alright

Let's face it: An anime like this would never be allowed to be produced, let alone be aired on TV these days.

>>283044905
Anon?

>>283044905
Why?

>>283044940
Political commentary exposing the current state of 'democracy' worldwide and making people aware of how it is abused.

>>283044905
DNT exists.

Did he do it?

>>283044905
This anime has a ongoing remake...

>>283045040
But the space krauts are twinks now so they’re not as cool.

>>283045012
i'm still unsure of this kid's purpose in the series. does he do anything in the books? because he's kind of just there in the anime like a diminutive kircheis

>>283043810
>is literally 1 in a thousand years Monarch
Hilda is the regent after he dies and is also a quite good ruler.
There have been times when capable leaders actually passed down to other capable leaders. Rome is an example where there was 5 in a row. No, I am not counting Marcus Aurellius, who passed it down to his retarded and incompetent son, but based Domitian until Antoninus Pius.

>>283044109
Dusty Attenborough was pretty good. I otherwise agree though.

>>283045343
That's why Reinhard keeps him around.

>>283045675
Actually Titus and Vespasian weren't bad either, so that's 8.
Vespasian-Antoninus is a kino era

One of the funniest moments in the series is when Reinhard is getting evacuated from the palace and has to change clothes, and it cuts to his guards rubbing their legs and arms and shit to keep warm but stop as soon as he exits the room.
What is your favorite gag/joke that no one ever talks about?

>>283045829
>jr first class mashengo
>yang: wtf is that???

>>283045958
he said one that no one ever talks about.

>>283045829
i loved this dialogue

>>283045212
Are you implying they weren't before?

>>283044960
Sounds like China would happily bankroll something like this

>>283044477
However it gives incentives for the next leader to at least not go full genocidal maniac and start a cult of personality. Say what you want about Trunicht, despite having the power to go full Rudolf von Goldenbaum, he knew that going that road from democracy was the quickest way for having his head on a pike.
I guess that's a plus of democracy. Even bad governments, as long as they are trying to keep the facade of being chosen by the majority, have still to keep appearances.
Yang was mostly afraid of the lack of accountability autocratic rulers have, which was a thing even with Reinhard. Ultimately he never faced punishment for Westerland, despite the show trying really, really hard to dupe us into thinking Kircheis' death was punishment enough, when it happened because of an unrelated issue.

>>283046483
>despite the show trying really, really hard to dupe us into thinking Kircheis' death was punishment enough
It wasn't, and he admits it which is also why he tries to save the assassin. He can't forgive himself still. Also even though Reinhard agreed with it after it happened, Oberstein lied about the time it was going to happen so when Reinhard said "I'll make my decision at the last moment" it was already too late. It is entirely Oberstein's fault, though I still agree with him because Reinhard needed a clear way to show how he was different from the high nobles that even an imbecile could see and as justification for heavy reforms.

The dark truth of the matter is people treat a crisis that did happen much more seriously than a crisis that could have possibly happened.

>>283045343
I feel like there is a very slight possibility that he slowly poisoned the emperor over time as revenge for his planet getting nuked on the emperors orders
not everyone believes this, pretty fringe theory. there is a slight hint at it when he gives Yang a weird look

>>283044509
What a stupid way of seeing things. Whether they have the "right" is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the likelihood of producing a good government.

>>283046693
it would be based, but oberstein was equally guilty.

>>283046693
heh, not bad. i'll buy into it

>>283046288
china has this performative democracy where people vote locally for policy and do nationwide non-mandatory voting for bigger things
their government council also has times where they summon all members of the party in one giant hall and do votes for big decisions but it's really all theater. they don't need to bankroll anything because they openly flaunt authoritarianism through a guise of democracy.
but then again they're not strictly communist anyway - they're a form of authoritarian capitalist in function but ultimately state owned

>>283046602
That's my point, the only somewhat tangible result of it was Reinhard's guilt over the matter, which never materialized in something that screwed him over. Even the incident with the assassin was quickly sweeped under the table and the viewer was hastily misdirected by the quirky love story of Reinhard's marriage. And let's face it, despite Reinhard pardoning him, Oberstein probably ordered him killed anyways because he knew too much.
There's also the thing with autocrats. When they're in charge, literally everything bad that happens within their rule is their fault because they have control over everything. It's easy to say "yes, it's Oberstein's fault", but it doesn't change the fact that it was Reinhard who put him in charge, while fully knowing that he'd move in the shadows and take immoral decisions for his benefit. Case in point, in the books, the whole Westerland shit was done with Reinhard's full approval, he wasn't duped into it.

>>283046981
>they're a form of authoritarian capitalist in function but ultimately state owned
I mean that's just how all communist states end up given time. Both Marxism and Capitalism are materialist even if neither admit it, makes sense that the same type of people end up dominating both systems.
>>283047078
>Oberstein probably ordered him killed anyways because he knew too much
There is no point. Oberstein wanted people to hate him to act as a shield for Reinhard. All Oberstein told him is that he personally told Reinhard he shouldn't even though he wanted to, which is something everyone with a brain already knew since Oberstein was so hated already. Oberstein also probably knew Kessler would have let the assassin kill himself.
>the only somewhat tangible result of it was Reinhard's guilt over the matter
There were a couple of things that resulted from it.
>rift with Siegfried causes Reinhard to take Oberstein's advice to deprive him of his weapon, directly leading to his death
>attempted assassination
>Reinhard reaches his lowest point post Siegfried death
>Reinhard gets wife and heir as a result of this low point and overcoming it to a degree
>Reinhard gets a moral reminder to not be like the Goldenbaums and that Westerland or anything like it cannot happen again
Whether or not you think that is satisfactory is another thing, but there are results. I think Westerland is also a reason why Reinhard declared a ceasefire/negotiation with Yang right before Yang gets assassinated. In Reinhard's mind, his argument with Siegfried about it is the last time they talked, so when he says that Kircheis told him to stop fighting Yang, it invokes Westerland. Kind of subtle though.

>>283045829
I don't remember that at all.
For me the funniest bits are Lang getting shat on by Reuenthal out of nowhere, Eisenhach speaking, Bittenfeld at the opera, and Yang mentioning they could just burn the planet's atmosphere with a match and then it cuts to Reinhard firing a nuclear missile onto it

>>283047466
>Bittenfeld at the opera
I somehow forgot about this, that was pretty good too.
Some of the humor is really underrated in LotGH

>>283047339
Sure it did a number on Reinhard's worldview, hence it always gets brought back every now and then, but considering how it never caused the appearance of dissident groups, led to the rise of people who wanted revenge, and that he died before all the worshipping of his character started to die down and his actions during his ascent could really be put under scrutiny, it's kinda hard to think it actually mattered
Especially in LoGH, since nobody else enjoyed that privilege. For everyone else, be it the Empire, the FPA, Yang or even Reinhard's own subordinates, choosing to do or not to do something always meant they had to deal with more tangible consequences.

THIS. IS. DEMOCRRRRACY. MANIFEST.

yang is a buffoon. he smashed a necklace right as it was being worn.

>>283046693
I took Emil giving Yang a weird look as him just feeling smug that his Kaiser won the war over him. Never got the sense that Emil actually disliked Reinhard.

>>283045829
bonding between admirals over absolutely hating oberstein
mashengo, what is that?
poplan and schehenkopp being womanisers.
bittenfeld repeatedly jobbing
eisenhach doing gestures to give battle commands
julian getting irritated by yang and co passing around liquor during meeting
mrs cazellnu being the alpha wife
frederica being a bad cook.
yang's friends teasing yang

>>283047828
>it never caused the appearance of dissident groups, led to the rise of people who wanted revenge
Because Oberstein openly takes credit for it and people already think he's a snake.
He probably even openly took credit for it during the assassination to make it clear to Kessler and all the officials close to him, just to really clear that it is on him and not Reinhard. Part of Oberstein's job was to prevent stuff like that which is one of the reasons he tolerated Lang.
Before that there was only suspicion that Reinhard allowed it.
And yeah, Reinhards rule was short so it makes sense we wouldn't see the full consequences of it.
>choosing to do or not to do something always meant they had to deal with more tangible consequences
If Reinhard didn't do it, he faced a longer and more bloody war and slower reforms. The consequences of it are pretty tangible.
To me a comparison on the opposite side of the coin is Yang not killing Reinhard in battle and following the surrender order.
He could have saved a lot more FPA lives and even says he possibly even betrayed a lot of their deaths by following that order, but he did follow the order in the end.
He took a moral stand instead of Reinhard taking a more practical one, even if Reinhard was tortured over it. Not to mention that the FPA would have lived and the empire would have had to decide a brand new leader, which would have necessitated further war. If I were to guess, Reunthal would eventually win.

LIBERTY STAND FOR FREEDOM
O HAIL THE FRAG THAT SET US FREE
https://youtu.be/vQABJsRvHQw?si=DB-JrNVmpniLlk4J

why did the OVAs neuter Reinhard?
>Westerland in novels
Hm... sure, let's do it.
>Westerland in OVAs
wait wait let me take some time to think...
Nooo, save me kircheis, if only you were here...

>>283030280 (OP)
>>283030697
One of Yang's arguments is that if you decide to support autocracy there's no going back unlike democracy where you can remove the bad ruling party

>>283043670
Mittermeyer pls

>>283046203
This is peak male performance

>>283045012
yes, did you see how devastated he was in the morning after Hilda and Reinhard slept together?
It was a yaoi revenge.

>>283038702
Mattis and Kelly won't touch this shit with a ten foot pole, just like nearly everyone else from the first administration. That's how.

anime

>>283039321
Yang's whole story is meant to mirror the 1970s gripe with Japan basically beibg ruled by a single party forever, somthing that has barely been able to be changed. The whole reason the FPA falls apart was apathy by the people at large to choose better parties. It's basically a tragic take on real life where things truck on without reinventing themselves until they crash and burn, while some systems just win out by being willing to reinvigorate the government (autocracy or not) before it falls apart on itself.

>>283030280 (OP)
A Greenhill/Yang government would have been best.
Lynch admiral Lynch.

>>283048175
>>283046693
>>283045012
>He serves both Reinhard and Yang some coffee
>Yang fucking hates coffee and doesn't drink it when he realizes what it was
>Reinhard just drinks it
>Reinhard dies just a few years after
I always thought he was trying to poison Yang (the reason he gave him the look) and poisoned Reinhard by mistake

>>283048769
Which is a stupid argument because authoritarian regimes can and have become less authoritarian.

>>283045829
Bittenfeld steals whatever scene he's on

>>283041542
>In the democracy the blame is "shared"
"Hang Mike Pence!" was a pretty recent protest slogan only a few short years ago in a democracy. Individual politicians are held accountable by the masses for their actions and inaction. There is no reason the political class of today cannot be French Revolutioned away like the Bourbon.

>>283041783
I think there's an argument to be made that there is no emperor Augustus without Gaius Julius Caesar crossing the rubicon.

>>283042804
If Yang made overt moves into politics he'd just get shot by some rando like Bruce Ashbey, which is kind of what ended up happening in the end with Andrew Falk, but not quite.

>>283044109
Pretty much everyone in the FPA is pretty specialized while the higher ups in the Empire are encouraged to be generalists. Also a lot of the FPA's more based characters die, a lot of them during the failed invasion of the empire. There's Lap and Yessica, Bucock, Fred's dad, the two Konevs and the entirety of the 730 maffia blows the competing cast on the Empire's gaiden side of the story out of the water.

Post the Lang bit where he explains to Oberstein how even democracy is the rule of minority.

>>283049618
Why are Chinese people so rude?

>>283049657
Not by the ruling party's choice. It usually happens with force. The Magna Carta was signed "peacefully", and by peacefully I mean they were literally threatening the king kek

>>283044264
part of the thing LotGH heroes is trying to demonstrate is that systems of government or what shape they take aren't all that consequential, what is of consequence is the people who try to will the world into a better place than they found it.

>>283044509
Leaders get to shape the choice people are given. If your choices are between two viable political parties where there is one who offers a 10% tax increase, and another who wants to reduce government services in way that directly impacts your quality of life, is that a fair choice? I suppose then there's always the third option of violent uprising. I didn't vote for the military of my country to go and occupy parts of Afghanistan, nor did I get a vote for the ongoing trend of European Union intergration.

>>283045343
Reinhard wanted to be a big brother and do for someone what Annerose did for him. He's repaying his debt to Annerose and Kircheis by giving Emil the opportunity to be more than an orphan cabin boy. Also, iirc, it was Hilda's idea to make him Reinhard's personal servant, so it's also part of her caring for Reinhard more than she feels she should.

>>283049987
I thought his name was Korean

>>283050055
And? Yang himself was the main holder of military force in the FPA.

>>283050370
Yang prefers things happening peacefully rather than with force. He also never wanted to be a soldier so he was biased for this

>>283049782
>. Individual politicians are held accountable by the masses for their actions and inaction. There is no reason the political class of today cannot be French Revolutioned away like the Bourbon.
There are 2 issues with this
>1
One, two, a few politicians, hell even a whole party falling makes no difference because in democracy more than any other power system the creation stealthy hydras is everpresent, you vote one party out and the other party just does the same thing because they were both bought by the same people who is not elected but can influence both parties. You cut one head, another pops up and the one in control is in the back not being noticed.
>2
The problem above makes the failsafe true on paper but fake on practice, which makes any form of real change (aka violence) seem unnecessary and "evil" by default as you could have totally voted the problem away, but instead chose a bad form or reform, bringing back the problem of the "blame" being shared by the citizens. The illusion of choice is much more harmful than it might seem at first glance.

The latter problem is specially bad when you consider the military/police force view into this, as within an authoritarian state while the rise of the population may not technically be a legal failsafe, its also the "only way available" to make change, so the cause seems much more sympathetic to the army, making them consider their alliance or if they are "righteous" in their support of the system. In a democracy, because you "voted for this" and can "vote away of this" any form of rebellion is automatically viewed as excessive force, making it in their minds 100% clear the army is in the right for defending the state as they are "defending democracy" and the REAL choice of the people, not some minority. Once again, the illusion of choice making true change harder than the lack of choice.

>>283050391
He was just too afraid to be seen as a tyrant to take necessary action during a crisis. The FPA fell because of his meekness.

>>283048769
Its a flawed argument because democracy as a concept doesn't work the way he describes or thinks it does. There are so many mechanisms and levers available in a liberal democracy to ensure that no matter which party wins, it will be someone who plays ball with the powers behind the scenes.
>just start a new party
>just find another politician
Again, there are countless ways to ensure that you can kill any new movement in the crib. Countless ways to make the average voter believe all of this isn't happening at all.
There's really no difference between autocracy and democracy in essence, since the latter devolves into autocracy with extra steps hidden from the common citizen.

>>283050417
You're not wrong. One of the pernicious aspects of democracy is the whitewashing of government action. They were elected, so surely their every policy is legitimate, regardless of any negative impact or unpopularity.

>>283040737
Nasty Girl is slang for National Guardsman. National Guard -> NG -> Nasty Girl

>>283050288
He’s based off a Korean but Yang’s name is really Chinese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Sun-sin

>>283050288
>>283050969
Go even a little backwards in Korean history and the line gets pretty fuzzy, much to their indignation.

>>283030280 (OP)
And that's why LoGH is a autocracy-wank.

>democratic side
>only ever get incompetent politician who are somehow good at lying to a free press
>populace is highly educated and are fully aware the empire would still force them to live in poverty, still welcome dictator
>don't actually defend democracy, this include Wang who refuse to become le GENERAL DE GAULE and protect democracy from a decision made at gunpoint
>only relent and fight back AFTER the democracy fell and he no longer has any public support
>put into power a nobody with no experience just by association with his legendary aura

>autocracy side
>just kill a few guy and suddenly everyone else is infinitely competetent and trustworthy
>half of the populace was brainwashed into a pseudo-pastoral lifestyle for generation, are somehow still productive, never yearn for better condition
>don't actually act like a autocracy, no deep rooted corruption, nepostism instantly disappear, no difficulty to purge oligarchs who would have no problem lying to or corrupting inspectors
>basically act the same as the king he overthrew, sending people to their death to satisfy his lust for battle,
>die from space aids, leaving the legacy that power should be given to anyone good at killing their opponents

Don't forget the "democracy" being autocratic with the wife of the supreme leader taking over and his adoptive son taking charge of the military.

>>283051062
The whole point of him dying from space aids is to throw uncertainty into the mix since Muh Based Autocrat is gone and we have no idea how the next motherfucker will run things, bringing the strengths and weaknesses between it and democracy full circle. You lack media literacy.

>achieves the rank of Captain in his 30s as a commoner in the Goldenbaum Empire
>over-aggresive ship captain sinking two enemy battleships with one volley
>hand-picked by Reinhard to be in his admiralty
>defeats assigned enemy fleet during Amlitzer
>breaks Bucock's back during Rantemario, winning the battle for the Empire
>breaks Bucock's back AGAIN, putting an end to the FPA forever
>breaks Yang's back by sinking Fischer's flagship, killing him, and forcing Yang to surrender
>breaks Reuenthal's back by melting his left flank and forcing him to retreat
>breaks Julian's back by sinking the Hyperion and killing Merkatz
>storms and jumps into a burning building to personally save and carry the Kaiser to safety

Bittenfeld was the unsung MVP of the Empire and also most effective admiral.

>>283036412
>>283037418
She played her cards well
>end up in close relation to the young man made into a savior
She's basically as close as she could get from a position of power.

Anyone got the fanart of Yang spilling tea or coffee on his left leg?

>>283046693
>>283045012
Didn't the doctors say it was a genetic disease? Collagen related I believe.
There is no reason to doubt Emil.

>>283051209
got you covered

>>283051187
But she'll have to sexo a gormless dork. The cost isn't worth it. Unless you're implying they have a weird open relationship where she does whatever she wants while he stays home and plays on his Nintendo Switch.

>>283051274
Perfect. Thanks.

>>283030280 (OP)
He faught not for the people but the system.

>>283038072
>can you really call elections free and fair when the Patriotic Knights Alliance go around intimidating opposition candidates?
>>283038124
Don't be silly, that's just fakenews against honest supporters of the "Make Alliance Great Again" movement.
Yang is just woke and trying to cancel culture.

To the Admiral Bittenfeld!

O Admiral, Imperial devil and damned devil’s kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of admiral are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of sons of Democracy; we have no fear of your army, by land and by space we will battle with thee, fuck thy mother.

Thou Reinhard’s scullion, Kaiser’s wheelwright, brewer of Odin, tiger-fucker of Empire, swineherd of Iserlohn and Phezzan Corridors, pig of Rudolph, Amritsar thief, catamite of Oberstein, hangman of Black Lancers, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before the whole Galaxy, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig’s snout, tigers’s arse, slaughterhouse cur, autocratic brow, screw thine own mother!

So the Iserlohn Republic declare, you lowlife. You won’t even be herding pigs for the Republicans. Now we’ll conclude, for we don’t know the date and don’t own a calendar; the Iserlohn’s in the sky, the year with the Liberty, the day’s the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!

Admiral Dusty Attenborough, with the whole Iserlonhn Fleet.

>>283051062
That's "how" LoGH is autocracy wank. "Why" LoGH is autocracy wank has more to do with it coming from a country that was most relevant as the dominion of successive autocrats, and had democracy imposed upon them by a vanquishing foreign power.

>>283051062
Its really not. Its asking you if you prefer an enlightened despot, merely to make you think about how democracy actually works. Where you go with that (worshipping autocracy like a retard, or simply realizing its all autocracy) is up to you.

>>283051376
>Armchair idiots once again ignoring any point that refutes them >>283051152
But go ahead, keep on making your pop psychology lukewarm takes about the writer's country of origin.

>>283047466
>Wang mentioning they could just burn the planet's atmosphere with a match and then it cuts to Reinhard firing a nuclear missile onto it
Just wanted to mention the plan is retarded, obviously unrealistic or the slightest explosion would burn Jupiter, and their SPACE WARSHIP likely use nuclear propulsion or something just as likely to start a reaction just by being here.

To me that scene is just a low effort attempt at coming up with "oh so clever" strategy.
Same as Lang reinventing Relativistic projectile, which is plain common sense as soon as it is possible

>>283051120
Poltical dynasty happens in our democracies as well.

>>283051504
If you go in expecting hard sci-fi you're going to be disappointed. All of the space battles might as well be a hallucinogenic trip imagining of conventional land-based warfare. Its best to enjoy them purely for the visual spectacle and feel. The meat of the show is in the intrigue, the dialogue and basically everything other than the space battles.

>>283030280 (OP)
My parents tell me of the socialist era where there were only two brands of biscuits in the entire country and they were produced by the same factory and looked and tasted the exact same just with different packaging
I would like to avoid living through that

>>283051567
well you have to go to the ballroom of democracy and dance along then. just keep the national budget as dependent on highly educated, productive citizens as possible so they're forced to treat you decently.

>>283049657
>Which is a stupid argument because authoritarian regimes can and have become less authoritarian.
They only become less when they cease to be authoritarian.
Authoritarianism only leads to 3 result:
- stagnation of the populace while the oligarchs get rich from being lucky selling something richer countries want
- stagnation of both populace and oligarchs as most of the effort is wasted protecting the system
- self-destruction and replacement by another regime

>>283051567
Ah yes, not being able to consume more variety of goy slop, or buy a new smartphone every other month. Truly a dystopian nightmare.

>>283051567
You know you can have an authocracy with a capitalist economic model right?Because if you live in the "west" this is what you will be getting.
Not every dictatorship is communism.

>>283030697
Our so-called representatives only represent themselves and the moneyed interest groups that back them. They hate the common man and treat us like replaceable cattle. But at least we can put our slave suggestions in the slave suggestion box once every few years.

>>283051152
>>283051062
LoGH's democracy is based on Japan's, which generally is a very rigid system that refuses any shakeup thrown its way. The series is based on 1960s/70s political angst wherein the establishment is unshakeable and more and more uncaring. You can see it with how the LDP has been in power almost continuously since 1955, only kind of recently around the 2000s ever losing that grip on power.
Ultimately LoGH just represents the desire for change, but one has to make a judgement of what that change costs, and the cost of not changing. Since Yang represents this angst with the political system, disliking it but not doing anything about it out of principle, he also turns out to be more of a warning to the reader of what happens if you let everything to go shit.
On a similar bend, Reinhard and his empire is nearly a fantasy-tier scenario where everything aligns and the government unfucks itself with a despot at the top. This being by surrendering the freedom in the system to uncertainty down the line, and the whole question being if that is actually worth it.
Given how the story ends with Julian and Reinhard's whole talk, and Hildegard introducing rules for the throne and a constitution, Reinhard seems to have realized these faults himself.
The idea that it's somehow pro autocracy wank is retarded if you just pay attention to who the author is for 5 seconds. However, it's a pretty neutral story in its portrayal, which is a nice change of pace that makes some people flip out for some reason.

>>283047078
>>283047339

Didn't Oberstein already admit to letting Westerland get nuked in public after the assassin admitted he tried to kill Reinhard over it?

>>283051152
The ending is a bullshit cope at the end to pretend the show don't encourage autocracy.
Everything up to that point "demonstrate" there's no collective wisdom and only space-jesus matter. The only choice of the population is to serve whoever is better at taking control.

>>283051376
Your answer is as if Japan globally yearned for a new autocrat, but that's just the author.
Japan does have a fascination/respect for strong autocrat power due to their history; but just like the German they also witnessed first-hand democracy win while their autocrats were just ordering them to kamikaze to save their lives.

No population support a system that lost. Part of why the Russian have no problem being Putin's slave is because their past dictators were not thoroughly defeated, they just drifted away because of incompetency.

>>283051926
yes

>>283050880
Never heard that one before, how odd.

>>283039954
Nah, Autistic people woudln't do that

>>283051152
>we have no idea how the next motherfucker will run things
Hilda is shown to be competent.
Anyway the point of LotGH isn't that one system is better, it is that good people will be good no matter the system and bad people will be bad.
A system change is just an excuse to get new people in

>>283051629
this implies almost all the democracies we see now are authoritarian, as they all appear to be stagnating and some self-destructing. honestly democracy just appears to be a facade, and underlying it is the usual business.

>>283051559
Big difference between "expecting hard-SF" and "expecting basic consistency and non-insulting twists".
Soft-SF can be done well, all you need is to plan ahead the limit you will NOT cross and fake logic you WILL respect.
It's obvious that LoGH is firing-line warfare in space. Literally has space "fording".
But that part with the nuke? Definitely not creative writing.

In comparison the Fortress-battles was creative, even if the weakpoint was obvious.

>>283051323
>Don't be silly, that's just fakenews against honest supporters of the "Make Alliance Great Again" movement.
I meant to imply they were antifa, sorry if I was too subtle. Pretty sure they were even doing pic related in Britain too, police were also caught bussing them in to disrupt migrant hotel protests.

>>283050417
>they were both bought by the same people
why are you assuming they were bought rather than compelled by force of arms, moved by their earnest belief in a divine good that they value more than the nation they profess to serve, or where pushed into obediance by a technolgy company that tracks their entire digital history and has acces to their private conversations, pictures and potentially even journals?

Having large anonymous, amorphous, and potentially shifting, group of stakeholders controlling the politicians without de-anonymizing themselves from out of the public view almost makes it seem as though we exist within a democracy of millions.

>>283051825
>You can see it with how the LDP has been in power almost continuously since 1955
IMO, the state of LOGH do not portray the LDP, it's only the usual set of flaws of democracies. As pointed out earlier >>283036196 the FPA politic was healthy and subject to serious change.

>Since Yang represents this angst with the political system, disliking it but not doing anything about it out of principle, he also turns out to be more of a warning to the reader of what happens if you let everything to go shit.
Not wrong, but Wang simply did the equivalent of chickening out as soon as he didn't have anyone else taking responsibility for his action.
A Democracy is meant to be defended by any citizen, regardless of what others think or do about it, the end result must always be democratic.
And that's where Yang failed, he pretend to love democracy but didn't fight for it.

>On a similar bend, Reinhard and his empire is nearly a fantasy-tier scenario where everything aligns and the government unfucks itself with a despot at the top
You just pointed out here why the sudden change of mind at the end is worth nothing.
From the moment Reinhard take power, the story promotes top-down decision-making and make bottom-up democracy into a joke.

The author may not intend it, but he did make an autocracy-wank. Not the first time a story would send the opposite message by accident.
It doesn't help that it is very hard to make the process and qualities of democracy into a fun story. Especially while keeping Yang important over "collective wisdom".

>>283052508
>Having large anonymous, amorphous, and potentially shifting, group of stakeholders controlling the politicians without de-anonymizing themselves from out of the public view almost makes it seem as though we exist within a democracy of millions.
Its not at all a very large group relative to the total population, and in no way does this even resemble the bill of sale for the democracy being sold to us. Its not even technocracy (which is at least the autocracy of a class of highly skilled and educated people), its techno-feudalism and we are the serfs.

>>283052692
>The author may not intend it, but he did make an autocracy-wank. Not the first time a story would send the opposite message by accident.
What you call autocracy wank is a historical fact. Almost every time large strides were made, technologically, economically, etc it was due to a strong and competent autocrat. The enlightened autocrat is the best ruler you can have, but as LotGH points out this doesn't mean autocracy in itself is worth pursuing or idolizing since an enlightened autocrats reign is often followed by many more inept rulers.

>>283052383
That's the equivalent of the far right pretending to be oppressed by antifa, just as they run a car into protesters, murder people for their skin color, while the president Job Trumpicht obfuscate it as "there are bad guys on both sides".

>>283030697
What if I didn't though?

>>283030280 (OP)
I always thought that logh was asking the audience whether they would want to live under a corrupt democracy or a benevolent dictatorship.

>>283052827
>Almost every time large strides were made, technologically, economically, etc it was due to a strong and competent autocrat
That's a big fat lie only used by corrupt politician or shady businessmen, manipulating media to make themselves look good through a personality cult.
Every superpower that matter gained their strength and technological superiority during democratic periods.
Every autocratic system stagnated at best, only achieving anything against countries not prepared, or because they had a natural advantage in resources.

No "enlightened autocrats" can ever match even an average democratic system, because by nature it is only a single person surrounded by loyalist yesmen or opportunists and a single man cannot reward merit in a systemic way.
You need a system for that, and the only self-correcting system is democratic in nature.

>>283053308
>Every superpower that matter gained their strength and technological superiority during democratic periods.
Look close enough and you'll find someone resembling an autocrat or oligarchs there as well. Democracy is a sham. That's not an endorsement of outright autocracy either, its possible to condemn both.

>>283053151
I think it does at first,
but then it makes it clear towards the end that the question itself is a nonstarter.
The people who are arguing in this thread just never realized that the question was a nonstarter.

>>283030280 (OP)
>change things
>10% of population dies
>situation remains unchanged
Next you are going to tell me he is historian or something.

>>283048769
The ruling party hides in the shadows and controls every politician with money and blackmail, so voting will never remove it by itself. In fact, it's harder to eliminate the shadow oligarchs who keep hiding behind puppet leaders than to eliminate a king, dictator or tyrant.

>>283051504
Well, this anime as a whole is like that. Enjoyable story, but pretentious at times. Or even silly.

>>283053308
>muh merit
What a meme. The best way to make progress is to have unity. A team of average people working in perfect unity with the same goal will do better than a team of skilled people who are extremely divided and constantly backstab each other.

>>283053764
yeah, democracy / republicanism really just seems to be hidden oligarchy

>>283053335
>mischievously increases military budgets...
what are they spending those budgets on them? squicky old tanks, fat apathetic generals who cannot even clap for America's heroes? HRT for the troops? segregated toilets for men, women and nonbinaries?

>Americans ruin a LoGH thread by bringing it back to their own country's dogshit political affairs
Just post the funny screenshots you goddamn degenerates

>>283053308
NTA but this is too basic of a look at things
The things that drive technology is economy
The romans advanced their tech by bringing stable trading and economy to the mediterranean but they were still an empire at the end of the day. Rennaissance era kingdoms were still kingdoms, but they had powerful merchant classes that grew to outclass the Church at large by the 1600s and became practically the largest of all time through stuff like the Dutch East India Company
And to put it in a modern context, a place with a normal pursuit of wealth, talent and assets outlasted the soviet union which tried to avoid having the economy play into tech development, leading to an insanely slow, selective and inefficient route to achieving the tech they needed whilst in the west technology basically improved everywhere at once with no breaks.
The question is more so how great the peace, trade and competition you can enable is.

>>283052884
Really still trying this after the assassinations?

>>283049896
https://youtu.be/jXYv4tyN1v0

Does LoGH still reflect the average Japanese's feelings on democracy vs autocracy? Are they content with the democratic system in place?

>>283038742
An Asian? Sure
Yang? No chance. Dude would have pissed off too many nobles and ended up dead in a ditch before the empire ever realized his talents.

>>283040634
Griffith makes no sense after all we get to see of him. All the things he did to get that high up, he was within sight of his goal and could have just waited like a good boy and made it to king. Makes no sense character wise.

However, I have always viewed that as the behlit changing his mind to follow the strand of fate. Basically in my head cannon Griffith was mind fucked by the god hand into doing the princess.

>>283055897
Right? The Charolottesville BS doesn’t hold up after BLM/numerous assassination attempts/and the glorification of the Israeli murder of Kirk.

Proof they are a government OP. Only a government program could get that out of date, that fast.

>>283057626
Well a Yang raised in the empire would not have risked pissing off nobelshits.

>>283055897
>assassinations
We haven’t even gotten the motive from Kirk’s shooter yet.

>>283038742
I wouldn’t be surprised if the empire basically forgot to be racist or even the concept of racism because it has so few if any minorities left.

>>283053308
>Every superpower that matter gained their strength and technological superiority during democratic periods.
How illiterate are you to actually believe this? Even the most democratic countries to have ever existed have historically disenfranchised not only women but also the vast majority of adult men (through requirements such as property or taxes paid) until as recently as a century ago or less. Democracy is a recent phenomenon. The West became democratic long after achieving technological superiority while China modernized under a totalitarian regime and has been autocratic for its entire long history.

>>283047951
?

Is this a metaphor for that one time he walked in on Frederica and Mashengo in bed? Pearl necklace?

>>283038742
>>283059405
>Imperial Yang on the other end of the 'what is that?/why is he on this ship?' meme

>>283030697
If only there was a way to make the people vote the way I want so that they pick the smartest person (me).

>>283062559
Just tell them what they want to hear

>>283039321
So if 51% want to get rid of democracy everything's fairgame isn't it?

>>283038072
Yang realizes all of this. He knows how corrupt and inept FPA is, but he would rather sit on his ass and try to uphold it because he believed in "democracy" on a spiritual level. It's almost like a religion to him. Only by upholding it's ideal can he feel like he's doing good, which is why he didn't just seize power, throw the corrupt into prison and then have new elections. Had he done that, FPA would have been saved, but since that would have required him to take initiative and upend democracy for a moment, he couldn't do it.

>>283061474
the necklace over heinessen

>the enemy outnumber us 1 to 100!
>and is flying their spaceships in a donut shaped formation, what should we do Yang!?
>hmmm
>just fly in a uhm... triangle form into their donut
>WOW YOU'RE RIGHT THAT WILL TOTALLY LET US WIN YOU'RE A GENIUS YANG PLEASE OVERTHROW OUR DEMOCRACY!

>>283049782
Mass killing of the political classes of every country on earth wouldnt accomplish much of anything. You'd need repeated killings to really set the message straight and no offensive like that could ever be sustained because the very act of it would throw the public surveillance into chaos. People instinctively won't throw their lives away to kill some middle manager parasite. They'd rather excomunicate the board of directors from life first

Was a long time since I watched, but wasn't there a pretty much nose on(heh) Jewish "neutral" faction that just orchestrated shit behind the curtains within the two factions to make themselves richer and more powerful?

>>283051504
I know but I don't mind it, it's not like I brought it up for top10 smartest logh strategies or top20 most realistic hard scifi moments.
It's just my kind of humor.

>>283064538
Yes there fucking was, and it's one of the reasons this show is top tier. Fucking Phezzanis

This is weird as fuck
what the hell is his issue?

>>283062335
>why is the fleet admiral on his own command ship
Heh

>>283064716
You bring flowers to your friends house dinner. Dingus

>>283051062
>populace is highly educated and are fully aware the empire would still force them to live in poverty, still welcome dictator
>vs
>half of the populace was brainwashed into a pseudo-pastoral lifestyle for generation, are somehow still productive, never yearn for better condition
Always bothered me that the Alliance planets were high tech industrial worlds and the Empire planets were medieval farm worlds with spaceports and palaces. Where did the Empire get the industrial capacity to churn out fleets and those massive liquid metal battlemoons?

>>283065368
Wulf is just glad Oscar hasn’t said any of his Andrew Tate nonsense in front of his wife.

>>283065368
>paunch
He’s got to have bagged this babe shortly after

>>283065445
I figured the Empire had a subset of nobles who didn't play business/politics/war and instead focused on inventing shit for the sake of it, like Lloyd from Code Geass.

>>283064716
>he doesn't bring a gift when he visits somebody's house for dinner
Go ask your father (if you know who he is) to beat you for not learning basic etiquette.

>>283065562
Yeah, like a bottle of wine or something. Flowers is kinda weird.

>>283065451
Bratty assassin, needs correction ! !

>>283062644
that's exactly what happened with the brexit vote
51% wanted to leave and the entire geopolitics of the UK and EU got flipped on its head with the repercussions still being felt today, with the remainers being completely powerless to do anything

>>283034709
the majority of non communist/socialist dictators were chosen by the people

>>283043810
>than one guy's dynasty produces someone that gives a shit about the poor and its put in the throne every 40 to 60 years
What if the successors are born and raised in the context of being a steward to its people though, and potential successors are ruled out depending on their lack of morality and morals
Also worst-case scenario, one evil and horrid head of state is going to be be easier to get rid of than even half the unswayable and shitty self-interested or retarded voters

>>283044572
It's a massive amount of OVA episodes that remain consistent in quality, and something memorable enough that, despite it being years and years, people will still be able to recognize names or at least faces of B-lister and C-lister characters and still remember fond or notable things about them. Half the thread consists of politely discussing the main question of the show, one which has no objectively clear answer but doesn't paint either of its sides as genuinely retarded. Even the fact that the OP and ED focus on two opposite factions indicates that neither side is evil or are villain protagonists, but are good people fighting for what they believe in. Even some horrible villains are shown that outside of the immediate context, they were otherwise pretty good and likable people.

It is a very good and nuanced show anon, you should watch it and form your own opinion and decide who your favourite characters are!

>>283065586
AIEEEEEEEEEEE!!

>>283066233
And the south is still seething about it.