I’m slipping into misanthropy more and more.

I only ever wanted to love people and be loved in turn. To be desired in other words. Lots of terrible things happened when I was younger and I always felt the only cure would have been to be loved by someone.

But I realise now that I’m an adult that I am only valued on my non existent looks and money. People in the end don’t care about anything else.

So I can’t help but feel I was disqualified from love simply due to the circumstances of my birth (unattractive, low income and traumatised) by a cruel and superficial species.

Is there any way to see the world differently?

>>33348267 (OP)

I normally don't reply to these but I felt this was sincere, so I'll give it a shot because you seem like you've reflected on life a bit.

>But I realise now that I’m an adult that I am only valued on my non existent looks and money. People in the end don’t care about anything else.

I'd say this is true of most younger people, not all. True artists, philosophers and old hippies aren't usually like that. Eccentric people aren't typically like that. Social media, porn, has made everything about looks, everyone want to be famous because they're attractive but the truth is those people often don't have anything else going for them.

If you read old novels, you can see how the values have changed. I'm not a Christian but I appreciate the values back then. Not to be vain, to be focused on the goodness in your heart, in your own character. The problem is a lot of people here are indeed vain, they want a perfect looking partner to elevate their status. It has nothing to do about character or real love. Modern culture is the opposite of goodness but people prefer the sensual, carnal pleasures more than the higher pursuits of the mind and soul.

Stop this nonsense rambling for a second and ask yourself:
For what reason I could love a woman?

and

why would someone love me?

Then you'll realize you could only love an attractive, young, bredable, caring women, but as an expendable evolution discard you are, she could not love you and that's all.

>>33348267 (OP)
>I always felt the only cure would have been to be loved by someone.

So did I, man. I also came from a fucked up childhood too. Seen lots of shit a kid shouldn’t have had to see or experience. Grew up way too fast, emotionally. Meant I felt alone among other kids my own age, felt like an outsider. Like an adult in a kid’s body. Then my body grew, but inside I was still stuck, meant I couldnt grow alongside other adults emotionally. Too big for childhood, too small for adulthood on the inside. Weird inbetween.

So, like you, I thought love would fix everything. Getting someone to love me. Didn’t work bro. But its not the wrong tree you’re barking up. Love is where the healing resides. You’re not mistaken.

But its not from being loved by others. Its by loving others, truly and honestly without expectation of return. That’s where you get to say you have healed.

Before then, you gotta confront pain. You got lots of bullets in your soul. Lots of them. Before then wounds heal, you gotta dig those bullets out of your spirit. Its painful. Means using your memory as the knife. Going back to hell to find the way through and out of it. Confronting and accepting trauma basically, no longer fighting it, accepting it. Letting the pain crack and flood in you. Seeping the poison out. Then and only then can you heal.

You’ll get there. Life has a way of dragging you through this process without your full intent. You’ll see.

>>33348955
>True artists, philosophers and old hippies
They're distracting themselves to cope with their activities of choice. Take away their easel, book, and drugs and you will quickly see them snap back to the default which is survival of the fittest in an unfair universe

So in a sense yes it's possible to see the world differently if you buy into your own flavor of bullshit but you'd also be a huge liar

>>33349043
Simple but true. They all want beautiful models, (ie who look fertile) but hate that the same criteria being applied to them. It's not ever really about love to them, they want to be desired by a physically attractive person, how hypocritical is that?

"The sad truth is that all men want a beautiful woman, and the uglier the man, the greater the want" - David Henry Hwang, M Butterfly

>>33349168
Actually, the people I knew like that weren't perfect, no one is, but they open to the world, non - judgmental and loving. People enjoyed what they had to say, they enjoyed their company because they respected others and didn't look at everyone. That's something you might understand when you're older, maybe not... doesn't matter what you think as I've known good people like that. Your false negative beliefs aren't my reality.

>>33349169
nta But I disagree with both that anon and you. What’s happening here is called self-sabotage.

>Perceive all women as being shallow, vapid, hypocritical, petulant, evil, cruel, whatever.
>End up not finding love
>Wonder why

Because its insanity to date something you deem as big bad and cruel. You’d have to be insane to do that. So, you dont date or pursue dating or getting to know them. Then you wonder why they aint dating you.

Let me ask you this: Would you date a female who you saw talking shit about all males as bitterly as you said of women? Chances are no. So then ask: Why would any woman want to date a man who hates them?

>>33349179
>Your false negative beliefs aren't my reality.
>La la la I can't hear you
Par for the course when confronted with reality. Keep the cope train going. Maybe one day you will see the light (darkness)

>>33349179
>didn't look down*

i.e. cup is half-full type of people, life is exciting, lots to learn about nature and love, etc
I suppose you've never met anyone like that or you're just miserable.

>>33349183
>see the light (darkness)
Lmao. Thats not only edgy cringe but also stupid. Only the blind see darkness. So stay blinded.

>>33349183
You don't know me, what I've experienced. You also don't know what those people experienced. Many have seen death, destruction, war, disease.

If you want to be miserable, fine, be that way, but not everyone is. Some people have overcome their demons. It doesn't appear you have, or you'd know that, you'd have that wisdom.

lalala we chose life, love and peace, unlike you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBumgq5yVrA&list=RDRBumgq5yVrA&start_radio=1

>>33349191
>Nooo you're edgy
Good one.

>>33349198
>lalala we chose life, love and peace, unlike you.
You didn't choose which universe you were born in. If you refuse to see what's right in front of you that's your decision to take the route of the blind because you can't deal with life on its own terms. The worst is denying it. At least use the last bit of integrity you have left (if any) to admit to it. Cypher from the Matrix was a bad guy but even he was honest about it.

>>33348955
I appreciate the response first of all.

Secondly having read a lot of old books I understand what you’re saying and I need to clarify that my belief that I’d need to be attractive/wealthy does not stem from a belief that’s all that humans fundamentally care about but that the current society and world I live in is shaped in a way that’s all that matters. Growing up reading a lot of old books and watch a lot of old movies is the reason I believed that a loving complex relationship could take place as long as I didn’t give up on life, but over the years the truth that our society no longer cares about personal struggle or emotions and only about external possession even possessions people didn’t struggle for (like generational wealth or good genetics) dawned on me.

>>33349043
I feel like you completely miss read my post, I never said that I want a wealthy or attractive woman. In fact most girls I’ve ever been interested in where either not in line with beauty standards, came from similar struggling upbringings or were infertile/less fertile (I’ve had a lot of crushes on older women since they’re usually more emotionally mature).

All I want is kindness and love, all I wanted to give was kindness and love. But you’re right on the money that it’s not an emotional game but rather an evolutionary game.
>>33349156
I hope you’re right on the last part.

But loving people didn’t heal me, in the wake of a very brutal event in my life when I was 13 that was all I did. I wanted to be kind and I was altruistic to an almost ridiculous level where I would always go out of my way even at my own detriment to help or support others. But I was still just rejected by everyone around me, I keep trying to be kind to people even as more things piled on top of me and I felt more and more hollow by the constant rejection. Somewhere around 16 I couldn’t keep it up and more and turned to alcohol, stress and coping is all kindness really brought me.

>>33349217
>You didn't choose which universe you were born in.

So tell me your sob pity-party story, since you seem to feel sorry for yourself. I've been raped, physically abused, raised by severely mentally ill, extremely abusive neglectful parents, etc. I feel into depression, did a lot drugs and alcohol then I decided I want to live. Really live, so I did.

No one chose to born. No one chose to be born into the family they were born into but mature, mentally healthy adults don't label people they don't even know (like artists, hippies, philosophers). You sound absolutely miserable, you aren't happy and won't be if you continue to see only darkness in the world. There is both, then there is something above that even.

>>33349229
>I wanted to be kind and I was altruistic to an almost ridiculous level where I would always go out of my way even at my own detriment.

Yeah thats where you got off trail, brotha. It’s where I fucked up too. I was a people-pleaser, a Mr Nice Guy. I know what you mean about trying to be altruistic to an almost ridiculous level.

You fell for and lived by the golden rule, right? “Treat others how you want to be treated.” etc. You wanted the opposite of what killed your innocence. You were super nice. You didn’t get it in return, and it ate at you, right?

For some reason it never worked?

Its because it didnt work. Cuz you werent being loving or kind. You were being scared and ‘nice’.

That isnt me telling you that you were bad, or evil, or hateful, or fake. What I am saying is you were chasing ghosts. Those ghosts would be ideals. Or, fears. See when you get into the Nice Guy mode, its not out if love. Its out of fear. Fear of judgement, confrontation, escalation, fear of Hell repeating itself.

So you be ‘nice’ to constantly make sure nothing can ever ignite into anything resembling bad or potentially emotionally damaging.

Its not out of love for the other. Its out of fear. Both of others, and even of yourself at times. Nice guy mode becomes more and more necessary and dug into your psyche the more anger and bitterness builds up inside. You end up clinging to it out of fear of what you could possibly become if you let go and gave into anger. A fear of becoming the monster who hurt you.

So what im saying is, you may wanna rethink if you loved before. It might sound horrible to consider that you had not loved before, but its good news. It means you have yet to find the real deal. It’s out there. Still within you to go and experience.

It means there still exists hope.

>>33349252
So you had a shitty life and your response was to fill your head with severe distortions of reality instead of admitting it's actually a terrible world. You are not only a liar but a traitor to the past you that had to endure those things. It's those points of view that enable shitty things to continue and happen to other people as well. I'm sorry about your life but also pretty disappointed that you chose to take the route of denial in the end. I don't really blame you though because it's the easier way out and not everyone is equipped to face life without Disney filters. Good luck.

>>33349229
>but over the years the truth that our society no longer cares about personal struggle or emotions and only about external possession even possessions people didn’t struggle for (like generational wealth or good genetics) dawned on me.

Yeah, I feel your pain there. It's like society today is everything unwholesome, it's against everything I believe in, It seems I'm a relic of the past (even before I was born). People don't value what is true and wholesome anymore.

I never used to watch much TV, get into the drama of what's out there on social media but I know it's fueled by narcissism and controlling, horny men. Everything is disposable... people/flesh, children are accessories that some selfish women make money off of on youtube. One woman just killed her baby, leaving him in the heat, in a car, while getting lip filler. That is today's culture. It's horribly violent out there too because society is sick. It's all a sickness.

To say we need God, is a cop out. Society needs to take a moral stand for future generations. Not a fake one either, a genuine one with compassion and understanding. 4chan is contributing to the rot of culture.

You just have to hold on dearly to anything that makes you happy, find your own true worth. A friend gave me a quote, the other day, that just rang true.
Something along the lines of... true love isn't something to be sought externally, but rather something to be found within by removing the barriers we've built against it.

>>33349284
>with severe distortions of reality instead of admitting it's actually a terrible world.

That's one way of looking at life. Tell me, does that serve you well, are you happy?

I love nature. I find it fascinating, miraculous. I love looking at the stars and feeling the vast universe, I love children laughing and playing without a care in the world. I love the adorable birds that come to me, the bobcats frolicking in the landscape fabric in my backyard.

Maybe you if you stopped sitting in front of a computer, or on your phone, trolling, being hateful and trying to bring everyone else down, you might find happiness too. You simply want to feel sorry for yourself and wallow in self-pity, Just please kill yourself if you hate life that much. At the very least stfu, you have nothing to offer anyone at all. You're the disease.

>>33349371
>happiness as a virtue or yardstick for truth
Yike

>>33349169
I would have killed for an unattractive girl who was kind and understanding to me. People like you are why I am a misanthrope because you constantly reinforce this idea that people are cruel and vain until it’s become true.
>>33349180
You’re right that I’m self sabotaging but it’s not voluntary. I would like to believe better of the world and to stop being bitter but if the actual reality is that I’m scorned and rejected despite my best efforts to be as good of a version of myself as possible then how would I not feel that I’ve been disqualified at birth by a cruel and uncaring world?

I’m paralysed in this belief because no matter how much I try to escape it I’m proven right over and over every day with people worshiping appearance and money and scorning the unfortunate at every turn.

Take one look at how the rich walk past the hobos in the street or how unattractive people are treated compared to attractive people in all social contexts and this truth that money and appearance determine your worth in the eyes of others is proven time and time and time again.
>>33349265
I agree and don’t agree with this assessment at the same time.

I don’t really know how to put it into words but I felt that after what I’d gone through i wanted to just be a good person, to make life after that worth something. I did truly want to love people but I suppose I didn’t really know how to so I ended up just being a people pleaser as you put it.

I wasn’t really afraid of anything so much as I was unable to understand what to do after what had happened to me so I just tried to be the closest approximation of what I understood as goodness. But I guess I also at the same time had no real reference for loving others or being kind so I just tried to do what I could which ended up just being a “people pleaser”.

I still have no concept of how to truly love people in any other way than to try and help them or be there for them.

>>33349342
>To say we need God, is a cop out.

Nta but I just wanna say, everything you observe in modernity that you feel is unwhole and soulless and wicked. You say needing God is a cop out.

But you don't think it's a coincidence that all that degenerate and narcissistic shit on the rise just so happened to erupt at the same time the modern world became more and more secular?

Connect the dots brotha. We got into this mess precisely because we replaced divinity or higher powers as being central to truth. We instead, did the narcissistic act of placing ourselves as the center of truth.

Man made himself the measure of all things. 'love yourself', finding it all within, is narcissism. It means to become self interested. Using only your happiness as the metric for what is 'good'.

This is the real cancer. Because guess what happens when people take that seriously and act it out? They leave their babies in hot stuffy cars to drown in heat and die to go live their best life and get that new lip filler. Hedonism is where it gets you.

We have fucked ourselves by clinging to 'individualism' as an opiate. Because it sounded empowering. When really, it means to be divided. That's how you get conquered.

>>33349398

Truth is truth. Your perception of the world being a terrible place, is your truth. That isn't everyone else's perception. You chose to be miserable, to be hateful so really, there is no help for you. Be miserable, kill yourself. I certainly don't care about an asshole like yourself, why would I? If you kill yourself, just don't leave a mess for the good people of the world, to clean up. Thanks.

You are full of envy and, and is destroying you.
All your mental gymnastics will not save you.

>>33349425
Not my truth sir, the truth period. It's kind of ridiculous that in the age of maximum information availability I have to go around instructing people like its a gospel on how to use their eyes and exercise critical thinking that you don't need more than 60 IQ for. But here we are. Also lmao @ your projection of heckin wholesomeness and instantly flipping to telling people to kill themselves when they call your bullshit out. Not that it's surprising though, it plays out in this exact way every time. You were given intelligence for a reason, you should use it. If you love being raped, beaten, and abandoned and then being okay with it happening to others I'm not sure what to say. Maybe you yourself are the evil boogieman you're looking for, anon. Try self awareness for a second

>>33349399
>I would have killed for an unattractive girl who was kind and understanding to me. People like you are why I am a misanthrope because you constantly reinforce this idea that people are cruel and vain until it’s become true.


I think maybe people are cruel and vain but there are good people too. People that are better than both of us. Take care, sorry if you felt misunderstood but this is where you are (4chan)... in the land of psychopathic (not autistic) ugly misogynists that despise women for hurting their feefees by rejecting them. There must be a reason you're here.

>>33349450
tldr your boring bullshit. Keep crying about your life, like a child. idc

>>33349399
>I still have no concept of how to truly love people in any other way than to try and help them or be there for them.

That's the paradoxically easy yet also hard but about actual real love. Love is a choice, that's all. People think it's happiness, or some dreamy fireworks explosion of attraction or admiration. Feelings is what people mistake love for. Love isn't a feeling at all. It's just a choice, an action. A choice that, yes, will have feelings come out of it as a consequence. But those feelings can be positive and negative. Love and it's consequences is a much pain as it is pleasure.

The problem with people pleasers: They only expect or only desire or only care for the positive feelings. Moreover, they only see it as a feeling, rarely a choice. And if they choose to keep loving, they don't actually feel it as a choice, just a compulsion to keep being useful or to keep placating and fawning after others.

You say you naturally went down the path of chasing goodness and to be good in defiance of what happened to you. So did I.

But I deluded myself it was of my own choice. It wasn't. How could it be? It was born out of an aversion to run away from shit that happened that I had no choice in. So it follows: All of the love I gave back then was not freely chosen. And if it is not chosen freely without corruption of the mind or heart, then it's not love. Just an idealized pale imitation.

Did you truly feel it was a choice to help and support others? Or did it feel like a compulsion?

>>33349466
Damn gg. If it makes you feel any better I haven't lost a debate on this topic yet

>>33349404
I agree and I know God but those more evolved, in the past, were co-creators with God. We all have that element. Religion is shit, coercive, demonizing, polarizing... it causes wars. Spirituality (mysticism) is real, wholesome, peaceful and brings all beings together from any tradition. It's not punitive, it's inspiring, accepting and loving. i.e. I don't need threats of hell to be a good person, I don't need laws to be respectful and do the right thing.

>>33349479
In your limited, warped perspective you are a troll god on 4chan! In your real life, a miserable loser.

>>33349486
Spirituality is the same thing as religion, you just slap a different label on it to make it seem otherwise so as not to seem dogmatic or whatever. But the groundwork its built on is a carbon copy sadly. That's why you have these new agers running around that are honestly even crazier than Muslims which is a real feat

>>33349494
No they aren't crazier than Muslims, they don't explode people. They also don't bomb abortion clinics. You hate what you don't understand, agree to disagree. Bye.

>>33349486
>Those more evolved
>In the past
One would think evolution implies advancing of time. If evolving of ideas is what you seek, then by that merit, where we are today is better than the old. (I don't think time matters I'm just playing devil's advocate).

>Religion is shit, coercive, demonizing, polarizing.

No, man is. Does it surprise you that man turns even ideas and doctrines into weapons? A human enters politics what happens? Demonizes, coerces, polarizes. Gets into academics. Does the same. Gets into religion, does the same.

Religion is immaterial. It cannot pull triggers or drop bombs. Man can though, man and his two hands.

>Spirituality (mysticism)
Has glaring faults too. Most notably would be the existence of any cults. Look into any major cult in the past century, ones that promoted suicide or murder. You'll notice their funny pseudo-gnostic leaders all have one thing in common: they all disavowed religion.

>I don't need threats of hell
They're not threats, they are promises. The same way I promise someone that if they walk onto a track track, they will eventually be hit by a train. Hell is chosen, not imposed.

Surely you understand this much? If we drink poison, and breathe poison, and spit poison, eventually we perish. Same is true if one chooses Hell in this life, when they die, that's exactly where they go. They chose that.

>>33349500
>they don't explode people
Worse, they explode desperate people's minds

>>33349458
I just hate how you missed the entire point of my original post and accused me of being lonely because I only go for models when in reality all I ever wanted was a girl who was kind and understanding. I don’t care how people look I just want someone to for once in this life tell me something kind and hold me and I know it’s impossible and I know it’s too late because I’m no longer a child and I’m valued on my looks and money now like a commodity and not a person then I’m accused of perpetuating the system that’s driving me insane.
>>33349470
I suppose you’re right, it was a compulsion. But I’ve never known a choice to love others freely. I just can’t bring myself to not help others or try and be kind since otherwise I’ll just end up doubly miserable for suffering myself and not atleast trying to alleviate the suffering of others.

I’m just so tired, it feels like my mind is just atrophying apart. It feels like everything is too late now because I’m an adult, I don’t know how to love voluntarily and I’ve never been loved. I just keep struggling every single day trying to work, trying to study so I’ll eventually be good enough in the eyes of someone.

I have no idea what to do anymore if I’m being honest, it just feels like I’m spiralling so rapidly at this point that I’ll probably end it soon.

>>33349587
>I’m just so tired, it feels like my mind is just atrophying apart. It feels like everything is too late now because I’m an adult, I don’t know how to love voluntarily and I’ve never been loved. I just keep struggling every single day trying to work, trying to study so I’ll eventually be good enough in the eyes of someone.

You do know how to love voluntarily. Everyone does. It’s just sometimes, life kicks the ability out of us. But we all start out loving purely and freely. It’s just a matter of re-learning it. Remembering it even. It really is a simple and pure choice, honestly. You can choose it at any time, during any feeling, or any rumination. You could feel shit and still choose it, or feel suicidal and still choose it.

Think about it clearly. Ask yourself: “Is there a law written anywhere in the Universe that says ‘You are NOT allowed to choose to love something/someone while feeling miserable at the same time?”

Have a long think about that. Can a human choose to love someone or something even if they feel bad or resentful towards that thing or person (even themselves)?

If not, why not? What boundary or force exists in reality that prevents it? And if there is no identifiable solid reason to prevent you, then isnt it just the craziest thing that people got duped into this phantom problem of believing they cannot choose love even if they feel shit? Aint that some crazy shit? Theres nothing preventing the insane idea of choosing to love while feeling bad. Nothing at all. You can love with a frown in your face.

You can even choose to forgive yourself and choose love for yourself while being angry or mad at yourself at the same time. Choosing it wont erase the bad feelings. Because love is a choice, not a feeling. Instead you love yourself by allowing the bad feelings on purpose, giving yourself permission to feel bad without condemning yourself.

Like allowing failure but without identifying >as< a failure, you get me?