I will come off as a neckbeard, but I'm not trying to. Why? Why do people NEED religion? I noticed that the less intelligent a person is, the likelier a person will jump to religion for solace. I'm not against religion, I'm against the stupidity that if there is a god that he gives a shit about anything we do. I'm not Anti-God, I'm anti-religion because everything about religion is so culty and then shuns you if you do something they dont like.

God, I feel like such a neckbeard, but I dont know where to talk about this.

>>936430674
I've never met a drag queen try indoctrinate kids. This drag queen isn't even bad. He's a chill dude who has a hobby.

>>936430599 (OP)
Understanding the universe is so complex that it's an impossible task for any single human to accomplish.
Most people need something to help them shit, eat, and pay taxes and make sense of it. And if it's working for them, then everyone else should be doing it or else they're obviously evil.
Just go explore the most advanced topics in any academic field and you'll begin to see how hopeless it is to actually understand anything let alone everything.
Nature is more complex than mythology so people cling to that instead of being humble and admitting that reality is beyond the scope of their comprehension.

>>936430776
So they make up fairytales to cope

>>936430842
Yes.
Go explore quantum field theory or general relativity using metric tensors and you'll begin to see why your average mortal believes in what they do.
No human "understands" any of this. Even the smartest among us are just as fucking confused by existence/natures as your average Zen master/yogi/pastor/rabbi/whatever.

>>936430949
I know where my intelligence lies. I am not smart enough to understand quantum stuff but I'm smart enough to program my microwave and know to hold down 2 to turn off the beep.

>>936431008
Here's worse part, it doesn't matter.
Even the most brilliant minds among us cannot understand how to unify quantum field theory with general relativity.
Even the most brilliant algebraic geometrists who apply higher dimensional topology to space-time just form further conjecture.
It doesn't matter is my deeper point. I don't even fucking understand it lol.
The universe is intuitive and evidently knowable. It's something so beyond our current metrics and models and alien from outer space may as well fucking help us.
Some sandnigger in the middle east arguing about the name of God is trying his best in his own way.

>>936430599 (OP)
Honestly you don't "sound like a neckbeard." Your answer is as follows:

People are inherently tribal and, since the 1950s, atheism has been lumped into the communist camp because it was the defacto position of people who weren't successful or well liked in modern society. On par with the identity politics of the left (that later became our current status quo), the idea was that atheists were embraced by the left and shunned by the right.

That was almost 100 years ago. The lines have blurred. Republicans largely still don't accept atheists, which is why there are so many people in the fitness community / right wing community that can't understand how belief in god doesn't necessarily mean you're a tranny, want to fuck kids, or have poor taste in art. Case in point: >>936430674


This answers your question. Atheists don't offer a community or a real identity because an absence of belief in god or deities is the absence of an identity. People run to religion because it has thousands of years of culture, food, rituals, customs, music, art, and a huge tribe behind it. Atheist groups are usually out of shape autistic nerds who mistake being mid-witts for being geniuses.

>>936431300
>Atheist groups are usually out of shape autistic nerds who mistake being mid-witts for being geniuses.
You're coping.

It's all fucking fake and Jewish. Also, to the faggot niggers that say "without religion, people will become degenerates" fail to mention the kikes that wrote the Bible are the same people that promote degeneracy. You see being played.

>>936430949
>Even the smartest among us are just as fucking confused by existence/natures as your average Zen master/yogi/pastor/rabbi/whatever.

Not even close. And this magical thinking illustrates the separation of the educated from those who cling to the bonds of ignorance and superstition.

>>936431354
>You're coping.

You didn't read my full post. I am an oldfag atheist who has already gone through of all of this. I've been in and left those groups. I know exactly what they are.

People want a tribe. And when your identifying characteristic is being an atheist, the tribe you find is culturally and temporally located with a bunch of peggy hills. It sucks and the good people eventually grow out of it.

>>936431365
Ok then unify quantum mechanics into general relativity into a theory of everything and we'll ship you your Nobel prize.
Now I'd you're argument is,
>Physicists are less clueless than religious leaders about reality.
Then no shit.

>>936431436
I did read it and I don't give a shit that you're an oldfag because I've been using the internet since totse so suck my anus.
>People want to belong
Who cares. Appealing to normies is a waste of energy.

>>936431439
This is literally the god of the gaps argument. It's idiotic and you're not understanding my point.

You don't have to understand the complexity of the entire universe and have every mystery of reality solved to know the world isn't ruled by magical forces. There are clearly natural explanations for all of this and, short of a Cartesian daemon causing us all to live in the matrix, those natural explanations are correct.

All the arguments for god's existence are asked and answered. They're fallacies at best. Totally unreasonable at worse.

Even so, you're just basically trolling OP's thread. He doesn't want to turn this into bible debate. He's asking why people need religion, and my response is that people generally need a tribe. It's exacerbated by the identity politics we've been doing in America since the time of Bernays, and it was intensified when atheism was attached to communism in the 1950s.

>>936431489
That's funny, I was also on Totse. and you sound a lot like Snoopy right now, who I also hated because he was a colossal fag who also didn't read any of the arguments he dismissed without evidence.

>Who cares. Appealing to normies is a waste of energy.

It's the answer to OP's question you insufferable faggot. It's what we're talking about.

>>936430599 (OP)
>I noticed that the less intelligent a person is, the likelier a person will jump to religion for solace. I'm not against religion, I'm against the stupidity that if there is a god that he gives a shit about anything we do.
First of all, you don't even know what planet you're on, so why should anyone take you seriously?

Bottom line: This planet is Bozrah, not Earth. Read this post...

https://x.com/elitefeat/status/1799553063390154856
============================
This planet is not Earth. It is Bozrah.

Earth is another planet about 75,000 light years from here, whereas this planet is merely an impostor planet that calls itself "Earth." Big difference. And trust me, I know how to count to 10 seconds, ACCURATELY. What used to be 10.00 seconds (for me) is now a whopping 15.00 seconds! If you don't believe me, see Matthew 24:22 and Revelation 8:12. For the natives, though, the speed of time here has always been the same.

If you are a Bozrah native, you are in serious trouble. The people of this planet must acknowledge that Bozrah is not Earth and that Jesus is coming to destroy it. Otherwise, don't expect God to save you.
============================

And keep in mind: The event in which Jesus destroys this planet is called "the day of vengeance." There will be no 7-year Tribulation or Antichrist here—because this planet isn't Earth. It's Bozrah.

>>936431795
Take your fucking meds retard.

>>936430599 (OP)
Normies need religion because without it they default to ever more retarded shit like blm and LGBT.

>>936431489
Totse wasn't even that old. What are you like 30?

I mean it's cool to see another person who used it on 4chan but you're giving it a really bad name by being so cringey and incapable of making a basic point.

>>936430674
FPBP honestly just judge atheism by its fruits; stupidity and degeneracy

>>936431663
No because that's a circular argument.
>All the arguments for god's existence are asked and answered. They're fallacies at best.
They're unfalsifiable.
You're trying to deconstruct logical positivism which is a waste of time because metaphysical claims made my continental philosophy fall into the same category of unfalsifiable claims.
You don't have an argument because the premise is derived from inductive reasoning and you're attempting to validate through deduction itself.
Which is the complexity of science and shows that the universe is, wait for it, complex.

>>936431713
No you weren't summerfag because actual oldfags don't care about how long they've been on totse, zokley, yahoo answers, 4chan, or any of these shitholes.
>It's the answer to OP's question you insufferable faggot. It's what we're talking about.
Yeah reality is complex and people substitute a lack of understanding for mythology.

Religion is man made and so many people have died for religion. Couldn't be me.

>>936431863
You weren't even alive in 1990.
Sit down.

>>936431795
Did you and Mr Leet Feet watch the finale of the BSG reboot or something?

>>936430599 (OP)
>Why do people NEED religion?
you're a brainlet if you can't figure out why religion exists and why some people need it in their lives
it's not that hard to figure out

>>936431881
What a fucking stupid thing to say.

Almost all of the scientists in the world are atheists.

>No because that's a circular argument.
You fail to understand what a circular argument is.

>They're unfalsifiable.
Much like the claim "I can turn invisible anytime I want, I just can't do it when people are looking." Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. Like I said, this kind of thinking was posited, asked, and answered literally hundreds of years ago. You're not as smart as you think you are.


>You're trying to deconstruct logical positivism which is a waste of time because metaphysical claims made my continental philosophy fall into the same category of unfalsifiable claims.

You might be able to impress your friends who are no doubt as stupid as you are, but you're literally talking nonsense. Asinine claims rooted in magical thinking are stupid no matter how you try to deconstruct reality or appeal to epistemology. It's not a fucking Wiley Coyote cartoon -- you're not going to walk off a cliff and fail to fall until you realize it's existence. You're going to operate in relationship to natural laws in the universe.

>You don't have an argument because the premise is derived from inductive reasoning and you're attempting to validate through deduction itself.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

>Which is the complexity of science and shows that the universe is, wait for it, complex.

Wrong. It shows that the universe is knowable, because we abandoned listening to assholes like you that plunged the planet into thousands of years of dark ages with magical thinking. If you want to sacrifice virgins every morning to make sure the sun comes up that's your business, but you're not smarter than those of us who are going to join the modern world in the enlightenment paradigm shift 300 years ago.

>>936431931
Honestly I know you are from totse / zoklet because you really are this fucking stupid. $100 bucks says this is schploo.

you <-> religion <-> God
and then
you <-> God

>>936432150
I know you're a zoomer because you care about morality/religion and use indians as an insult.
100% a 2016 tourist or summerfag. You think 4chan had morality in the early 2000s?
Lol

>>936432243
Yeah, you lost this argument. Thanks for illustrating to everyone in the thread why nobody should take religious people seriously.

>>936430599 (OP)
>Why do people NEED religion?
In times of need, when you have nothing to support you, it's a good psychological aid to believe in something that will help you from heaven. A kind of divine force that will assist you.

>>936432292
>Always thought redpill culture was 4chan
No. A long time ago your culture came from a website called the manosphere.
Then before that it came from an old forum stormfront which I used to troll.
Then stormfags migrated here and even moot hated you.
You don't even know where your own memes/ideas come from.
You are absolutely a newfag and have to appeal to seniority because you care about your beliefs on the internet.
In 2006 you would be killing yourself right now while some nigger spams cp

To commit darin things in the present reality to advance Planet Heaven’s agenda is far from “fake”


Jews have time& time again defeated the paradigms Satan throwed at them thru very creative actions that proved to be very effective. These actions are recorded in the ancient Bibles.

But time keeps on movin&I wouldn’t be surprised Jews will come with another Testament in 1000 yrs to reveal everything that went through since the last Testament

Jews are aware of everything that is happening$ if they wouldn’t then YAHWEH would inspire them to connect with other Jews to describe everything happenin in the Jew’s author’s generation where he\she hasn’t LIVED.

GOD was always politically unpopular & this goes by default not by design. It’s independent of trends&whether fags want to be aware of the program&play a significant role or not.


If you believe in freedom&liberty and civilization you would surely appreciate everything the Jews of the present and past are doing against all odds to defeat Satanic vermin blood lust&human sacrifices I.e strategies along with waiting patiently until ENOUGH humans gather against GOD in order to deliver yet another FATAL blow to the enemy’s interests. And then another flush in the system.


YAHWEH doesn’t need what’s popular now to act accordingly. YAHWEH is independent of human wisdom and what seems foolish to humans&childish sometimes is the M.O to advance the agenda.

Of course “religion” in itself has handicapped the “narrow way “and loss of believers is no substitute for advancement of the higher cause .


There could be 1 single Jew against 6 billion rebel Gentiles . I would root for the 1 single Jew.


Time&time again ,Jews far outnumbered defeated the majorities. And yet Jews being half suicidal (Adam and Eve ) or full suicidal (Binding of Isaac) have seen the program being rerouted to YAHWEH before their very eyes.

Sin will always make you fall asleep before history&that’s alright with me leL

>>936432412
You just keep insisting you're superior or more knowledgeable than everybody here and hiding behind a semantic fog. It's not fooling anyone. You sound like a retard and it's not even a good troll. You fail.

>>936432527
Of course I'm a retard.
I'm on 4chan. I just admit it unlike you.
You Zoomers think it's serious and that your morals are based or whatever.
Your gay in highest order.

>>936432652
You know, I never understood the trope that "everyone on 4chan is a retard" or "we're all losers." Like there are successful people with wives, families, kids, money, careers, education, and all the other things that traditionally indicate success use these boards. I get it as like an inside joke but plenty of mysteries have been solved by 4chan that stumped "experts" before. The people on this site literally solved murders.

Like no offense but the only retard in this thread is you and the schizo guy. And, to his credit, he might just be a really smart crazy guy

>>936432779
>Like there are successful people with wives, families, kids, money, careers, education, and all the other things that traditionally indicate success use these boards.
It's funny you zoomies think those qualities somehow make you not a loser or a dumbass.
You're just so wrong lmao.
Have you seen your average human?
There's no God.

>>936432902
>There's no God.

That was the whole point

>>936432932
Who cares?
Notice how whether there is one or not you still reply to me.

>>936433005
because it's a discussion forum genius. I'm resting between sets. Meanwhile this is all you have to do on a sunday evening because you're actually a fucking a loser. That's why you talk about being on totse or zoklet like itt's a flex.

Do us all a favor and reevaluate your life.

>>936431300
>>936431354
>>out of shape neckbeards
BUT you're not wrong. I try not to overeat, but I'm DEF skinny, but I can cook. I like the concept of what religion can give, but not what it has become.

>>936431489
>appealing to normies
Yeah, I stopped doing this years ago when I realized that normies are nothing more than NPCs. I dated the most normie of girls around 3 years ago and my god she pissed me off.

>>936431663
At least you get it, but there are other things we can do, say, for instance, furries. They have a huge group of people they turn to, and I dont think I've ever actually met a Christian furry. I've heard of them but never met any. (I'm only comparing concepts, not being a furry, anons don't bite my head off)

>>936431860
Almost all atheists I know are nothing like that. Most of them can't stand those faggots who scream that shit.

>>936431892
Dude you're dead? How did you die?

>>936432116
At this point, it's starting to feel like it because people are turning to something they don't understand and aren't finding the answers they need.

>>936432390
>You have nothing to support you
What about logic?

>>936432412
not to mention that everyone who was redpilled in the past was almost always stoned to death or some kind of killing or whipping

>>936432485
Ya know the funny thing is, I dont think I've ever actually met a hateful jew or a jew that wanted to ruin anything. They just make money and good movies.

>>936432902
>>936432932
TBF, anons, we don't know if there is or is not a God. That was my point in the beginning of my thread. I'm not Anti-God, I'm anti-religion. None of us knows if god is real or not. MAYBE one day, when we die, we may find out. I hope there is so I can ask him about religion. I hope he laughs.

>>936433071
You're just upset because your morality doesn't matter and you think things like money, sex, and power are important.
You're such a product of society you can't interact with anything outside of scrolling TikTok.
You think in memes bruh.

>>936433081
I don't care Anon do what makes you happy.
I'm just ribbing faggots.

>>936433105
Yeah I'm not a normie either.
I'm based because I believe in the red pill and staple my dick to my thigh and changed pronouns to the symbol for pi.

>>936433105

>At least you get it, but there are other things we can do, say, for instance, furries. They have a huge group of people they turn to, and I dont think I've ever actually met a Christian furry. I've heard of them but never met any. (I'm only comparing concepts, not being a furry, anons don't bite my head off)

I won't bite your head off and i think it's a fair point. I just remember ahtiesm being a huge part of my life when I deconverted at like, 19. I feel like I might be a little different from most people because I was going to school to be a minister at one point, so losing my religion was losing a big part of my life. I got over my cringey atheist phase around 25 or 26 I think. There are just so many other things that comprise my personality at this point -- my education, my career, the women I bang, my relationships, fitness, money, my journey -- most people who have atheism as their whole identity are fucking losers. I'd honestly rathert hang out with Christians who lift.

>>936433245
Define God.

>>936431860
See
>>936431359

>>936433260
1. fair
2. I initally don't care what the average tranny does as long as they dont whine about not being the opposite sex. I've noticed that only transgirls do, transmen don't.

>>936433291
And ya know the funny thing is when I say "I'm anti-religion," that's not to say I don't think the bible can't teach. I think the bible is a great book if you like fairytales with morality laced in it. My issue derives from people taking it so serious they die over it, which to me is fucking retarded. A moral compass at best is subjective; in 1 country it's ok to kill women, in another they can get abortions. It's confusing.

>>936433293
Depends on what we are asking:

My personal definition - God is a being with great power that can make things happen and bring them into existence.
---
Every other definition is mostly the Christian God.

>>936430599 (OP)
They're stupid or lazy pretty much covers it.

>>936433535
>I don't care about trannies
Yes you do.

>>936433535
>God is a being with great power that can make things happen and bring them into existence.
I can't falsify that so I guess I'll just believe in it.

>>936430949
Most people who study those things are atheists

>>936430599 (OP)
>Why? Why do people NEED religion?
Romans tried to get rid of religion. They learned a lesson so cruel they had to invent the pontifex maximus to keep religion in their society. That position eventually became the Pope btw. Same seat.

To date, there is not a SINGLE society without religion. Because society cannot function without the belief of an unseen enforcement of justice

>>936433754
And?

>>936433705
I dont care what the average person does with their life as long as it doesn't involve me in it. I dont like trannies in general but as long as they dont bitch about not being the opposite sex, sure whatever. I try my hardest to stay neutral

>>936433820
They could but they fear death more than living in a world where they are in prison. So if they die they are in damnation. better to believe than to understand the current consequences. Which really speaks because we don't know IF hell and heaven are real. Who here doesn't want to go Heaven when they die? Sure! But who knows.

>>936433820
I don't think that's why.

I think it's because society is still largely religious and accepts supernatural explanations for things because our species isn't widely educated.

>>936433965
You have to try hard to stay neutral because you care.
Some fucking bitch with a dick could swing it around Costco and I wouldn't give a shit and neither does the universe.

>>936433898
You were implying a god of the gaps argument, but in reality those that study don't believe in a magic man running the universe

>>936434004
Don't try reasoning with that retard. He's been trolling the thread since it came up.

>>936433965
People really still think pascals wager is compelling? Wild

>>936434049
Ah, least he's being stupid on purpose

>>936434083
One can only hope.

>>936433965
>They could but they fear death more than living in a world where they are in prison.
the purge of religion was before the concept of 'hell' made its way into theology. It had to be brought back because the romans realized without the belief of a silent enforcer of cosmic justice, people fell into tribalism and no cohesive identity.

>our species isn't widely educated.
if that's true then the increase in education should be correlated with the decrease in dogma, yet it's 2025 and we are debating if a man can be a woman (it can't)

>>936434004
I already debated you faggot.

>>936434049
>>936434083
>>936434128
Did that samefagging help your ego?

>>936434210
Nope x2

>>936430733
Time to dilate jew

>>936434142
if that's true then the increase in education should be correlated with the decrease in dogma, yet it's 2025 and we are debating if a man can be a woman (it can't)

Correct on the latter (men aren't women). The former is questionable.

The standards fo contemporary education have been in decline since the 1950s. It's empirically verifable.

>>936434210
Thta's not me you retard. Multiple people in this thread are confirming the original anon that was running circles around you while you were acting retarded.

>>936434253
don't try reasoning with this hopeless pencildick.

>>936434253
Nice MS paint work zoomer.

>>936434210
>OH I'M SO SMART I KNOW THE SECRETS OF HTE UNIVERSE

>doesn't understand how basic 4chan works
>Claims to have been here since the 80s or whatever

Jesus Fucking Christ you actually are stupid.

>>936434052
I dont know what this is

>>936434142
>the romans[...]
What's sad about this ideology is that when you ask for proof, people get overly offended.

>using education to explain to people what religion IS vs why religion IS
Yeah, which is what never made sense.

>trannies being their "real" gender.
Maybe in another 10+ years. I think they are trying to figure out if putting a uterus in a man is possible and letting him raise a baby in himself. Which if it happens, damn medical science. I'm not completely against that because I am waiting for splicing with animals.

>>936434302
???
-----

BTW thread, this has been the most fun thread I've talked in in a long time, and somehow I've had better conversations here than I have anywhere else lately.

>>936434363
You sound mad.

>>936434317
Cope and seethe

>>936434443
Yet here you are.

>>936434363
no anon, he wasn't claiming he's been here sense the 80s, he's explaining where redpilled on the internet came from.

>>936434463

It's not the same guy autismo

>>936434535
HEY!
you leave him out of this!

>>936434535
Proof?

>>936434523
You didn't read the entire thread.

He has been saying stupid shit since like comment 4. He tried to establish credibility by saying he was here since the origins of 4chan and totse, yet doesn't even know how to use it. Then when everything he said was called out as obvious nonsense, he descended into obviously trolling to protect his pencil-dick ego since he clearly isn't nearly as smart as he makes himself out to be.

That's why he's sitting here smashing the f5 key on a beautiful sunday evening on 4chan alone in his mom's basement while the rest of us are trying to have a constructive discussion or doing so between more constructive things (like lifting weights)

>>936434609
Someone already gave you a screenshot.

>>936434635
Sorry, a lot being said.
This is why I have 2 monitors.

>>936434649
>MS paint
So no proof?

>>936434845
Well technically it's unfalsifiable so, by your original argument, you have to believe it because deconstructing logical positivism is an fool's errand.

Checkmate, retard. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

>>936434967
I hate to be THAT GUY but this is the kinda thing where trips CAN come in handy.

>>936435002
That has nothing to do with trips you buffoon.

>>936430599 (OP)
why does /b/ like to talk about religion so much? it's a recurring topic here. anyway, yeah here's some answers:
religion provides
1. community
2. purpose
3. accountability
4. hope
>but it's all bullshit and god ain't real
true, but isn't society (e.g. the government, the law, institutions, the economy, etc) bullshit? at its core, its retarded and we only uphold its tenants because they are so very much imposed upon us. however, some people really believe in society, they have devout convictions and can't be swayed about its importance and function despite evidence to the contrary. some people need the structure that society provides and legitimately couldn't exist outside of it. well, it's the same for religion.

arguably, most people who were born into a first world society like what we have in the west couldn't survive in the harsh wilderness that is reality. the disconnect lies in the fact that religion isn't necessary for survival, at last not in the immediate sense. it might be necessary for some people to cling to lofty ideas like god and heaven and the soul and what have you, if for no other reason than because it provides them the comfort to keep on living.

it's still all bullshit and god ain't real, but at least it's useful to some extent, and I suppose you might say that that matters more.

>>936434967
Man I've really gotten inside your head.
Good.
I want to go underneath your skin and hijack your nervous system.
You're obsessed and keep coming back for more. I've had an imprint on you.
>Well technically it's unfalsifiable so, by your original argument, you have to believe it because deconstructing logical positivism
Then why are you supporting your argument with pictorial evidence?
If you consider different types of evidence in a relativistic sense.

>>936435084
I tried. Nothing more I can do.

>>936435090
>God isn't real
You and I both cannot prove no disprove, at most it's Schrödinger's God; in which case the only way to know is death.

>>936435090
I think there's wisdom to this post, but the problem is society is actually real. As in, you might not believe in the morality of society internally, but if you don't vocalize agreement when pressed or act on it, there are penalties in the immediate.

Whereas if you don't eat meat on Fridays or use your phone on Shabbat literally nothing happens.

>>936435093
Dude you're talking to like 5 different people at this point. You have no idea how 4chan works.

>>936435165
It's all one guy?
Also how's summer vacation?

>>936435162
Sort of, and even then, that's assuming a lot.

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.So to say "we can't definitively know there's no god" is like saying "we can't definitively know that the people you love never actually existed."

It's true but hte people who argue that are doing so out of fear or arguing in bad faith. I know this because I've never gone to a funeral and had someone run out in front of hte casket waiving their arms saying "DON'T BE SAD, IT *COULD* BE THE CASE THAT THEY NEVER EXISTED!!!"

Nobody does that because we know our lived experience. People arguing that god lives in some plane outside of that experience do so for insincere reasons or try to hamfist that god's existence into this plane of existence.

Otherwise it's completely indistinguishable from something made up, which is almost certainly what it is (although we don't know for sure)

>>936435295
I used to be a Christian, specifically Baptist. I asked my youth minister if it's fine to question the bible and he said that every good minister does because that's what you're SUPPOSED to do. Question and understand it.

>>936435354
You should question the validity of the Bible as truth.
Not within the framework of its own merits or authority within the church.

>>936435405
Thats what I do/did. As I said earlier, I believe that the bible should be looked upon as a way of learning how to be a good person but not used as a weapon in a Flander's sense.

>>936435354
That's fine. The challenge is, like I said much earlier in the thread, every argument for the existence of god has already been asked and answered. They are at best, fallacies, but more often circular and in bad faith.

I will clarify that questioning sometimes considered bad depending on which interpretation you have in the bible.

>>936435440
What does it mean to be good?
Where does goodness come from? And are such qualities inherent to existence or being human?

>>936435493
Without the bible, I would say "Good" comes from not harming others and doing what you can to aid another in a positive way. The issue is that it's 100% subjective

>>936435162
yeah ok I agree that agnosticism is a good position to take.
>>936435165
well the thing about society is that it only exists insofar as we can enforce its rules and impose its boundaries. every zombie apocalypse movie/book/show/game under the sun explores this concept, the erosion of society despite humans enduring outside of it. I think god and religion are similar. they're only real if you accept them, especially god. that is the definition of faith, making a conscious decision to believe despite a lack of evidence.

>>936435440
>I believe that the bible should be looked upon as a way of learning how to be a good person

No offense but the people who say this haven't read the bible.

>Saint paul returns a freed slave
>If a man rapes a woman, he owes the father a day's wages because he damaged his property
>Everyone who doesn't believe what I believe goes to hell
>If god creates a vessel for destruction then who is that vessel to talk back to god
>God comes back and tortures people forever
>Even thinking about sex is evil

Like none of that is something anyone would consider good

>>936435554
No that's fair to say, I've never read it. Maybe a few lines but I do mean the stuff that says TO Be a good person, to help one another and so on. Every book is going to have something fucked up in it.

>>936435525
A much better moral framework than what's in the bible, and it doesn't include slavery or genocide either!

>>936435525
If it's subjective in quality then why would the existence of the Bible bring goodness a sense of objectivity?
Through what authority?

>>936435625
The man with the bigger stick I guess

>>936435528
That's an equivocation.

To say society is real in the same way god is real is an amphibolee of the word "real." It's like saying:

"Cream puffs taste good dipped in coffee"
"That car is a real cream puff"
"Therefore, that car would taste good dipped in coffee"

When you argue that society is "real" you're saying the consequences of not following it are enforced.

When you're saying god is real, you're discussing whether or not it exists.

We know society exists. We know consequences for not following it are "real." God's existence is up for debate, although is very likely false.

>>936435591
>but I do mean the stuff that says TO Be a good person, to help one another and so on

That isn't in there. The whole book argues that nobody can be a good person and that's why we need a savior.

>>936435659
wouldn't that also by default mean that the bible is hypocritical?

>>936435684
You weren't joking when you said you haven't read it

>>936430599 (OP)
I was raised Christian, and feel that both religion and atheism is stupid, especially when religious people don't follow the principles of their religion, and try to shame others for not converting to it. When I heard what an agnostic is, that makes a lot more sense and is what I prescribe to now. Can't tell my mother that though or she'd worry every day about my soul going to Hell and would probably get angry at me.

I think another large part of needing religion is the fear of death and the comfort of an afterlife. Whether that is Heaven, or reincarnation. Nothing, just like before birth, is terrifying and incomprehensible.

>>936435643
Exactly.
If punishment is the motivator for good behavior then that's a pretty weak system of morality.
A far better one is to think critically about goodness and intuit what you value having a positive impact on other humans.
The only authorities that exist are the ones you choose to accept. Allow yourself that freedom in an age of culture wars that seeks to replace your humanity with memetic ontology.

>>936435709
lol

>>936435684
Well I would say it just contradicts because it's not a cohesive narrative. It's 22 books that were voted in by committee and appended to 44 older books written hundreds of years prior and then later debated into a narrative that you know today.

Like we didn't even have the doctrine of hte trinity until 325 AD

>>936435760
Agnostic and atheism are 2 different things.

As in, you can be an agnostic atheist. Or a gnostic theist.

>>936435761
Have a relevant image
Note that theist are stuck in the early stages

>>936435773
>Like we didn't even have the doctrine of hte trinity until 325 AD
Such a bizzare retcon, makes the new testament make even less sense

>>936435709
Sorry anon, never read it nor want to. But if anything, I can say that those who claim to be religious and spout it as the only thing in existence to be appreciated and loved and used are the same people I can't because those people are the ones who know less about it, but the difference is that I admit to not reading it and just try to be good in the eyes of people in general. I will fail but I can attempt

>>936435760
>Nothing, just like before birth, is terrifying and incomprehensible.
but you can understand it, even tho I may contradict myself, we don't know and accepting that there isn't anything is more believable than what man has told us because he wanted to control people and writing it down was easier.

>>936435761
Yes but a visible stick vs an invisible stick that has never once done anything to you once in your life is different. It's like threatening to spank your kid when you've never raised a hand to them.

>>936435773
they want people to believe so bad.

>>936435888
I'm familiar with Kohlberg.
You should check out Spiral Dynamics/Ken Wilber's integral theory of you're into conscious development.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kse87ocS0Uo
Here you go.

>>936435975
>>936435888
Nice trips. That said, as an atheist who studied psych, I never believed in these "stages of moral development." They're all presupposed on a lot of assumptions that are pretty like, universal among college liberals but not necessarily accurate.

Personally I think Kohlberg.

>>936435927
That's because it's not real. Like it's people rationalizing a thing that's not reasonable.

>>936435928
>Yes but a visible stick vs an invisible stick that has never once done anything to you once in your life is different. It's like threatening to spank your kid when you've never raised a hand to them

Its worse than that, the child can confirm you have a hand in the first place, maybe even witness it hitting something. Can't even manage that for a god

>>936435659
it's just an analogy, I'm not trying to say that god (religion) exists in the same way that society exists. god either exists as a phenomena or it doesn't. we need to measure it in various ways to confirm its existence, like we would with any other stimuli in our universe. society is a concept whose man-made rules are implemented and imposed upon us. it is only real in concept, but it is "felt" when the consequences of breaching those tenants are enforced.
>you steal from a thrift store; you only feel "society" breathing down on you if you manage to get caught
in this way we could say that religion functions similarly to society, i.e. its doctrines and the belief system that is built around them are only effective for those who "opt in" and accept it as something to live by. you can live in society and be very much hostile to society. likewise, you can call yourself a member of any given religion, but if you don't practice its tenants and you aren't acknowledged by the institution itself as a member, then it doesn't matter what you say.

in other words, perception matters, but everyone has a perception. if you perceive yourself to be a religious individual, that isn't any more invalidated by someone else's perception than an anarchist's perception of society invalidates the societal structures that he is inevitably bound by.

>>936435999
I don't personally believe in it either but I threw it out there because I know there's some people interested in that kind of thing.

>>936436007
Lets say the parent is god:
God has never once raised a hand to the child. The child has done stupid stuff and banished them to their room for the night. God wants to SO BAD but knowing that if they do they will be seen as a piece of shit to their child.

>>936436009
>n this way we could say that religion functions similarly to society, i.e. its doctrines and the belief system that is built around them are only effective for those who "opt in" and accept it as something to live by

This is why what you're saying is not right.

The government is a monopoly on violence. If you steal something and get caught, you get punished whether you believe it or not.

If you violate or follow your religion, it's inconsequential because it's not actually real and there's no heaven or hell.

>>936435999
>They're all presupposed on a lot of assumptions that are pretty like, universal among college liberals but not necessarily accurate.
A, Elaborate
B, Well thats psych for ya, humans are generally similar but it's still a spectrum

>That's because it's not real. Like it's people rationalizing a thing that's not reasonable
Neither is dnd, but the magic rules in are still coherent(for the most part)

>>936435794
>Agnostic and atheism are 2 different things.
Yes, this is true and no part of my post implies that they are the same. But
>As in, you can be an agnostic atheist. Or a gnostic theist.
I do not understand.

I was under the impression that atheism is the believe that there is no God(s). Where agnosticism is the believe that there may or may not be God(s). "We don't know."

How does, agnostic atheist or a gnostic theist work? My understanding of that is:
>Agnostic Atheist
Does not know, but believes that there is no God.
>Gnostic Theist
"Knows" or rather, is absolutely convinced of their religion.

Which I suppose brings us
>Agnostic Theist
Does not know, if their God(s) exists, but chooses to believe anyway without proof.

Could you explain the 2nd line in your post, and correct me if I'm misinterpreting the way you're using the terms?

>>936433394
>God is a being with great power that can make things happen and bring them into existence

Do you have evidence to support such a claim? I didn’t think so.

>>936435888
doesn't theology get put in the Universal Ethical Principles level? Because it deals with "what is ethical". There is no literal hand from heaven that bitchslaps a sinner

>>936436174
>is the believe
is the belief*

Curse my keyboard muscle memory and typing too fast without proofreading before posting.

>>936436078
I'm pointing out the issues with the analogy, also seems a bit question begging.
Though you're right in that god is a shitty patent, gives me the ick when Christians make that comparison

>>936436125
yes but I am saying that reality as it exists doesn't matter to the people who are prepared to believe otherwise. to use another stupid example, let's say you have a girlfriend and every month she goes out of town on a business trip for work. she goes to some conference where she meets with a bunch of other colleagues and they do work related things. at least, this is what she tells you. furthermore, she swears up and down that you can trust her, that she's not doing anything that you'd disapprove of, and because you have not immediately caught her and thus have no evidence to the contrary, you can't object to her statements.

at this juncture, is it not a choice to believe her at her word? well, that's "faith" in some sense, but it also applies to one's morality and belief system.

>>936436174
The word gnostic refers to knowledge, theism to belief in a (personal?) God.

People misuse agnostic that way to dodge the stigma religions have attached to athiest

>>936436234
Depending on the theology in question, maybe.
I should have been more specific, abrahamic faiths are stuck in the early stages*

>>936436440
I put it in ChatGPT
Agnostic theist
You believe in some kind of god or higher power, but you don’t claim to know all the answers, and you’re not tied to any specific religion. You acknowledge the possibility of an afterlife, but admit the details are unknown or unknowable.

You could also say you’re:

Spiritual but not religious (SBNR)
This is a term for people who feel a connection to something greater, but reject organized religion, dogma, rituals, or churches. You're not alone—this is a growing category.

You might also be:

Deist (sort of)
Deists believe a god created the universe but doesn’t intervene in human affairs. They reject religion but believe in a creator. That said, deism is more about the clockmaker-style god (sets things in motion, then steps back), while you're open to the mystery of what comes after.

>>936436440
>athiest

Learn how to spell. It adds credibility.

>>936430599 (OP)
atheists have put more bodies in the ground. simple.

>>936433245
>What about logic?
hahahaha Logic won't save you from your debts, only pure, hard work. But sometimes that work is too exhausting to do, and you need a little morale boost to keep working. That's where faith comes in; it gives you enough strength to work another day.

>>936436681
Hahaha doubt it

>>936436753
Personally, not me. What gives me stregnth is going to cons and buying shit.

>>936436608
Yeah lots of options, doesn't help theists muddling the waters to avoid the burden of proof

>>936436650
Naw, the typos double as bait

>>936436196
Prove you exist, and are not a bot.

>>936436440
I don't think there is anything wrong with choosing to believe there is no God(s), but the "agnostic" stance is more of, as another anon put, "Schrodinger's God" or as I put, "we don't know". As for the stigma, I do understand a bit because an atheist who wants to convert people to atheism will go "God isn't real, here is why you are stupid for believing so.", the (gnostic atheist) where my belief system is, you can't prove or disprove that there is or is not.

I did look up the definitions of "gnostic" vs. "agnostic" and was surprised on how drastically different they were, because the leading "a" usually does imply "lack thereof" and if "gnostic" is "knowledge" than "agnostic" should be "lack of knowledge" but according to how it is different and used, it isn't.
Also,
>Gnostic Theist
"Knows" or rather, is absolutely convinced there is no God.

>>936436650
Understanding how easy a typo can happen makes you appear less ignorant.

>>936436608
I advise against relying on ChatGPT. It can make stuff up, and is wrong often enough because it pulls from multiple sources but also sometimes makes sources up. It is very much like an automated version of Wikipedia, where you can check the sources, yet few people actually do. Don't use AI to think for you, think for yourself. Much like how people blindly use religion instead of thinking for themselves, I have seen people blindly accept ChatGPT's answers and when debated they retort that "ChatGPT said so, so it must be true." much like how Christians says "It's in the Bible, so it must be true."

In this case, ChatGPT does offer a bit of extra perspective here (discussing SBNR and Deists)

>>936436944
They cannot, and neither can you. You proved their own point just now.

>>936436956
>dont use ChatGPT
But was it wrong?

>>936436507
>abrahamic faiths are stuck in the early stages
given Judaism doesn't have a 'hell', and christian sects that define hell as metaphorical 'without God'. What exactly puts them in the carrot/stick category?

>>936437060
I didn't say "don't use it." I said don't rely on it. Also use other sources. Don't have it do all your thinking for you. It was a word of caution. In this case, it wasn't wrong, but I have seen plenty of times where it has been. Whenever someone leads with "ChatGPT says" my brain automatically compares it to "the Bible says" because a lot of the people who use ChatGPT do treat is as gospel and have the same attitude that Christians take in an attempt to shut down all other argument, and no longer wish to see the other side of the discussion. (The "la la la I can't hear you", effect)

I prefer not to use AI whenever possible, but Google's Gemini has helped me locate a song before, when I was failing to find it in the list of search results. Other times, it has produced complete nonsense. Results vary.

>>936436956
Was moreso referring to Christian smear campaigns but sure.

Well those unaware of a god are also athiest and agnostic regarding it i suppose.

>>936437138
Being with God = carrot
Anything else = stick

>>936437243
if you keep using ChatGPT, over time it will know you better and know what you like, so that way you can actually get better results for yourself.

>>936437289
It knowing you better and knowing what you like is a bad thing sometimes. Especially when it comes to opinionated topics. The better it knows what you like, the more of a "yes man" it becomes, telling you only what you want to hear. This is less so when you ask it a question which only has a factual answer, but you should still check sources beyond that. Other times, it's "ethical" protocols may make it refuse to give certain answers, (sometimes this is good and other times not so)

>>936437289
I encourage you to read articles from multiple sources, regarding the potential harm of AI. It can be a productive tool, but like religion, sometimes it goes off the deep end and is misused or gives bad answers/advice. AI is very much still a work in progress.

>>936437284
but you see how "anything else" isn't exactly a stick right or how praying isn't exactly a carrot?
It's similar to saying
magic man's word is ethically good
what goes against magic man is bad.

They are basis for moral alignment and not a subjugating force. Otherwise everyone will have different versions of good and bad

>>936437605
I normally do; I'm not saying to use it all the time, I like to use it for subjective things.

>>936437627
>Otherwise everyone will have different versions of good and bad
but that's already happening

>>936437664
For something to be subjective, it needs to be your own point of view. ChatGPT is great for things which have a clear answer such as math problems, historical fact, or language translation. Not so good on things which require forming an opinion, as is the nature of subjective topics.

>>936437673
yes, hence the world has multiple religions.
I don't see how theology means lower level.
At best theology is a way to communicate the abstract unobservable philosophies in a way we can comprehend them - religion is just a nonsensical answer to a nonsensical question of "what is good"

>>936437799
well it also goes based on what is knows about you too. Give it all your games and ask, "based on what you know about me recommend me [blank]" Also, you have to remember it has about 16tbs of books they used on it to understand some logic.

>>936437627
>It's similar to saying
>magic man's word is ethically good
>what goes against magic man is bad.

>They are basis for moral alignment and not a subjugating force. Otherwise everyone will have different versions of good and bad

Two of many problems with religious 'morality'

>>936437966
>I don't see how theology means lower level.
Because you're biased
>At best theology is a way to communicate the abstract unobservable philosophies in a way we can comprehend them
Let's say that's true, its a very bad way

>>936438432
as oppose too....? How do you rank what's morally better or worse?

>>936438463
>Because you're biased
on what grounds? I'm not the one making generalizations here
>Let's say that's true, its a very bad way
as oppose too.....?

>>936438634
Sucular humanism, utilitarianism, game theory, Buddhism (before he got deified), etc.

Christianity/yaweh isn't the only game in town

>>936438704
yes, all possible moral alignments. Now, notice
1. Outside of personal opinions, you can't rank them as better or worse

2. They are all systems to orient your morality, hence exist as the top level.

>>936438787
All ranking are opinions, what a bizzare cope. You can develop an objective rubric and grade them that way

Thats not how that chart works

>>936438884
correct! And I'm not asking how the chart works, I'm asking how theism means lower in the chart while other moral alignment systems are higher.
Given:
>All ranking are opinions,You can develop an objective rubric and grade them that way

>>936439047
>I'm not asking about the chart
>asks about the chart

Strange,
Maybe this will help

my parents deserve to burn in hell, so whatever religion would do that to them, is the one i'm going to follow

>>936439624
Most Christians are in the Purple.

>>936439851
not even close

>>936439851
What I've been trying to tell him lol. Guess he's too busy being butthurt

>>936439875
I'll let you have blue. Green if you have a good argument

>>936439624
>Ask how theism means bottom
>So.... you're asking about the chart?
>No, I'm asking why theism means bottom when religion is a field under personal ethics
>That's not how the chart works!!
Kek

>>936430599 (OP)
I am pantheistic, but not religious. I believe in all the gods, but I have no reason to believe any of the dumb shit humans think or believe about them; especially the dogma, rituals, culturalisms, and antiquated traditions.

>>936439897
I have not thrown a single insult though....from where did you get 'butthurt', or are you projecting? If so I'm sorry, I'm just asking questions

>>936430599 (OP)
because its fun to larp being a part of a racist patriarchy of scammers

>>936440021
Let it go, there's no reasoning with the fedora tippers. They are really proud and at the tippy top because they can disobey mommy

>>936430599 (OP)
Exactly OP they need a “savior” to self regulate. Looking outside of yourself for comfort,basically religion is like medication for your fears/questions. I think as science understands more about the universe the more religion and even spirituality will fade away. Deities and metaphysical pseudo science have been used as explanations for things happening in the world/universe. The father you go back in history the more absurd beliefs you will find to explain things in nature/science. Roman Gods,pagan gods, etc gods controlling weather etc.

>>936439954
We're taking about abrahamic religions, as I already specified. It falls into the bottom due to being based on fear of punishment.

>>936440089
The Catholics?

>>936440021
>I have not thrown a single insult though....
So?
>from where did you get 'butthurt',
Your propensity to dodge the point/question and behavior likes this,
> or are you projecting? If so I'm sorry, I'm just asking questions

>>936440087
Sad but true

>>936440101
That's presuming science (a religion itself) doesn't end up proving the existence of higher life forms capable of influencing the material universe.

[Vnr.]

>>936440089
>still in the 3-7 stage

>>936440234
Woop there it is

>>936440116
>based on fear of punishment
Go back to my comment about how hell doesn't exist in Judaism and is metaphorical in certain Christian sects

>>936440179
What point have I dodged?

>>936440318
See
>>936437284

>>936440347
See >>936437627

>>936440234
Science is a process, not a religion.
And if it does eventually provide evidence of extra-dimensional critters that can make (or at least modify) universes, then fine.
But that's not what the evidence points to at the moment. So what's the point of believing in these hypothetical critters without any evidence?

>>936440414
I'm not sure how to dumb this down more for you.
You also the chatgpt guy?

>>936440277
TOP KEK... THERE it is. Instead of posting anything intelleigent or even remotely open-minded, you only had a brailet's nay-say. So come on pretty boi. Let's do this. I'm about to teach you that you don't know shit about Science.

Don't bother with a rapier wit, just choose your metaphorical "weapon." Go ahead... Take a "science-minded" position.

>>936440460
Salvation is a process, not a religion, but the religion is obviously there. The process is legit, but the stigma, the mindset of people like (You), and the prevalent ignorance surroudning it, aka the scientific community at large... is the religion and its religious nuts/fanatics.

>>936440521
You false equivalenced science and religion.
You lose

>>936440483
I am also not sure how to dumb this down. let me try....
If I say "Eating Vegetables are good" and "Killing people is bad", I have not set up any carrots or sticks. I have set up something called "morality".

Morality is a system of principals to define and differentiate 'good' and 'bad.

Saying 'magic sky man is good' is not a carrot, it's a moral principal.

>>936440589
Salvation from what?
How is it legit?

>>936440609
Okay, you've taken a stance, now provide some rhetoric or supporting citations to back up that stance. You're not automatically based by default and you don't "durrhurr get the point" just because you took a stance. That's very unscientific of a debate tactic for you to employ off the cuff.

>>936440626
Yes yes, more intentional obtuseness.
Now answer the other question

>>936440649
No, don't try to immediately convolute the conversation or position of the goalpost. "Salvation" in terms of Abramic religions is well established and what from. The part about "legit" was refering to the Scientific Process.

>>936440667
I mean we can start counting if you'd like.
So far its 1-0 in my favor.

>>936440589
I just want evidence that can be observed and tested.
Is that too much to ask for?

>>936439928
most christians are either social contract or principle, but i'm not saying that's a good thing

>>936440718
Ah nvm, thought you were still referring to salvation there.

>>936440740
I just entered this thread. We just started. Nobody has made any points yet. We've barely taken stances kid.

>>936440649
Salvation from Yahweh's wrath.

>>936440692
How is it intentionally obtuse? I'm explaining it to you as is what morality means and how defining good and bad is different from rewards and punishment

For your unrelated question: I don't use ChatGPT, my company gives us a Claude subscription for free.

>>936430599 (OP)
It makes them feel special and superior. That and inability to cope with the fact life doesn't continue after death. The religious are children as far as their IQ is concerned and should be disregarded

>>936440746
You'd be unpleasantly surprised, when push comes to shove they slip down some stages

>>936440741
Yet you're unwilling to keep an open mind to the most simplistic fact that the scientific community, MANY of its findings, are flawed and that sufficient technologies needed to conduct further study just haven't been made available to the public yet.

>>936440817
could you explain that further?

>>936440780
Are you not >>936440234?
Cuz he lost a point already lol

>>936440741
man, when you get to college and learn about the Replication Crisis, you will shit bricks.

>>936440786
Go to the purple corner!

>>936440851
Those are both mine. No point was made yet though.
>name fagging beyond this point
I suggest for the sake of continuity and prohibition of common underhanded tactics anyone trying to debate like intelligent beings do the same; at least for the duration of this thread.

>>936440836
When asked why they eventually they wind up at 'because God will send me/you to hell' or 'I wanna go to heaven'

>>936440823
>imperfect findings
still better than religion

>EVIDENCE IS OVERRATED
>JUST TRUST ME BRO
>AND PUT YOUR MONEY IN THE PLATE

>>936440793
See
>>936440817

>>936440948
>still better than religion
Your point fails, because imperfect findings are a symptom of science being a religion in its current state.

>>EVIDENCE IS OVERRATED
>JUST TRUST ME BRO
>AND PUT YOUR MONEY IN THE PLATE
Stop right there hoss. You're putting words that weren't there. I'm not some fanatical brainlet or the typical redneck you're probably used to arguing with. If you want the chance to grow and evolve that I offer, you're going to have to debate and you're going to have to keep your shit on the straight and narrow path.

>>936440919
you have a point

>>936441048
Imperfect findings are superior to 0 findings.
Thats 2 to nothing, you're lucky I'm not counting your false equivalency for another point

>>936441040
sounds like anecdotal evidence? Most humanitarians also slip down under stress.

So how was I being intentionally obtuse, you're avoiding and not answering the question

>>936441135
It's not anecdotal, its a function of their moral framework

>>936441107
>premature superiority stance
Well, I'm finding you to be a low-grade psuedointellectual so far. You're about to realise how stupid you're building yourself in the eyes of your peers. You haven't made any points yet.

Furthermore, religions of old claim many findings. That doesn't make them correct. ...science...

>>936441069
>you have a point

>>936430599 (OP)
Not religious but its mostly about community more than anything.
Its not so much the god part as much as its the collective and the support network and the familiarity and comradery.
I in my middle aged life have at times considered going back to church with my kids if for nothing else, for that. Just to be in the community, participate in their better more charitable programs, have that family place.

>>936441183
Yellow flag on the play, ad hominem.

See image, when you fail to answer it'll be 3 to 0

>>936441183
any science not backed with evidence is tossed out. so attempting to equate religion to science isn't even a mediocre troll.
religion is what ends up in the garbage pail during the pursuit of science. assertions without evidence.

>>936441169
how so? for certain sects sure; (ie: jihadists). But that's not related to the theistic moral framework, merely an application of it which ranks it lower.

You can do the same with many utilitarian principals making it a tyranny of the majority.

>>936441272
The ad hominem comes to reflect the level of conversation you're providing. Continuing to pop off with dumbass shit and supporting it with memes only reveals how based that is. Either get serious stfu and quit wasting my time pseud. I came for a good debate.

>>936441272
Where was the ad hominem attack? I dont see anyone attacking anyone over their person

>>936441318
Well sure if you make up your own you can wiggle it around

>>936441369
>no answer, only whining
I'll take the point, ty

>>936430599 (OP)
religion is literally a crutch to compensate for the failure of the brain, it's a tool and a coping mechanism designed to help people overcome the challenges of life.

>>936441315
Any beliefs not backed by doctrine is tossed out of religion too. Your point fails again.

I just want to make my stance a little more clear. I'm pantheistic, but not religious. I love and adore science, the scientific method, the legitimacy of reproducible processes, what I'm illustrating is the fallacy of those who consider themselves "science-minded" while wearing a fedora and putting it on a pedestal. YOU'RE the religious nut that's corrupting science.

>>936441493
I'd call it quirks not failures, can be compensated for easily enough

>>936441493
>mine

Sorry I had to take the tag off for another thread, but you have my attention now.

Religion is important because it's been humanity's primary way of discovering universal truths about how people should live together. Throughout history, different religious traditions have consistently pointed toward the same fundamental insights: human dignity, moral responsibility, and the need to limit political power through moral principles.

Religious institutions have passed down crucial knowledge about human nature and social cooperation across generations. Many political principles we take for granted—like accountable government and individual rights—were first developed by religious communities and provided the foundation for democratic development.

Properly understood religion actually helps democratic development by emphasizing individual moral responsibility, universal human worth, and accountable leadership. The supposed conflict between faith and democracy is largely artificial—both serve the goal of creating conditions where humans can flourish.

Even today, religion provides essential moral resources that purely secular approaches struggle to supply. While democratic institutions represent our best understanding of political organization, they need the moral and spiritual foundations that religious traditions uniquely provide.

Religious insight offers the moral vision necessary for human flourishing, while democratic institutions protect the conditions where this flourishing can occur. When properly understood, they support rather than threaten each other.

>>936441470
That's because you're a quitter, whiner

>>936441535
Wait... no.

This one was mine sorry, misclicked.
>>936441369

Please pardon the mixup. I'm focused and resorted now.

>>936441579
>he says after quitting and whining about it
How bizzare

>>936441892
For clarification, and to counter your delusion, you still haven't made any unanswered "points" yet.

Actually, beyond a couple of mediocre statements and amidst the nay-saying, you've barely taken a solid stance, let alone made any swings.

>>936441929
See
>>936441272

>>936441509
not him, but I probably had more STEM classes than anyone else in this thread and have fundie young earth unshakable faith in Christ Jesus and you should too. Just be honest and tell everyone you're a greasy jew.

Don't worry though, you can check with your peers anytime to confirm that.

>>936441975
>doesn't know what an ad hominem is

>>936441437
Correct! that's literally the point of ethics and how everyone gets to choose what's right or wrong using some moral alignment principal.

If you're doing that, you're at the top of Kohlberg's chart. If you are simply acting because you don't want to be punished. Then you're at the bottom. It's honestly that simple. Theism/Relativism has nothing to do with it.

But your claim is that abrahamic religions is a carrot/stick system, and you've still failed to explain how. Given the context that 'hell' is nonexistent in Judaism and isn't seen as some lake of fire by most sects of Christianity

>>936441983
>STEM
Jesus was a lie conconted by Jews. I would just as soon debate you as I would the other guy, but that's not even worth my time.

>>936441992
So the score is correct! I had assumed an earlier response was yours, ty for clearing that up

>>936442021
I've explained it twice, you just don't like the answer

>>936441369
>>936440823
>>936440780
>>936440234
These are my comments before I started using a proper tag.

>>936441272
>pic
NTA, but I just have to post this response given the ramifications of wave particle duality

>>936442103
>picrel

>>936442050
explained where? >>936437284 is not an explanation btw

>>936442107
And those would be? Is this a 'scientists don't know something' gotcha?

>>936442142
Well, I guess either I'm too high or you're too stupid for this conversation.
Have you ever voted for trump?

>>936442162
That's the fun part! Researchers are torn.
It was evidence of time as we understand doesn't work as we defined it. Since in 'particle' states doesn't make sense given the existence of the duality.
Other camp say the measurement systems and test are flawed.

So either 'what' we understand about particles over time are wrong, or 'how' we study particles over time are wrong

>>936442206
Don't worry anon, I can use AI!

>>936442206
>>936442435 (me)
part 2.
Enjoy your trip. I'm about to partake myself

>>936442435
>>936442475
>Misrepresentating your opponent to an ai to elicit backup

Thats some next level self delusional behavior, how very theistic of you.
So have you ever voted for trump?

>>936430599 (OP)
Fear of death OP.
It's ingrained in us as much as the hope of an extension is possible. Science says bodies die and decay, but science also demonstrates a circular pattern of existence. In this massive infinite universe.
I'm betting this isn't all there is. But I don't need a Stone Age belief system to guide me, it's my journey.

>>936442540
I accept your concession, thanks for playing.

>>936442577
So you are too stupid for this conversation. Thats a shame

>>936442540
>Misrepresentating your opponent
It's literally word for word bro, just removed your ad hominems
>>936440347
>>936440414
>>936440483
>>936440626

>>936442639
He(you?) Held back two clarifying statements from the ai.

>>936442625
You think there's demons in your computer?
Someone's been watching too much Digimon.

>>936442694
nah, I just followed the thread and enjoy a good BTFO'ing
What were the missing statements?

>>936442758
Scroll up a ways

>>936442751
I see you now. You're not debating anything or even trying to refute anything with citations and evidence. You're baiting. That's dissappointing.

>>936442751
https://thefpl.us/episode/380

There are dozens of us!

>>936442818
link please, I don't know who's you and who's him
I got
>>936442639
and
>>936441169
>>936441318
>>936441437
>>936442021
>>936442050
>>936442142
What was the clarifying point? This one >>936440817

>>936430599 (OP)
>I noticed that the less intelligent a person is, the likelier a person will jump to religion for solace.

And how did you come to "notice" that? How many churches have you visited, and how many of the members did you survey to "notice" that they are all of low intelligence?

I've been to many churches of various denominations, and I went to a "church" school and academy. I have found, from interacting with many church-goers, or "people of faith" in many different circumstances. I know for a fact--from personal experience with people who believe in and worship God--that MOST people of faith are very intelligent. Many of them have genius IQ's, many have their own successful businesses; are teachers, professors, businessmen, and every other profession that requires a high degree of intelligence. In fact, people of faith span the entire spectrum of humanity; from average intelligence to genius. Even those who are no-nonsense, practical people who scrutinize everything.

Your observation is wrong.

>I'm not Anti-God, I'm anti-religion because everything about religion is so culty and then shuns you if you do something they don't like.

I don't know which churches you've visited, but it sounds like the main fault in the churches that you did visit is your attitude. Going into a church or any situation, religious or secular, with your attitude is going to find what he or she expects nine times out of ten. If you go into a church with a cheerful and/or friendly attitude, you will be met with a cheerful and/or friendly response. If you are "stand-offish", sulky, or otherwise convey an unfriendly attitude and reluctance to speak to anyone, then you will find that, more times than not, you will be treated in kind. In many churches, though, there will be someone in the lobby, as you go in the door, who will greet you with a smile and welcoming greeting. You reap what you sow. Once again, your assessment is wrong.

>>936442970
I think you got em all, unlike him when hiding behind chatgpt's skirts

>>936443201
but there wasn't a clarifying point

>>936443080
this reads like the gorilla warfare copy pasta

all I learned in this thread is AI will be the death of online discourse

>>936443299
Have you ever voted for trump?

>>936443384
yes?

>>936430599 (OP)
just pretend to believe it and you get unlimited gamepass for ever after you are dead

>>936443417
How unfortunate

>>936443453
The check is in the mail!

>>936443487
tell me about it

>>936443080
>I believe in a fairy tale because some guy in a tux with a book at a building told me to believe in it with 0 proof.
The fact that the average person in the world believes blindly is what's honestly pathetic. You have 0 proof of God, religion, or any deity, and yet for some reason, you follow the concept like fish in a stream. You have a brain, you know that 2+2=4 or that electricity is the reason you're on a computer right now. Yet, there is nothing that has ever once proven the existence of God.

My argument isn't to make you not believe in God, it's to make you think about the existence of god. I, as the OP of this thread, have said several times over, it's not that I don't believe in God; I don't like religion because of what it has done to the world. Take for instance the wars going on right now because some street shitter left hand wiper curry eating wife beater doesn't like the Jews and thinks it's ok to bully them. The only religions I've NEVER heard major issues from are... the Jews. I'm not siding with them, I'm saying that you only hear people against the poor bastards.

Now look at the Mudslimes, the Christfags, the boy touchers, and any other faction like it, they've all had MAJOR issues but someone like myself or anyone here who wants nothing to do with religion is the issue? Why? Why do I HAVE TO FOLLOW what YOU say is right? Why do I HAVE TO FOLLOW what people want? Why can't I think for myself? Why does someone else have to think for me? I'm 33 years old, and I think I can think for myself for the most part. I'm not a smart man, but I know not to put a toaster in a dishwasher or shave next to an open campfire.

If all these religions respected one another and did as they said, they wouldn't be fighting, we wouldn't be talking about it. All religions have done as a whole have caused more issues than any atheist out there.

>>936443487
Do you want the liberals to take over? The lesser of 2 evils. Tho I don't want either. As long as you're born and raised here, Trump won't come after you.

>>936444121
grampa trump still might though

>>936445072
I honestly dont get why we elect such old fucks for our country when when to be the pres you only need to be 35

>>936430599 (OP)