Let's talk about univeristy and talk about it using facts.
Of all people who attend university less than 65% of them complete a 'four year degree' within 6 years and the average amount of time to get a 4 year degree is 5 1/2 years
>https://nscresearchcenter.org/completing-college/

Men aged 18-29 with only a HS diploma have en unemployment rate of 4.5%
Men in their 20's with a 4 year degree already have an unemployment rate of 8.7%,
>https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bls.gov/news.release/archives/hsgec_04232024.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiUmbPpj8mOAxX24skDHf03B9EQ1fkOegQIABAo&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw138i2RG5QBuHM0eqcIiyUd&ust=1753021419891000

Men under 30 years old with only a HS diploma make about $48k/year on average and men under 30 with a 4 year degree make about $52,000 a year
>https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.uscareerinstitute.edu/blog/how-much-more-high-school-graduates-earn-than-non-graduates&ved=2ahUKEwjVtdqRkcmOAxX34skDHWBRJtoQ1fkOegQIABAN&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw0UhcZZbffSH7eFKKFCBPa2&ust=1753021772856000

The average annual payments for a student loan are $4k/year
>https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/average-student-loan-payment/%23:~:text%3DBachelor%27s%2520degree%252Dholders%2520from%2520for%252Dprofit%2520colleges%2520have%2520higher,of%2520public%2520colleges.Note%2520Reference%2520%255B1%255D%252CNote%2520Reference%2520%255B2%255D;&ved=2ahUKEwjg5sDhkcmOAxXX4ckDHSoBKGQQqYcPegQIABAa&opi=89978449&cd&psig=AOvVaw1VCH94Af8EhEpEmRTDCfqo&ust=1753021940208000

So the choice is an interesting one - do you spend over 5 years getting a degree that pays you about $4k/year more than people who don't have a degree, but need to pay $4k/year for 25 years to pay for the education?
Or do you work those 5+ years, building up a better resume and making money instead of not earning while building debt?

you are assuming that salary growth is the same for both groups by only comparing the salary for low level or entry level positions (the ones that people under 30 tend to work...)
in most fields of work they don't promote people without college degrees. the only exception is eat-what-you-kill type jobs like sales where you pretty much make your own way

Go to uni if you want to learn something they have to teach you. If you go for a job you're doing yourself a disservice because they don't owe you one.

>>33386143
also diploma only people have a 4 year head start on their careers and still make less than college grads

>>33386143
>in most fields of work they don't promote people without college degrees
So you;'re saying that the 64% of adults with no college degree can never be promoted?
lol
You're saying you can't be a Master Plumber or master Electrician without a 4 year degree?
lmao, even
Here's more facts:
25% of people with a four year degree make less than the average person with only a HS diploma
>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-where-graduates-earn-less-than-high-school-grads/
About 33% of degreesproduce degree holders that earn less than the average HS diploma holder, regardless of the university
>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-major-top-and-lowest-earning-majors-impact-on-income-pay/
And skilled trades
>Not "trades' which includes stuff like roofers and framers that make almost nothing and are usually lumped in
earn a fuckton with the average plumber with a HS diploma and a 2 year apprenticeship earning more than the average lawyer when both are in their 40's
Again 'go to uni, you're gonna get a better job' is simply not always true.
And remember - more than 1 in 3 that go to uni never get that degree, anyway

>>33386149
You suck at math.
let's look at two men, Adam and Bob. Both are automatically employed despite the differences in unemployment rates.
Adam turns 18 and get an average HS diploma job and by the age of 35 has worked 17 years with an average total earnings to that age of $850,000.
Bob goes to the average university for the average time and also makes the average wage until age 35 for 11 years of income. In that time he has earned $726,000 - that's only 85% of what Adam made in the same time period
>NOTE: I factored in that the degree holder's average income had gone up by giving him the $66k/year average at age 35 FOR THE ENTIRE TIME HE WAS EMPLOYED but kept Adam's pay at the $50k/year he would be earning at age 25 FOR THE ENTIRE TIME so even giving Adam the low average and Bob the high average Adam still makes more)
After we subtract the student loan payments Bob has to make (he's average, remember?) his actual gross earnings were really $682,000, or only 80% of what Adam made in the same period.
Bob has to be 44-46 years old before he breaks even with Adam ASSUMING Adam only ever earns as much as he did when he was 25 forever. If you switch both to average lifetime earning minus the 5.5 years of school and $100k of student loan payments Bob does not make more total money than Adam until he is 53 years old.

>>33386299
>Again 'go to uni, you're gonna get a better job' is simply not always true.
"Finish uni, get more lifetime earnings" is essentially always true through

>>33386129 (OP)
Some of those figues, most notably the graduation time, come largely from people starting university when they really don't belong there - and thus either dropping out or repeatedly changing majors.
I'm not saying they're not good enough for university, but that too often it is not good enough for them, not able to give them the life preparation they would best get elsewhere.

Universities were invented to serve intellectuals. Over time they evolved to serve as training for certain professions. But there are many, many professions that do not absolutely require a degree, and people who might eventually flourish and succeed in them can get delayed or sidetracked by taking the university route.

>>33386335
this is a very facile analysis. you're making too many assumptions about career earnings
>>33386299
>25% of people with a four year degree make less than the average person with only a HS diploma
so a majority of people with a four year degree make more than the average worker who only has a hs diploma? regardless, comparing a mean with a proportion kind of sus

the 'average' plumber, but how many plumbers or electricians are needed?
and at the end you are making your point weaker by saying that in some cases it might be a bad idea to go to uni, but nobody was ever disputing that

>>33386437
See
>>33386299
25% of people with a four year degree make less than the average person with only a HS diploma
>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-where-graduates-earn-less-than-high-school-grads/
About 33% of degreesproduce degree holders that earn less than the average HS diploma holder, regardless of the university
>https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-major-top-and-lowest-earning-majors-impact-on-income-pay/
Do degree holders ON AVERAGE make more?
Yes.
but that is often because about 30% of degree holders do very, very well, primarily engineers and such
Another 30% of degree holders so worse than HS grads.
so
>"Just go to uni, you'll make more money"
isn't accurate.
You went to Upper Out Falls campus of Landgrant State and got a degree in Music?
You're going to make less than a high school grad your entire life.

>>33386894
>this is a very facile analysis
But accurate nonetheless
>so a majority of people with a four year degree make more than the average worker who only has a hs diploma?
No, and you just proved you can't do math.
about 30% of all degree holder make less than the 'average' HS grad over their entire life.
About another 20% make the same
another 20% make just a little more.
But the top 30% make a LOT more.
You qualified for Georgia tech and you;re getting an Engineering degree in a useful specialty?
If oyu actually finish you will make a lot of money.
You're going to SNHU online to get a degree in Business Analysis?
You'd be better off working in a warehouse. Literally.
>comparing a mean with a proportion kind of sus
Good thing i just described them and didn't compare them, then, huh?
>the 'average' plumber, but how many plumbers or electricians are needed?
According to the BLS and the CoC there are about 1 million plumbing jobs and 1.3 million electrician jobs unfiilled for 3+ years because of a lack of workers.
That's 5.5 times the number of unfilled jobs for Civil or Structural engineers

>>33386894
>at the end you are making your point weaker by saying that in some cases it might be a bad idea to go to uni
My point IS THAT sometimes a uni degree is a bad idea.
How is me making my point making my point weaker?

>>33386129 (OP)
>Let's talk about
I won't read let's have a chat on an advice board threads.

>>33387186
some people don't care about salary
for example, you need a music (or music education) degree if you want to be a music teacher. a music teacher will never be paid much but that person might still have a fulfilling career doing what they love

>>33387186
why do you keep making these extreme contrasts between useful degrees and useless degrees. like you're either at an elite school with a high value degree or you're getting a useless certification from an online college.

Wait you guys only make 48k a year? I net 5600 a month from my job, have all cost of living paid for, healthcare, etc, and pull in $800 a month from stocks. Wtf??

I only have 3 months of compsci as college

NTA
OP
>>33387186
>about 30% of all degree holder make less than the 'average' HS grad over their entire life.
>About another 20% make the same
>another 20% make just a little more.
>But the top 30% make a LOT more.
You
>>33388622
>why do you keep making these extreme contrasts between useful degrees and useless degrees.
Why are you lying about what he said?

>>33388625
Sergeants in the army make about as much as a university graduate, sure, and living in the barracks/base housing is cheap.