>There used to be up to 60 million American bisons by the late 18th century
>Now there's only 30k of them

>>4998796 (OP)
Damn Indians

Isn't this more concerning?
>the species was culled down to just 541 animals by 1889
>1900: 300

Also
>European bison, also called wisent (Bison bonasus), faced extinction in the early 20th century. The animals living today are all descended from 12 individuals
WTF. How can people imply being against race mixing among humans leads to dangerous inbreeding if even in its strictest theoretical form it would still yield initial population sizes of these races in the millions and then try to save an animal descended from 12 individual animals.

cattle are lame

>>4998811
don't forget cultural evolutionary biofeedback

human evolution accelerated with agriculture. hunter gatherers are basically a different species, like the coyotes to our highly organized wolves.

>>4998796 (OP)
yeah but now we can make all of our food with meat and corn sugar, how much revenue do ugly smelly overgrown cows generate for big ag?

>>4998811
humans are tax cattle, you can't trust anything they teach in school or are allowed to say on the news because it's designed to corral people. Ideal genetic distance for breeding is your 4th cousin, closer or further both increase miscarriages and genetic defects.

>>4998796 (OP)
The bison were only so thick on the plains because their main predator (Native Americans) had been devastated by 5 waves European epidemic, starting with the Norwegian Plague courtesy of the Norse in the middle 1300s. And anyways, they’ve been supplanted by the 41 million domestic bovines in US herds.

We could absolutely stand to have a few million wild bison, but 60 million would be too many even if we abandoned dairying and replaced our beef herds with bison.
>>4998811
One of the key technologies behind the Colossal Biosciences company can be used to address founder syndrome through therapeutic cloning and embryo implantation. It allows lost alleles that can be found in related populations or Paleo DNA to be reintroduced to the population.

>>4998796 (OP)
They had it coming

>>4998891
kel

>>4998943
Based knowledge post

>>4998796 (OP)
Mogged by based homos

>>4998943
>starting with the Norwegian Plague courtesy of the Norse in the middle 1300s
is that true?

>>5000959
It’s the subject of ongoing research and hasn’t got much published literature, but the timeline for the collapse of the precolumbian Nordic/American contact, archaeologically known village collapses, and the outbreak of 1349 in Norway all line up. I don’t actually know of any smoking guns (like a sequenced Ysteria pestis genome that matches the ones from European graves, there’s a lack of human remains in the new world, just a load of disruption in the site habitation records), but it fits some gaps in our understanding and seems likely.

>>4998811
Inbreeding really isn't an issue if your founding population didn't have any bad genes. And even then natural selection will take care of that. They might face a big bottle neck for some generations but eventually they'll bounce back once all the bad alleles are gone. It's only a problem in captivity because the retardarded animals are allowed to live.

Pretty much every species that doesn't migrate a lot is inbred. There are invasive lizards that have been genetically sequenced and proven to be descended from three individuals. Or that one Galapagos island where a single black bird came and hybridized with all the other finches and pretty much the entire island was related to him.

>>4998815
So you'd say hunter gatherer humans and agriculture humans to effectively be two different species? Considering lactose tolerance, sugar tolerance, and just how different environments are between the two populations. I can see where you're coming from.

>>4998811
>how can people be against racemixing if it can save our species from going extinct in an emergency when there's double digit humans on Earth???
Because there's 8,000,000,000 of us you colossal fucking retard. No humans could have children for 5 years and we wouldn't be facing extinction.

>>5001165
Whomst quotest thou?

>>5000995
>There are invasive lizards that have been genetically sequenced and proven to be descended from three individuals
lmao
Is that a dig against Jews?
A friend of mine, an Ashkenazi, was telling me back in October about some study he read that all Ashkenazim are descended of, like, three women who settled in what would be called Ukraine today.
I'm italki IE Italian rite Jew. While we were forced to keep to ourselves (the ghettos were literally created to keep italkim separate from other Italians), Italki women still managed to marry Catholic men and leave the ghetto, living as cryptojews so while our population is smaller, we're considerably less inbred than the Ashkenazim are and maybe why we don't have all the neuroses they're stereotyped for having
>>4998811
I think I've read that pet hamsters are all descended of a single pair of individuals. Maybe that's why they're all psychotic little cunts.

>>5001261
The person I replied to, unless you think I'm misinterpreting their ESL-babble.

>>5001271
He may be talking about the Italian wall lizard (?)

>>5001271
>>5001430
>He may be talking about the Italian wall lizard (?)
Yes but specifically Podarcis muralis in Ohio. A kid brought ten in a sock and only three survived to breed the next year.
Podarcis siculus populations in New York and Kansas were imported from all over Italy so they're pretty genetically diverse. Other USA populations are descended from those two.

>>5000959
There’s some debate that TB infected seals caused the first or a tying theory that stipulates Nords brought seal skins infected with TB on accident but yeah it wasn’t just Columbus and his boys showing up on one island and destroying the North American population. It was multiple different exposures brought over by multiple different populations. TB, small pox, I’ve read some evidence that the Paiutes may have been spreading some plague from eating prairie dogs as well, etc. I’ve also read about certain mad cow style prion diseases potentially emerging from the Amazon where they still eat monkey brains to this day. Syphilis was carried back to Europe as well which makes things interesting when you read about how many nobles contracted it and went insane.

>>5000984
>>5001961
My understanding was that between Columbus and Jamestown, no on could establish a Settlement on he NA Atlantic coast, because the native villages were basically occupying the whole shore line and any sailors coming ashore were quickly driven back to their ship. So all the spanish, portuguese, french, dutch and brit ships did little more than charting and trading.
Then when the diseases went through, the brits and frogs could land and make first outposts.
But now youre telling me, that this densely settled coast was already diminished by illness the Norse brought in? Just how big was the NA population like 1000 years ago?

>>5001972
In the year 1000 AD, Cahokia was more populous than Paris France, and Teotihuacan would have been perhaps the 6th most populous city in the world. The estimates for total native american population in the US, prior to 1600 or so have error bars you could land an airliner on, because a lot of the evidence was destroyed during the resettling of the continent by Europeans, but North America alone was in the neighborhood of 30 million people (some estimate a much higher population), about equivalent to Europe. By 1492, that would have declined to between 15 and 20 million, and by 1776 it had declined to approximately 4 million.
Between 1000 AD and 1750 AD, the amount of tree cover in North America more than doubled as villages were abandoned and horticulture declined, and the advancing of the wilderness was well underway by the time Columbus arrived. Europe as well had experienced significant population swings and the wave of colonization was driven largely by the desire to continue to expand the way that the men of the time's fathers and Grandfathers had in Europe, but the slower pace of communication and trade in the Americas also caused plagues to burn longer than they did in Europe and Asia. There were ~30 million people in Europe in 1000 AD, and that had increased to 76 million or so by 1350, but the succession of plagues in the 1300s and 1400s meant that by 1450, the population of Europe had fallen below the 1000 AD level. It was the recovery and reclamation of abandoned lands in Europe that allowed for the enormous population boom that tripled or quadrupled the population of Europe in under a century, and created a culture of expectation of growth that was essentially heretofore unseen. This culture and surplus population is what drives the age of colonization and age of exploration from the late 1400s to the late 1600s.

>>4998796 (OP)
I'm surprised every animal in America (u.s.a.) isn't extinct by now with how they build shit and how little they care about nature. Micro plastics in the water and all this sheet

Where do those 500k bisons live now? On plains, wild in herds? Is there that much space? Would assume that farmers would be annoyed by a bison herd eating their crops

>>5002079
How could North American natives (as in, everything north of the Mesoamerican population in this context) support a similar population to Europe despite lesser technology (lack of bronzeworking, for instance), zero beasts of burden, and nearly no animal husbandry, while still engaging in intertribal warfare, and having, in many cases, to deal with more hostile weather due to lack of proximity to the ocean?

>>5003581
the us is mostly wilderness dude
and stuff like microplastics is a global issue

>>4998811
Dangerous inbreeding doesn't matter with animals because the sickly runts will just die and not eat taxes.

>>5001972
There were some European settlements along the North Atlantic coast that eventually failed. The English and Spanish both had some in the Carolinas, for example. I think they basically got BTFO from fighting with other Europeans and natives, and having a very hard time growing enough food to survive.

>>5004882
Assuming the other poster was defining "North America" as Alaska to Panama, then North America is almost twice as big as Europe, so the more advanced Europeans still having an equal number of people would make sense. And a lot of the natives had access to way better food, like potatoes and corn. Those two in particular provide a much higher rate of calories (good for farmers with a very active lifestyle) when factoring in their volume and how efficiently they can be grown when compared to the crops available to Europeans. And I think a lot of the natives still ate a ton of meat, while the Roman Catholic Church had a prohibition on meat consumption (not fish) for much of the year, so that might also have something to do with it.