Thread 937271383

If the best capitalism can offer is a bunch of pedophiles running society, maybe it's time to consider alternatives.

>>937271383 (OP)
I agree. Unfortunately by your bait post you're obviously someone who thinks socialism is about giving people free shit rather than being about work so there's only going to be bots and shills shitposting in this thread

>>937271576
>let me make this retarded strawman and burn it before you have a chance to humiliate my meagre intellect

>>937271383 (OP)
Its fractional reserve banking and fiat money. Not „capitalism“ (i guess the people that made this mean free market economy when talking about capitalism)

>>937271734
Nope, it's ownership of capital

>>937271383 (OP)
Capitalism is shit, but the alternatives don't look any better to me.

>>937271383 (OP)
yah.. like socialism is better..

>>937272039
Then you should learn more about communism, you probably have the wrong ideas about it

>>937272061
It would be

It's just inefficient and wasteful

>>937272065
I know the ideal, but I'll believe it when I see it.

>>937272171
It's not an ideal or even an ideology

>>937272127
Too many people on this world anyways. I hope capitalism, communism, whatever just kills and kills and kills. People saying this shit like it's a bad simply reveals they're more animal than human.

>>937271383 (OP)
>thinks the problem is in the economic model, and not the corruption of having a world-wide fake currency.
kekw

>>937272398
It's also a social model, anon. Class society. Also you're samefagging

>>937272423
>samefagging
I just entered this fucking thread, anon.

>>937272398
Also fiat currency is an obvious consequence of the commodity-form. You need to think more carefully about your position

>>937272470
Don't care/don't believe you

>>937272501
I don't have a position, I just know how the world was before 1913.
Any problem that arose with any of the economic models came up from a corrupt state of the model in question.
Ancient models were much more resistant to inflation than whatever piece of shit we have.
>>937272524
Yet you cared enough to reply.

>>937272775
In short if I wasn't clear, it all bottles down to being under man-in-the-middle attack, but in economics rather than cybersecurity.

>>937272775
Nah, corruption happened because of ownership of capital

>>937271383 (OP)
There are literally no alternatives.
And your infographic is retarded.

>>937272081
Name a socialist country that didn't go bankrupt. I'll wait.

>>937271805
Capital is supposed to have ownership. Who is taking the risk and responsibility for said capital?

>>937271383 (OP)
There is no viable alternative. Retarded Jews tried communism and starved millions for fun

>>937271609
>said the king of strawman arguments

>>937272065
no thanks I'm not gay and I don't want to starve to death or live in a concrete tenement

>>937272127
None of those things happen "in the capitalist world." They happen in the Third World, due to the absence of a functioning free market.

>>937272363
>when Mao hit China with a famine
ftfy

>>937273337
So who should own the capital? The state?
Because that's sure to abolish corruption ...

LOL
LMAO
LMFAO
the problem is not capitalism you low iq drooling retard
is government interference that allows only a certain group of companies to prosper

>all companies must shut down during covid, except those i want for the arbitrary reasons i give
>visa and mastercar is blocking coomer games on steam while allowing onlyfans payments

you know nothing of capitalism nor should ever have kids with similar low tier of intelligence
to the other ones, never forget that every creature criticizing capitalism knows nothing of it and without a doubt come from a high class capitalistic society
non whites are not people, non whites do not have souls, they are not humans nor have human rights
no act against evil is immoral

>>937271609
Really? Read down this thread and point out a non-meme argument.

>>937271576
Proven correct

>>937271383 (OP)
hey zimbabwe nigger. if communism is so good then why don't i want it?

>>937273918
Communists want to abolish the state btw

>>937273628
Name a country that achieved socialism. I'll wait

>>937273591
>There are no alternatives to feudalism

>>937274456
probably the only based thing commies want.

>>937274516
You can't abolish the state while maintaining capitalism btw

>>937273736
This guy is retarded

>>937271383 (OP)
There is no alternative, it's just various degrees of government control of the market. Free market economies are literally just human nature, you can't change it or get rid of it.

>>937274488
Capitalism literally ended feudalism by allowing commoners to generate wealth and power. Fucking retard.

>>937274537
yes you can. just make an s&p 500 state lmao.

>>937274735
Wrong, it was the merchant class that was empowered. Retard

>>937274755
>You can abolish the state by making a state

Ok

>>937274475
>real socialism has never been tried
Don't worry, we're sure to get it right next time ...

>>937274792
i want to abolish the current state. way easier than gradually replacing it with a capitalism dictatorship

>>937274799
Didn't think you could do it, looks like o was right

>>937274779
The merchant class were literally commoners, you absolute fucking mouth-breather.

>>937274816
When we say "abolish the state," we don't mean replace it with another btw

>>937274823
Nah a commoners were serfs and you're retarded

>>937274822
The USSR, Cuba, Vietnam, China, North Korea, etc etc.
Do you even history?

>>937274865
Those were communists in charge of state capitalist societies. Sorry to burst your propaganda bubble

>>937274862
Commoners are people who aren't aristocrats, dumbfuck.
The UK has a House of Lords and a House of Commons. If you're not a lord, you're by definition a commoner.

>>937274908
Ok retard. You lost pretty handily

>>937274897
Communism is impossible, any attempt to do so just ends up with 'state capitalism' aka socialism

>>937274897
The capital was owned by the state. Their economies were centrally planned. They were socialist countries.
Do don't even know what "capitalist" means, which explains your general confusion on the topic.

>>937274931
It's not impossible to have a decommidified economy if the world premier superpower can't destroy it with violence

>>937274844
still doesn't mean i can't use you animals for my needs

>>937274962
Nope, commodity production and capital ownership are capitalism. Plain and simple

>>937274930
>sticks fingers in ears and claims victory
I haven't seen that tactic since the age of six. The absolute state of Marxism ...

>>937274997
You can't even define class, you're playing checkers with a grandmaster of chess

>>937274983
Because you say so?
What other common words do we need to redefine to suit you?

>>937275044
No that's the literal definition of capitalism

>>937274963
Commodities are the basic foundations of an economy, you cannot have a human society without things which are bought and sold

>>937274983
How is a communist society supposed to exist without commodities? How will anything be built or produced? Magic??

oh, I get it. you can't criticize capitalism here without also criticizing jewish wealth. that's fucking stupid though, who cares about that shit. the rich are the rich, doesn't matter who they are. if they're part of the millionaire and billionaire class then yes you should criticize them no matter what. why focus on jews?

>>937275035
>You can't even define class
Well, I know you haven't got any ...

>>937275054
Commodities are the basic foundation of a capitalist economy

>>937275053
Capitalism is when commodities and property are privately owned and traded in a free market, not just that they exist

>>937275054
Commodities will be replaced with production-for-use goods

>>937273939
>is government interference that allows only a certain group of companies to prosper
Where's the interference? It's not just governments picking winners, corporations compete, undercut, and corrupt naturally. It's a corrupt state, a natural evolution to any economic model.
Downgrade to business as a topic for example, look at the interplay between AMD and Nvidia as one sector.Who made AMD be the underdog of Nvidia? The government?
Who made Soviet russia suffer from oligarchism? The governance or its corruption? No, it's the man-in-the-fucking-middle that equally lends governments and corporates money, and
in the process replaces your own currencies with fake crap that can't keep value because it, itself, is devoid of value, losing value with every single economic cycle.

>>937275087
How would a society exist without commodities?

>>937275099
Free market isn't necessary, you're wrong,

>>937275053
lmgtfy

>>937275112
Oh you mean a commodity? Because that is just what a commodity is

>>937275129
>>937275112
Why do you need to make a profit off of goods?

>>937275054
>you cannot have a human society without things which are bought and sold
pre 2005 somalia would disagree

>>937275149
Too bad it's wrong

>>937275152
Wrong. Commodities are produced to be sold at exchange value to generate profit

>>937275136
fucking dumbass

>>937275205
I accept your concession

>>937275158
Because without profit there is no reason to put in the effort to produce enough for anybody but oneself

>>937275180
>>937275044

>>937275226
Wrong. People have basic needs and will produce them without a profit incentive

>>937275246
You could always read Marx instead of being mad at me for correcting you

>>937275222
my concession that you're a fucking dumbass? ok

>>937275270
If that's where your retardation came from, I'll pass.

>>937275250
And so what? Only basic needs are going to be fulfilled? How will complex things like machines or industrial products be made? Most people will not produce goods for other people out of good will, that is just a retarded concept

>>937275352
Humans need other humans to produce those goods and services, there is plenty of incentive to utilize human labor for the good of all

>>937271383 (OP)
What, you think Kim Jong Il wasn't fucking teenagers as well?

>>937275392
What incentive? Humans are instinctually self-centred and will only focus on their immediate community. You have no answer for the problem of incentive. What if people don't want to work for others? What if people decide they don't care about the 'collective wellbeing'? What then?

>>937275482
They will receive the bare minimum and have less than those who labor. Did you think communism was just about some abstract moral point about "equality?"

No, people will still be compensated for labor, which they can use to acquire luxury goods if they have the means

>>937275558
Compensated with what? Currency? Without profit where will this currency come from?

>>937271576
There is a middle way.

A very simple one, even.The sooner you smart kids with your hearts in the right place realize this, the better. Work creates work. The more people work, the more work is created. The more work is created, the richer a society becomes. All of society.

Not only that. When the economy improves, crime is reduced.A thriving economy needs better infrastructure. Safer roads, more control, better laws, less corruption. Fix those and you fix everything else.

>>937275622
No, currency is for a commodified economy based on exchange value, where compensation is paid in wage.

Labor vouchers are a good rudimentary start for a medium of exchange. You're probably wondering how that differs from currency; there are a couple things, but primarily labor vouchers expire so they cannot be accumulated like capital.

>>937275633
This is a major flaw all communists seem to make. Work does not create value, demand creates value. Something is only valuable when it is desired. It doesn't matter how much you are anybody else works, if the product at the end is not desired, you have created no value.

>>937275633
Pure utopian idealism

>>937275731
>primarily labor vouchers expire so they cannot be accumulated like capital.
So people are forced to live a life of subsistence? Never able to grow their personal wealth so why would they try to work harder?

>>937275748
Communists don't think "demand" doesn't exist. Marx acknowledges demand via "socially necessity"

>>937275795
Only once the labor voucher has converted into the good or service is the value retained

>>937275804
That is just naive. Demand clearly exists in everything. In a society of starving people, food is more valuable than in a society of well-fed people. Marx was wrong back then and he has been wrong ever since.

>>937275879
You clearly didn't understand my point that's ok

>>937275844
And so forcing everybody to become complete consumers? Isn't this just a way worse version of consumer capitalism? And who is going to be issuing said vouchers?

>>937275901
You just live in a bubble, I would recommend learning some basic economics and then come back to the discusion

>>937275921
I'm not sure how your logic leads you to believe that will make everyone a "complete consumer," or what you even mean by that.

Labor vouchers would likely be determined and issued based on recommendations and reports of industry leads, who would be democratically elected

>>937275937
I have a degree in economics and even worked to publish economic research with my professors in undergrad

>>937276022
So if people cannot store the vouchers themselves, as they expire, the only way they can retain the value they have earned through their labour is to cash in the vouchers for goods or services. This effectively forces everybody to spend everything they have earned, people are not free to save their wealth and use it as they please. It's just a shittier form of currency

>>937276101
It's a more efficient form of currency. Granted, not perfect, but much better since it needs to be spent on something.

>>937276046
Oh okay so you are just retarded? Or is this a roleplaying thread?

>>937276135
>much better since it needs to be spent on something.
Why is that better? That removes a great benefit of money which is that it allows individuals freedom to use or store their wealth at their discretion.

>>937276143
Based on our discussion so far, I think it's clear I understand the economic sciences much better than you. This shouldn't be a surprise to you.

>>937276197
Because it's going back into the economy and not sitting in an individual's bank account. Come on anon, some of these questions I know you can answer yourself.

>>937276289
You'll be really mad to learn I'm also a banker now

>>937276209
Haha oh it is a roleplay thread. You were only pretending to be a retarded communist. You are a great actor anon

>>937276340
Seethe I guess

>>937276238
So you are just vouching for consumerism then? Why shouldnt a person be allowed to hold on to their own wealth that they earned through their labour?

>>937276351
Yes I'm totally seething right now, you got me! Awww darn it - owned again by the big brain marxist. How does this always happen?!?!

>>937276371
Because currency feeds the MCM-CMC cycle which can be used to acquire means-of-production, the source of power

>>937276405
Yeah I can tell, it's kind of cringe tbh

>>937275250
Virtually all advances in technology were driven by the profit motive. Including the device you're shitposting on now.

>>937276503
And at one point slaves. Who cares?

>>937276312
And an astronaut too, amirite?

>>937276423
That doesnt answer the question though. Why shouldnt a person have control over his own wealth

>>937276528
Only when I'm tripping balls

>>937276556
It does. And people will still have control over their wealth. You're just not making an attempt to understand my point because you're arguing in bad faith, which is why I'm about to cut you off

>>937276438
I know... you embarrassed me so bad that im literally crying right now, i wet my diaper

>>937276603
Classic commie move, avoid the question, accuse the other party of acting in bad faith, then run away

>>937276621
That's more information than I needed. It's just the internet, maybe you should take some time off

>>937276660
Ok, bye then. It's really your loss

>>937275633
>Work creates work
Ah, there is the flaw; neophyte circular 'logic'.
Work creates results, either as services provided or product created. These are value and assets that sustain commerce and economy.
Progress and improvement requires a change of state, sown fields-harvested crops-hulled grain-ground into flour-chocolate chip cookies; dirt, manure and unprepared seed grain is not a chocolate chip cookie. If "work creates work" then it can not change in any direction except depletion, trapped in self consuming loop. This is why the core principles of Communism and Socialism fail.

>>937276665
Its just that you owned me so bad with your superior communist brain. It's actually turning me gay for you

>>937276729
It happens

>>937276688
It is my loss, I was having fun laughing at you

>>937276750
You seemed too busy asking questions about basic stuff, I couldn't tell

>>937271383 (OP)
What we are seeing is more akin to fucking feudalism.
It hasn't been capitalism for a long time.

And yeah if we don't get rid of the pedophile elites, it will just be Communism but with pedophile commisats instead of billionaires they will just own the planet out right under the guise of being THE STATE.

>>937276770
Well you couldnt even answer the basic questions, that was the funny part

>>937276883
Your failure to understand the answers does not mean they weren't answered

>>937272065
lazy people starving? But there are some downsides

>>937276518
>Who cares?
If only we could ask all the dead people modern medicine could have saved.

>>937277051
Of course you're a pedo, youre a leftist

>>937275226
Excellent, so why have 100% profit instead of 50% or 150%?
>This is figurative...for autists who are blind to figurative speech

>>937277130
sez the pedo lover
everybody knows you're not like the rest of us

>>937277151
>>937277202
Who said I am a republican? Who said I'm an american?

>>937277316
Oh sorry

>>937277375
Now that's more like it

>>937277486
Happy to help represent your kind most accurately

>>937277568
das RITE

honk honk if trump fell off a cliff well I wouldn't be able to contain my chortling laughter xDDDDDD

Holy hell what an L for capitalists this thread was

>>937281626
LEARN OBEDIENCE PEON

>>937281940
WORK YOU LAZY PEON.

>>.937271383
But Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Venezuela. Nicaragua, and Cuba are historical proof that COMMUNISM CAN NEVER WORK!
>You're stuck with Capitalism.
>Find a way to improve it, and reform it.

>>937271383 (OP)
But Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia, Venezuela. Nicaragua, and Cuba are historical proof that COMMUNISM CAN NEVER WORK!
>You're stuck with Capitalism.
>Find a way to improve it, and reform it.

>>937271383 (OP)
Capitalism: An economic system in which the jeans of production are controlled by private owners, rather than by the State.
>Congress is disproportionately millionaires
Duh, they control the market through regulation (making it not capitalism).
>People can't afford homes
Duh, the government subsidized housing purchases (not capitalism) and artificially restricts what people can build (also not capitalism)
>Government spends a bunch of money on the government-controlled military and other bullshit, instead of things that people (consumers) want
Duh, you have resources being associated politically rather than consensually.
Everything you're complaining about is because the government controls the economy. To solve those problems, you'd have to get the government out of everyone's business, which would mean pure capitalism.
The solution you propose (socialism) is the thing we have that causes the problems you see, and the actual solution (capitalism) is the thing we don't have that you blame our problems on.
That's like being terminally obese due to a sedentary lifestyle and a shitty diet of junk food, and blaming your problems on vegetables and exercise.

>>937283139
>The jeans of production