Thread 936607297

Which came first?

>>936607297 (OP)
THE EGG

>>936607297 (OP)
Egg

circumcision

>>936607297 (OP)
These niggas, then the egg

>>936607297 (OP)
Your mother.

>>936607297 (OP)
jews

>>936607297 (OP)
In my experience, usually me.

>>936607297 (OP)
my balls

>>936607297 (OP)
Me
wait...

>>936607297 (OP)
eggs from reptiles. So then which came first the eggs or the lizards?

In evolutionary biology terms, neither really. Speciation is a gradual process usually taking millions of years (the shortest ever discovered are African lake cichlids- which developed into a bunch of different species in only about 15,000 years, and are studied as models of speciation, like Darwin’s finches).
Basically it was a long process of something that wasn’t a chicken laying an egg that was a fraction closer to a chicken, and so forth for millions of years until eventually they were what we call a chicken. The general definition of species is a group of animals able to have fertile offspring. There was no single generation within that chain of millions of years that couldn’t reproduce with the one before or after it. You could set an arbitrary cutoff point where you decide the egg laid was close enough to called a chicken, but it would still be able to reproduce with the generation before, so a biologist would call them the same species.

>>936607297 (OP)
Things were laying eggs long before chickens showed up in the fossil record.

>>936607297 (OP)

PREHISTORIC CHICKEN BEAST

>>936607297 (OP)
egg, the new species is defined by it's progeny
consider that the chicken cannot become a new species on it's own, it must lay an egg with sufficient differentiation that it is a new species. ergo the egg.

when you think about it laying eggs makes a lot of sense. you still have to roost of course, but you can share duties with another member of the group. and you can lay multiple eggs while waiting for them to hatch.
the question then is, since placental birth is primarily a mammalian phenomenon, why did mammals evolve to have placental births? why not old fashioned eggs?

>>936608791
Laying eggs means you’re sort of locked in the same area until they hatch, and need to guard them. If a weather event that makes it hard to find food, or a pack of predators roll in, you either have to abandon your clutch, and get out, losing a breeding season and all the resources you put into the eggs, or face the risk of starvation / predation.
A mammal on the other hand can move on with no risk.
A lot of animals also evolved to eat eggs, so there’s a lot of risk compared to carrying young internally. It’s very rare for a species to be able to watch their eggs at all times.

>>936607297 (OP)
I'm cumming, right now
OH MY GOD-

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>936609264
humans would have the intelligence to move eggs. indeed, of all the creature, humans are the most suited to intelligently moving a clutch without losing any viable eggs.
of course, it evolved before humans had such intelligence, so it was selected agian. i'm still curious how it happened though. putting all your reproductive energies into an egg is highly beneficial to the egg-laying animal.
it may be though that a highly intelligent and specialized species like a mammal would simply exhaust an egg's nutrient supply before it's lengthy gestation cycle was complete. that is probably the reason mammals have life birth: extra energy invested in cognitive fitness requires the young be carried live and fed constantly.

>>936609399
which leads to my second question: WHY was cognition selected for? what exactly is the benefit of cognition in a low-tech enviroment? humans have been sapient for roughly 200k years and for the first 150k years we used the same primitive stone tools.
it seems like in that 150k year gap between speciation and recursive thought (conciousness) we were at a disadvantage in terms of fitness. a bunch of furless bipeds that had to carry their young for almost a year and raise them for several years before they become useful... extremely unusual to this layman.

>>936609399
The wiki article on it claims internal gestation has evolved over 150 separate times in vertebrates that we know of, so there must be some evolutionary advantage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viviparity#:~:text=(Eulamprus%20tympanum).-,Evolution,viviparity%20is%20a%20linear%20model.

It also mentions the “cold climate hypothesis”, where it was more likely to evolve in higher altitudes or latitudes because it helps keep the developing embryos warm.

Whatever the reason, the only rule in evolution is “whatever works”. That’s how we end up with weird shit like marsupials which are kind of half way between.

>>936609775
fascinating, but you would think another offshoot of that would be faster gestation cycles.
human intelligence was selected... we have one of the longest gestation cycles of all the animals, relative to our body size. also the largest genitals relative to our body size.

>>936609646
Tool use and complex social cooperation are considered the main drivers traditionally.
We actually see this certain birds, like parrots and Corvids.
But being able to problem solve to get to a food source or avoid a danger that a less intelligent species couldn’t, is a clear advantage, even though big brains are metabolically expensive.

>>936609863
even with the longest gestation cycle we still are the some of the only mammals born useless and retarded.

plus humans are the ONLY animal on the entire planet that gets sunburnt. makes ya wonder. almost like we dont belong here with our hairless ape bodies.

>>936607297 (OP)
Mutations only occur in the egg, not the developed animal.

>>936609863
Even within love birthing animals, there’s a divide between what we call Altricial (helpless little potato babies, like humans), and Precocial (babies that can walk and do stuff from the word go, like giraffes). They both have advantages, but humans would in theory gestate longer if our babies heads wouldn’t get too big to fit through the birthing canal. This our babies are born super altricial, and take ages to develop. But it means we can develop into the smartest known species, and may be linked to our ability to walk upright.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precociality_and_altriciality

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetrical_dilemma

>>936609921
well almost all the animals are furred, burrowing, underwater or otherwise protected. we are the only mostly furless ones still in the sun.
probably the reason we still grow significant hair on our heads is that the scalp is more exposed to the sun than anywhere else. it may also be the brain, with its significant energy usage, is already hotter than most of the body, therefore it must do what it can to shield the head from excessive solar radiation.

>>936609873
when you consider the socialization aspects it makes sense. humans are extremely social and our cooperativeness has always been an advantage.

>>936607297 (OP)
GOD

>>936607297 (OP)
Shrodingers Cat.

>>936609945
Mutation is only part of evolution. There are also genetic drift, gene flow, and I think other mechanisms linked to selective pressure.
Also mutations can occur outside the egg / womb. For instance through radiation (including solar), or transcription errors. It’s currently believed mutations acquired after birth aren’t heritable though. They sequenced the genomes of the Chernobyl liquidators children, and they were normal.
The agent orange deformities were due to in-uterine exposure through the mother.

>>936610175
Don’t underestimate tool use. It was a major evolutionary accelerator. Meant we could hunt nearly anything, build shelters / clothes to survive in any location, cook food so we could digest more efficiently, and evolve shorter digestive tracts, and eat a wider variety of foods without risking illness.

Also walking bipedally is part of what made humans the greatest endurance hunter on the planet. An antelope can run faster, but it gets tired sooner than a human. Eventually the human catches up and spears it.

Egg if you believe in evolution.
Bird or egg if you are religious.

>>936610378
Yeah, like I said.

>>936608483
stfu

>>936611292
That's a good question

>>936607297 (OP)
eggs cant come, so it was the chicken

>>936607297 (OP)
Who cares nobody.


His warms?