I am a 29 year old KDV. I come from a country (the UK) where adult virginity is extremely uncommon because people are so sexually open here. So, my situation is even more abnormal than it would be anywhere else in the world.

I spent all of my teenage years and my early 20s relentlessly self-improving. I had a wide and strong social circle towards the end of high school and throughout university. I kept myself in shape, groomed myself well, dressed well, and wore nice-smelling fragrances. I participated in various hobbies like theatre, debating and playing football (soccer), and was extremely socially active.

I would estimate between the ages of 16 to 25 I met 100s if not 1000s of single women, and yet not even one girl/woman ever showed any form of romantic interest in me.

Meanwhile, every single other man I have known (even those who WERE dateless virgins at 18) ended up getting a girlfriend or having casual sex at least a few times, and most of them did so without even trying. Even the short, ugly, fat, smelly, and/or autistic guys I knew managed to do it with ease.

I truly don't know what is wrong with me. By all logic, I should have been able to get at least ONE date or ONE kiss or ONE girlfriend in my lifetime. Even the most embarrassing guys usually have a story of a girl they dated for a brief time in their youth, but I have nothing.

Whenever I've brought this story up to people, they tell me that I'm a "good looking guy" and "could get a GF easily", even women tell me this. But it just never happened for me. What did I do wrong, guys?

what happened when you initiated flirting? give us several examples

>>33419269
I have never initiated flirting. I don't have the slightest clue how to flirt. I am also deathly afraid of women thinking that I'm creepy, so I refrain from showing visible signs of romantic interest towards them.

Most of my time when hanging out with girls is spent trying to work out how to interact with them without coming across like I have the hots for them. I don't want them to think "ewww, Anon is really into me, that's so creepy"

>>33419280
>don’t ever make any moves on women
>hurr durr why am I still a virgin

Truly a question for the greatest minds of our time.

>>33419302
How can I make any moves when women show zero romantic interest in me?

Approaching random women who aren't into me is a good way to earn a reputation as a lecherous creep.

>>33419315
>How can I make any moves when women show zero romantic interest in me?
Women don't show romantic interest sober to guys under 10/10. You have to create it by flirting. It is their version of hiding their power level. If you're not getting it by 14 or 15, you will never create romantic interest passively, full stop. You need to abandon your current approach, which is not suited to a man like you.

>>33419357
I can't flirt though. I have literally zero idea how to do it. I am not able to be smooth or charismatic around women. If I tried to flirt, it would likely come across as cheesy and cringey and she would laugh in my face.

Also, why am I the only one who has to put in this special effort? Every other guy I've known in my life, even the unattractive/short/fat guys, have got dates and GFs without even trying. They just go to random places, randomly meet girls, and randomly end up in a relationship with one.

>>33419367
>things just randomly happen

No they don’t. Actual effort went into it but to dumb outside observers like you it might as well be magic. Also stop larping OP if you were really as social and cool as you pretend, you would be socially astute enough to pick up by yourself.

>>33419387
>No they don’t. Actual effort went into it but to dumb outside observers like you it might as well be magic.
No, I mean I actually asked male friends with girlfriends "How did you do it?" and they told me things like:
"I don't know, I just met her at *insert event here*, we got talking, and things just happened"

Why do things never "just happen" for me?

>Also stop larping OP if you were really as social and cool as you pretend, you would be socially astute enough to pick up by yourself.
I don't know what to say to that. I never said I was cool. I am literally autistic. I'm just not the kind of autistic who sits REEEEing and wallowing in his own filth.

>>33419261 (OP)
>What did I do wrong, guys?
You sound really resentful and entitled, for starters, but let's see....

>>33419280
>I have never initiated flirting
Well, there's your problem.

>>33419315
>How can I make any moves when women show zero romantic interest in me?
It's up to you to show interest. Women are attracted to men who are confident, outgoing and fun. If you're never even talking to a woman because you're scared, of course they won't be interested; they won't even notice you.

>Approaching random women who aren't into me is a good way to earn a reputation as a lecherous creep.
So don't "approach" women. Have a fucking conversation, as if both you and they are normal human beings. And no, light flirting is not creepy. If you flirt, they make it clear that they're not interested, and then you don't stop flirting, THAT is creepy.

>>33419367
>can't flirt though. I have literally zero idea how to do it
Well, that's your problem right there.

>>33419367
>Also, why am I the only one who has to put in this special effort?
Because you're the one who wants to get a date.

> Every other guy I've known in my life, even the unattractive/short/fat guys, have got dates and GFs without even trying
Yes. Because they are willing to make the effort that you are not. They flirt. You can carry on whining about it, or you can start making an effort. It's your call.

>>33419397
>"I don't know, I just met her at *insert event here*, we got talking, and things just happened"
>Why do things never "just happen" for me?
Because you don't talk to women. How are you supposed to "get talking" if you don't talk?

>>33419414
>You sound really resentful and entitled
How so?
I don't think it's "entitled" to expect that I should, at the very least, be able to get at least one date or one girlfriend in 29 years of life.
Even on websites like this one, most "virgin" guys still say they had something like one girlfriend when they were 18 or something. Or you get guys who had long-term relationships but still call themselves "incels" just cause they're weirdos who hate women.

>It's up to you to show interest.
I can't. I'm too scared of coming across as a creep and her thinking I'm disgusting or pathetic.

>>33419414
>So don't "approach" women. Have a fucking conversation, as if both you and they are normal human beings.
I literally do EXACTLY that. It just results in friendly, platonic relationships with women because they never end up seeing me as a potential romantic option.

>If you flirt, they make it clear that they're not interested, and then you don't stop flirting, THAT is creepy.
I don't want to experience that rejection. The thought of a woman perceiving my interest and rejecting it makes me feel queasy inside. She'll walk away thinking "Anon is such a creep for thinking he had a chance with me". I can't deal with that.

>Yes. Because they are willing to make the effort that you are not. They flirt. You can carry on whining about it, or you can start making an effort. It's your call.
They don't make any effort though? They literally just go to places and naturally magnetise to women and form relationships without having to consciously think of it.

I'm telling you that 99.9% of men do not go to social events and start thinking "AHH YES, AND NOW I AM GOING TO APPROACH THIS FEMALE AND START FLIRTING WITH HER IN A RITUAL OF COURTSHIP"... No, they just talk to women and things just happen naturally. But for me, things don't seem to work like that.

>>33419423
>Because you don't talk to women.
I DO talk to women. What I don't do is flirt with them or express any form of romantic interest in them.

>>33419261 (OP)
>I spent all of my teenage years and my early 20s relentlessly self-improving. I had a wide and strong social circle towards the end of high school and throughout university. I kept myself in shape, groomed myself well, dressed well, and wore nice-smelling fragrances.
You were likely self-improving all the wrong things or at least in the wrong ways.

The fact that you're a 4chan sperg and described yourself as "well dressed well groomed and well perfumed" makes me think you were wearing collared shirts to class and other extremely formal clothes looking constantly like you were on your way to a job interview.

>>33419280
>I have never initiated flirting. I don't have the slightest clue how to flirt. I am also deathly afraid of women thinking that I'm creepy, so I refrain from showing visible signs of romantic interest towards them.
well there's the thing you should've been improving on

>>33419315
>>33419367
>never told a girl her haircut looks nice or that she has cool fashion or a good taste in music or movies
>wonders why he never got a gf

come on man

>Also, why am I the only one who has to put in this special effort? Every other guy I've known in my life, even the unattractive/short/fat guys, have got dates and GFs without even trying. They just go to random places, randomly meet girls, and randomly end up in a relationship with one.

because it's not random, and it's not a special effort - it's simply talking to a girl asking what she does for fun and what she thinks is cool and throwing her a few compliments

>If I tried to flirt
you never did, so don't assume how it would end up playing out.

Also if you're genuinely autistic and are into anime or trains or whatever else, don't be trying to chase after normie girls or trying to pass yourself off as normie. Embrace the autism, find a hecking quirky chungus gf at a used book store or friday nigth card game tournament or something instead of a blonde slut at a night club.

>>33419468
>makes me think you were wearing collared shirts to class and other extremely formal clothes looking constantly like you were on your way to a job interview.
No, not at all lol. You really don't know me at all.

>well there's the thing you should've been improving on
Again: How can I flirt if every woman just puts up a metaphorical wall which says in flashing lights "I AM NOT ROMANTICALLY INTERESTED, I ONLY SEE YOU AS A FRIEND"? Because that's what happens with every single woman I interact with.

>>never told a girl her haircut looks nice or that she has cool fashion or a good taste in music or movies
>>wonders why he never got a gf
>come on man
Because I am TERRIFIED of a girl perceiving me and judging me for such a compliment. I don't want to be that freak who tells a girl he likes her shirt and she goes "Oh, uhhh, haha, thaaanks..." I don't EVER want to be that guy.

>Also if you're genuinely autistic and are into anime or trains or whatever else, don't be trying to chase after normie girls or trying to pass yourself off as normie. Embrace the autism, find a hecking quirky chungus gf at a used book store or friday nigth card game tournament or something instead of a blonde slut at a night club.
"Nerdy" girls are just as disinterested in me as "normie" girls are. And autistic women outright dislike me. I've known several autistic women in my life and ALL of them, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, were rude and standoffish to me and would never even so much as smile at me. At least neurotypical women can talk to me like I'm an actual person, autistic girls treat me like I'm subhuman or something. No joke.

>>33419447
>I don't think it's "entitled" to expect that I should, at the very least, be able to get at least one date or one girlfriend in 29 years of life.
>>33419455
>I DO talk to women. What I don't do is flirt with them or express any form of romantic interest in them.
how are you surprised or confused as to why you don't have a gf when you actively refuse to engage in the social act of flirting

>I can't deal with that
but you can deal with having no gf?

and no one's gonna think you're a creep unless you're acting creepy like trying to flirt with girls by standing next to the ladies' washroom or something

>I'm telling you that 99.9% of men do not go to social events and start thinking "AHH YES, AND NOW I AM GOING TO APPROACH THIS FEMALE AND START FLIRTING WITH HER IN A RITUAL OF COURTSHIP"... No, they just talk to women and things just happen naturally.
No. If I see/meet a girl who I'm attracted to I definitely make the conscious active choice to flirt with her. If I'm not interested, then I keep platonic and formal.

Don't be acting like you're the authority on men getting pussy with your no-pussy getting-ass,

>>33419496
>how are you surprised or confused as to why you don't have a gf when you actively refuse to engage in the social act of flirting
Because I would've expected that in 29 years of life, with many of those years having been spent being incredibly socially active and meeting plenty of women, at least ONE girl would've approached me and expressed interest in me. But it simply never happened. That isn't normal, is it?

>and no one's gonna think you're a creep unless you're acting creepy like trying to flirt with girls by standing next to the ladies' washroom or something
I dunno. A lot of the time when talking with girls I just get this vibe that, although they're being perfectly friendly, there is a line I shouldn't cross where I shouldn't ever compliment her or say anything that could be construed as flirty. If a girl never says any compliments to me, I take that as a sign that I shouldn't give her any. The last thing I want is to say something to a woman and have her give me a look of exasperation and judgement because she thinks "Why is he doing this? Why would he think I'm into him like that?"

>>33419492
>No, not at all lol. You really don't know me at all.
So describe "grooming/dressing well" if you don't mind.

>Again: How can I flirt if every woman just puts up a metaphorical wall which says in flashing lights "I AM NOT ROMANTICALLY INTERESTED, I ONLY SEE YOU AS A FRIEND"? Because that's what happens with every single woman I interact with.
Because you're the one approaching her with a firm manager's friendship handshake, treating her like a co-worker with your boss watching the two of you closely. Of course a girl sees you only as a friend when you present yourself only as a friend.

>Because I am TERRIFIED of a girl perceiving me and judging me for such a compliment. I don't want to be that freak who tells a girl he likes her shirt and she goes "Oh, uhhh, haha, thaaanks..." I don't EVER want to be that guy.

Bro if saying "hey I like your shirt" is too much for you, I don't know what or how you were talking to women and saying to them.

> I've known several autistic women in my life and ALL of them, WITHOUT EXCEPTION, were rude and standoffish to me
well sure yeah that's autism, like genuine autism. People are rude without realizing it
like
>hey so that was a fun movie
>WRONG. In fact the movie was sub-par and I have proof of this because the aggregate score on rotten tomatoes is currently at 53%

I meant like sperg-lite girls, who are really really into literature or anime or goth music or something.

>op is scared shitless of expressing any kind of interest in women
>women assume he isn’t interested in them
>why can’t i get a gf?

Also I’m willing to bet that you did have girls interested in you anon but with how autistic you are coming across, you failed to recognise any of the signs.

>>33419539
>at least ONE girl would've approached me and expressed interest in me. But it simply never happened. That isn't normal, is it?
no what why why why would she?
Who the fuck are you that girls will wear the pants in the courtship and be approaching you? because you wear a perfume? come on guy

To be fair, I totally had girls approach me - but only because they were goth/alt and so was I and I also actively flirted with just about any girl. but even then the first few years of me trying to get girls was 100% just me chasing after girls. I was completely shocked and thought it was a prank the first time a girl was flirting with me. Because even for the most fashionable and charismatic of us it's still the exception to the rule. Dudes are the ones who go out and make the first approach or firstr escalate it to flirting, generally speaking. 99.9999% of the time, for extremely attractive and confident guys.

You are not extremely confident, not sure about your physical attraction and fashion style, but you ooze insecurity just with your words alone. I can't imagine your body language.

So fuckin chin up, guy. Tell a bitch she has a fresh new haircut.

>If a girl never says any compliments to me,
Again, why would she? What's so cool about you? Your crippling lack of confidence aside.

>The last thing I want is to say something to a woman and have her give me a look of exasperation and judgement because she thinks "Why is he doing this? Why would he think I'm into him like that?"
okay?
so she gives you a fuckin look so what, she's being a cunt if she's gonna like cancel culture you or whatever the fear is when you tell her that she listens to good music.

like how do you even talk to your female friends? (if you have any) or make friendly talk with coworkers or classmates back in the day

>>33419541
>So describe "grooming/dressing well" if you don't mind.
You want me to give you a run-down of my entire wardrobe?

I mean it depends on the occasion. If it were a fancy night out or I was going to a restaurant, I might wear a nice blazer over a solid-colour t-shirt, but I wouldn't call that "formal", that's appropriate for the occasion. I have a lot of nice jackets and coats I love to wear in the winter or colder days. I like to wear things with patterns on them sometimes. If its a casual setting, I like wearing t-shirts of bands I listen to, not just generic ones but ones with great art and designs. I usually wear nice, high-quality jeans. I have a lot of cool sneakers which I keep in good condition, of various colours, as well as some more "smart casual" shoes.

A fair number of women have complimented me on my dress sense. Not in a flirty way, just as friendly. Most men don't give a fuck and will just throw on some dirty shirt and sweatpants with holes in them or some shit, so it isn't hard to stand out.

>Of course a girl sees you only as a friend when you present yourself only as a friend.
So which is it? Do I have to be some suave guy trying to seduce girls? Or do i need to treat girls as "just regular humans" like >>33419414 says? You are both saying entirely contradictory things.

>Bro if saying "hey I like your shirt" is too much for you, I don't know what or how you were talking to women and saying to them.
Saying "I like your shirt" might come across as sexual and get me labelled as just a creep who wants to get into her pants.

>I meant like sperg-lite girls, who are really really into literature or anime or goth music or something.
Those type of girls don't like me at all. They see straight through me and never engage with me or smile at me ever. Even online I tried joining discord servers and communities for that sort of thing, and the girls just don't even want to interact with me at all.

>>33419570
>Also I’m willing to bet that you did have girls interested in you anon
No not really. I would know if they were. I am extremely attentive to these things and would notice if a woman was flirting with me.

>>33419579
>To be fair, I totally had girls approach me - but only because they were goth/alt
So why don't the goth/alt girls approach me then? I have tattoos and listen to a lot of alt-rock, industrial and some metal, so I am adjacent to that scene. But every goth-ish girl I've ever met has treated me like garbage, like I'm not "cool" enough for her.

>So fuckin chin up, guy. Tell a bitch she has a fresh new haircut.
I can't. That's too sexual. She'll be thinking "eww, why is this guy staring at my fucking hair and examining it?"

>Again, why would she? What's so cool about you? Your crippling lack of confidence aside.
Most men get compliments, so why not me?

>like how do you even talk to your female friends?
Just normal, like as if they are guys. I can compliment girls I'm friends with a bit easier, but even there I have to be careful. I still can't do anything appearance-based.

>>33419597
>A fair number of women have complimented me on my dress sense. Not in a flirty way, just as friendly.
so why can't you say that to them?

>So which is it? Do I have to be some suave guy trying to seduce girls? Or do i need to treat girls as "just regular humans" like >>33419414 says? You are both saying entirely contradictory things.
what? I didn't say anything contradicting that anon, we're saying the same thing in our own way.

If you never ever flirt with any girl whatsoever at all, you will never get a gf.

>Saying "I like your shirt" might come across as sexual and get me labelled as just a creep who wants to get into her pants.
okay so just say "I like your style" like what is even sexual about a shirt for you

>Those type of girls don't like me at all. They see straight through me and never engage with me or smile at me ever. Even online I tried joining discord servers and communities for that sort of thing, and the girls just don't even want to interact with me at all.

probably because you don't smile at or interact with them to begin with, same as any other type of girl.

>>33419668
>so why can't you say that to them?
Because they may interpret it as a sexual comment and view me as perverted and be disgusted with me.

>If you never ever flirt with any girl whatsoever at all, you will never get a gf.
Flirting is not "treating them as a regular human"... I don't go around flirting with dudes do I? Flirting is something special you do with people you are attracted to.

>okay so just say "I like your style" like what is even sexual about a shirt for you
Ugh, that sounds even worse. "I like your style" is something some 35 year old sleazy bastard says. Women will DEFINITELY think I'm disgusting if I say that.

>probably because you don't smile at or interact with them to begin with, same as any other type of girl.
If I smile at them they might think I'm creeping on them.

>>33419668
>like what is even sexual about a shirt for you
Forgot to respond to this.

The problem is any appearance-based compliment is subtly sexual, and I believe most women can recognise that. If I say "I like your shirt" she will probably interpret that as me saying "Your shirt makes you look sexually attractive". And maybe there's a chance that will work, but there's equal if not more chance she will be disgusted by it and will be silently judging me inside her head for saying it.

>>33419630
>So why don't the goth/alt girls approach me then? I have tattoos and listen to a lot of alt-rock, industrial and some metal, so I am adjacent to that scene. But every goth-ish girl I've ever met has treated me like garbage, like I'm not "cool" enough for her.
because I spent years chasing after goth and alt girls desperately flirting with them - with mixed results but it at least gave me my first dates and kissing and eventually sexual experienced, and that built my confidence.

People have body language, the way you carry yourself and interact with other people. if you're not confident then you're not attractive.

>how do I build confidence?
by awkwardly flirting and going on terrible dates with all sorts of girls, until it's not awkward or terrible anymore.

>Most men get compliments, so why not me?
because it sounds like you've never talked to a woman in your entire life

>Just normal, like as if they are guys. I can compliment girls I'm friends with a bit easier, but even there I have to be careful. I still can't do anything appearance-based.

so you would never tell a lady friend of yours that her new haircut looks great, even fi she asked you how it looks? Or comment about new shoes or a band shirt she's wearing?

why

>>33419695
>because I spent years chasing after goth and alt girls desperately flirting with them
Wow, you're quite privileged aren't you? If I did that they'd probably laugh in my face and I'd get rejected 100 times.

>People have body language, the way you carry yourself and interact with other people. if you're not confident then you're not attractive.
I've met countless men who were EXTREMELY unconfident and still got girlfriends with 0 effort. One of my best friends at university was a guy who was fat, balding, and had rotting teeth, and on top of that had frequent mental breakdowns where he would shout and threaten to kill himself. He still had a cute long-term GF and had several GFs before that one too.

>by awkwardly flirting and going on terrible dates with all sorts of girls, until it's not awkward or terrible anymore.
I would go on dates, but I literally can't. I don't even have the opportunity to practice because no women are willing to go on a date with me.

>because it sounds like you've never talked to a woman in your entire life
I've talked to literally 1000s of women. More than most men on 4chan could dream of.

>so you would never tell a lady friend of yours that her new haircut looks great, even fi she asked you how it looks?
If she asked me, yes of course I would, although I would have to hold back from being too emotive, lest I give off the impression of being over-eager.

>Or comment about new shoes or a band shirt she's wearing?
If she didn't ask, no. For the same reasons I said before. It could come across as an unwarranted sexual comment.

>>33419367
>Also, why am I the only one who has to put in this special effort?
coz you are the only one who sees flirting as effort

>>33419711
It IS effort when you have no idea how to do it.

Imagine if someone didn't know how to ride a bike because nobody ever taught them, nor did anyone ever provide them with a bike or give them the opportunity to ride one.

Then you tell them "just ride a fucking bike dude. everybody does it, it's easy"

But they don't know what the fuck to do. They're terrified of getting on the bike, riding a few seconds and falling off and injuring themselves. Riding that bike is massive effort for them, even if it's easy for 99.9% of other people.

>>33419685
>any appearance-based compliment is subtly sexual, and I believe most women can recognise that. If I say "I like your shirt" she will probably interpret that as me saying "Your shirt makes you look sexually attractive".
yeah but no you're not saying "nice tits" or whatever - what if it really is a cool shirt? What if it's one of your favorite bands shirt.

and how come when women complimented your appearance you didn't see that as sexual?

>>33419724
You know exactly how to do it because you've written a bunch of posts in this thread detailing exactly what you refuse to do and why

you refuse to flirt with a girl, because you're scared she might think you're flirting with her.

>>33419731
>yeah but no you're not saying "nice tits" or whatever - what if it really is a cool shirt? What if it's one of your favorite bands shirt.
Then I'll probably still just stay quiet out of fear. If it was one of my favourite band's shirts, I would be nervous about talking to the girl because we have a shared interest, and that kind of makes things higher stakes. I would feel more of an obligation to impress her, and that would make me anxious.

>and how come when women complimented your appearance you didn't see that as sexual?
Because it just wasn't. You can just tell from women's voice and body language. A girl might be talking to me and say "anon, you smell nice today" but I can tell from her tone of voice it is a purely platonic, innocent comment. There is no lust or desire in her voice at all.

>>33419750
>You know exactly how to do it because you've written a bunch of posts in this thread detailing exactly what you refuse to do and why
I don't. I literally don't know the words to say or in what order.

I am a very clumsy person, what if I go to compliment a girl and I stumble over my words or something? She'll look at me like I'm mentally deficient.

>>33419724
>It IS effort when you have no idea how to do it.
sure, but that's kind of my point. you have to put in effort, because this is something that only takes effort for you. that's why. maybe you have other gifts that come effortlessly to you but only with effort to others. that's life.

>>33419778
It just isn't fair though. Why was I dealt such a shit hand in life? It was like I was cosmically cursed at birth.

>>33419757
so why can't you just act friendly and say "hey I like that band, great shirt" if you know what the difference is between a friendly tone and a sexual tone.

Most flirting starts off in a friendly tone anyways, flirting is something that slowly escalates.

>>33419767
>I am a very clumsy person, what if I go to compliment a girl and I stumble over my words or something? She'll look at me like I'm mentally deficient.
literally who cares if you stumble or mumble your words or your voice cracks, either you strike out with that girl and move onto the next or you manage to bounce back from your epic voice crack or farting real loud and you still manage to charm that girl.

I threw up on a date once, who cares

>>33419798
>so why can't you just act friendly and say "hey I like that band, great shirt" if you know what the difference is between a friendly tone and a sexual tone.
Because I don't know a woman's mind. I don't know how she'll react. She might interpret things differently than I would.

My assumption is that most women do not want to be bothered by men and think the worst of us, so if I make a compliment it will probably be interpreted in the worst possible way.

>literally who cares if you stumble or mumble your words or your voice cracks
Most women would, because it makes me look pathetic and incompetent, and that's deeply unattractive.

>I threw up on a date once, who cares
Wow, if that happened to me the girl would probably storm out and never speak to me again.

>>33419811
>My assumption is that most women do not want to be bothered by men and think the worst of us, so if I make a compliment it will probably be interpreted in the worst possible way.

and yet your friends and everyone else you know and the world at large as seemingly no or very few problems getting girls. You were saying a minute ago about how you think "it just happens" when people show up
>>33419367
>Every other guy I've known in my life, even the unattractive/short/fat guys, have got dates and GFs without even trying. They just go to random places, randomly meet girls, and randomly end up in a relationship with one.
how are you say that women are bothered by the mere presence of men but at the same time all the other guys you know got gfs by their presence alone.

>Most women would, because it makes me look pathetic and incompetent, and that's deeply unattractive.
so? It doesn't happen all the time. If you actually a neurological condition where you're actually stuttering over every single word all the time that's something else.

>Wow, if that happened to me the girl would probably storm out and never speak to me again.

No we had sex like 15 minutes later we were both very drunk on the back of a bus.

>>33419859
>and yet your friends and everyone else you know and the world at large as seemingly no or very few problems getting girls. You were saying a minute ago about how you think "it just happens" when people show up
Well, I think women have an especially negative view of me as an individual.

I have often wondered if all women just hate me or something. The vibes I get from most women most of the time are "Go away and don't talk to me", even when I have done absolutely nothing wrong.

>No we had sex like 15 minutes later we were both very drunk on the back of a bus.
I just don't understand how. How can you do something so humiliating and still succeed? For one thing, your breath would've stunk of awful vomit, what woman wants to have sex with a man who reeks of fresh vomit and stomach acid?

Things like that would just never happen to me. If I was on a date with a girl (as if that would ever happen) and I fucking THREW UP, I would be mortified and would practically have a panic attack out of shame, and the girl would never speak to me again.

You have to remember that not every man is some smooth, suave James Bond style seductor like you are.

OP here. Found this image which 100% accurately describes how I feel about me flirting with a woman.

Funnily enough, it was posted by a woman too. Don't really understand how a girl could feel the same way as me, but whatever.

>>33419879
>The vibes I get
what vibes

>I just don't understand how. How can you do something so humiliating and still succeed? For one thing, your breath would've stunk of awful vomit, what woman wants to have sex with a man who reeks of fresh vomit and stomach acid?
I think I probably must've drank some water at least, maybe had a mint or some gum, but like I said we were both very drunk and also smokers so our taste buds and mental faculties at large were quite dull.

>You have to remember that not every man is some smooth, suave James Bond style seductor like you are.
more like wannabe marilyn manson style seductor back in those days.

There was one date where I accidentally said a racist joke in front of everyone.

One date where I forgot the girl's name, and kept calling her by a different name.

My very first date was awful but nothing funny awful I was just very quiet and awkward. That happens sometimes.

Being cringe on a bad date isn't the end of the world my dude.

>>33419897
0 self confidence

She, and you, feel like you coming onto them and flirting with them potentially having sex and/or being in a relationship would be a disservice to them.

>>33419930
>what vibes
Just their whole demeanour and the way they speak to me.

Every word is said with a tone as if they are just tolerating my presence. Very, very few women ever seem happy or excited to see me. They never hug me as either a greeting or a goodbye. Meanwhile, other men (not just attractive men, ALL other men) get better treatment. I will see girls having very enthusiastic conversations with other guys in ways they never have with me.

>Being cringe on a bad date isn't the end of the world my dude.
It is when you're me. Life is harder for me than for anyone else. The standards for me are higher than they are for anyone else. When I screw up, the whole world takes notice and judges me. When you screw up, everybody forgets 5 minutes later. We are not the same.

>>33419943
>Very, very few women ever seem happy or excited to see me. They never hug me as either a greeting or a goodbye. Meanwhile, other men (not just attractive men, ALL other men) get better treatment. I will see girls having very enthusiastic conversations with other guys in ways they never have with me.
because you're terrified of telling a girl she has a cool t-shirt or a fresh haircut, other guys aren't.
>When I screw up, the whole world takes notice and judges me.
No they don't. You're not a celebrity on twitter.

>>33419261 (OP)
You almost surely look or behave like a gay guy.

>>33419261 (OP)
>I spent all of my teenage years and my early 20s relentlessly self-improving
he fell for the meme kek

>>33419492
>Again: How can I flirt if every woman just puts up a metaphorical wall which says in flashing lights "I AM NOT ROMANTICALLY INTERESTED, I ONLY SEE YOU AS A FRIEND"? Because that's what happens with every single woman I interact with.
Okay, anon, you are asking us for advice, but then ignoring it when we give it to you. Please just listen for a minute, okay? You have the cause and effect completely backwards here. You've told us that you're absolutely terrified of expressing even the slightest hint of interest in a woman, because you think you'll be perceived as creepy, or whatever. So what's actually happening here is, you talk to her, and you send out a barrage of non-verbal signals, all of them saying "I have absolutely no interest in you sexually or romantically". She picks up those signals and changes her behaviour towards you in the way that she thinks you want her to - namely, by keeping her distance and not being any more than polite.

So it's not the case that you don't flirt because women act disinterested, it's that women act disinterested because you don't flirt. And I can promise you, it is absolutely untrue that other men manage to get a girlfriend without expressing any interest in her! I know all this doesn't make sense to you, because you're autistic, but you need to listen to people who are less autistic than you!

We've told you several times what you need to do, and all we get from you is "I can't do that because I'm scared." I'm sure you are scared; but your choices are: A, keep doing what you're doing, in which case nothing will ever change, or B, overcome your fear and try expressing some interest sometimes. There are no other options available. It's no good saying to us "How do I get a girlfriend without doing any of the things I need to do to get a girlfriend?" No one can give you a good answer to that. We've told you what you need to do; it's up to you whether you try it or not.

>>33420142
I've been told by women a lot of times that they initially thought I was gay when they met me. I'd never express this but it honestly made me feel incredibly insulted.

>>33420365
>and you send out a barrage of non-verbal signals, all of them saying "I have absolutely no interest in you sexually or romantically"
Well, the alternative is I do the opposite and risk women thinking that I'm a lecherous creep. So i don't know what to do. It's either risk potential humiliation, or send signals of disinterest. Neither are appealing.

>And I can promise you, it is absolutely untrue that other men manage to get a girlfriend without expressing any interest in her!
Maybe, but for other men they don't need to CONSCIOUSLY express interest. They just do it naturally without thinking. So for them, it's like they aren't even trying at all.

>B, overcome your fear and try expressing some interest sometimes.
But the consequences are potentially catastrophic and soul-destroying. If a woman ever walked away from an interaction with me thinking I was creepy, I would be destroyed as a person. If I ever became aware of it, I would never want to leave the house again.

>>33420633
>but what if... I'm embarrassed!? I might never talk to another woman ever again

bro you already don't talk to women, and you're embarrassed to even be in the same room as them

>>33420737
It's about being perceived and judged.

Passive embarrassment isn't as painful. It's embarrassment I only feel myself, and only I know about it.

But if I were to approach and be rejected, I am being perceived and judged by a woman. She is thinking about me in a negative manner. She may continue to think negative thoughts about me for the rest of the day, week, month, year, or she might even remember me MULTIPLE years later and think about how awful and cringey I was. She might gossip about me to her friends as well. I cannot handle all that. I don't want that to happen.