I think I have come to the realization that women hate men who like to give oral sex.
first is nice for everyone involved, she gets stimulation form something more dexterous than a dick, he gets all the nice intimacy of her most private place. she gets his full attention, he get to be the subject and object of her pleasure. both get to enjoy the heavy symbolic action of one person doing something "submissive" (not like BDSM, just one sided service)

I think its that last point that hangs women up, they hate submissive actions by men. they will go on about how they want a man to be obsessed with them but as soon as rubber hits the road they would rather have sex that simulates abuse than idealization. I can't wrap my head around why is the problem.

am I wrong, missing something or schizo?

>>33360200 (OP)
What? Maybe if she's like smashing his head in her lap he could be the submissive one. Otherwise, you're laying there and kind of have everything on display

>>33360200 (OP)
Maybe the women you've been with. Different women certainly like different things, though there are some that most seem to really like. I've never considered it submissive, so maybe I just didn't do it submissively. Yeah, women generally hate submissive men, and not without reason. Submissiveness is averse to what it means to be a man in a sense, so it kind of makes you at least appear useless.

>>33360228
Thats why I said submissive not in the loaded why it's usually used around sex now. Submissive as in its a one-sided act. ( It isn't, it's fucking awesome) But the act is like foot washing it has a natural symbolic value of submissiveness that reads in the brains of women I have been around as unsexy.
It's not universal obviously, but some see volunteering it egerly as bitch made.

>>33360200 (OP)
i basically only hang out with bi women so might be biased but they love men being submissive.

im not particularly a fan of people giving oral tho, i came to it once. very hot.
usually i find more pleasure in sucking dick, i get wet lol

>>33360240
This is why I think it's all to do with symbolism. At the base it's just fun for everyone. As soon as that little wedge gets in her mind that it's a sign of weakness it's no longer fun for her.

It's dumb because it's like being pissed they didn't check your hight for a water slide...

>>33360248
Hook an anon up.
It's just the best act in my book.
You and I though could not be friends, as a man I do not want my dick sucked.
I find my own dick to be gross and the face of any girl I like should not interact with something that is gross.
I could not cum to it myself.

>>33360248
>they love men being submissive
Nah, don't buy it. It's kind of like a hobby, treating men like pets. I've been with girls that claimed they liked submissive men, but it's more just an ego/insecurity thing, or in some cases a defense mechanism. Easily broken with teasing and a little sexual aggression.

>>33360248
>>33360268
You know, now that I'm on the topic, a good parallel is the little dog syndrome that you see with some men. When a guy that's like 5'3 is super aggressive and confrontational, everyone immediately knows what's going on. He's compensating; he's insecure. Women do the same thing, but it presents differently. They're the little dog by default, and they've built an entire subculture around it. Personally I find it kind of cute. It's a button that's really easy to push.

>>33360268
Not something every one wold want to break. I can only speak for myself but I like when people pour out there insecurities in me.... Never had it in sex but it sounds fun idk if that plays out in the moment.

>>33360275
>I like when people pour out there insecurities in me
Not me, man. Dangerous stuff. Insecure people are unstable, which eventually always becomes boring if it doesn't become tragic. If at all possible, I'd like my relationships (friends, girlfriends, etc.) to grow from the experience of being with me. I'm a fan of emotional maturity - it makes for good relationship dynamics.

>>33360274
Ever notice how built into girls this is and I mean kids... Every little girl says they are a big girl, they hate to be called children or excluded from the adult conversations. Boys don't give a shit they don't know what adults care about and want to play in mud.
I always thought it was a kids thing with girls but now that you point it out I'll bet that is a psychological thing that sticks with them.
And now that I know where it might come from I am too grossed out to exploit it.

>>33360200 (OP)
If she hate you for giving her oral sex, it's 1000% a (((HER))) issue.
You don't hate women for giving you BJs, do you?
Nor do you hate women that peg you if you're into that.
If going down on a woman would make you look less of a man to her than she have several unresolved mental issues.

>>33360242
>But the act is like foot washing it has a natural symbolic value of submissiveness that reads in the brains of women I have been around as unsexy.
I've never ever seen this work that way in real life. Guys that like to give oral sex don't have trouble getting or keeping girlfriends in the way foot guys do

>>33360286
That is fair. I guess I hope that people letting it out becomes a way to work through it.
I have a thing with girls where I'll hyper focus on something about them that they don't consider appealing, something natural.
I tell them that nothing about them is unappealing to me and I can focus on any detail of them. This gets 50/50 results some love the idea some just want you to focus on the things they think you should.

Don't over play it but it's a fun tool sometimes.

>>33360298
I actually won't take a BJ but I'm just not into them.
I get your point though and it's what I am trying to figure out. Girls who like oral sex but get all mental about what it means if you like to give it...

>>33360200 (OP)
Make up for it by choking her and telling her to shut the fuck up while you fuck her after

Or not. I did this and still got the 'nice guy' treatment kek

>>33360311
Checked and keked.
Damn son.

>>33360309
>I actually won't take a BJ but I'm just not into them
GAY
>Girls who like oral sex but get all mental about what it means if you like to give it
There's no meaning.
That's just pleasurable feeling.
Assume you found out your gf has a dildo, would you be mad? Or would you suggest to use it next time you have sex?
If you think you're less of a man if you gf using a dildo, it's an issue with how you frame things.
Same can be said for her for thinking less of you for using something other than your dick do pleasure her.
I swear people are getting stupider and invent new problems for themselves each day.

>>33360322
Not liking your dick sucked is gay.
We are on new frontiers here.

>>33360321
Yeah, she was a confusing af. Showered me with compliments, but made no effort whatsoever. I got played

>>33360200 (OP)
>am I wrong, missing something or schizo?
what you are missing is that not all women are the same.
Most men do not believe me when I say this. I do not understand why.
I would guess there is some truth in your words, but not universal truth

>>33360332
But are you on the side of liking it or not and why? At this point it's data collection.

>>33360200 (OP)
>am I wrong,
Yes.
>missing something
Yes.
>or schizo?
Yes.

>>33360345
i uhh disserved that.

>>33360200 (OP)
There are any number of truly retarded memes constantly circulating on 4chan, but the idea that, if you're having sex with someone, doing something that makes them feel good is necessarily *submissive* - that is the most retarded of the lot. Sex is supposed to feel good for both people. You are supposed to enjoy giving pleasure to your partner, and watching and hearing the effect that it has on them. Being less than 100% selfish is not "submissive".

>>33360200 (OP)
I've always considered going down on a woman to be a very dominant thing. She is the vulnerable one. I am the one fully in control of her body and her mind and pleasure. I feel super fucking powerful when she climaxing and I just keep licking and holding her down until her body literally cannot take it anymore.

I always gone down on my ladies before they go down on me. I don't actively think about it but I suppose this does give me a lot of power in a relationship. I have also never been broken up now that I think about it hmm

I suppose if a guy only wanted to eat out his gf and never had penetrative sex the girl might view it this way, but the overwhelming majority of guys give a girl head either before they are going to cum so they can last longer and stimulate the girl or eating her out after they already came.

Additionally, being able to make a girl orgasm regardless of whether it’s from head, penetration or fingering is likely going to make her view you as more attractive.

I don’t see any good reason why a woman would look down on a guy for giving her head unless he was bad at it.

>>33360477
>don’t see any good reason why a woman would look down on a guy for giving her head unless he was bad at it.
i have literally never encountered a woman who did so in reality

this is some weird kind of pornobrained argument that doesn't exist in the real world

>>33360506
As long as I am not alone I feel better.

>>33360451
This guy gets it.