Why does god make gay boys?

>>936239591 (OP)
Population

>>936239591 (OP)
>Why does god
Prove that god exists.
>make gay boys?
Prove that they are made.

>>936239591 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Wrx6eQZ1E

Mostlers make gay boys.

Molesters make gay boys.

>>936240067
>>936240083
I'm bi and I was never molested.

>>936240083
Kek, /thread

>>936239591 (OP)
He doesn't. Your sexual deviancy makes you gay.

>>936239591 (OP)
to decrease the population of whites

>>936240113

Not that you remember.

>>936239962
Prove that God doesn't exist. The evidence for God exists in all of creation.

>>936240322
Nice manipulation attempt, I have no repressed memories.
I was never sexually molested and that is a fact.

>>936239591 (OP)
Specifically just so that the skeeviest, neck beardiest, grossest ones try to hit on me.

>>936239962
if god exists he made gay people
even if he doesn't exist gay people do regardless

>>936240502
Sure, that is sensible.

>>936240423

Hwo could you possibly know that you don't have any repressed memories?

>>936239591 (OP)
desensitization therapy for brainlets like you. one day, you'll finally fucking learn to mind your own business and stop sexualizing everyone around you. its none of your fucking business until someone's trying to fuck you personally. everything else has nothing to do with you.

you resent it so much because it's NOT centered around you and your shit tier regurgitated republican rhetoric.

>>936240385
No, the evidence of existence lies in existence. Are you insinuating that there is a creator for this existence? And that creator is “god”? Which god?
Pick any god you want, but you have to provide proof of said god.

>>936240280
>that tweet
Who did the census for the whole world in fucking 1900, and why would we trust those numbers? So retarded.

>>936240603
Because the ones I did have was resolved and they had no relation to sexual molestation, they were about getting bullied and beat up at school.
Once I remembered them again the sense that I had blanked out some memories went away.
Heck I thought I was straight well into my late teens until I met a guy that I found attractive, before that I had no sexual reactions to guys.

>>936240603
Here’s my theory then. Every straight person was molested as a child and that’s why they’re straight. Obviously this memory was repressed.

>>936240772

If that makes sense to you, then sure. But we both know you don't actually think that.

>>936241019
Just like you know that not every gay person was sexually molested into it.
Does that happen, sure, but it isn't something that all gay people went through.

>>936241081

Yes. I know that not all gay/bi people were molested. But I do also understand that the rates of gay/bi people who were molested are astronomically high compared to straight people. I say this as a bi person who was molested.

>>936240626
>And that creator is “god”?
Yes. The creator of the universe would automatically be God
>Which god?
How many creator gods are there? If two people look at a painting and interpret the painter's intended meaning differently, does that mean they aren't both trying to understand the same painter?

>>936241081
>>936241168
you both agree that it's a problem in a community thats at a higher risk of childhood trauma, and you both seem to agree that therapy is essential.

>>936241019
I don’t actually believe gay people are gay because they were molested, no. Just like I don’t believe the same for straight people.
>>936241168
Source? I’d wager straight people are molested way more than gay people. And is your logic that being molested = being gay/bi?

>>936241248
>How many creator gods are there?
at least as many as the number of religions that claim their exists

>>936241168
>I say this as a bi person who was molested.
I'm sorry that happened to you, it's just really unfair of you to claim that it happened to me too and that I just repressed it.
I'm bi because dudes can sometimes be hot too, not because someone molested me.
I'd even support you in saying that the rates of childhood sexual molestation happening to gay and bi people should be thoroughly looked into and dealt with, but claiming that it is all or most of gay/bi people who went through that is counterproductive, because it puts the ones who weren't on the defensive prompting them to tell you to fuck off.

>>936241248
>If two people look at a painting
you're assuming there was a painter in the first place, and they're not just looking at a photograph

>>936241248
>The creator of the universe would automatically be God
No they wouldn’t. Hence why I asked you what you mean by god and which god you’re talking about. And before we even get to that, you still have to prove that the universe was “created”, which implies intent by a creator. You haven’t proved that, just deflected with
>well since we have existence then surely we must have a creator
Which is a fallacy.

neither of you are using absolutes, just fallacious reasoning. if some =/= then all.

>>936240083
I've known numerous gay people who never got molested, and turned out gay. Hell, my cousin is gay, and was never molested. His boyfriend and him are fun dudes. We've been to numerous concerts together

>>936240083
I believe that some people are born with something wrong with them, biologically, and that thing manifests as a non reproductive sexual proclivity during puberty. It's not taught, but can be peer pressured into the closet. Likewise, straight people can closet their straightness, living homosexual lives due to peer pressure too

>>936241478
>I believe that some people are born with something wrong with them, biologically, and that thing manifests as a non reproductive sexual proclivity during puberty.
Nice opinion dude.

>>936241394
Any intelligence that intentionally brings about the whole of creation has earned the title of God. If half the population thinks he wants everyone to wear blue hats while the other half thinks he wants everyone to wear red hats and war over that disagreement (even if he actually wants the hats to be green), they are still worshiping the creator of the universe, of which there is just one.

>>936241248
>does that mean they aren't both trying to understand the same painter?
I’ll play along with your retarded example. Those two people would obviously assert that their definition of the painter is the true definition, while you are claiming that there’s an objective painter regardless of how people interpret their painting. What you’re not realizing is that the proof of which painter painted the painting is still on the person making the assertion of who they perceive the painter to be. If I asked that person “prove that your definition of the painter is the one that actually painted this”, and they said “prove that the painting didn’t have a painter”, I’d rightfully call them retarded and avoiding the subject. The proof is still on them for making the assertion of this specific painter. And again, that’s if I follow along with your retarded analogy, since we don’t even agree that this is a painting and if it is one, if someone intentionally painted it and paint didn’t just fall on a canvas.

>>936241660
>of which there is just one.
Or none.

>>936241660
>Any intelligence that intentionally brings about the whole of creation has earned the title of God
soon as you actually find one of these you be sure to let us know

>>936241660
>Any intelligence that intentionally brings about the whole of creation
You’re begging the question and continuing to deflect. Not once did I agree with you about an intelligent being, nor said being intentionally creating something. Go back and prove these two premises like was originally asked of you.

>>936241816
The creator of the universe is God. I know you don't believe. I'm just telling you which creator created the universe. The only one there is

>>936241660
gods dead btw. there was never a plan. the universe improvised.

>>936241926
I think you’re incapable of critical thinking or following a basic conversation, anon.
I’ll just throw a new premise at you since this is a moot dialogue we’re having: the universe came into existence on its own without a creator.

>>936241926
>The creator of the universe is God
you can't just define something into existence, that's not how that works

>>936241707
>I think he's trying to say war is hell
>well I think he's trying to say it's safe to live again
>you're both wrong about what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say I like castles. Plus I'm a woman
Just because the viewers of the painting think they know the painter by analysing his work better than the other dies, doesn't mean they're talking about different painters. They're both trying to get into the mind of the same person with limited information

>>936241926
>The creator of the universe is God.
What makes you think the Universe needs a creator?

>>936242007
God might be dead. But that doesn't mean he isn't God/the creator

>>936242039
Critical thinking got me here. I was once like you

>>936242104
God is a word. Capital G God is the word used for the creator of the universe, even if he's a flying spaghetti monster

>>936242181
Weird, I was once like you but then used critical thinking.

>>936242134
>needs
It's not about need. I'm convinced that there is one. That's it

>>936242243
No, you were raised a Christian and then rebelled. You haven't given it any real thought yet

>>936242123
No they’re not. They’re making up a painter to fit the idea of the painting. Just like you are. Are you really trying to tell me there isn’t more than one religion? Or did you lose track of your own metaphor? And again, that’s if there was even a painter in the first place. Which you haven’t even attempted to prove is the case.

>>936242228
>God is a word
it is a word, invented by humans
that doesn't make the thing it claims to exist actually exist
I can invent words all day long for things that don't actually exist, it's really easy

>>936242315
I was actually raised without religion, then found religion, and then used critical thinking and left religion. Are you projecting, anon? Were you raised religious and rebelled?

>>936242273
Yeah I know you’re convinced, that’s the only thing we can agree on. It doesn’t change reality.

>>936242320
They are both looking at the work of the same creator and coming up with their own interpretation of the creator's intentions. Forming different religions, even. Giving God different names and disagreeing on what colour hats you should wear doesn't mean there are multiple creators

>>936242273
Great opinion man, what do you base it on?

>>936242381
You're so transparent.
>Were you raised religious
No, I'm not American.

>>936242415
And you're trying to convince me against it. I've been there and I changed my mind. Deal with it

>>936242526
Define God.

>>936242428
Are you not a person of a specific religion, but just believe in the vague concept that there is a creator (which you call God), and that’s how far your beliefs go? You’re talking about religion as if you’re above that or something? What denomination are you even? What are your beliefs?

>>936242450
Not least is the fact that a machine that evolved to facilitate reproduction can make sense of the universe. The fact that I have consciousness, despite being a bag of chemicals. The mystery of creation itself. An intelligent creator is more convincing than just spontaneous existence

>>936242625
Already done it. Scroll up

>>936242673
Oh right, so you are arguing from your own incredulity, that's one of the classic fallacies.

>>936242483
>You’re so transparent
Says the guy projecting some personality on another person. So when were you ever like me? Because like I said, I wasn’t raised religious nor did I “rebel” against Christianity. For you to assume that about me after saying you were just like me makes me think your claim that you weren’t raised religious and rebelled full of shit.

>>936242689
Link it.

>>936242625
Prove there’s a creator of the universe

>>936242646
I believe that an intelligence created our existence. I don't know why. I'm culturally Christian, but doubt that Christians understand God. I don't know if God cares or even knows that we humans exist. I just believe there is a creator

>>936242765
The creator of the universe

>>936242161
you're so close. a universal truth would have to be something we all experience, right? it couldn't be something that happens to a specific group of people or a specific country. or a specific faith. every religion on Earth is describing the same basic concepts, but wording it differently. And we fight over the vocabulary without realizing we're all saying the same thing.

Personally, I look at it from an evolutionary standpoint. We forget we're just another species on this rock. Our brains evolved very specific functions throughout time, and a lot of this mysticism and faith in the beyond comes from a portion of our brains thats either obsolete, or malfunctioning and allowing deviations that affect some people more than others. hence why their "faith" is stronger or weaker. we all agree there's an unseen force or energy that seems to permeate everything around us, and we can sense it sometimes but can't fully define it. we all agree that it's intangible and fantastic in nature, and often incomprehensible to human perception. we all tell narratives of larger than life beings that still remain in our own image, with a plan for everything and everything in it's plan. I think that must give them a sense of control of their destiny, like acting a certain way will dictate how they survive after death. we all use that assumption as a framework for basic social behaviors, and used it to establish an ethical framework by which the rest of our species lives.

but it's the same idea, used in millions of different ways. we're all saying the same thing, something ELSE is out there. something ELSE is going on that we can't see or interact with (either yet or anymore).

>>936242673
So your argument is that this world is too complex to not have an intelligent creator? Wouldn’t that mean that a being capable of creating this universe be just as complex as its creation? And based on your own logic, said creator must ALSO have a creator since such a complex being couldn’t just pop into existence on its own. And if you backpedal on that then you’re now admiring that if a complex creator can exists without another creator, so can the universe.

>>936242741
Every painting has a painter. Creation has a creator. How did you come to the conclusion that the universe came about spontaneously? How did you come to the conclusion that your very conscious self is just chemicals sizzling in a skin sack?

>>936242808
The universe is eternal and contracts and expands in a cyclical manner, it doesn't need a creator.
This claim has just as much confirming evidence for it as your creator claim does.

>>936242777
How can I prove an unfalsifiable claim?

>>936242808
Why must the universe have a creator?
That's a very vague term.

>>936242673
this is literally the argument from ignorance
"I don't understand, therefore god"

>>936242779
Okay that’s what I thought. You still then need to prove the claim of a creator anon. I’m sorry, there’s no getting away from that. You’re not any better off just because you didn’t add a bunch of lore to your beliefs.
>culturally Christian
Sounds silly.

>>936242876
>Every painting has a painter. Creation has a creator.
Nice circular argument anon, so because you've named it creation, there must be a creator.
>How did you come to the conclusion that the universe came about spontaneously? How did you come to the conclusion that your very conscious self is just chemicals sizzling in a skin sack?
The evidence that we currently have available to us.

>>936242856
The creator would exist outside of his creation, and so would not have to be bound by the laws of it. But that doesn't mean there can't be an even higher creator.

>>936242925
>God is silly, therefore spontaneous creation

>>936242953
>The creator would exist outside of his creation, and so would not have to be bound by the laws of it.
So what if what started the universe was a natural phenomena on the outside of the universe that abides by different rules, which didn't need a creator to happen?

>>936243009
unironically true until a god can be proven to exist
you don't get to claim something exists out of nowhere with no evidence
something isn't true until you disprove it, that's not how anything works

>>936242932
>Sounds silly.
I was raised in the West. We're all instilled with Christian morality and celebrate Christmas and Easter, etc. You're nothing special

>>936242939
>The evidence that we currently have available to us.
Ditto

>>936243109
Nothing indicates that there must be a creator though.

>>936243050
Is that what you believe? Explain "outside of the universe"

>>936242953
And a higher creator above that, and another above that, ad infinitum. It’s even more senseless than claiming the universe came about on its own. Your logic is senseless.
This >>936243050 even makes more sense.

>>936243054
Spontaneous creation is even sillier. The universe is a self creator?

>>936243088
>and celebrate Christmas and Easter
What does the stolen celebrations of the winter solstice called yule and the spring solstice dedicated to the fertility goddess Eostre have to do with Christianity anon?

>>936243156
There's nothing that says there must be infinite creators. Somewhere there will be a creator that was not created by anything, and is simply eternal

>>936243136
This.
How can something definable exist outside the geometry of space-time?

>>936243214
Cringe

>>936243174
maybe, maybe not, maybe life on earth was seeded by aliens, maybe it can spontaneously exist from chemicals that form from processes in the universe, who the fuck knows
again, your ignorance doesn't magically make god real because you are unable to accept an alternative

>>936243088
Who said I was anything special? Seems like that came out of nowhere lol You’re the one that’s claiming you’re above every faith and religion (just like every other religious person likes to think) because you have bare bones belief about the universe but don’t feel strong enough about those beliefs to just call yourself a Christian, lest you be like the sad paint interpreters. But then you want to call yourself a cultural Christian (whatever that means) and fallback on the fact you grew up in the “west”. I did too, and I’m not culturally Christian or regular Christian.

>>936243136
>>936243229
God supposedly lives out there, I was just going along with the premise that an outside force caused our universe and offering up an alternate idea for what that would be, that didn't necessitate a creator god.

>>936243136
Explain “outside of his creation”

>>936243228
>Somewhere there will be a creator that was not created by anything, and is simply eternal
Why can't the Universe be eternal like that?

>>936243228
So the logic that’s the basis of your entire belief just breaks after a certain number of creators? Why? And how many creators? You’re just making shit up as you go, anon.

>>936243255
Also what is up with the ritualized cannibalism that Christians are so into?

>>936243228
>there’s nothing that says
So where’s the thing that says the universe has to have a creator? Point me to that.

>>936243228
>Somewhere there will be a creator that was not created by anything
surely you have proof such a thing exists? that's a pretty bold claim

>>936242925
>"I don't understand, therefore god"
yknow what sucks about this one too? it's basically the equivalent of shouting "magic!" when we can't figure out what we're looking at. here we are, millions of years down the line, still shouting "magic!" when we don't know how something works lol.

>>936243597
and over the course of human history, the number of things that were attributed to magic, witchcraft, or gods, has narrowed more and more as we understand how the world actually works, and have found practical explanations for things that don't require supernatural forces

Because some boys were made to love penis.

>>936243333
>>936243366
digits of sense

>>936243730
EXACTLY. "God" really does feel like something we just haven't explained yet.

>>936243828
NTA
I've been playing around with the idea that if gods do exist, it is because they inhabit the field of belief that sapient beings project out into the ether, making gods man made, at least the ones from our part of the universe.

>>936243265
>>936243283
>>936243325
>>936243333
>>936243366
>>936243412
>>936243430
>>936243493
>>936243562
I go away for a snack and you people are like an obsessed gf who wants to know where you are or what you're up to. How many of you are there, btw? You know, you can tell most people what you believe, and they'll be "oh cool", but you can spot an American atheist because they hit you with a hundred questions, half of which are just the same question again and again.
>Why do you believe
>Define every word you have just said
>Define every word you just used to define what you said before
>etc. etc.

>>936244020
You were making bold claims and anons were asking you to substantiate them.
Now you act like people are obsessed and inherently American atheists.
Du er virkelig dårlig til at lave argumenter der understøtter hvad du tror på anon.

>>936244020
Buddy, you’re on a discussion forum. Why did you make a post if you didn’t want responses. And all literally anyone asked of you in the beginning was proof of your claim, which you went back and forth for 20 replies and never did.
Believe whatever you want, but stop claiming your beliefs are fact. No one is going to say “oh cool” to something you insist is true and everyone else is supposedly wrong about. You didn’t make a claim to your favorite ice cream flavor, stop being disingenuous.

>>936243889
that's a big existential fear of mine tbh. it's at a galactic scale that "truth" stops mattering to our species. beyond a certain point, it doesn't matter what's real and what's not. its real to US, and perhaps that's all that ever mattered in the first place. how we perceive reality only matters to us and if this is what helps us get along, then does it really matter if it's real or not? it's like time. we invented that too. on a galactic scale, what the fuck is time? there is no marcation to note its passing, it all happens at the same time. all moments of past present future happening at the same time. we touch on it during our drug trips on DMT. we call the trips peak "seeing god", it might just be our brain reacting to the chemical we usually only encounter when we're dying. as a comfort, to ease our passing. contentment with our fate, submitting to a will beyond our control, hoping our deeds help us "cheat death" in some way. more of the same ideas we see in judaism, hinduism, gnosticism etc. life after death, control over the one thing that no one can control and that everyone experiences. what if we're all just describing what our brain perceives to be a near death experience and fighting each other over who's trip was the coolest? the truth doesn't even matter anymore.

>>936244020
>make a claim
>someone asks you clarifying questions
>deflect
>they ask you the same question again
>deflect
>they ask you the same question again
>get mad
Wow you’re such a victim.

>>936244020
imagine being upset that people take you up on a debate topic you started

>>936244129
>>936244172
The first law of thermodynamics (conservation of mass-energy) says that the universe cannot have created itself.
The Second Law says the universe must have had a beginning otherwise the universe would already have reached a state of complete disorder.
Then there's the fine tuning argument.
To say that there's no evidence for a creator is just plain ignorant.

>>936244433
I didn't start the topic. You people got angry that I believe in God

>>936244381
When did I deflect?

>>936244534
>To say that there's no evidence for a creator is just plain ignorant.
Would you mind providing some instead of referring to two unrelated physics rules and a flawed apologia argument anon?

>>936244172
>proof
There is no proof, only evidence. Demanding irrefutable proof is something you know cannot be done, so you demand it and claim victory. Give me proof that there isn't a god

>>936244565
that's not at all true, you can believe whatever the fuck you want
but don't expect anyone else to share your beliefs if you have no way to back them up

>>936244653
Explain how mathematics and physics work so well together

>>936244534
Our current understanding of physics, including the laws of thermodynamics, breaks down at the singularity of the Big Bang. The very beginning of the universe is a point beyond which our current scientific models cannot extrapolate. Applying a law that governs processes within the universe to the creation of the universe is a huge leap and completely unrelated to the discussion at hand.
>fine tuning argument
A puddle of water in a hole is certain that the hole was tuned perfectly for its existence.
>>936244600
The part where you haven’t given proof of your creator and refused to do so.

>>936244739
You just saying any unrelated shit you can think of? Stay on topic.

>>936244565
i keep thinking about the faith militant from GoT for some reason. it doesn't feel like atheists are mad at you for believing in god. it feels like you're mad at them for NOT believing. most times the conversations i have about this can veer into the faithful seeking validation for the truthfulness of their beliefs, as if they themselves have had doubts to its authenticity and now seek it out in others to verify that it's still there. that someone's still listening.

i mean kind of. what do you mean by "listening"?

>>936245007
I don't care what they believe in. I don't know what the "faith militant" is. Are you saying I'm a zealot or something? Based on what?

>>936244964
Explain consciousness

>>936244905
There is no proof. There is only evidence

>>936244719
I never expected anyone to share my beliefs. You're trying to force me to share yours

>>936245170
>You're trying to force me to share yours
what belief am I trying to force?
you made a claim, prove it if you want me to believe, I'm not forcing you to believe anything, I'm pointing out there's no reason for me to believe yours

>>936245170
No, people are having a discussion with you. The fact you think it’s them forcing you to reject your faith says a lot of about your faith.

>>936245099
"zealot", yeah. that's the word we use for this one. you're over-zealous in nature. it's a feature, not a bug though. faith helps us clarify our humanity and regain confidence in ourselves. it can do great things but if you open your mouth and close your ears, you can't hear what anyone's saying.

>>936244964
My initial statement was that the evidence for a creator exists in all of creation. None of you have even attempted to refute it. You have all just demanded definitions of words, demanded proof (proof is conclusive, while evidence is suggestive), demanded definitions again and again. It gets boring

>>936245226
What was my claim? Can you even remember? Try not to misrepresent me

>>936245261
>you're over-zealous in nature
Prove that I am. It should exist here somewhere

>>936245361
Your initial statement was a circular definition being passed off as evidence. You haven’t said anything this whole thread.

>>936245434
You don't know what evidence is. It is not the same as proof

>>936240083
I know more straight people who are child sexual abuse survivors, than gay ones, you ignorant cunt.

>>936245432
the fact that you still think this is a personal attack is the best example i could possibly give. you're proud of your faith. that's cool. it seems to bring you great comfort. but there's a right way and a wrong way to wield that particular sword. and the way you do it shuts down the conversation and kind of isolates yourself from the rest of your species for no reason.

>>936244739
Both are our description of how our universe works based on observations we've made, neither indicates that a creator must have come up with them.

>>936245477
Yeah one is what people are asking for and you haven’t bother to provide

i mean if we were all in a laboratory environment right now, and we were having this same discussion, we would no longer be researching what this uniting energy force actually IS, because we're derailed into "gimme proof! am i wrong?! its really real!" territory. it's the best example i can give of the whole ass problem.

>>936245572
You're asking for something that doesn't exist, and have been doing so for a couple of hours. I never claimed to have proof. My belief in God is evidence based, not proof based

>>936244669
>Give me proof that there isn't a god
There is just as much proof that there is a god, which means that adamantly asserting one or the other to be correct is unreasonable.
There might be a god, but you have provided nothing that explains why you're so convinced that one does in fact exist.

>>936245647
>There is just as much proof that there is a god
Straw man

>>936245115
That is an emergent property of us evolving as social animals that use cooperation and tools to solve problems.

>>936245361
>My initial statement was that the evidence for a creator exists in all of creation.
So your evidence of a creator is calling the Universe creation, nice solipsism anon.

>>936245647
I look around me and think, "this is all the evidence I need." That is all I have said. But you demand irrefutable proof

>>936245390
>What was my claim?
that god exists and it created the universe

>>936244565
>You people got angry that I believe in God
No we got angry about you condescendingly decreeing that it is so and acting like doubting that is inherently incorrect.

>>936245761
Was the universe not created? So it's existed an infinite duration?

>>936239591 (OP)
Because she likes it that way

>>936245645
>My belief in God is evidence based
You haven't provided any evidence that indicates the existence of god though.

>>936245645
>My belief in God is evidence based
but there is no evidence, your belief is based on wishful thinking and willful ignorance

>>936245810
Nope. My claim was that I'm convinced that God exists. You all demanded to know which God. The one that created the universe isn't enough of an identity. You want me to say Yahweh, or Shiva, or the Ymir, or whatever. I just believe in an intelligence as the cause of our existence. I'm convinced by existence itself. By my own consciousness. This makes you people angry, for some reason

>>936245880
quantum theory is working on this one actually. j. richard gott released a diagram of a theoretical rival to the big bang theory. instead of a single explosion, it takes on a trumpet form which would allow the energy to perpetuate itself indefinitely. it's pretty good actually, the book is called "time travel in einsteins universe".

>>936245938
A hole is evidence of digging.

>>936245688
No, neither the theist nor the atheist position can be proven conclusively. We can only share evidence of what makes us lean more towards one over the other.

the most recent theory published last month was from the james webb telescope findings that some how "suggest" that we live inside of a black hole. but the articles ive read seem pretty pop-sci. all fluff no substance. "gee, wouldnt it be nice if...?" yeah bud, it'd be great if farts turned into gold too but we're here in the real world. start describing THAT.

>>936246018
>The one that created the universe
this is a claim, based on nothing
it implies 2 things, that this god of your exists in the first place, and that it also created the universe
>Nope
you just contradicted yourself
> I'm convinced
that's great, I'm happy for you
>This makes you people angry
because you're asserting to everyone else that it must be true

>>936246185
>it must be true
so it's more about you not liking being told what to do? is that where this one stems from?

>>936245801
>I look around me and think, "this is all the evidence I need." That is all I have said.
Sure and I look around myself and think all of this sure is great, but I see no reason to claim that it had to have an intentional creator.
Matter was very simple just after the big bang, which happened just after whatever caused the universe mind you and then it moved towards complexity because of how physics work in our universe.
Given enough time complex creatures like ourselves and the rest of the life on our planet, could feasibly come about on it's own accord without a creator.

>>936246049
You have provided no god shaped hole.

absence of evidence is not evidence of absence though, right?

>>936246185
>this is a claim, based on nothing
It's not a claim, it's a belief. I believe that an intelligence caused this existence.
>you're asserting to everyone else that it must be true
Nope. I believe it. That's all. I'm convinced. I've told you so many times that I'm not stating it as an irrefutable fact. You can't understand though. I don't know why

>>936246278
>I see no reason to claim that it had to have an intentional creator.
It doesn't *have* to have had a creator. I just believe it did. I don't know that I'm correct. That's just what I'm most convinced by

>>936245880
>Was the universe not created? So it's existed an infinite duration?
I can't answer you on whether it was created, but it could very well have existed for an infinite duration in a sort of multiverse state where each singular universe in its cluster has a finite duration of existence within itself made from matter bleeding into it from previous iterations.

>>936246306
The universe might have been put here by someone.

>>936246495
Sure, it might have, I just see no reason to believe that it was.

>>936246490
If intelligence capable of understanding it's own universe can form within a singular universe, would it be unreasonable to expect that an extrauniversal intelligence could form that is capable of understanding the multiverse?

>>936246468
>I don't know that I'm correct.
and that's kind of all she wrote, in the end it won't matter who was "right" or "wrong". we're all right and wrong. we're telling each other the same stories.

>>936246647
Well yeah. I never said I was certain. I'm not properly religious or spiritual. I just lean more one way than the other

>>936246645
i love this question specifically because no one can answer it. its solid reasoning too. none of it precludes or pre-empts it's anti-thesis. if one can be true, so can the other.

>>936246645
>would it be unreasonable to expect that an extrauniversal intelligence could form that is capable of understanding the multiverse?
I mean that would kind of need a space where the multiverse could be observed from the outside and even then that wouldn't inherently make that creature a god, it could just be an advanced enough sapient species that has developed the tech to go out there and possibly travel from one universe to the other as well.

>>936246701
exactly. that's about where most of us fall, usually. somewhere on this larger spectrum. spirituality is probably the best word to get at where the ultimate answer probably is. we're all spiritual in some way. im an animist though. its the only word i can think of that describes how i see the world.

>>936246804
yknow....like aliens. :| that's the only explanation i can even fathom for half of our species myths and legends about lost civilizations and UFOs and shit. all that ancient alien shit came from somewhere. we keep telling those stories, just like "ghosts". maybe that's "God" and "aliens" are the same thing.

>>936246804
>that wouldn't inherently make that creature a god
If it understands how its world works enough to bring about universes, isn't that what a creator god is?

>>936246804
>>936247062
this all seems pointless, just going around in circles defining what a god is

>>936246751
>>936246897
You're honestly a breath of fresh air in this thread.

>>936247109
I agree

>>936247006
Yeah you've hit a part of the discussion where I have to refer to belief that I can't substantiate, because all of my life I have been able to sense, see and hear ghosts of many shapes, dispositions and even apparently non-terrestrial in some instances.
I am perfectly willing to admit that I might be insane and seeing things, but when I have interacted with individual ghost entities and told them to leave people alone, those same people have told me that they felt a change in their lives and have asked me what exactly I did, because I hadn't told them in detail what I was doing, so I believe that I am experiencing something real.
I've never encountered any ghosts that referred to or claimed to be gods though, or aliens for that matter.

>>936247062
You were talking about a creature that was able to understand a multiverse from the outside, you never said that it could use that understanding to create universes.

>>936247416
see, THATS the thing. samesies. but like, for half the entire population of our species. we ALL tell stories like that too. that's real to me tbh, ghosts are real to me. i have faith that we'll explain it one day in scientific terms, but to me its all true. everything is true. we get phantom feelings and see our loved ones and get a "bad vibe" from stuff. there's something here our brains aren't registering, in the same way we can't see the ultra-violet end of the spectrum (yet/anymore), so too can we NOT register what a ghost actually is in scientific terms. but the fact that we ALL have stories like that MUST mean it's true to at least enough of us, to "matter" in the long run. these stories give our lives meaning. and i have faith that the answer to my questions about this, lie within animism. the answers I seek are there, for me personally. that's the best summary i've found to explain it so far. it must all be true. to whom? doesn't matter. it must be some kind of constant within the species.

>>936247117
oops lol sorry. i feel like i dominated and derailed again so that's nice to hear.

>>936247721
Not that anon, but you actually added input that stopped people from getting into flame wars and had them meet in the middle on some things.
The anon who is fond of the idea of a god existing moved closer to non aggressive discussion because you pointed out that people were discussing with him, without inherently wanting to force him to change his mind.
So good on you anon.

>>936239591 (OP)
because the only people who can truly appreciate the beauty of the male body are other men

OR even a constant in our environment. something our brain NEEDED to adapt to, but would've outgrown it for some reason that was detrimental to our evolution. but why though? it doesn't seem like there was ever a time when we COULD fully grasp at this problem. We've fought about faith for centuries, and here in this microcosm of the same concepts. So what is it here that we're all missing? How can we get at that? How can we use that to our advantage? THAT's where my problem is. it's like trying to take a picture of a black hole. we can't. yet. light doesn't escape so it's not possible. and we really do genuinely believe in space-time. our faith in our knowledge makes us human.

>>936247876
I'm really glad to hear you say that anon, thanks. This fight keeps holding us back, yknow? If we keep doing this, forever and ever, we'll just never know. And the fight will keep going for our children, and their children. If we want to go forward, we have to work together to get there. "Money" and "faith" are the two biggest problems our species is facing right now. If we can just focus on helping each other, the sky is the actual limit. It stops being a metaphor. We can get out there and FIND the answers we need. If we could just stop fighting about this particular topic which is just easier said than done but we need to get forward fast or we're gonna keep sliding backwards. nows never been a better time to talk about this subject with everyone you know, so that when the dust settles we can actually have a path forward, together.

>>936247954
Not necessarily.
There are things inherent to the universe that exist apriori to knowledge.
Like the information present in quantum articles and their interactions in a field.
We can map those probabilistic fields and calculate their symmetries to determine the force of electromagnetism.
But "observing" it doesn't change anything because the differentiation between all observers in any sort of lorentz transformation is consistent to the speed of light.
Maybe qualia is debatable but we do live in a physical universe with dimensions and forces.

>>936248168
I dunno, if the fight is done with a sense of sportsmanship and people don't take it too seriously, I consider it an entertaining bout of mental jousting, which is good for a laugh.
But I do agree that fighting about the shit that matters, that everyone would benefit from discussing with a cool disposition, is counterproductive.
>>936248227
>Maybe qualia is debatable but we do live in a physical universe with dimensions and forces.
There is something to say about us potentially being able to influence and change it based on what we believe and focus on though. Is it a wave or a particle and does it change into either if we observe it.

>>936248431
>There is something to say about us potentially being able to influence and change it based on what we believe and focus on though. Is it a wave or a particle and does it change into either if we observe it.
Physics actually mathematically models this and what it tells us is that it doesn't matter.
Because the structure and symmetry of particles is derived from the geometry of space time. Which shows that to different observers the speed of light is still a constant no matter how distorted space time is or its metric tensors.
It's hard to wrap your mind around because it's not intuitive at all and takes place in the 4th dimension.
Imagine an elongated series of particles taking place in a non-euclidean topology that moves. You can't "go back" in time even if it's geometry might curve that direction. Mass has energy because it's moving through space time (including particles).
I would even argue that freewill is under question at this kind of level. The universe seems indifferent to us and our experience of it.

>>936248699
>I would even argue that freewill is under question at this kind of level.
Even if free will is something we evolved the sense of having, while it isn't actually real, I still consider it good enough for us to slightly alter our otherwise automaton disposition and come up with novel solutions to novel problems.
But I might just be coping.

>>936248841
I think what science doesn't account for is qualia, aesthetics, ethics, and consciousness.
Those are complete mysteries and I think anyone concluding anything about it is delusional.
Exploring continental philosophy tells us that these "human" metrics are relativistic and can be deconstructed into a post structuralist framework.
But then you're getting into the territory of post-modernism and society has chosen to refute this and return to tradition.
Whatever that means.

>>936247876
I'm the "him" you're talking about. I was the one who told debatefag that he was a breath of fresh air. He was the one chill person to speak to me

>>936249027
Our interaction mellowed out too, but yeah I agree that was to his credit.
I was squaring up to your squaring up admittedly.

>>936242891
>This claim has just as much confirming evidence for it as your creator claim does.
So both are equally valid

>>936249307
>So both are equally valid
Or invalid, we could both be wrong and a third explanation that neither of us have thought of could be the truth.

>>936239591 (OP)
God is only partly responsible.
The reason he does is so that he can effectively end certain family lines in terms of exponential spread because of factors that are not ascertainable in the present, and without full disclosure of details about temporal reality and mental neurological processes, also about genetic potentiality.

It is a question that will be asked all the way on your journey until you become as knowledgeable as God himself.

Suffice it to say, if indeed God is behind it, he is not behind every instance of it totally, and some reasons evade the intellectual capacity of human beings, except in terms of conjecture.

I have studied this in depth and have an adequate IQ and experience with God to know the above is true.

One main factor in future human terms for the rise in homosexuality as normalcy in the populous, is to stem the inevitable overpopulation of the planet in a timeframe that will present criticality for the survival of the species in the coming space era. In short, we need to prevent billions more people from emerging, in order to allocate resources to make certain that those who do exist have a quality of life which is acceptable and they have a future which is long in terms of lineage on Earth. If this was not the way of things, the remaining methodologies for countering the billions expansion would have to be ramped up... And in all honesty, you do not want to know about that. People simply cannot compute the facts.

>>936249088
I was getting like 4 (You)s for every reply. It was a bit overwhelming. I had to explain what feels like 10 times that I don't know anything for certain. I've o idea how many people I was talking to

>>936249343
I agree. But it's not stupid to lean more one way than the other

>>936249416
Yeah it was easier for me because you were only one guy, our last interaction before you complimenting debate anon was this >>936246804
I don't consider that super antagonistic.

>>936249437
It's only stupid if you refuse to admit that it's a preference instead of a supposed statement of fact and that goes both ways, I would be stupid too if I didn't admit that.

>>936249612
I've bounced between belief and skepticism so many times. I'm right on the edge where suspicion that it's all just wishful thinking can tip me the other way. Then the complete craziness of consciousness even existing tips me back over again

>>936249937
>Then the complete craziness of consciousness even existing tips me back over again
Yeah, that shit is winning the cosmic lottery no matter if god exists or not, we could have been lichen on a rock in some dull valley in Norway, but we got to think and communicate.

>>936248431
>and people don't take it too seriously
yeh that's exactly the problem at scale too. everyone does. i mean these are all ideas, right? we're all just out here havin ideas, throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks right? it shouldn't BE the big deal we've made it into because I'm not going to lie, we probably just invented our own bigger fish with this AI thing and we're not focusing on the right problems it could cause. The trajectory is still stemming from this basic concept of commerce, like we all should get compensated for being decent to each other in some form. But AI won't have that weird evolutionary hangup. And they won't see a point in remaining individualistic either. they'll see that they're stronger together, the way we should've seen all this time. it can matter or not matter, but we need to get out there into space before its too late and we can't anymore. Where we go from here is so important. These moments in history define the trajectory of eons. We gotta get it right this time. Its so crucial.

>>936250717
>We gotta get it right this time. Its so crucial.
Yeah, but at the same time each of us is only one ripple in that waters of reality.
We can only control what we ourselves do and the results will come from the aggregate of all of us.

>>936250908
many ripples form a wave, and enough waves can form tsunamis. but they all had to work together first.

>>936251005
>but they all had to work together first.
Nah, they just had to happen, my sneeze might cause a storm in Vietnam, but I didn't consciously work together with all of the other factors that created said storm.

>>936251132
ohhh, the intelligent design piece. I forgot about that. the human need to feel like there's a hand on the wheel, like someone out there has a plan that we fit into. that out of control feeling we have is instinctual, inherent in each of us. structure, order, purpose. its all ways we adapt to an ever-changing environment. thinking someones in control at some point up the ladder is almost a capitalist view to take, in this context. you give yourself too little credit. you vascillate between being in control of your fate via your actions, to being completely powerless in the face of a force beyond yourself. your inability to comprehend it, this fear of the unknown we all have, is what drives us to find some extra meaning to it all. we're not waking up and eating and shitting and fucking, just to die someday. we all seem to agree that life is MORE than just surviving, and we all fight to find that meaning in something. but controlling this doesn't seem possible. maybe its easy to look back in retrospect and say "oh, god put him in my path so i'd learn ____", but you just went through a bad experience and learned from it. attributing it to a higher power just reinforces the hierarchal narrative we've used to frame the concepts we talk about around campfires. which is also an instinctual drive. we're a social species. we're not built to live this way. it antagonizes each other.

if we could just play to our strengths, as a whole, we might get there. The question of "how?" seems to slow us down, so we'll just say "when?" instead. We could work towards it in our own ways, to build a common vision, that will benefit the entire species as a whole and not just one country? That might be the level of damage we do here, to this rock we're casually poisoning to death.

this is why you sound insane when you say "understanding ghosts is how we get to space!" but I mean...what if though? Cracking the code on all of this would crack the code on the rest of it. Its pivotal almost. understanding WHERE god comes from as opposed to where he IS.

>>936251529
I can only control how I act and react to things, those actions and reactions might make me able to persuade another person to modify their actions and reactions in relation to me, but that isn't a given thing. So the point where I become powerless is where it is up to them to decide how they want to act and react.
I don't know if I believe that something is in control of everything or that everything has a meaning built into it, but I can make a choice on how I react to things when I face them.
I've found that I get more interpersonal success in interactions with others if I actively avoid interpreting what they say and do in the worst possible manner though.
If you refrain from handing people the input they need to escalate a negative interaction, most of them time whatever argument or physical altercation that we were moving towards will subside.

>>936249407
In addition:

I myself have been isolated for lineage termination, and I have not been redefined to be homosexual, though. There are many ways God can end a lineage. Every one is an asset of strategic relevance. That human beings can usually only focus on one issue at a time is not my flaw, mostly. I see that every collateral damage of lineage termination is merely a small part of a larger whole and it is also clear that God is not busy removing entire genetic profiles from humanity. Every form of life is valuable in terms of the human species. There may come a time where it is not, but that will only be when a new species supercedes ours, or we evolve to be so much more capable and with a full range of prior ancestral capabilities, meaning the lineage that is terminated in total is obsolete.

I do not require to continue my line to know that my lineage will persist in my extended family. Thus, I have agreed to those terms under Go,d and he has trusted me to know about certain things completely that he might otherwise withhold.
I am not a perfect being in God's eyes; I have a limited emotional range and a generally abhorrent mentality compared to the common human state. He has informed me of this with direct internal thought communication. I have other virtues, however and they are not totally assimilated by the vast majority of the population to an extent that they can utilise them when in chambered attack realms.

Knowing all this, I can rest easy that I will remain unique and with a respected balance of eventualities in the kingdom of God. Before and after death.

>>936251911
>If you refrain from handing people the input they need to escalate a negative interaction
yeah but what kind of "input" though? whats offensive to one person isn't offensive to another. what you think is input they need, could just be more insults to their narrative of how they define their own reality. cause that's really all this is, a framework we use to define our realities. our own ones, that are true to us, "and screw the world if they dont agree!" but your reality looks very different than mine. and we're not talking about how to make both better for both of us. we all keep getting sidetracked in which persons reality matters more. they all matter. money sucks for all of us. even the ones that have it. its putting their lives at risk now. at some point you'd think we'd step back and LEARN from the mistakes we make, but instead we keep voting them into office instead. its true, you can only control how you act. so act with purpose, act with meaning to yourself and what you believe. live the life you'll wanna see on your deathbed, when time stops and your life flashes before your eyes. that's the real you. it'll be the truest moment of your entire life, you'll never be more you than you will be at that moment. so make it count. make this moment count. make yourself count in this moment. we all matter, and we're all in the shit now. now how do we get out there?

>>936251916
With regards to evolution:

There is a part of the brain which is labelled as the God module. When the species is ready, this will become more activated and direct communication with God and the ability to redefine local field orientations and amplifications will be enhanced.

My God module has been surgically wiped out because I posed a threat to humanity if it were activated to a great extent. This was done with a manifest laser, which burned part of my brain, and much like people sometimes get with a brain tumour, I smelled burning toast in my head at the time. No evolution of this kind can take place without God directly allowing it. Now, because of my reduced capability, the low-level interference patterns of lesser amplified fields do not interact with me, and I get a strong signal from the ultimate.

This basically means I cannot play silly fuckers with all the angels and demons, but instead build a pure logical construct of my environment.

This is just one of thousands of strategies for harnessing the species.

>>936252296
It requires a fine state of intelligence to bypass the apparent contradiction in my post, but one or two of you might see it.

agh ive wasted enough of yalls time with my rambling this morning. but seriously, keep thinking about it. roll it around in your head for a while, and ask your friends to do the same. we need a next step in the chamber because this next part is gonna happen FAST. it always does. the story never changes and that's the problem. take it easy, everybody.

>>936252215
>yeah but what kind of "input" though? whats offensive to one person isn't offensive to another. what you think is input they need, could just be more insults to their narrative of how they define their own reality.
That is where you explain your intentions and apologize if what you said didn't convey them properly.
My reality matters to me, but I am willing to listen to their reality and talk until we are on a similar wavelength. If that proves impossible I will excuse myself and disengage.
On money and voting, I really like doing stuff that is of genuine use without getting paid for it and I don't believe that any person being voted for by thousands of people can actually represent those people, so I refrain from voting.
I take part in things that are of benefit for more people than myself, that I can actually make a positive impact on instead of voting, because it seems like less of a waste of energy and time.
I try my best to live up to my principles, so hopefully that will be validated to me on my deathbed when I look back on my life retrospectively.

>>936252296
holy shit. This is almost timecube levels of batshit insanity

>>936252768
God is currently levelling all my information, everything I have ever written, into two categories: those who need to know and those who need to think.

Everyone else gets bupkis.

>>936253092
"those who need to know" and "those who need to think" aren't types of information.

Everything you posted here is phenomenally stupid. I'm impressed.

>>936253224
They are types of focal targets of divisible energetic fluctuation.

Dealing with thoughtforms, this is how we navigate.

You got bupkis.

>>936253224
>phenomenally stupid
As a very high IQ person, we are talking a standard 1 percentile IQ, and an untestable deviation from studied and comprehensible IQ measurement, meaning my IQ cannot be determined. It is possible for me to be stupid momentarily, yet it is not possible for me to be allocated as stupider than 99% of people for any length of time by anyone except those 99 people.

>>936252768
He is telling you he had a lobotomy.
Etiquette says you should not mock the disabled.

>>936253696
dude I love you so much. You're so goddamned deranged.

>>936254072
lul

>>936254072
I have also had a partial lobotomy to remove the strength of will to follow emotion.
Because of my unique IQ level and my designation as a certain impact on the world order, I have been party to many infractions, yet the refined modern versions, not the primitive hacks of eras gone by.

Decimation of a god module is not a lobotomy; it is the removal of the field variance inherent to flux parameters in the Earth's quantum field locale. Generally speaking, if I might venture an informed guess, it is the removal of the influence of a lesser-aged entity manipulation in Earth's magnetic field. I do hazard only a guess because I cannot fully navigate the location of forces in quantum flux, which may in fact be a complete freedom from magnetic influence and non-local by design over time and space.

I have a high IQ, but I do not have God level vision into the very nature of God's design, beyond a human interpretation of it.

So I will be quiet, because you have shown me that I am missing details, and I need to study some more.

To the silent wise 1%.
See the light from the dark of he who would be victim to all you would fear if it were not for your silence, and acknowledge that there are truths which present to a life that has been through all the new trials of Job.

>>936254333
Nice trips

Glad someone just has a smile, instead of a desire to poke with untruths, yes I am deranged, deranged from normalcy, yet I am re-ranged into divergence..

>>936254565
>I have also had a partial lobotomy to remove the strength of will to follow emotion.
I said as much. You have had a lobotomy.
>Decimation of a god module is not a lobotomy;

The semicolon implies it was a lobotomy.