Welcome to the /XMR/ Monero General, dedicated to the discussion of the world's most widely adopted privacy coin.

Monero payments are anonymous, low-fee by design and fully fungible, meaning users can send XMR globally without issue and receive XMR without having to worry about tainted coins. Battle-tested privacy tech (Ring Signatures, Stealth Addresses and RingCT) ensures that critical TX data cannot be gleaned from the Monero blockchain. Thus by default, the TX history of all Monero users is kept hidden from the prying eyes of adversaries, with TXs being optionally transparent via the aid of a view key.

Monero algorithmically ensures low TX fees by employing a dynamic (elastic) block size that can "stretch" to easily accommodate sudden TX spikes.

Monero's bespoke mining algorithm, RandomX, is optimized for devices using general-purpose CPUs e.g. desktops, laptops, smartphones, tablets, keeping the barrier to entry low and ASICs out of the equation.

Monero's tail emission - 0.6 XMR every block forever - financially incentives for-profit miners to keep mining, helping boost long-term network security. This constant linear inflation asymptotically trends to zero and is offset somewhat by a steady rate of coin loss.

Monero has thus far proven to be the only altcoin capable of overcoming BTC's network effect by driving it out of the darknet economy BTC dominated for over 10 years. Monero is now also starting to overtake BTC in clearnet commerce as well. See below.

If you still have questions, feel free to ask and a MoneroChad will be with you shortly.


XMR Redpill: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=wq6w03E2DS4

XMR Resources: https://libereco.xyz/resources/

XMR Stats: moneroj.net

USE XMR: https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/

OFFICIAL WEBSITE - getmonero.org

WHERE TO BUY XMR: https://i.imgur.com/XdppsQ7.png
Crypto ATMs: see kycnot.me

>MINING
archive.is/TWOah

HOW TO STORE MONERO?

>Desktop
Official GUI/CLI
Featherwallet

>Mobile
IOS: Cakewallet
Android: Monerujo

PREVIOUS THREAD: >>60477364

START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL
START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL

P2Pool combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully control your Monero node and what it mines, but you get frequent payouts like on a regular pool.

P2Pool has no central server that can be shut down/blocked because it uses a separate blockchain to merge mine with Monero. There's no pool admin that can control what your hashrate is used for or decide who can mine on the pool and who can't. It's permissionless!

Decentralized pool mining (P2Pool) is pretty much the ultimate way to secure a PoW coin against 51% attacks. Once P2Pool reaches & maintains 51%+ of the total network hashrate, Monero will be essentially invulnerable to such attacks.

Although many inexperienced miners think that bigger pools give better profits, this is absolutely NOT the case. Your profits in the long run depend ONLY on your hashrate, NOT on the pool's hashrate.


>YOU CAN NOW MINE IN P2POOL FASTER & EASIER THAN EVER BEFORE WITH THE GUPAX GUI. USES TRUSTED REMOTE NODES BY DEFAULT!!!!

1. Download the *bundled* version of Gupax for your OS here: https://gupax.io/downloads/
2. Extract somewhere (Desktop, Documents, etc)
3. Launch Gupax
4. Input your Monero address in the [P2Pool] tab. USE A SEPARATE MINING-ONLY WALLET!
5. Select a Community Monero Node that you trust, although you can and should run your own node if possible.
6. Start P2Pool
7. Start XMRig

VIDEO GUIDE: https://gupax.io/guide/

You are now mining to your own instance of P2Pool, welcome to the world of decentralized peer-to-peer mining!

>NOTE THAT DUE TO BOTNET SHENANIGANS XMRIG IS AUTO-FLAGGED AS MALWARE BY MOST ANTI-VIRUSES, SO DON'T FREAK OUT!!!


OLD GUIDE FOR P2POOL MINING FROM THE MONERO GUI WALLET: https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/eecbe

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining
https://web.xmrpool.eu/xmr-monero-easy-mining-guide.html
https://monero.hashvault.pro/en/getting-started
https://www.supportxmr.com

*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****


Learn more about Monero's key features and excellent future prospects, have some common misconceptions dispelled and discover the cold hard facts about Bitcoin, Zcash and PirateChain. Also featured is a noob-friendly buying, storage and wallet guide.


>Monero: it's what new Bitcoin users think they bought. Every feature, explained
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org


>Why Monero is so untraceable: a rundown of the powerful stealth tech Monero utilizes
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroIsUntraceable


>The Writing on the Wall: Monero replacing Bitcoin as the new standard
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroReplacingBitcoin


>Breaking News: no, Monero still isn't traceable
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD


>Vaporware: why nobody is worried about CipherTrace's magic crystal ball
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#CipherTraceFail


>Very Clever Math: how we can verify that the XMR supply isn't being inflated
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#MuhInflationBug


>Pssst, wanna buy some Monero? Follow these simple how-to guides
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BuyAndStoreMonero


>Bitcoin: The Original Non-Fungible Token
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BitcoinBlackpill


>Why Monero is Better than Zcash: the "privacy coin" criminals won't touch
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#ZcashBlackpill


>The Lowdown on PirateChain: why this Zcash clone is considered a scam
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#PirateChainBlackpill


>LATEST UPDATES

- added Proof-of-Stake update to Zcash Blackpill
- added list of available desktop/mobile wallets
- expanded all sections with more relevant info, graphics & videos
- added easily linkable headers and sub-headers (link icon to the far right)
- added a new section about traceability FUD

Never forget what this is ultimately all about. Don't be a HODLtard.

https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism/
https://freedomcells.org/

>Help grow the circular Monero economy: buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!

https://monerica.com/
https://xmrbazaar.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/
https://kycnot.me/?t=service&q=&xmr=on

>Shop on Amazon with XMR!
https://monezon.com
https://peershop.app

>Live off XMR with Cake Pay (now available in 140+ countries!)
https://cakepay.com/

>or with CoinCards
https://coincards.com/


>Monero stickers for guerilla marketing
http://monerosupplies.com/

>Anonymous burner phone numbers
https://silent.link/

>Monero-only VPS hosting
https://kyun.host/

>Win XMR!
https://monero.vegas/


Say buh-bye to Bitcoin and support the growing number of Monero-only darknet markets/vendors.

# = recently launched, exercise caution

>Alias Market #
>Archetyp
>Asur Market
>Babylon #
>Calypso #
>Candy Haven #
>Chimera Market
>Cloud Market
>Cypher Market
>Dark Matter
>DrugHub #
>DrugTown #
>Drugula #
>FilthyFellas
>Gofish Market #
>Gramazon #
>Hectate Market #
>Mercury Market #
>Pygmalion's Refuge
>Retro Market
>Smackers
>Sonanza Market #
>Squid Market
>SuperMarket #
>Tribe Seuss
>Whales Market #
>Wizard's Palace #
>World Trade Center #
Links: https://pastebin.com/raw/fF95wTNi


Anonymously exchange BTC for XMR using a reputable darknet service

>Majestic Bank
>Infinity Project
https://pastebin.com/raw/75mVpfED

or a reputable clearnet service

https://trocador.app/en/ | I2P: http://trocador.i2p/en/
https://xmrswap.me
https://unstoppableswap.net
http://basicswapdex.com


>Want to support further development?
https://ccs.getmonero.org/donate/
https://monerofund.org/

>Join a Monero Workgroup and (potentially) earn XMR!!!
https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/

>Want more Monero-chan?
https://www.monerochan.art/

>How to *safely* acquire, store and spend XMR

An optimal XMR user set-up involves 2 separate wallets: an offline cold wallet (savings account) and an online hot wallet (chequing account) for everyday spending. XMR amounts larger than a few hundred dollars worth should not be stored on a hot wallet for obvious reasons. So ideally, you'll want to direct all payments/donations to your cold wallet by default and then transfer smaller amounts over to your hot wallet as necessary.

Relying on 3rd party hardware wallets comes with certain security caveats so they are not recommended. Instead, its surprisingly easy to engineer a very robust storage solution yourself using readily available hardware: a laptop and a smartphone.

>Laptop

This will be running Featherwallet and must be *permanently* disabled from ever connecting to the internet again! That means physically removing the M.2 Bluetooth/Wi-Fi card and gumming up the ethernet port with superglue.

OS should be Linux rather than Windows, preferably a Debian-based lightweight distro. Encrypting the relevant user directory with LUKS is recommended but not essential.

It must have a functional webcam.


>Smartphone

This can be your primary device. It will host both your hot wallet e.g. Cake, Monerujo, etc and the NERO view-only wallet that is paired with your laptop.

To set everything up: https://4rkal.com/posts/feathernero/

NOTE: if you don't have a laptop you can use another smartphone and install the ANON wallet onto it, its essentially the same thing but with somewhat weaker security guarantees. Video guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJqYzZyqyno

>In a nutshell

- you accept all (substantial) payments to your cold wallet.
- you monitor incoming payments on NERO.
- you initiate the transfer of funds from your cold wallet to hot wallet on NERO and sign the TX on your laptop via QR codes.
- you spend the funds and help grow the XMR economy.


FYI this is the most secure storage solution currently available.

Anyone know if I can mine monero with my phone?

>Bitcoin's price = NOT the result of organic real-world supply & demand = NOT sustainable

Wash trading has been artificially driving BTC's insane price action since the first major spike in 2013.

>Wash Trading 101
1. create/maintain the illusion of high volume
2. wait for poor unsuspecting fools to FOMO in
3. dump at a fat profit and leave them holding the bag

When the supply of gullible fools finally runs out, the entire scheme implodes.

TL;DR: exciting price action means nothing in an unregulated market rife with such manipulation, real-world utilization is the ONLY reliable metric of actual value.

>>60548846
>Anyone know if I can mine monero with my phone?

https://xmrig.com/benchmark?vendor=other

Is he glowie adjacent?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykLZ_xg6FB4

Reposting from previous thread.

Why is Sam Hyde still shilling for BTC in current year? I can't believe he isn't intelligent enough or doesn't have friends in the know.

Is based Luke Smith the only "influencer" who got it right with btc being part of the control system? Watching some internet personalities who get a lot of things right but they just believe btc is going to le overtake the world with btc holders being the new feudal elite in the NWO.

Don't spend, hodl for 10 years and you'll buy everything you want. They won't stop you bro.

>>60548914
look at adam back's twitter. the ceo of bitcoin is mostly interested in MSTR, Metaplanet, and other ponzi schemes. He's just a grifter.

>>60548914

If our devs ever start moonfagging like this, fire up the ovens.

>>60548925
>Why is Sam Hyde still shilling for BTC in current year?
because he wants his followers to buy his bags to fund com98 and sportscars. See mondo megabits, fishtank, etc.

>>60548938
>because he wants his followers to buy his bags to fund com98 and sportscars. See mondo megabits, fishtank, etc

This. Very heavy bags.

>>60548925
Luke Smith got a lesson in privacy when someone controversial killed themselves and donated bitcoin to him, which was later traced back to both of them.
After that he promoted monero a lot.

lmao IntelBroker was traced because he got sloppy and accepted BTC as opposed to XMR, his usual default.

1. An undercover glowie (UC-2) purchased stolen API credentials from IntelBroker using Bitcoin, not Monero.

2. The Bitcoin was sent to a wallet address (BTC Wallet-1) provided by IntelBroker.

3. Blockchain analysis revealed that this wallet had been seeded by another wallet (West Wallet-1), which itself had been funded via a Ramp account (a crypto-fiat on-ramp).

4. That Ramp account was registered using a U.K. provisional driver's license in the name "Kai Logan West", with a known date of birth.


All it takes is once, kids. Stay the fuck away from BTC.

>>60548824 (OP)
Don't know if I approve of the allusion to communist propaganda with that image

>>60549020
>Don't know if I approve of the allusion to communist propaganda with that image

Seems its the go-to style for a classic worker-themed propaganda aesthetic.

>>60548824 (OP)
how to mine solo? And what is the best hardware for it?

>>60548937
>undervalued
But unironically what even is the value beyond le society thinking it has value? What do the BTC maxis say the value of it is besides it being the first thing with number go up momentum?

>>60549098
Monero is beyond communist, trannie-enabling purple haired unemployed toilet cleaners

>>60548824 (OP)
>>60548937
>Seething communist OP
Just stop being poor. That's it. That's all you have to do. literally nothing else. It's so simple. Just. Stop. Being. Poor.

privacy coins are never gonna make it

narrative are scalable L1s again

xrd will be amongst the biggest gainers in second half of the year

>>60549560
Monero isn't just private, it's also the only scalable L1.

>>60549482
>But unironically what even is the value beyond le society thinking it has value?

Might be some value in it being the original NFT. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


>What do the BTC maxis say the value of it is besides it being the first thing with number go up momentum?

lol pic related. HODLtards get very creative when it comes to talking up their bags, the very fact that they keep trying to convince us that BTC is crazy undervalued and that we're all going to miss out on le generational wealth is smoking gun evidence that the whole thing is a greater fool scheme. Anybody trying to help you get rich is trying to exploit you, no exceptions.

why aren't more people using monero to trade in-game items?

love how he keeps insisting that the sender knowing who the receiver is and how much is being sent is somehow this glaring vulnerability lol

Reporting in

>>60548951
>>60548925
Wow. Only a matter of time before more people realize like Luke Smith did.
People don't actually spend or send their bitcoin to buy things so they haven't yet.

>>60549005
this is proof monero is useless for privacy
you can just send bitcoin and identify them anyway

>>60549005
le black hat 1337 hacker
>accepts btc for crime in pre funded wallet

i love wownerochan desu

[Bagholder Detected]

>>60554652
when is she going to moon and flip doge?

>>60554822
Fuck this guy. I sent him XMR in the past.

What is the best way to swap XMR for another crypto like BTC to cash out without risk of getting 'dirty' crypto.

>>60555280
>What is the best way to swap XMR for another crypto like BTC to cash out without risk of getting 'dirty' crypto.

P2P atomic swaps are the riskiest when it comes to receiving tainted coins, so make sure you run an AMLbot scan (using a VPN!!!) on the holding address before you commit to the swap yourself, NEVER MOVE FIRST!!!! Remember that everybody knowingly in possession of radioactive coins is forever scheming how to dump them on some poor unsuspecting sap. Don't be that guy.

Otherwise, use a trusted service like Trocador that routes funds directly from regulated platforms, which ensures you'll be getting clean coins.

Or even better, just stay the fuck away from NFTs in the first place. Buy coveted consumer goods with XMR on the grey market and then flip em for cash on the white market. No paper trail and you help grow the Monero economy, win-win.

>>60555466
>(using a VPN!!!)

On second thought, using a VPN is pointless if you're going to be cashing out the coins you received on a KYC'd platform. But definitely run the scan so you don't end up having your coins seized the instant they're deposited on the exchange.

>>60555538
>OFAC-XBT.png
Based XMR ad.

>>60555559
>Based XMR ad.

damn, I checked and it looks like its out of date, the link no longer works. Seems the list simply got too large. I'll fix it myself.

>>60548824 (OP)
I sold all my altcoins and bought 120 XMR at 400

Still not selling but cant deny it doesnt feel good that the moment I bought it stops pumping.

Never selling though. I believe in the rhetoric.

>>60555611

kek there's a few blacklisted XMR addresses on there as well

>Digital Currency Address - XMR
>88wRZuGMuC5YQvXpKpeLFHQeZWW28XtGyZCizkqeypTaRcjzNNKVrCg7PpoEeWaj5A7wwbh5M2X9ycXrfUkbeptACsG4bVn

>Digital Currency Address - XMR
>8ANG5NBnApL94YAKRfCSaS7g2fjEi1DWVcFNTn3wQ5HpfsgtnusgxaXE24bbhXukTgF8esRnMsWaReRiqNbSBSbmRE5Nm5M

>Digital Currency Address - XMR
>84AwzjeFWXNEuhj8LWinXo93AqYr6wS8ZcnaBCoGhrL7EtvBMBovdhiUSV9xLhjrPA8t64hYSaMc8bHtWXoV9129EHUjU62

>Digital Currency Address - XMR
>87XWTP9tBECHXCwbyMK1KENoy4GeXkRviNzmhNc5Pvo5ExZ1QXjtRRyFeXPuHf7fNiS7KzBZNJeGweJhMbFB647171y66id

>Digital Currency Address - XMR
>86ze8c9oUftDSTxzFBhfSJYpjvw6GYkqjeEaggy3hBVL1ou2tk79DfSj5YiZ3wjDHp541tizcQ8bVCxCtVHQncuc3asa8wz

Utterly fucking pointless because unlike with BTC and other NFTs, its impossible to monitor Monero address activity.

>>60555640
>I sold all my altcoins and bought 120 XMR at 400
>
>Still not selling but cant deny it doesnt feel good that the moment I bought it stops pumping.
>
>Never selling though. I believe in the rhetoric.

lol how many times do people need to be told that Monero is a terrible investment? BTC-only is where its at, bro, guaranteed generational wealth! Just ask any Bitcoin enthusiast, they'll tell you.

That said, you'll be fine, Monerocentric black and grey market activity keeps growing steadily so demand should only increase over time, and with it the price. If you want steady profits, start a grey market business and sell valuable goods/services for XMR to paying customers.

>>60555759
There have been no money made in crypto in the past year except for BTC and XMR.

This rhetoric "fuck off moonfags don't accumulate" is genuinely IDF nonsense to get people to think accumulating the obvious. As I said, people who held XMR have made far more than altcoins who are down at least half on ROI.

>>60555759
I sold everything and went all in XMR at binance delisting at $100. XMR has outperformed BTC this cycle. Stay transparently poor pleb

>>60555787
>There have been no money made in crypto in the past year except for BTC and XMR.

Crypto is a non-productive asset, where did all that extra money come from?

>This rhetoric "fuck off moonfags don't accumulate" is genuinely IDF nonsense to get people to think accumulating the obvious. As I said, people who held XMR have made far more than altcoins who are down at least half on ROI.

No, its a calculated defense strategy to ensure Monero's legendary spending culture is maintained and continues to thrive. HODLtardation leads directly to economic stagnation, which then leads to non-investor demand drying up, which then leads to a total dependency on purely speculative demand (see BTC) and congratulations, you're in a clown market greater fool scheme with a snowball's chance in Hell of actually walking away with more than you put in.

Moonfags don't care about the lofty ideals of agorism, crypto-anarchy or cypherpunk, they're only here to exploit the revolution and quickly enrich themselves at the expense of counter-economic activity (pic related). Which is why they get the rope.

The ironic thing is that if they had half a fucking brain they'd realize its in their financial interest to minimize the number of fellow HODLtards and maximize the number of spenders/shoppers because that's the only way the ROI math can actually work. But no, they keep moonfagging all over social media like utter morons and unwittingly boosting the number of baggies they'll later be competing with for what little exit liquidity is left.

In any case, you can be absolutely certain that Monero Extremists worldwide will continue educating the uninitiated masses about what a terrible investment Monero truly is and why they should instead be earning and spending XMR at every opportunity.

>>60555789
>I sold everything and went all in XMR at binance delisting at $100. XMR has outperformed BTC this cycle. Stay transparently poor pleb

Read between the lines, brah.

>>60556056
>23pbtid
You're specifically the Jew I'm talking about

>Minimize the HODLers and maximize the spenders because that's the only way ROI math can work

So... It isn't a terrible investment if these Monero extremists continue to use the asset how it was intended.

You aren't even retarded, you're a full blown controlled shill. All opinions discarded.

>>60556071
I am retarded. Thank you for reminding me.

>>60556080
>You're specifically the Jew I'm talking about

L'chaim. *tips kippah*

>So... It isn't a terrible investment if these Monero extremists continue to use the asset how it was intended.

Jesus Christ, you're dense. Do the math and try again.

>You aren't even retarded, you're a full blown controlled shill. All opinions discarded.

Oh shit, they know!

>>60556119
>Guy who creates the sanctioned biz XMR thread doesn't want anyone to HODL
>he's been like this for years

Your post I responded to made no sense. You had no response to my post about how what you're saying evidently (with last year's PA) makes no sense so you had to act like it's some inside joke only you in all your Jewness understands

>>60556205

Approximate how many MXs exist globally and then do the math on how many would actually be required to provide sufficient exit liquidity to every individual moonfag investor while remembering that the total number of moonfag investors will only keep growing exponentially as you geniuses convince evermore slack-jawed morons that hoarding XMR is going to make them millionaires.

Russian here
where to buy monero

>>60555787
It's not IDF, it's oldfags who don't understand why moonfags took over bitCohen in the first place. They're complaining about a problem that basically can't exist in Monero due to RandomX (prevents a bitmain-esque actor from putting non-corporate miners out of business) and dynamic blocks (makes picking and choosing which txs to mine unprofitable, therefore the only way miners profit from fees is if tx counts go up). Because these don't exist in bitcoin the only way their miners can make money is to sell their coins and outdated ASICs to moonfags and hope they never try cashing out on-chain.

>>60556603
Retoswap - download program, accepts fiat
Trocador.app - swap Crypto-crypto

>>60556250
Not my problem. I'm early.

what the fuck has been up with the price recently?

>>60557305
New floor is 300 burgerbucks

Qubic already having 15% of our hashrate is pretty embarrassing. We need more people mining.

>>60549482
>guide to bitcoin
>visa mastercard...
(笑)

>>60557780
Who cares? Sometimes random coins get high hashrates for a couple of weeks. Literally no one cares.

Apparently there's a shitstorm brewing behind the scenes of Mavrick's Le Epic Gamechanging Monero Project™, looks like it'll end up being an overhyped dud.

Stop donating to obvious grifters, y'all.

>>60559745
C-cute

Sing this and proton will add support for XMR payments: https://monero.observer/tuxpizza-2/

Favorite moonboy compilation videos?

>>60562267
>Favorite moonboy compilation videos?

>>60562313
Do you think the overwhelming surplus of garbage slop content everywhere will ever get better within our lifetimes?

I want to have hope...

Getting adoption is great and I encourage people to do so. I also think it has a future as a "private store of value" though. Bitcoiners are getting letters from the IRS. Nobody really wants to figure out how to open shell companies and lawyers etc but "swiss bank account in your pocket" is a really good narrative.

>>60562573
>I also think it has a future as a "private store of value" though.
Agreed. Monero is good money. Being money also includes using it for savings. Regularly toss some monero into your cold storage.

Fuck this crab coin. Wasted years of my life in this shit

>>60562486
>Do you think the overwhelming surplus of garbage slop content everywhere will ever get better within our lifetimes?

As long as it remains profitable to produce and disseminate slop, no. Unless AI gets good enough to start filtering it out.

>>60563834
>Fuck this crab coin. Wasted years of my life in this shit

lol

>>60563834
Based. Monero is a terrible investment. Please don't buy monero.

comfynero

Absolute newfag here, I wanted to start on crypto, and this seems like a safe enough start, dont even want to heavily invest, but I have some questions:
How resource intensive is this? I have a old laptop toaster, dunno if I can even mine, if at all, or just start sending pocket money over time
Do you reccomend a VPN for this for extra security, os is that not how it works

Im also thinking of starting using THOR,etc

>>60565843
Mining is CPU based, you wont earn a lot and your power bill is gonna be higher.

If you want to pass the wallet via tor or a VPN you can it depends on how little attention you want to draw to yourself.

Read the site getmonero thats mentioned in the OP post

So some salty Bitfag is putting together a publication entitled "The Lightning Standard" and it contains a chapter on Monero and explains why its a shitcoin.

Some excerpts for your amusement.

>you look lonely

>>60548824 (OP)
I tried to swap BTC for XMR on Cake Wallet but it doesn't work. It says something like "none of the selected providers can do this trade". Anyone know what the issue might be? I'm pretty bullish on xmr.

>>60563846
then you end up with the problem of people curating slop to pass the filter and the arms race goes on...

>>60567799
Just pick a different service from orangefren, trocador, or kycnot.me. cake wallet uses the same providers for their swaps anyways

>>60567935
Is kycnot.me safe and private? (The name implies yes)

>>60567940
Yes. It's just a website that links to other websites that don't do kyc. And let's you know if they have a tor link
Trocador probs the most trust worthy (monero wallet dev swap-site)
Has a $1k insurance incase a trade goes sour somehow

>>60568889
Is 0.02 XMR enough to deposit on any of those P2P exchange sites? I randomly found my old wallet and I want to get some more. I'm about to buy 30 bucks worth via this method
https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/m5fM/

>>60554822
Completely ignores monero's atomic swaps

>>60570092
Actually he says atomic swaps have minimal liquidity, he's still wrong

>>60568927
OP of that link said he will setup a no deposit p2p trade for you on retoswap, if you download it, to start you off.

>>60566858
tldr?

>>60570681
>Bachelor's of Economic Science, YouTube University, Salutatorian

>>60552443
based wireybro

>>60570681
>tldr?

Monero can't be money because its a barter token and is pointless because BTC is irreplaceable.

Hey not much of tech fag, how safe is my monero if it’s just on a feather wallet on my regular laptop running windows? I don’t have much but I’m reluctant to stack more when I read about the never connected superglued laptop encrypted and so on method. I assume this is for people who have their life savings in it? Do people get their wallets/hacked or drained regularly? Is it because browsing the dark et leaves you more open to attacks?

>>60571392
I just learned of feather, I was in the process of doing my own node but if feathers just as good I’d rather just keep it simple

>>60570681
>Monero isn't money because
>1. Crab coin
>2. Decentralised mining
>3. Decentralised mining

>Monero can't be money because
>1. Dollars are money
>2. Dollars are money
>3. Bitcoin is the only crypto allowed ever
>4. Bitcoin is the only crypto allowed ever
>5. Hoarding>>>money = force of nature

>bitcoin shouldn't ever try become useful because that would lower it to competing with other cryptos, defeating the magic of point 3

>>60571392
>windows
Unironically the reason why the never connected superglued laptop encrypted drive meme exists is because of how hard it is to secure a Windows device. Any dedicated non-windows device that you have lying around will do just fine.

>>60571392
Yeah it's fine.

>>60571401
Wallets and nodes are separate. You can use feather with your own node and the official gui with a remote node and vice versa. I like feather and use it with my own local node (monerod.exe).

>>60571401
>>60571438
>I like feather and use it with my own local node (monerod.exe).
I do the same, works well and is simple for noobs compared to gui

>>60571392
It is hard to evaluate how safe is your monero on your laptop. Windows is inherently less secure than Linux (because it's the most used OS, so attackers have incentives to develop hacks that will reach the most people), but Windows itself without any extra bullshit is good enough for most use cases.

I'm willing to say that the extreme majority of crypto hacks happen due to phishing. You said you're not much of a tech fag, but are you retarded? This is an important question. Do you love clicking on links from emails that appear to be fraudulent? Do you pirate games on your laptop and install a bunch of cracks to get your software running? Are you a developer constantly installing shit and new LLM models and whatever else the fuck? Likely not since you're not a tech fag.
So yeah, you should be alright.
Otherwise, if you are still reluctant, try to use 45 minutes of your free time this week to visit the TailsOS website, then grab yourself a USB stick and install Tails on it. Use it for a little while. Maybe you will find it easy. Then create a wallet there. Turn it off. Turn it on again. Is your wallet still there? Well you're getting the hang of it. Then when you feel safe enough, maybe transfer your monero stack there.

Good luck!

If I have my seed phrase in a physical form and it exists nowhere in digital form, is it fine having a Windows computer?

>>60572951
Sure it is.
You can even have a view-only version of your wallet so you can see incoming transactions and your total balance (but if you spend, you will need to import the view key of these transactions for the balance to update correctly).

But if you have your seed phrase in a physical form, you should at least consider these:
- What happens if something happen and you're away from your seed? Should you consider multiple copies?
- Do you know people who may not like you and that are aware of what a "seed phrase" looks like? If a bad actor finds the piece of paper or whatever, will they know this is a crypto wallet and will they try to recover it without your knowledge?
- If your house burns down, did you just lose your only copy of the seed phrase?

Pic related, a cautionary tale people often forget about.

TNN

>>60570657
Very cool, I'll have to get in touch with him again. I ended up buying $45 dollars worth at a 10% fee using one of those mobile deposit things

>>60554843
soon enough

ypn4w

DO NOT REDEEM

>>60555658
>88w...
>8AB...
>84A...
>87X...
>86z...
bruh, they all start with 8. these are all sub-addresses, probably for the same main/real address (they the themselves control and probably created) -_-

>>60566858
it's pretty acceptable since the value of the coin is only that which is enough to sate the shadow economy. if the value drops below what is needed on the shadow economy then hodlers are providing a service which is rewarded by increased price as they sell off to provide liquidity. seems fine to me. you'll just have an equilibrium price that may vary drastically over time.

>>60578268
so if they were using cash we should shut that down too right? dumb article.

>>>60581763

>>60581774
>Network effects in technology are extremely strong. Generally, the first technology that is "good enough" and achieves network effects develops a wide moat that prevents competitors from actually mounting a strong attempt at gaining market share.

>Bitcoin is being intentionally propped up by the government as an attempt to prevent network effects from accruing to a privacy coin (essentially, Monero).

>If network effects were achieved in a privacy coin, it would be a legitimate challenge to the central banking system and the ability of the United States empire to project power. It would also prevent government agencies from acquiring the new powers of financial surveillance that public blockchains provide. Attempting to astroturf Bitcoin as the "one and true digital currency" is a matter of national security compared to privacy coin alternatives.

Here's the thing though: Bitcoin isn't actually used the same way Monero is actually used. BTC is now acquired purely for future resale/profits and is in no way a threat to the State because unlike XMR, BTC simply doesn't work well under highly adversarial conditions, at this point nobody even expects it to.

Shilling BTC as the "one and true digital currency" therefore doesn't negatively impact XMR adoption because those that actually need a viable decentralized P2P payment system aren't speculators who are easily swayed by Saylorisms, they're rational actors in search of serious solutions, not moonfags chasing NGU. Thus the only network effect BTC now enjoys is among speculators who were never going to actually use it in the first place, and speculators sure are a fickle bunch.

TL;DR: Bitcoin has hoarding, Monero has adoption.

coming soon...

>>60548824 (OP)
>low fee
why would I pay to transact unless I live somewhere destroyed by hyperinflation?

you are already paying you just don't know it.. x% from visa processing fees added on cost to item, y% from taxation.

Payment secures the network and gives you control. "Free tx" and you're the product. Same goes for all large scale "free" things. Think about incentives.

>>60583806
Minting coins or printing notes is not free either so you're paying for it one way or another.

I don't care what /xmrg/ says. I'm going to HODL Monero.

>>60584299
Based. HODL is a valid use case when it's not the only use case

>>60553731
>wearing pants in public is useless because you can just flash them anyway

>>60572951
What is also important is how that seed phrase is generated.

>>60584508
Care to explain?

Question,
How possible is it to find out where all the XMR miners are and then to just airstrike them the same way israel has been air striking hospitals.
Serious question?

>>60585013
If it were to start happening people would start mining over TOR and/or have their whole mining network proxy via some other machine somewhere else.

>>60585013

A standard Gupax setup configured for a trusted community node running over Tor/I2P is basically invisible

>>60585202
>>60585025
>basically invisible
Fucking sick, would many people do it? or would it leave the network less secure and therefore more likely to 51% attacks?

>>60585253
I don't see why they wouldn't do it, if they want to be close to invisible they can be.
That type of attack is not more viable because people are obfuscating their location

>QUBIC ambassador
>next coin poised for a price decline is $XMR
>The future belongs to adaptive tech, not outdated privacy layers.
XMRbros, how are we feeling?

>>60585253
>Fucking sick, would many people do it? or would it leave the network less secure and therefore more likely to 51% attacks?

Mining over the darknet is for people who wish to keep their hashing efforts off the radar. Different folks, different threat profiles. And no, this doesn't reduce overall network security, it just obfuscates where exactly the miners are located.

Personally, I think everybody should do be doing it, specifically over I2P because bandwidth improves with more users. Why should your ISP know you're mining XMR?

Fun-fact: mining BTC over the darknet is pointless if you imported the ASICs yourself, no plausible deniability about your intentions.

>>60585327
What does this shitcoin even do

>>60585327

All this faggot does is talk tough on X.

>>60585263
>>60585400
Both of you didn't fully get what I was saying, I'll try again.

In a hypothetical where it's only possible to mine over TOR. It will reduce the honest miners, therefore making it easier for jewish miners to 51% attack.
Does that sound about right?

>>60585426
You think mining power is gonna go down because they would somehow shutdown and or blacklist every node on the clear net forcing people to use TOR? They probably arent gonna SWAT raid some 800+ servers at the same time

To perform a 51% attack you go after the miningpools and bribe or hijack them, which would mean you only need to attack a few hosts/targets.

If pools start going offline people could move to p2pool for decentralized mining, or solo mine with less stable payouts using their own blockchain instance.

>>60584299
As someone who actually uses monero frequently, yeah I basically bought a "hodl" amount a long time ago. If I hadn't, I would have had to waste a ridiculous amount of time doing little top offs and coin swaps every time I needed to spend monero

>>60585410
>>60585425
they're trying to create an AI Goylem
>>60585797
>hodl amount
what's the consensus on the # of XMR for the make it and various stacks?

>>60585849
>what's the consensus on the # of XMR for the make it and various stacks?

How do we fix this?

>>60587506
Do nothing. FCMP++ should remove remove the 10 block lock on transactions, which will allow to count to 10x

kek this is the best they can do.

RIP bozo

>>60588819
why are europoors and their owners like this?

Monero is not private and Lightning Network is more private. Here is my latest challenge proving this to someone on twitter.

https://x.com/SuperTestnet/status/1942085134385127577

https://files.catbox.moe/umazlb.webm

>>60591332
>Monero is not private and Lightning Network is more private. Here is my latest challenge proving this to someone on twitter.

Why are you challenging random Twitter posters instead of Chainalysis?

>>60591625
>Just ape into the asset I'm hoarding, there's no way you can lose, bro!

Textbook greater fool scheme.

>>60592250

We're Hitting Straw Grasping Levels That Shouldn't Even Be Possible.

>>60593127
I had someone "prove" the traceability of Monero in a thread last week by showing the coinbase transaction of a block.

>>60593414

Yeah, I saw that. They were actually trying to disprove that amounts don't appear on the blockchain lol

Can someone tell the CakeWallet dev to change their shity logo or to at least provide a dark icon/background? Shit is an eyesore

sup /xmr/
is kyun good for household vpn? Bandwidth limit of 100 Mb looks like shit

>>60593414
> what is a sybil attack and what is well funded for $10,000,000
gotta pay to play this game boyo

>>60593127
>I traced the transaction that I made
Can he prove that he made that transaction?

>>60593886
Yeah the slice of cake logo is gay as hell, I preferred the old one

>>60594701
Mulvad has been the best IMO, idk anything about the one you named. But with mulvad I'm able to still play comp games online with 0 lag

>>60595043
kyun.host is a VPS that I want to use for a VPN
I need to control my VPN fully since my country likes to fuck with popular protocols and service providers

can businesses outside the united states even accept monero as payment method? the worst thing about monero is that it's an amazing tool but we live in a retarded system so we can't have greater relevant adoption without some kind of revolution; or retardation-exhaustion that will make people look for an alternative.
before that we're just a bunch of early adopters masturbating each other.

>>60596940

White market acceptance is by definition permissioned and subject to State interference, so don't hold your breath.

The future is in permissionless P2P grey markets selling legal goods & services at sub-retail prices, basically darknet eBays and Craigslists with a whole lotta smuggling.

>>60596940
>some kind of revolution
BTC got to $100k just through a few rich people and exchanges manipulating prices for a few years.

Imagine a truly revolutionary crypto where people genuinely park major portions of their wealth in to escape endless surveillance and on chain government seizures for increasingly ridiculous reasons.

Unironically believe XMR is going to $1M

>>60548824 (OP)
Bump

>>60597000
>The future is in permissionless P2P grey markets
is it, though? most normies are happy with way things are
i draw the parallel with the social unrest. you can argue that the western world is utter bullshit, quality of life is terrible, uncontrolled retarded immigration brings a fuck ton of issues in the united states and europe
and still nothing is really done and the normies are still consuming goyslop and watching tv

so
what will really take for people to go into permissionless p2p grey markets? maybe a small percentage of people but that's my point, it should stay as a niche thing for many decades to come

>>60599659
>is it, though?
it already is, in a sense. most purchases are people buying things from each other and small shops, not megacorps and online deliveries as media would have you believe; and even in that last one's case facebook marketplace are substantial players despite being mostly user-to-user transactions/purchases

>>60599659
>>The future is in permissionless P2P grey markets
>is it, though? most normies are happy with way things are
>what will really take for people to go into permissionless p2p grey markets?

Finish the rest of the sentence

>selling legal goods & services at sub-retail prices

The keywords here being "sub-retail prices". Grey markets are really good at one thing: undercutting white markets, offering shoppers the exact same goods/services but at a lower price. Tailor-made for penny pinching consumers in search of a better deal.

Consider for example Asia, where smart devices are routinely smuggled and sold on grey markets at, you guessed it, sub-retail prices. The seller still makes a profit, the buyer walks away with a legit device without paying full price for it, its a pure win-win.

So, to answer your question, we can expect normies to take a keener interest in permissionless P2P grey markets when the legal goods & services they're after become available on said markets at competitive prices. Just need to make them aware of their options and let human nature take its course.

>>60600045
motherfucker, is that a chatGPT article -_-

>>60599772
>>60600045
i'm not trying to be an asshole, but i don't know many people who adventure themselves in grey markets.
i think this could be a reality in under developed places like south america or asia where the government doesn't necessarily have the manpower to force compliance.
in united states and most of europe i have a hard time imagining legitimate businesses (small or not) accepting monero on an environment where it is considered illegal and may risk jail time or paying massive fines.

for normies to take a keener interest in p2p grey markets they would need to be willing to run the risk of not having warranty (grey market means no invoice), of not having a refund option available, and the small business would need to be willing to be fined or jailed in case of an audit.

under CONVENIENCE-MAXXING environments like the ones we live, retarded normies may prefer to use US-approved digital wallet for digital USD and knowing he won't have any headache (except that he lives in a fully manipulated economic reality and is being tracked on every transaction) than using monero and 'risking' stuff, considering the store even accept it as payment in the first place.

i do accept that under economic distress people will start buying second-hand shit on facebook marketplace, but that's very very far from broader adoption. otherwise we're condemning monero to only work in grey markets forever.

>>60601157
>i'm not trying to be an asshole, but i don't know many people who adventure themselves in grey markets.

Heard of darknet (black) markets? Virtually all the customers shopping there are regular everyday normies. Been that way since day 1.

>in united states and most of europe i have a hard time imagining legitimate businesses (small or not) accepting monero on an environment where it is considered illegal and may risk jail time or paying massive fines.

Legit (white) commerce is by definition not agorist. Counter-economic (black/grey) commerce necessarily involves a degree of secrecy.

So no, established white market business are not in a position to accept XMR payments if the State disapproves. But black/grey market business conducted under a veil of secrecy (in person or over the darknet) is not subject to this kind of oversight.

>for normies to take a keener interest in p2p grey markets they would need to be willing to run the risk of not having warranty (grey market means no invoice), of not having a refund option available, and the small business would need to be willing to be fined or jailed in case of an audit.

Yeah, that's the trade-off: lower price, fewer perks. No warranties, no refunds yet the Asian consumer electronics grey market still thrives. No warranties, no refunds yet the darknet black market economy still thrives and keeps growing. Personally, I've never had any issue with my smart devices that required invoking the warranty so buying one on the grey market isn't something I'd be super wary of.

>but that's very very far from broader adoption. otherwise we're condemning monero to only work in grey markets forever.

lol you have any idea just how massive the global shadow economy is? Trillions with a T. And all of it underground and permissionless.

There is no such thing as permissionless white markets so we have no interest in them. Wherever the State dictates how you can spend your money, you're not truly free.

>>60601500
>Virtually all the customers shopping there are regular everyday normies
Seems like a bit of a stretch.
>No warranties, no refunds yet the darknet black market economy still thrives
Most DNMs have escrow and you can easily get a refund.

>>60566858
unfortunately lightning is an afterthought not widely supported and confusing to use

>>60601638
>Seems like a bit of a stretch.

Why? All it takes is acquiring crypto and running Tor browser. Hardly rocket science. Don't forget that Silk Road enjoyed a significant Streisand Effect back then, and reporting about DNMs in mainstream media hasn't let up since.

>Most DNMs have escrow and you can easily get a refund.

Not if them item malfunctions *after* you've released funds.

>>60601704
>unfortunately lightning is an afterthought not widely supported and confusing to use

Bitfags have trouble grasping reality.

>>60601758
>All it takes is acquiring crypto and running Tor browser.
Yeah, normies don't really do that usually. Normies know people or just ask around for a source. Buying drugs on the Internet is for nerds.
>Not if them item malfunctions *after* you've released funds.
Well, true, if we're talking electronics. DNMs are mostly drugs, though, maybe also things like credit cards and the like.

>>60601500
my negro you have any idea how retarded the average normie is?
you live in some parallel reality where 'all it takes' is installing tor and acquiring crypto in an anonymous way
how many friends you have
do you even have a job with colleagues you speak to?
the average normie is a zombie who will do over 95% of their transactions in legit commerce, the other 5% buying weird shit on facebook marketplace (who could ban any mention of xmr)
>muh asian grey markets
not sure if you're serious about this, because yes there's a lot of shit going through back channels in asia but most of the electronics end up being sold in some alibaba website where sellers can maintain plausible deniability about seller authorization status. the end of the sales workflow is almost always a 'legit' market that complies with local government regulation and accepting monero would likely be a big no no.
>muh global shadow economy
yes lil bro it's giant weehaa i'm not talking about this i'm talking about retarded normies which comprise the absolute vast majority of global population
>no such thing as permissionless white markets so we have no interest in them
we who?
my first comment on this matter is about how we get monero to not be about a bunch of early adopters masturbating each other

there's no gotcha
i just want to develop this idea, play the game theory and project the environment for monero to NOT be only a niche currency

>>60601804
>Yeah, normies don't really do that usually.

Clearly they do because the darknet economy is a thing and keeps growing over time.

>Normies know people or just ask around for a source.

Those that can, do. Those that can't, ask around or figure it out for themselves.

>Buying drugs on the Internet is for nerds.

Buying anything online is more convenient, that's why e-commerce is a thing. And when it comes to narcotics, buying online is preferable because:

a) its safer: you shop from the safety of your home rather than driving around da hood at 3AM looking to score from Pookie on dat dere corner
b) feedback: service & product reviews help you make a much more informed purchase
c) wider selection: buying from your local dealers limits you to just what they have, buying online provides a veritable smorgasbord of options

>>60601871
>my negro you have any idea how retarded the average normie is?
>you live in some parallel reality where 'all it takes' is installing tor and acquiring crypto in an anonymous way
>how many friends you have
>do you even have a job with colleagues you speak to?
>the average normie is a zombie who will do over 95% of their transactions in legit commerce, the other 5% buying weird shit on facebook marketplace (who could ban any mention of xmr)

Did you miss the part where virtually the entire darknet economy is sustained by these "inept normies?" It all comes down to incentives, not ability.

>some alibaba website where sellers can maintain plausible deniability about seller authorization status.

They're selling legit iPhones on Alibaba? Lemme check.....no. Plenty of fakes though. In any case, clearnet Alibaba is still white market and therefore not permissionless.

Now, a darknet Alibaba....see, that would be permissionless.

>i'm talking about retarded normies which comprise the absolute vast majority of global population

Did you again miss the part where virtually the entire darknet economy is sustained by these "retarded normies?" As seen, normies have shown themselves quite capable of figuring shit out when they're forced to or sufficiently enticed by competitive pricing.

>how we get monero to not be about a bunch of early adopters masturbating each other

Quit obsessing about NGU and grow the fucking economy, give normies a compelling reason to go shopping for grey market cheapies. Nothing worthwhile comes easy, its going to require a lot of hard work, dedication and patience, concepts moonfags know nothing about.

>project the environment for monero to NOT be only a niche currency

Gotta keep it real, my nigga: Monero will never have mainstream appeal, governments hate privacy coins and will do everything they can to limit their real-world adoption.

We can have dominion over the counter-economy but the formal economy is strictly invite-only. Sorry.

>>60601986
>be me
>start discussion about businesses accepting monero so it grows from being a niche currency
>"the future is p2p grey markets"
>sure but most people don't do that so it's still a niche thing
>"no bro the global shadow economy is yuge everyone is in it"
>no they aren't and businesses can't operate there
>"yeah bro gotta keep it real xmr has no mainstream appeal"
that's the main point of my first post? wtf

>>60602187

What part of "white markets are permissioned markets" is so difficult for you to grasp?

A white market Monero economy will forever be vulnerable to State interference and rugpulling, its already happened to the crypto economy in Thailand for example.

A black/grey market Monero economy, on the other hand, is permissionless and therefore invulnerable to this kind of fuckery. Note how the DNM economy continues to thrive despite countless efforts to cripple it, THAT is what anti-fragility actually looks like.

Want to build a white market Monero economy? Great, go ahead! Just remember it can all be legislated away at any moment, you're always going to be at the mercy of a State who already hates you.

>>60600045
wouldn't be too hopeful for people. they still use paypal despite them being notorious for stealing money literally randomly banning accounts and keeping whats there

>>60596940
>can businesses outside the united states even accept monero as payment method
Sure. The hard part is figuring out what to tell the government, assuming you run a legitimate business. Do you tell them
>I sold a meal to this customer for $10. Here's your sales tax.
Or
>I sold a meal to this customer for 0.035 XMR which was immediately sold on an instant swap exchange for $10. Here's 20% short term capital gains tax + your sales tax. Let me know if I need to go to prison or pay additional fines as well
Or
>I sold a meal to this customer for $10 in tether. Here's your sales tax.
?

The point being that we need more cheap, fast ways enabling monero-stablecoin swaps to grow the economy. Businesses already accept tether in several parts of the world, can get it into their bank accounts, and they're not forced to do additional KYC/AML to do it afaik.

>>60597000
>The future is in permissionless P2P grey markets selling legal goods & services at sub-retail prices, basically darknet eBays and Craigslists with a whole lotta smuggling.
Don't forget small-to-mid businesses going back to having 2 sets of books

>>60602972
>wouldn't be too hopeful for people. they still use paypal despite them being notorious for stealing money literally randomly banning accounts and keeping whats there

Shoppers don't decide the payment options, merchants do. Normies are literally forced to buy XMR in order to go shopping on the darknet. Again, its all about incentives, if you want/need something badly enough and there aren't viable alternatives, you're gonna jump thru the necessary hoops to get it.

>>60548839
Got the catbox of that image?

Is there a way/platform to sell precious metals for XMR?

>>60605859
>Is there a way/platform to sell precious metals for XMR?

https://xmrbazaar.com/search-category/metals/

If you're an honest seller you'll get so much business selling bullion for XMR, its in very high demand for cashing out.

>>60606155
Thanks OP

>>60565764
I've put some stuff on sale on xmr bazaar yet no trad larper bimbo wife has been shipped to me. Fucking scammer monerotards.

>>60565843
I mine.
Running a node? Slap a >500GB SSD and you can have your node. Only have a smaller SSD, like 240GB? No problem, run a pruned node (1/3 of blockchain). Bandwidth usage? <200KB/s average.
Mining? Basically if you have a CPU, you can mine. It's beautiful.

To git good: Run p2pool. Run xmrig miner. Connect to your p2pool. So the full stack is monerod (node) + p2pool + xmrig. Forward the port 18080 to be a good node. To go further, put that stuff in idle priority, and you won't even notice it running even though it will use 100% CPU at all times. At least with linux-zen with processes at SCHED_IDLE that's true.

Buying or selling Monero? Get used to making money flow through places instead of direct. Buying LTC then swapping to XMR (from VPN/Tor) and that type of bullshit.

>>60565855
Of course mining uses electricity, but if you already have a PC running most of the time for some other things, it doesn't hurt to also have it Monero mining at low priority too. I in fact profit (by like a cent a day) mining.

>>60571392
Having a separate dedicated device (some old laptop or whatever) that you only use for the wallet and don't install anything else will really up the security. Preferably Linux.

>>60584957
did the seed interact with a potentially unsecure device?

>>60585013
>he doesn't sneak miners in every building.
are you even hacking the planet?

many anons fall into the blanket normie trap. are normies, if you take the whole average population, are brain dead sheep? sure. all of them individually? no. if you think you're special in your degeneracy, you have no idea. there are people who appear as turbonormies from the outside who are bigger freaks than you. regardless, the key is, monero does not need to be used by every single lowly retard to succeed. it needs to be used in the gray economy, if even just partially. just a few percent of the gray economy captured would represent an order magnitude price increase for monero

>>60602346
in my shithole country accepting payment in anything except the national currency is banned. sale of crypto in most cases is only possible through USDT (legally considered as buying forex). despite this, it's one of the most crypto using countries in the world. not for use officially, but even as just a store of value it's significant. also many normies here do indeed shadow economy stuff, and it's not even in the ominous sense. just people and small businesses (and mafia) selling stuff to each other unregistered, not exactly legal but in shitholes, laws are all very relative. people also save gold.

in a rich western country where the order is properly set up, there is of course less incentive to do such things. but if you're dooming about things getting worse in the west, then it inevitably brings that type of stuff, making space for monero.

despite having to convert the monero to use it, it does not dissuade me from storing monero because the value of privacy (liability reduction from tracing to heat) and independence from the usual money systems are valuable by themselves. right now things are a bit of a wild west in shithole crypto. people can get away with not caring about privacy, but this is increasingly changing in monero favor. eventually even the shithole governments will crack down enough that the shadow economy will have to actually care about real crypto privacy. it's coming.

>>60603113
yes exactly about the books. even paying card vs cash. ideally the government needs to think crypto was not involved. that's why many places advertising crypto here officially only do USDT. but USDT is a bridge, that's the point. from there it's easy to go to crypto. even in the naive pure USDT money transfer scenario (very common actually), XMR is valuable as the privacy layer. which should boost it's value even if a small portion of the USDT exchangers started to swap through it, to reduce liability if nothing else. A LOT of the gray economy outside the west relies on USDT transfers like this and it will become a lot more important to hide where these funds are coming from. as i said, even as just a precaution against getting involved with some serious bullshit. right now 99% get away with not bothering. this IS changing.

>>60591332
Except the part where it's not and it was disproven 2 years ago that LN is private at all
https://x.com/BTCLiotta04/status/1639852093728079872

>>60607947
What a tryhard faggot

>>60610813
Yea bro keep pushing away community members good idea

>>60609936
It’s 2025. When does the “heavy marketing” start?

All I see is shitcoins making ATHs and people here trying to guard Monero like it’s some fucking secret society.

>>60610841
I sold my 20btc in 2020 to buy XMR. Worst decision of my life

>>60610841
It's essentially already started with the Huione Guarantee and Xinbi Guarantee takedowns in May. More criminals are being put on to monero as a way to launder their stablecoins
There's a reason why >>60591332 this faggot no one's heard of til about a month ago
started shilling LN/fudding monero so aggressively, before fcmp++ makes all of his bad-faith arguments irrelevant.

>>60611036
I’ve been on the fence for a while about the state of the Monero community but having to watch these shitcoins moon just pushed me over the edge.

I’m done with the anti-moonboyism of this coin. I will fight anyone who isn’t pro-NGU at this point. There’s literally no reason being pro privacy should have to coincide with squandering your wealth opportunities. That’s a retarded, sadistic “I’m a martyr” tendency.

If you believe in privacy, that means supporting everyone who believes in it, including 70 IQ NGU normies. It also means evangelizing the message to literally everyone who will hear it, and destroying anyone who tries to gatekeep it.

A higher market cap for privacy is a GOOD THING.

>>60611390
I'm beginning to think that the anti-moonboyism is a psyop so that less people are incentivized to buy, hold, and eventually use monero, instead of just ironic shitposting.

>>60611390
>having to watch these shitcoins moon just pushed me over the edge.

See, that's your first mistake. Shitcoins don't moon organically, they're systematically wash traded upward by the inner circle to lure in dumb money, there's actually very little exit liquidity available so the vast majority of those SICK (paper) GAINZ can never actually be realized, there simply isn't enough actual buyers there to cash all the delusional baggies out and there never will be. So if you actually take "face-melting" price action in this obviously demented and cartoonishly manipulated market seriously you're a fucking moron that deserves to lose every speculated cent.


>I will fight anyone who isn’t pro-NGU at this point. There’s literally no reason being pro privacy should have to coincide with squandering your wealth opportunities. That’s a retarded, sadistic “I’m a martyr” tendency.

And that's your second mistake: hating moonfags doesn't mean hating NGU. It means putting the Monero economy first and achieving NGU the proper, sustainable way: by growing organic demand for XMR through increasing economic activity.

So if you want NGU, help grow the fucking economy. Yeah, it'll take a fair while and require a lot of hard work, dedication and patience but the upside is you'll be able to sleep VERY comfortably at night knowing the XMR you hold is being propped up by legit economic activity as opposed to blatant wash trading and greater fool dynamics.

>It also means evangelizing the message to literally everyone who will hear it, and destroying anyone who tries to gatekeep it.

Agorists are always evangelizing. Case-in-point: these Generals and the memes therein. You're very welcome to help things along, ideally start selling goods & services for XMR.


>A higher market cap for privacy is a GOOD THING.

Of course, but only if its achieved the proper, mathematically sound way. Roll up your sleeves and get to work.

>>60612007
>I'm beginning to think that the anti-moonboyism is a psyop so that less people are incentivized to buy, hold, and eventually use monero, instead of just ironic shitposting.

lol moonfags don't spend. And those that actually need XMR will buy it regardless. That's the great thing about organic demand - it doesn't depend on le bullish vibes.

>>60612313
>Agorists
Why does this stupid philosophy get shoved into the Monero community? I don't give a fuck about agorism I'm here for Monero.

>>60612576
>Why does this stupid philosophy get shoved into the Monero community? I don't give a fuck about agorism I'm here for Monero.

Monero's circular economy IS agorism, ya dingus lol

>>60612590
No, it isn't. It's just you shoehorning some dumb ideology into Monero because you're one of those Porcfest New Hampshire libertarians who doesn't understand how niche, and therefore off-putting, supposedly organized anarcho-capitalism is.

Every time you say the word "agorism" or "agorist", Monero loses a potential follower. Keep it up.

>>60612323
>lol moonfags don't spend
They weren't moonfags when they were buying WOW gold and coffee. They only became le digital godl hodl moonfags when Bitcoin became slower, more expensive, and more risky than using a credit card. You literally couldn't build a circular economy around Bitcoin because of this. None of these are an issue in monero.
I'm not saying that moonfags aren't cancer, I just question whether there's a real threat of the moonfag menace taking over the community since the conditions for them to grow don't seem to be there

>>60612698
>No, it isn't.

Yeah it is, anything black/grey market = agorism.

>Agorism is a political philosophy and economic strategy advocating for a stateless society achieved through the voluntary exchange of goods and services in the free market, often bypassing or operating outside of state control.

- DNMs = agorism.
- Asian grey markets = agorism
- Farmer's markets = agorism
- Flea markets = agorism
- XmrBazaar = agorism
- selling bootleg Air Jordans out of the boot of your car = agorism


>It's just you shoehorning some dumb ideology

lol as opposed to crypto-anarchy and cypherpunk?

Without black and grey markets Monero has nowhere to organically thrive since white market and therefore governmental tolerance of effective privacy coins IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN, EVER.


>who doesn't understand how niche, and therefore off-putting, supposedly organized anarcho-capitalism is.

lol off-putting to who exactly? Moonfags? Great! Wall Street? Even better! Governments? BASED!

You legit sound like Michael Saylor whining about the crypto-anarchists in Bitcoin lmao


>Every time you say the word "agorism" or "agorist", Monero loses a potential follower. Keep it up.

Follower? Nigga, this ain't no cult. Monero doesn't need "followers", it needs spenders. And it gets spenders by attracting shoppers to Monero-only markets.

>>60612889
>I just question whether there's a real threat of the moonfag menace taking over the community

Literally the guy above you is whining about the agorist culture here that prioritizes the Monero economy over moonfag lambo fantasies. They so obviously don't give a shit about anything else except MUH GAINZ.

>>60613167
Typical trajectory of a person new to Monero:

>okay this seems interesting. XMR seems cool
>wait what is “Agorism”?
>search on Google
>find Wikipedia page
>what is this weird shit?
>that Konkin guy looks like a fat lunatic
>this whole thing just became “loser fake edgy politics fag” coded
>leaves

You literally applaud this. You think pushing people AWAY is good. You’re a retard. You’re making Monero into an anti-meme and guarding it like a secret cult. It’s not. It’s a mechanism for privacy. Give up the weird political beliefs and market the real product.

>>60613192
>agorist culture
That doesn’t exist except for you and like 3 other people shilling it relentlessly. Nobody would even know that word exists without your relentless posting about it. Why are you intentionally confusing people with niche politics when it’s completely unnecessary? Why do people need to research Agorism to use fucking XMR?

Anyone who wants to talk about “Agorism” instead of Monero (XMR), try using the >>>/pol/ board! That’s where political philosophies are discussed :)

>>60613204
>>okay this seems interesting. XMR seems cool
>>wait what is “Agorism”?
>>search on Google
>>find Wikipedia page
>>what is this weird shit?
>>that Konkin guy looks like a fat lunatic
>>this whole thing just became “loser fake edgy politics fag” coded
>>leaves

lol then he didn't really need Monero in the first place, did he?

>>60613215
That doesn’t exist except for you and like 3 other people shilling it relentlessly.

lol the Monero circular economy that's been harped on about since day 1 is textbook agorism, XmrBazaar is textbook agorism, DNMs are textbook agorism.

They've always been agorism, your ignorance of this fact is YOUR problem.


>Why are you intentionally confusing people with niche politics when it’s completely unnecessary?

Confusing who? Moonfags who would only hoard and never spend? OH NOES


>Why do people need to research Agorism to use fucking XMR?

lol whoever claimed that? You think all the normies who are forced to buy XMR in order to go shopping on the darknet give a single fuck about agorism? Or cypherpunk? Or crypto-anarchy?

Spoiler: they don't. They just want to score some gear and Monero is merely something they need to acquire first. They don't even think about XMR or crypto until the next time they want to score.

The lesson here: ideology (or the lack thereof) means nothing to the end user, all they care about is that the tech works as advertised.


>>60613266
>Anyone who wants to talk about “Agorism” instead of Monero (XMR),

lol even if the word itself is never used, any discussion of black/grey markets or circular economies is still a discussion about agorism.

And good luck trying to have a meaningful moon-free discussion about Monero without invoking black/grey markets or circular economies.

>>60613280
>ACKSCKUALLY everything that happens is all about MY pet political ideology
No it isn’t. Nobody cares about Agorism. Nobody wants to learn about it. People will make their own decisions without anything to do with your little autistic belief system. You can tell >>>/pol/ all about the things that are or aren’t Agorist. This is a discussion about MONERO, and the crypto of the chain. Go create the “Agorism General /ag/“ thread on pol and watch how nobody fucking replies. Then you’ll get a good read about how many people care about your stupid bullshit without shoehorning assumptions that people care by applying Agorism to everything.

>>60613280
>Confusing who?
It’s confusing to people who start believing that acquiring XMR is somehow in itself a political decision. Especially a political decision to further an ideology they literally never fucking heard of (because nobody cares about Agorism).

I had the exact same problem with Maverick associating Monero with nazi stuff. Why the fuck do you people need to conflate your dumb politics with this coin? It’s a fucking PRIVACY MECHANISM. It is inherently politically neutral.

Stop associating your stupid crap with a coin that is so fucking marketable on its own you’d have to be a retard to fuck it up

>>60613305
>Nobody cares about Agorism

The Monero community cares about DNMs, grey markets and the circular economy. Which are agorism.

>This is a discussion about MONERO, and the crypto of the chain.

lol and black/grey markets are where Monero is primarly being spent. So, again: agorism.

>Go create the “Agorism General /ag/“ thread on pol and watch how nobody fucking replies.

lol we've already been here before, you're very welcome to create an XMR Moonfag General and shill XMR to your heart's content.

>Then you’ll get a good read about how many people care about your stupid bullshit without shoehorning assumptions that people care by applying Agorism to everything.

So you're saying we must stop ALL discussion about DNMs, grey markets, XMRBazaar, circular economies? :)

>>60613330
>It’s confusing to people who start believing that acquiring XMR is somehow in itself a political decision.

XMR is a utility, not a tech stock, politics are irrelevant. If somebody actually need such utility, they'll acquire it. Same goes for PGP or Tor or I2P. It really is that simple.

>Stop associating your stupid crap with a coin that is so fucking marketable on its own you’d have to be a retard to fuck it up

kek why does an open source privacy utility need to be "marketable?" Sounds more like you're worried about the potential of anarchistic/agorist sentiments to scare away the investors that would pump your heavy bags lol, this is literally Michael Saylor territory.

>>60613372
See
>>60613305
>ACKSCKUALLY everything that happens is all about MY pet political ideology
You literally just won’t get it. No matter what happens you’ll find some way to shill your stupid ideology into everything. Can you actually just say why? Why do you need to keep inserting niche politics? What do you get out of it? Is your room full of pictures of that fat Agorism guy? Was he your dad or something?

For the record I am in favor of number go up. There’s no downside to increasing the defense against financial attacks. NGU means the world is becoming pro-privacy, which is great. Your anti-moonboyism is just a weird quasi religious martyrdom schtick. I don’t understand why you think it’s more “pure” to suffer. Creepy slave vibe.

>Konkin was a lifelong fan of C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien[1] and an avid fanzine contributor. He was a known figure among science fiction/fantasy fans for his writing on Alarums and Excursions and the like.[3]:124 In a 1976 issue of Alarums and Excursions, Konkin published a drawing depicting Dungeons & Dragons writers Gary Gygax, Len Lakofka and Tim Kask being hanged by a group of women. This came in the wake of community backlash after Lakofka had suggested new rules for women that would have rated their "beauty" and made them weaker in combat against male characters.[4]
>Konkin himself attempted to propose a new character archetype, the damsel, which he depicted as a chaste character in search of love, in the vein of a Disney Princess.
I’m so happy to associate this fat loser with Monero!!!!!!!!!

>>60612576
It's a "Plymouth Rock landed on us" situation. Agorists were all about Bitcoin til they realized their voluntary exchanges were involuntarily being reported to the IRS and chainalysis, so a lot of them migrated to monero.

>>60613204
>>60613215
Agorism isn't even mentioned on the monero subreddit, and agoradesk doesn't exist anymore. You're hyping up a problem that doesn't exist.

>>60613330
Monero is money and money is political in today's world.

>>60613192
Imo the 'agorism bad' fags above aren't moonfags; they're d&c shills. They don't care about price action, they just want you to stop talking about actually using the currency to buy things.

Next on Agorism General, what do you guys think of the new STAR WARS product (TM)
> Konkin's proposal was criticized for upholding gender stereotypes, in which chastity promoted the character to a "consort" while promiscuity demoted them to the role of "courtesan". He was also criticized for victim blaming in scenarios where the damsel is sexually assaulted, as he implied that suicide was a woman's only moral response.[3]:124–125 Writer Aaron Trammell described Konkin's proposal as an objectification of women because it defined them by their sexuality.[3]:125–126 Other D&D fans wrote to Konkin in objection to his character proposal, with many describing it as the work of a "male chauvinist pig" while one re-characterized it as satire.[3]:128–129 Trammell characterized the letters as an act of restorative justice, where the writers attempted to privately explain to Konkin the problems they had with the character, rather than publicly denouncing him.[3]:129

>>60613460
No, I clearly want only one thing: Stop associating Monero with some unknown political ideology made by an obese D&D player masturbating to Disney Princesses in his basement.

Is that so much to fucking ask?

>>60613400
>You literally just won’t get it. No matter what happens you’ll find some way to shill your stupid ideology into everything. Can you actually just say why? Why do you need to keep inserting niche politics? What do you get out of it? Is your room full of pictures of that fat Agorism guy? Was he your dad or something?

What fucking politics? Have I *ever* mentioned Konkin or Rothbard or *anything* about taking down the government for the greater glory of a future libertarian utopia? No, I only ever use the word "agorism" in its most basic sense, as shorthand for counter-economic activity: black markets (DNMs), grey markets (XMRBazaar) and the Monero circular economy in general.

We could never use the word again and literally nothing would change, we'd still be discussing DNMs, grey markets and the Monero circular economy as usual.


>For the record I am in favor of number go up. There’s no downside to increasing the defense against financial attacks. NGU means the world is becoming pro-privacy, which is great.

Yeah, so am I. I'm just in favor of doing achieving NGU the right way with sustained economic activity rather than with ephemeral speculative mania that is doomed to implode.


> Your anti-moonboyism is just a weird quasi religious martyrdom schtick. I don’t understand why you think it’s more “pure” to suffer. Creepy slave vibe.

I'm anti-moonfag because moonfags ruined Bitcoin, its spending culture and thus its economy. Don't want the same thing to happen to Monero.

>>60613434
>>60613462

You're literally the first person to ever mention Konkin here lol

>>60613487
>We could never use the word again
Good! Try that :)

>>60613475
>Is that so much to fucking ask?
Yes, actually. Monero attracts all people from all sides of the political spectrum. No one gives a single fuck about your purity spiraling episode in this thread

>>60613564
Why is there a (broken) link about Agorism in the copypasta in the beginning of the thread then
>>60548843
> https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism/
Why is it below a section called “what this is ultimately all about”? Does that sound like an endorsement to you? It does to me. Doesn’t seem like “all sides of the political spectrum” to me. Smells like a Dungeons and Dragons game.

>>60611365
>started shilling LN/fudding monero so aggressively
He has to be a monero agent.

>>60613584
>Why is there a (broken) link about Agorism in the copypasta in the beginning of the thread then

Thanks for the heads up, here's the archived page: https://archive.is/YBnPG

>Introducing agorism
Agorism means voluntary free markets outside of the state's control, censorship and surveillance – bypassing the state's unethical monopoly on money (fiat), identity (government ID) and markets (regulations). Agorism provides economic freedom right now and has worked for decades, including in authoritarian regimes, where free access to products, money and information is needed the most. No need to ask for permission or wait for a revolution.

Many people rely on agorist markets to access daily life necessities, such as 1 billion people worldwide who can't get government ID, but also people who are facing financial discrimination, can't access products via the white market, or just want to save time and money.

Agorist markets are also known as: Gray markets; informal, circular, parallel or counter-economies; Second Realms; underground markets.

Agorism's open markets allow everyone to participate without barriers – no permits, red tape or permission required. Supply and demand, skills and effort, are more important than the state's arbitrary and harmful restrictions. Cash, gold and cryptocurrencies offer accessible payment methods for agorist services. Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Monero make it possible to send and receive money worldwide in a matter of minutes, no ID or bank account required.

Agorism doesn't require mass adoption or integration with the statist white market in order to succeed. If you know one agorist employer, one agorist landlord and one agorist doctor, it matters less how the mainstream operates. This means a parallel economy can operate for those who need it, without the need for mainstream adoption or a "revolution".
-----

See? Its really just about partaking in unregulated free markets, the Konkin stuff is only for pedantic zealots

>>60613584
>Why is there a (broken) link about Agorism in the copypasta in the beginning of the thread then
>>>60548843 #
>> https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism/
>Why is it below a section called “what this is ultimately all about”? Does that sound like an endorsement to you? It does to me. Doesn’t seem like “all sides of the political spectrum” to me. Smells like a Dungeons and Dragons game.

Sharing a common interest =! Endorsement.
Here's a thought: How come you didn't how come you didn't come in here accusing monerochads of endorsing drug dealers and pedophiles even though there's a shit ton of DNM vendors in the copypasta? How come you didn't tell us to fuck off to dread if we wanted to talk about drugs all day?
Is it maybe because you understand that 2 groups of people having a common interest in private peer-to-peer transactions doesn't necessarily mean they have anything to do with each other and you don't need this shit explained to you like a 5 year old?

Seriously dude, take a step back. You've been buck broken by monerom@vr!ck's naziposting.

>>60613717
Anybody that has a problem with this is either a fed or a statist cuck. Monero and agorism obviously go together like peanut butter and jelly.

>>60612313
>there's actually very little exit liquidity available so the vast majority of those SICK (paper) GAINZ can never actually be realized
Is there a way to approximately know the actual liquidity for say BTC?

>>60613763
>How come you didn't how come you didn't come in here accusing monerochads of endorsing drug dealers and pedophiles even though there's a shit ton of DNM vendors
Because vendors are a utility. You can actually do things with vendors, and if they’re in the copypasta it’s because they accept XMR. You can’t do anything with a link about agorism except masturbate to ideas about it.

>sharing common interest
Who is sharing it?? As I’ve said many times, nobody cares about agorism. That’s why, apparently, I was the first person to post about the fat guy. This is the entire basis of the “shoehorning” claim. Even though nobody cares about agorism, YOU CLAIM THEY DO.

>maverick
Frankly, Maverick demonstrated that Monero has a lot more proponents of nazism than agorism. Why don’t you put something about nazis in the copypasta? Why isn’t a fourth reich “what this is all ultimately about”? Is it…..because you disagree with that? Huh funny, it’s almost like you can’t claim any one political philosophy represents Monero. Yet statistically speaking a nazi post would literally be more representative than anything about the fat loser who likes Disney dolls.

You can claim “everything people do in Monero is [my ideology]” all you want but you’re still clearly pushing it onto people. Stop trying to make agorism happen. It isn’t going to happen.

>If you want to be fair/objective (“Monero is politically neutral it’s for everyone!), you can either:
a) add a nazi post to the copypasta, or
b) remove agorism

>if you want to be subjective (“this is MY thread go make your own!”)
Then stop calling this “Monero general” because given the political alignment of the thread it’s more like “Monero-Agorism general” and could belong on >>>/pol/

>>60614932
Why do you think agorism and nazism are mutually exclusive? That's not obvious to me. To me agorism is about parallel shadow economies and combines neatly with other ideologies.

>>60615117
Lol even nazism is agorism now! You people will shove it into anything. People still don’t care btw

>>60615166
Why shouldn't there be nazi agorists, commie agorists, ancap agorists, anarchist agorists, etc.

>>60615175
There are no agorists at all because it’s a made up word by a neckbeard and nobody cares about it.

Every time someone posts about agorism I’m going to remind you nobody cares. It’s just a stupid invented word in your libertarian community that isn’t going anywhere.

I’m fucking tired of seeing it in MONERO topics. Has absolutely nothing to do with Monero. Go to the agorism thread instead. There’s nobody there.

join hyperborian agora

I like to buy drugs with monero

>>60615242
based agorist nazi chad

>>60615230
>agora
>>60615259
>agorist
what is this weird shit and what does it have to do with monero? (besides nothing)

>>60614881
>Even though nobody cares about agorism
Correct, and this cuts both ways

>YOU CLAIM THEY DO
Incorrect. They just do it without knowing what it is. If people start calling your mom an agorist for selling homemade cookies on Facebook marketplace, she isn't going to look up what it is, find out who Konkin is and decide she doesn't want to make money anymore.
Your claim that calling the act of selling beef talow on xmrbazaar "agorism" prevents people from buying the coin is nonsense. Nobody cares if you call it "sticking it to the man" or "free market capitalism" or "starting a side hustle" or whatever you think is more politically neutral; they're going to do it anyway if they see an opportunity to make money.

>>60614881
>Even though nobody cares about agorism
Correct, and this cuts both ways

>YOU CLAIM THEY DO
Incorrect. They just do it without knowing what it is. If people start calling your mom an agorist for selling homemade cookies on Facebook marketplace, she isn't going to look up what it is, find out who Konkin is and decide she doesn't want to make money anymore. She's not that much of an autist.
Your claim that calling the act of selling beef talow on xmrbazaar "agorism" prevents people from buying the coin is nonsense. Nobody cares if you call it "sticking it to the man" or "free market capitalism" or "starting a side hustle" or whatever you think is more politically neutral; they're going to do it anyway if they see an opportunity to make money.

>>60548824 (OP)
all of my negros use monero

>>60614881
>>60614932
>>60615166
>>60615182
>>60615190

wtf goddamn nigger, relax! Agorism isn't so much a philosophy or ideology as it is a methodology, something you do as opposed to something you believe in. Most people engaging in agorism have no idea they're engaging in agorism, they'll call it hustling, bootlegging, smuggling, undeclared employment, off-the-books value exchange, underground commerce, etc but we can conveniently summarize all of that activity and more with a single umbrella term: "agorism".

And here you are losing your fucking mind over what is just a simpler way to positively reference or invoke black/grey markets and circular economies. Are you just severely autistic or do you actually have a genuine problem with black/grey markets and circular economies?

>>60615324
>what is this weird shit and what does it have to do with monero? (besides nothing)
Agorism requires operational privacy to thrive, Monero requires agorism to economically thrive. It's a perfect match made in heaven.

Really makes you think.

>>60616171
I have a problem with people making Monero more difficult to understand/adopt than it needs to be.

When you combine Monero with things like “agorism” (which nobody cares about or has heard of before) people are naturally going to think becoming a member of the Monero community also entails some weird political philosophical alignment they’re not ready for.

I want people to ONLY care about
>XMR

Agorism fags seem to want people to care about
>XMR + agorism

My entire sperg out is simply to say that this is an additional and completely unnecessary ask from people. This is a Monero board, the discussion is about XMR, and the “pitch” to people is about XMR. It has absolutely fucking nothing to do with agorism regardless of how eager you seem to be to want to apply it to everything under the sun.

>>60616459

Crypto has been *inextricably* associated with cypherpunk, crypto-anarchy and libertarianism since day fucking 1 without any of that negatively impacting awareness and adoption. Invoking one more kindred association is hardly going to upend that.

Honestly, you sound more and more like a Saylorite moonfag who's concerned about such "edgy" ideas scaring away the normie and institutional bag-pumpers.

>>60616580
You don’t even know what sort of “awareness and adoption” is possible. You just assume what has already happened is the best case scenario.

Agorism is a stupid word and using it puts people off. If anyone researched it they find a fat neckbeard who jerks off to Disney princesses. The fact that this doesn’t disgust you means you’re just a weird creepy anti-social person, which is standard for the libertarian community. You care more about purity spiraling than promoting digital privacy in a harrowing time in history. I don’t understand you, but I’ll still be here to call you an idiot.

>>60616665
>You don’t even know what sort of “awareness and adoption” is possible. You just assume what has already happened is the best case scenario.

I'd really love to hear what kind of permissionless adoption beyond P2P black/grey markets is yet possible. Please do enlighten us.

>Agorism is a stupid word and using it puts people off.

>I was in a high stakes situation
>I needed to make an anonymous payment
>I was told to look at Monero
>Took a look, it seemed legit
>But then I noticed they kept talking about something called "agorism"
>I googled it and it and it put me right off
>So I decided to take my chances with a bank wire instead

Apparently this ^ keeps happening!

Clearly anybody put off by a word never actually needed Monero in the first place. You obviously just want to dumb Monero culture down enough to make it palatable to people that don't actually need it and would never spend it i.e. speculators, which makes you a moonfag and your motives suspect.


>promoting digital privacy in a harrowing time in history

How do you promote digital privacy without talking about buying & selling in digital free markets?

>>60614350
>Is there a way to approximately know the actual liquidity for say BTC?

Not without a full accounting of all the market manipulation that has taken place over the past 12 or so years. Especially with regards to Tether since the suspicion is that BTC is pumped with unbacked USDT, which would of course mean there is actually far, far less actual demand for BTC than there appears to be.

But we'll find out for sure once enough Bitbaggies try to cash out their SICK GANIZ at the same time, probably when the next recession hits.

>>60616878
Buying and holding Monero is a completely legitimate action. People can easily desire to have their wealth kept in a private bank account. You don’t need to be in a “high stakes situation” to use or acquire XMR. You don’t “need” Monero to use Monero.

This weird purity spiraling agorist fake edgy cringe crap and preoccupation with SOME use cases of Monero (DNMs etc) DOES put people off and prevents some people from ever actually looking into the project.

>>60616989
>Buying and holding Monero is a completely legitimate action. People can easily desire to have their wealth kept in a private bank account. You don’t need to be in a “high stakes situation” to use or acquire XMR. You don’t “need” Monero to use Monero.

Translation: I care more about people buying and holding XMR than I care about people earning and spending XMR. Wen moon?


>preoccupation with SOME use cases of Monero (DNMs etc)

Oh, you mean a preoccupation with the only use case that ensures Monero's value is being propped up by regular, dependable economic activity rather than by the delusional lambo fantasies of fickle bagholders?


>prevents some people from ever actually looking into the project.

Horseshit. Those that actually need PGP will use it regardless. Those that actually need Tor/I2P use it regardless. And those that actually need XMR will use it regardless.

Which privacy coins are unironically best as a moonboy NGU investment?

>wow, almost certain to moderately moon in the short term as it tends to do from time to time
>zano, no big profit short term, project becomes obsolete in long term when the superior project darkfi drops
>tari, fluffypony's coin, so possible moonshot short term? long term obsolete because of same reason as above? see it purely as an investment into Spagni stocks
>zeph, haven't followed it for a while. it scammed out or got exploited? random profit short term is possible, long term is absolutely dead, glad I dumped it at ~$20
>zcash, value will drop more than 41% after FCMP and darkfi release
>firo, dash, pirate, etc. does not seem to have either a long term or short term prospect for NGU, they feel like currencies with no momentum, reason for existence unclear

>>60617991
Translation: Monero is a super sekret thing that only ME and MY friends are allowed to use. Nobody is allowed to buy it unless they are pure at heart and only want it for immediate exchange utility. Any other reason for acquiring the coin is STUPID!!!!!111!! Privacy is INEXORABLY LINKED to losing ground on the BTC/XMR chart!

If “when moon” is a silly idea, then why does buying and holding bother you so much? The only downside to NGU is supposedly the speculative bubble action. If Monero is ONLY to be used for its transactional utility, why would it matter if it’s $100 or $10000? The same privacy features exist at both prices. And in the long run, it’s obviously that the additional eye balls on the project from a speculative run would be a net positive for the community. More long term USERS and MARKETS even if it comes with a (temporary) bubble pop.

You are GATEKEEPING this project like a fucking faggot LOSER. Pretending like you have to “suffer” for the coin for latent religious instincts. And I am tired of this retarded nonsense in this community.

Geunuine question: how do we know that Monero is actually private and not backdoored?
As a layman, I can't audit the code myself and therefore have to trust others to verify it's robustness. I love this coin but have always had this doubt in the back of head.

>>60620032
The proof is in the pudding as Monero completely dominates darknet markets, and all the code is open source.

>>60620032
This wouldn't need to be done
>>60616423
>https://www.dlnews.com/articles/people-culture/monero-hacker-intelbroker-caught-accepting-btc-from-fbi/

>But for all his technical sophistication, West made a single, critical mistake: he agreed to a Bitcoin payment.

>>60620061
I'd be cautious of attributing the dominance of Monero as proof it's truly safe. How many people are capable of verifying the code and what percentage have actually done so? In any cases it's essentially a religious trust in the tech being legit for the majority of users.

>>60620094
What if those stories are simply planted in the media to encourage people to believe Monero is safe and adopt it?

>>60619136
>Monero is a super sekret thing that only ME and MY friends are allowed to use. Nobody is allowed to buy it unless they are pure at heart and only want it for immediate exchange utility. Any other reason for acquiring the coin is STUPID!!!!!111!!

lol nobody can stop you hoarding XMR, you're free to hoard as much XMR as you like. No intention of ever spending it? Great!

But where you will get pushback is when you come here and start whining about the ideologically-driven agenda that prioritizes radical financial freedom and the health of the Monero economy over your blatant get-rich-quick agenda.


>losing ground on the BTC/XMR chart!

lolwtf, you *still* take BTC's price action seriously?!!!!


>why does buying and holding bother you so much?

Because if everybody starts doing that, the economy dies. And if the economy dies, the only thing left propping the price up is speculative mania. Which cannot last forever.


>The only downside to NGU is supposedly the speculative bubble action.

NGU isn't harmful if it happens organically and gradually, with growing economic activity.


>a speculative run would be a net positive for the community

Manic speculation results in endless PnD cycles and that kind of volatility is *really* bad for business. Drop by Dread next time there's a dump and see for yourself, vendors start cancelling orders en masse.


>even if it comes with a (temporary) bubble pop

Just impair the XMR economy for a while so I can cash out, bro!


>You are GATEKEEPING this project

wow, I had all this power and never knew it lol. Look, lil nigga, you're free to start your own XMR Moonfag General and let loose. Or you can be like Mavrick and spend half your day moonfagging to cryptotards on Twitter.

The rest of us will be here reinforcing the sound economic foundation upon which Monero can achieve, real, sustainable, dependable and *long-term* NGU.

Because it is possible to have it both ways, you're just too lazy to work for your gains

>>60620032
>As a layman, I can't audit the code myself and therefore have to trust others to verify it's robustness.

This is true of literally every bit of software ever. Maybe go back to using a typewriter, abacus and slide-rule.

>>60620391
Mmm, but I don't have to store my buying power in a typewriter.

>>60620299
Agorism is still a stupid word btw

>>60616989
>This weird purity spiraling
Is what you've been doing for 2 days.
You keep claiming that calling the monero circular economy 'agorism' puts people off. Can you point to any cases of people drawing lines between Konkin and monero? How about people being put off by agorists? Cases where people have actually said they won't buy the coin because agorists are weird?

>>60620827
>prove to me that some guy thought “nah fuck this”
Gonna be kinda hard to do that buddy. It’s called “common sense” or “giving a shit what normal people think” or “not being an anti-social weirdo”. These are all difficult obstacles for the people of Porcfest.

>>60620909
>Gonna be kinda hard to do that buddy. It’s called “common sense” or “giving a shit what normal people think”
It's called speculating on what you think will appeal to normies. There's nothing wrong with attracting normies, but unless you have something concrete beyond "well I don't like it therefore there must be other people who don't like it" then you're wasting everyone's time, which I'm fairly certain was your goal here.
If you actually cared about NGU then you'd have spent 30+ posts talking about how to get some of that stablecoin liquidity flowing towards XMR (which has been proven to pump price) instead of trying to ostracize one of the few groups of non-criminals that use the coin (which hasn't been proven to have any effect on price).

It's 2025 and monero is still a pain in the ass to buy
maybe that's why the price is low and go up big, but I am tired

>>60620404
>Mmm, but I don't have to store my buying power in a typewriter.

How about you teach yourself to audit code and then you can be superduper certain everything is above board!

>>60620768
>Agorism is still a stupid word btw

Beats having to type out "black/grey markets/circular economy/fuck the IRS" every time.

>>60620909
>It’s called “common sense” or “giving a shit what normal people think”

Anybody that would be legit turned off by agorist vibes in the crypto space would also be turned off by the cypherpunk, crypto-anarchist and libertarian vibes in the crypto space.

And we call such compliance cucks "Michael Saylor".

>>60621430
>It's 2025 and monero is still a pain in the ass to buy

And why would governments strive to make acquiring XMR so much more difficult?

>>60621507
>>60621524
>>60621547
>>60621579
Monero may have literally the worst community in all of crypto, a lot of it coming from this guy alone (you).

Yet despite the utter stupidity and incompetence of the porcfest crowd, XMR is still the best form of money ever invented. It will moon to infinity in the near future, to the loud boos and jeers of its “proponents”.

>>60621430
>Download cake wallet
>Buy XMR with your credit card on cake wallet
>Done

Or
>Buy PYUSD on PayPal
>Swap on trocador for $1.50 in fees
>Done

Or
>Have cash app
>Swap bitcoinLN for XMR on fixedfloat
>Done
Idk how it can be made any easier

>>60621905
paypal will just ban you and im pretty sure that option has extremely limited availability and is well hidden

>>60621867
>Monero may have literally the worst community in all of crypto

The absolute worst!


>XMR is still the best form of money ever invented.

Agreed.


> It will moon to infinity in the near future,

Probably not to infinity but yeah, XMR should do very well if the economy keeps expanding globally and attracting evermore shoppers. Just imagine all that dependable exit liquidity......

Why cant XMR break its ATH

>>60621507
booba

Worth getting a Trezor model T for prime day?

why is it pumping with the market? i don't like this, i want my eternal crabcoin back.

>>60624541
why not? even doge is

>>60624580
doge isn't delisted from every relevant normie exchange

>>60624676
yeah but its a memecoin with no serious use case

>>60606155
Anyone in the business of selling metals for XMR without KYC is committing 2 felonies. Let's just be honest

>>60548824 (OP)
>has anyone used Haveno-retro / retroswap ?

>>60624814
this is the world white people fight for...

>>60620032
For most things of high complexity, like web browsers and SSH daemons, you hope that time, plus the fact that there's a lot of research going into it, makes it secure enough.

But there's a class of security product where some small section of the users are criminals. Do the criminals get caught as a result of the user of this product? A classic example of Veracrypt (and its predecessor Truecrypt). A more recent one is Monero. Even though there's plenty of motivation to break these technologies, there's no publicly disclosed breaks on them- and therefore, quite possibly no significant enough flaws to be worried about.

But obviously no one can be absolutely certain.

>>60623840
because i consistently sell any time it rises too fast and then buy when it falls too fast. as long as the multiyear floor is rising, i'm happy. AHT happen 1% of the time. floor happens 99% of the time.

>>60624541
because i'm not rich enough to sell enough when it goes up. you need to help me. sell now!

>>60548914
>Is he glowie adjacent?
not really relevant since he is himself irrelevant
the funny thing is that: he could have been
but chose to be a baggage salesman

>>60553731
?????????????????

>>60566858
this "person" has never used bitcoin in his life

>>60601704
>unfortunately
nah
fortunately, state channels are where they belong
in the trash can alongside "mass adoption" fags

>>60624541
because of btc/xmr

>missed out on buying at 310 because I thought it'd dip below 300 again
;_;

>>60624814
>Anyone in the business of selling metals for XMR without KYC is committing 2 felonies. Let's just be honest

Unregulated commerce is what agorism is all about.

>>60548844
>use some dude's literal who wallet software on my phone
?

>>60627824

Yes, ANONERO is a devious scam to steal funds from your air-gapped wallet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/18saf8w/ultimate_monero_coldstorage_guide_feather_x/

>>60627943
>it's okay guys the same guy that made the software tells me it's okay.

>>60628088
>>it's okay guys the same guy that made the software tells me it's okay.

The devs are anons that limit their interactions to Tor. The code itself is open-source, feel free to point out the malicious bits.

>>60609936
based

NEW THREAD: >>60628797
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>NEW THREAD: >>60628797