Basically I'm Bulgarian.
And I doubt I'll find bulgarians here, but that's besides the point.So Bulgaria is looking like it will be adopting the euro as a currency and drop the lev(our current currency, no pun intended) as of jan 1 2026. I am personally against this because it's centralization and leads to communism not only that but we also lose our sovereignty of our money. Anyway there are other reasons why I'm against this but I won't list them.
The point of this post is to get answer how will the euro the benefit Bulgaria because our politicians say it will(press x for doubt) and the small number of people who support the euro(which is like less than 30%) also say it, but the problem is that they don't explain how and whenever questioned about it they accuse say anyone against it is a russophile(which i'm not).
So I can't get a proper response from my fellow citizens who support it(which again is less than 30%) or my politicians I would like to ask how would the euro benefit Bulgaria? I just want an explanation of how it would benefit(which I doubt) Bulgaria and it's citizens

>>60569185 (OP)
The euro is the EU's internal weapon. If you try to rebel, they will use it against you. Having the euro means you are not sovereign. Whoever controls the currency controls the state. There's nothing good in there. French here.

all EU countries without euro had bigger inflation than those with €. If you have incompetent government, which i believe you do, it's reassuring to have common currency

>>60569206
Just follow the wages in this case. You give up the freedom to devalue if you have the euro. You have to replace that with continuous tax increases. Moreover, the euro is a strong currency that suits exporting countries like Northern European countries well. This is not the case for most other countries. You will always end up screwed with them.

>>60569196
Thanks my french friend I also say the same thing and the small number of people who support the euro call me a russophile.... so do the politicians
They also even said that Russia is is manipulating the lev somehow when I ask how I don't get an answer just a barrage of insults.... Is it really so hard to a reasonable discussion about this?

>>60569206
That seems like a pretty weak argument. And if anything it would stop corruption then why are the CORRUPTED politicans FOR the EURO.
Like if you're corrupt you wouldn't wanna go towards less corruption or something that decreases corruption. How does that make sense?

>>60569223
Yes, it's the EU's totalitarian rhetoric, which consists of treating everyone who disagrees with them as pro-Putin, Nazi, etc. Giving them control is very bad, look at what they did in Greece... Moreover, at the moment they are in a deadly delirium of control with the digital euro. They must surely be telling you: "we will have more tourism because changing money is boring" and things like that.

>>60569262
hungary can't get their inflation below 4% while ECB has been cutting rates for the past year

>>60569278
Are you talking about the country that is constantly under pressure from the EU ? The country that resists it the most ? I wonder why they have inflation... Brussels is certainly innocent!

>>60569262
>hey must surely be telling you: "we will have more tourism because changing money is boring" and things like that.
Yep they have said that a million times....
And even that is a pretty weak argument.
I just want an honest discussion can't get it with the people that support the euro(which I will always remind it's less than 30%) Hell they don't want a referendum. They said the Bulgarians are too retarded to make the proper choice....
Not making this up

You will adopt zee Euro and you will be happy

>>60569299
This is typically their method: lies, infantilization of the population (they have been telling us to drink water for 3 weeks because it is hot here...) and then they will massively import immigrants. In fact, they absolutely want Bulgaria because the standard of living has progressed too much in Poland and Germany is looking for new space to establish what remains of its industry. Having the euro is more practical for them in addition to being able to control the population and the State. You will be a colony of German companies and also French and Italian. Do not believe that the people of France, Germany, and Italy benefit from it... It is these lobbies that corrupt your politicians in reality. Good luck because they are very perverse. Once you have adopted the euro you will notice that prices are multiplied like hell and that strangely wages stop rising except for the so-called elites. I am in solidarity because the EU is a moralizing hell of corruption and Europeans must get rid of it.

>>60569325
One of the reasons I always say Germany needed to be obliterated after WW2.
Anyway how can the small number of people who support this NOT see it?
How can they not understand that monetary sovereignty is a good thing and losing that will be a bad thing. And how can they be against our corrupt politicans when they also support the adoption of the euro. Like this doesn't make any sense. They even don't think about the arguments I've raised. They don't even make me think but it's because I get a barrage of insults that don't have anything logical about why Bulgaria should get the euro

>>60569185 (OP)
>today I learned Bulgaria has its own currency

>>60569358
In addition, the EU is practically dying in reality. Currently in France we are talking about bringing in the IMF to help us manage our public spending which has become uncontrollable, Germany is only a shadow of its former self economically and they are practically a Turkish people now. England continues to adopt EU legislation like a zombie and it is not going well either. The worst thing is that they continue as if nothing is happening while everything is constantly proving them wrong, that the people are against it, and that they are ridiculous internationally. But no, it does not matter "let's continue to enslave people, there is surely still money hidden somewhere that I have not stolen from a people!". It is absolutely crazy. It is the USSR in the last 2 years.

Friendly reminder average lev enjoyer has an IQ below 70

Go on Instagram and you'll see everyone making fun of them

>мa зaплaтaтa щи cтaнe oт 1200 нa 500 eвpo
>muh digital vaxx
>random gypsy noises

The only people against the euro are gypsies and retards and we all make fun of them collectively

>>60569185 (OP)
You will probably get a shit conversion rate to euro too so you better just swap now or all in BTC. Happend to the dutch the old gulden to euro exchange was shit

>>60569389
man I wish I could post screenshots of me equating the EU to the ussr(which we escaped and traded for the EU) and then get laughed at for making such comparison because it's "stupid".

Reason I don't wanna post the screenshots is due to privacy concerns(yes I know I can blur names and pictures but still)

>>60569394
That's it, adopt the euro, you'll see how wonderful your life will become...

>>60569407
Romanian here, you are a fucking retard and a bulgarian dog

you absolute retard we are dying from inflation and prices increases, euro is much better as a currency

it's not that deep and nothing is perfect

go live in belarus or in serbia if you think the EU is so bad

Romania doubled its gdp and we get highways and non-refundable money from rich western europe
you bulgarian niggers are just like us only you're also full of retards like yourself crying about sovereignty

sovereignty means you will get raped in the ass by turkey or russia, you absolute retard, you will be beaten literally in the streets like in georgia, enjoy escaping EU communism I guess

fuck you

>>60569407
An example of the benefits of the euro: we had retirement at 60. Today they have raised it several times to 64 and now it is 66. Why? Because it is a European directive (the famous recommendations) to increase it to 70. So every two years we are entitled to a psychodrama on retirement until the damned 70 years. If we do not do it, we expose ourselves to sanctions even if we are net contributors. Also know that EU standards will impose themselves on your local standards and that you will permanently be in an unproductive normative hell. I have thousands of examples like that. And it is impossible to say no otherwise they will use the euro to attack the banks.

>>60569389
two more years

>>60569434
that's literally got nothing to do with the currency you absolute fucking retard, that is the population age making it unsustainable, like in Romania we have 16 million beneficiaries of healthcare but only like 6 million contributors

we dont have euro and it has nothing to do with the euro, the pensioners outnumber the active population and it's simple maths

you absolute fucking braindead nigger to eastern europe the EU is literally the best thing to ever happen to us, shut the fuck up about crying how your country went downhill for us in bulgaria and romania the past 30 years literally made our shitholes change colours and gave us infrastructure and a higher standard of living

>>60569454
the french did it to themselves with their generous retirement plans (retiring too early) and import of niggers

>>60569394
Бpaтчe aкo cи зa eвpoтo oбяcни ми кaк щe пoмoгнe нa Бългapия?
>Aкo eвpoтo щe нaмaли кopyпциятa тoгaвa зaщo хopa кaтo Бopиcoв,Дoгaн и Пeeвcки ca зa eвpoтo
>Гyбим cи cyвepeнитeтa нaд вaлyтaтa ни
>Eвpoтo e цeнтpaлизaция кoятo вoди дo кoмyнизъм и мнoгo хopa ca пoкaзвaли EC e кaтo бившoтo CCCP.
>Aкo eвpoтo фaлиpa ниe c нaшият вaлyтeн бopд мoжeм дa въpжeм лeвa към дpyгa вaлyтa кaтo Бpитaнcкият Пyндa или Aмepикaнcкият Дoлap или пък към cкъпoцeнни мeтaли кaтo злaтo.
>Лeвът e чacт oт нaшaтa иcтopия
Moгa дa пpoдължa , aмa нe иcкaм, зaщoтo иcкaм дa знaм кaк eвpoтo e пo-дoбpo и щe ни пoмoгнe зaщoтo aз нe виждaм дoбpo и oчeвиднo чe нямa нищo дoбpo щoм caмo знaeтe кaк дa oбиждaтe и дa нapичaтe хopaтa pycoфили.

>>60569427
The lei and Lev are totally different but we have a currency board in which we can tie the lev to any other currency or precious metal
Not only that monetary sovereignty is very important if you don't have that then your country is basically conquered.

>go live in belarus or in serbia if you think the EU is so bad
No thanks
Also Viktor Orban(a man who has been persecuted by communists) has also said that the EU is communist and like the USSR here's a vid of him saying it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXiE_GxTvio
and a pic of him getting jailed by commies

>>60569454
Of course it has everything to do with the currency. If we didn't have the euro, we would have devalued it to cover our deficits through exports. The euro destroyed the export potential of Southern European countries like France, and that's bad management. I imagine you're very rich now thanks to the euro? We sense a perfectly balanced man seething behind his screen, insulting everyone. The typical pro-European.

>>60569185 (OP)
>because it's centralization and leads to communism
>So I can't get a proper response from my fellow citizens who support it
so what you're saying is you're dumb or until recently had to ask for permission to go to the bathroom
Have you tried google?

>>60569478
Yeah I did faggot and basically no good arguments. or just empty words

>>60569476
For his good Romania doesn't have the euro it has it's own currency and he's ready to throw that away sadly

>>60569498
I think this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Increasing GDP is not a good measure. However, he's right about the fact that your state will receive money mainly from Western Europe and they will do two things like highways (they will then privatize them...) to say: "look, it's good." Except that during this time, that is to say that you look elsewhere, they will put you in a monetary straitjacket and leaving will mean ruin, your taxes will increase, your social benefits will be destroyed, they will bring Moldovans to work in German factories managed by Germans and little by little you will discover that you are slowly suffocating and that you no longer have a say in your own country.

>>60569510
Basically see this post >>60569475 as an example of starting this thread.

That was what I was referring to in my OP.

And you can see that my fellow countryman and the Romanian don't have answer as to why i'm wrong.
Or even make a good argument

>>60569185 (OP)
>And I doubt I'll find bulgarians here
thats 25% of this board, 50% are indian

>>60569185 (OP)
I think its a bad idea, the ecb are a bunch of evil kikes desu and the euro as a centralized currency for completely different economies turned out to be a bad idea, for some of them

Schengen is nice and all but lots of EU things are a complete overreach and authoritarian, just look at hungary and how their sovereign decisions are undermined and actively punished, dont want to take in 1 gazillion browns? Pay a 1 billion fine chud

euro has topped

>>60569185 (OP)
if you want sovereign money, trade your lev/euro for Bitcoin. thats it.
any fiat you hold should go to short-term/medium-term expenses. assume the currency can be inflated away 10,000% overnight (because it can). it's casino tokens that you must use to participate in your local society.
ideally:
>paycheque
>have a set amount of fiat units set up in some low yield chequing account (regular bank, .5%-3% interest on your money, €5,000)
>your savings are kept on a cold storage wallet, in Bitcoin (Electrum/Trezor suite + Trezor hardware wallet, ₿0.654372/₿15.27832/whatever)
>spend fiat, €5000 - €2,123 (expenses) + paycheque = €5,000 + [remainder dollar cost averaged into BTC and moved to cold storage]
if € continues to be inflated (and it will), you will make money betting against the euro
if interest in Bitcoin grows more than the euro, and it will, you will make money betting against the euro
any money you put into your cold storage shouldnt be touched for 5-25 years.
youre welcome. from Russia with love <3

>>60569625
Thanks I guess friend.
But I prefer and have invested in gold mainly because it has value and I can physically touch it.
Digital Currencies don't seem right to me(valid choice for keeping your money but still) something about not being able to touch it needing internet access for it doesn't sell it for me though I will admit not that educated on digital currencies, that and the privacy issues(look at the digital euro).

>>60569641
>I will admit not that educated on digital currencies, that and the privacy issues(look at the digital euro).
"you find bitcoin when you need it"
the euro is at your doorstep. your time of need has come.
time to get educated.

>>60569196
So like how every single shitty country is using the economy nowdays.

>>60569196
This. The EU is a burning building without any escape hatches - but the Euro - that is the thing that really gets you locked inside. It serves two purposes; one is to make the German currency artificially cheap - the DM was a nightmare with its strength - the second is a weapon as my French Brother in Christ here rightly notes. Avoid it like the plague. Frankly I feel sorry for all EU countries youre all trapped in it and they've gaslit the fuck out of you since Brexit to make it look like leaving is bad.

The euro is just a hedge against localized political instability. If a country in the eurozone is doing poorly due to their failed policies they will become radicalized and more extreme. This is a tale as old as time. Its a tool to exhibit control and to keep them under watch. As long as you keep bailing out greece, they wont start shooting immigrants on the streets.

What did you really think the euro was for? Common enterprise? Trust within your fellow european? You all were genociding each other 60 years ago and now youre all friends and want to help each other? Get realistic, its about control and to prevent political uprisings.

As long as you keep bailing out underperforming countries, you ruin the ones with real economic activity like germany and scandanavia. Eventually it will all blow up and that is the real start to ww3.

I'll say one last thing: be wary of pro-EU messages. There was a fairly recent scandal about troll farms paid for by the EU (any click will give you the sources). I'm not saying that all pro-EU people are trolls who come from there, but I know that they stoop to paying this kind of farm for their propaganda. Courage, my European friends, we're all on the Titanic.

>>60569717
What's worse is the people who support the EU and euro can't even explain why it's a good thing.
And whenever you bring some logical arguments they start to insult,laugh at you or call you a russophile.

Like why would you want to lose the sovereignty of your money?
Or how would the EURO decreause corruption when everyone who is CORRUPT IS FOR THE EURO?

How do these 2 arguments not raise red flags in their head and make them think that the euro is a bad idea.

you can see >>60569475
as example of what I mean

>>60569749
interesting how we don't hear about that.
We do know that Chinese and Russian bot farms are real but we don't see anyone talk about EU bot farms or US bot farms or kike bot farms

>>60569185 (OP)
Hi my fellow Bulgarian brother. I think you should call 117. They will told you everything you need to know.

>>60569750
The euro was invented as a form of control. To prevent germany or other countries from rising.

>>60569770
>Aкo eвpoтo щe нaмaли кopyпциятa тoгaвa зaщo хopa кaтo Бopиcoв,Дoгaн и Пeeвcки ca зa eвpoтo
>Гyбим cи cyвepeнитeтa нaд вaлyтaтa ни
>Eвpoтo e цeнтpaлизaция кoятo вoди дo кoмyнизъм и мнoгo хopa ca пoкaзвaли EC e кaтo бившoтo CCCP.
>Aкo eвpoтo фaлиpa ниe c нaшият вaлyтeн бopд мoжeм дa въpжeм лeвa към дpyгa вaлyтa кaтo Бpитaнcкият Пyндa или Aмepикaнcкият Дoлap или пък към cкъпoцeнни мeтaли кaтo злaтo.
>Лeвът e чacт oт нaшaтa иcтopия

нищo oт пoлзa нe ми кaзaхa зaтoвa тoзи пocт. тьй чe вмecтo дa мe пpeнacoчвaш oтгoвopи и/ли кoнтpиpaй пo гope кaзaнитe нeщa

>>60569773
Yeah I've watched mark dice showing that it was made in the bohemian grove, sadly I can't find the video anymore if you can find it please link it

>>60569782
You guys should answer the russian about how to define corruption.

>>60569792
SEE!

YOU'RE AN EXAMPLE OF WHY I MADE THIS POST.

AND SOLIDIFY WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THE EURO!

LITERALLY NOWHERE HAVE I PRAISED RUSSIA IF ANYTHING I HAVE SPOKEN AGAINST IT.

>>60569792
Sorry about that friend I thought you were the fellow countryman who was for the euro my bad

>no bulgarians here

>>60569795
Russia is literally the golden picture child of state ran corruption. If anyone has the ability to point out what looks like corruption and greed it would be a native born russian or even former USSR states.

The euro is comprised of control to a centralized power. Russia already went through that expirement and it ended with the collapse of the USSR. I have no idea why europe is following in their foot steps

>>60569812
The corrupt EU officials are very arrogant, this forum is nothing compared to that. They think the USSR collapsed because it was poorly managed and they think they will do better... This is obviously self-deception. Don't expect anything from them. It's not even democratic since the European Parliament is a recording chamber without real power and it is the unelected committee that decides everything. The greatest ambition of a European official is to be appointed to NATO except that the Americans treat them like what they are, that is to say, cowardly incompetents which makes them even more nasty.

>>60569812
yes friend I know i just thought you were my bulgarian brother who voiced support for the euro and that was directed to him.

Hence my somewhat hostile response(which I also apologised for)
Anyway I will translate it

>If the Euro will stop Corruption then why are corrupt people like Borisov,Dogan and peevski for it?
>We will lose our monetary sovereignty
>The euro is centralization and leads to communism and there are a lot of people who have pointed out that eu is like the former soviet union
>If the euro fails we can tie our currency to another currency like the British pound or the American Dollar or maybe to precious metal like gold.
>the lev is part of history of our country

>>60569798
Nah europeans just want state provided PrEp so they dont get aids from the gay sex theyve legalized rather than forming an actual military. Theyre lazy and export all forms of labor to marginalized countries. Without the american protection they hate so much, russia wouldve easily ran them over by now.

Theyre sick depraved dogs and need to be put in their place, especially after considering to be partners with china and buying middle eastern oil for decades.

Every night before i go to bed i pray to god that they will never receive impunity for their conceited and hubris filled homosexual lifestyles. God will answer eventually.

>>60569834
I can top that too
They enforce stupid restrictions and laws like
>Tethered bottle caps
>low power vaccuum cleaners
>Removal of old cars(maybe not a big deal but I love old cars) through taxation or outright ban
>Banning of gas powered cars
>ID cards NFC chip(strangely only Denmark don't have this)
>The euro
>Vignette stickers and shit

I can go on and on with the bullshit that goes on and the restrictions they impose

Russia has been evil in the past, but to be blind against china and terrorist backed oil regimes in the middle east is much worse. The EU is much more evil than the USSR, and much more useless too.

If the EU goes to war against russia and all their native born men die. The immigrants who came illegally will replace them and have sex with their wives spawning more of them.

>>60569861
Yes, the MICA law on cryptocurrencies is a good example of stupidity (they don't like USDT because CIRCLE gave a big fat check... that's the deal). They make lots of completely absurd restrictive measures and kill all innovation. Every new thing is a threat and everything must be legislated. Xi Jinjing is bad, Putin is bad, Trump is bad, crypto is bad, French nuclear power is bad, porn is bad, manga is bad (true fact), driving at 120 on a road where there is no one is bad etc etc. In short, we could talk about it for a long time. Living in the EU means spending your life seeing absurdity after absurdity, seeing your salary never increase and if you are a boss like me: taxes, standards, taxes and even more standards.

>>60569861
oh nooooo i can't breathe old german diesels anymore, my life is over

>>60569892
>conceited and hubris filled european

>>60569891
I agree with everything except that manga is bad, but hey everyone is different.

>>60569892
Climate change has been happening way before humans existed.
Also look at these cars
1 one is an audi quattro from the 80s and the other a shelby 500gtk
Examples of what the EU wants to ban/restrict.
Do tell me how electric vehicles powered by power plants is cleaner

>>60569952
smell the back of an old diesel car when it's running and tell me this shit should not be banned of the EU

if you can't afford a clean car then take the bus selyanin

>>60569952
Western europeans hate cars because their cities are not capable of handling that infrastructure. Literally everyone else is in favor of ICE engines, but again they think the world has to revolve around them and their ideals.

EVs are horrible during the winter time and they arent better for the environment.

>>60569961
Just because you cant go anywhere doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. The EU is not the entire world you entitled piece of shit. Youre in favor of limiting people's personal freedom which is typical

>>60569961
Drive you electric scooter retarded hippie.
Also FIY i have legit done this I have compared the emissions of some old cars and they produce LESS emissions than some of the new ones :D

>>60569977
They think the world should revolve around their ideals and they wont listen to a second opinion.

>>60569952
No, I meant that in the sense that they really used European money to find out if manga was bad. The EU still missed out on IT, the internet, mobile telephony, aerospace (ESA is a gas factory), now cryptocurrencies and surely the quantum revolution. Not that we don't have startups, but they leave as soon as they can because of standards, high taxes and too expensive electricity (why set up a factory here when American, Chinese, etc. electricity is cheaper?). Oh yes, by the way, you will have the European electricity market! This wonderful thing which consists of paying much more for the same product for no objective reason.

>>60569977
i don't care if the batteries pollutes congo / mali
i don't want to breather your poorfag villager bmw here

>>60569988
And europeans wonder why americans dont respect them. They export their problems to the world while living a lifestyle above their means.

>>60569995
we don't care about americans, 45% white strange meat
kys nobody loves you in the world

>>60569988
Lexus 2007 gas fueled driver faggot

>>60569988
you would rather import millions of immigrants and ignore intafada being preached at your doorstep, but heaven forbids if someone drives a gas powered car.

Pathetic.

disgusting ameripoors

>>60570002
i hate shitskins, that's why i hate the US, Germany, France and the UK

>>60570000
Your women get raped by immigrants and your native born men will die in war against russia. America doesnt care if people like them or not, because you need us regardless. Even starmer acknowledged it, but youre probably going to pass the blame

Tick tock yuropoor. Try developing a middle class for once before preaching

>>60570005
Why is it called a union if people can just leave it whenever they want? It just a confederacy.

>>60570010
im sure more mutts died in ukraine than french and germans together

no european is going to die fighting russia, this is your anglo cuck fantasy

get a strong currency before talking to me pathetic mutt 45% white (at best)

>>60570010
Calm down, John. Europeans talk about Europe for 10 minutes, but you feel left out, so you come and shout your hatred like your ancestors. Go ahead, tell us your misfortunes, John.

>>60569983
Its because they export their problems to everyone else while preaching that they have the best lifestyles

>>60570026
Grandpa is so old and frail its emberassing trying to live up to his ideals. The seething about being able to come from nothing into something is palpable.

>>60570026
I think that may be a bot. Could care less regardless if he for real or trolling. I do enjoy his replies :D

>>60570026
Its also fucking emberassing that we had to bail grandpa out of jail with so many programs after he got into domestic violence with his neighbors.

>what is the marshall plan
>what is american lend lease

We had to bail you out so many fucking times after ww1 and ww2 because of your own misfortunes. Maybe the US should respect the EUs wishes and pull out of europe. Surely you guys wont go back to genociding each other right?

>>60570050
No i just genuinely hate europeans because they pretend to live a better lifestyle than most of the real world even though they cant afford it. They keep getting scammed by greece, theyre idiots!

the US would not even exist without the UK and France

>>60570056
I don't know which European you're talking about. I never claimed that, and anyone who says Europeans are richer and freer than Americans is either an idiot or a liar. It's false, with figures to back it up. Are you confusing Europeans with their leaders, perhaps? (We don't like them either; we want them gone, in case you missed it.)

>>60570056
If that's true I do wonder what you hate more or the most i guess
kikes,muslims or europeans

>>60570063
All of them have their history of fair blame, the spanish and Portuguese for now are alright and they keep to themselves. I have much more respect for the polish keeping their native born safe rather than the british importing so many immigrants that blasphemy laws are making a comeback. Even then the irish are having protests and deciding wether or not to keep ireland irish.

You guys need to stand up for yourselves and protect your culture which is definitely under threat by subversion.

>>60570077
I 100% agree and that's precisely what I've been doing throughout this thread, particularly denouncing the euro and its dangers. I've been fighting the EU for about ten years, and not just online. That's why I know this scam institution well. The problem is that we won't get there through democratic means since everything is locked down now. The EU must collapse economically for the situation to become so untenable that even the normies will have to wake up. and that doesn't look good for the EU.

>>60570070
Europeans by a slight margin more due to backwards laws that limit personal freedom and speech. With muslims and jews thats their religion and culture and they can practice what they believe. Otherwise i dont have qualms against any specific religion unless their practice supercedes the personal freedoms of other people in that country.

>>60570091
I mean I am a skeptic and a pacifist(yes that's it's own faults but part of this is inspired by the amish in the USA which I greatly respect)
But even if this can't be done by voting or democracy. Can we at least reason or have discussion with pro eurozone and pro european union supporters. I would like that the most because as you can see by the above posts whenever I bring logical arguments they instead point me to something I have already seen,insult,laugh or call me a russophile.

I Legit would like to have a reasonable and civilized discussion

>>60570123
I imagine you can join anti-EU networks near you? A word of advice: treat Europeanists as if they were people under the influence of a sect, don't confront them directly. Ask them questions about their beliefs. For example: "So you think our level will rise thanks to the euro? Why do you think that?" Don't say it's stupid when he gives you his answer. Just tell him to do his research. I think there are groups in Bulgaria that are responsible for informing people and alternative media. Russophobia seems to be a real sticking point, but Bulgaria leaving totalitarianism and joining the EU means accepting another, even more insidious form of totalitarianism; it's quite terrible.

>>60570054
What a retarded post lmao. By bailing out you mean we sided with literal commies to put down the last revival of nationalism in Europe at the behest of our Semitic masters. It's been our foreign policy for 80 years get a fucking clue.

>>60570123
I mean, you left the totalitarianism of the USSR and entered the EU it's almost the same. I don't know if I expressed myself well in the previous message. I think that Bulgaria has the right to be Bulgarian without depending on x or y.

>>60570141
Its basically playing a game of checkers against a chicken. You can win by playing the game or the chicken can win by flipping the board over and strutting around.

Even if you get your point across and be logically correct, the chicken can still flip the board over.

>>60570149
>The Marshall Plan provided approximately $13.3 billion in aid to Western European countries from 1948 to 1951

>The American Lend-Lease program provided approximately $50.1 billion (equivalent to $672 billion in 2023 dollars) in aid to Allied nations during World War II

>>60570153
Yeah friend that's what I said we like traded the ussr for the eu scroll up.

>>60570141
But most don't do their research....
And what's wrong with pointing that that we lose our monetary sovereignty or how it would increase corruption due to the fact corrupt(proven to be corrupt as well) people want to adopt the euro.
I do list more logical reasons but I think these two get the point across.

And okay I will try what you said.

>>60570162
>we provided billions of eurodollars to jew-run governments after we toppled their enemies
Ever wonder why Europe started going to shit after WW2? From waves of mass immigration to liberalism being injected at every level of society? Use your head mate. This wasn't a "bail out".

>>60570209
>it was DA JOOS!!

>>60569222
>a strong currency that suits exporting countries
retard, stop writing walls of text, you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about, no wonder france is such a fucking shithole if every imbecile feels the need to go on incoherent rants about topics they don't understand, read a fucking book instead of sucking your own cock so much

>>60570273
this thread is a prime example of how fucking stupid low class fags are, property qualifications should have never been removed, and then they wonder why the western world is so fucked

>>60569185 (OP)
and to give you a non retarded answer you won't even bother reading, your currency has been pegged to the euro since 1999 so you've been using the euro as a currency in everything but name ever since then

>>60569185 (OP)
well it's fiat, so expect to be poor if you use it

>>60570430
try me write your answer I've pretty much read every answer up till now

So whatever you write I'll read it
You can even say that I have followed this thread.

Also we have a currency board we can tie the lev to the American Dollar, swiss frank or British Pound or precious metals.

I do truly want an answer so please by all means write me an essay and I will read it

But if you don't just solidify the reason for this post reading and solidify what I said that you guys can't give reasons.

I have provided more than a few on why it's bad and can provide more.

So i am eagerly awaiting for such a response/answer

>>60570486
>You can even say that I have followed this thread.
see not say. My bad

>>60570352
Yes, the euro is a good fit for countries like Germany... Do you have anything to say about that? Or do you want to go and explain to Germany that its currency (the euro is the modified German mark) is not good for its economy ? The franc was weaker than the euro and we were doing much better.

>>60570486
Ill be honest with you OP i didnt read anything that was posted in the beginning. I just hate europeans west of slovenia and poland. You guys are stuck between a rock and a hard place where you know what the future entails. The USSR used to manufacture famines near the baltics and endorsed genocides in the balkans. If anyone should listen to an argument on why western europe is entertaining authoritarianism and totalitarianism its you guys.

The only logical answer i can see why former satellite states would want to go back to that system is because (A) they can ask for more money from the EU (B) they want military protection from Russia potentially. Why else would they just want to adopt the Euro as the risk of losing their sovereignty?

A collective euro only displaces gibs from countries that produce into countries that will perpetually demand gibs

>>60570512
Wow thanks friend :)
>The only logical answer i can see why former satellite states would want to go back to that system is because (A) they can ask for more money from the EU (B) they want military protection from Russia potentially. Why else would they just want to adopt the Euro as the risk of losing their sovereignty?
This kind of makes sense but Bulgaria is in NATO so shouldn't supposedly protect us. And it might be both...
Can't belive an American that despises Europe and doesn't live in Europe provided a logical answer.
But still asking for more is still bad because spending can get out of control

FIY i'm neutral about NATO i just don't want the european union and the eurozone

It's good because it will introduce fiscal discipline to your barbarian country. Subhumans like Bulgarians, Romanians, Greeks etc cannot be trusted with macroeconomics so they need to be kept under the ECB's control.
Just look at the 2010-2011 debt crisis. All those swarthy southern European countries were ready to default on their debt because budgeting is too hard a science for them. If they had their own currency they would have defaulted BY CHOICE and either introduced a new currency with a couple zeroes removed (typilcal third world zimbabwe-tier strategy lmao) or adopted a foreign more stable currency as de facto tender.

Think of the Euro as being permanently under an IMF restructuring program, but for European countries only. Your retarded leaders elected by an even more retarded populace can pretend to have a bit of sovereignty and freedom but when it comes to monetary and financial policies, the big boys in Brussels and Frankfurt will be doing the job for you.

>>60570512
Thinking about your answer more
Also opens the door for endless spending,more and higher taxes and more corruption.
Still how can the people who support the european union and the euro not see the red flags?

>>60570538
Strange how our lev has remained stable all this time then.
The same lev Reinvented by steve hanke who made it so we don't default and made it so that it would restrict corruption.

It's funny that you mentioned Greece I don't remember them doing any good after adopting the Euro.
>. If they had their own currency they would have defaulted BY CHOICE and either introduced a new currency with a couple zeroes removed (typilcal third world zimbabwe-tier strategy lmao)
you don't know that
and which southern countries are you referring to?

>Your retarded leaders elected by an even more retarded populace can pretend to have a bit of sovereignty and freedom but when it comes to monetary and financial policies, the big boys in Brussels and Frankfurt will be doing the job for you.

And there lies the problem we don't have sovereignty of our currency not only that but it's centralization that leads to communism just like the soviet union which also it's own centralized currency. on top of that the EU wants a digital euro which is evil.

>>60570539
It primarily displaces fiscal energy over a too thin of a margin between so many countries. Its why west EU midwits get their panties up in a bunch when Americans bring up the trade deficit. There are too little countries that manufacture and produce physical good in the EU to support everything. As a distraction they point out the "services" they provide to make up for it.

The more countries that joins the EU and doesnt produce, the more strained the actual producers get, undermining the whole point. Bad policies could be the reason why bulgaria is struggling or it could be due to a lack of investment.

Speaking of investment, the EU is forcibly taking every citizen's savings and putting themselves as a custodial for the "good of the EU". This is because theyre finally forced to start paying more for NATO which requires more capital. Theyre broke and any gibs they give you, they will claw back somehow.

>>60570486
It's not something you can write here in 5 min, the implications are a lot more complex than what I could explain to you well. The euro, as the EU, has its good things and its bad things. For responsible countries with good governments that have a strong manufacturing sector that exports outside of the EU a lot, the euro is an economy killer (not your case since most of your exports go to the EU and your currency was already pegged). For countries that keep on electing retarded populist leaders that keep devaluing the currency to fund their promises for gibs while fucking the exonomy, the euro is a leash on those retards to stop killing all of the population's savings (look at how many south americans keep their savings in dollars because they know their shitty governments will keep on fucking up monetary policy).
So it's a trade off, yes you are no longer sovereign in monetary terms, but in exchange you get a currency that's too big to manipulate by speculators (look at the 1997 asian financial crisis if you want to see what can be done to weak currencies in terms of manipulation), stable (good if you keep your savings in currency and your governments are shit), stronger (you get more purchasing power for imports), etc.
I don't know much about bulgarian politics so you have to judge for yourself if you have good governments that could be trusted not to turn your country into venezuela with cheap promises. In any case we live in 2025 and you have access to internet, rather than listening to what retarded 4chinners have to say I heavily encourage you to read about monetary economics and the euro, there's plenty of information written by actual economists online who can explain these things much better than any of us.

>>60570507
weak currencies are good for exporting manufacturing countries like germany, if germany had a weaker currency their exports would be much more competitive abroad (look at south korea), the euro helps germany be more competitive within the EU but makes it weaker to export abroad
italy and france got fucked hard by the euro because you were selling cheaper exports abroad a lot more, so you benefited from a weaker currency, however it has to be pointed out the rise of china would have been devastating to you with or without the euro, and most of your problems are the doing of your own governments which you, not the EU, elected

>>60569185 (OP)
If you're interested in a technical analysis of the EURO currency, here's a great book.
Bagus is probably the only one correctly pointing out the tragedy of the commons to which this currency is subjected t.

In short - due to there being 1 central bank and many fiscal budgets (Euro countries), the cost of monetizing deficits is shifted onto the entire Eurozone.
Basically, the PIIGS countries could issue bonds and the ECB would accept them as collateral for further loans, and the risk was always the same.
In other words - all countries' bonds had the same rating, Germany and Greece, France and Italy, etc. This pushed the interest rate much lower than it should've been, which allowed the PIIGS to drown in debt, which the lead to the EURO crisis.

This currency is a political project, not an economic one. It's inflationary, prone for corruption.

A better system would be where the ECB was onnly issuing the currency, without giving any loans no anyone.
In this way, the governments would have to sell their bonds on the open market, where the risk would be accurately measured, which would translate into correct interest rates.

>>60569427
Look at this faggot right here
Romania is full of them
I really hope we get dragged in a war against the russians and get nuked eventually because there is no saving this place

>>60571341
Nah sure he is a bot or gets paid for it. The pic of the female is to generate more attention for the post. He also has no point besides "muh russi"

>>60569185 (OP)
New countries adopting euro is basically the EU exporting inflation. So your money printing can continue. Hitler did the same. Germany would have faced severe inflation sooner, but when they annexed austria and later sudetenland they introduced the RM as currency. The more people have to use your currency the more you can print.

There is no benefit to sovereignty if it just makes you poor and weak. Look what happened to Ukraine, or Belarus, because they were sovereign. With euro you will be better integrated to the european economy which means more business, increased living quality ect. Only low iq uneducated lower class people talk how sovereignty is amazing ”because it just is, ok?” Don’t listen to losers living in their mom’s basement, EU is the best bet us europeans have. Of course it’s not perfect and needs to be carefully cultivated. But sovereignty means entering the russian sphere of influence and you’re a fucking retard if you can’t think even that much ahead. T. Finland

>>60571380
>muh russia!
>gets replaced by brown third worlders instead.

kek
t. american chad

>>60570555
USA also has a central currency, is it communistic? By your logic every municipality should be sovereign with it’s own currency because it’s less communistic. You’re just dumb as fuck now, funny how it’s always the simple thinking people who are against euro.

>>60571388
USA is much browner than europe. You seriously think russians are as white as western europeans? They’re a completely different breed. I’d rather have some third world immigration (that makes low tiet services cheaper) than get my entire culture and people replaced in 20 years karelia style.

>>60569750
>people who support the EU and euro can't even explain why it's a good thing.
they always say convenience for muh travel and we have to stick it to america (only when republicans are in charge) and chyna
couldn't care less about that shit to be desu

>>60571389
USA is a country European UNION is a UNION like the Soviet UNION RETARD.
The Soviet UNION made all of it's members e.g. Belarus,Ukraine,Latvia and all of it's other members to use only 1(ONE) CURRENCY.
And the Soviet UNION was communistic jackass.
You're the one who's dumb if you can't see the communism of the EU.Viktor Orban has also made the comparison, literally a person who was jailed by commies here's a pic.
You just like that nanny shlom being shoved faggot.

>>60571380
Gee I wonder which other UNION spoke ill of independence and sovereignty. AH YES I remember it was THE SOVIET UNION MORON!

>>60571397
our browns have always been here.
in america it's less about race and more about culture. and we are deporting those non-assimilated.

meanwhile your leaders are importing them. look at canada, it's done, total replacement.

>>60571413
The goal of EU is to become one country or whatever with enough time. But that type of cultural, economical and political integration takes time and is a slow process. It’s stupid to think that EU and USSR are the same just because they have the word union in them, they’re completely different things. USSR was run by russian savages, do you really see the dutch or french acting like people in USSR did kek? Thus far there has been nothing of the sort. It’s either EU or ending up like Ukraine or Belarus, you have to choose. And thus far EU has been nothing like USSR and probably never will be because europeans just don’t have USSR style retardation in our blood kek.

>>60571415
They are being assimilated in our high level public education systems too. And a lot of countries are cutting down their immigration levels, it’s not like EU can’t exist with lower immigration too. But they do also make things cheaper by providing additional cheap labour.

Both fiat currencies. The only difference will be that it will be easier for businesses to trade.
Banks HATE this btw.

bought a flat in bulgaria when it was still cheap
going to sell it at the next cycle bottom to put it all in Bitcoin
thank you bulgaria for your help in my life i will never forget you

bulgaria gave me:

- to escape frankistan
- to fuck cute slavic 8/10's
- to make +50K on a flat in 3 years
- to pay 0% taxes on my Bitcoin profits

I love you bulgaria

>>60571323
>look at how many south americans keep their savings in dollars because they know their shitty governments will keep on fucking up monetary policy
NEVER KEEP YOUR SAVINGS IN PAPER NO MATTER THE CURRENCY

And thanks for the essay i did read it and glad you acknowledge the bad stuff.
But here's the thing our currency has a board system which ties our currency to any other currency or precious metal that was made by Steve Hanke a guy who has been hired by ALOT of governments to fix their economy.He has literally predicted economic disasters of my country back in 1997(which he then was hired to fix and he did), Japan,UK.
Our currency is working and stable and even the ones who are for the EURO also say it. So why Replace something that is working with something else? Not only that but with our currency if the EURO fails we can tie our lev to say the British pound,US dollar or the SWISS frank or even better tie to the price of gold de facto creating a gold standard.
Our government is corrupt and our leaders who are corrupt want the EURO. That itself is a red flag. Because since when did they start caring the country and the people? NEVER.
I do like how you gave reasons. And what you said is true is not entirely right(I mean about the lev being replaced about the EURO).
If our lev was something like the japanese yen,Russian Roubble or the chinese Yuan I would support the adoption of the euro but it is not.
And not only that our currency is stable.

>you have access to internet, rather than listening to what retarded 4chinners have to say I heavily encourage you to read about monetary economics and the euro, there's plenty of information written by actual economists online who can explain these things much better than any of us.

A lot of them including Steve Hanke have said If Bulgaria Adopts the Euro it will face the same crisis as Greece and it will be bad for Bulgaria and Bulgarians. But no one is listening to him.

>>60571460
shut the fuck up loser, you sound like you are 18 y/o

bulgaria has virtually the euro since 2002, be angry at your people's greediness if anything

>>60571431
GEE
Where do i start with how eu is like USSR
>Tethered bottle caps
>low power vaccuum cleaners
>Removal of old cars(maybe not a big deal but I love old cars) through taxation or outright ban
>Banning of gas powered cars
>ID cards NFC chip(strangely only Denmark don't have this)
>The euro
>Vignette stickers and shit
>Article 19 which censors the internet in EU members.

If you want more examples of commie bullshit tell me.
>USSR was run by russian savages
Communism doesn't choose nationalities..,
It's just retards choosing an ideology and then labelling something so they can implement it

Like fascism and Nazism they are like communism but a lighter version.
If anything Ursula what's her name is descendant of a literal NAZI and a slave owner.

Now you have her being the head of the EU or should I say EUSSR.

>>60571464
and you didn't refute anything I said.
But hey do tell me why do our greedy and corrupt leaders want to adopt the euro?
That itself is a red flag.
You think that corrupt politicians would want to something to limit their corruption or greediness?
If that was the case then the corrput and greedy politicans of Bulgaria wouldn't want the EURO.
The euro will make corruption worse

>>60571476
Bad examples.
>>restricting free speech ("hate speech")
>>resricting their citizens from buying products from other countries (russian gas, chinese ev)
>>sending tax money to niggers like ussr did
>>creating a climate of fear and intimidation so you dont critizize them or the homos
>>criminalizing political opposition while actual crime goes through the roof
>>agressive war rethoric
>>extensive propaganda assets
EU shills cant refute this

>>60571460
>the same crisis as Greece
that would happen if you elect somebody who starts borrowing to give gibs, since 2008 it's become harder for governments to overspend, but ultimately prosperity is about you electing good leaders and innovating, else you will end up stagnated like the west with or without the euro
>if the EURO fails we can tie our lev to say the British pound,US dollar or the SWISS frank or even better tie to the price of gold de facto creating a gold standard
if the euro fails it means europe is collapsing and you are fucked either way because most of your exports go to europe
>Our government is corrupt and our leaders who are corrupt want the EURO
if you don't trust your governments then the euro is a good choice because they will not be able to fuck with your currency, if you elect a bad enough leader he could stop the pegging and start printing cash until your currency is bolivar tier, with the euro it will never happen.
I don't know the inner works of why you're doing the change right now, it's true you can go on with your currency pegged like denmark and there's no reason to change. Maybe there's something I don't know, maybe it's just pro-european show at a time where russia is threatening. In any case nothing will really change for you, if anything you'll be more stable and reduce the damage dumb gypsies voting for retards can do.

>>60571497
I was saving those... if they wanted more examples....
But thanks

>>60571500
>that would happen if you elect somebody who starts borrowing to give gibs, since 2008 it's become harder for governments to overspend, but ultimately prosperity is about you electing good leaders and innovating

This would be true in a utopia but we're not in a utopia.

>if the euro fails it means europe is collapsing and you are fucked either way because most of your exports go to europe

we have a currency board and can tie our lev to a different currency.

>if you don't trust your governments then the euro is a good choice because they will not be able to fuck with your currency

Friend our corrupt and greedy politicians and leaders want it.That itself is a red flag. Do you think they would want the EURO if it limited their corruption or greediness?

Literally Steve Hanke has our currency Stable and is the only thing working properly in our country he said it. Not only but he also made our currency like that so it can limit the corruption and greediness of our leaders he even went as far as to say that if there were no government/politicians or leaders in Bulgaria it would be better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NjJ1P6p79k

>>60571497
>restricting free speech ("hate speech")
hate speech is national law, look at the UK
>resricting their citizens from buying products from other countries (russian gas, chinese ev)
you can't buy iranian oil in the US either, that's geopolitics and has always happened in one way or other throughout history
>sending tax money to niggers like ussr did
the ussr didn't have niggers or gibs, that's social democracy
>creating a climate of fear and intimidation so you dont critizize them or the homos
that is also national policy, see poland having anti-homo governments until very recently
>criminalizing political opposition while actual crime goes through the roof
that's individual politicians who use cheap discourse because most people are braindead when it comes to politics, it happens even more in the US
>agressive war rethoric
I wish, moscow should be glassed and russians enslaved
>extensive propaganda assets
give 1 example
out of all the actual bad things about the EU you have mentioned none

>>60571506
>Do you think they would want the EURO if it limited their corruption or greediness
Nobody said having one currency or another limits corruption, that is fucking retarded, corruption is limited by having a working independent judicial system and free press. Having the euro or using gold coinage will not alter the levels of corruption ffs

>>60571510
How do you define hate speech?
I mean on 4chan a lot of people are hostile and use bad/mean words is that hate speech?
also this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bMzFDpfDwc

>>60571517
I don't fucking defend hate speech laws, they are a legal abomination, I'm saying they are laws made by individual countries, the EU doesn't mandate you have hate speech laws it's the national governments fucking imbeciles elect, reading fucking comprehension holy shit

>>60571516
>if you don't trust your governments then the euro is a good choice because they will not be able to fuck with your currency, if you elect a bad enough leader he could stop the pegging and start printing cash until your currency is bolivar tier, with the euro it will never happen.
I don't know the inner works of why you're doing the change right now, it's true you can go on with your currency pegged like denmark and there's no reason to change. Maybe there's something I don't know, maybe it's just pro-european show at a time where russia is threatening. In any case nothing will really change for you, if anything you'll be more stable and reduce the damage dumb gypsies voting for retards can do.

I thought implied corruption with that so my bad i guess.

Still we have elected plenty of bad leaders and the fact that our lev is still standing is a sign of it's stability and resilience.

>>60571524
Sorry again then.
Was just under the impression you were deffending the EU my bad friend

>>60571525
>we have elected plenty of bad leaders and the fact that our lev is still standing is a sign of it's stability and resilience
that's because they weren't bad enough, as long as they have sovereignty over monetary policy they can fuck with it, if they didn't do it it's because they weren't as bad as you think, corruption =/= stupidity

Lol stupid fucking europeans

Might as well call it the european confederacy

>>60571529
>you were deffending the EU
the EU has nothing to do with hate sppech laws holy shit you're dumb

>>60571536
Maybe.

But still not a good idea to adopt the euro

Here's Steve Hanke in english saying not adopt the euro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15_WNwwQVxI

I will admit it's nice to have discussions like this and thanks

>>60571541
I said sorry friend and got the wrong impression no need for insults.Things like that can happen

>>60571543
If you say sorry again it might help

The european union is just three homosexuals in a lemonade stand giving away free lemonade to muslims

>>60571544
Hey man I get you.
And wish could live in the USA and maybe assimilate with the amish.
Mainly because of their independent,simple and stress free life.They're also really kind people

>>60571543
you are implying depending the EU is the same as defending hate speech laws, I'm ok with you attacking the new deforestation regulation or the green climate bullshit but don't spread russian propaganda talking points ffs, you are lowering the political discourse to a shit throwing contest by doing that

European union? More like european poo-ion

>>60571548
>The united states is just three homosexuals in a lemonade stand giving away free lemonade to beaners

>cu 1,50 for your worthless toilet paper

>>60571544
>>60571548
>>60571556
ebin troll :DDD funee :----DDDD you really owned the eurocrats epic style xDD

>>60569185 (OP)
if your politicians are retarded it keeps value better but beyond that not much as you give away a huge chunk of independency

>>60571490
You’re a complete fucking retard dude. You just make shit up and assume it’s the fact, the definition of stupid. I can see what kind of uneducated retards are against the eu. You’re literalky too dumb for your own good (as a certain part of a population always is).

Three homosexuals walk into a bar, one is german, the other is french, and the last one is british.

After a full night they receive the bill and the brit says "im a little strapped for cash". The french man looks at the german expecting him to pay. The german notices this and fills the tab. This happens again and again until germany snaps and said "this is enough!"

Then ww2 happened.

>>60569427
yes you need competency to have your own currency. the scandis like norway, sweden have no problem with their own currency but i wouldn't be so confident about all the countries bordering russia as the culture is traditionally more about stealing and corruption than doing things right

>>60571575
How did I make stuff up friend?

Gee then why is Steve Hanke who made our modern lev saying we shouldn't adopt the euro. You know the same guy who has been hired by countless governments to fix economies.

Hmmmmmm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15_WNwwQVxI

I can also see that you can understand Bulgarian so here's a shorter version in Bulgarian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NjJ1P6p79k

You're just a blind pro EU retarded faggot

>>60571551

>>60571606
I changed my mind about the EU. Europeans deserve to live under oppression and zero economic mobility. Anything left of slovenia.

>>60571617
Basically all of western Europe?

>>60571497
>>restricting free speech ("hate speech")
Can you give examples of this? Every nation does this, Russia too

>>sending tax money to niggers like ussr did
Once again every rich country does this, beats being a russian puppet
>>criminalizing political opposition while actual crime goes through the roof
Can you give examples of this? Immigration is being limited in many EU countries. Also crime is lower than vefore EU.
>>agressive war rethoric
Complety justified, focus is on defence


All in on all you posted nothing that either is worse than being a bitch of USA or Russia or that rich countries in general don’t do.

>>60571476
Wow what a fucking nothing to complain about vs. having your sovereignty curtailed by Russia. Nothing like actual USSR, you’re not making any logical points here.

>>60571614
go vote for whatever kremlin retard is saying EU bad and make your country into a utopia like belarus or ukraine, I'm not wasting a single more second with you

>>60571620
Yes because of euros like this

>>60571621
They are conceited and filled with hubris

>>60569185 (OP)
The Euro is a strong currency and Bulgaria should be lucky to get this opportunity at all. Better tell me why anyone would want worthless bulgarian money. It isnt worth the paper its printed on.

>>60571621
Wow you are commie here's a hammer and sickle comrade.

The fact that you insult people with differing views
and willing to throw away freedom independence and sovereignty shows that you don't value it

>>60571639
Just look at the recent performance vs the dollar, eurochads stay winning

>>60569185 (OP)
its cool because your governament loses agency to fuck up, but it balances itself out because you have the collective retardation of all member states

>>60571639
>If the Euro will stop Corruption then why are corrupt people like Borisov,Dogan and peevski for it?
>We will lose our monetary sovereignty
>The euro is centralization and leads to communism and there are a lot of people who have pointed out that eu is like the former soviet union
>If the euro fails we can tie our currency to another currency like the British pound or the American Dollar or maybe to precious metal like gold.
>the lev is part of history of our country

I can list more if you want now do tell me how the Euro is better?

>>60571644
If that's the case why isn't the EURO the worlds reserve currency or the main currency of the world?

>>60571642
Dont be so hard on the western european. They wear their mental chastity cage everyday so they dont understand the concept of needing personal freedom.

>>60569223
well, if theyd call me russophile and i would call them something equally agressive

>>60571642
I have said nothing communistic, once again you aren’t making any sense. My granddad fought in the winter war. Under EU i will have even more freedom than just under Finland (for example i can travel easily to a lot of countries). I value independence and that’s why i know i’ll have more freedom under EU than i would have under Russia. But as i said in the beginning, sovereignty isn’t some endgoal if it makes you weak. We can still be free and democratic under EU once it finishes it’s slow march into a federation. Our own nation state identities were created in the 19th century by nationalistic movements and now a broader european identity is forming, with european values (freedom, equality, democracy).

>>60571558
How's your glorified hospitality and call center economy going so far?

>>60571668
You must be that sort of retard that thinks it would have been physically impossible to travel before the EU.

>muh federation

>>60569185 (OP)
>Basically I'm Bulgarian
Closes thread.

>>60571524
>In addition, to face the challenges of online hatred, the European Commission initiated in 2016 a voluntary Code of Conduct on countering illegal hate speech

lol

>>60571668
>sovereignty isn’t some endgoal if it makes you weak
You can't have freedom independence and sovereignty without one or the other they literally are connected.

You saying that just shows your ignorance.

>Under EU i will have even more freedom than just under Finland
EU is NOT Europe and Europe is not Finland/Bulgaria and Bulgaria/Finland is not Europe.

>i can travel easily to a lot of countries
So you think it's a problem to have borders?
Or you wouldn't mind our gypsies to come in Finland and continue it's dicking?

The fact that you can't understand what i'm saying shows yours stupidity.
But hey what do I know I do come from a shithole that was under communist oppression for 50 years. surely I or any of the other former communist countries can't see it.
Hell if we go by that then Viktor Orban who I have showed to have been arrested multiple times in this thread also doesn't make sense

>>60571708
Based bulgarian

>>60571696
Yeah I forgot about that.
Though to be honest I just want to be left alone,have a choice and NOT have things forced on me, so I forgot about that and don't know much of the EU stuff but it has gotten into my life more than once enough for me to hate it

>>60571593
and then the german get jumped by the entire continent again

funny story krautcuck

>>60571593
ww2 happened with MEFO bills and german niggers having a debt thrice their economy,, just like the war on ukraine happened with german money feeding the russian oil industry. meanwhile, they still have ww2 debts and reunification bills to pay up

>>60571380
Strange, I'm looking at Ukraine and I'm seeing a nation so comically poor it's on the verge of not even being funny anymore hold its' own against Russia. What I'm seeing is hardy men fighting and dying for their country. Something that the subhumans living in Finland could never accomplish.
Your utterly subhuman shithole filled with effeminized men that let their daughters get raped by afghanis would have surrendered on day 1. The same thing applies for every other western nation. The delusion that you would do better than Ukrainians is absolutely laughable.

>>60571415
kekadooodle doooo, deliciously coping amerimutt rat.
Not only are we not importing anything, not only are you not deporting anyone, you are, and have been, importing more non-white than the entirety of Europe put together for years on end.
You know a little thing called the migration crisis? It peaked in 2015. Yes, 10 years ago. It peaked with a grand total of 1.1 million rapefugees entering in 2015. In contrast under Biden the united mongrelian shitgoles imported 2+ million non-whites every year for year LMFAO
A nation of just 350 million was importing millions, with an "s", of non-whites when illegal migration to Europe, a continent of 700m, had dropped into the 5 digit numbers.
You are literally speaking less than 50% white. Meanwhile, even the brownest shithole in Europe is over 80% white kek

>>60571708
You haven’t given a single counterargument to the russian threat and keep calling EU USSR without being able to give any proof of how they are similiar. That’s why i’m calling you a retard, because you keep touting the same shit instead of being able to give real arguments.

I admit the gypsies are annoying lol, but a small price to pay for seeing all kinds of interesting europeans more in Finland.

>>60571805
>keep calling EU USSR without being able to give any proof of how they are similiar

I have given examples you just turn a blind a eye ignore them.

The you acknowledged that is bad are the gypsies.

I can't help you if you refuse to think/look things through.


And I did give arguments the fact is you ignore them. You just dismissed them as being absurd and nothing compared to the USSR.

but hey I don't wanna waste my time so I'll link this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S1-r29Gifo

it speaks perfectly for itself

BTW FYI China is a bigger threat than Russia Hence me not caring about Russia or commenting on it.

>>60571841
I have given examples you just turn a blind a eye AND ignore them.

You acknowledged that GYPSIES ARE BAD.

just rewording a few things

>>60571796
only angry people cope (you)

self-deportations happening bigly. redditors posting ice vids daily. ice funding is about to increase 20x.
i saw some poor mexican bastard walking down the sidewalk with his lunch in hand get chased by plain clothed ice.

the browns are my landscapers, berry pickers, taco makers. always have been.
what are your browns?
every major euro city is flooded now. americans used to desire visiting europe.

>>60569196
As a swamp jew aka Dutch man, I have to admit that this frog is 100% on the money.
Adopting the euro is just a express train to being part of Ursula von der Leyen's tax camp.

>>60571850
And europeans used to desire travelling to USA. They are the taxi drivers ect. here too.

>>60571841
Russia is fucking slaughtering ukrainians right now and china is the bigger threat? Lmao i’m done here, how did a guy woth your iq even find this place? The same as russia applies to china too btw, they are just not as close.

>>60571882
I don't care about Ukraine or Russia if anything they can go fuck themselves.

Ukraine is not a NATO member or a EU member.
truth be told zelenskyy has halted elections there
So why should I care for Ukraine when it stopped having elections during wartime? If a country is a democracy it would have an election even during wartime like the USA in the civil war and both WWs

And don't give me the UK as an excuse during WW2 because if anything the americans should have attacked both the UK for not holding elections during the WWs and the Soviet Union when it didn't had nukes to prevent communism

>>60571871
a typical american's experience in europe today would be degraded compared to a decade ago.
i don't know why a euro would want to visit america, but those experiences would still exist today.

>>60571934
I mean I would love to move to the USA

but 2 things scare me

Your insurrence/health care system
and the IRS

>>60569185 (OP)
Maйкa ти дa eбa, мaнгaл, дaнo дa yмpeш!

>>60571951
ти cъщo измeт кoмyниcтичecкa!

>>60570559
small countries can't invest and always rely on attracting foreign money which comes with its huge problems. everything has been made so expensive that small countries are fucked if they weren't lucky before this whole globalization mess started like norway was with its oil, not far away you got finland, a dying shithole that has absolutely nothing since the short lived lucky moment with nokia and is slowly dying away and probably eventually becoming part of russia as its literally depopulating fast and even now has the people of a small city elsewhere in eu

>>60569222
>Moreover, the euro is a strong currency that suits exporting countries like Northern European countries well
You've got it the wrong way around entirely.
The Euro was artificially low to keep exports competitive with the US and the rest of the world. If Germany was still using the Mark their currency would have been extremely highly valued and made exports far less competitive. Giving it to poor countries and removing their ability to control their own currency has had a massively negative effect on those countries because it drives up their living costs as they are now on a currency that is too highly valued for their national output.
The Euro is like a prison for the former Eastern Bloc countries and Southern Europe. You get gibs in Euros which keeps the Western and Northern economy competitive but you become a vassal state to them.

>>60571934
I visited New York and Miami, NY was absolutely full of homeless people compared to europe, and brown. Nothing like hollywood media. The infrastructure looked very decayed too outside skyscrapers. Miami also had homeless/crazy people on the streets and was brown. Both of them felt degraded compared to 20 years ago.

>>60571894
How can you be stuck on something so irrelevant as elections in war time? It’s the war that’s the problem. If Bulgaria was alone, Russia could invade it the same as Ukraine. Just the threat should be enough to make a grown up person want to join other coalition, like EU and NATO.

>>60571510
a big part of "national law" actually comes from the eu and they send fines of billions to those that refuse to implement them

>>60572004
That's nice and all or bad I guess.
Still don't understand how people for the EU and the EURO can't see the bigger picture.

I mean I legit got more informed on the EURO being supposedly "good" for Bulgaria by an AMERICAN who HATES and doesn't live in EUROPE.
There was another guy who idk where he is from that was neutral(or at least seemed neutral) and had a reasonable discussion.
But pretty much everyone that was for the EU and EURO was hostile latest being this guy who told me to die while fucked my mom >>60571951

I mean how can these people be so hostile and refuse discussions? Like if you support something explain/discuss why instead of insulting/laughing at, calling others russophiles or wishing death on them

>>60571575
ah yes the guy with the official government approved university degree thinks he is smart and an independent thinker :D

>>60572023
>How can you be stuck on something so irrelevant as elections in war time?

if elections are so bad why not do away with them?

No excuses for wartime to halt elections period.
If a country at war halts elections then it doesn't deserve to have sovereignty independence and freedom.

>If Bulgaria was alone, Russia could invade it the same as Ukraine. Just the threat should be enough to make a grown up person want to join other coalition, like EU and NATO

We're already NATO so try again.

And russia wouldn't attack us or any NATO member because that means literal WW3.

I say this to everyone pro Russia and Ukraine if you support these shitholes
Go there and fight to support them.

you sound like a loser who hates freedom,independence and sovereignty so go there and waste your life I could care. At least you will be practicing what you preach instead of just preaching it.

FYI China is a bigger threat due to it's belt and road program and it's 17+1 program

>>60572060
>you sound like a loser who hates freedom,independence and sovereignty so go there and waste your life I could care. At least you will be practicing what you preach instead of just preaching it.

you sound like a loser who hates freedom,independence and sovereignty so go there and waste your life I could care LESS. At least you will be practicing what you preach instead of just preaching it.

just added the word less

>>60571675
well he is finnish and those people love a strong government that does all the hard stuff for them. they'll happily be on their government mandated pride parades not noticing that the country is rotting away on every metric. the country produces nothing of value and has an extremely anti business culture and is folding under debt and has the highest unemployment in eu and the most financially illiterate people in the world making decisions, they literally swapped negative interest debt to varying interest debt, thats the level of understanding they got :D

>>60572072
Hey hold it isn't greece with the largest unemployment in the EU?

>>60572083
might have been youth unemployment but doesn't change the fact that finland has more in common with the soviet shitholes than the scandis it larps as. thanks to the great fear of debt that eu has and amazingly incompetent politicians the country is on a slow but sure way to its death. people here pointed out multiple times that the german mark would be very high valued and thats exactly because eu monetary policy is retarded with their extreme fear for debt or printing more money to bring the value down. they would rather get the investment in a factory from china or usa than use their own money to build that shit

>>60572083
No, I think Greece's is at 7.9% for the month of May. I think it's lower than Sweden's.

>>60571939
legit concerns. but irs is losing relevancy under trump. max avoid, just no evade.
health insurance depends on your state. don't worry you won't die on the street, any emergency room will take you. when the lady comes to ask you for your information, say "no hablo."
affordable dental care is probably a bigger issue.

>>60572013
honestly i would never visit those places. i would rather visit paris or bcn and get mugged.
if i were a euro i'd do a summer road trip along the california coast.

>>60572037
It isn't good for anyone at the end of the day and was a banker's scheme to turn Europe into a carbon copy of the USA and has only really turned Europe into the new USSR. If the EU wants to bring you into something it's never because it's beneficial to you, it's because it's beneficial to them and whatever happens to you is completely and utterly irrelevant.

>>60572146
I've been once to the USA
I'll sum it in short I was blue state and returned due to SJWs.
I went to a hospital with aetna insurrence(really bad people) for a splinter removal at a hospital.
Health insurrence didn't pay because I have a chronic disease which I legit wasn't treated for just only mentioned it. That got stuck with the bill.I would pay it If I ever go back to the USA but for now no.
Also I've seen reports on how people literally end up homeless due to the insurrence refusing to pay
Scary stuff.

>but irs is losing relevancy under trump. max avoid, just no evade.

Yeah IRS scares me. If you make one mistake and bam your life is ruined or at least made pure hell. Both extremely scary.
What's worse is that I've read Americans Can't even escape taxation even while living abroard due to having an american citizenship.That is just total insanity

>>60572060
It’s a big IF if USA would actually come help rest of NATO in case of a Russia attack. We’re really on our own, and that’s why we need a strong european unity and EU and euro are part of that.

>>60572209
Please get educated you show yourself to be a retard.

NATO states that if one gets attacked then everyone will join unconditionally.

So even if the USA doesn't want to help France and the UK have nukes and they have adopted the MAD strategy as well as Russia so even if Russia attacks NATO it's WW3 and the USA WILL HAVE TO JOIN LIKE IT OR NOT.
And even if the USA didn't join(which it will) Russia will severly devastated for conquering europe that it would make it worthless for them in the first place.
Now fuck off

>>60572234
Ughhhh, you subhuman piece of reddit spacing garbage. Not only is that not true as article 5 is entirely voluntary, it also doesn't specify what constitutes joining the conflict at all. Britain could send Finland a single 9mm round in the mail and call it a day.

>>60572234
It’s funny how you’re so sure of yourself despite things you say actually not being true.

>>60572245
Do tell me when has a non nato country attacked a nato member?

I'll be waiting

>>60572270
When has Russia attacked a NATO member i'll wait for an answer

>>60571497
and don't forget, for a year now they are trying to push chat control under different names, it's only a matter of time until all european messenger apps are under total surveillance, politicians are exempt of course :^)

>>60572406
I'll add more confiscating Farmer land or enforcing stupid rules on farmers forcing to them into bankruptcy.

>>60572209
We really should just let russia take you guys over

>>60569185 (OP)
German here. I was in Kindergarden at that time but based on stories from parents and friends I can tell you that you will probably get a bad exchange rate - when they switched from our old currency, the Deutsche Mark, to the Euro, shortly after your purchasing power was lower.
I advise you to keep your worth in a more stable asset for some months. If I was planning on buying a house, car or something similar - I would do that before the currency switch

>>60573404
They won’t, thanks to EU and a future euroarmy, despite retards like OP wanting to kill themself.

>>60573792
I'm still waiting for an answer to this!

>When has Russia attacked a NATO member

Until then reflect on yourself after the ownage I gave you before calling others retards jackass.

Also why are you coming back you literally said you were done with this thread.Don't go Full retard

>>60573853
Just a few years ago Russian aggression in europe was begone history. A possibility of russia attacking nato country future is a possibility, and as long as it is a possibility it needs to be prepared for unless you want to possibly end up like Ukraine.

>>60574019

That's not an answer
and my question simple.
You either name a time it happened or say never
simple.
>When has Russia attacked a NATO member

The fact that you can't do just shows you're a starved for attention retard with parent issues.
Hell you can't even be honest not just with me but with yourself.

>A possibility of russia attacking nato country future is a possibility
When has Russia attacked a NATO member?
Until I get a straight answer I'll keep asking for this.

>and as long as it is a possibility it needs to be prepared for unless you want to possibly end up like Ukraine.

if you're that worried why not vote for politicians that would want to expand finland's military might instead of relying on others?

Why don't you vote for people who want to arm Finland with Nukes, Aircraft carriers, WMD etc...?\
There I solved your worries.that you will depend on yourself and not have to worry about whether you would get help or not.
Also I do recall Poland getting sandwiched germany and soviets and yet France and the UK were supposed to help. funny how having to depend on others works out.

also this
>When has Russia attacked a NATO member?

>>60569185 (OP)
It's much stronger than the dollar, if that helps

>>60573792
That euroarmy is going to come at a cost of either your literal savings account or universal healthcare. That program is going to be phased out in 30 years

>>60574109
Theres a reason why americans despise western europeans

>>60569185 (OP)
truly bitchy and pathetic thread pretending to be a genuine request for information

>>60574940
This thread is a live reenactment of how european parliament works. Bunch of bitching and and no genuine effort to fix the issue

>>60574954
not true you kind of educated me on why fellow Bulgarians would want this with this! >>60570512
and then concluding to only 3 reasons for my Fellow Bulgarians wanting this I still think it's dumb but more less I got SOME answers and NOT even by an EUROPEAN or a the BULGARIANS that support this(which is like less than 30% I will keep saying it).
I still think there are more reasons for them to be fooled but if that's all I get I'm taking it.

>>60574940
Gee I read every reply in this thread and yet you are here solidifying my OP. Just goes to show that you're the who's disingenuous.
But by all means you can see I had a civil discussion about this with another person who I think is neutral towards this and gave decent arguments for the EURO

>>60569185 (OP)
>mutts and chinks fudding €VRO again
Check the exchange rate, brownies

>>60575135
Americans have this unique capability to point out the objective reality without being thrown into jail for violent speech. It was the americans that fostered and promoted the idea of a unified europe. If that wasn't the case they wouldve done it before WW2.

without the support of americans, europeans would go back to committing mass genocides and murdering each other. Without NATO the EU would be nothing. Without american lend lease or the marshall plan after ww2 the entire european continent would look like rural romania.

You kind of see why americans despise western europeans for their conceited attitudes and terrible outlook on the world. Even after the fall of the soviet union, they still want to go back to authoritarianism and totalitarianism.

They are fragile and weak

>>60569185 (OP)
Only good thing about it is the fact that you can trade it for memes

https://dexscreener.com/solana/79ptc9uswhxzt9aawwrax95nwg1u6tqtqq2dnmgukzvt

>>60575308
idk is peace and harmony a lot to ask.
Anyway you said it yourself that the EU is made by Americans or more precisely by the bohemian grove.A youtube called Mark Dice made a video about it long ago sadly I lost the video if you know what I'm talking about can you please provide the leaked documents mentioning the EU and the eurozone in the Bohemian grove or maybe Mark Dice's video on the subject that is if you understand what I'm talking about.

>>60575315
I repeat again, the european union is just three homosexuals running a lemonade stand giving away free lemonade to muslims

>>60575329
Its a real video, ive seen it before with alex jones infilatrating it. The CIA is pretty much the sword they elites wield worldwide and causes mass disruption to countless countries.

The CIA also created a social network called zunzuneo that was targetted to the cuban people to have them overthrow their cuban government.

>>60575341
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZunZuneo

>>60575341
No i'm not talking about Alex Jones infiltrating the grove.
There was a short 10-15 min video made by Mark Dice which goes in debt about the grove about how it created the EU and the eurozone and wanted and still wants to make a global currency and government.

>>60575350
Ill have to google it then

>>60575355
GL with that because google censors and shadowbans alot.

>>60575360
It could make sense. Why else would they form a union?

>>60575365
Also in the bohemian Grove the Manhattan Project was born. Literally there.
Also Mark Dice in one of his vids showed an actual writing by George Washington in which letter he discussed on how the Illuminati have failed to quash the 1776 american independence or something like that idk I'm looking for those 2 videos since I lost them.

>>60575365
yo if you're still here friend I found it!
and my bad turns out it wasn't the bohemeian grove it was the billderberg group

Here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n80w7gtZrGw&t=1s

>>60575605
Ghadaffi called it decades ago

https://youtube.com/shorts/RotPY77UitM?si=2NnyWcuDWSpYTOh8

>>60575605
So the EU is an american psyop meant to exhibit western control on foreign countries

Im so proud of our american heritage. Saying that the US doesnt run the world from europeans is hilarious when the concept of european unification was an american backed expirement.

>>60575651
I mean in a way yeah it's good but the thing is it's not the American Government doing it. But secret societies that have infiltred your government ours too sadly.
And I doubt they wish the best for us even if we're in different countries and and ocean away from each other

>>60575641
kinda very complicated stuff.

>>60575668
It goes all the way back to the rockellers, carnegie, jp morgan, really all americans back in the late 1800s and early 1900s. As a preface they were THE tycoons you see in pop culture today. The top hats and monocles kind of imagery. They were the wealthiest individuals to ever exist in american history. Not necessarily coming from secret society blood but they created a lot of what you see in the modern world.

They had practiced this for 60+ years and their descendants laid out the ground work for a lot of problems you see in modern times.

>>60575687
I mean yeah true but But a lot of stuff originated in the Bohemian Grove, Billderberg and other societies.
Like the manhattan project originated in the Bohemian Grove so did the UN the EU and it's currency in Billderberg.
They have even talked about a 1 world government with a single currency.

I mean it's nice to love your country(USA or Bulgaria) but these stuff disturb me.

if anything here's a good question how will these socities get Russia,China,Israel and the Arabs to make a 1 wolrd government and a currency?
Like I doubt it would be done peacefully.

>>60575715
>Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.

Alot of it is planned

David Rockefeller - Wikipedia https://share.google/kIuxeVF0IljORslxZ

>>60575715
>They have even talked about a 1 world government with a single currency.
The euro was the original goal of a global currency but when that failed they fell back to the USD when they realized that the military is all thats needed to back up their currency. Thats what leads me to believe that bitcoin is a subversive currency meant to (A) better track their users (B) exhibit more control over how its used (C) debase every other currency worldwide from their own
>if anything here's a good question how will these socities get Russia,China,Israel and the Arabs to make a 1 wolrd government and a currency?
It seems like people took the bait with bitcoin because you see china and russia settling oil trades in bitcoin. Bitcoin is mathematically sound and requires an unrealistic breakthrough in quantum computing to break it. In practice bitcoin is genuinely a better currency to use in terms of remittance and settlements compared to traditional railways. Bitcoin also defeats the purpose of a central european currency due to ease of use and centralized control.

>>60575651
Jesus christ burgers and anti-eu rednecks keep on being retards. Fucking Napoleon dreamed of a unified europe (Hitler too). It isn’t an american idea no matter how much you mutts want to cope.

>>60576352
Both attempts failed retard. The US is given credit for fostering the foundation of the EU

>>60576352
So more of the fact that europeans are so incompetent at doing such a thing

Fucking western europeans never seem to get it or understand. Without american help, they would just be homosexuals living under rocks that were formally houses.

Kek yuros

>>60569185 (OP)

Bulgarian here, i dont fucking know. There is so much FUD on either side and it seems like a complicated topic that is hard for me to form any opinion on. And it seems like the government is hellbent on doing it anyway, so it's probably going to happen no matter what. Thanks for coming to my TED talk

>>60576512
What's worse is that we can't have a civil discussion on the topic without getting called a russophile,insulted,laughed at or getting wished death in return(sadly the pro levs also do it....which isn't helping). You're not the only Bulgarian here there were others and they solidified the reason for this post to exist....
but I did get an idea of why our fellow Bulgarians would want it
>The euro makes people richer due to supposed bigger budgets for eurozone members while those outside of the eurozone have smaller budgets
>Supposedly if one nation defaults e.g greece you will get bailed out supposedly.
>Supposedly it will stop corruption due to member states having to show receipts of where the money has gone or something

I only managed to get only 3 reasons as to why our fellow citizens would want it. And it's stupid,because basically you rely on everyone being an angel which is not the case. This thing will only work in a Utopia but not in the real world.

These reasons(I doubt it's only 3 reasons) pale in comparison to the reasons why the EURO shouldn't be adopted.

>If the Euro will stop Corruption then why are corrupt people like Borisov,Dogan and peevski for it?
>We will lose our monetary sovereignty
>The euro is centralization and leads to communism and there are a lot of people who have pointed out that eu is like the former soviet union
>If the euro fails we can tie our currency to another currency like the British pound or the American Dollar or maybe to precious metal like gold.
>the lev is part of history of our country
>higher national debt
>Loss of control on our yearly budget

I can list more but it's too long for this post.
Basically not a good idea to adopt the euro

>>60576352
Bein called a redneck from inferior scum like you is actually a compliment also still waiting on answer for this

>When has Russia attacked a NATO member?

Until then go shove hamsters up your rectum