Thread 283414777

Why does Fate route get so much hate? Saber's arc & her romance with Shirou were done really well

>>283414777 (OP)
It leaves some mysteries unsolved and Shirou is more based towards women.

>>283414821
>It leaves some mysteries unsolved
The way Nasus solves his mysteries is terrible. Fate is better without answers.

I don't understand either. It's my favorite route. It's straightforward, explains the lore the best, contains epic fights, dark revelation and has arguably the best romance.
Heaven's feel is just too fucking weird like, Shirou acts way out of line even for a normal person. There's no way he would have let a thousand people die without doing anything and then let the culprit just get to live free and happy.
There's a reason why Last Episode is linked to Fate Route and not UBW or Heaven's Feel. Both routes are toxic AF for my man Shirou
And more importantly this pos Shinji gets what he deserves in Fate's route.

>>283414877
>and then let the culprit just get to live free and happy
I mean, it's the girl he loves in that route.

>>283414777 (OP)
It's only meant as a taster to better drive home how much more important Sakura is in F/SN's True End, once you're supposed to kill her. Like a boy leaving behind his childhood crush to become a man.

>>283414970
>True End
You mean this?

>>283414777 (OP)
>Why do people hate this one niptoon arc...
Get over it. You aren't a manchild, ffs.

>>283414910
She killed a thousand+ people from her own town anon. She would have tortured Rin and Shirou for eternity if they had let her have her way as shown in Tiger Dojos.
Ever since they met every single action thought Sakura had towards Shirou can be summed up to: "I hope he gets hurt and fails".
There is not a positive single thing Sakura ever did or hoped for Shirou. I know Shirou has self esteem issues but that's just disgusting.
Nasu has become redundant with the "simp saves raped girl turned psycho" trope

>>283415022
gf >>>> 10000000 randos
Simple as.

>>283414777 (OP)
Because Ufotable didn't adapt it.

>>283414850
>Saber's identity revealed
>Avalon being responsible for saving Shirou's life as a kid, acting as a catalyst and healing his wounds throughout the route
>Kirei (who's supposed to be a neutral judge) being a master
It's kino.

>>283414970
>B-But Sakura
No.

>>283415003
>>283415095
You can cry all you want, but all of Fate is just there to make Heaven's Feel more poignant as the story wraps to its close. Explaining the rules of the HGW so they can be subverted in the final arc. Mirroring the first major victory from Fate with Shirou/Medusa vs Saber. Analysing and ultimately rejecting his hollow ideals that kept getting him killed throughout Saber's arc (which outright ends with Shirou and Saber's unceremonious deaths).

Fate's the tutorial level.

>>283415182
>Mirroring the first major victory from Fate with Shirou/Medusa vs Saber

Explain

How do you think Saber is going to return in current Stay Night timeline?
Vote here:
https://strawpoll.com/xVg71WK16yr

>>283415520
Why is the art style so bad?

Where is our boy Takeuchi?

>>283415293
In Fate, Saber using Excalibur for the first time to blow away Rider is an important moment. Shirou, who has been killing himself left and right trying to keep pace with the Servants, can only look on in awe, and the moment is a part of his inner crisis throughout Fate over his relative impotence. This is mirrored in the Heaven's Feel Rider vs Saber fight, only that this time Shirou's motivations have matured to the point he can actually face down Saber directly, one of the two symbols (alongside Archer) of both his failed ideal and impotence. It is only thanks to his help and hardened resolve that he and Rider are able to cut down Saber, in a twist from the events of the Fate route, definitively cutting ties with that arc for good.

>>283415554
What about when Rider kicks Shirou out of the window or the entire forest sequence from Illya capturing Shirou, Archer fighting Berserker, and Shirou projecting Caliburn?

>>283415182
Fate is there to give us best girl and the OTP of Fate.

>>283415554
Sparks Liner High?

>>283414777 (OP)
because shirou acts borderline clinically brain dead thoughout the entire route

>>283414777 (OP)
They didn't get it.

>>283414777 (OP)
the canonical story is HF anon, so once fans knew that, the frits 2 routes fate and ubw were soon rendered irrelevant.

>>283414777 (OP)
Fate is just amwf propaganda.
>FSN has female king Arthur give her virginity to a Japanese high school boy
>Medea instantly forgets her marriage to the Greek hero Jason to get bred by a Japanese kungfu wobbly fist master
>Medusa gets wet thinking about Japanese dick
>Tohsaka ancestor implied to have married and impregnated an Edelfelt Sister from the 3rd Grail War
>Kotomine's white wife literally dies trying to fix him
>FZ has a prestigious German family hire a Japanese mage to impregnate their crown jewel, he also happens to have a devout assistant who happily serves as his stress relief
>FApoc has the queen of ancient kingdom fall in love with a literallywho Japanese
>FE has a Roman empress fall in love with a Japanese boy
>FGO goes hard with this, Japanese teenager/college student/shota is sought after by female knights, goddesses, witches, queens/empresses, etc.

>>283415533
>Why is the art style so bad?
It's not so bad.
>Where is our boy Takeuchi?
Lost on Tsukihime Remake.

I recently finished the VN. Was thinking of trying Zero. I heard they butchered Saber’s character, not sure how much of that is an exaggeration or not. I assume HA is where I should go next, but considering I was dragging my feet to finish HF, I’m thinking I should probably take a break.

>>283414970
>>283415003
>>283415520
>>283415816
>he still doesn't know

this is how FSN ends.

/thread, basically.

>>283416093
HF was trash except for the Illya scenes.

>>283416302
No, it ends with >>283415003

>>283416523
Rin, Shirou, Shinji, Sakura, Ilya, Kirei, Saber, Archer, Gil peaked in HF

UBW was mostly slop

>>283416302
>Oh my Taiga dojo.
Poor wormfag. At least you'll die happy.

>>283416551
Nasu stated long ago that true Endgame of Stay Night world is Dismantling Grail War. Hopefully one day he gives us that story. Or at least have Sanda write it for him.

>>283414877
>>283415022
Sakura only killed Shinji, Kirei, Zouken and True Assassin. The rest was Angra Mainyu. No wonder you liked Fate if the plot of HF flew over your head.

>>283414777 (OP)
IMO Fate route is good but a lot of that is the mystery and setup where you have no idea what's going on, the issue being that Fate as a franchise is huge and most even first time players are already going to know most of the details through other entries in the franchise or simple cultural osmosis. I went in pretty much blind beyond knowing the whole "seibah is king arthur" thing and enjoyed the Fate route quite a lot.

>>283416627
Nasu can’t tell that story without canonizing one of the routes, especially since Rin is involved with the dismantling.

Kinda inept storytelling.

>>283416093
HA has some pretty good high points but a lot of it is kind of meandering slice of life so if you're already feeling a bit burnt out then a break is a good idea.

>>283414777 (OP)
It just doesn't do anything particularly interesting or well. It exists solely so the other two, better, routes can build off of it.

>>283414777 (OP)
I liked Saber as a character, but felt the idea of her falling for Shirou to be a bit forced and only working because it's an eroge and the reader is going into it expecting it to happen. The romance in the other routes is much more believable and I don't even like Sakura that much, personally speaking.
All Saberfags are either lolicons, too weirdly invested in Saber as a character and like these fairytale-esque romances or both.

>Archer is Shirou
wrong

>>283417002
He has already more or less done that, when he declared that no dismantling will happen in HF timeline and instead somebody will simply come to "demolish" already broken grail. Putting HF route basically into "Far Side" kind of territory for SN timeline.
As for legit Dismantling Grail War story, El-Melloi novels are pretty much setting stage for that, so it's very likely that if story will be written, then it use this current timeline which is based mostly on UBW, just with Shirou true love interest being kept ambigeous for time being.

>>283417172
>like these fairytale-esque romances
What's wrong about this?

>>283417256
The dub would have been insane if they got the
Archer guy to do his voice.

>>283417256
Makes more sense than him being Shirou.

>>283414777 (OP)
>Saber's arc & her romance with Shirou were done really well
No they're not

>>283417235
Literally nothing. That'd be the most normal reason for liking her of all the reasons I can think of. I don't think being a Saberfag is really bad thing in the first place; just certain Saberfags are kind of weird (the last of the three especially).

>>283414777 (OP)
i'm sure it's because the majority of people who say that only watched the deen anime, and didn't read the vn. people hate reading. If you asked them about 'the basement' they wouldn't know what you were talking about.

>>283414877
>It's straightforward
This is precisely why people don't like it. It's just bland compared to the other parts, and as others have noted, feels like more of a primer/tutorial.

>>283417235
There is no greater happiness than being a saberfag.

>>283414777 (OP)
Rereading it made me better realize Saber, Archer, and Kotomine all have the same thematic purpose in their respective routes. It really is kinda gay that the infinitely more interesting Illya and Kotomine are pushed towards the side in favor of Sakura in HF.

>>283414877
>UBW is toxic for Shirou
Opinion discarded.

>>283414777 (OP)
They probably don't like all the bullshit in retrospect or the fact that it doesn't really have a point to it aside from simply introducing the world to the reader. But those are the only honest critiques that can be made because Fate is such a fun ride otherwise i actually gave it a pass after rereading it. In fairness all three routes are great.

>>283414877
>UBW is toxic for Shirou
Opinion discarded.

>>283416560
Rin and Shirou's characterization is at its height in UBW. You're braindead.

>>283414777 (OP)
>salter
HF was horribly written dogshit

The two of them were fighting in a tiny basement and standing right next to each other. How the fuck did Lancer a.k.a the fastest servant in that war and one of the strongest in CQC lose to Gilgamesh under those conditions? How would Gil even have the space to spam GoB in there while having to face Lancer shanking him with GB?

Explain this bullshittery

>>283419112
They can only cope with UBW being the most popular route

DEEN wanted UBW

>The idea of creating an animated film based on the Unlimited Blade Works story arc of the Fate/stay night visual novel was first suggested to producer Mitsutoshi Ogura of Geneon Entertainment in 2005. At the time, he was organizing the production of the anime series for the same game.[3] Ogura felt that Unlimited Blade Works and Fate – the latter used as the basis for the plot of the series – were the most interesting story arcs in the visual novel.[3] Director Yūji Yamaguchi from Studio Deen had similar opinions, and noted that Unlimited Blade Works had many elements in common with shonen manga, with a large number of bright scenes

After Zero, Aniplex also wanted UBW.

>当初はFateルートをアニメ化する予定だったが、スタッフ内では、どのルートにするか意見が割れていた(全ルート派「奈須・武内」、UBW派「アニプレックス岩上P」、HF派「キャラクターデザイン須藤、三浦監督」)。
>At first when the Ufotable Fate/stay night anime was planned, there were different ideas of what to do. Nasu and Takeuchi wanted all routes, Iwakami from Aniplex wanted UBW while Miura and Sudo wanted HF.

>Kondo: I kept saying that if we're going to do Fate/stay night's Unlimited Blade Works scenario, we need to draw Shirou cooly, and that's the show's success hinged on Shirou becoming a main character. Miura went so far to say that we had to make it his coming-of-age story.

Daisuke Moriyama wanted UBW manga for years. Nasu kept rejecting it until one day he said

>okay do whatever you want i don't care

>>283419357
I have nothing to cope about. Nigger.

And then Caliburn was never mentioned again

>>283414777 (OP)
Didn't read past Saber route much. Did I miss anything?
I know UBW meme and I don't see how it is better in context by the way. And I saw the ero CGs too.

>>283420242
>I don't see how it is better in context by the way

It has Archer, Lancer and Gil kino

>>283420242
What UBW meme?
You sound rather retarded.
Just finish the VN, the other routes aren't optional content

The only good Fate work were the classics

>2004 Fate/stay night
>2005 Fate/hollow ataraxia
>2006 Fate/Zero
>2007 Prisma Illya
>2008 Fate/strange Fake

Fate/Extra began Nasu's self-referential slop

>>283420753
Nothing past HA in your list is particularly good.
Nothing fate-adjacent that is not written by Nasu is ever good

>>283420722
I am the bone etc
Nope, I like teenage literature only if it's really good or a trainwreck. And Fate didn't seem either. It has great designs going for it but I saw them all already.

>>283420876
>And Fate didn't seem either.
You've read less than 1/3 of it

>>283414777 (OP)
I want more white heroines sex

>>283420876
Fate is the weakest route and the latter half is still pure kino.

>>283415758
No Sparks Liner High is when Shirou solos Saber.

Fate route
>Kirei torturing children
>Ilya is a sadistic loli

HF route
>Kirei was born "evil" so he wants to know if such a existence can be considered evil in the first place and its place in the world and resents normal people
>Ilya is mature and wise Einzbern master

Nice writing Nasu

>Sir, the Nips really like the idea of king Arthur being female
>copy it

>>283421263
No contradiction there, retard. Lol.

>>283416560
>Rin
Not true
>Shirou
Not true
>Shinji
True
>Sakura
True
>Illya
True
>Kirei
True
>Saber
Not true
>Archer
Not true
>Gil
Not true, Gil is barely there

Lancer, as a character, was wasted by being Kirei's disposable servant

>>283421269
Is that a porn series?

>>283421335
Read Hollow Ataraxia

>>283421325
I mean it's a pretty worthless standard either way. Oh wow! The characters are the best in the route that focuses the most on exploring their character? How shocking! Pointing to Sakura, Illya and Kirei is idiotic given that Sakura is barely present in the other two and Kirei and Illya are mostly there to move the plot along with some hints as to their eventual characterization in HF.

So how the fuck does the Einzbern family work anyways.

Apparently there are "real" Einzbern that aren't homunculi but Acht is the only one we ever see and might be the only one left for all we know. And for all intents and purposes Iri and Illya are treated more or less as the heirs to the Einzbern magecraft even though their fate is to get turned into cups

>>283421500
Her tits are great.

>>283421500
From what I understand there used to be a real Einzbern family but they died out centuries ago. Acht is just a golem. I don't know how golems are different from homunculi.

>>283421561
Homunculi tits are very nice

>>283421624
>shirou was going to have a threesome with these two
we were cheated

>>283421737
>we were cheated
barely holding off killing myself from the fact

>Rin emphasizing how hot Rider is in the HF finale
That was funny

>>283416578
>>283416627
>poor sabercuck passing as rhinofag still can't handle the truth
lel

>>283421624
>>283421840
i'm getting really hard imagining leyrsitt emotionless wipping out her tits, wrapping them around shirou's cock, and sucking the tip with a curious expression on her face while sella blushes and tries sitting on his face so he can focus solely on the sexual stimuli

>>283421947
the delusion of you wormfags is beyond any scale

>>283421973
>>283422010
"Wh-What are you doing!?"

"Iww twwh lyh lwwha"

"Silence, Emiya! We were ordered to accomodate you however would please your hormonal teenage self! You live with three women, so this is the best we can do!"

"He— Mmff!"

>FHA is about letting things go
>Fate is still being milked 20 years later

>>283420876
Imagine reading the prologue and thinking you have an informed opinion.

>>283422174
best girl and best boy
goddammit
i wish there were more but you know it'd just be shit

>>283422084
>"He— Mmff!"
ket at the authentic dash you put there. that's real craft.
although I can't make out what liz is supposedly trying to say in her first line

>>283422174
It's not surprising with the milkers you posted.

>>283422174
>Fate route Shirou never lets go of Saber
>UBW Shirou never lets of of his superhero dream
>HF Shirou never lets of of Sakura
lol
lmao

>>283422238
Thank you, I have written several novels. No I will not say what they are.

And Leysritt was trying to say "It tastes like rubber."
Because that's what girls say it does, something about its texture or something. I don't suck dick so I wouldn't know for sure

>>283422298
damn, I see.
keep on cooking

>>283414777 (OP)
It's not hate, but Fate is really just introduction route, other routs have much more interesting stories. They weren't so interesting without all setup in Fate, but story-wise is quite simple and carried by Saber herself because Shirou is a dumbass.

>>283422298
>I don't suck dick so I wouldn't know for sure
Not a real craftsman to not research.

>>283417710
This, felt like Ive read the story before even though its my first playthrough. For the longest time I didnt even know about the other routes, so I thought it was overhyped

>>283414777 (OP)
Normalfags have been told once that it's trash and since the anime doesn't have shiny ufotable post processing and cuhrazy action scenes they won't ever touch it, so they keep repeating the same thing to other normalfags.

>>283422272
she's 14, you sick fuck

would still savagely rape in all three holes like i was angra mainyu on speed

I am actually thinking of rewriting HF with Shirou as the main villain. Instead of surviving the fire with PTSD, he survives with PTSD AND Angra, at the very least his curses corrupting his being to be Angra. Archer is still Archer and notices something is really off about Shirou early. I am hoping to expand on Shirou and Shinji's relationship by showing how a far crasser Emiya because Angra and Shinji would get along perfectly. Caren would take an earlier retirement from the Burial Agency because she's already at the end of her rope by HA, you can't have Avenger without Caren, and I want to humanize Kirei as much as possible for when he finally gets his answer.

Why am I changing so much? You basically have to. HF doesn't function enough as is.

>>283421947
They know it's over anon, HF was always the endgame since the very beginning.

>>283422006
>>283418933
>>283417891
>>283417229
>more tears
COPE

>>283424060
And I'm thinking about writing Shirou as a cuck because that's what he truly wanted to be.
He was burdened with the survivor's guilt, and couldn't let himself be happy.
'A superhero who spends time on himself, his loved ones and leisure is a superhero who lets someone else die in those moments.' He would come to this conclusion.
And this was true for Emiya too, as he was a janitor who could never truly save anyone, and was there to clean up the mess.

>>283424154
Nasu clearly said that Dismantling Grail War is true Endgame of Stay Night world. And that doesn't even happen in HF route. So accept it's "Far Side"-kind of relevance and move on.
You can still hope that Sakura will be somehow relevant in current timeline. Who knows, maybe she will be in future. Shirou true love interest is still unknown at this point.

>>283425566
You say this as if the far side isn't the main thing that matters to people when it comes to Tsukihime.

>>283425566
>And that doesn't even happen in HF route
Why doesn’t this happen? It’s not that I don’t believe you, I was just trying to look into it and couldn’t find specifics. I know the Greater Grail was sealed in HF, but it theoretically could be activated again, right?

>>283425566
Nasu also said he didn't want to write more FSN and was forced by Takeuchi to write Last Episode against his will and CCC was his last work.

>>283425680
I don't think there's actually anything supporting the idea that the dismantling war doesn't happen in HF. What Nasu said about it was more like specifying that there wouldn't be much left of the grail to dismantle, but that doesn't preclude the conflict surrounding it from happening.

>>283416302
>was in the original uncensored FSN
>was never changed in the censored release
HF is still the true end of FSN by the way.

Posted it again reward.

>>283414777 (OP)
I finished reading the VN, yeah Shirou and Saber have a very special relationship it sucks for Shirou having a kinda shitty life but he does eventually reach his waifu
UBW is hype with the boner of my swords and Shirou ends up leading a pretty sweet life in the good end and true end
HF Let's all make Sakura happy for forgetting about her for the last 2 routes at whatever cost

>>283426566
>forgetting about her for the last 2 routes at whatever cost
Is it really "forgetting" if she's literally not relevant in those routes? How would "not forgetting" about her even look like there? It's not like she's never appearing at all, and central characters already have their hands too full with other shit for the VN to dedicate its time to tell whatever about Sakura.
I guess Deen made an attempt to make Sakura "relevant" in the Fate adaptation and it was the most retarded thing ever

>>283426908
You would really have to rewrite the entire setting, since the point of her being sidelined in Fate and UBW is that she wants no part of the grail war and is intentionally hiding her inner turmoil and past from Shirou out of consideration just like he is doing with her.

If Sakura had the option to be an active participant without repercussions that make things even worse, it would undermine Zouken as a villain and HF’s plot. Even the 06 anime stealth-retconned Zouken into already being dead for the plot to be able to utilize her more freely.