Thread 60798401

Welcome to the /XMR/ Monero General, dedicated to the discussion of the world's most widely adopted privacy coin.

Monero payments are anonymous, low-fee by design and fully fungible, meaning users can send XMR globally without issue and receive XMR without having to worry about tainted coins. Battle-tested privacy tech (Ring Signatures, Stealth Addresses and RingCT) ensures that critical TX data cannot be gleaned from the Monero blockchain. Thus by default, the TX history of all Monero users is kept hidden from the prying eyes of adversaries, with TXs being optionally transparent via the aid of a view key.

Monero algorithmically ensures low TX fees by employing a dynamic (elastic) block size that can "stretch" to easily accommodate sudden TX spikes.

Monero's bespoke mining algorithm, RandomX, is optimized for devices using general-purpose CPUs e.g. desktops, laptops, smartphones, tablets, keeping the barrier to entry low and ASICs out of the equation.

Monero's tail emission - 0.6 XMR every block forever - financially incentives for-profit miners to keep mining, helping boost long-term network security. This constant linear inflation asymptotically trends to zero and is offset somewhat by a steady rate of coin loss.

Monero has thus far proven to be the only altcoin capable of overcoming BTC's network effect by driving it out of the darknet economy BTC dominated for over 10 years. Monero is now also starting to overtake BTC in clearnet commerce as well. See below.

If you still have questions, feel free to ask and a MoneroChad will be with you shortly.


XMR Redpill: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=wq6w03E2DS4

XMR Resources: https://libereco.xyz/resources/

XMR Stats: moneroj.net

USE XMR: https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/

OFFICIAL WEBSITE - getmonero.org

WHERE TO BUY XMR: https://i.imgur.com/XdppsQ7.png
Crypto ATMs: see kycnot.me

>MINING
archive.is/TWOah

HOW TO STORE MONERO?

>Desktop
Official GUI/CLI
Featherwallet

>Mobile
IOS: Cakewallet
Android: Monerujo

PREVIOUS THREAD: >>60790647

START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL
START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL

P2Pool combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully control your Monero node and what it mines, but you get frequent payouts like on a regular pool.

P2Pool has no central server that can be shut down/blocked because it uses a separate blockchain to merge mine with Monero. There's no pool admin that can control what your hashrate is used for or decide who can mine on the pool and who can't. It's permissionless!

Decentralized pool mining (P2Pool) is pretty much the ultimate way to secure a PoW coin against 51% attacks. Once P2Pool reaches & maintains 51%+ of the total network hashrate, Monero will be essentially invulnerable to such attacks.

Although many inexperienced miners think that bigger pools give better profits, this is absolutely NOT the case. Your profits in the long run depend ONLY on your hashrate, NOT on the pool's hashrate.


>YOU CAN NOW MINE IN P2POOL FASTER & EASIER THAN EVER BEFORE WITH THE GUPAX GUI. USES TRUSTED REMOTE NODES BY DEFAULT!!!!

1. Download the *bundled* version of Gupax for your OS here: https://gupax.io/downloads/
2. Extract somewhere (Desktop, Documents, etc)
3. Launch Gupax
4. Input your Monero address in the [P2Pool] tab. USE A SEPARATE MINING-ONLY WALLET!
5. Select a Community Monero Node that you trust, although you can and should run your own node if possible.
6. Start P2Pool
7. Start XMRig

VIDEO GUIDE: https://gupax.io/guide/

You are now mining to your own instance of P2Pool, welcome to the world of decentralized peer-to-peer mining!

>NOTE THAT DUE TO BOTNET SHENANIGANS XMRIG IS AUTO-FLAGGED AS MALWARE BY MOST ANTI-VIRUSES, SO DON'T FREAK OUT!!!


OLD GUIDE FOR P2POOL MINING FROM THE MONERO GUI WALLET: https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/eecbe

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining
https://web.xmrpool.eu/xmr-monero-easy-mining-guide.html
https://monero.hashvault.pro/en/getting-started
https://www.supportxmr.com

***** DISCLAIMER *****

The creator of this thread actively discourages holding Monero. We, the broader community of Monero, do not agree with him. Buying and holding Monero is a completely legitimate way to participate in the protocol, and we encourage you to save your wealth in XMR.

XMR is THE best store of value in the world. Not only is it highly scarce, it is entirely untraceable by any third party. No other store of value, including Bitcoin, provides the ability to anonymously hold your wealth anywhere in the world. Armed with only your seed phrase, you can literally take your private bank account anywhere without the consent or permission of anyone. It is like having an invisible stockpile of gold only you know about.

Privacy will be increasingly rare in the coming years, but the supply of Monero will barely increase. Many people understand that Monero represents the most undervalued asset in the world.

*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****


Learn more about Monero's key features and excellent future prospects, have some common misconceptions dispelled and discover the cold hard facts about Bitcoin, Zcash and PirateChain. Also featured is a noob-friendly buying, storage and wallet guide.


>Monero: it's what new Bitcoin users think they bought. Every feature, explained
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org


>Why Monero is so untraceable: a rundown of the powerful stealth tech Monero utilizes
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroIsUntraceable


>The Writing on the Wall: Monero replacing Bitcoin as the new standard
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroReplacingBitcoin


>Breaking News: no, Monero still isn't traceable
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD


>Vaporware: why nobody is worried about CipherTrace's magic crystal ball
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#CipherTraceFail


>Very Clever Math: how we can verify that the XMR supply isn't being inflated
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#MuhInflationBug


>Pssst, wanna buy some Monero? Follow these simple how-to guides
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BuyAndStoreMonero


>Bitcoin: The Original Non-Fungible Token
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BitcoinBlackpill


>Why Monero is Better than Zcash: the "privacy coin" criminals won't touch
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#ZcashBlackpill


>The Lowdown on PirateChain: why this Zcash clone is considered a scam
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#PirateChainBlackpill


>LATEST UPDATES

- added Proof-of-Stake update to Zcash Blackpill
- added list of available desktop/mobile wallets
- expanded all sections with more relevant info, graphics & videos
- added easily linkable headers and sub-headers (link icon to the far right)
- added a new section about traceability FUD

***ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMER***

The creator of this thread has been credibly accused of being a federal agent. He actively pushes all potential holders of Monero away unless they agree with only using XMR in bartering scenarios. He will use straw manning tactics against anyone who advocates for saving their wealth in XMR. Anyone suggesting that Monero can preserve and hide their wealth will be called a "grifter", "moonfag", or any of several other slurs intended to end the conversation.

These tactics support the state apparatus directly by denying Monero the notoriety it deserves. Widespread use of Monero, especially through wealth preservation, starves the state of key financial information and tax farming. Pretending there is only one "legitimate" use of Monero (bake sales at Porcfest) while shunning any other uses foments fake division, a favorite strategy of the intelligence community.

Remember that many authors (W. Rees-Mogg, The Sovereign Individual) predict that states will get increasingly "nasty" as private currencies threaten their power of surveillance. The OP has strategically installed himself as the self-appointed "leader" of Monero on this board, but has no such authority to tell you how to use the best currency ever invented.

Never forget what this is ultimately all about. Don't be a HODLtard.

https://archive.is/YBnPG
https://freedomcells.org/

>Help grow the circular Monero economy: buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!

https://monerica.com/
https://xmrbazaar.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/
https://kycnot.me/?t=service&q=&xmr=on

>Shop on Amazon with XMR!
https://monezon.com
https://peershop.app

>Live off XMR with Cake Pay (now available in 140+ countries!)
https://cakepay.com/

>or with CoinCards
https://coincards.com/


>Monero stickers for guerilla marketing
http://monerosupplies.com/

>Anonymous burner phone numbers
https://silent.link/

>Monero-only VPS hosting
https://kyun.host/

>Win XMR!
https://monero.vegas/


Say buh-bye to Bitcoin and support the growing number of Monero-only darknet markets/vendors.

# = recently launched, exercise caution

>Alias Market #
>Asur Market
>Babylon #
>Calypso #
>Candy Haven #
>Chimera Market
>Cloud Market
>Cypher Market
>Dark Matter
>DrugHub #
>DrugTown #
>Drugula #
>FilthyFellas
>Gofish Market #
>Gramazon #
>Hectate Market #
>Mercury Market #
>Pygmalion's Refuge
>Retro Market
>Smackers
>Sonanza Market #
>Squid Market
>SuperMarket #
>Tribe Seuss
>Whales Market #
>Wizard's Palace #
>World Trade Center #
Links: https://pastebin.com/raw/fF95wTNi


Anonymously exchange BTC for XMR using a reputable darknet service

>Infinity Project
https://pastebin.com/raw/75mVpfED

or a reputable clearnet service

https://trocador.app/en/ | I2P: http://trocador.i2p/en/
https://xmrswap.me
https://unstoppableswap.net
http://basicswapdex.com


>Want to support further development?
https://ccs.getmonero.org/donate/
https://monerofund.org/

>Join a Monero Workgroup and (potentially) earn XMR!!!
https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/

>Want more Monero-chan?
https://www.monerochan.art/

QUBIC IS LYING
>QUBIC IS LYING
QUBIC IS LYING
>QUBIC IS LYING

They do not have over 50% of the network's hashrate. Their entire attack plan is to convince miners that they *are* capable of pulling off a 51% attack, and to use the threat of lost profits to make miners switch from other pools to theirs. If they are successful in this disinformation campaign, they might convince enough miners to switch so that they do actually have over 50% hashrate. Then, they actually could pull off a 51% attack.

In reality, qubic had roughly 35-40% of the network's hashrate at its height. At the time of writing, it has actually declined to about 30%, but that's not the point. That's still a lot, but it's not nearly enough to do a 51% attack. As of right now, they'd need to increase their hashrate by 50% or more in order to be capable of a 51% attack.

Qubic was using a technique called selfish mining, which is basically a technique that temporarily hides your mined blocks from the rest of the network in order to gain a competitive advantage. Using this strategy, you can mine a lot higher percentage of blocks than you could by mining fairly. This is how they were able to mine the majority of blocks for a period during their previous "mining marathon" despite not having the majority of the network's hashrate. Here is a more detailed explanation: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1311.0243

According to MiningPoolStats and XMRWatch, at the time of Qubic supposedly surpassing 50% of the network's hashrate, all of the known non-Qubic monero pools have a combined hashrate of about 4 GH/s. You can verify this, though it may take some time, by manually adding up each pool's hashrate. In contrast, per Jetskipool and QubicDesciple, Qubic had about 2.5 GH/s. Meaning that Qubic had roughly 38% of the network's total hashpower (~6.5 GH/s) at that time. Even with a minority of hashrate, selfish mining still allows them way more blocks than expected, especially when they get lucky (picrel).

>>60798433
>Don't be a HODLtard.
Fuck you faggot get rid of this reference

QUBIC IS LYING
>QUBIC IS LYING
QUBIC IS LYING
>QUBIC IS LYING

As for why sites like Jetskipool were showing >50% network share at that time, their calculated total network hashrate (less than 5 GH/s) was inaccurate for two reasons.

First, that total is a moving average, and takes time to adjust when they turned their miners back on, meaning that the estimate was much lower (and their percentage much higher) than it actually was.

Secondly, and more importantly, due to selfish mining, a lot of both Qubic and non-Qubic blocks were never included in the blockchain due to failed or successful selfish mining incidents, respectively. Since they were never included in the blockchain, these blocks' work is not added to the total estimated network hashrate, again making their share of the network's total hashrate appear much higher than it actually was.

The Qubic devs are aware of these factors, but their attack relies on people not knowing this. Sites like these are what they use to lie. It's all part of their scare tactic.

Don't fall for it.

>>60798443
I often wonder whether Monerochan is more orange cream soda or pumpkin spice-coded.

Are you done with your spamwall posts, OP? OK:

In the previous thread, I think I laid down some good arguments why SELFLESS mining doesn't make sense and is not sustainable.

Here, I will be posting some links to the messages I posted on that thread. Discuss it or not, I just want to get them reach a few more people still frequenting these threads even though the OP is completely delusional on his Monero-thesis.

Anyways, here were my messages:

>>60795505
>>60795523
>>60795527
>>60795564
>>60795573
>>60795578
>>60795582
>>60795613
>>60795636
>>60795687
>>60795696
>>60796966
>>60797039
>>60797810
>>60797877
>>60798061
>>60798117
>>60798128
>>60798390

WHY DON'T THE DEVS JUST RAISE THE FUCKING FEES TO MAKE MONERO MINING MORE PROFITABLE???

SO MANY MORE PEOPLE WOULD MINE!!

MOST MONERO USERS WOULD BE HAPPY TO PAY MORE FEES IN ORDER TO KEEP MONERO ALIVE BECAUSE IT'S SO FUCKING USEFUL!!!

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHRRRGGGGGGG

>>60798461
I'm thinking orange but I'd drink her juice either way.

>>60798401 (OP)
I evade taxes using Bitcoin. Buy Bitcoin, conjoin, wait, buy gift cards, then use the money I saved on groceries and hardware to buy more Bitcoin from a new exchange. Monero can't do this because it doesn't have enough gains to make it worthwhile.

>>60798472
Because no one looks before they hit send. Priority tiers need to be disabled on all wallets and everyone needs to just pay the highest rate, which is still less than $1.

>>60798507
>I evade taxes using Bitcoin. Buy Bitcoin, conjoin, wait, buy gift cards, then use the money I saved on groceries and hardware to buy more Bitcoin from a new exchange. Monero can't do this because it doesn't have enough gains to make it worthwhile.

How nice of the govt to let you have all that.

>>60798507
>coinjoin
Doubt. Don't all exchanges/gift card sellers reject coinjoined coins?

>>60798472
this.
rather than asking normies to spend money and time and effort and a non-zero level of technical knowledge (and this is all assuming they even own a pc in the first place, which many do not) to mine at a loss to protect the network, why not instead ask the normie xmr holder to simply pay a slightly higher but still reasonable transaction fee to support the network and incentivize people who do want to mine (and who can) to do so?
I believe the average xmr user would be willing to pay for anonymity. you just have to make it easy for them to do so (by simply using the network).

>>60798545
>How nice of the govt to let you have all that.
He made a good point in the previous thread tho: >>60798251

>>60798545
The feds aren't as nearly as competent as you think. You give them a clean paper trail of cash going into and out of an exchange then they're happy. They're not going to ask "well what if this cash is actually four hops downstream of money laundering through home renovations over the span of 5 years". Maybe it's different in burgerland but in the free world (everywhere else) it's easy as shit.

>>60798555
Buttrefill has been taking my conjoined coins for years. Maybe go one or two hops to a new address first if you're paranoid, but they've never cared for me.

>>60798555
how retarded are you? even if they rejected those (which they don't), what's stopping you from exchanging coinjoined crypto into ANOTHER crypto and sending that to an exchange?

>>60798561
>>60798566
>>60798573

lol bet the farm on snitchcoins dominating the counter-economy then. Bye!

>>60798561
I use USDT on Tron all the time too. Our democracy loving Ukrainian allies are willing to sell all kinds of shit for USDT. And no one waited to ask "wahhhhh what about my taxerinos, with out ring signatures zelenskyyy will shut you down!"

>>60798585
>>60798469

Is there any actual reason to expect they won't just increase their hashrate by 10% next time and actually maintain more than 50% for an hour or so in the next few days?

>>60798585
I did and I made 400k more than if I had kept betting on Monero

>>60798605
>I did and I made 400k more than if I had kept betting on Monero

>>60798610
like wtf is even your point. you are totally lame

>>60798472
i suppose blockchain high fees would have pretty much the same effect as real world high taxes.
The more you increase taxes (to get more money) the less money you get.
Doubling the current fee wouldn't be a problem but rising it to $1 is asking for tx count to drop significantly to the point where anons no longer want to make that tx or will prefer other chains like litecoin.
get 10 fees of $0.1 or 1 fee of $1.

>>60798615
>like wtf is even your point. you are totally lame

IFYKYK

>>60798556
Monero is a unique product with no obvious replacement, I think most people would be happy to pay up to $1 per transaction to keep it alive.

>>60798622
Know what? that moneromarket.io got shut down before I use their name on Monero-promo imgs or smth: >>60798390

>>60798610
>that pic
the whole antimoon shit is detrimental to monero. It began as a way to prevent price fluctuations but as we have seen in the last couple months, monero has had more price fluctuations than actual shitcoins or btc lol, so its clearly not working.
By buying monero, moonfags will increase its price which will attract more miners which will make the blockchain more resilient to attacks.
Just put a little more brain in the things you do man.

>>60798660
He’s a fed. His literal purpose is to try to make Monero seem like this obscure weird ideologically driven thing that people don’t think they need.

>>60798619
It's a fair point, but A LOT of Monero transactions are for illegal purchases (drugs mostly) and I think most of these users would be ok paying like $0.50 per tx because it's pretty much a necessity to use XMR for security reasons. Your point is valid though.

>>60798660
Agreed with this message. The OP of Monerogeneral threads is probably a compromised individual peddling bankrupt narratives which do harm to Monero's growth.

>le dread darknet
>le luxury items and electronics will be smuggled and paid with xmr by normies
>le if you want price appreciation your are braindead
Wouldn't surprise me if the OP was actually a bitshitter desu

>>60798682
>Wouldn't surprise me if the OP was actually a bitshitter desu

Pedophilic Bitcoiner with a weekly debrief at Langley, thank you very much.

the archons are defiling our holy land

>>60798660
You have a point. Miners should be incentivized by the amount of xmr they get, or by the price going up, or by the fees, or a combination of those. Price going up relatively fast is not an option for a currency that aims to be widely adopted as such. I don't really see why they can't just increase the miner reward to make it more profitable to support the network. Muh inflation is countered by the tail emission anyway.

>>60798472
I think more fees + GUI wallet mining by default would help a lot. Shill this to devs.

>>60798556
The casual user should go out of their way to disable mining and higher fees. Not the other way around. The Monero software should be a bit selfish and try to support its network. The wallet must by default:
- Set up as a pruned node (public node if HDD, full node if >750GB SSD free)
- Don't have slow fee selected by default.

>>60798566
>>60798589
I understand authorities are generally incompetent and don't give a fuck, especially in shitholes, but sometimes you need a better assurance than that, so Monero is still very valuable to have.

>>60798602
Mine of die.

>>60798630
>>60798660
Yes.

>>60798670
Finance NGOs literally published papers recommending a policy of keeping Monero obscure. Yes they even singled out Monero by name. The governments and finance institutions are following those recommendations.

>>60798682
I mean, you can do these, but Monero is also very valuable to just hide wealth. There is an understanding there is a lot of money that wants this. This in turn means number will go up. That resonates a lot better with the rest of the crypto Market. The number going up benefits both us holders and Monero network itself.

Is monero still under a 51% attack?

>>60799232
Yes. But at this very moment, no. They stopped for now.

>>60799232
Yes. And people want to kill the project by introducing proof of stake because of it. We have fallen.

Qubic.org will turn on their hashrate tomorrow, and end this once and for all

>>60799232
>Is monero still under a 51% attack?

Attempted 51% attack. Pubic keeps trying and failing.

>>60799244
>And people want to kill the project by introducing proof of stake because of it.

Its moonfags that are pushing for PoS because they figure all that staking would drive the price up, which is all they care about.

Just another reminder about all the snakes in the grass here.

>>60799335
Damn right. We're going to secure Monero and drive up its price. Unlike you I actually care enough about anonymous internet money to want it to take off and not wither away in weakness and irrelevance.

>>60799353
>We're going to secure Monero and drive up its price.

You can start by extolling the virtues of PoS.


>Unlike you I actually care

Nice larp.

because it seems like not everyone understands why PoS and switching back to ASIC minable algos is retarded, it's retarded because it centralizes control of the chain, that's enough for it to be a stupid idea.
increasing fees isn't a terrible short term idea but I don't think they should be anywhere close to a dollar, low friction transactions are a big part of why crypto is nice. I send small transactions, a few dollars or so, all the time and hiking fees would make this pointless / impossible

>>60798856
>Finance NGOs literally published papers recommending a policy of keeping Monero obscure
Any links?

>>60799385
monero has to ditch the dynamic block size bullshit to create a competitive fee market
or else it will be constantly under these bs attacks

>>60799668
>ditch the dynamic block size bullshit
No
>create a competitive fee market
Yes

>>60799706
a competitive fee market requires some form of scarcity in the blocks for transaction "slots", same way airport slots work

how do you plan on creating a competitive fee market without a fixed small block size?

>>60799714
>a competitive fee market requires some form of scarcity in the blocks for transaction "slots", same way airport slots work
It takes time for the blocks to expand. It's not like when 9 txs get added to the block the next one can fit 11

>how do you plan on creating a competitive fee market without a fixed small block size?
Not our problem. If miners aren't getting paid enough by then maybe they should refuse service til fees are high enough. There's no need for artificial scarcity when you have the actual scarcity of what miners are willing to put up with.

Today there's so many people niggerpilling over the future of Monero. These people are not our fucking frens and they're actively sabotaging the project.

>>60798507
Wow bro good job
I'm sure (((Chainalysis))) love you

>>60799335
This whole idea is retarded because salvium exists, has staking and rx pow, and nobody cares.

>>60799391
>he doesn't know
NGMI

>>60799668
You're gay and retarded.

>>60799820
The real sad part is despite infinite budget and resources, this really is the best glow niggers can do against Monero-chan's supremacy: Call us communists and argue in mala fide against our principals as autonomous, anonymous men.

>>60799987
If you honestly think qubic is the worst attack anyone could possibly attempt against Monero I just don’t know what to tell you. You’re not living in reality. Completely delusional

I just want someone to create a fork with PoS and get it over with. let the market decide. you can just do things.

>>60800038
I understand some of the counterpoints for POS, namely that the rich get richer, not anyone can join the market, and exchanges tend to have the most coins so power will be centralized, but what about merged mining? I know what's his face said that would make xmr a "vassal" of the btc or eth networks, but what does that even mean? Big deal they protect our network from some bullshit, how does that make us a vassal? So long as those networks have no say in ours, I don't see the problem, we are simply using their hash power, no pledging fealty, we can switch to another or even go back to randomx once we have a high enough market cap that we can defend ourselves from all potential 51% attacks.

>>60800056
what exchanges? why is everyone still bitching about exchanges when monero has had 5 years straight of delistings? almost none of the monero in circulation is on any exchanges
going with merge mining would make monero end up like dogecoin. it's dependent on litecoin for survival.

>>60800056
Merge mining means you give up control of your coin. If Monero ever wanted to leave merge mining and switch to POS or back to independent POW mining the miners could simply refuse to run the fork for the changeover. Even Ethereum faced some resistance in getting miners to agree to the merge fork that switched from Dagger-Hashimoto mining to POS. A small coin like Monero doesn't have the clout with exchanges and the mainstream investment community that Ethereum does and could end up stuck on merge mining forever.

>>60798401 (OP)
Since the Qubic drama, I’ve set up a mining node on my modest home server (P2Pool mini). It delivers around 2,500 H/s while consuming about 40W.

If we survive a 51% attack by a margin of 2,500 H, it’ll be thanks to me!

>>60800240
Based

>>60800056
>So long as those networks have no say in ours, I don't see the problem,
We'd have to switch to SHA256 and. If >51% off the miners decide not to add our auxillary blocks they could censor the chain for free

>>60800062
This is what I'm trying to explain. Out of every other coin, Monero right now is uniquely positioned to take advantage of PoS and is least affected by it's problems, because the whole strategy against Monero involves destroying the ability for CEX and institutions from holding it. This moment is the golden opportunity for those who actually care about the coin and who already have a lot of monero to sweep in and grab enough supply to never be threatened by CEX. Also, PoS is usually associated with billion TPS smart contract delusions which makes the whole thing less practicable as a decentralized currency. Monero being a dumb ("sound") money is an advantage there too.
>But rich get richer.
This is one of the most fundamental things in money throughout the eras. I don't want Monero to be a social welfare experiment against the rich. I want Monero to be anonymous internet sound/dumb money.

>>60800468
Which they would at the slightest signal because they're OFAC compliance cucked and not to mention Bitcoin maxis.

>>60799391
There were a few papers but I can't find them. One was from EU central bank. I only found this:

>Reminder // must read: https://web.archive.org/web/20210312070922/https://academic.oup.com/cybersecurity/article/7/1/tyab004/6166133 They are specifically talking about three coins: Bitcoin (good, but likely not GDPR compliant), Zcash (good) and Monero (bad, because not AML/KYC compliant). They haven been classifying those three coins along the talking points in this article.

>Monero is the coin that is seen as a risk to public safety hence deserves to be state attacked. Quite a few mechanisms are described in that article that many here suspected for a long time (e.g. price suppression, network attacks,...).

>"A set of tools to combat privacy-coins may include means of a different technological, regulatory, economic (fiscal) nature, also including state attacks on underlying privacy-blockchains. The letter tool, as possible regulatory access points of the blockchain space, was already mentioned by Finck [16], however, without further analysis in that domain. The AML/CFT measures should concentrate on the cryptocurrency of indicated networks, instead of targeting the people who are members of their communities. The tools can and should aim towards reducing the particular currencies’ value, consequently inducing a voluntary outflow of their users."

>>60800498
PoS ignores the fact that we have no idea how much of the supply has been seized by governments over the years. If they already have >60% of the supply then it's game over as soon as we hard fork.

>>60800533
And this is why baketardism is retarded. Even they understand the price of Monero going up would make it and anonymous money stronger and more prevalent. You not being a moonboy, sticking to drugs and bake sales is exactly what they want.

>>60800537
There was some article saying they actually burn it because they consider all Monero criminal and can't sell it or something. We can't rely on that info though. That's why anons need to make sure to scoop up as much monero as possible to ensure dominance.

In the end, even if we stay with PoW (because price increases security budget), there is one fact: The only way to properly save Monero is to buy as much of it as you can. If you actually value it you buy it and you hold on to it. This doesn't mean don't spend it for Monero economy. Buy maintain your stacks.

>>60800540
>The only way to properly save Monero is to buy as much of it as you can. If you actually value it you buy it and you hold on to it.

>Save Monero by saving Monero
This is something I think we can all agree on. SAEV culture and stacking 'neroj needs to be the norm in our community.

>>60800498
>Out of every other coin, Monero right now is uniquely positioned to take advantage of PoS and is least affected by it's problems,
Is it possible to generate a rich list for Monero? Without a rich list how do we know some entity doesn't already have an overwhelming stash of coins? For POS coins it's not uncommon for only 10% of the coin supply to be staked so someone with as little as 5% could be a huge problem.

>>60800538
>Even they understand the price of Monero going up would make it and anonymous money stronger and more prevalent. You not being a moonboy, sticking to drugs and bake sales is exactly what they want.
I am slowly warming up to the idea that we need a (healthy) moonboyism. A healthy moonboyism is one where the cheerings for price appreciation is also fueled by the increasing amount of products and services being offered for XMR. Not only dogmatic holding of the coin, but strategic holding, spending and re-buying the spent amount XMR.

OP of Monerogeneral threads is a cancer in this regard. Literally nobody likes his spam wall texts and his pontification about le darknet (they are important, yes) as the end all be all there is for XMR adoption.
>>60800558
>SAEV culture and stacking 'neroj
I agree but we need more catchy slogans for these. Saev is nowhere near as catchy (and lore-rich) as hodl. And 'neroj is just some sperging about esperanto. I would much rather refer to the plural as Moneros, or as its smallest possible unit, neros, instead of putting a letter `j' to the end that nobody knows how to pronounce.

>>60800644
>as Moneros, or as its smallest possible unit, neros,
It is "neros" because it allows us to burn down Rome.

>>60800644
>cheerings for price appreciation
easy advertisement for the coins
people are more willing to mine at a slight loss during some seasons if they expect the value to go up

>>60800652
monero is esperanto language 'money'

>>60800655
I know, I noted that down here: >>60800644

Putting a `j' at the end and typing moneroj is not good memetics. It is foreign and introduces friction in reader, "how am I gonna pronounce that"

We gotta get over the sperging.

Watching moontards encourage PoS and hoarding as they pretend to care about Monero is peak kino.

>>60800696
I am not a PoS supporter. Monero has to get its mining profitable to undertake. The community is putting forth proposal after proposal for enforcing things, fixing things that wouldn't be necessary if Monero mining were bringing some profit and future expectations of profit. But instead you get dust amounts of XMR and you get them at a loss. At least miners should be able to break even (energy cost per second equals monetary earnings per second) and then some. But now we have Douglas Tuman asking, "what if we ENFORCED p2pool mining on the protocol level".

This ENFORCING BY COMMITTEE way of doing things are simply centralization factor. They are band aids at best to the solutions that should've come from free market dynamics (which offer the long term and ongoing incentivization for blockchain security).

Proof of work means monetary incentive. Tail emission implies we decided to rely on block rewards for attracting miners. Why is RandomX failing to deliver? Why did Howard Chu peddled the notion that "miners shouldn't be profitable" back in 2019?

>>60800644
>Saev is nowhere near as catchy (and lore-rich) as hodl.
Fair. No need to reinvent the wheel in this case I guess.

>And 'neroj is just some sperging about esperanto.
Also fair.

>>60800696
PoS is a bad idea.
Hoarding private stores of wealth is a great idea.

>>60800715
>Proof of work means monetary incentive
Pubic is monetarily incentivizing miners to attack the network. Governments with infinitely deeper pockets could do the same. We need a lot more ideologically driven altruistic miners that will not be so easily bribed. This must be culturally ingrained just like spending is.

>>60800735
>Hoarding private stores of wealth is a great idea
Not great for the economy.

>>60800759
>We need a lot more ideologically driven altruistic miners
You "need" those but the stock isn't simply there. What if, instead of needing altruistic miners who are aligned with your obscure pet ideology (the set of intersection is quite small, as per Monero's current predicament) -- instead, we rely on something simpler: personal greed, proft motive?

I simply do not understand how you guys psyopped yourselves to this notion that "proof of work should rely on altrusim"

WHY DO WE NEED BLOCK REWARDS THEN? Why dilute the Monero supply needlessly, if all we need are altruistic ideological miners? You don't need block rewards if your goal is producing and attracting such people; youjust need cultural institutions that brainwash miners with your ideology.

>>60800772
Nobody is saying for-profit mining is bad. But miners that are mining primarily for profit can be bribed by governments to attack the network. Public is the proof of concept.

We simply need way more altruistic miners that actually care about the mission more than lining their pockets.

>>60800715
>Why is RandomX failing to deliver?
If anything RandomX is over delivering. The sole purpose of RandomX was to keep ASICs, and it's done that.

>Why did Howard Chu peddled the notion that "miners shouldn't be profitable" back in 2019?
Simplest explanation? He's not smart enough to stay in his lane and scream I AM NOT A FINANCIAL ADVISOR when pressed about monetary issues like our favorite SeraiDEX developer

>>60800787
>Nobody is saying for-profit mining is bad. But miners that are mining primarily for profit can be bribed by governments to attack the network.
Not if we bribe them first by paying higher fees til the price moves

>>60800787
>But miners that are mining primarily for profit can be bribed by governments to attack the network.
This doesn't solve a thing. If government can do that, any deep-pocketed actor can also line up datacenters sitting around the country for hashing randomx and take over the network as well.

You are simply trying to negate my suggestion that miners should be provided with some profit, by setting it up against an adversary with near infinite resources. Of course against an infinite resource adversary monero fails.

But in our pragmatic reality of today and now, we would be in a better position if the monero network was able to incentivize dedicated miners running RandomX machines, instead of bunch of hobbyists running every now and then (and especially running around pants on fire during the times of crisis).

>>60800793
>If anything RandomX is over delivering. The sole purpose of RandomX was to keep ASICs, and it's done that.
Yeah I don't contest randomx's delivering with respect to keeping asics out. However, then, Monero's tokenomics engineering is failing. Because something is obviously failing here -- Bitcoiners don't need running around "pls run miners guise" on twitter and embarrass themselves. Bitcoin has ample monetray rewards to keep incentivizing its chain security.

But monero does not have that. So, what's the culprit here? The fast emission curve Monero has had? The 0.6 XMR/block being insufficient? The tx fee math-magic coming from ArticMine not delivering?

>>60800787
The perfect solution would be mixing tor hosting with monero mining. Where you have to host a tor node to get payed as well. Usefull POW where you use hasing power to host tor. A self propeling private internet. And you have to pay a small ammount of xmr to the random tor node you use. There this solves the qubic problem while ushering a new era of monero

>>60800806
>Bitcoiners don't need running around "pls run miners guise" on twitter and embarrass themselves. Bitcoin has ample monetray rewards to keep incentivizing its chain security.

Lets not pretend that BTC security is some impervious monolith, their security model is highly exposed to state power, the hashrate drops like a rock the minute governments decide to prohibit ASIC imports while cutting power to mining farms under the guise of "muh environmental harm, muh economic destabilization".

And doing the above would cost Uncle Sam & Friends $0.00, all it takes is the stroke of a pen.

BTC is ultimately a permissioned chain that everybody pretends is otherwise because it financially benefits them.

>>60800787
you will never ever find enough altruistic miners to secure a blockchain. Anyone with actually significant hashing power will want to mine for profit

>>60800806
>The fast emission curve Monero has had?
Plays a role but nothing we can do about it now

>The 0.6 XMR/block being insufficient?
>The tx fee math-magic coming from ArticMine not delivering?
These would have been fine if XMR was $2300 but sadly it's not working out that way.
I think the biggest contributer is a case of too much altruism, both assumed and actual, on both sides. Nobody is paying higher fees because they don't have to; mining pools with millions of dollars of hash power are happily processing fees worth $0.01 out of the goodness of their hearts and wondering why they're poor.
There isn't a way to fix this right now except to have all the largest mining pools refuse to process slow and mid priority fees; if people don't want to pay for a 30% chance to have your tx added to the next block, they can wait for p2pool or some other tiny pool to find a block to add their tx to.

>>60800855
>you will never ever find enough altruistic miners to secure a blockchain. Anyone with actually significant hashing power will want to mine for profit

A lot of people individually contributing insignificant hashing power = fewer people individually contributing significant hashing power. And censorship resistance is also about control, not just raw hash. A globally distributed “long tail” of tiny miners makes collusion and capture harder, even if the math of hashrate adds up the same.

More active users with a stake in Monero's utility is key.

>>60800877
>I think the biggest contributer is a case of too much altruism, both assumed and actual, on both sides. Nobody is paying higher fees because they don't have to; mining pools with millions of dollars of hash power are happily processing fees worth $0.01 out of the goodness of their hearts and wondering why they're poor.
checked and agreed.

>>60800807
>Just put yourself into a legally precarious situation, donate your bandwidth and your device performance
Impeccable.

>Synced 1544588/3479026 (44%, 1934438 left, 0% of total synced, estimated 2.5 days left)
So far adding 20GB of bcache to my HDD has led to an incredible improvement in sync time over just using the HDD as is. Hit rate for reads is very high and the writeback cache seems to help a lot speeding things up also. Still can't give a final verdict but it looks promising.

>>60800993
I'm glad that helps out, I'll keep it in mind for others who struggle with HDD. Never even thought of it as a way to help sync

>>60799714
>how do you plan on creating a competitive fee market without a fixed small block size?
I'm responding to this since there's one other way to address this: making the dynamic blocks 25-50% smaller could create a healthy fee market without changing much of anything else, but as I said earlier it isn't the devs job to make sure miners make a living wage and it won't help if miners aren't willing to stop mining for charity

If monero users are so charitable they are happy to mine at a loss why wouldn't they be happy to pay slightly higher fees?

>>60801046
OK, I just checked and actually the hit rate for reads has gone down the shitter over time. Total hit rate is 73%, but for the last hour it's only 17%. Seems like the speedup actually mostly comes from caching writes (which notably isn't on by default with bcache). I'll keep monitoring the situation and report again when it's done syncing.

I don't understand why moonfags are hated. Even if we imagine the future where monero is widely used, its price inherently can't be stable regardless of the tokenomics. The emission is fixed, so if someone hoards enough of monero, it automatically makes it more valuable, and vice versa. There's nothing that prevents creating an artificial shortage of it, which is just infeasible with the dollar or other fiat currency.

>>60801096
I don't think people realize how much it would help. Instead of renting mining rigs or running gupax on their Galaxy J7, people should just be buying XMR and spamming the tx pool with high priority fees. Pubic's selfish mining only works cause they're mining empty blocks, so your fees won't go to them at least.
I'm tempted to make a leddit account and make a PSA:
>if you don't pay your miners, someone else will

>>60800759
I have to point out being an altruistic staker is far easier than being an altruistic miner. Mining is like staking where you spend effort to lose money. So numbergoup is necessary to be an altruistic miner that doesn't feel like a cuck.

>>60800806
Unlike Bitcoin, the number has not sufficiently go up for Monero. It is time to change that.
>The 0.6 XMR/block being insufficient? The tx fee math-magic coming from ArticMine not delivering?
If you hoard 'neros to make number go up, suddenly they're all sufficient.

>>60800807
More like I2P.

>>60800915
Nothing illegal about running a non-exit Tor relay. Not compared to running a Monero node for sure.

>>60800993
Nice to hear. 20GB is sizable enough I suppose. I've read in a dev chat FCMP++ makes syncing a lot more HDD friendly. They also mentioned a checkpoint or something so you don't have to sync all the pre-FCMP++ chain.

>>60801101
Yeaaaaaaah LOL. Looks like 20GB is not sizable enough. You're probably past the hard fork where HDD really doesn't work.

>>60801096
Destroyed their ass with fax and logic.

>>60801181
If anything the only thing that can reliably stabilize the price is reaching a gigantic market cap. That or going to zero, hah.

>>60800652
>>60800658
Agree.
'neros sounds diminutive and cute. Moneroj is awkward sounding pretend-Spanish.

>>60801096
>>60801251
who even disagrees with that?
can someone step up

>>60801254
No, the cache is still working very well so far. It's surprisingly effective. Estimated time to sync is down to 2.1 days now. Although I'm not sure why it works exactly. Playing around with write cache modes and even turning write cache off entirely doesn't make much of a difference which is weird. If it's not the write cache why is it so much faster with such a bad hit rate on reads? I don't know but I can say for sure that it's a HUGE difference. Without the cache expected sync time is 5 months. I just checked again without bcache on the same HDD without bcache.

>>60801254
>If anything the only thing that can reliably stabilize the price is reaching a gigantic market cap. That or going to zero, hah.
It won't. Same problem as with bitcoin: because there's virtually no inflation, there's no incentive to spend it, and so hoarding happens just naturally because the number will always go up in a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think the only reasons monero's price is relatively stable are large scale black market usage and the lack of easy ways of buying monero. Black market usage will eventually get saturated, stopping pushing the price down, but the governments of course won't make it easy for any large buyer to hoard monero, so I'm pretty sure monero will stay where it is today with just a minor and slow price increase.

>>60801272
>trading blacks
Based.

>>60801181
Have you seen the complete retardation of Qubic holders?

>>60801365
Why would I keep up with the news of some shitcoin community?

>>60801181
They're hated because they shamelessly prioritize getting their bags pumped at the expense of Monero's economy, spending culture and now PoW. Everybody here wants the price to go up but these fools are willing to sell us all out to make that happen ASAP. Sad.

>>60801515
I sell stuff on XMR Bazaar. At this point to increase my reach, the best way would be for Monero itself to get more popular. So Monero-chan's baggies gotta swell for the economy.

>>60801515
>Everybody here wants the price to go up
U sure?

>>60801534
>>60797877

>>60801534
Why are they talking about raising fees anyways when they've already agreed miners shouldn't be profitable. If anything they should lower fees to zero and get rid of tail emission as well.

>>60801537
Well, at least it's good to see that people show disagreement with that chink with takes like
>Mining is supposed to be egalitarian. Most of the proposals listed above boil down to "everyone's equal but some people are more equal than others" - which is just nonsense that should be instantly dismissed.
>If keeping a secure private financial network operating isn't in itself enough incentive for people to devote some personal resources to that expense, then no other incentive matters. If some single entity can break the network, that means not enough people cared to protect it, and so it's unsustainable anyway.

Fucking commie bullshit. How come a smart person that is able to come up with an algorithm like randomx is completely delusional when it comes to common sense things?

>>60801587
>>If keeping a secure private financial network operating isn't in itself enough incentive for people to devote some personal resources to that expense, then no other incentive matters
this part of Chu is especially retarded.

>>60801596
>>>If keeping a secure private financial network operating isn't in itself enough incentive for people
yeah, Mr. Chu, we should've let go of block rewards as well. As you said: keeping a secure private financial network operating itself should be the incentive, amiritte..............

Why did XMR not follow BTC's path? BTC already laid out the blueprint of how to be a successful PoW coin.

>weed dealer now accepts crypto
>ask if he takes monero
>isnt that a bank bro?
we are still so early bros

muh ASICs
>Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote
https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

>>60801515
>pumped at the expense of Monero's economy, spending culture and now PoW
How come BTC never had these issues?

>>60801617
>Why did XMR not follow BTC's path? BTC already laid out the blueprint of how to be a successful PoW coin.

Because an ASIC-based security model invariably leaves you at the mercy of the State. >>60800835

The only reason BTC hasn't been pwn3d yet is because nobody actually feels threatened by it. Which is pathetic for an ostensibly cypherpunk technology.

>>60801657
>mercy of the State
This also applies to XMR doesn't it?

>>60801644
BTC maxis don’t care about Satoshi Nakamoto anymore, bro. It’s all about Saylor cocksucking now.

>>60801705
Didn't Satoshi himself (Hal Finney) predict something like MSTR back in the early btc days?

It looks like Monero has done everything to keep the coin obscure: no incentive for new miners to join, steep emission curve, reliance on the asic/gpu-resistant algorithm preventing profitable mining by scaling up the farm, inherent hostility towards white market and regulations severely amplified by the lack of adequate onboarding and offboarding options because of some ideological hate towards smartcontracts: instead of swapping stablecoins or mainstream coins like eth or sol via a dex bridge, people have to register on some noname cexes, swap through kyc'd bridges or through low-liquidity shady p2p services.
Having some real world usage outside of the darkweb is actually impressive given all that.

>>60801705
>t’s all about Saylor cocksucking now.
If anything, btc maxis are very weary of Saylor.

>>60801702
>This also applies to XMR doesn't it?

Crippling the Monero network would require the ongoing expenditure millions/billions of $$$ and the commandeering of a city-sized electrical grid. Still very possible but would require serious resources.

Crippling the Bitcoin network would be as easy as cutting off the supply of ASICs and power to mining farms. No resources required.

>>60801710
Yes. He's also right about endgame bitcoin never being used as a currency.

>>60801640
Your dealer is retarded and probably going to get arrested and take all his customers with him

>>60801617
Because Saylor is right about bitcoin: it's not a currency, it's digital real estate. Monero only exists as it is because the market still had a need for p2p electronic cash.

>>60801827
>probably going to get arrested
He is retarded yes he only takes solana coins :sob:
But in the uk you dont get in much trouble for selling weed

>>60801656
Monero is losing PoW because they couldn't understand the economics of why ASICs are better. It is losing it's economy because they couldn't understand why you shouldn't be overtly hostile to the state when you lack the power to back that up. And we already have a spending culture, it's called fiat. What we need is a saving culture which you failed to embrace.

>>60801884
>it's digital real estate.

lol I can't keep up with all these endless narrative shifts, seems BTC is whatever the marketing dept needs it to be. Here are a few more to ponder:

>Bitcoin is a war of android jedis fighting for the priestess of reason, created by the tornado of prosperity, assembling to the moon in a digital shrine of true ownership
>Bitcoin is a battalion of cyborg wasps embracing the ambassadors of dreams, uploaded into the fire of truth, assembling more efficient than ever through a portal of unlimited power
>Bitcoin is a battalion of cyber bulls supporting the old gods of innovation, emerging from the fire of prosperity, energetically speeding without government control in a decentralised ledger of space and time
>Bitcoin is a brigade of energy woodpeckers conjuring the ambassadors of humanity, consisting of nothing but the tornado of truth, using proof of work even smarter in a palace of endless potential
>Bitcoin is a brigade of quantum lizards defending the ambassadors of wisdom, consisting of nothing but the fire of decentralisation, exponentially growing even smarter, faster and stronger in a digital shrine of space and time
>Bitcoin is a fully decentralised web of killer lions supporting the priestess of democracy, emerging from the quantum plasma of mankind, continously accelerating even smarter in a decentralised ledger of encrypted energy
>Bitcoin is a platoon of killer vipers embracing the elders of thermodynamics, feeding on the greatest achievements of prosperity, relentlessly working even smarter, faster and stronger in a palace of encrypted souls
>Bitcoin is a war of astral wasps saluting the elders of dreams, created by the never-ending stream of mankind, building to the moon in a digital shrine of encrypted souls

>>60801959
>>Bitcoin is a war of android jedis fighting for the priestess of reason, created by the tornado of prosperity, assembling to the moon in a digital shrine of true ownership
>>Bitcoin is a battalion of cyborg wasps embracing the ambassadors of dreams, uploaded into the fire of truth, assembling more efficient than ever through a portal of unlimited power
>>Bitcoin is a battalion of cyber bulls supporting the old gods of innovation, emerging from the fire of prosperity, energetically speeding without government control in a decentralised ledger of space and time
>>Bitcoin is a brigade of energy woodpeckers conjuring the ambassadors of humanity, consisting of nothing but the tornado of truth, using proof of work even smarter in a palace of endless potential
>>Bitcoin is a brigade of quantum lizards defending the ambassadors of wisdom, consisting of nothing but the fire of decentralisation, exponentially growing even smarter, faster and stronger in a digital shrine of space and time
>>Bitcoin is a fully decentralised web of killer lions supporting the priestess of democracy, emerging from the quantum plasma of mankind, continously accelerating even smarter in a decentralised ledger of encrypted energy
>>Bitcoin is a platoon of killer vipers embracing the elders of thermodynamics, feeding on the greatest achievements of prosperity, relentlessly working even smarter, faster and stronger in a palace of encrypted souls
>>Bitcoin is a war of astral wasps saluting the elders of dreams, created by the never-ending stream of mankind, building to the moon in a digital shrine of encrypted souls
This but unironically

>>60801930
> ASICs are better
>you shouldn't be overtly hostile to the state
> we already have a spending culture, it's called fiat

>>60801978
Correct, you shouldn't be overtly hostile to the state until you have the power to defeat the state. It's why the Amish have prospered so much. Read the system's neatest trick by Ted Kaczynski.

>>60801991
>Correct, you shouldn't be overtly hostile to the state until you have the power to defeat the state

The State can't hurt you if the State can't find you. Unlike MoneroChads, Bitfags must appease the State because they're perennial sitting ducks out in the open.

>>60801729
>Crippling the Bitcoin network would be as easy as cutting off the supply of ASICs and power to mining farms. No resources required.
These oversimplifications are so stupid.
Btw did you know that one call from Langley to Bezos to wreck Monero with his idle CPUs is all it takes to destroy Monero.

>>60802030
>These oversimplifications are so stupid.

Please do go ahead and recount the ways.


>Btw did you know that one call from Langley to Bezos to wreck Monero with his idle CPUs is all it takes to destroy Monero.

Such an attempt would require the expenditure of beaucoup resources. Cutting off the supply of ASICs and electricity is basically free.

>>60802041
>Cutting off the supply of ASICs and electricity is basically free.
Yes surely the feds around the globe just magically know where all the ASICs reside and the one world government will just flip a switch without having to use any resources.
These scenarios are nothing more than highly hypothetical mental masturbation/propaganda and make it seem like something like this could happen at any second and assume a network/community is unable to react if such a threat becomes a high probability.

>>60802070
>>Yes surely the feds around the globe just magically know where all the ASICs reside

lol this has to be bait, right?

>These scenarios are nothing more than highly hypothetical
>make it seem like something like this could happen at any second

Yes, very hypothetical, its not like it has already happened.

>>60802013
A single autist has hurt you. The state has hurt you by shutting down exchanges. They've had no problem hurting you.

>>60801884
Crypto coins are a new asset class in centuries. Don't try too hard fitting them into another asset class.

>>60801930
ASIC are only good if your coin has already cornered a specific ASIC algorithm. For that to happen, Monero would have to use a very specific, probably custom new ASIC algo which can easily be targeted. ASIC mining is already too easy to crack down on. PoS is better than that shit.

>>60802130
Yeah and ASIC is not the solution.

>>60802130
>A single autist has hurt you. The state has hurt you by shutting down exchanges. They've had no problem hurting you.

Hurt doesn't mean crippled or destroyed. The XMR network is still up and running, you could go shopping on XmrBazaar right now if you'd like.

>>60802109
>Yes, very hypothetical, its not like it has already happened.
One world gov shutting power from all ASIC farms around the world? Haven't heard of that happening.

muh 'neros

dem 'neros, where dey at?

>>60802155
>One world gov shutting power from all ASIC farms around the world? Haven't heard of that happening.

Governments coordinate on taking down global pedo networks all the time. Just replace "pedo network" with "mining farms" and its basically the same thing.

Anyway, the fact that it hasn't happened YET isn't the point here - its that it could happen, that if they *really* wanted to crippling the BTC network would prove so insanely easy.

>>60802200

Reprazent

>>60802220
Also the thing is, I just don't want my internet computer money be dependent on some very specific real life object tailor made for it that is not internet or computer. PoS is better than that shit.

>>60802220
>Just replace "pedo network" with "mining farms"
This nigger is trying to equate his pedophile friends with datacenters full of ASICs. That's the real difference between Bitcoin and Monero Maxis. The former take the world as it is without trying to push their ideology on it. The latter decide beforehand how the world should be and reinterpret all evidence to the contrary to fit into their socialist worldview.

>>60802239
>PoS is better than that shit.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of PoS but I'd sooner take my chances with that than have the security of the network depend on permissioned access to specialized hardware and electricity.

>>60802252
>datacenters full of ASICs

Are you trying to imply these massive datacenters are magically immune to State interference?

>>60802220
>Governments coordinate on taking down global pedo networks all the time.
And has that stopped new pedo networks from forming? Why don't they just raid every single pedo network and abolish it completely from earth?

So Europol raids all ASIC miners in europe and then what? Some south american government will see the opportunity and start mining some low difficulty BTC for themselves.

>>60800079
what? it just means you can mine it for example with those asics people use to mine bigger coins

>>60802239
PoS IS the best because it involves no enrichment of anything other than the coin holders in case of attack on the network. PoW just means amazon of some chink ASIC company is getting the blood money for a 51% attack, instead of you, the coin holder. Anyone still arguing PoW is better is mentally retarded on the same level as bitcoin boomers who don't understand technology or economics.

>>60802263
I'm trying to imply that data centers that have the full backing of the state and contracts with power plants that have the full backing of the state do not suffer the same risks as some paki pedo ring.

>>60802229
I live not even in same country as any niggers but I recently finished GTA: San Andreas to learn how to be a real nigga and how to hood and gangsta and shiet. So basically we gotta start to wear the colors to represent Monero!

>>60802252
They already take down Monero shit all over for no real legal reason, just "risk" and "AML/KYC concerns". Fuck Monero, they're doing it to fucking video games. Countries already banned Bitcoin mining. Are you living under a rock? I guess you're a fed shill. It's a huge fucking risk. They can single out Monero.

>>60802264
Still a huge risk. These regulations and "guidelines" are too global for comfort.

>>60802274
>Countries already banned Bitcoin mining.
Yes, China has banned it several dozen times already. Hasn't seemed to make a huge impact on security or global hash rate.

>>60802264
>Why don't they just raid every single pedo network and abolish it completely from earth?

Being an internet pedo is typically more anonymous than being a BTC miner.


>So Europol raids all ASIC miners in europe and then what? Some south american government will see the opportunity and start mining some low difficulty BTC for themselves.

lol so now the security of the BTC network depends on the whims of some rogue South American junta! Shut up and take my life savings!

>>60802271
>the full backing of the state and contracts with power plants that have the full backing of the state

Jesus Christ, listen to yourself.

If you want to buy Monero direct for fiat, you can't! CEX don't list Monero. But no problem, you got to "just a website" over Tor or VPN and swap to Monero. The second you expose any kind of real life thing as Monero, they're going to come for that.

>>60802282
Snitchcoin ain't Monero. My shithole allows Bitcoin, supposedly one of the most crypto friendly countries ever totally a place snitchcoin mining would move to, but Monero is totally of limits. You snitchcoiners don't understand. Monero is on another level of heat you never had to deal with. It's not theory. It's doesn't make noise but they totally are doing shit against Monero specifically.

>>60802297
Oh any my shithole is supposedly not part of the West exactly but somehow when it comes to cucking Monero, they follow in lockstep.

>>60802285
>lol so now the security of the BTC network depends on the whims of some rogue South American junta! Shut up and take my life savings!
Lol you know you have no actual response to the implication. Your hypothetical scenario relies on there being an all powerful global entity that can basically do anything they want. And you assume this all powerful entity could blindside basically everyone who has a vested interest in BTC.

>>60800835
you can buy yourself an asic too so it doesn't have to mean centralized. you can actually get optimized mining hardware for xmr as well and it performs thousands times better than a home cpu. apparently risc v is extremely good at this sort of job

>>60802291
The State also backs gold and gold mining, that doesn't mean gold is heckin evil. It means the State seeks out power. If Monero was #1 the State would support Monero mining too, not because it was co opted, but because it won.

Eventually you're gonna have to choose whether you are a based loser, or whether you get financialized and win. Even if you tear down all world governments in favor of a voluntarily Monero society, power will concentrate in that society too and become the State.

>>60802336
>the State would support Monero mining too, not because it was co opted, but because it won
Absolutely not possible. Monero doesn't allow for transaction tracing at all, taking away the most important leverage the government has - controlling the money flow.

>>60802252
thats also forgetting the thousands of randos around the world having that gear at home

>>60802351
Half you nerds are pushing for PoS over ASICs, which just screams centralize me harder daddy. Regardless of how consensus goes the devs will always have concentrated power over the protocol, certain entities will have concentrated control over mining, others will have concentrated ownership of the coin. Concentrated power scales more effectively and eventually it gets called the State. People aren't equal no matter how hard Howard Chu copes.

>>60802297
actually you can! literally with actual money in your hand and not the banks scam credits

>>60802366
how the hell does pos even work? how would me holding a trillion xmr verify that you have what you have and that you actually made that transaction?

Why are we pumping, did the devs figure out how to not get 51%ed by some virgin or did people realize we are safe for now? Either way somethings gotta change.

FUCK FUCK FUCK I WAS WAITING UNTIL IT WENT LOWER

My shithole country is supposedly one of the friendlier places for crypto. Despite the country itself having high taxes for a shithole, there is basically no enforced crypto tax. In exchanges, they list every coin under the sun, even top 1000 rugpulls. Also the prosecution is lax, you could totally get away stealing pretty significant sums over shit like USDT. But then... if you ever look for Monero, you won't find it. Those platforms and shops that list every coin under the sun, will for some reason not list Monero specifically. Crypto normies who know about every single irrelevant token, don't know about Monero. An overbearing conspicous absence. That's when it dawned on me, Monero is something special. It's can't be though of in same terms as all the other coins. It's a part of a silent war for our future, with very high stakes for Monerochads if Monero wins even a little. That's when I really started to get interested.

The shitholes are not as shielded from the global financial conspiracy as you think. The people who want to see Monero gone are not some unconnected random regulators from random countries. They're people with a global ambition of full financial surveillance domination. FATF, central banks, payment processors... They are the ones behind it. They are global, and they aim global.

>>60802391
We must dissent.

>>60802200
>>60802229
>>60802274
mah niggas

>>60802220
BTC is already captured. No need.

>>60802311
>Governments would totally never band together to hurt BTC

This is the best you can do, huh?

No matter how you try to avoid it, the fact remains that governments could easily cripple the BTC network if they felt like it.


>>60802319
>you can buy yourself an asic too

How am I going to buy an ASIC when imports are prohibited?


>you can actually get optimized mining hardware for xmr as well and it performs thousands times better than a home cpu

lol you might want to double-check that


>If Monero was #1 the State would support Monero mining too, not because it was co opted, but because it won.

"muh gubberment lets me have this" lol how are you faggots this cucked?
>thats also forgetting the thousands of randos around the world having that gear at home

ASICs eventually burn out.

lol so apparently the Pubic guy hates Zcash and is considering attacking it next

Not sure how that would work exactly but if he's got money to burn guess he could just buy up or rent the appropriate ASICs, its not like there's a lot of hashing power protecting the ZEC network anymore.

>>60802550
people will find ways if they want to. like instead of getting a box that has crypto shit plastered all over it you could get it in parts and put it together yourself. and most of the time when something breaks they aren't that hard to repair. and the xmr miner is a thing. said to have 200k hash

>>60802550
>governments could easily cripple the BTC network
Right now they're easily crippling Monero. Maybe you should focus on that before seething over Bitcoin.

>>60802571
It would be a funny twist if he turned out to be our guy aiming to prove a point about monero's weaknesses to let the community address them.

>>60802582
This shitbox gets less hashes/watt than some consumer grade CPUs
>>60802596
That's what he's claiming to do. It's a false narrative, of course, but that's what he claims. I wouldn't mind him KO'ing Zcash though.

>>60800644
In Esperanto:
Save = savi
Hold = teni
Keep = konservi

>>60802596
Every chud plays his destined role in history.

>>60802582
These are bunch of RISC-V CPUs and were already less efficient than AMD EPYC by the time they released, proving the ASIC resistance. Even if they eek out an advantage, it will never be an orders of magnitude advantage you see when mining SHA-256 on CPU vs GPU vs ASIC.

anyone else mining?
my hash went from my humble but proud 4.2 to 3.2 and i just can't figure out why.
did they change the algo?

>>60802596
What's more likely is that he will fail and then go the good guy route and say he was trying to help us put all along, which in fairness he did because we now know that if the nsa or an agency from any 1st world country minus Canada could destroy monero in an afternoon

>>60802651
No changes on my end.

>>60802661
It's not that we did not know, many did. It's about convincing.

>>60802645
price efficient too? top epycs on the xmrig bench cost a fortune

>>60802661
So what’s the point? Why do any of this if the intelligence agencies can destroy Monero? Is there any viable path for protecting against them?

>>60802674
https://moneroworld.com/x5_writeup.html

>>60798401 (OP)
UUUOOHHH AREOLA PEAK
SEEEEEEXXXX

>>60802728
peek*
you indian scum

>>60802728
No!

>>60802267
You're assuming that 60% of all coins are being held by frens while you have no way of verifying that.
>>60802678
Pay miners to secure the chain. If the block reward isn't enough pay them more fees. A finality layer isn't going to help secure the chain anywhere near as much as having lots of well paid miners.

>>60802743
yes

>>60802753
Wow thanks Monero-chan!

>Error: Upload failed.
Kek!

>>60802780
I'd hate for you to post such despicable disrespectful images of Monerochan on imgur.

>>60802792
Uh, you mean like this?
https://files.catbox.moe/ay2ci3.png
https://files.catbox.moe/jcq7ot.png
https://files.catbox.moe/adxzgw.jpg

>>60802823
Jannies, clean it up, it's making me hard!

>>60802855
https://files.catbox.moe/buiz02.jpg
https://files.catbox.moe/azauph.jpg

>>60802823
yup
post more

>>60800005
>Doesn't refute homosexual or mentally challenged claims
>Projecting mental illness
>Makes claims (We need le staking/NGU/new algo/lick ZOG dick/concern trolling) without evidence

This is obvious astroturfed echochamber fud to see if any of the actual monero devs are lurking. Does ZOG only seem to hire troons now? If so, the future for monero is bright!

>>60802678
Pretty much what >>60802752 said. I don't know much about finality layers but even a nationstate couldn't 51% attack bitcoin or eth at this point, at least not without a ton of resources because of what would be required to do so. Basically the larger the market cap the harder it is to attack.

>>60802823
This was made years ago and yet Monero is still in the exact same price range

reporting in

>>60798401 (OP)
DO IT FOR HER

>>60802752
>pay them more fees
Raising the fee floor would work fine. Raising the block reward I would consider to be a red line as it was ironed out before Monero was a year old.

What happens when you sell monero for fiat in p2p or decentralized exchanges? I'm talking about a few thousands a month. Will the taxman ignore it or get uppity? Can you get away with saying it's (probably) a gift or will he try to go after the peer who sent you fiat to see if it was really a gift (the peer might say it was for a sale of crypto, but there's no proof it was you selling instead of someone else giving you a gift by selling theirs)?
Since stablecoins incur no capital gains tax, can I trade monero for a stablecoin then sell the stablecoin for fiat to avoid taxes?

>>60803836
How risky is it to use a fake/stolen identity to bypass KYC then buy/sell crypto and then send to your personal account?
For example, you convince some oblivious grandpa in another state or in the middle of nowhere to make a profile on a CEX and online bank, you do your crypto transactions in his name, then send the money from his online bank to your personal bank (or use his debit card yourself).

>>60803861
And supposing grandpa doesn't get caught or questioned until he dies, what happens after he dies? Do banks check whether someone is still alive (other than account activity) to raise redflags and shut down an account?

>>60803861
>>60803890
And if grandpa gets caught, what happens to you? Unless there's direct incriminating evidence (e.g., IP address) that it was you stealing his identity and making the transactions, you could claim you were just receiving gifts from an unknown person.
Of course, corrupt governments might not care and simply take everything with civil asset forfeiture and what not.

More concern trolling. Don't you queers have a bridge to jump off from? Your grave will have your "dead" name on it, and monero will still be the chad's choice lel

might as well ask here since the other generals are just meme central

Any reccomended wallet that is private/reccomended enough for USDt?
friend told me trust wallet on my phone, but dunno
No im not doing anything illegal, but I do plan to buy some monero with that later, and then that to pay for mullvad vpn

>>60803990
Who are you talking to?
Can you answer my questions?
>>60803836
>>60803861
>>60803890
>>60803929

>>60803994
I don't think they're great. Vultsig would probably be a bit better.

>>60804148
thanks, ill check it out,
another stupid question, I can transfer between different
as in from trust wallet -> Vultsig/anotehr one, right?

Is there a way to use a crypto card or spend crypto directly without the tax jews trying to suck all the blood out of your body?

>>60798585
Is that Monero-chan pic made via SD?
Curious question

>>60804000
Zelle and MoneyGram/Ria/Walmart Walmart are the only services that don't file anything to the IRS (except SARs)
>>60803861
>For example, you convince some oblivious grandpa in another state
You're not smart enough to do what you're talking about doing. Just ask a friend to kyc himself and connect "his" account to your bank.

>>60802550
>No matter how you try to avoid it, the fact remains that governments could easily cripple the BTC network if they felt like it.
If they can easily cripple BTC then they can easily cripple a PoS/RandomX network as well. There is no silver bullet against an all powerful global entity like you're trying to make it seem.

>>60801254
>Nothing illegal about running a non-exit Tor relay. Not compared to running a Monero node for sure.
They are pushing to make it at least questionable in some countries. I still prefer keeping things simple and getting more people to go to I2P instead of Tor.

>>60804586
>If they can easily cripple BTC then they can easily cripple a PoS/RandomX network as well. There is no silver bullet against an all powerful global entity like you're trying to make it seem.

BTC is easier to cripple because all it really takes is a few phone calls. No chain is 100% impervious but, again, crippling the Monero network requires the ongoing expenditure of serious resources since there are no ASICs to embargo and no mining farms to target, the network itself must actually be attacked.

The BTC network currently has an insane amount of hashing power behind it but that don't mean shit when it is so vulnerable to a logistical attack, a direct mining attack on the network simply isn't necessary.

>>60804887
>crippling the Monero network requires the ongoing expenditure of serious resources
I don't buy this. There are lots of datacenters around the country (be it USA, or any other EU countries). Amazon, alone, can try to pull off such an attack. I simply don't see "expenditure of serious resources" being as necessary as you are making out to be, since we have an attack already on going (qubic-scheme). Do you think qubicsters have access to "expenditure of seriours resources"?

>>60804905
Centralized entities always have to fight an uphill battle when they are targeting decentralized entities. So even if some data center was willing to have massive losses by solely focusing on destroying XMR there would still be a lot of people fighting against it who can't be easily stopped. In the worst case we could just wait a week after they claim victory and roll back.

>>60805004
>So even if some data center was willing to have massive losses
>massive losses
How are the numbers like? Did someone ever calculate how many cores of ryzen 9, or ryzen 5, or epyc CPUs are required to get to 51% in Monero's network?

You guys keep saying, "massive resources needed", but I sense you are mostly parroting whatever you guys see in your echo chambers.

>>60805018
>Did someone ever calculate how many cores of ryzen 9, or ryzen 5, or epyc CPUs are required to get to 51% in Monero's network?
I think there are some calculations but as we saw in the last week a lot more people get into mining if some 51% attempt is made public.
>You guys keep saying, "massive resources needed"
Because of the lack of specialized hardware. You would need to purchase a lot of hardware, use a lot of electricity and have accounting losses because you could've spent the time of the 51% attack instead on mining something that's more valuable. And it's not like you're breaching a wall, you need to maintain those operations, so it would take even more money the longer you try to suppress XMR.

>>60805057
>You would need to purchase a lot of hardware
Why are you missing the part where I said, "there are lots of VPS-type datacenters around the country" ?

So, the CPU hardware already sits at datacenters. There is no purchasing of hardware.

>use a lot of electricity
Most datacenters have yearly contracts for their electricity prices.

Don't get me wrong, but the way you defend your position is quite superfluous and is full of wishful thinking hypotheticals.

---

Apart from all this, I can argue that we already know the monetary cost of attacking Monero's network. Since we know its daily security budget (which comes from tail emission rate, typical transaction fees per block, and monero's current dollar valuation) --- in fact, people were talking about this last week, saying, it is actually a few hundred thousand dollar (a day? not sure) to spend in order to surpass Monero's security budget. This is a drop in the bucket for Amazon-like datacenter companies. Monero is not difficult to attack (hashrate-wise) at all.

>>60804887
>Kazakhstan shuts down internet because of protests
You do realize any Monero miner in Kazakhstan was just as much affected by this. You're not arguing in good faith.

>>60805078
>Why are you missing the part where I said, "there are lots of VPS-type datacenters around the country" ?
Because those companies already use them to make money, not to lose it. They would lose out on all the money they normally make off their services that require that specific data center. Additionally are they lacking an incentive. If XMR was valuable for them to mine, they would already do so. If it wasn't then they would lose a lot by not snatching up other opportunities.
>inb4 govt
Which would need to subsidize that company for its service and pay more on top of it because its competitors took up more of the market.
>Most datacenters have yearly contracts for their electricity prices.
And I bet those electricity would just love massive increases in power consumption. Even if we assumed the price stayed the same you'd still not make a profit off the money you invested in electricity, meaning it's a loss.
>This is a drop in the bucket for Amazon-like datacenter companies
See my point above regarding the incentive. Also publicly traded companies could face lawsuits over wasting resources for some crypto currency they could use instead to do some 'creative accounting'.

>>60805078
Also there are gigantic NSA data centers earmarked for cyber ops. Monero's price just needs to go way up to obtain comfortable enough security against such actors.

We are still under attack and it's worse than before. 2% orphan blocks, max size of orphan chain is 7 (they are mining empty blocks). But the total hashrate is lower than days ago, 5 Gh/s instead of 6 Gh/s. Do the needful.
MILLIONS MUST MINE

>>60805111
A hypothetical company can mine Monero on its CPU compute sources and ummediately sell the mined coins. This can give the company some amount of income to cover their losses due to shifting their compute resources from serving their regular customers to work togwards gaining hashrate.

The incentive is attacking XMR, shaking confidence in it, maybe thusly increasing the confidence in other PoW chains like Bitcoin.

This addresses your "company eats the loss"

>>60805085
>You do realize any Monero miner in Kazakhstan was just as much affected by this. You're not arguing in good faith.

Nigga plz, you know full well the point being made here.

Governments cutting off internet/power for the *entire* country just to cripple a specific crypto network clearly isn't going to happen.

Governments cutting off access to specialized mining hardware, internet and power for mining farms in particular to cripple a specific crypto network is very easy to do.

>>60805196
That doesn't seem like it'd make sense in the long run. Also purchasing XMR should be done with escrow to prevent scamming.

>>60805211
>at a loss!

>>60805250
>>at a loss!
>at an acceptable loss

tradeogre alternatives?

>>60805207
You're failing to see any game theoretic dynamics that are at play that protect Bitcoin very well and again you're completely relying on an all powerful one world gov who would have the ability to shut down all miners simultaneously. But anyway we're going in circles.

>>60805297
>You're failing to see any game theoretic dynamics that are at play that protect Bitcoin very well and again you're completely relying on an all powerful one world gov who would have the ability to shut down all miners simultaneously. But anyway we're going in circles.

Oh, so now you're finally conceding that BTC is indeed at the mercy of the State but its OK because we're all friends now and the State would totally never, ever rescind any of those permissions.

Bottom line: BTC is a permissioned chain that only persists because its a threat to nobody.

>>60805328
>Oh, so now you're finally conceding that BTC is indeed at the mercy of the State but its OK because we're all friends now and the State would totally never, ever rescind any of those permissions.
What are you talking about. You can't stop a state from mining BTC if they want to. You also can't stop a state from mining Monero. Is Monero at the mercy of the state if they decided to mine Monero? Again, you fail to see the game theory behind BTC mining (which is exactly what has happened in corrupt Kazakhstan) and think that the world would just unanimously agree to stop all ASICs and that no one would take advantage of the situation.

>>60805275
nonkyc.io

>>60805366
>What are you talking about. You can't stop a state from mining BTC if they want to. You also can't stop a state from mining Monero. Is Monero at the mercy of the state if they decided to mine Monero? Again, you fail to see the game theory behind BTC mining (which is exactly what has happened in corrupt Kazakhstan) and think that the world would just unanimously agree to stop all ASICs and that no one would take advantage of the situation.

You're grasping at straws here, pal. The key point is that crippling the BTC network costs $0.00 for determined governments and all you can do is naively insist that it doesn't matter because they totally would never do that.

>co-ordinated hit on global pedo networks: routine
>co-ordinated hit on global mining farms: impossible

>>60805253
>>>at a loss!
>>at an acceptable loss
>block reward not needed ; let's all mine at an "acceptable" loss

>>60805414
>The key point is that crippling the BTC network costs $0.00 for determined governments
This doesn't make sense. In fact, most of your messages don't make sense. You are simply employing blind rhetoric. You don't need any arguments. You might as well spam, "MONERO WON" over and over. Meanwhile the network's under fire, on-ramps and off-ramps diminishing, billions of dollars getting erased off of moneros mcap.

>>60805417
>>block reward not needed ; let's all mine at an "acceptable" loss

You know, it is possible for profiteers and non-profiteers to co-exist.

>>60805424
>This doesn't make sense. In fact, most of your messages don't make sense. You are simply employing blind rhetoric.

Is this your best attempt at gaslighting?

>>60805399
>no kyc
>still conducts aml checks
Sounds like a sure way to lose your money if you get dirty non-xmr coins from someone.

>>60805429
>gaslighting
Not necessary. Lurkers can see your ID in this thread. And they can discern what is an empty rhetoric, what is wishful thinking, what is outright delusion, for themselves.

>>60805435
>And they can discern what is an empty rhetoric, what is wishful thinking, what is outright delusion, for themselves.

Yeah, more distractions.

Bottom line: governments have the ability to cut BTC mining farms off from ASICs, internet and electricity anytime they like and Bitfags have no plausible countermeasures so they cope thusly.

Speaking of botnets, is there at least a decent assumption of what are the average CPU/memory specifications on a PC unfortunate to be infected? Would it be a net positive for Monero if RandomX requirements were tuned to be higher than that? For example:
>+ botnet fags lose ability to mine on probably every machine they're on (so maybe they kindly get off those PCs, but who am I kidding)
>- average person who does want to mine a little cannot do so, until they buy HEDT/server tier components for their vidya PC
I'm wondering if this would do any good for a PoW coin. It would be pushing in the direction of specialized hardware, which can be risky as anons mentioned with BTC, even though it's still closer to general computing hw.

>>60805444
Governments also have the ability to drop a nuke on Howard Chu's house, therefore Monero is permissioned

>>60805484
It was already proposed to make widely accessible asics connected to a normal pc a requirement for mining. However, for some reason, this option gets ignored.

>>60805057
indeed if you or me were to try attacking the network the price would be insanely high but the government doesn't need to buy anything new since they got the resources already. don't need that many epycs to get a pathetic 5ghz hashrate

>>60805085
just mine on your satellite backup connection bro

>>60805444
it doesn't matter. no restrictions simply allows you and me to mine with the most efficient hardware. farms are just an side effect of mining being profitable but not a requirement. bitcoin isn't technically restricted to asic only like monero is to cpu only so you can switch to gpus and even cpus if it comes to that

>>60805563
>bitcoin isn't technically restricted to asic only like monero is to cpu only so you can switch to gpus and even cpus if it comes to that

That would still *drastically* weaken security on account of the inefficiencies involved: a top-tier GPU (e.g. RTX 4090) might manage ~1 GH/s on SHA-256, that's over 100K times slower than a modern ASIC. CPUs are even worse, measured in MH/s, a million-fold slower than ASICs. And that doesn't take into account the significantly greater power consumption, mining on CPU/GPU at today’s difficulty means you burn vastly more $$$ in electricity than you’d ever earn in block rewards or transaction fees.

>>60805587
so why should we use such inefficient ways to keep monero weak then? and the difficulty would of course drop if the farms start dropping out

>>60805609
>so why should we use such inefficient ways to keep monero weak then?

Apples & oranges. SHA-256 and RandomX are completely different hashing algorithms, RandomX is intentionally CPU-heavy and memory-hard so hashes are much more expensive.

>on modern hardware, a RandomX hash costs ~10^8–10^9× more energy per hash than a SHA-256 hash.

>>60805657
monero also suffers of a steep inconvenience tax. its easy for us nerds to mine or buy but for the normie, he is not going to bother when you have to install special software or buy btc first and then exchange it to xmr. he has no incentive to exchange because btc already does everything he needed crypto for and dex process is slow and complicated for them. it cannot moon as a niche coin that is not available on the exchanges that almost everyone uses. hell even btc is kinda nerdy as most retards just use the stablecoins

>>60805688
True. I wonder why nobody really cares enough to at least throw more resources into serai so that it's not just Luke doing all the work.

>no YOUR shitcoin is easier to 51%
it's not a fair comparison. Calling BTC a permissioned chain that the state can cut off at a moment's notice forgets to mention the part where governments will actively protect the chain for no other reason than they don't want other governments to have more hash power than them.
Calling XMR a Chad chain that has zero centralized points of failure forgets to mention the part where the state doesn't need to attack it centrally. Exchange delistings, starting pools that pay you a premium to selfishly mine on the chain, mining the coin in secret to maintain constant sell pressure (while claiming 'its just botnets, bro), starting a general thread on /biz/ where OP subtly leads the community on the road to the poor house, etc.

>>60805740
its also better for them to let the lesser bad exist and be the most popular option. they wouldn't want btc to fail and xmr to take its place :)

>>60805688
>it cannot moon as a niche coin that is not available on the exchanges
This. Monero's accessibility sucks.

>>60805688
>but for the normie, he is not going to bother

The continued existence of the darknet economy shows us that normies, who comprise virtually the entire customer base, will in fact bother to jump through all the hoops if they have no choice.


>when you have to install special software or buy btc first and then exchange it to xmr.

lol buying BTC first and then converting to XMR is literally spelled out in the DNM Bible, its how most n00bs still acquire XMR, with LTC being more common than BTC now.


>he has no incentive to exchange because btc already does everything he needed

"Sorry, Monero-only" is the incentive. And nobody actually uses BTC as money anymore, its now predominantly stablecoins for regulated commerce and Monero for unregulated commerce.


>not available on the exchanges that almost everyone uses

Yes, that's what happens when you're legit cypherpunk tech, you get treated like a threat. Now think about what that says about Bitcoin.

>>60805799
How does being limited to darknet (and even then, only because there are no other options) help monero? That autistic yapping "muh legit cypherpunk tech" neither pumps the price nor makes monero usage more common.

>>60805740
>governments will actively protect the chain for no other reason than they don't want other governments to have more hash power than them.

lol this claim is almost a parody of maximalist cope: it tries to turn Bitcoin's biggest structural weakness, state choke points, into a feature by assuming governments will fall over themselves to subsidize and "protect" the network.

Let's unpack the absurdity, shall we?

First, calling Bitcoin "permissionless" while admitting states can pull the plug on mining farms is already an own-goal. Mining isn't floating in the clouds, it's plugged into power grids, data centers, and ASIC supply chains, all of which are licensed, inspected and sanctioned infrastructure. If governments can choke it then, by definition, it is permissioned at the infrastructure layer.

Second, the "governments will protect Bitcoin" angle is laughable. States don't protect things out of some altruistic balance-of-hashpower theory. They protect what serves their interests. If mining revenues enrich regulated corporations, fine. But if Bitcoin undermines capital controls, facilitates sanctions evasion or destabilizes energy policy those same governments will crush it without hesitation. Expecting sovereign states to engage in a Cold War-style hashrate arms race to "defend" Bitcoin is pure fantasy.

Third, this framing betrays the exact opposite of the "stateless money" dream. If the chain's survival hinges on State power, subsidies and geopolitical rivalries, then Bitcoin isn't a decentralized people's network, it's a ward of nation-states. That's the definition of permissioned consensus: hashpower ultimately at the mercy of sovereigns who decide where energy flows and which ASICs are allowed across borders.

Finally, if your only argument is that governments will compete to keep BTC alive then you've just conceded the ultimate point: its security ultimately depends on geopolitics rather than pure math. And geopolitics is unpredictable as fuck.

>>60805444
Tech companies are the government. The government has no more power to shut down Google and Amazon servers then it does to stop printing money.

>>60805838
>How does being limited to darknet (and even then, only because there are no other options) help monero?

It keeps the Monero economy immune to State interference. Meanwhile on the clearnet, governments are banning cryptocurrency payments.


>That autistic yapping "muh legit cypherpunk tech" neither pumps the price nor makes monero usage more common.

Organic appreciation comes with time and increasing demand from consumers and other users. Nothing good, including wealth, comes easily. Gotta work for it.

>>60806025
>Tech companies are the government. The government has no more power to shut down Google and Amazon servers then it does to stop printing money.

>>60806043
>It keeps the Monero economy immune to State interference. Meanwhile on the clearnet, governments are banning cryptocurrency payments.
What lack of clearnet presence has to do with the ability of the state to interfere, given solid tech?
>Organic appreciation comes with time and increasing demand from consumers and other users. Nothing good, including wealth, comes easily. Gotta work for it.
How's it gonna come if nobody except the junkies is able to use monero?

>>60805878
>Let's unpack
#1 indicator that you are a bot, that these threads are run by a bot with instructions to be as out of touch as possible

>>60806086
>What lack of clearnet presence has to do with the ability of the state to interfere, given solid tech?

Do you understand how end-to-end encryption works?

>How's it gonna come if nobody except the junkies is able to use monero?

Tax-free P2P grey market commerce. Think XmrBazaar on steroids.

>>60806106
>#1 indicator that you are a bot, that these threads are run by a bot with instructions to be as out of touch as possible

BLOOP-BLEEP, stay salty, my friend.

>>60805878
I'll reply to this in the next thread because I want people to know how stupid these arguments are

>>60806142
>Tax-free P2P grey market commerce
P2P commerce doesn't get taxed anyways. You think everyone at the farmer's market or some guy on ebay are declaring taxes? I evade taxes on Bitcoin but Monero doesn't have any gains to warrant avoiding capital gains taxes.

>>60806214
>I'll reply to this in the next thread because I want people to know how stupid these arguments are

Can't wait! This is fun.

>>60806217
>You think everyone at the farmer's market or some guy on ebay are declaring taxes?

Tax evasion is easy with cash. Not so easy with snitchcoins.

>I evade taxes on Bitcoin

You hope.

>>60806217
if they are scandis they absolutely are. those suckers love taxes and snitch on anyone on the smallest suspicion and are anti cash

>>60805250
I also do things like host my own servers and seed torrents "at a loss". I just do these things to make glowniggers and greedy kikes seethe.

>>60805424
MONERO WON

>>60805399
CEX are scam even if they're non-KYC. They will steal your money in an exit scam like TradeOgre or stop withdraws at the worst possible moment like it happens all the time. The swaps like the ones Trodacor and OrangeFren give you are far more reliable for me. Even when everyone was stopping withdrawals, there were still enough swaps working just fine. In theory they have less incentive to exit scam because they are not storing money. They are more expensive, you have to add a few dollars to you 'nero buy prices compared to the ticker, but it's worth it for the money to spend the least time outside your wallets.

>>60805504
Because fuck ASIC, just go PoS then.

>>60805688
>>60805799
>>60805838
>>60805878
>Error: Our system thinks your post is spam. Please reformat and try again.

>>60806142
>Do you understand how end-to-end encryption works?
What does e2e encryption has to do with the clearnet presence? You still didn't explain why monero should stay in darknet only.
>Tax-free P2P grey market commerce. Think XmrBazaar on steroids.
I'm sure your average Joe trying to sell milk from his farm will appreciate installing a bunch of software from niche tech-blabbering forums, registering on some exchange to get btc, swapping btc to monero just to finally fucking sell something. Just to be left with a question of how to actually turn that into cash without getting his ass blocked by the exchange.

>>60806393
Moving more people to the darknet? Not happening, that's just delusional. Darknet has this image of a place for drug dealers, weapon trading, and stuff like that. No normie would want to mess with that unless there's no other option, of which there are plenty in the clearnet.

>>60806419
>What does e2e encryption has to do with the clearnet presence? You still didn't explain why monero should stay in darknet only.

Clearnet = permissioned. Darknet = permissionless. Geddit?

>I'm sure your average Joe trying to sell milk from his farm will appreciate installing a bunch of software from niche tech-blabbering forums, registering on some exchange to get btc, swapping btc to monero just to finally fucking sell something. Just to be left with a question of how to actually turn that into cash without getting his ass blocked by the exchange.

Selling milk online isn't really a thing though, is it? The digital counter-economy is more for goods that can be packaged & mailed and services that can be provided over the wire. And the entire point of a circular economy is not needing to cash out.

>>60806437
>No normie would want to mess with that unless there's no other option, of which there are plenty in the clearnet.

Normies have been happily shopping on the darknet since 2011. If they're fine with buying highly illegal narcotics there then buying "competitively priced" (smuggled) legal goods on the darknet is even less of an issue.

Anyone want to try to bake a thread so OP doesn’t spam his typical 40 posts at the start?

>>60806504
>OP doesn’t spam his typical 40 posts at the start?

That will happen regardless. Knowledge is power.

>>60806513
Nobody reads it. Hope you understand that. Also read this >>60798442

>>60806450
>Clearnet = permissioned. Darknet = permissionless. Geddit?
Still has nothing to do with e2e encryption. And it's not like pornsites that are constantly getting banned actually disappear. You can't do much to a clearnet site you don't like, domain bans are easily bypassable.

>Selling milk online isn't really a thing though, is it? The digital counter-economy is more for goods that can be packaged & mailed and services that can be provided over the wire. And the entire point of a circular economy is not needing to cash out.
You missed the point. A normie won't jump through all these hoops just to sell something tax free, when it's possible to achieve the same without monero. Nobody is going to come after you if you don't pay taxes on something cheap sold on craiglist or whatever it is in your country.
>>60806464
Show me another place where you can buy drugs that is not on the darkweb. I specifically said "unless there's no other option". Now tell me what makes the trouble with using monero worth it unless you have real concerns about someone coming after you. Real, not exaggerated due to paranoia or autism.

Really, the longer I spend in the monero community, the more I realize that the main problem with its price action and real world adoption is the common mindset of its users.
Instead of thinking more like a normie and trying to actually tailor the user experience to the needs of a normie, all I hear is constant obsessive thoughts about the surveillance.
The result? More than 10 years of obscurity, with only criminals and some tech-savvy enthusiasts using it to actually buy or sell things. Like sure, it is important to keep monero privacy-first, but it's not the only thing that matters. This community really needs to cut down on paranoia.

>>60806504
> bake new thread
> op also bakes and selfishly posts on his thread
> mine gets orphaned since it's not the longest
mfw

>>60806526
>Nobody reads it.

It's not meant for YOU, dumdum, its meant for n00bs who are just discovering Monero.

>Don't be a HODLtard

lol this really rustles your jimmies, huh? Spending is the lifeblood of the Monero economy.
>And it's not like pornsites that are constantly getting banned actually disappear. You can't do much to a clearnet site you don't like, domain bans are easily bypassable.

lol are you high?


>A normie won't jump through all these hoops just to sell something tax free, when it's possible to achieve the same without monero. Nobody is going to come after you if you don't pay taxes on something cheap sold on craiglist or whatever it is in your country.

Different people have different risk tolerances. An ongoing enterprise where tax evasion is key to competitive pricing is a prime target for the IRS.


>unless you have real concerns about someone coming after you. Real, not exaggerated due to paranoia or autism.

Why take the risk of running a tax-free business on the clearnet when you can minimize the risk down to an absolute minimum on the darknet? Especially now that accessing the darknet is so easy your grandmother could do it.

Darknet grey markets are so obviously the future, its just a matter of setting up the infrastructure and raising awareness. Neroshop is coming soon, should help bootstrap the sector.

>>60806565
It starts with us anon. I don’t really like to promote myself but I actually think I’m responsible for a significant shift in the tone of these threads. I have been relentlessly attacking OP for being a fed shill trying to make Monero obscure intentionally.

My constant hammering of what a faggot OP was being allowed more people to come out of the woodwork and disagree with him. As bad as these threads are they were even worse before i started posting disclaimers and calling OP a faggot fed at every given moment.

I see in these threads alone it used to be very firmly against moonboys and now it’s more of a mixed culture. OP has cut down a bit on his gay react images and more people who genuinely want profit, god forbid, are allowed to speak their mind.

Monero is the best coin in the world with the best narrative and the best tech and (some of) the best community. All we need to do is shout down these anti moonboy loser faggots until we successfully subvert their gay little agorism bake sale meet up.

Compared to everything else in crypto it’s actually not that hard. Just bully these loser nerds

NEW THREAD: >>60806591
>NEW THREAD: >>60806591
NEW THREAD: >>60806591
>NEW THREAD: >>60806591
NEW THREAD: >>60806591
>NEW THREAD: >>60806591

>>60806160
>look ma! I am saving the network!

>>60806368
>do things like host my own servers and seed torrents "at a loss". I just do these things to make glowniggers and greedy kikes seethe.
Right. These are different than contributing hashrate to a Proof Of Work crypto currency.

Seriously. If monero miners think like you (as you make out to seem) we should get rid of tail emission. You will get your payment in the form of " glowie seethe". But don't forget that you will be the one who's seething the next time, as the jashrate still remains low (not everyone is incentivized by glow-seethes) and easily can be co-opted.

>>60806618
it adds up if you manage to install it on millions of cars :) they have all this hi tech that basically gets used for nothing at all because you have to look at the street and keep hands on the wheel and not play with the screen

>>60804477
>Zelle and MoneyGram/Ria/Walmart Walmart are the only services that don't file anything to the IRS (except SARs)
Thanks!
>>60804477
>You're not smart enough to do what you're talking about doing.
I'm not planning on doing it. Just wondering about this hypothetical case.
>Just ask a friend to kyc himself and connect "his" account to your bank.
I imagine you mean a friend who lives abroad in a country with no crypto tax or with little fiscal oversight. Otherwise he might get questioned why he's suddenly receiving thousands of dollars a month that he then sends to me.
>>60804905
>Do you think qubicsters have access to "expenditure of seriours resources"?
Most likely, yes. They're probably glowniggers or collaborating with them. Otherwise they would have no resources to waste and no motivation to do this.

>>60806572
I thought of this as well and it was pretty funny, given recent events. Thank you anon.

Crypto ATMs require KYC for large amounts but let you sell/withdraw without KYC for low amounts such as $100-900.
So can you make multiple low-amount withdrawals one after another to avoid KYC? Or does it go "you have to wait 2 hours to withdraw again"? Does it record your address to know if you've withdrawn more than X amount on a given day? What if you use Monero, so it doesn't know your address?