I can not cut them off. I need to know how to be around them so I can assert boundaries without seeming mad.

>without seeming mad
why not? anger is natural and can actually help when confronted with too much BS.
when you've had enough, show it

>>33414385 (OP)
More context please. Who are they and why can't you cut them off?

In general you need your own boundaries. Don't do things for them that you don't want to do. Don't initiate or make an effort if you receive nothing in return. Relationships of any sort are about reciprocation. If that's happening - great - if not, it's time to speak up and try to fix things, or simply withdraw and/or remove yourself from the equation.

>>33414409
They thrive off your reaction. They will gaslight me, make me even angrier, then "feel bad" and call later "to see how I am doing", so I need to ignore them, and it just builds up until I draw a line and confront them to let them know I am not mad, but it won't change them, they will have gotten what they wanted which was your reaction and they are going to build their life around it now. They will treat me like an imbecille forever. Devalued, discarded.
Sure, I could cut them out and isolate, build a new life and let them tarnish my reputation forever.
I could do this, absolutely, but it comes at a cost and I rather not be that guy if there is an alternative.

>>33414410
Family
I grew up as the family scapegoat
I wanted to kms from very young age
I solved the dynamic by "fleeing" mentally but this gave me OCD and really ruined my life
I saw a psychiatrist for the OCD and I am slowly opening up emotionally again, but I lost contact with her before I could ask her about what to do moving forward. Getting a new one is too expensive

I could do what I did before, which was to flee mentally, and when they ridicule I am simply not present, which means I give them no response and then I retort with something completely irrelevant which catches them off guard.
But this is not healthy.
If I see them now, I am emotionally open now. I would see them in good faith, ask how they are doing, and then they would drop a confusing comment and shake my trust in them again. I'd feel betrayed and hurt. Then they gaslight. Then they "feel bad and hoover", and it just spirals.
I don't know how I am supposed to be around them.

In a similar vein, when dealing with an avoidant person, is it just best to play their little game and give them space until they come to their senses or is it better to just chase after them and get in their face?

>>33414385 (OP)
Stick to facts, not descriptors.
>I hate you
>It's wrong
>Don't be like that
Avoid that shit.
Tell them to avoid it.
Stick to facts
>You did X
>You wrote Y
>You asked me to do Z

>>33414549
You can't win with an avoidant person. When they aren't avoiding you, it is not about you, it is about how they feel at that particular moment. They aren't considering your effort to make things work with them, in their mind, they think they are finally healthy. That is why they are so happy with you. When mood changes they fear it happening again and avoid to spare both the trouble.

You are dealing with a different person when they are avoiding. You should be indifferent to their behavior and tell them you are available any time they want. When they feel good, they will think about you again.

Remember though, they will view your validation as a sign of them being healthy. They actually do not care about you. The second you slip up and things become difficult, they will blame themselves and avoid you again. You'll feel guilt and hurt, even though it's actually not your fault. It's not worth your time, it is by definition a mentally ill fantasy on both parts, including yours.

>>33414551
They won't accept that. They'll gaslight and deny with everything they've got

>>33414549
>In a similar vein, when dealing with an avoidant person, is it just best to play their little game and give them space until they come to their senses or is it better to just chase after them and get in their face?

It's not a little game. I'm an avoidant-type, I'm not playing games whenever I choose to fuck off somewhere to decompress, I'm choosing to go and chill out and self isolate because that's how I function. Would bot recommend chasing after an avoidant, you'll get told to fuck off, rightly so, because you'd be crushing through their boundaries just to please yourself.

>>33414543
Easy for me to say, but you actually can leave family behind if they treat you like this.

Consider it. Seriously. Why stick around if they treat you this way? You'd be alone, yes, but that's a damn sight better than feeling alone anyway AND constantly treated like shit.

>>33414385 (OP)
Learn how to please people, I can make anyone feel comfortable around me, I know some dark secrets people have because they feel like they can trust me.

In reality I couldn't care less about any of them and If I ever feel the need to get anything from them I have leverage.

Just hit them with the uno reverse card and start to manipulate them, the best part is that 90% of people are unaware they're even being manipulative making it easy to fuck with them.

>>33414585
> Consider it. Seriously. Why stick around if they treat you this way? You'd be alone, yes, but that's a damn sight better than feeling alone anyway AND constantly treated like shit.
Believe me. I've considered it many times. I thought I had finally figured them out (with the OCD technique) but after going through a breakup and being betrayed by them once again in the middle of that, I realize just how futile it is.
At this point, I feel like I'll give it a last shot.

OCD fucked up my previous relationships and I'm currently learning how to feel again. I wonder if there is a way I can keep them in my life or if I really need to block their numbers.

>>33414570
>They actually do not care about you. The second you slip up and things become difficult, they will blame themselves and avoid you again. You'll feel guilt and hurt, even though it's actually not your fault. It's not worth your time, it is by definition a mentally ill fantasy on both parts, including yours.

Bullshit. I care about the people I occasionally 'avoid'. It's not a mentally ill fantasy, it's an emotional limitation that I have. And if you think it's a mentally ill fantasy on both parts, why you encouraging the fantasy by saying shit like
>They do not actually care about you
? That's a fantasy too. My absence is not indicative of how I feel about anyone. It's indicative that I need to take five and enjoy being alone for a bit.

>>33414590
You sound like me last year anon.

Thing I learned is that it is not worth your time. You can manipulate people all the way, but the moment you actually need help, no one can help you. You won't even know what you need beyond the game you played.
You don't feel anything and I learned the hard way how debilitating that can be when it becomes bad.
I prefer to know how to process emotions than expertly suppress them. Humans are meant to feel. When it gets tough, you might want to kys over a tiny emotion you couldn't properly suppress.

>>33414603
>It's indicative that I need to take five and enjoy being alone for a bit.
Why?

>>33414617
Don't compare me to you.
>but the moment you actually need help, no one can help you.
Doesn't apply to me, I have a strong foundation I can fall back on whenever needed.
>You won't even know what you need beyond the game you played.
Yes I do, mainly because I'm not stupid.
>You don't feel anything and I learned the hard way how debilitating that can be when it becomes bad.
What a retarded statement to make based of limited information.
>I prefer to know how to process emotions than expertly suppress them.
I don't suppress my emotions.

Stop trying to project on to me you subhuman tard.

>>33414637
>So many words
The lack of critical insight is sign enough of your low IQ
At my "best" I would've agreed with anyone who gave caution. I would never pretend to be as self-assured as you.
You're not even self-aware enough to admit you are on /adv/, Mr "perfectly operatable".

>>33414624
>Why?
Because I grew up in a suffocatingly codependent and abusive family. Privacy and boundaries was something I never had growing up. So in adulthood, whenever I am with people, eventually I feel a pressure build up, where I feel drained and penned in, and I crave to go and be alone for a while. It's nothing personal, it's just how I cope.

What's baffling to me though is how people call it manipulative to have boundaries or want time for oneself. Some weasely anxious type of person who plugs their ears like a child and cries "but what about me what about me" and guilt trips while trampling over boundaries like an entitled shit.

Then when you tell them to back the fuck off, they whimper and whine and claim you are the manipulator and that because you dared to have boundaries it somehow means you don't care about their boundaries. Even though they are the ones whose 'boundaries' are a fucking vacuum that devours everyone else's around them. Insanity.

>>33414570
>They won't accept that.
Accept what? Your descriptors? Like, "you hurt me because X, Y, Z"?
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Just stick to what you want them to do. "Give me X", "Stop doing Y". Don't talk about feelings. They don't understand them. Keep it very mechanical.
>They'll gaslight and deny with everything they've got
Oh yeah, that's true. But who cares about that. You don't try to convince them. Approach them with kindness and don't try to talk about feelings. If they get riled up, it means you are going in the wrong direction. Get back on track and talk about raw facts, not what consequences these facts have in your emotional space.

>>33414663
>You don't try to convince them
You don't have to try to convince them

>>33414648
Whatever helps you cope with your own problems, you're still projecting them on to me for some reason.

>You're not even self-aware enough to admit you are on /adv/, Mr "perfectly operatable".
Projecting
>At my "best" I would've agreed with anyone who gave caution.
Because you're stupid. Your "best" is my worst, we're not in the same category of people.
>So many words
>The lack of critical insight is sign enough of your low IQ
Projecting

Again you're projecting, you also think I’m on /adv/ to receive advice, you make a lot of assumptions for no reason.

>>33414661
>What's baffling to me though is how people call it manipulative to have boundaries or want time for oneself.
No one has said that. You do know you are AVOIDANT, not someone who wants some lone time? Avoidant means you avoid. Adults can hop in their car and drive without avoiding their connections for days.

Don't dishonestly cover yourself with normalcy when we both know your behavior is abnormal.

The next question is why connections are draining to you. The answer is because you're putting on an act, but I'd love to hear your answer.

>>33414679
I can avoid my connections for days because I can, it's as simple as that. I don't care about normalcy or abnormalcy at all, those are relative terms that mean absolutely nothing.

>The next question is why connections are draining to you.
>The answer is because I'm putting on an act

Nope, though I suspect you're very good at acts yourself. You even have a nice little act set up already. I'm not interested in playing.

>>33414576
>crushing through their boundaries just to please yourself
While you withdraw and leave others out in the cold to please YOURself

>>33414717
Yes and their boundaries are still intact. No harm no foul. Also I'm not entirely without social fact, I know well enough to inform people that I'll be dipping out for a good while, so they got the heads up. If they get twisted over that, that's their problem at that point.

>>33414702
Fuck off from my thread then, hijacking fuck

>>33414725
>I know well enough to inform people that I'll be dipping out for a good while, so they got the heads up.
Enjoy their patience while it lasts. There will come a day when they find someone more reliable and wonder why they even care that you "dip out for a good while".
People who pride themselves with their flaws, instead of learning to manage them, are terrible honestly. Reminds me of the narcs that own the label, like just fuck right off.

>>33414725
Oh that's fine then. It's only bad if you disappear or make 0 effort without warning, especially while dating

No worries anon, you do you

>>33414725
>>33414702
You sound just like my ex lmao. I’m wondering if I should even reach back out because he was doing and saying this exact same thing, gave me the “it’s not you it’s me” and then dipped. He then proceeded to make it seem like I had done something to hurt him even tho I gave him everything, even when he was going through a mental episode, so I don’t know if it ended because of his avoidant behavior and wanting to be apart temporarily or if he genuinely hates my guts and wants to be distant because of that

>>33414749
>Hijacking
You were the one who wanted to dig into me and drag out a discussion. That's not hijacking, that's called reply to a post/ask a question, receive a post/get an answer.

>>33414759
>Wonder why they even care
I'd love them to stop caring about it.

>People who pride themselves with their flaws, instead of learning to manage them, are terrible honestly
No pride from me. Just acceptance. I know what I am and I know what can be changed and cannot be changed. Learning to manage them = tell people what you are and what to expect. It =/= pandering to others and submitting to their every need like a parent caters to a child.

>Reminds me of the narcissist
If I was a narcissist, I'd whine and complain and guilt trip people for attention and would cease functioning without people's presence. Narcs are massive people-pleasers who require constant social contact lest they shrivel up

>>33414789
Don't ever reach out to someone who ended it with you.

They had their chance. You were right there before their very eyes, making an effort and you tried your best. And they walked.

Move on. There's someone out there who won't treat you that way. Many people, in fact.

>>33414791
>You were the one who wanted to dig into me and drag out a discussion.
Now I want you to fuck off. Didn't read the rest.

>>33414590
>90% of people are unaware they're even being manipulative
If they don't know they're even doing it, how does it count as manipulation?

>>33414787
KEK. This avoidant guy is such a fag