Thread 60605097

>You won the lottery
Lump sum or Annuity?

>>60605097 (OP)
I prefer annuity although there's a case for lump sum and then you start further ahead if you were to build an invest portfolio off of it. You would pay more in taxes, though. It's a trade off.

I think the annuity performs worse when taking inflation + taxes into account, vs dumping the lump sum into an ETF

>>60605097 (OP)
>trusting them to deliver an annuity
take the cash, fool

>>60605097 (OP)
>>60605153
>>60605162
>>60605163

99% of all people who ever acquired a million have lost it within a few years half the time. If you take the lump sum chances are you are gonna be poor again or worse: dead.

Just let them manage it for you. They have years of experience and you dont need more than $10k a month anyway

>>60605171

The OP didn't ask "what should a 20th percentile individual do" (the usual lottery winner), they asked about me, a highly patient investor who already has a sizeable amount in a brokerage account.

>>60605184
You gamble on funny internet tokens retard, you are on the same side of the curve.

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump sum all in bitcoin.

>>60605162
Depends on how much you win and how much you can access to reduce your taxes. Ten million? Take it up front, pay the taxes and set yourself up for life. One million? Take the 50k/yr and continue living normally while maxing out every tax advantaged account possible.

>>60605191

No need to project, we aren't all here for the shitcoins.

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump sum.
Who the fuck still thinks civilization is gonna last 29 more years?

>>60605171
Those retards spend it on cars, bitches, condos, drugs, everything hedonistic they can think of. If you make your decisions based on statistics, then you're just a statistic.

are those actually the options for lottery payouts or is this for something else?
is the missing 40% for tax withholding, or just because fuck you?
the lottery meme is already a scam but thats fucking crazy
>29 years for a 66% increase

Depends on where you see interest rates going, if you see them going up take the lump sum, if you see them going down take the annuity and then loan against it.

>>60605523
Sorry opposite way around, if you see rates falling take the lump sum, if you see rates going up take the annuity.

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump
What if I die?

>>60605530
Fuck rates I'll make up more than i lose in a taxes with lump sum with one btc cycle let alone 29 years

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump sum, and into Bitcoin. Annuities are for coffin-dodgers

>>60605171
yeah but you're talking to people who choose to post on a finance forum in their spare time right now

Lump sump and then invest the money elsewhere. I'm not going to get passive income if the lotto jew holds my money hostage

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump sum quite obviously. Never knew they just keep 40% if you pick that option though wtf? Still if you ran thr DCF I'm sure lump sum still comes out worth more. 29 years wtf

>>60605171
still better to lose it yourself then let others lose it for you
the dollar shitcoin is gonna rug one way or the other
for the love of god get the lumpsum and put at least half into anti fiat assets

>>60605097 (OP)
lump. don't be a retard

>>60605751
>finance forum
gambling forum ftfy

>>60605191
I noticed he never mentioned anything about what he invests in, which makes you an emotional, reflexive, angry retard (a woman or tranny)

>>60605097 (OP)
lump sum, put a few mil in a target date fund, spend the rest on whatever I feel like since i'd have officially made it at that point.

>>60605097 (OP)
Only a fool gets annuity

>>60605787
>Never knew they just keep 40% if you pick that option though wtf?
the whole point of lotteries is to generate revenue for government programs by scamming gambling retards.

>>60605153
Low IQ
>>60605162
Correct
>>60605171
Reality is even if you didn't trust your own impulsiveness you could take the lump sum and have it placed in a trust and managed for you, invested to outperform the lottery's shitty management. You'd also be the beneficiary, so the trustee would keep you from blowing all your money

>>60605097 (OP)
>Lump sum or Annuity
Have 100% of your money in 30 years versus
Have 450% of your money in 30 years (gold, stocks)

>>60605415
It's because fuck you. Easier for the lottery to pay over time, so to get lump sum you get a penalty. You still pay taxes after.

>>60605097 (OP)
Obviously lump sum. Into BTC with it - end of all your worries.

I think the entirety of /biz/ misunderstands how taxes work. Borrowing against the current value of the annuity option is tax advantaged compared to taking the lump sum.

>>60606611
>Bitcoin crashes 50% the day after

>>60605097 (OP)
LOTTERY?? LINK JUST BROKE THRU $15 LIKE IT WAS NOTHIN!!!! I WILL HIT THE LOTTERY SOON AS IT HITS ATH!!!! BEEN WAITING A LOOOOOONG TIME FOR THIS BOYZ!!!!

>>60606849
Even if so. If you are a lottery winner (as per OP's suggestion) you want to put that money anywhere but a bank account. Tell me another better way long term to store it, than BTC.
Hint: there ain't one.

>>60606809
This. Debt is not taxed.

>>60606862
Stocks or t-bills
Not as much potential return, but basically zero risk. You could also live just fine off if dividends

>>60606809
Yes but there's the delta of taxes vs higher yields through better management. Also you could simply take the lump sum, invest it and then borrow against it. Because the kicker here is that the annuity through the lottery pays shit vs handing the lump sum to an actual annuity company.

>>60605171
>you will be paid $500,000 a year forever
>people in power did something, now that recurring $500k is worth $100,000 :DDDDDDD
Bitcoin doesnt have this problem.

>>60606893
>Bitcoin returns to it's real value of $0
Oof

>>60606871
>Stocks or t-bills
Yeah but taking it lump will still see a 40% loss immediately. So you're waiting over 10 years to just get to the face value of your winning. Take annuity and just stack it as you go if you plan to do this.

>>60605097 (OP)
Since I live in Europe I take the lump sum which awards me 100% of the prize money tax free. And yes I did have breakfast this morning.

>>60606871
Sure. But BTC will outperform it, making you richer. And in the year 2025 it is somewhat safe to say that Bitcoin is not a risky asset. At least I'd say so.

>>60606891
I don’t think you understand. If you take the annuity you can structure to borrow against its net present value and not pay taxes on that, giving you more money to invest. The only downside is if rates go up a lot reducing its net present value and margin calling you essentially.

>>60606906
You're wrong
You make millions more with lump sum

>>60606906
>>60606931


>>60606922
>Ha, this guy doesn't believe tulips are worth millions of dollars

>>60606931
>10%
There's t-bills with a yield of 10%?

>>60606938
I said stocks or t-bills. Even with a lower return rate lump sum wins

>>60605171
Gay. Don't post this shit.

>>60606944
>Even with a lower return rate lump sum wins
It doesn't it's circa 4% for t-bills. And historical returns for SPY are nowhere close to what we've gotten the last 5 years.

>>60606936
tulip mania lasted 2-4 years, not 20.
I take no issue with retards like you getting sidelined however.

>>60605171
T. Failed the marshmallow test as a kid

>>60607002
cope, bitcoin is going to die dude, sorry.
The high transaction fees and transaction time make wide spread adoption impossible. Maybe they'll be some other crypto that actually takes over, but it's not bitcoin

>>60605329
>Those retards spend it on cars, bitches, condos, drugs, everything hedonistic they can think of.
Primary cause of bankruptcy among lotto winners is failed business ventures and buying property for relatives. At least in my country.

I'd be willing to bet those business ventures are half baked ideas from family members too.

>>60607027
>cope, bitcoin is going to die dude, sorry.
Dude you thought a 10% annual return was a realistic ROI. Your opinions are retarded.

>>60607027
man it's so weird there isn't like US treasury crypto coin you know that would be great that would kind of be a big deal hey and maybe they'd put it satellites to secure satellite internet everywhere so they can fly unhackable AI powered drones to murder people anywhere or like use it for the FDA for recalling expired food or some sort of public health hazard like supply chain at boeing or maybe you could use the crypto to control what people think is REAL or FAKE like if you bought tiktok and used it as a propaganda platform and then used some crypto so you can what's just AI bullshit or actually real and then 55,000 holocaust testimonies on it too why not let's back up all those interviews so NO ONE will question the holocaust in the future. yep. shame that doesn't exist.

Simple math: Lump sum is about half the advertised annuity option, and then you’ll pay about 37-40% in taxes. So given a jackpot of 50mm you’ll walk away with about 15-16mm in the lump sum option. Meanwhile the net present value of the annuity for the same jackpot is 21.5mm given the 5% escalating payments. So you take the annuity, borrow for 21mm lets say, and gain 6 million dollars more to invest than if you took the lump sum.

>>60607064
Did you factor taxes owed on the annuity as well? Can you really borrow on a gambling winnings annuity?

>>60607120
You don’t owe taxes on borrowed money, you’ll pay as you get annuity payments. If money up front is all that matters you should make more than enough from investing your borrowed amount to make the tax payments on the annuity payments.

You can borrow against lottery annuities, there’s apparently many funds that will do it, and you may get better rates even over what the net value may suggest, if the interest rate is low at the time.

>>60607027
See >>60607040
Where did you find a long-term investment paying 10% yield whilst retaining face value/appreciating at 10% YOY + monetary inflation? Or did you just see dave ramtard talk about index funds' average annual growth and assume that's your take home like a stupid nigger? Jews like me will assrape you in finance with your own money, and you'll tip me for the service :^)
>The high transaction fees and transaction time make wide spread adoption impossible
Lighting or some other L1/L2 will make it perfect, and even if that were to fail for literally any reason, TradFi will offer service in exchange for custody. Your BTC being managed by kikes is still preferable to having your Dollars managed by kikes.
"Capital Reserve Asset" or "Currency", doesn't matter (in terms of finance anyway). Number just go up forever.
>Maybe they'll be some other crypto that actually takes over, but it's not bitcoin
Kek'd

>>60607028
>failed business ventures
>OMG I, a 38 year old garbageman always wanted to start my own plumbing company! I'll just buy a cheap already running company and have it print money!
>wtf where did all my money go

>>60605751
>finance forum
This is a Mongolian yak milk fermenting imageboard. I hope you're not taking financial advice from here are you anon?

>>60607178
Or possibly that.

>>60605097 (OP)
>annuity
>hi, I owe you millions of dollars and have a history of not paying people. could I just give you a little bit of it every month for the next 30 years?

>>60605097 (OP)
anonymous LLC in non tax state, 501(c)(3) "donate" the maximum allowable amount from the "pre-tax" amount. Live and travel (for the purpose of research) and make "donations" of varying amounts in countries that you visit.

Only a fool takes the annuity

>>60607436
The 40% penalty isn't tax.

Also that is the most onvious tax fraud you could pull.

>>60605415
It's 66% but it's basically a risk free 66%. On a very big jackpot, I honestly think that's the smartest thing, unless you're a very sophisticated investor. You don't have to worry about market downturns, you don't have to worry about liquidity, you don't have to worry about another tech bubble popping. If you think you can just put it on S&P500 or whatever and coast, then you can do that with the annual payments, which combined with the 66% increase should still yield competitive returns on anything but a perfectly timed 30 year golden bull market.

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump sum obviously so you can start growing it immediately

>>60607040
retard

Annuity because its the less popular choice, simple as

>>60609596
It was 7% average until 2008 mega printing started

>>60605097 (OP)
annuity. post nigger on linked with my real name the second it hits my bank accounts.

>>60605572
>yeah but you're talking to people who choose to post on a finance forum in their spare time right now
>finance forum

Anon, this is a gambling enthusiasts' online forum at best, or an image board full of retards and niggers at worst. And it fluctuates between the two regularly

>>60605171
>>60605329
>>60607028
>Coworker got lightly burned by acid at work
>Settlement check of 1.5 million

Fast forward one month
>Starts talking about how he's going to start a BBQ business
>Says he came up with a list of things he needed to buy to get it started
>New Hummer EV3X Omega Limited
>House addition, new garage, new out building for his BBQ business
>Used LBZ Duramax + massive used BBQ trailer
>Took his new girlfriend on a vacation to Hawaii

He's now stressing out as he isn't sure he's going to have enough money left to start his BBQ business.

I recommended he just dump it all into BTC when he got his check 6 months ago.
>That's so stupid anon, I'll make more if I start a BBQ business

>>60609684
how do you even sue for a workplace injury and win? 99% of the time it settles for like $10k, the lawyer takes 30%, and you get fired from your job.

>>60605097 (OP)
with 10% p.a. in the equity market you get over 15x your investment after 29 years. even with 5% you still get over 4x. only retards would pick the annuity.

>>60605097 (OP)
Lump sum, obviously.
Throwing half into ETFs and half into bonds will give you a much greater yield with a lower chance of (you) getting utterly raped.

>>60606611
Dumping your lottery winnings into crypto is perhaps the most retarded thing you could possible do. You already fucking won, retard. Stop doubling down. Exit the casino.

At least the 60iq dumb fucks that buy hookers and blow enjoy the money while they have it.

>>60605171
that's because they got gatherer brains not hunter brains

>>60606871
>but basically zero risk
people really dont understand counter party risk
stocks are intrinsically not zero risk for starters so i'll generously assume you meant a broad index like the ndx here
even then its impossible nowadays to actually own stocks or bonds for that matter outright, you will hold it through at least 2 intermediaries
these are structured as corporates with the explicitly stated policy of fucking you over and bailing you in when a sufficiently large shock occurs to their market operations

i just do not understand how people on here a crypto forum of a decade old still dont understand why bitcoin
protip it isnt about numba gongo, its about btc being the perfect asset

>>60609963
Counterparty risk isn’t applicable to stocks it’s applicable only to derivatives where there is risk of your structured payout not happening due to the counterparty going broke. There is no guaranteed structured payout on equity and settlement occurs instantaneously thus no counterparty risk. Additionally due to the way that hard(er) assets are considered in bankruptcy proceedings there is not the same debtor tranche structure, so it doesn’t matter really that other entities hold your assets.

Cheap solutions > secure solutions, and until capitalism and the planet starts seriously failing big time that will continue, at least for consumers, of which most of the market consumes assets.

>>60609998
>so it doesn’t matter really that other entities hold your assets
said countless chumps before you right before losing everything
if you truly belief this then no hope ngmi

>>60609684
so let me get this correct your coworker didnt want to start a business making and selling bbq's, or a business that can scale without additional time constraints on him the owner
but rather thinks its a profitable venture to buy a bbq trailer and drive around wherever and sell a couple of wings to passerby's thus being severely constraint in your potential max income stream
some people really dont understand money

>>60605097 (OP)
Winning the lottery here means not getting taxed and you get financial advice. "Lump sum" is also 100% as it's the only option. Winners are also anonymous to the public unless you allow them to name drop you.
>>60605171
Winners like people, are retarded. If you even have a fraction of a brain cell, you know to shut the fuck up and chill. Even to your closest family and friends. Money fries the brain of people, making them a problem.

>>60610049
Hard assets got paid out/reinstated in the Lehman prime brokerage settlement very very quickly, any uncleared derivatives with Lehman as the counterparty did not which is where you hear finance people bitch and moan about bankruptcy structuring so much from and consider derivatives unsafe. Read up.

>>60610424
>Lehman prime brokerage settlement
16 years ago, surely the rules havent been changed since and surely the rules will never change
right anon

>>60605097 (OP)
This is a really shitty lottery, must be in the US where it's legal to mislead consumers about how big the jackpot is. Here in Bongland if you win the lottery then you win the amount advertised, lump sum, no taxes payable.

>>60610424
In 2008 my parents saw the news about Lehman being on the verge of collapse, so they told their broker to pull all of their money out of the stock market. Acting responsibly and in their clients' best interest the broker immediately stuck it into a Lehman account for safekeeping. They got their money back eventually, plus some interest, but it took years and years.

>>60610525
The rules have certainly changed, in favor of hard asset holders. Required segregated accounts are a thing now certainly.

>>60610551
Without knowing what your parents were holding, I would say that many documents are very clear that accounts without any commingled settlement claims against Lehman that would have been wrapped up in their debtors had much easier times getting their money back. I’m not arguing that it’s better than self custodial crypto or anything for reclaiming assets, I’m arguing that it’s good enough at the incredibly cheap price point of nearly free, so much so that trillion dollar organizations custody their assets this way.

>>60605171
People with an IQ above 110 already calculated the odds and concluded that participating is a waste of money, so lottery winners are a pre selected bunch of retards.

>>60607637
But you do have to worry about inflation. Think about how much more a dollar bought 30 years ago.

>>60605097 (OP)
always lump sum

>>60606862
Gold and property.

>>60606871
>t bills
Anon, outside of the USA most treasuries are hardly beating inflation nowadays. And why would anyone buy US treasuries these days? So no. Investing in treasuries is retarded, you wont even beat inflation and if you buy US or Japan you risk getting Argentina'd and not getting paid back at all.

>>60605097 (OP)
Always lump sum.
There was a case years ago where someone chose the annuity and after a few years, the state government just stopped paying the person to save money.

>>60610066
"ill just start a business" is one of the most common ways that stupid people blow their life savings, or worse, the life savings of their friends and family
I have a cousin who blew $120K trying to start a trucking company, somehow the truck he owned just kept breaking down until he was out of money, the worst part is he borrowed all the money from his mom and as soon as she stopped giving him more cash, his business experiment ended.
I know another guy who blew $50K+ of his own savings trying to manufacture and sell candles online. Why did he think he can sell candles when there are already a million cheap ones on Amazon? His only reasoning was "I like candles so I want to sell candles"