Is it just me, or does anyone else think that it's super fucked up to keep dogs or cats or anything else inside for most of their life? Yeah, they're taken care of, kept warm, given food, and all that, but they don't get to enjoy the pure joy of exploring and doing things.

Is there a better way? Obviously dogs and cats can't just be set loose, it would cause a number of problems, but there must be a way to give them a better life.

more and more places are pet friendly these days. Plenty of places let you take your dog inside for shopping or whatever. Dogs and cats like their owners, they would rather be around you doing stuff than just wandering the woods aimlessly looking for food. We basically bred them to be like that.

>>5007501 (OP)
take them on long walks
have more than one dog so that they have someone to play with
hang out with them in your yard
install doggy doors

Why do you spend so much time thinking about what it would be like to be an animal, without first considering how stupid animals are? When they're agitated they sometimes forget their limbs are under their control and attached to their body. They don't have a rich experience or awareness.

They were just selectively bred to trigger your empathetic instincts to the point of evolving eyebrows where wolves had none

Sympathy = "I think would feel ____ if I were you"
Virtue ethics = "We should ____ because ____ and if we ___ when ____ then we must to be consistent with ourselves"
Empathy = You involuntarily feel something when you see/hear something appearing to feel that something, as learned in your infant years via mirror neurons and observing other humans

If you are chinese/autistic you likely dont have empathy and overcompensate with hollow sympathy and virtue ethics to try and seem normal to others fyi

>>5007509
faggot I'm white, you can see my fingers in that picture.

I just want any animals of mine to have a good life. Not my problem if you don't understand that.

>>5007510
You're on 4chan so you're probably autistic

Normal people are just happy when their dogs are happy and they don't spend time overcompensating for social unawareness by thinking about it. It just so happens that this works great because instead of taking on the impossible task of finding out what a dog actually experiences, you just go off whether they are happy or not.

>>5007512
Enough about me. I'm asking about how to give a good life to these animals.

That dog got loose once, outran and killed a deer, ripped its throat out. I had to smuggle it back home, wrapped in a tarp, to butcher it and eat it. I still have some of the less desirable meat in the freezer.

But I think about it, that's the closest that dog has ever gotten to being truly free.

>>5007515
You think about it, but the dog is excited sometimes and bored some others either way. Open your eyes. Dogs are not angsty teen philosophers. They are animals. Really unique animals that have been with us longer than agriculture, so they evolved the ability to automatically transmit their feelings to non-autists.

You should be able to just know if your dog is happy or not. You shouldn't have to think.

Does a dog really care if it's a deer and then a steak, or a ball and then a bone? Ask the dog.

Just walk your dog, this is a zero issue. The only time where having an animal indoors is an issue is when their needs cannot be met. That is when the implication of having something in a domestic setting is seen as morally dubious. Animals don't have demonstrateble desires for conceptions such as "freedom" (and most humans for that matter). Dogs and cats don't get depressed and stare out into the window yearning for the great outdoors of nature to be free. If you raise a cat indoors and when it's mature you open the garden door, 7/10 times thst cat will get nervous and retreat back into the house. The same applies with the opposite scenario and trying to introduce a wild cat indoors. When an animal such as a dog gets excited for walks they are excited to see or sense new things on your walk route. It is that stimulation and discovery. But just like the cat example there are plenty of dogs that do not like being walkes and prefer to be in a domestic enviroment.

You really shouldn't be concerning yourself or busying your mind with such quandaries anon.

>>5007518
What a limited view. Of course I can tell if my dog is happy or not.

But the point is the scope of that happiness. You or I could be contained and feel relatively happy so long as we were given good food and recreational tools.

But would we really be happy? Same as the dog, we both know there's more. I think a dog isn't truly happy unless its given land to patrol and control.

>>5007535
>But would we really be happy? Same as the dog, we both know there's more. I think a dog isn't truly happy unless its given land to patrol and control
It suited people for thousands of years that would never venture from the tiny village they were born into

>>5007535
You have abstract thought and a rich imagination that can create an entire other planet, which does not exist, which you will then become neurotic over because you can't go there

Dogs don't

Hope this helps

>>5007501 (OP)
Yes but feeding them kibble is worse. At the very least feed them real whole food.

>>5007501 (OP)
walk them?

>>5007501 (OP)
Run them?

>>5007561
>>5007562
>>5007563
That's all pretty limited though, isn't it.Controlled. They need space to go crazy and be stupid. Kill something and only eat the spine, stuff like that. That's freedom, that's happiness.

>>5007569
Dogs don't hold stupid philosophies like this. They're basically very hungry ADHD 5 year old children with zero real imagination and the social manipulation skills of a 14 year old.

They are more "fulfilled" if you just get a second dog than if you let them do any of this "be primal return to ur roots muh thule muh trad muh paleo" bullshit.

>>5007569
>That's freedom, that's happiness
Retard

>>5007569
>>5007501 (OP)
Dependent on temperament entirely and no it's not abusive IF you do give them variation.

For instance I had an Iggy that hated the outside, he wanted very small walks, couldn't stand other dogs/animals other than the family structure.
He would run around for a few minutes, OKAY. tired. wants to go back inside.
He loved to play and would slap the floor for the other dog to know it's play time.

The other dog Dachshund, loves outside, and she loves to play.
So I took her outside more regularly to stimulate her, played with her more often, and when the Iggy wanted to play. She got plays from him also.
Behavioral issues were minimal.
This is the dynamic and loving an animal means meeting them in the middle, the same as loving a spouse or child.

>killing something
Bullshit, it's the stimulation that is important.
If a creature wants to be stimulated as if he is fighting something. Of course the creature will be upset if you give him the match.
It's up to you the human to carefully push the boundaries between we are lightly playing and we are aggressively playing.

t. owner of 30+ dogs throughout life.
including over 10 dachshunds and 3 Iggy's.
Never had ANY of the behavioral problems everyone always claims to have.
it's simple, you're a shitty human you'll have a shitty dog. You have to actually spend time with your animals. it's that simple.
Keep an animal under stimulated and it will be miserable.

For the record, most animals simply are not given enough space which almost always leads to resource hoarding.

>>5007621
>including over 10 dachshunds and 3 Iggy's.
must have been hard as hell to housebreak them

>>5007640
No, it's just very strict regiment.
We never rotate multiple puppies at once.
So there are always numerous dogs pissing/shitting outside to give plenty of example to the puppy of what is acceptable.

I've personally never had problem with an animal being housebroken.

>>5007608
Dude wtf are you talking about? I just want my animals to be genuinely happy, not in a fake way that's never truly enough because it never touches reality.

>>5007569
train them to be off leash?

>>absolutely. It is unnatural and when you look at their legs and their bodies up close you can tell they are made to run around alot. Their biology is designed so excitement is initiated by doing things. We force them to be like ornaments in our house with no autonomy and then constrained by another being. Regardless if we give them a longer life by keeping them inside we have taken them from their parents and modified them so they can't do much for themself in our world. Us too though because we also have an anatomy that is designed for something but we do not do it the same way anymore. So now we have mental health issues similarly to dogs who live their whole life being subservient obidient to another species treated as lesser and punished. We used to need them to survive but now they are almost purely used as ornamental companions who we say are our best friends but we don't listen to them when for example they want to kill a rabbit. Animals are just supposed to be with their own species and our biology is not compatible with alot of modern development. So today theres an ideological sentiment that most of us are kept blind to that is also responsible for animal factory farming and the manner of thinking of normalized war and justified killing others we have nothing to do with. Everyone suffers from. That ideology that's inherent in our culture. And we tend to think - "the world is already like that so why should I even try to do anything about it" . And it's not true because every small thing counts so I'm just saying however you experience that ideology and your dog experience it, you can do something about it you just have to trust that you are correct in what you know and you are very correct to think that using other species for our own purpose because they can't communicate to us or we think that they are of lesser stature is based on a false logic.
>>5007501 (OP)

>>5007692
>>5007703
Liberal ideology really does lead people to voluntarily become nonfunctionally mentally ill and convince themselves its proof they’re intelligent

Dogs are domesticated animals. They’re happy being your friend. They dont know the difference or worship nature and primal freedom faggotry like you angsty teenagers. They dont make up meants and oughts sans god either. Maybe you should follow their example for once. How can you know what should be? You can not even reason what should be. You are not god or a fraction as wise as something that understands the entire universe past, present, and future forever. Sit down and know your place.

People say they believe in God and they use that to ignore what they see in front of them. They see 2 eyes 5 fingers and toes and deny that there is any importance to that because of a quote in a holy book and eat products of things they disagree with. People will also say they believe in advertisements and for example look at the happy face on the label and then go into trusting that someone must have regulated this food or utility product that has slavery or violence in it (human or animal). When we think that things are far away, they don't exist to us. When u embrace that u will lose your own meaning because you don't even correspond to what you know is really true. Animals deserve autonomy and they deserve to be with themselves. They don't need us. They can die earlier in the wild and still have a better life than if they were with us inside or on a leash or like a toy even if they seem happy we took them from their parents a long time ago

>>5007705
I hope you're trolling. Everything has a sense of what's right and what's wrong. Doesn't matter how good the illusion is, they always know it isn't real.

>>5007705
its actually very basic primate behavior. they think intelligence moves them up the hierarchy so they philosophize out their ass like the intellectual version of a monkey puffing up their chest.

>omg dude my 40000 year domesticated canine is missing out on heckin natural and a connection to the spirit of the woods bro omg its so unnatural bro like its so wrong fuck employment and laws and shit bro

>>5007707
Whats right is your dog doesnt give a shit about being a pet. Worry about other peoples fulfillment instead of daydreaming about an animal that struggles to pass the mirror test, pseud.

>>5007711
>007711
Nice digits but fuck you anyway.

Everything should be free and full of life. A dog, a person, a bird, a fucking worm, all of it.

>>5007712
Freeeom is made up bullshit that only exists in your head. In nature things live in constant fear, get sick and eaten alive.

Before you talk about purpose and meant to be strip naked and survive in the middle of the congo without google.

>>5007713
As if you know what it's like to live in nature. Yeah, sometimes you get brutally injured or eaten alive, that's part of it. But it's still better than being kept in a cage.

>>5007714
how many animals do you think die after living out a full natural lifespan in the wild? "sometimes" my ass.

>>5007714
big words for a pseud living in a comfy cage

walk your dog. take them to the park and places. let them spend time outside whenever you’re home. thats all you have to do for your dog to live a life 100% of wolves would prefer if they could.
animals want security food and sex. you are a wannabe sigma male who wants to be free of social expectations projecting his miserable loserdom onto a dog.

notice dogs are happy, and you are a miserable fuck who spends all day writing his own shitty version of the bible, one bit of sophomoric pseudo wisdom at a time, informed by a bunch of liberal nuts.

you could say dogs are christians who accept gods plan

>>5007719
That's exactly my point, retard. Or maybe I'm the retard and you've been agreeing with me the whole time. Either way, AAAAA

>>5007501 (OP)
I kept my dog and cat in my backyard and would let them in at night to sleep. It was a good system.

>>5007509
>without first considering how stupid animals are?
This is literally what retards like you tell yourselves to justify abusing animals.

>>5008737
>nooo ur abusing animals cats are free nature spirits and supreme gentlemen and secret kings they are suffering inside nooooo!
Animals are dumb as fuck and comprehend captivity even less than you, a supposedly godly intelligence that has never left its home state

OP, you are a retard getting high on your own farts. You don't have to do anything special to your dog to make your dog live his best life. He's a dog. He'll do it himself as long as you live your best life. Stop projecting your own insecurities on your dog. He doesn't think like you.

>>5008925
>animals don't think like us
>only retards humanize animals
You guys always look at it backwards. It's not that they think like we do, it's that we think in a very similar way as all mammals do. We are unique, no doubt, but not as unique as you think. Most of our emotions are not just in us, they're in all mammals and some other creatures, ours are just more complex.

>>5010257
most humans live happily never leaving their hometown
what do you think it's like for an animal that is so fucking stupid it forgets its limbs are its own and attacks itself under duress

>>5007501 (OP)
>to enjoy the pure joy of exploring and doing things.
Before you get your pussy in a twist, I don't think animals are mindless robots. But they're also not quite that complicated.
For most animals, as long as their physical and mental needs are being met, they're perfectly happy. For dogs, they do require leaving the house on walks for mental stimulation, if you want to go that extra bit further you can train them in agility or scentwork, but there's a reason why most dogs are happy dogs going on two or so walks a day around the same block.
For cats, as long as they get played with regularly inside, inside is the only home they need. If you'd LIKE to go the extra mile, you can get a catio or leash train them, but again, indoor cats with all their needs met are happy.
So long as horses are living in a herd and have plenty of outdoor access, they're golden. Same with cows.
Animals don't have a concept of 'freedom' or 'exploration'. They are curious, yes, but it's a pretty base and selfish curiosity. 'Has another dog been here?' 'Is this edible?' 'Is this a threat?' 'Is this a potential mate?' That kind of thing. They don't explore for explorations sake, like we like to think we do.
Is your dog happy? Then he's happy. If you want to do more, go ahead.

>>5007501 (OP)
>Is there a better way?
Yes. It's better to not keep them as pets.

>>5010263
People hurt and kill themselves too when under severe stress or anxiety, yknow.