how am I supposed to believe that incels are wrong and deranged when in fact everything they claim is happening in the dating scene is actually becoming true? I would like you to encourage or motivate me not to believe this

>>33315538 (OP)
because negative trends in the dating scene, however correctly identified, don't justify misogynist rhetoric essentializing women. women didn't ask for the dating world to be replaced with an app algorithm situated to male homosexuals, silicon valley did that

>>33315538 (OP)
The reason for that statistic is that women think they're in a relationship while men think they're just doing FWB.

>>33315554
That’s not what OP asked though.
He asked to be convinced they are factually wrong about the dating scene being hopeless, not morally wrong about misogyny.

>>33316635
Ah yes, all of those young guys you see alone in public have one or more FWB, and the dead-inside "I haven't spoken to anyone in two weeks" eyes are merely an act

>>33315538 (OP)
incels are a very vocal minority tho
the rest of people, although not seriously "dating", are having a thing or two
ask around if you have normal friends.
a lot of people nowadays don't wanna be commited to something and don't want all the serious business of dating but still wanna fuck from time to time, specially dudes

>>33315538 (OP)
You want me to convince you that society is healthy and in good shape?
Yeah LOL. Good luck finding optimists these days.
Just try to "get yours" and enjoy the ruins of this world.

>>33316854
The women are all in FWBs with the same few men, the rest of the men can't get anything.

>>33316910
He’s being sarcastic and everyone who knows this and points it out gets shouted down and criticized while the birth rate plummets and mental health issues in society proliferates… female hypergamy is not normal

Moid If you looksmaxed by getting hair implants and genio you would get a girlfriend yet you don't listen to that part

>>33316815
>He asked to be convinced they are factually wrong about the dating scene being hopeless, not morally wrong about misogyny.
No he didn't. He said what he said

>>33315538 (OP)
>how am I supposed to believe that incels are wrong and deranged when in fact everything they claim is happening in the dating scene is actually becoming true?

and you factually can believe their descriptive claims are true without rejecting the notion that they are wrong and deranged. people agree on the description of a problem all the time while have totally nutso thoughts and prescriptive recommendations. both the far left and far right agree Israel is a problem right now, for instance, but the fact that they both factually identify this fact correctly does not mean that they are both free of wrong and delusional premises or plans on what to do with it.

>>33315538 (OP)
anon that pic is easily explained by the fact that most women, more than ever, are bisexual or some sort of memesexual - if they're not full blown lesbians.

>>33316990
I look maxed and tried hitting on women and failed so spectacularly that my depression became debilitating and I havent left my house in 5 months

>>33317145
Not true at all. Majority of women share minority of attractive men

>>33317173
>Majority of women share minority of attractive men
You know that's been true since your grandparent's time right

gen z acting like being attractive is somehow a modern problem

>>33317211
in the past ugly people left cities to fuck goats in the countryside or went to die in wars or became sailors and turbo gay sluts
nowadays they don't have those options anymore so they have to see the rest of us have fun full of hate and seething

>>33317287
Literally all they have to do is learn to dance, but they won't listen. Dancing is literally designed for ugly men to get women out of their league.

>>33317303
What kind of dancing

>>33317287
why don't you have sex with someone else who's also ugly?

(because you only want a 8+/10)

>>33317303
works great for manlets too, awkward lankcels that are only into metal or "music you don't dance to" can't compete over some 5'4 guy who can spin a lady around the dance floor and show her a great time

>>33317322
I have my fun with girls around my score, I'm 6,5/10 and I usually date girls around 7/10 to 8/10
anything beyond that is diminishing returns too much effort for little love back
I've seen telling people to do this for months but they don't listen, if they're a 3 they have to aspire to a 4,5/10 at best but tehy don't listen, they want a 7 and cry because of course that's not happening.

>>33317318
not him but depends on the music

you won't be busting out reggaton moves at the line dancing club, or vice versa. you wouldn't be moshing and slam dancing at some trance EDM club for hippies nor would you be doing your yoga-inspired vibeout chakra dance at the metal show.

but generally just to have the developed motor skills, cardio, and confidence to at least put your hands up and jump at a concert, when the guy on stage tell you when to put your hands up and jump at some concert

>>33315538 (OP)
How is picrel even statistically possible? There can't be that many lesbos - is it from guys two timing?

>>33318065
and many guys not commiting, just fucking around.
if those statistics are similar in my country it means all the single ones that do have sex in my country are sharing the same girls, lol
I'm gonna start telling them to use condoms with the other guys

>>33315538 (OP)
people don't want to admit women contribute to the birth rate collapse by being shallow hedonists in chad harems but they're going to have to once the government starts to address it

Everything incels say is a lie. You would have to be extremely stupid to believe anything they say. Go outside and you will easily see this yourself.

>>33318171
>chad harems
This is an incel wank fantasy, nothing more. Incels are closeted homosexuals who fantasize about being turned into a girl and part of this harem.

>>33315538 (OP)
>how am I supposed to believe that incels are wrong and deranged when in fact everything they claim is happening in the dating scene is actually becoming true?
Study epistemology and the building of critical thinking. Being right about something happening and being right about WHY it happened are two drastically different things. Incels weasel their way through conversations because they refuse to acknowledge the difference between correlation and causation. Incels are usually correct about WHAT is happening. What they're always wrong about is WHY a thing is happening. They're good at posting discrete statistics and then inserting their own causation into the equation.

>>33315538 (OP)
Can't speak for everything they claim, but they do speak a good part of truth. They can see the rules of the game, but they give up. That's the only difference between a successful cracka and an incel. Everybody is in the same boat, but some accept the rules and the cards they got dealt while trying to do their best and others are offended by those rules and just stop. It in fact is an uphill battle, but so is every aspect of life, now isn't it?

Pls refrain from replying to this post with incel claims. You won't get ahead in life by whining, even if you are right

>>33318212
it seems more like thats your fantasy

>>33317334
>but generally just to have the developed motor skills
oh ok awesome so just another thing I'll never get to do because of being born autistic. thanks for the explanation

>>33318211
it requires critical thinking, go outside isn't an argument

>>33318379
>accepts the deterministic aspects of reproduction
>doesn't want to admit incels were right

i expect to see way more of that

>>33318783
thing is incels are using reductionism and simplifying very complex social and biological interactions into very narrow concepts and applying that wich happens to a handful of people to mass swaths of people.
incels are still a very small minority of ugly guys trying to cope with being ugly but they think larger trends include them somehow.
their grandparents had incels in their generation but they were isolated and went away to live in solitude or became alcoholics and died young, became sailors or shepperds, etc, this is not something new
not commiting to relationships and people preferring sex and relationships being more casual is new but that doesn't create a new class of unfuckable people, they've always existed, that's just society works.
Incels are trying to bundle them being genetical dead ends to the rest of society going through some changes.

>>33318065
Because the statistic is “who say they’re single”

>>33318801
>63% of men aged 18-29, being single, is a small number

>>33318834
>incels
>being single
nta but you're an actual retard anon

>>33315538 (OP)
You're supposed to realise that "incel ideology" is multifaceted. Anyone who's not a mouth drooling retard will know it can be broken down into:
1) The statistics
2) The extrapolations of motivations
3) How this determines your dating life, aka what you can do.

1) is true. 2) is completely retarded and subject to confirmation bias from viewing the most chimped out and retarded samples of women. 3 is where the incels have gone wrong.

Normies who try to poo poo incels and write them off period are brainlets because 1 is undeniable objectively, so they don't address it at all and try to gaslight you. See >>33316860 and >>33317145 and >>33318211

However, just because incels are right about the observed phenomenon doesn't mean they're right about 2) and 3). We naturally see the most extreme cases of women because they are the extreme. Normal women having normal views on dating don't make for exciting content. Even if it was only 50:50 retarded shallow idiots versus normal women, that's still not the dystopia the incels are painting from the stats.
3 is where the incel ideology and manifest breaks down completely because this is a self fulfilling thing. See >>33316887
If you don't think you can, you don't, because unironically EVERYONE can smell that you're a self pitying retarded faggot. You unironically have to realise that yeah, the stats say things are bad, but that's not the whole story, and you can still meet the right person.

Following on from >>33319282, going to hopepill you niggers about the diagram in >>33315538 (OP).

Several things of note:
1) Women define themselves as being in relationships more easily than men. E.g. a girl who went one 2 dates with a guy over 3-6 months will say she's not single. The same guy she's "dating" considers himself very single because he doesn't see it as a romantic relationship until they've made it official. I've seen this in real life because I actually have mixed groups of friends.
2) Women are marginally more Les/Bi than men. This is true. However, anyone who's pushing this as a minor factor is a retard who can't do maths because all studies equate this to max, 3-5% of the population or so.
3) Women dating up for that age bracket (18 - 29). You have a bunch of women aged 27-29 dating men who are 30-32+. Average relationship age gap is 2 years in the West. That's another chunk of women gone. Men on the younger side of this bracket can't do that with the group younger than this because of obvious reasons.

While these factors do not account for the differential 90% more men than women being single and this being a real problem, but it does close the gap and disprove that isn't quite "every 8/10 and above chad has 2-4 girls he's railing". Sure that exists, but it's not the whole reason why most men are single.

I have two gfs, we all live together. Its just easier to have an extra income.

>>33315538 (OP)
having lesser men weeded out of the gene pool is normal and a good thing
we're going back to normal

>>33316990
I have a full head of hair and a normal chin, jaw, am tall and fit. It's still very hard, I have to jump through hoops to get laid and gf isn't even an option

>>33319447
That is not at all what is happening, moron.

>>33315538 (OP)
>when in fact everything they claim is happening in the dating scene is actually becoming true? I would like you to encourage or motivate me not to believe this.

Okay. Here’s what’s happening:

incels make an observation. The observation is true.

They then make an inference. The inference is usually dog shit, full of holes, and riddled with neuroticism.

You then believe their inference easily only because the observation held true. Like a trojan horse, you accept the horse, but you neglect to notice the misery packed inside the ideology.

Just accept the observation - women typically rely on relationships more than men. It's true, it's true today, it was true yesterday, its been true for thousands of years, even hundreds of thousands.

Women are weaker and more vulnerable and require constant companionship to feel safe. Who knew. Whereas men don’t require it and don’t feel unsafe or at risk when single, and are therefore not as motivated at getting a relationship as women. Mystery solved.

And yes I know theres a fuckton if depressed loner guys who are arguably wanting love just as much as any woman or even more so. But keyword: motivated. They arent as motivated to go and get one. If they were, they’d have one. But they don’t. Because they got zero motivation.

There is no oppression happening against men or women in dating. Whats happening is there are elss reasons to form nuclear families now. And men are the most likely to follow that lack of reason and quit trying to date. Even if they mask it in depression, its the same shit, they dont try.

Women are always gonna require protection, because they are weak as shit.

>>33315538 (OP)
Incels are right about everything, but I will say after giving up on dating women I've ironically gotten more female attention. Basically take the MGTOW pill and focus on things you can improve in your life, and because women are retarded they'll want you more.

>>33315538 (OP)
The dating scene is definitely bad. That said, you’re not interpreting this data correctly. For one, you say incels but this chat is men who are single, not men who say they are not having sex. That’s very different, especially in modern times.

Another point, you assume the women who are not single are all dating the same younger men. But it’s possible (and likely) that some of these the women are just dating older men (who would not be part of the graph.)

So the statistic may not say exactly believe that it is. More broadly, I’d say that the issues young men have with finding girlfriends are nuanced, they’re not all insurmountable. I think part of this problem that is under discussed is what media overconsumption does to young men. Like back in the day, you would play sports, hang out with your friends, go hiking, etc. And that would build your social skills and build your body and make you more attractive. These days a lot of men just play video games all day and are under socialized and under physically developed and while you might not realize it, that will make you extremely unattractive. Some men, may have the genetic blessings to overcome that, but it’s a pretty small minority. Anyway, if your life has obvious glaring deficiencies, you really should be focusing on that anyway. Pussy is actually a distraction or escape.

>>33317287
>I wish that I was born a thousand years ago
>I wish that I'd sail the darkened seas

hurts. i just wasn't made for these times.

>>33318230
trvthke. you always see them post the same cherry-picked retarded statistics and articles to confirm their biases.

>>33319847
maybe they prefer dudes with drive and goals instead of self pitying faggots who base their existence on getting their noodle wet

>>33319855
>Like back in the day, you would play sports, hang out with your friends, go hiking, etc. And that would build your social skills and build your body and make you more attractive. These days a lot of men just play video games all day and are under socialized and under physically developed and while you might not realize it, that will make you extremely unattractive.
I agree with this. It's old people's fault though. Most gyms are filled with karens who will scream at you if you look at them wrong because old people insisted gyms be "inclusive" to women (when gyms are obviously intended to be male fitness clubs). No male clubs generally exist because all of have been coopted by feminism.

Best advice still is to get some basic workout crap (a kettle bell is really all you need but some rope is good too) and do workouts at home. Build social skills by just deciding you're gonna practice tard wrangling karens when you go out places.

>>33315538 (OP)
They will defame incels, even after the government is forced to confront the issue.

You can't import infinity third-worlders to replace the citizens, when the same shit is happening to them. No one's birth rate is high.

Ironicaly the magnitude of third-worlders being affected is higher than the citizens. The citizens have developed some minor resistances just from longer exposure, if not direct personality differences.

>>33316990
Fuck off

>>33315538 (OP)
Do you think its only the horrifying variable you're imagining is the cause?
Or do you think its a nuanced multivariable issue with a thousand causes and answers that vary person to person..

And above all:
So you think its more likely covid transformed attraction? Or do you think people became a lot less social?

Cause I gotta tell you man, all this incel rhetoric has existed for at least 20 years, I know because thats when I arrived here and I used to be incellish myself.
But they always made up some impossible barriers then blamed some current social trend and always, always, always acted like it was fine 5 years ago and they just missed the boat.

And then we had a huge global event that caused people to become a lot more shut in which is GOING to have an impact, and of course incels are going to look at raw numbers and not try to find context or reason, just scream they were right.

The only consistent thing that's happened thats lead to worse and worse dating outcomes is people spending more and more time online and not out interacting with people in the real world. Women aren't going to come to your house and ask about your interests, nor are they going to have much interest in you if youre just words behind a keyboard.

>>33319282
>>33319308
That was good. Unfortunately, you're still probably not going to get through to most of them.

>>33317164
>I haven't left my house in 5 months
Well there's your problem, now I'm not saying that going outside will magically get you puss but not going outside and worrying about women is a big part of that. kinda mental illness core, do you expect them to materialise in front of you

>>33321708
>do you expect them to materialise in front of you
That is the general thrust of every post bitching on here, yes.

>everything they claim is happening in the dating scene is actually becoming true?
You mean your experience sucks? The modern dating scene is an experiment never tried before in history. In fact, most of modernity is new. Expect a change in the ant population when the sugar cubes get moved around.

>>33319994
But that's kind of dumb isn't it? A fish in the hand is worth more than two in the barrel. If I don't care about dating a chick right now I'm not going to ask you out no matter how many times you sit next to me, but if I'm lonely and desperate I will.
>who base their existence on getting their noodle wet
Never said that. I suppose "incel" does imply that, but I think most everyone who's an incel doesn't want random sex: they want companionship and some sex.

>>33316887
Hah!
>>33319282
Makes some sense but kinda long-winded and nobody cares about the feelings of others anymore.