I'm starting to consider a man being in therapy a HUGE red flag in dating now and I'm wondering if any other women are noticing this?

It seemed for a while, like say the last 5 years or so there has been this huge push to get more men to see therapists and work on themselves and everyone seemed to think this was a positive. But it seems actually this has been not a good thing, from my own personal experience I'm been on dates and a few relationships with men in therapy, and they are using it like they have unlocked a new superpower. I've had therapy-speak weaponized and used against me, and it more and more seems like this is just teaching them to be more manipulative, more cunning and sly. They now have an array of various tactics at their disposal unknown to them previously, and they are using it to trick us and use suggestion and coercion.

So back to my original point, I'm currently dating this new guy, it's been going well on our last date Saturday night he tole me he was in therapy to help repair some trauma and to work on his self. I really thought we had a good thing going up until then, and that is making me take a hard look at all of our previous dates and interactions and looking for clues on him using this against me. I hate feeling like this, like I have to be on the defensive because guys are so well versed now in additional manipulative skills, but what else can I do?

>>33228765 (OP)
If not a troll...

If someone does that they're not worth your time. Women do this too. A lot. These are people who lack self awareness.
They suck with therapy, they would have sucked without therapy, because this is what people with zero self awareness are like.
If anything they're just showing you sooner and more clear what a huge fucking pain in your ass they're gonna be.

>>33228765 (OP)
You probably think men being manipulative means actually setting boundaries and saying what they want instead of being pushed around and emotionally abused by you. Now they know that you're doing that and you dont like it

>>33228786
Are you retarded? No where in the post is there any evidence the guy OP is dating has done anything wrong except try to work on himself lol

>>33228765 (OP)
Someone doesn't get a degree in psychology via osmosis talking about their feelings with someone with one. You view the world as hostile and mean when it's neutral.

>>33228765 (OP)
gonna need examples of sly and cunning manipulation

>>33228765 (OP)
can we get an actual example of this "sly and cunning manipulation"? dumb whore

>>33228794
No. Let's unpack "boundaries" since you mentioned that.

I'm talking about things like using "boundaries" to set unrealistic standards that are impossible for the other person to meet. Setting "boundaries" to shutdown feedback and accountability for actions. "Boundaries" to avoid emotional intimacy and important conversations. "Boundaries" to guilt-trip or gaslight me into feeling completely responsible if it is crossed. Purposely creating "boundaries" that are vague and difficult to understand and respect. These are all traps being set in attempts to manipulate behavior.

>>33228799
I wasn't referring to that. Op is asking in general about people weaponizing therapy. This guy is mentioned, but it isn't the central question.
And im responding, no, therapy isn't ruining men, its just causing people who are already lacking in self awareness to continue to suck in a different way.

Something I've always wondered. I'm not an American. Whenever I read of relationships etc., Americans always say that they're in therapy or the first advice is to get therapy. Do all Americans really talk to a therapist? Is that an actual thing there? Despite all the burger therapy attendance I've yet to hear a single story that it actually helped anyone.

>>33228920
There's a trend now especially among women everyone has to go to therapy and there's literally no way you can be a good person if you dont.
Its retarded.
Im not against therapy, but peoples understanding of mental health is fucking terrible and its trending this way.

And I studied clinical psychology. I know a thing or two about therapy and mental health.

>>33228920
>>33228933
Also
>I've never heard a case of it working
People who get better dont talk about it. Youre gonna hear a lot more about it ad nauseum from people who definitely aren't getting better.

Yeah, I took my ex to couples therapy as a hail mary and the therapist explained that what he was doing to me was DARVO. So he'd be more aware of his bad behavior and avoid it. Instead he studied it and started using it more tactically and accusing me of doing it every time I called it out. This made him completely intolerable to live with. The next girl dumped him for the same reason.

therapoid excusebabble reason slop is no match for the classic and undefeated "what have you done for me lately?"

this defeats real therapoid indoctrination AS WELL AS chatgpt paratherapoid indoctrination

conversely, if that spins you on your heels you are actually the shitter

>>33228899
This is Textbook Women 101 Behavior. It sounds as if now you are mad that men are no longer fighting with one hand tied behind their backs any longer.

>>33228765 (OP)
You are a horrible person and I hope you never find happiness.

>>33228765 (OP)
High tier troll posting, OP. Keep going, this is raising the quality of the bait on this board.

>>33229197
>You are a horrible person and I hope you never find happiness.
How? Why? What exactly have I done that makes me a horrible person? You don't even know me.

>>33228765 (OP)
get double therapy to be one step ahead

>>33229252
>You don't even know me.
You don't see the irony of this statement when you're making sweeping (and massively retarded) generalizations about men who are in therapy?

>>33229315
Where are the generalizations? She made an observation based on her personal experiences and asked if anyone else had similar experiences.

>>33228765 (OP)
Just say what you really mean – you don't like it when men talk about their feelings. That's what you mean by:
>I've had therapy-speak weaponized and used against me, and it more and more seems like this is just teaching them to be more manipulative, more cunning and sly.

You'd rather the men just put up & shut up and not express any boundaries or concerns or needs they have that might inconvenience (you).

>I'm currently dating this new guy, it's been going well on our last date Saturday night he tole me he was in therapy to help repair some trauma and to work on his self.

Good for him. Childhood trauma is a nightmare to self-repair, and for us men, no-one comes to save us, no one soothes us or kills our inner demons for us, we have to do that shit ourselves. I'm happy that guy has the balls to face his own shadow. It means he is well on his way to becoming a high-value man.

Meanwhile you judge him and snub him for it. For God knows what reason, maybe it's because you expected to be a princess and the man should always cater to your needs 24/7 like a step-in for your doting father. Tough shit. You only get 1 dad, not 2.

I suggest you drop your shit attitude. You're acting like the type of woman who would rather see her man die on his horse than fall off of it. In other words, you expect a man to be made of stone and not ever have any cracks or else you are offended. You're the nightmare wife material; only taking and never giving.

>>33228765 (OP)
Therapy would be a red flag because it indicates gullibility.

Everyone, add this to your filters, if you haven't already: /[—–]/
This filters bots.

>"needs" awakened by therapy

>>33228765 (OP)
sounds like we need to get more men into therapy

>>33228765 (OP)
>here has been this huge push to get more men to see therapists and work on themselves and everyone seemed to think this was a positive
LOL no, almost nobody off social media and in IRL believed any of that shite. Its just the usual people who always give bad advice, giving bad advice, and laughing at the people who took it. Look for coincidences in the names of the people pushing it. Its just Jewish mysticism which might even help if you're culturally Jewish enough but if you're not already onboard with the mental illness to tranny pipeline, therapy isn't going to help. Stick with white person stuff like faith healing or snake handling or astrology, or whatever color you are.

>>33228765 (OP)
Only retards go to therapy

>>33228920
Therapists charge insane rates and a huge number of insurance companies don't cover it, so it's a luxury. It's a subtle status symbol when you can afford to blow money on therapy for years at a time, so of course women love it. Pair that with it being glorified by a certain set of progressive beliefs and it's basically replaced the role of church for liberal Millenial and GenZ women.
Of course, like church, women who go claim they like the idea of a guy who goes to therapy, but it actually plays pretty much no role in who they decide to sleep with.

>>33228933
It also doesn't help that most therapists are dogshit at their jobs, that the credentials system surrounding it is a mess or that there's not really a good way to evaluate therapist performance.

>>33228882
calling out OP's bullshit is "sly and cunning manipulation"

>>33228765 (OP)
>therapy-speak weaponized
the fuck does that even mean and what's with the fad of lame retards using "weaponized" for people doing shit they don't like

>>33228765 (OP)
You made this thread with the intent of making anons go to therapy, nigger.

>>33228882
Not OP but in my case it's been shit like
>it's your turn to do the dishes
>why can't YOU do them? are you really that fucking lazy?
>i always do when it's my turn. it's your turn now. please do the dishes so i can cook.
>you're stressing me out with the nagging and OCD, the way you treat me is why i can't get anything done
>you're trying to manipulate me. if you did the dishes i wouldn't have to ask
>no, YOU'RE manipulating ME, i almost never forget the dishes. i did yours one time last week so it's your turn now
>you did not, i have pictures for proof bc you pull this every week
>wow, you're a fucking schizo, that isn't normal. i live with a crazy person. these conversations make me doubt my sanity :(

>it was meant to be our date night. where are you going?
>wtf, you're so nosy. are you telling me i can't go out?
>no, i was just asking. this has happened a lot lately.
>you're so paranoid and jealous and controlling, that's why i'm ditching you and going out with someone else
>are you doing that darvo thing again?
>nuh uh, YOU are trying to steal MY victim status, you manipulator, stop torturing me psychologically, can't you see that you're victimizing me? you're gaslighting me. anyone would need time away from a relationship like this and you're doubling down trying to control me and keep me from leaving the house ;_;

Repeat ad nauseam, every time I had to ask him to do or not do something. Unfortunately I've only dated low IQ men so the manipulation attempts I've been subjected to have been comically transparent rather than sly and cunning, but I don't believe it's all that different in practice considering catching and pointing someone's behavior out doesn't seem to change anything.

>>33228765 (OP)
Yeah therapy can be dangerous
You're so much better off just reading the Enchiridion and getting a dose of tough love from our boy Epictetus

>>33228765 (OP)
Didn't this whole "They're weaponizing Therapy language!" start because Jonah Hill didn't want his surfer girlfriend to wear slut mode bikinis around all her male surfer friends that she previously fucked? So he set boundaries for himself in the relationship of what he found acceptable in a partner and left her with the choice on whether to she wanted to continue doing that or having a relationship?

You guys over think this stuff so much, how can you stand it? You could go back and forth redefining wtf a boundary or manipulation is to each other ad nauseum. If you like them, keep moving forward till you have a good reason not to, fuck

>>33229360
You are mentally retarded

>>33229708
i can't believe people put up with anyone who swears, raises their voice, insults, etc. that is literally step one and i know for a fact that you're guilty of it yourself otherwise you wouldn't do it. and dont tell me mommy and daddy used to scream at each other so you're used it, just stop doing it and stop tolerating people who do it. make it very clear you will leave if they are not polite, and then actually leave if they are not polite, and then politely explain to them why that happened once they ask for you back.

>>33229863
ok u fucking mary

>>33229863
So basically you can never be with a Latina woman.

>>33229926
>>33229948
you wouldn't believe the leaps and bounds your mental health will take upwards when you practice and expect a little respect, not surprised brownoids can't do it

>>33228765 (OP)
Being a human being is a "red flag" either find someone that appeals to your selfish and biased ideals like everyone else does or fuck off

>>33230176
this post should be a banner for /adv/

>>33229730
>Boundaries
That retard crossed his own boundaries by going after a promiscuous women in the first place

It'd be like getting a proz as a gf, and then telling her your boundary is that she can't be a proz

>l'm been on dates and a few relationships with men in therapy, and they are using it like they have unlocked a new superpower. I've had therapy-speak weaponized and used against me, and it more and more seems like this is just teaching them to be more manipulative, more cunning and sly. They now have an array of various tactics at their disposal unknown to them previously, and they are using it to trick us and use suggestion and coercion.

>>33228765 (OP)
It actually has been shown in studies that narcissists get worse with some forms of therapy because they actively weaponize it

>>33228765 (OP)
in my country the teach psychology in middle and high school and if you're interested in it after the shallow first taste you can learn how to manipulate and be sly without ever attending therapy, you just gotta love to read a bit.

>>33228765 (OP)
The kinds of men who seek therapy tend to be leftoids. Leftoids tend to have problems with interpersonal relationships (see: divorce rates and infidelity, which increase in proportion with their radicalism and/or social status).

>>33228765 (OP)
> Everyone in therapy is a problem
When everyone else is the problem that hints the problem is actually you. See a therapist.

>>33230082
as a brownoid raised in white mans land what you said really holds
dont be a nig and life is good basically

>>33231982
>in my country the teach psychology in middle and high school
What like a Sith academy?

>>33232496
IDK it's just part of the curriculum

>>33228765 (OP)
>roastie gets a taste of her own medicine
LOL just desserts. Doesn't feel good when it's done to you, does it? Frustrating, huh? Yeah, we know.

>>33228920
no, of you don't belong in an insane asylum, therapy is a scam and actively detrimental to normal people.
Americans say 'get therapy' now because it's no longer socially acceptable to call be crazy or lunatics because that's like half the population now and enough of them are Karens so it got tonepoliced into normal vernacular. Kind of like how neurodivergent is ripe and just asking to be the new retard.
The function of therapy is to clinically observe people that belong in mental institutions and would have been locked in insane asylums. Only someone really fucked in the head would think they're helping someone by taking a captive prisoner, calling them a patient, torturing them into giving you every intimate detail of your personal life, calling that treatment, and once you're broken, drugged, and brainwashed parade you to the world as for notoriety and call you successfully reformed.
A Clockwork Orange shows it rather well in the Ludovico Technique all classical conditioning essentially is.
Don't trust doctors, especially don't not trust doctors that claim they understand the human mind. At least a surgeon knows how to stop the bleeding if an amputation goes south

>>33229360
>she
>her
>implying she wasn't samefagging

>>33232496
Lol, get real, Star Wars takes place long ago in a galaxy far far away.

It was the UK, Slytherin house to be exact

>>33228765 (OP)
Don't blame me. Blame yourself or God.

>>33234360
>Don't blame me. Blame yourself or God.
Damn kek! I can't explain why, but that hits pretty hard.

>>33228765 (OP)
>I've had therapy-speak weaponized and used against me, and it more and more seems like this is just teaching them to be more manipulative, more cunning and sly.
wow, exactly like what women have been doing for decades!
eat it, bitch

>>33228765 (OP)
>I've had therapy-speak weaponized and used against me, and it more and more seems like this is just teaching them to be more manipulative, more cunning and sly
Welcome to the world of men for the past 10 years.

>>33229387
Thread should have ended at this post.

>>33233051
My step mother forced me into therapy after she pretty much took over my childhood home and deemed me uncooperative and therefore sick in the head.

I have never gotten ANY useful advice from any therapist and I am now convinced that this harpy is the one who has a territoriality problem.

Anyways, made me realize I have literally zero mental health problem. I'm just in a shitty and depressing world that my ape brain isn't made for... and I'm reacting to it as one should. Glad I never took any drugs, these fuck you up, especially if you have nothing wrong. I've seen it happen.

Anyways, you're very right, and your meme is very on point.

You could say that in an evolutionary sense, women had the right to manipulate men, like men had the right to physically abuse women. Now that men no longer have that right to rule over women, it's only fair that they also get women's manipulation and social skills. I don't like it, but it is what it is. It's equality.

>>33228765 (OP)

This is part of the reason why I don't go to therapy. It's largely a scam. 350 million people in the United States, apparently everyone needs a therapist now.

It's one big cash grab man. Unless you're really dealing with something recent, super traumatic, like getting raped or a near death experience, I don't see much reason in going to therapy on regular basis. I went at times in my life where having someone to talk things out with helped immensely. I felt as though I outgrew the experience in the last four or five years.

I think exercising caution in your case OP is a fair way to go about getting to know anyone new. Just don't be overly presumptuous and assume it makes a man automatically suspect. We all experience hardships in our own ways. What I think is moreso a red flag is the mentioning of his regular therapy sessions so early on into getting to know you. You don't need to know that. The fact he felt so comfortable telling you such an intimate and personal detail off rip suggests to me that therapy and his personal traumas are very much so a part of who he is in his day to day life. I'm not saying he should bottle up his feelings forever, but to be so liberal with that kind of information screams red flag to me because it means his trauma and depression and personal issues are a focal point of how he perceives reality. If he's constantly operating his life from the standpoint of perpetual victimhood, how can you be confident he is confident in his own ability to face life's problems? You're approaching it correctly OP. Don't be callous, be empathetic and try to be supportive, but it's not your responsibility to carry the entire burden. Just watch out for that is all.

We've got a lot of fucking assholes here in this thread that are mad that women are now figuring out men are using "Therapy" as a cheat code to attack women!

>>33235999
Final Fantasy Tactics was a hell of a game.

>>33228765 (OP)
As a man, and... I'm not exactly a "therapy doubter", but I think there's a lot of horrid therapists, and I believe therapy as a solution to every ill has become a trend...

This is absolutely a thing. It's not just guys, but when women started using more therapized language in culture, a lot of guys realized "hey, I can get in on this and lord it over them, too." So they do.

Women do it too, a ton, but yes weirdo guys are getting in on it now. One of the most horrible people I know was not even a therapist... a school councilor with a psychology masters... and he loved to hold himself up as a genius, and would do his level best to divide the room using group control tactics and sheer audacity. It wasn't until everyone in the room stood up and went "No, dude, we know what you're doing, fuck you" that he sat down and went quiet, and quietly left the group with his not-gf a couple months later.

>>33228765 (OP)
I know what you mean. Unfortunately there is a kind of guy who is purely performative in the things he does, therapy being one of them. The good thing though is that they're performative in other ways, some of whom are easier to pick up on.

The trick is distinguishing what is performative and what is genuine. I've found that you can do this by looking at patterns. If they talk about going to therapy, talk about reading women's literature, talk about leftist ideology - but then, when asked about it, they don't have any deep thoughts - well, that's performative.

Yes. Anyone needing therapy has a huge red flag, regardless if they're actively in therapy.
Wtf.

>>33239737
Shhhhh

>>33228899
>Let's unpack "boundaries"
LOL. The abuser is YOU

>>33241768
How is anything I said here being abusive? I was giving some very specific examples of how using "boundaries" can be weaponized against a partner.

>>33228765 (OP)
You have a valid point. From a man's perspective:
Men without trauma don't need therapy.
It is not cringe tough boomer talk, but anything that is not serious trauma men should be able to resolve by themselves and their social circles, and if you can accept that, then give these men a chance.
However, men without REAL problems and actual trauma in therapy? You are 100% right to be on the defensive.

>>33228765 (OP)
Does therapy even work for men? My brother told a therapist about our childhood and she cried. Honestly how can women help anyone?

>>33244606
Get a male psychologist, obviously
Not even trolling, I would never consider a female "therapist"

>>33228765 (OP)
The push behind women going "men should be emotionally vulnerable and open about their feelings" and "it's okay for men to talk about going to therapy" wasn't really to help men, but to serve as a way of identifying men who aren't in control of their emotions so as to avoid them and warn other women about men who might make for poor partners.

On paper, therapy and counseling can work if you're paired with a doctor who genuinely wants to help you and see you improve. In reality, thanks to the medical-industrial complex therapy has been quietly remade to perpetuate dangerous cycles that persist in people suffering. Most therapists want you to manage the symptoms of whatever you're suffering from rather than actually solve the problem or identify that this degree of societal mental anguish isn't natural for human beings.

>>33233051
I've been in therapy for a few months and I'm thinking of quiting because of shit like this. I tried to off myself over how shit my life is and out of the dozens of therapist I called and emailed only 1 actually got back to me in a timely manor while the rest didn't get back to me till 3-4 weeks later or not at all. I'm sticking with it since like I said I tried to off myself but a lot of the shit she's been suggesting and infering too I don't trust in the slightest or is the reason I'm even in this situation to start with.

>men discover DARVO tactics have been used on them since forever
>women most affected

Cry out as you strike me some more, go on. Louder now, put your heart into it this time. Yeah! That's it!

>>33229387

astonishing reply,kudos anon.

>>33229387
This. And American women are the worst at this.

>>33230082
This. Holy fuck. There's this fucking spic whore that lives above my apartment. I had to train her like an animal to shut the fuck up. This is how it went:
>"Hey, could you please be quiet?"
>FUCK ASS WHITE BOY FUCK ASS WHITE PEOPLE FUCK YPIPO REEEE
>"Okay, well, I hope you didn't plan on sleeping for the next 4 months."
>FUCK ASS RACIST WHITE BOY
>YO SHUT THE FUCK UP
>PLEASE BE QUIET
>HE WON'T STOP WTF????
Then they tried complaining to the apartment complex, who was also sick of their shit.

Now they shut the fuck up. Because now they know if they don't, they don't get to sleep.

If someone won't act rationally in your relationship, drop them. Because you can only train them like an animal. They won't change. If they didn't think they needed to respect you as a person until they were afraid of you, then they weren't marriage material.

And before anyone says I'm racist, all of my friends are either Cuban or Mexican.

>>33228920
Mental health in America is kind of awful due to the country having a persistent culture of fragmentation and dissolution of bonds and structural issues reinforcing that in a major way.

Modern therapy often does not work because it uses tools meant for specific situations for problems they're not designed for, due to perverse incentives.

>>33241315
I feel like almost any guy in therapy is being performance.

>>33228765 (OP)
I'm starting to consider a woman using 4chan a HUGE red flag in dating

>>33241768
kek, this

>>33229708
>Unfortunately I've only dated low IQ men
kek, and whose fault is that?

>>33229516
bingo

>>33233051
>Don't trust doctors
good advice. add to that that 99% of "mental health professionals" are not doctors to begin with.

>>33245163
correct. an example of misuse of tools: CBT works for OCD (because beliefs are literally irrational). it is not meant for depression (which in men's case has rational basis).

>>33229507
based and redpilled.

>>33229863
Don't project your childhood experiences onto others, I've never been yelled at by anyone. More interestingly, how attractive and/or promiscuous are you to be able to dump people for saying a swear word? That sounds extremely frivolous.

>>33250037
Mine for listening to my parents and committing while I was young and inexperienced. By the time I managed to get away from my first every man above 90 IQ was taken.

Men want pussy and will do what it takes to get it simple as. Therapy is a red flag assuming a person is mentally fucked and requiring meeting with an incompetent doctor who only wants a paycheck. Evolutionary biology isn't designed for allowing the unfit to reproduce. If you are wack, don't even try to find anybody. Just lay down and rot, it's for everyone else's own good and fuck you and your crazy bullshit.

>>33244664
>Most therapists want you to manage the symptoms
it is worse. constantly revisiting your "traumas" and talking to your "inner child" (doesn't exist; splitting your personality is demonic like "parts work") is making you increasingly sick.
consider a regular wound - yeah it might require cleaning once but after that you seal it up and let passage of time, good exercise and good nutrition heal it. (oh, exercise and nutrition? never heard a therapist make that a major focus)
you don't open up a laceration twice a week for some bitch to poke it with her dirty dip powder nails. that'll be $200/hr+tip, btw.

>>33250117
>every man above 90 IQ was taken
you are copemaxxing. let me guess, you didn't feel "chemistry" when walking past engineering department of your local college?

>>33250185
I am an engineer and all my boyfriends have been engineers. Funny, my sluttier friends who date ex-manwhores have never had issues with those guys exhibiting any type of social maladjustment.

>>33250208
what diversity hire 90 IQ engineers have you been dating? this board needs IDs.

>>33228765 (OP)
>Men in therapy
Thats kinda crazy. I don't have a single traumatic thing that has happened to me to warrant going to therapy. I am a pretty well adjusted individual with healthy relationships with everyone in my life.
Life is so easy when you are this cool.

>>33250230
Even in engineering most jobs are given based on either vibes and connections, or past credentials which were gained through vibes and connections. I don't deny having seen brilliant men in my fields of work but they get snatched up at a young age and never re-enter the dating market.
Besides, the issues I mentioned were with manipulativeness, not IQ. IQ is a shallow standard in mate selection either way, I do not want a higher IQ boyfriend, I want one who isn't opportunistic or dishonest.

>>33250288

>>33250325
>not wanting higher IQ kids
ngmi

These types of people are just weirdos. Getting into a better situation with one's mind is not a hobby or thing to flaunt. The people who talk to councelors and think it's so important are insane. Even the counselors themselves are insane. I think you should have a connection with an actual person instead of these weirdos.

99% of people who go to therapy just don't have real problems to begin with.

>>33228765 (OP)
It can be a red flag but a few things to consider.

Heirarchy
Gold No "mental illness"
Silver treated "mental illness"
Bronze Untreated "mental illness"

Also before you consider a red flag to be massive please consider the percentage of the population you're writing off. Emotional problems are on the upswing, as is diagnosis of disabilities and so forth, and seeing a therapist is somehow in vogue. Are you ready to write off a massive chunk of the population, many of whom are decent folks?

>>33252169
Your text contradicts the picture you shared. I'm more inclined to agree with the picture and I'm not even a misogynist.

>>33228765 (OP)
Is this a joke thread or something? First off, congratulations on turning "men seeking therapy" into a villain origin story straight out of a soap opera. You’re out here acting like every guy in therapy is twirling a mustache, armed with "therapy-speak" like it’s a lightsaber. Newsflash: therapy isn’t a secret dojo where men unlock "manipulation jutsu." Most of them are just trying to figure out why they cry during dog food commercials or how to stop texting their ex at 2 a.m. But sure, let’s assume they’re all Lex Luthor in flannel, plotting to weaponize self-awareness.

And the paranoia? You’re on a great date, vibing, and the second this guy mentions therapy, you’re suddenly Sherlock Holmes, combing through every past conversation for “clues” of his evil mastermind tactics. Did he hold the door open? Manipulation. Did he ask how your day was? Coercion. Did he tip the waiter? Clearly a sociopath flexing his therapy superpowers. If you’re this defensive, you’re not dating. You’re auditioning for a true crime podcast. Imagine if men said, “Women who read self-help books are just learning how to gaslight us.” You’d lose your fucking mind, and rightly so.

So, maybe take a breather, put down the detective hat, and consider that not every guy in therapy is a Machiavellian mastermind. Some are just human. Or, you know, keep treating every date like a psychological warfare zone. Your call. Just don’t be shocked when you’re single at the premiere of Therapy Man 2: The Sly Suggestion.

Modern therapy is designed for women so no shit it doesn't work on men. Big waste of time and money from my experience.

>>33229708
>taking pictures of the sink to use later
If you're treating a relationship like a zero-sum game where you have to go perfectly tit-for-tat, you're forcing him into saying these sorts of things. When he pushes back he's trying to either argue that he did what you wanted or he's trying to tell you that the structure being more important than the task actually getting done is suffocating him. Some people aren't wired to follow charts and rules and FORCE themselves into that mold for you, they just want to get the shit done without you creating a court case over dishes.

>>33229387
screencapped
I'm trying to transform myself the same way. In my case I wouldn't consider therapy except I probably have BPD II. Getting it under control through sheer willpower is actually working but I need meds for the physiological side of the depressive episodes. I've learned deep empathy and compassion for others, that dating and relationships are more-or-less meaningless without the perfect person, and of my own worth.

Once you step outside of everything other people think and seek out what YOU personally want, you finally become free. Therapy can't do that for you.

>>33228765 (OP)
Could be just that guy. It's a little strange to bring up your therapy and techniques you learned in it.

I was molested by my dad for many years and bullied horribly throughout my entire school life. My mom signed me up for therapy 9 years ago after I told her I thought about killing myself. It has helped significantly. I'm semi-respected at work, lost a ton of weight, and can get out of bed without immediately wanting to jump off a bridge. The sad truth is the overwhelming majority of people either don't care about your problems or will use them as ammo against you. Outside of my mom and my therapist, no one cares about me, so it's really a necessity for me, although I don't see an actual psychiatrist because it's way too expensive for me.

>>33228765 (OP)
>I don’t want a man to get an outside perspective or psychological insight because then he might “use therapy speak against me” aka recognize my own shitty behavior.
You’re the red flag.