>Married 17 years, 3 kids
>Sex died 3 years ago, she rejects every advance.
>Constant nagging, fights, says I don't do enough
>She went to help her sick dad for 2 months
>House was peaceful without her
>Realized I wanted a divorce
Told her when she got back, she begged for therapy
>I refused, not getting gaslit
>Backed off divorce for the kids
>Told her I don't love her, just staying for them
>She tries to be sexy now, but it’s dead for me
>Still got needs though.
Thinking of asking her to open the marriage so I can get laid elsewhere.
How the hell do I convince her without turning it into a war?

>>33273493 (OP)
>Thinking of asking her to open the marriage so I can get laid elsewhere.
just cheat retard, nothing stopping you from doing so. you don't need her permission since you clearly don't give a shit about her

>>33273493 (OP)
>she begged for therapy
>I refused, not getting gaslit

Married couples who hit rough spots don't go to therapy OP, they go to couple's counselling. Couple's counselling/marriage counselling is not therapy. There is couple's therapy out there, but that's not the same thing.

Couple's therapy is all about having someone or both people change themselves in some way to make it work.

Couple's counselling is about keeping what you both are and finding ways to make shit work without changing or expecting each other to change.

Couple's therapy focused on emotions and issues and possible past influences, whereas counselling focuses on communication and finding new ways to scratch each other's back.

You've nothing to lose from couple's counselling OP. You won't get gaslit or talked out of your feelings at all.

>>33273502
>Cheat
I don’t want to cheat, I’m not a piece of shit. I just want to feel a woman’s touch after over three years of celibacy

>>33273493 (OP)
She's not going to let you open the marriage you ape.

>>33273564
I'm not gonna lie its pretty much jover and I don't think an open relationship is gonna work so just cheat or divorce

>>33273564
>I don’t want to cheat, I’m not a piece of shit
incorrect, this doesn't make you a "piece of shit" as long as you're already considering it. it doesn't matter because you're a pussy and you're not being direct with her about how you feel, more than likely the reason why you two have no chemistry anymore.
>I just want to feel a woman’s touch after over three years of celibacy
a: you will live, quit being a sex-addicted retard
b: just fuck her even if you don't feel the spark and you're that desperate. you reek of being an absolute pussy in every way

>>33273531
Couples counseling? I honestly don’t see the point anymore. I tried to make things work, I asked her over and over what was wrong and even offered to go to therapy together, but she refused. At this stage, I’ve told her clearly: that the only reason I’m still in this marriage is for the kids.

>>33273493 (OP)
>Backed off divorce for the kids
This does nothing for the kids btw. Growing up with divorced parents is significantly better than growing up with parents in a loveless sexless marriage. Source: My parents did both.
Open relationships suck op, especially in your case. You have no good reason to stay. She will just be extra baggage. You will grow to resent her more and maybe even go full Chris Watts.

End the relationship and move on. In 6 months you will be grateful you did..

>>33273577
>Quit being a sex addict.

I’m not. I could go without sex. The real issue is that for the past three years, she constantly complained, about me not doing enough around the house, not spending enough time with the family, whatever.

>Just sleep with her anyway if you’re that desperate.

Why would I? Every time I tried, whether it was a romantic dinner or booking a nice Airbnb getaway while the kids were with our parents, she shut me down. Always "no." But now that I asked for a divorce, suddenly she wants to have sex? Nah, not playing that game.

>>33273493 (OP)
Just get a divorce man. So many married people stay together just for the kids. However, if the kids grow up seeing their parents bicker, argue and fight 24/7, all that is going to do is build trauma for them.

Do yourself and your kids a favor and divorce. Regain your peace and you'll definitely find a new woman to have sex with.

>>33273607
>I’m not. I could go without sex
so stop bitching about "muh touch"
>The real issue is that for the past three years, she constantly complained, about me not doing enough around the house, not spending enough time with the family
so be direct and ask her what that qualifies as for her. be more specific with this and tell us how you spend time with your family
>Why would I? Every time I tried, whether it was a romantic dinner or booking a nice Airbnb getaway while the kids were with our parents, she shut me down. Always "no." But now that I asked for a divorce, suddenly she wants to have sex? Nah, not playing that game
you clearly don't understand how women work if her being clingy at the second you threaten to leave surprises you. Women use sex as a tool and a weapon for desperate cucks like you because they know it works. Everything is a mind game with them, what women want is for a guy to say "no" and have a spine unless they're mentally ill and entitled, those ones get left to rot and die alone with some other cuck at absolute best. I quite literally do not understand what you're bitching about, do not fuck this dumb bitch if you don't care about her because you shouldn't to begin with and leave.

>>33273614
>if the kids grow up seeing their parents bicker, argue and fight 24/7, all that is going to do is build trauma for them
THIS OP
Basic psychology, you will be subliminally teaching them that it is normal and fine to have a relationship like yours and they will subconsciously either emulate that in their future or reject it profusely by living promiscuously.

>>33273614
>>33273580
I get it, but I grew up with divorced parents and it was shit. My mom was a total slut, new dude in the house every other week. I don’t want my kids going through that crap, especially my daughters. God knows what kind of degenerate she’d bring around next.

>>33273635
>be more specific with this and tell us how you spend time with your family
I work a regular 9 to 5 as a computer engineer. On weekends, I’m home helping out. I take my son and oldest daughter camping, hiking, even hunting. I go to a ranch often with my youngest, we ride, feed animals, the whole deal. I also make time to do stuff with all of them together. So honestly, I’ve got no idea where she gets the idea that I’m not spending enough time with the family. Total BS.

>do not fuck this dumb bitch if you don't care about her.
Im going to thats why i want to open up the marriage

>>33273697
>I work a regular 9 to 5 as a computer engineer. On weekends, I’m home helping out. I take my son and oldest daughter camping, hiking, even hunting. I go to a ranch often with my youngest, we ride, feed animals, the whole deal. I also make time to do stuff with all of them together. So honestly, I’ve got no idea where she gets the idea that I’m not spending enough time with the family. Total BS
>Im going to thats why i want to open up the marriage
i've got no more advice for you. Leave her or face the consequences, simple as that. spend time with your kids, fuck other women

Staying together "for the kids" does not mean that you are doing the best for them. Would you rather raise them separately or under a stressful house where mom and dad hate each other, and teach them those values?

I don't know your situation or history. You can try and work things out, but if you genuinely want to leave and don't see it turning around then just leave. Don't stay in an unhappy relationship and say it's "for" anyone else-- you'll just be resentful of everyone involved. Whatever you do you need to do it open and honestly. Don't do underhand shit. You cheat and she will take you for all you're worth when she finds out. You can divorce and THEN fuck around if you want. You only lose if you fuck around while being married. Get out first if sex with someone else is so desired.

>>33273493 (OP)
You know the whole point of marriage isn't to have crazy wild sexy sex, right?

Marrying someone means you love them so much, that your love transcends the physical need to coooooooom like some retarded ape.

Especially when you have kids, god damn, what are you like in your 40s?

You also think you'd just able to snap your fingers and rizz up some hot 19 year old? bro can't even fuck charm his own wife

>>33273564
you’re an idiot. she’s going to get guys instantly and you’re not going to get pussy. just cheat you bitch ass

>>33273760
>>33273768
I’m not asking for sex every day, hell, I’d have been fine with once a month. But it’s been over three years.
I’m 39, not looking for some 19 year old. I just want someone my age who makes me feel wanted.
I still look pretty damn good for 39. If she wants to see someone else, that’s her choice, I’m past caring.

>>33273827
>I’m not asking for sex every day, hell, I’d have been fine with once a month.
Turning sex into a chore, like one should also clean behind the fridge once a month or dust the selves and light fixtures once a week etc is a great way to ruin the romance and sexuality in your marriage.

Sex has to be something that's naturally escalating, spontaneous, fun and relaxing - not something that someone plugs into their calendar and has to worry about it all week or all month long like a dentist appointment only for them to cancel it because they had bad diarrhea that day or whatever.

> I just want someone my age who makes me feel wanted.
I don't know man this lady married you and plopped out three kids that has to count for something.

Go ahead and ask. It's really a great idea. Any female who can fog a mirror can get laid in days, if not hours.

You, on the other hand, will struggle to find someone.
>"Oh, you're married?"
>"You have an open marriage? Sure you do."
>What do you mean you can't stay more than an hour? What do your kids have to do with it?"
After a few weeks your frustration and horniness will have you begging to close the marriage. But she will have partners lined up for the next few months wo you'll just have to sit on the back burner.
t. still sitting on the back burner

>>33273843
Things were great between us for 14 years, then she just started changing. I never treated sex like a chore, I always tried to keep it natural and easy. But after she lost her dream job, she started picking fights over nothing and wouldn’t even let me kiss her goodbye before work. She did find another job in the same field, but ended up quitting that after a year.

>>33273910
It’s not like I can’t get women, I get flirted with all the time. When I go out for drinks with coworkers, even during that hotel conference, women from sister companies were hitting on me. I’m 6'0", lean, around 17% body fat, full head of good hair, I'm not some desperate goblin crawling out of the basement.

I’m not worried about “struggling.”

I can't give any advice as I have never been in your position.
17 year of marriage is a lot and I would like to tell you to work things out with your wife but I can't.
Seems like the problem is not sex but you feel unwanted, not loved. Marriage counseling could help
But your wife not even wanting to kiss you goobye says something is wrong (not with you but maybe with her). Is she cheating? If she is she might be feeling guilt.
I would stay together until the kids grow up 'couse I've seen what divorces do to still growing children
>You are living not for yourself but for your kids

>>33274018
do you see how her losing her shit job may have affected her day to day mood?

Also trying to bang your wife with kids in the house is creepy, once you get married and have kids, expect sex to be off the table for like 18 years

>>33274093
>do you see how her losing her shit job may have affected her day-to-day mood?

Yeah, I do, but she got another job two months later. It’s not like we were struggling financially or anything.

>Also, trying to bang your wife with kids in the house is creepy. Once you get married and have kids, expect sex to be off the table for like 18 years.

It was fine for 14 years. If that were the issue, then when I took her on a two-day trip to a luxury Airbnb, just the two of us things would’ve been different. But she just said she was tired and went straight to sleep.

>>33274145
>Yeah, I do, but she got another job two months later.
a shit job that clearly she hates, has nothing to do with money
>then when I took her on a two-day trip to a luxury Airbnb,
yeah but the entire pretense of that trip was "I will receive sex, surely" wasn't it?

>>33274232
>pretense of that trip was "I will receive sex, surely" wasn't it?

Not really. She’d been feeling down and stressed, so I thought I’d surprise her with a two-day beach trip to a place she’d been wanting to visit for a while. Yeah, of course I would’ve liked a bit of fun too, but that wasn’t the main reason. I just wanted to do something nice for her.

invite a couple over where the bf is clearly a cuck. then just instigate. he can stay in the corno

>>33274290
So what was wrong with her being tired after a day at the beach and getting some sleep in a luxury bed?

>>33274430
Tired from what? The only thing she did at the beach was sunbathing

>>33273493 (OP)
Just kill yourself instead, it'll be way easier.

>>33274440
>Tired from what?
Probably from her shit job and having to raise three kids? The general malaise of every day life?

probably got heat stroke from sunbathing as well

Point is, you totally were expecting sex as a reward for bringing her to that place.

>>33274484
Okey fine, but should she feel surprised after i ask for a divorce after not sleeping together for 3 years?

>>33274507
yeah cause you decided to skip right over marriage counselling or just talking to each other openly like a couple of grown ups, without a counsellor.

how/what are you gonna tell your kids btw?

>no haha no, no kids. mommy isn't a whore, she's the complete polar opposite of that, which is also bad.

>>33273493 (OP)
Opening your marriage won't fix it. If you're only needing the coom get a divorce and stay a father.

>>33274529
We actually talked about this after months of her shutting me down every time I tried to initiate. It was always "I’m tired," "I don’t feel great," "next week," or "I have lunch with my sister tomorrow, I can’t." Eventually, I brought it up, it turned into a fight, and she ended up calling me a sex pest. After that, I just stopped trying.

>>33274595
>I tried to initiate.
you sound like a zoomer on his first date, sex is never something that someone should "initiate"

like what you just start grabbing her tits out of nowhere when she's washing dishes or something what is this initiation procedure for the sex protocol

>>33274672
“Initiate” doesn’t mean I’m randomly groping her while she’s doing chores. It means showing affection, flirting, cuddling up in bed, trying to reconnect. You know, the kind of stuff couples should still do even after years together.

>>33274731
I don't play poker or know much about it, but in poker terms it sounds like you're "showing your hand" in that virtually every time you show physical affection it's doing so because you're trying to achieve your sex quota for the month.

If I'm able to tell that just from a few posts on a vietnamese basket weaving subreddit, your own wife figured that out as well long before I did.

It probably ended up where even if/when you weren't showing affection hoping to get sex out of it (e.g. trying to kiss her before work) she just starting to associate all your attempts as any physicality as trying to initiate sex

>>33273493 (OP)
Nigger just divorce. She brought this on herself by rejecting you. I don't know how she thought this was gonna end.

Men need sex at least once a week. Reject them and they start looking for it else where.

>>33273502
If he cheats he gets a massive L if they divorce and the kids won't respect him. He should divorce and find someone else or find a way to make the marriage work again.

>>33273493 (OP)
Anon, trust me, I understand why you feel the way you do. Years of resentment has turned you into a bitter fucking cunt. Same thing happened to me.

But here's the thing - the past is the past. Holding onto your butthurt is idiotic in this situation. If your wife is genuinely sorry and wants to work on why things happened the way they did, you should indulge her. Only good things can come of it.

I get why you don't want to hope - you're afraid of being disappointed again. But you know what's way more retarded? Choosing to remain a bitter butthurt turd for the rest of your life. You're choosing to remain miserable.

Just go to the fucking therapy. If she makes real changes, you will slowly learn to trust her again. You have to let go of it all. If you can't let go of it enough to even entertain her, maybe you should even separate for a while so the feelings die down. But you really should either give her a chance, or if you can't do that, cut her out of your life. Don't let butthurt and resentment consume you.

Again, I get it. It happened to me too. Almost your exact situation. But staying assmad did nothing positive for me, her, the kids, or anyone. Let it go.

>>33273578
Stop being such a stubborn ass. She's trying to be better and you're not giving her a chance, instead you just want a license to adultery. What the fuck is wrong with you. Give her a chance. And you have no idea what gaslighting means, her asking for a secodn chance is not gaslighting you stupid motherfucker

>>33273760
You're even fucking dumber than OP, sex is quite literally one of the things you owe to your marriage partner. If you dont want to have sex then dont get married

>>33273493 (OP)
> How Do I Ask to Open the Marriage?
kys degenerate

>>33273648
And your "solution" is to just be the slut yourself?

>>33275198
>>33274911
She's treated him like shit for 3 hole years. You don't just
> Let's therapy this shit!!
You fags are only giving her a free pass because she is a woman. If the roles reversed you'd still find a way to blame him.

OP, if you're not gonna divorce at least make sure she knows how fucked up she has been and that you are human too. Do this before you see therapy. Make sure she apologise otherwise you're both gonna waste your money and time.

>>33274093
>Also trying to bang your wife with kids in the house is creepy, once you get married and have kids, expect sex to be off the table for like 18 years
what a horrible take lmao

>>33274773
OP is far from perfect, but I find your reasoning tortured. Of course OP wanted to have sex with his wife, and pathologizing that is itself a problem. Just because wanting sex can be taken to excess doesn't mean it's a crime or something repellent in itself.

>>33274911
This

>>33275218
It's not a free pass. Divorce is still on the table, but OP is unlikely to find a stable second marriage, and his kids would also benefit most (and be more likely to stay close to him) if their parents reconciled. It's in everyone's best interest to keep the family happily intact.
If she pulls this kind of behavior again once they go to counseling and she gets complacent, that's proof a positive outcome isn't possible

Why ask? Just tell her that you’re going to do it and if she has a problem she can think back on the three years she didn’t put out but had the audacity to demand you do more

>>33274911
The hoeflation is so fucking real you’re out here telling a dude whose been shit on for years to go talk to a fucking mannequin head with a weird haircut and a satchel bag full of platitudes

>>33273493 (OP)
>Backed off divorce for the kids
there's a thread on this right now
don't fucking do this shit lol

>>33275286

here >>33272851

>>33275218
>>33275281
You're being immature and choosing to dwell in misery. You're also being illogical. Let go of the past, look at where you are now - which path leads to the best future? It is working with his wife to fix things between them. I never said he has to immediately forgive or trust her. Just give her a chance to show she can change. If she can manage to genuinely change, it will be OP's best outcome for his future and his kids' future. If she falls back into old patterns again, then OP should just divorce her. But under no circumstances should OP hold onto his butthurt and stay with her while being miserable every day or his life "for the kids", that is retarded.

>>33273493 (OP)
>She tries to be sexy now,
The saddest part about this is how wrong it is. Couples should be naturally attracted to each other, not have to force themselves. Even if you did sleep with her, it would feel wrong.
It sounds like she's in denial about the reality of your situation.

I would just go ahead and cheat.

>>33274804
>If he cheats he gets a massive L if they divorce and the kids won't respect him
maybe your pussy faggot bitch made kids you ignore and/or hate anyway
my kids will be redpilled. i will tell them to their face that daddy needs to smash and momma is dry. daddy can love his family and fuck his sidehoe at the same time cause daddy is a real nigga
maybe im a negrobrain for this idk

>>33275377
And your kids won't respect you. Remember, you are talking about their mother, you are cheating on their mother. No one would respect his dad for doing that to his mom, not even hood nigs.

>>33275436
if he maintains his duties to his wife and kids wouldnt it be justifiable because of a lack of intimacy on her part? it sounds like he is resentful asf and that prevents him from doing the "small things" that are big or reciprocating. he cant even fuck his own wife without feeling humiliated. ironically cheating might make him more loyal by knowing he can get it elsewhere when she inevitably pulls back after sex. the dynamic is completely fucked and even if it flipped momentarily there is a hard reset needed. if she knows you cant find better you are fucked and if i were to guess op knows this too but atp hed rather be alone
cheating would be a last resort, also the part about her sick dad (probably dying) is fucked up but whatever

>>33273493 (OP)
>but it’s dead for me
Just get a divorce you fucking pussy.

>>33275508
Not that guy, but adultery isn't justifiable, no.
An open marriage is still adultery, and it is arguably worse than just cheating, because the superficial acceptance of it by their mom sets an even worse example for the kids.

>>33273570
This, leave you fucking dumbass

>>33275218
agree three years no sex will never be fixed by therapy or counciling, the intimacy is gone

>>33275630
Personally I wouldn't want to have an open marriage in my own relationships. but if two people agree on that condition there shouldn't be any problem. The only real issue is not the open relationship part. It's the fact that he's doing it for the wrong reasons he's only doing it because his marriage is sexless but he's not willing to really leave his wife because of the kids or some other crap. Meaning this guy actually has no integrity.

This guy only has two options right now if he has some kind of self-respect.

Either he goes through the divorce for his own sake.

Or he's willing to talk out with his wife and start over and let go of the past.

This third position crap is just a cop out.

>>33275362
>You're being immature and choosing to dwell in misery.
Anon, she was gone for two months and he was happy. How is that dwelling on misery?

I have been in the sort of a similar situation. Dumped a girl whom I was in a relationship with for 4 years, cried my shit out, got into a self pitty relationship 1 month later dumped that girl in 2 weeks. Decided, "fuck it, I'll go 6 months without thinking about women."

First two months are rough but you'll see benefits on month 3 (I say they show from month 1 but you'd be too miserable to see them).

After those 6 months I was mentally healthy enough to make new friends and my bank account inflated. I started to enjoy running again. I started to like people again. I felt like my life was moving forward. I felt so good I forgot she existed...then she called me.

My dumbass had forgotten how shit she made me feel, I was blinded by her gorgeous body and face. We got back together. The first 2 months were good but things returned to square one again on month 3.

Hoeflation is only a thing if you're looking at blonde skinny zoomer tiktok/insta women. There are plenty of beautiful women out there that men don't have the balls to ask out. If you're not a dumb ass and you know were you stand in the looks:age department, you'll be fine. I broken up with her again and managed to bumped into two beautiful women who seemed interested, one of two I'm getting closer too at my own pace.

>>33274911
I tried everything to make it work. Hit the gym, built a home in the basement, dropped 25 pounds, and got my top 4 pack showing. I tried being romantic, and spontaneous, and even gave her space. Asked her to go to therapy with me more than four times, and she always said no.

For over three years she wouldn’t let me touch her. Literally, put a pillow between us in bed until I just stopped trying. Wouldn’t even let me kiss her goodbye. Now that I’ve finally had enough and asked for a divorce, suddenly she wants to fix things?

Now she tries to kiss me in front of the kids like nothing happened. Tries to cuddle in bed like she didn’t shut that down for years. And when I pull away, she acts hurt, like I’m the one being cold. It’s bullshit. She didn’t care when it mattered. Now it’s just damage control.

I told her that I would only stay in this marriage until our youngest 12 was 18 and after that, we would get a divorce.

why would you bother negotiating an open marriage? do you want strangers to fuck your wife?
just get a younger woman as a side-piece, like everybody else does.

>>33277167
OP. regardless of what path you take, you should lay every complaint you've given in this thread before her so she at least knows why you are telling her you're going to divorce her. Don't just say you're annoyed about the lack of intimacy: Tell her that she's being a selfish hypocrite for wanting you to be receptive to her advances when she hadn't been reciprocating your own. Communicate it directly and sternly and make her acknowledge she has no excuse to feel upset that you're not happy with her and that she shouldn't be surprised that you want a divorce. That is, if you haven't done this already.

If she gets what she did wrong and what she is doing wrong and you feel she's remorseful enough, then I'd recommend giving her a chance and trying to seek help with her. If you feel like it doesn't make much of a difference, then get divorce. I think though that you owe it to the time you two have been together to make her understand what she has done to get you to this point and why you feel as if her current efforts to do damage control aren't sufficient.

>>33274804
>>33275377
If he does this, instead of fucking a new girl, the justice system will fuck him over. His kids will blame all their emotional problems on him and the alimony and child support will ensure he can't afford a new girl. All because he only thought about his dick instead of his wife and her sick father. Unfair but that's the discrimination he'll face. Good luck, OP.

>>33273493 (OP)
Psychologist here son, have my time

>Sex died 3 years ago, she rejects every advance
17 years of dealing with women, and you have no clue who they are. Its okay, I will be your dad

Woman is a reflection of you. Its a mirror. Like a child, a pet, a passenger. She doesn't reject your advances, she allowed you to impregnate her three times. Three risks. You just dont arouse her anymore. Either polarity is gone, or your personality is behind your attractiveness, or you became unattractive. Women operate on desire, its not a choice. As its not a choice for you when to sneeze

>Constant nagging, fights, says I don't do enough
I will tell you something, receive it is with an open heart. You are the general blaming your soldier for acting shitty. Soldiers follow. They act as you lead

>refused, not getting gaslit
I will say it with brutal love. You do need therapy. Not heavy medication, but you have mo relationship skills, no emotional awareness and some kind of childhood traumas. Instead of listening and leading, you are throwing tantrums, fighting and running away. That situation retouches something similar from the past, emotional chain

>She tries to be sexy now
You found your manhood for the first time in your life by walking away. She mistakes it for masculinity and sexual polarity, but you are just being an angry child running away from the football game

I am saying all of this harshly, so it pierces the noise of decades of your dysfunctional programming and trauma loops

Honestly you have an amazing wife, regular woman would cheat and divorce rape you after the vive of constant toxicity in your household you allow. You wife is a good woman

>>33277167
The relationship is beyond saving just based on how you are talking. When trust is broken and contempt sets in, that is a point of no return. People are downplaying the impact of 3 years of rejection and betrayal. Denying all physical touch from your husband is a profound rejection and clearly signals disgust. And yes, it is a big deal that it took you threatening to leave just to get her to be physical with you again. It suggests that she has only changed her behavior out of fear of loss. Which is different than genuine desire. You are right not to trust the about face. Again, just from how you speak, you’ve already decided to never trust her again. And I don’t think you are wrong to feel that way. Once trust it is broken it is very difficult, near impossible to rebuild.

Anyway, your problem is you have 3 children and their wellbeing comes before your own. I think having an open marriage is unfair to them. Will take your time, energy, probably will inevitably lead to a divorce. I think you’re stuck with your wife if you want to do right by your children. At least until they’re all 18.

>>33273564
You're already breaking your vows by wanting to have sex with another woman you fucking retarded boomer nigger.

>>33277778
>Honestly you have an amazing wife
>won’t let him touch her for 3 years
The most cucked post imaginable. Contrary to popular belief you can’t “lead women” who don’t want to follow you. Women have their own agency as much as men may want to fantasize that they can mold them into whatever they want them to be. That’s not a feminist statement. It’s a warning for people who get involved with relentless, neurotic, pains in the asses and think they can fix them or mold them or lead them elsewhere. Here’s the truth, emotionally and physically OP’s wife already left him. She’s just panicking now because her security is threatened. There is no coming back from that. And it’s not a leadership issue.

>>33278033
Honestly, going three years without any physical affection really messed me up. I tried everything, being romantic, giving her space, even getting in shape, but nothing changed.

>It took you threatening to leave just to get her to be physical with you again.

Exactly. Now, all of a sudden, she’s trying to act close again. Like last Sunday, we were watching a movie with the kids, and normally she sits far away, but this time she sat next to me and tried to cuddle. I couldn’t push her away without making a scene in front of the kids, so I just bit my tongue and sat there, feeling miserable.

>I think you’re stuck with your wife if you want to do right by your children. At least until they’re all 18.

Yeah, you're probably right. If I even mention opening the marriage, it'll just blow up in my face and I’ll end up being the bad guy. Looks like I’ve got another six years to grind through this before I can finally walk away

>>33273614
My parents got divorced after my dad cheated but now that I'm older I know why he cheated. It's a cycle anon. I can't stand my mom now that I've seen some shit, she is like a child the same as when my dad cheated. He is now with someone else who put him in the same scenario. I know now that if you do stay for the kids you just make it a managed household like they do to you when they dead bedroom you. You then do what everyone else did in history and get a side chick, mistress, gf, stripper regular. The whole cheating thing is a society wide gaslight against men.

>>33273564
>I don’t want to cheat, I’m not a piece of shit

>>33273493 (OP)
>she begged for therapy
>>I refused, not getting gaslit
>She tries to be sexy now, but it’s dead for me
You absolutely ARE a sack of shit. lmao
I feel so sorry for your kids they have you as their biological father.
She wanted to change for you, but cleqrly that wasn't good enough.

>>33278151
>Wanted to change for me.
Lol. Lmao.
If she really wanted to change for me, she had three damn years to do it. But no only after I said I wanted a divorce does she suddenly realize we haven’t even kissed on the cheek, let alone on the lips, in almost three years.
It’s not about love. She just doesn’t want a divorce. That’s all this is.

>>33278178
Sometimes it takes a shock to wake people up.

Give her a chance to change. If she slips up again, you can always divorce later on down the road. Quit being a faggot.

>>33273493 (OP)
Man, between this and
>>>33277859
the married LARP demoralization threads are outnumbering the incel blackpill loser demoralization threads.
You guys need to join a fiction forum

>>33273493 (OP)
>>33273564
>>33273578
>>33273607
>>33278178
I fucking hope this is a roleplay, dude, because you are obviously the fucking problem
>My wife complained for years about stuff but I was fine! I was perfect! I just kept asking her what was wrong (even though she kept telling me what was wrong and I blew her off)! I did all the thing *I* thought were romantic!
>Now that she';s willing to do stuff its too late because should should have just known! She should have just done it! I don't wanna cheat, I just wanna fuck other women!
You should like a low IQ girl with an OF and a coke habit.

>>33278296
*you sound like

>>33273614
agreed, coming from a home where my parents were married (10 years) everyone thought it was so great but the truth is i would have rather them get a divorce because it was constant fighting everyday, house was tense 24/7 and i grew up hating my mom because of this and i was well aware that they both were cheating. It just made things worse for me in the future. Now i’m 23 with severe mental damage, trauma and i have no true sense of stable relationships. Yeah it’s hard to “break up” the family but in the future they’ll understand, and your kids will be able to sense that you don’t love their mom if you stay and it’ll just make things awkward

>>33278296
>wife denies all physical touch for 3 years, including even a kiss on the cheek.
>wife complains he’s doesn’t spent time with the family even though he regularly takes his kids hiking, camping and hunting in addition to working a full time job.
>OP improves his appearance and makes romantic gestures to try and indirectly address problem.
>calls him a sex pest when he tries to directly address problem.
Gee, I’m sure if he did more chores around the house the physical issues would magically be solved. Never mind that she refused to even have an honest discussion about it and instead insulted him.
>only when she is threatened with divorce does she change her behavior, meaning that even now she is only motivated to meet her own needs, not her husbands.
Do you guys ever think about how absurdly low your standards are for women. Ffs, she won’t let him kiss her on the cheek for 3 years. There’s no excuse for that, it’s called emotional and physical abandonment. She refuses to discuss the problem when it’s brought up instead insulting and deflecting, which is itself giving up. Doesn’t matter that OP is a good provider and father, is in good shape, and is making an effort to solve the problem, even discussing it directly. Oops, didn’t do enough chores, no touching for 3 years. Give me a break. It is a fantasy that men can create desire in women where there is none. OP’s wife left him physically and emotionally 3 years ago. She just kept living with him and that’s what she’s actually protecting here.

Placing all the responsibility for the relationship on the man is a fantasy men would like to believe. Sometimes women can betray or abandon you no matter how good you are. Better to accept it than engage in mental gymnastics to justify inexcusable behavior.

>>33273493 (OP)

Just leave, you'll feel better, if you've been together 17 years the kids are old enough to handle it.

>>33273493 (OP)
>She tries to be sexy now, but it’s dead for me
give it a good try too. If it doesn't work it doesn't work but I think since she's trying you should.

>>33278095

>most cucked post imaginable
I will bring to your attention, gently, that your mental vocabulary has word cuck in it. You despise them. Is it because you have some of your weakness that resonates there? Anyway, I didnt invent the game and millions of years of evolution. You may disagree, but you may also disagree with gravity to same result

>you can’t “lead women” who don’t want to follow you

Well, she gave him three children and 17 years. In woman scale its everything, her super limited youth and safety. Like literally all she has to offer once in a lifetime. If that is not following, what is? Woman can leave you over a single word if her emotions aligned with that

>Women have their own agency as much as men
Their agency is as predictable as day night cycle and doesnt exist in vacuum. All her agency is simple and reactive to the certain man in her mind, heart and soul. Or rather his perceived image in the moment

>relentless, neurotic, pains in the asses and think they can fix them or mold them or lead them elsewhere

Thats a very extreme cases. Coming from very shitty fathers and strings of exes with corresponding wounds. Are you warning him out of your own experience? How many women you dated? Any pattern there?

Average woman is as toxic as you allow her to be. She doesnt want feel like shit. She want the man to have more balls than she has, and not run away from her emotions like an avoidant toddler

>emotionally and physically OP’s wife already left him
Incorrect. She offers her intimacy. For a woman intimacy is potential suicide. Wrong man = she is unable to protect herself = children uncompetitive = death both physical and genetical. She has desire for the first time in years because he accidentally found his penis and leaving. Thats attractive to females

>She’s just panicking now because her security is threatened
Okay, I question your experience. How many women you dated longer than 2 years? Its a neutral question

>>33278591
>believes a story told on 4chan as ridiculous as OPs shit
fuck, you people ARE retarded.

>>33278591
Her
>please do things around the house and do things with the entire family
Him
>lol, nope, I am going to the gym, buying new clothes, and taking the kids off one at a time to do stuff I like
her
>but I need oyu to do stuff with the entire family and to do stuff around the house
Him
>I have NO IDEA what you want! Why won't you tell me what you want?
her
>Do stuff around the house and do stuff with the WHOLE family!
Him
>you cray bitrch, i am leaving you
her
>OK, whatever you want! I'll do it!
Him
>too late, lmao. I wanna fuck whores now, not you
And you think he's fine?
You're so stupid you have to be OP

>>33278679
It seems like everything started going downhill when OP's wife lost her job. That may have triggered feelings of jealousy and resentment toward him, he had a stable career and a good home life, while she had to start over from scratch. Losing her dream job likely hit her hard. Meanwhile, OP still had time to go to the gym, enjoy time with the kids, and keep his routine, while she was stuck in a new job she probably hated. That’s backed up by the fact that she quit that job less than a year later.

About six months after that, OP tried to talk to her about the dead bedroom. But by then, it seems like the resentment had grown even stronger. She probably wanted to hurt him the way she felt hurt, and that’s when she called him a "sex pest."

>>33275208
>sex is quite literally one of the things you owe to your marriage partner
back to discord

>>33278146
ma nigga
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9VE1ke1-tJM

>>33278935
>believes a story told on 4chan as ridiculous as OPs shit
I would call bullshit if
>calls him a sex pest when he tries to directly address problem.
hadn't literally happened to me too

>>33273580
Everyone I know whose parents stayed together 'for their sake' and divorced the moment they turned 18 has mad problems with their perception of reality in the context of relationships. Some of them realized their parents hated eachother but stayed together and feel a deep sense of shame for being the cause, others had no idea and were knocked off their feet by the revelation - And it's worth noting that 18-year-olds are still very much children, but this kind of sudden massive trauma fucks with their ability to step into being adults themselves and can set them back years as they now have to process this new perspective on their own history/life.

>>33273843
Yeah, I feel this. At some point after moving in together, the spontaneous fun sex stopped and my boyfriend started with the "Hey, want to have sex tonight? :)" and it's penciled in for bed time, which often ends up being long after I'm already falling asleep because we need to get up in 6-7 hours for work. It isn't fun being told "Oh babe, I'm sooo horny. Just stay like that for several hours and we'll do something about it later when I'm done with videogames."

I used to put on full silly little lingerie costumes and (try to) initiate a lot but kept getting told "You're too excited, wait until tonight! I'm too busy with Minecraft!" to a point where my self esteem shattered and now he's resentful that I don't still dress up, like I want to sit there in a fucking cow-print bikini for six hours while he sets up a diamond farm.

>>33277778
She's not a 14 year old girl anon. She's an adult. You're no true psychologist. If you are then, you're post is the reason why I avoid them.

This reads like it was written by a 14 year old who watched a couple of Andrew Tate videos.

>>33273493 (OP)
>Open marriage
Fucking cuck
Divorce her anyways. It's your life. Don't engage in this cuck shit.

>>33279061
Havent read the whole thread, my apologies

So I will just give general analysis

>Losing her dream job likely hit her hard
Women are not builders, biologically they have anxiety for several people (thing of tribal times where she was always with kids, sick people and elderly, while men are hunting and waging wars) they hate working. They hate risk, responsibility. That switches women into masculine energy, making them very stressed and unaroused

I havent read the thread, but when you make your woman work instead of letting her be the happy childish housewife, you switch her into your guy friend (fellow tribal builder with balls) and your mother (attending sick child by taking risks)

Paired with clueless petty men this usually destroys sexual polarity

>seems like the resentment had grown even strong
Relationship is a river. It must flow with direction and clarity of masculine energy. Or it gets stuck, water rotting and gathering trash. Op never ever heard his wife actually, what he hears is himself

>She probably wanted to hurt him the way she felt hurt
Women do that. Their feelings are overwhelming. And since men like op dont pay attention to what she is saying directly, women try to make you FEEL same thing. Its weird, illogical, but they cant help it, biology. Masculine energy doesnt fight or run away, is is gently finding out what was the INTENTION behind trying to hurt you

>called him a "sex pest."
Thats how he made her feel in the moment. Feelings are not chosen. They are felt. All op has to do is relax, calm her down like 17 years ago on a first date, laugh. And then slowly safely find out what made her feel like he is a sex pest. She knows its a strong word. Its not an attack, its a cry for help

>>33279626
>This reads like it was written by a 14 year old who watched a couple of Andrew Tate videos

You are trying to insult me, but I will be radiant instead

Andrew Tate is direct opposite of reality of life I am showing you. Tate brothers are men close to 40s who were emotionally hurt by their father as children. And then fatherless they grew in the world of competition. Selling windows, being dumped by women for richer men. Both Tate brothers are highly traumatized little boys starved for validation, who strongly they cannot be loved for who they are really. So they have to parade material wealth, hide behind it and shame others for not having it because it touches their traumas again

And they treat women poorly (cheating, devaluing, webcam studio human trafficking, etc etc) as a defense mechanism. Because if you hide yourself behind walls of big angry words, emotional distance and blinding gold, you wont get heartbroken again. As they were before many times, by women and father

Andrew Tate deep down position is women are trash, because that way he can cope that he wasnt rejected

My truth is different. Women are not trash, they are amazing for what they are designed for. You just have to learn how to operate them

>She's not a 14 year old girl anon. She's an adult
That blind ignorance is how men get heartbroken. Woman is not your friend. Not your rational equal. Not an adult. Woman is a dependant follower, designed not to take risks, to question everything, to see reality based on her emotions and biology in this certain moment. Women have lower impulse control. They feel deeper. Labeling women as adults is not truth, its your coping mechanism removing responsibility from yourself and blaming biological follower

Trying to treat women as adults is as unwise as treating weather as a precise pattern. You can do that, and then you will drown in the storm you chose to walk into our of your ignorance

>>33279626
Reading? Who does it?