Thread 283629406

>be gag manga at heart
>his comedy is mostly meh but his action choreography is godly
>editors strong-arm him into focusing on action as much as possible because that's want the readers want
>throws the towel when his series is still at it's peak of popularity
>gets burnout and never does an action-focused series ever again

I can't think of a bigger anomaly in the entire manga industry. Just think about it, the most famous and influential action manga of all time was made by a guy that hates drawing action and serious plotlines in general. Hell, he even said that the original Bardock OVA is so serious and dark in tone that is something he would never be able to do even if he tried.

>>283629406 (OP)
>>his comedy is mostly meh but his action choreography is godly
His comedy is what made him successful and Dr. Slump was significantly more popular in Japan until the Dragon Ball revival period in the 00s.
>>editors strong-arm him into focusing on action as much as possible because that's want the readers want
No, he diverted towards more action in the second arc because he wanted to see the story get more popular. That was his thing. Editors only forced him to make the story more dramatic in the Piccolo Daimao arc to the Cell arc, not make it more action focused.
>>throws the towel when his series is still at it's peak of popularity
The manga's peak of popularity was Freeza/Cell.
>>gets burnout and never does an action-focused series ever again
No, he just went back to what he liked doing, comedy. That's why the Boo arc was primarily comedy.

>>283629406 (OP)
>the most famous and influential action manga of all time
I didn't know Toriyama made One Piece.

>be op
>be dadskgsdhkjgh
>make retarded thread
4cuck summarized

Dr. Slump is incredibly funny, at least the manga. The anime fucks up the comedic timing a lot.

>>283629507
Neverending slop.

>>283629501
>His comedy is what made him successful and Dr. Slump was significantly more popular in Japan until the Dragon Ball revival period in the 00s.
Citation needed

>>283629501
>he just went back to what he liked doing, comedy.
He never did another major work whether due to lack of interest or popularity and is on the record about resenting the manga industry.

>>283629507
Oda is a fraud and you are a cult of retards.

>the original Bardock OVA is so serious and dark in tone that is something he would never be able to do even if he tried.
So he rewrote it as Superman because he preferred to be a fucking hack and ruin the best addition the anime adaptation made to his subpar story.

>>283630264
It's a great manga, anon. Though arguing it's more influential than Dragon Ball is an insane take.

>>283630100
>Citation needed
The original anime ran for 243 episodes, received several movies (including the only feature length film between both DB and Dr. Slump), and what concluded the Toriyama time slot was not DBGT, but instead a new Dr. Slump TV anime.
It also won several awards, appeared in several Japanese Top Anime polls, including:
>Animage Top 100 (2001)
48. Dr. Slump
>TV Asahi Top 100 (2005, Overall)
34. Dr. Slump
>TV Asahi Top 100 (2005, Web)
29. Dr. Slump
>Japan's Favourite TV Anime (2006, Celebrities)
25. Dr. Slump

There's other things, like Mario's run being taken from Arale, the poop emoji being taken from Dr. Slump, or Toriyama being directly responsible with Dr. Slump for manga that are focused more on characters than storylines. The series also inspired the prolific SD artstyle, among many other things. It is perhaps among the most significant manga to ever exist.

As for the anime, here's something to consider
>Dragon Ball
Peak Ratings: 29.5% (Episode 47)
Average Ratings: 21.9%
>Dragon Ball Z
Peak Ratings: 27.5% (Episode 218)
Average Ratings: 20.5%
>Dragon Ball GT
Peak Ratings: 19.7% (Episode 2)
Average Ratings: 14.6%

>Dr. Slump & Arale-chan
Peak Ratings: 36.9% (Episode 34), also known as the third highest viewership rating in anime history.
Average Ratings: 22.7%
The reboot also managed to do about par with DBGT, though while DB was riding Dr. Slump's coattails in ratings at the start, Dr. Slump was left with the baggage of DB's overall decline and loss of interest by that point, with the reboot having a 20.3% peak and a 13.3% average (though it ran longer than DBGT had).

>>283629406 (OP)
He had nowhere to go. He already introduced planet-busting characters and instant teleportation. Buu was just a rehash of Cell and his art fell off a cliff, probably because he was sick and tired. Dragon Ball is also just a dumb manga, it has no real power system, the characters just zip around shooting lasers, it's completely linear and he fucking speedran the power levels (Goku went to the moon when in like the 3rd chapter). By the time Goku was an adult, all sense of scenery and phenomena went out the window and every scene took place in some random empty landscape, the series has no worldbuilding because it has no world. He could have kept the series going by killing off Goku and making Gohan the MC but everyone yelled at him for it. He was never in love with action-fantasy and there's just not much you can do with a story like this after so many chapters. The people inspired by Dragon Ball were able to look at all these problems and fix them for their own series, but the reality is Dragon Ball will always be the most popular BECAUSE of those problems. The average person is a retard but a sale's a sale so success will always be measured by the number of retards you can attract with your light.

>>283630898
Grrr Dragon Ball is for Boomers we need blue hair idiots punching each other with power level number going up!

>>283630898
>t. gohantard

>>283629406 (OP)
It must have been odd being the pioneer of an era where you're only liked for one work for the rest of your career. All of Toriyama's inspirations would do dozens of manga throughout their career, Tezuka did hundreds.

Dr. Slump is better than Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball went to shit when Toriyama went out of his element

>>283629507
>influential
>action
Two things that have nothing to do with OP

>>283629406 (OP)
A good artist knows how to create what the audience wants but it's a shame when you hate them. lol.

>>283634046
>All of Toriyama's inspirations would do dozens of manga throughout their career, Tezuka did hundreds.
And none of them have the same impact or are known and remembered throughout the world by hundreds of millions like Dragon Ball.

This idea that people have that someone who is extremely successful at one thing should be similarly successful in everything else he does like it's easy makes no sense.
He captured lightning in a bottle. Dragon Ball is legendary across multiple generations and changed the anime & manga industry forever while also massively impacting works outside of anime and manga.
I remember reading somewhere that Freeza was partly inspired by how Toriyama imagined monsters looked like as a kid. This piece of his imagination from so long ago is now crystalised in the minds of hundreds of millions across the world. He is dead but his thoughts and imagination will go on for a very long time and he is going to be remembered long past we are all dead. He put his dent in the universe.

99% of all men can never hope of leaving a legacy like this.

>>283634666
I think you're leaving out a lot of context. the japanese government was literally subsidizing the international spread of anime and manga in the 80s. manga publishers and anime production companies of the previous generation didn't have the money printer backing them. works had to be popular enough to stand on their own or fit into international trends to be sought out and licensed internationally. It's an utterly absurd to compare their audience sizes and reach as if it was entirely up to individual artistic skill.

No one can get away with making the flawed works that he has made nowadays thanks to the proto-OCD sperginess of the internet not allowing new things to be epic

>>283629406 (OP)
You're a faggot OP
>>283630516
No it isn't, it's mediocre at best now

>>283629406 (OP)
His comedy in Dr Slump was good, in Dragon Ball it's pretty meh, but by that point he was tired of just doing comedy as so it's understandable why.

DBZ Everything up to namek is iconic and no one can say otherwise

>>283630100
it had like 20 million circulation in 9 volumes

Thats why its always so funny to say to a DBZ fan "it was always a comedy" and watch them flip the fuck out.

Dr Slump started turning into a shitty action manga at the end, but no one talks about it because no one actually read it

>>283630124
He worked on video games including one of the most popular franchises in japan.

>>283629406 (OP)
> by a guy that hates drawing action
DB had action at all because he liked it. That's just anti-Z edginess.

>>283634107
Yes anon, you're soo cool.

>>283629406 (OP)

The Dragonball world is utopia.

Everyone is accepting of other races/species, there is highly advanced technology alongside wild
nature, and there is no class war between poor and rich.

>>283636132
He contributed artwork, even during DB's run. Toriyama completely fell off the face of the Earth after a handful of one-shots and short stories.

By making the art for Dragon Quest which helped popularize it, you could arguably say Toriyama is indirectly responsible for all the isekai we see today. It's all his fault. And Yuji Horii's

>>283636256
Once the Red Ribbon Army is taken care of, at least.

>>283636485
I don't think so. If Dragon Quest never existed the trend would still exist but it would be copying the next most entrenched fantasy game series.

>>283629406 (OP)
At least blue dragon was good.

>>283636808
I want to play the sequels but they're too much of a downgrade from a fully modern 3D game.

>>283629406 (OP)
>his comedy is mostly meh
I dunno about that. Dr. Slump was massive in Japan and that is mostly comedy. For me the manga was great and much funnier than the anime due to the comedic timing. I also found the beginning of the Buu saga genuinely more funny than the huge majority of the comedy manga i have read.

Was Toriyama on the spectrum?

>>283637008
Yes.

>>283634666
It's absolutely insane how much staying power Dragon Ball has. My first interaction with DragonBall was the video games and they're still getting them for 4 decades straight. Toriyama's impact on anime and manga is absolutely insane. It's very beautiful his works will inspire generations to come

>>283637008
>Toriyama's editor was fucking Mr. T
Holy shit

>>283637220

the Z team

>>283636576

Do you think that Red Ribbon is a necessary evil?

>>283629406 (OP)
Sometimes you're extremely good at doing something you don't like

>>283629406 (OP)
What were Toriyama's inspirations? Where did he learn to draw?

>>283637979
Kung Fu movies (especially Bruce Lee), Star Wars, and probably Peanuts

No one will give a shit when Oda dies

>>283637979
he clearly had heavy interest in mechanical and caricature drawing. he used his skills to throw his own spin on average manga and comic art.

>>283637979
I read this forever ago but I think he said that his main artistic inspiration was 101 Dalmatians and he worked as a drafter for a little while before drawing manga

>>283637058
>>283637008
>>283630264
I love how Oden's face is inspired by Toriyama's reaction to Oda and Kishimoto dropping their spaghetti around him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJX29H6dQFs

>>283637979

Guy loved Disney. To wit: Bibidi, Babidi, and Boo.

>>283638900
He only did that because Nintento would have sued if he used Abra, Kadabra and Alakazam.

>>283639910
You mean, he did it to be nice to Nintendo otherwise he would have to sue them, right?

>>283629406 (OP)
Vax status?

>>283639910

Three years before they existed?

>>283629406 (OP)
He sure knew how to write characters.

Toriyama isn't funny and if it wasn't for Torishima having to tard wrangle him into something worth a shit then Dragon Ball would've ended long before we ever got to the Z portion.

>>283629406 (OP)
>the most famous and influential action manga of all time was made by a guy that hates drawing action and serious plotlines in general.
Pic unrelated, obviously.

>>283639910
Ignoring the fact that Pokemon came out in Japan 1 year after Dragon Ball ended & 3 years in the West, why would NOJ sue him over English Pokemon names?

>>283629406 (OP)
>but his action choreography is godly
Is it though

Akira Toriyama was just that guy. He's like if some B-tier stand up comic got chosen to be the next JRR Tolkien and actually delivered.

>>283629406 (OP)
>his comedy is mostly meh b
Stopped reading right here. Toriyama was already a millionare off of Slump before Dragon Ball was a thought in his head.

>Casually craps out amazing compositions in a matter of days after procrastinating for most of his deadlines
>Never relies on screen tones, just black and whites and hatching
>Can just draw elaborate machinery on a whim without reference.

He's better at comedy than action.
Pafu-pafu will never not be funny.

>>283641262
>Toriyama isn't funny

>>283642653

Thats called "supernaturally lucky".

How hard was it for Toriyama to not draw this coming out of Piccolo's ass instead?

>>283642996
Perverted humor like this isn't funny unless you're 15 or younger.

>>283646377
Imagine being this far up your own ass here of all places.

>>283629501
>His comedy is what made him successful and Dr. Slump was significantly more popular in Japan until the Dragon Ball revival period in the 00s.
I agree but you literally pulled that last part out of your ass. Dragon Ball was a national phenomena in Japan before the West. 7 million weekly jump magazine were being sold in the Z portion of Dragon Ball. Yeah yeah... Slam Dunk and other manga helped, too. But still, Dragon Ball was still his biggest hit.

>>283646377
>t. super-mature 16 year old

>>283636283
He exhausted himself. He drew weekly without stopping for 15 years while doing a gazillion other side works for anime, videogames, magazines, etc. Dragon Ball almost killed him, that's why he didn't want another serialazation and just enjoyed his retirement doing some menial works on the side. You are also undermining how much of Dragon Quest's success is thanks to Toriyama.

>>283630124
Every other shonen artist was copying Toriyama's formula. If he wanted to serialize another manga it would have been as popular as anything published now or then. He retired and Jump almost died.

>>283646521
>>283646584
That is my point. Toriyama didn't return to comedy or really anything, he just drew a bit at the request of others and happily faded into the background.
>If he wanted to serialize another manga it would have been as popular
I'm saying the manga he did do subsequently didn't make much of a splash.

>>283646650
Serialize as in weekly draw another long story for the magazine that keeps readers invested for years. Nobody gets excited about a One-shot or stories that last 6 to 10 chapters.

>>283646703
I know. I'm not sure what your point is since you're just reiterating along the same lines as the things I've said.

>>283630898
Trvth Nvke. But you are probably white, so I don't like you.

>>283637008
This is absolutely based and the no. 1 reason modern manga is so shit in comparison. They dwell too much on melodrama and shit that only women care about. If you write exciting, fast-paced stories, all the drama can be read between the lines.

A single panel about Vegeta becoming furious seeing Trunks killed tells you so much more than an entire chapter where he would be crying and monologuing about how much he loved his son and how he didn't have enough time to connect and all that sappy shit. And yet that's what a modern mangaka would write.

He was so fuccen good at designing vehicles and his most famous work hardly had any.
He was king at designing characters of all sizes and shapes but his most famous work is best known for muscular dudes of average height.
At least his monster designs shone in Dragon Quest.

>>283629406 (OP)
>when his series is still at it's peak of popularity
Buu was garbage and Shitper shows what would've happened had it continued

>>283646764
>I'm saying the manga he did do subsequently didn't make much of a splash.
That isn't a fair assesment because he only did short stories after Dragon Ball. That's what I'm saying. He didn't get axed either, he just wanted to leisurely do little stories without working too hard. Tell me one one-shot manga that's discussed daily on /a/? Of course they didn't make a splash...

>>283629406 (OP)
He made his money, he didn't have to draw ever again.

>>283630850
>There's other things, like Mario's run being taken from Arale, the poop emoji being taken from Dr. Slump, or Toriyama being directly responsible with Dr. Slump for manga that are focused more on characters than storylines. The series also inspired the prolific SD artstyle, among many other things. It is perhaps among the most significant manga to ever exist.
>As for the anime, here's something to consider
>>Dragon Ball
>Peak Ratings: 29.5% (Episode 47)
>Average Ratings: 21.9%
>>Dragon Ball Z
>Peak Ratings: 27.5% (Episode 218)
>Average Ratings: 20.5%
>>Dragon Ball GT
>Peak Ratings: 19.7% (Episode 2)
>Average Ratings: 14.6%
>>Dr. Slump & Arale-chan
>Peak Ratings: 36.9% (Episode 34), also known as the third highest viewership rating in anime history.
>Average Ratings: 22.7%
interesting

>>283634046
>where you're only liked for one work for the rest of your career
That is a very midwit revisionist cope

>>283648349
Apparently the concept of a magnum opus eludes these people and they think if your other works weren't equally successful it's because they failed, despite being successful

>>283629406 (OP)
>be gag manga at heart
Why do people keep saying this? Only the first 2-3 arcs were centered around comedy, but DB clearly turned into an action story with the King Piccolo arc and stayed that way until the end. Comedy became completely secondary.

>>283646950
For all of Toriyama's flaw he was a master of show don't tell.
Shit happens and that's it. He never insulted people's intelligence by telling them how they were supposed to "feel" when a scene or event happened and he specially so never dragged out things and neither did he try to make every big "moment" something grandiose".
Just to use your Vegeta example, a lesser mangaka in a modern shounen manga would have made Trunks getting sniped by Cell into a double-spread and then have the following page be reaction piece of everyone reacting to Trunks' getting sniped and then ANOTHER double spread of Vegeta in the forefront reacting while the background is flashback panels of Vegeta and Trunks in the time chamber of all the moments Trunks tried to bond with Vegeta but Vegeta ignored him and then spend the entire rest of the chapter with Vegeta getting a rage power-up that actually manages to deal damage to Cell completely missing the point yet again.

>>283644290
>coming out of Piccolo's ass instead
But isn't the "mouth" actually a Nemekian's anus?

>>283646377
That's the target audience for shonen manga, he did a good job

>>283648887
Because of Dr. Slump and because apparently his first work which he sent to the magazine in order to get hired in the first place was also a comedy, I think

>>283642996
How could Krillin even try to smell it when he canonically has no nose and him being unable to smell things is a plot point.

>>283650573
>>283642996

>>283648887
Because every other thing he did besides the last two thirds of Dragon Ball are comedy you dumb Toonami secondary.

>>283648349
Works like dragon quest and blue are hardly just his work. When I brought up manga, I meant full manga. It was more about perspective.
>>283648848
Letting audiences define what an artist's magnum opus is fucking stupid. Toriyama's own views and attitudes shit all over that.
>"This may be my final anime, I'm a little worried (about it). There's incredible pressure, but at the same time, there's a sense of accomplishment -- that it's worth doing. Blue Dragon will be a masterpiece, not simply because I'm working hard on it, but because the staff is expecting nothing less."

I don't even necessarily agree but I'm not gonna pretend the masses opinions override his mostly casual attiudes to his own work.

>>283646463
>Dragon Ball was a national phenomena in Japan before the West.
It was, but so was Dr. Slump, and Dragon Ball, as you acknowledge, was not the big seller for those magazines- in fact, Slam Dunk was the bigger push for that, but also, the period of that happening strayed close to DB's own decline period.

>>283650967
>perspective
No, you are just a midwit.

>>283650967
The wider audience absolutely does define what is the artist's magnum opus. The artist can disagree if he wants, but it is ultimately in vain. Everyone thinks of Sherlock Holmes when they think of Arthur Conan Doyle no matter how much he might have protested and thought of his historical novels his greatest works and Sherlock something he did for a quick buck.

You could tell he was getting sick of gag manga by the end of Dr Slump, there were no more one-off chapters just a bunch of storylines. At some points it was almost like a half-assed version of the Red Ribbon Army arc.

>DB thread
>Unaffected by skitzos.
W-what kind of a power is this...?!

>>283651585
>W-what kind of a power is this...?!
Since Toriyama's death, we have occasionally had better quality discussion of his life and legacy...

>>283650969
>Dragon Ball, as you acknowledge, was not the big seller for those magazines
https://www.jajanken.net/en/history
It arguably was, but maybe not at the very end of its serialization. Jump also had Ruroni Kenshin, Yu Yu Hakusho, the Dragon Quest manga. Almost all ended by 1997 and contributed to the decline.
I'm not denying Dr Slump was insanely popular, I think the TV series had record breaking rating numbers, but the Dragon Ball manga simply had more potential to evolve into a franchise. It had a gazillion videogames and more merchandise. Dragon Ball wasn't dead until the 00s. And I don't see how It would be less popular. Sales say otherwise. It broke through the world wide market, sure. New generation of games helped with that. Dr Slump was even revived in the mid 90s with a new manga and anime but it still didn't manage catch up and not much came from it.

>>283651585
They mostly post on /v/, /vg/, and /ghost/ now.
Ignore retards like this though >>283651944 this thread is still shit and filled to the brim with idiots.

>>283647750
>oh dragon make me white!

>>283652023
>but the Dragon Ball manga simply had more potential to evolve into a franchise. It had a gazillion videogames and more merchandise. Dragon Ball wasn't dead until the 00s. And I don't see how It would be less popular.
That's why I referenced the revival period as when DB surpassed Slump, and that was the 00s.
The 00s are codified by 3-5 DB games releasing a year, the kanzenbans, Neko Majin, several new OVAs, and Dragon Ball Kai, all of which Toei referred to as the 'revival period', and all of this was while Dr. Slump was a finished IP. The 1997 anime did good but was burdened by coming off of DBGT, and its only real release in the 00s was a short one shot and a 20 minute short film, both about "Abale-chan".

So naturally, DB would become more popular in Japan as well. While it was fading from the view of children, Dragon Ball Kai was airing in Toei's major morning slot alongside One Piece.

>>283652072
Toriyama did all the redesigns for the 90s Dr Slump and wrote many of the episodes, I know lots of people dislike the redesign but I liked many of them

>>283629507
>

>>283652084
I was talking about the literal hundres of games Dragon Ball had before it's "revival" (that were not even localized in the west). Which wasn't because it was dead. They just had a period of Dragon Ball fatigue, and since the manga and anime ended, demand wasn't as high. PS2 allowed for better hardware to work with the Dragon Ball videogame IP and appeal to the western audience who didn't get their own releases back then. The world wide appeal of DB helped sell these games, nothing to do with Japan, where the series was already insanely popular and had the biggest ever sells in the manga market. I really think this is weird revisionism. Dragon Ball is always brought back in differents forms of media because it's a money cow. Dragon Ball surpised Slump before Z in everything except TV ratings and that's because more households would watch kiddy shows or family oriented anime like Chibi Maruko-Chan, Doraemon, etc.

>>283652372
>surpised
Surpassed

>>283651585
This is a Toriyama thread. We're talking about Dr. Slump, Blue Dragon, Dragon Quest etc

>>283652372
The games Dragon Ball had weren't really that big a deal, and a lot of them were just clones of each other.
The Dragon Ball Z era of card RPGs were big, as were the Butoden titles, but those were all transparently copies and not really that expensive to make, and weren't huge successes aside from Butoden.

And Dragon Ball's success in volume sales is not something you can compare with Slump, because Slump is an episodic comedy series. It has some continuity, but not enough for people to seek it out beyond the magazine and weekly anime.

>>283652154
>>283652072
Sex
Rape

>>283652450
That's fair.

I think a lot of that has to do with how the vidya market was back then, too. Before the Street Fighter 2 histeria there was not much you could do with a story like DB to meet the demand, besides rpgs. Then there was an overflow of fighters that tried to imitate the model but failed. Honestly I don't see why they could pay Enix or Capcom to produce some quality games back on the heyday

>>283637008
Have you seen his mechanical design? Dude was a sperglord 100%

>>283652072
>>283652154

>>283647471
>fair assessment
Anon, there's no judgement attached to that statement. It's just the fact of what happened.

>>283629406 (OP)
>his comedy is mostly meh
Bulma threatening Vegeta to never bath with him again was hilarious. His comedy is great.

>>283646950
In Toriyama's case, DB would've been shit if he was left to his own devices regarding this. Piccolo's tearful death in the Saiyan arc came from an editor alongside countless other examples.
>A single panel about Vegeta becoming furious seeing Trunks killed
He may not have even included that without editor meddling.

>>283652310
add Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball Super, Naruto Shippuden, and Boruto to the search terms.

>>283652154
upgraded
>Arale
>Drampire
>Akane

downgraded
>Suppaman
>Tsururin
>Senbei
>Tarou

>>283653202
Don't you mean his tearful phasing into another dimension?

>>283629406 (OP)
Toriyama's peak was making designs for Dragon Quest, his style is amazing for lighthearted fantasy. Space shonen slop is lame.

>>283643115
>supernaturally lucky
It wasn't luck. He liked Kung fu movies and learned good panel composition from them. He liked vehicles and model cars, so he naturally learned to draw them from memory.

>>283629501
>That's why the Boo arc was primarily comedy
To be fair Boo arc is the arc with the worst art but people only remember the animation of that anime arc

>>283629507
Astroboy, kinnikuman and Ring ni Kakero was more influential than OP

>>283646950
>1 reason modern manga is so shit in comparison
>They dwell too much on melodrama and shit that only women care about
The fucking bible of battle shonen is one that a lot of focus is about the rival and mc's sister romance

>>283629406 (OP)
Dragon Ball is great. His gags are poop jokes.

>>283652023
>Dragon Ball wasn't dead until the 00s
Dragon Ball - without new anime - was still extremely popular at that time.
Shit was Japan's starwars : not needing new content to just sell everything from toys to videogames games and clothes.

>>283629406 (OP)
I mean... yeah.
There is a very high chance that your favorite mangaka's favorite mangaka is Toriyama.

>Draw action where you can actually tell what's happening
>Timeskip through everything that isn't interesting
It sounds like it would be easy but Toriyama is the only person who really pulled it off.

>>283646957
Lmao.
Freeza and a Elder God Tier of design.
And that's not counting on the non canon movies' boss he drew for Z.

>>283658914
Not working nearly as well for Sakamoto Days

>>283658194
>Shit was Japan's starwars : not needing new content to just sell everything from toys to videogames games and clothes.
Nah, DB was mostly dead following GT.
The last movie had been made solely for the tenth anniversary only 4 episodes into GT's run, and as for games, after the DBZ anime ended in 1996, the only game to release was DBGT Final Bout in 1997. The next game after that would be the North American exclusive Legacy of Goku in 2002, followed by the 'nostalgia' title (a la PSX Hokuto no Ken) "Dragon Ball Z" for the PS2 (later titled 'Budokai' in the west) in 2003.

>>283646950
The thing is that it literally doesn't fucking exist in Dragon Ball, there's nothing between the lines

>>283651307
Nah, acting like video games are only an example of his work and storytelling is ridiculous.
>>283651545
The mass commercialization of all media distorts such a thing. The public can easily promote products that the creators diverge with them on. So, no I don't allow the public to decide what an artist's greatest work is in the modern era.

>>283638409
The quote from that interview was this.
>I myself think it’s Walt Disney and Osamu Tezuka. Back when I was a kid, there was an art studio called “Zugaya-san“; the neighborhood’s kids would get together there and draw pictures and be noisy. One day, I remember I drew a picture of One Hundred and One Dalmatians, and got a good prize; I was ecstatic about that, so perhaps the current me was in there. (laughs)

>>283648887
Because he's made a hell of a lot more manga than Dragon Ball and they're pretty much all comedy. Both the ones he made before and after Dragon Ball became all fighting. Go read Dr. Slump and his short stories.

>>283661746
>The public can easily promote products that the creators diverge with them on.
And you feel that this wasn't the case with Doyle and Sherlock because...?
Or are you actually arguing that Doyle's magnum opus is Lost World or one of his other non-Sherlock works?

>>283634666
>This piece of his imagination from so long ago is now crystalised in the minds of hundreds of millions across the world. He is dead but his thoughts and imagination will go on for a very long time and he is going to be remembered long past we are all dead. He put his dent in the universe.
T_T

>>283635265
Dragon Ball didn't get popular internationally until the late 90s into the 2000s.
>inb4 some spic acts like Mexico and France are anywhere near the combined worth of America/Canada/England/Australia

>>283648349
Dragon Quest is hardly appreciated for Toriyama's contributions to the work. The only people who appreciate it in that manner tend to be the type of people who don't even play the games and instead just look at the box art.

>>283662375
I wouldn't know because I haven't read enough of those books to make a judgment, I just don't think the value of a work should be purely determined through dollar signs.

>>283662632
Not through dollar signs, but public recognition and influence. Dragon Ball is one of the most influential comic book series to ever exist, it completely dwarfs any of Toriyama's other work. Only other contender is the Dragon Quest designs, but even though Dragon Quest too has been massively influential to the point of being a cornerstone of an entire genre, you wouldn't attribute that merely to Toriyama's designs.

>>283660530
>Nah, DB was mostly dead following GT.
Man, DB was still extremely popular everywhere and had shit-tons of reruns.
Of course, at some point Naruto became more popular, but DB was never even close to being "dead" after GT.

>>283662522
>latam and france don't count because... t-they just don't, ok?

>>283662395
Re-reading DB with the storytime on /a/ was as beautiful as it was sad.
And an important lesson was learned : modern mangaka could never.

>>283662522
We get it, you are a mutt / a canadian that is upset because you were among the last people on Earth to watch / read DB.

>people talking about Dragon Quest and Blue Dragon
>Control+F "Chrono Trigger"
>0 results
sad

>>283663428
I miss peak Toriyama's style

>>283663428
still trying to figure out what the design intentions of lavos were.

>>283663428
>>283663452
>peak Toriyama
>posts Nakatsuru

>>283664376
Google told me it was Toriyama. That's good enough for me, having searched for a few seconds.

>>283663295

>the stars look beautiful tonight

>>283629406 (OP)
>the most famous and influential action manga of all time was made by a guy that hates drawing action and serious plotlines in general
That's what we call and why we call him a genius

>>283662791
Influence is an interesting metric, but not conclusive, it's also sort of functions as an extension of profit. Astro Boy and My Son Goku were the works of Tezuka that influenced Toriyama the most. But Tezuka had tons of notable manga afterwards. And further on the topic of influence. Toriyama was clearly more influenced by the 60s and 70s action manga like Astro Boy, cyborg 009, devilman and mazinger, king fu movies, Godzilla and Ultraman, among other things. Works where the action is quick, dynamic, and comical. But Toriyama's audience much preferred when he started incorporating the long dramatic standoff battles of works like hokuto no ken or saint seiya instead. So influence cuts in many ways of what artists vs audience value.

>>283665443
>20th Century Boys
I hope that quote was from early in its serialization.

>>283662522
Are you kidding? France has always been the leading country for manga and anime (outside Japan) since the 1980s, and we can thank Club Dorothée for that. I mean, the Japan Expo is held in Paris, France, and it's the largest convention dedicated to manga/anime culture outside of Japan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Expo

>>283665652
Is she single?

>>283667048
Anon.. She's 72, now..
For frenchfags, she was mostly a Second Mother that you watched on TV. You have no idea how big Dorothée was back in the days, it was completely insane.

>>283668323
>You have no idea how big Dorothée was back in the days, it was completely insane.
If I'm not wrong, it wasn't uncommon for the Club Dorothée to sometimes out-view the most popular news broadcasts combined.

>>283629507
>one piece
Things nobody watched

>>283665652
As a francophone, I learned english because all the anime I wanted to watch weren't translated.
TV companies at the time bought the licenses for Japanese anime because they were cheaper. As for France's weeb epidemic I have no clue.

>>283630361
Toriyama didn't hate Z. He hated the villain of the week nature and editors demanding Goku fight a stronger opponent. Goku went from a country bumpkin to wanting to fight the strongest guy. Bardock to him is just the Goku editors wanted: a complex anti-hero who can tell complex stories.

>>283665652
cont.
A 90s kid would've been reading Spirou, Pif Gadget etc.

>>283630850
>>283648330
It can be hard for Westerners to accept this, because Dr.Slump is invisible in the West, and it's seen as Toriyama's other babyish series which he did before he found real success, but this narrative just isn't true with consideration of Japan. Dr. Slump was wildly successful.

>>283646950
I love Hokuto no Ken, but is this Hokuto no Ken's fault?

>>283629501
fpbp

>>283669448
hokuto no ken was moralist and dramatic, but it didn't really go full speech and crying to itself mode over most of the drama. certainly not from the protagonist. it did on occasion and throw backstories onto villains and rivals before they died though.

>>283662571
>Dragon Quest is hardly appreciated for Toriyama's contributions to the work.
braindead take anon

>>283670940
Japanese players are numberbrained and enjoy the fantasy in itself. Tori's art is like 1/3 of it.

>muh editors
where is the akira toriyama 2 or 3 or 4?

>>283629406 (OP)
>his comedy is mostly meh but his action choreography is godly

Bejita is the greatest comic relief character ever written

>>283658194
>Shit was Japan's starwars
That would be neon genesis evangelion

>>283629406 (OP)
>the original Bardock OVA is so serious and dark in tone that is something he would never be able to do even if he tried.
Saiyan Saga to Cell Saga felt just as dark.

>>283655167
Wish he had the talent to pick a competent mangaka as his successor.

>>283674574
That would be Gundam.

>>283629507
Dragon Ball influenced One Piece to the point GOONfy is voiced by CUKlin.
>>283630264
Oda is a masochist who strives to live up to Toriyama's legacy. Only reason he even made Dragon Ball is so his buddies working on Dr. Slump still had work. He was a millionaire before Dragon Ball even started.

>>283630100
How to spot a tourist.

>>283629507
Correct he didn't, he made Dragon Ball the most influential action series of all time.
One Piece isn't even the second or third most influential action shonen, that's Bleach followed by Naruto.
Oda can't draw for shit when it comes to action scenes, no battle shonen author would be influenced or inspired by that.

>>283629406 (OP)
He was simply someone who was right place, right time.
DBZ aired when anime was starting out overseas and people always remember their firsts most fondly.

>>283629507
Oda is the biggest dragonball fanboy, he would crucify you for that comment

>>283652310
putting aside for the moment that using search results for statistics is foolish
anon, do you see where it says "from 2004 onward"?
dragon ball started in 1984
search engines didn't fucking exist, and the internet as a whole was niche for very long
it only started to truly converge with real life sometime after 2010

>>283664376
The true successor. Toriyama himself said he couldn't distinguish Nakatsuru's drawings from his own
But, those illustrations are from Toriyama. The promotional illustrations made by Nakatsuru for DQ/CT looked more like anime because of the cell shading etc.

>>283664419
It is don't worry.