Thread 60826199

How does Germany do it? The pay for experts is relatively low, not quite 25% of graduates with a M.Sc. in mechanical engineering makes above 70k EUR a year, that's around 5.8k a month. For most people you must deduct around 40% to get the net value, which would be around 3.5k a month.
See. https://www.gehalt.de/einkommen/suche/maschinenbau%20master
If you are in those 25% you are almost certainly living in places like Stuttgart or Munich where you'll be lucky to get an apartment for 1k a month, probably it's more like 1.5k, leaving them with 2k for groceries and and other bills.
That begs the question: Why would these people stay? They could easily move to Switzerland or even the US but they choose to stay in a place were they can maybe accumulate 20k to 30k a year if they are penny pinching. Property + a modest, modern house would be at least 500k in rural areas btw. Not to mention the amount of effort a mechanical engineering degree with good grades takes in Germany.

Yet the country was able to dominate mechanical engineering for 80 years (I know they are shitting the bed right now but there are other reasons for that).
How did they do it? Why didn't experts leave?

Not everything's about money.

>>60826199 (OP)
The experts did leave, but it doesnt matter. The automotive industry has literally been completely unchanged for decades.
Commercial Aviation is the same way.
The reality we must face and perhaps now *soon* strive to change is that we have a massive decay in competence, spirit and achievement/innovation in the western world which has forced us to basically double and triple down on the same old business models of the 1980's over and over, with very few changes to the actual capital of the business.
Modern commercial aviation, if we still had the economy of the late 1800's and early 1900's, would look NOTHING like it does today. The same for cars, for medicine... everything. This world we are in is completely fucked, inverted and backwards compared to the way it would have been had we not changed everything at the turn ofthe century (in the USA, 1913 and 1933).

Germany looks nothing like what it should. France, the UK, Switzerland, Luxembourg... the entire western european project has racked up massive debt to pay for bread, not innovation. Look around. We aren't going anywhere. You can pretend your cars are 10x better than they were 40 years ago, but youre only doing that to justify the price is up 1000% also.

Europeans also don't know what to do about inflation and use property. They love real estate, more than the average person anywhere else. Even Americans don't have the same mentality when it comes to investing. Europeans are terrified. They are the most conservative people on the planet when it comes to finances. The last holdout is Germany in terms of fiscal discipline in Europe, and it looks like that's about to go.

Everything is about to change. We completely destroyed the old world and we live in the ruins. Don't get confused about what we're doing here.

>>60826199 (OP)
> be american
> go to university for msc eng
> 200k in debt now@ 8% interest
> get job 100k
> pay 35 k in taxes
> pay 8k in health insurance premiums
> pay 12 k for car and insurance since no public transport
> pay 15k in student loan payments in interest per year while balance grows
> pay 24k per year to live in shoebox
> pay 12 k per year in gmo slop
Thanks for playing you are now -6k per year just to live .

>>60826199 (OP)
they stay because of family and because they are retarded / are easily satisfied. Germany also has good employment protection, so once you are in a bigger corp for more than 6 months you are very hard to get rid off and can be comfy

>>60826328
Major strawman, but even if it's true MsC would be $150k to $250k within 10 years, so it even out. Whereas the Kraut would be lucky to even touch 100k.

>>60826199 (OP)
>Why would these people stay?
the vast majority of white collar workers with good jobs wait til their boomers die so they can inherit

>>60826345
The kraut has no debt, fixed vacation, can take time for for kids birth, and will live a longer more full life . The american is going die an alcoholic, and probably get laid off when he finally makes the 250k only to have start all over again. Its all soo tiring .

>mfw German wagecucks wake up every day early in the morning to support niggas and lazy shitskins with government bux
>mfw niggas and shitskins rape, kill and fuck your women while wagecuck is working
>mfw your cuck government can not kick them out of your country
>mfw your country will transform slowly into an absolute shit hole
>mfw you can not do anything about it
>mfw i am living a comfy life in a based country without niggas and shitskins
>mfw my 8/10 gf sucks my cock every day

>>60826328
1)
American University degrees are too expensive, no questions there.
That being said you could get a B.Sc. in physics for 25k Pounds from the Open University, distance learning.
https://www.open.ac.uk/courses/physics/degrees/bsc-physics-r51
Apparently it's very well respected and Europe's largest university.

Or you could get a Computer Science degree (B.Sc. and M.Sc.) from "Fernuni Hagen" in Germany, distance learning. Doesn't cost a penny, because German university is free for everyone, you don't even have to be a EU citizen!
Well respected, apparently Germany's second largest university.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Hagen

2)
Taxes are WAY higher in Germany and your taxes fund muslim families with 10 children, at least American taxes fund rockets and cool stuff like that

3)
Health insurance is extremely costly in Germany. It's 10% of your gross income, whether you are an overweight chain smoker or a guy who exercises 5 times a week doesn't matter. That feels fair to you?

4)
Cars are based, enjoy those delayed trains full of muslims

5)
Yeah loans suck but I already gave you the alternative

6)
Apartments are insanely expensive in Germany too

7)
As if German fast food is that much healthier lol
On the other hand most Americans hunt and fish so there is that...

>>60826370
Of course he has debt, try financing a 500k property + house on a job the lets you set aside 30k annually at max any other way.
>fixed vacation
Spent in some tourist trap that sets him back 10k
>take time for kids birth
Feminized outlook on life honestly
>will live a longer more full life
doubt and even if
at least the American can look forward to MAYBE retiring in Wyoming or something like that
The European would end up in a home for the elderly
>The american is going die an alcoholic
European's start drinking at age 13
>probably get laid off
yeah European companies never file for bankruptcy, right?

>>60826445
Americans universities rape you financially.
I just gave you an example of why its a wash in terms of costs of education vs income and healthcare
In america you get sick you go bankrupt , lol seem fair to you?
You go to university to build connections as well as get an education. No one giving you a good engineering job if you got it from some online school.
American taxes fund israel and genocide in gaza
Cars are useless fucking depreciating assets you have to own in america to live .
American food even in grocery stores is slop, compared to eu.
There are lifestyle benefits to eupoors with less stress . The american who hasnt lived outside of his third tier city suburb would no nothing about that.

>>60826199 (OP)
nobody does mechanical engineering anymore does who do leave the country or work in white collar jobs

>>60826484
>Americans universities rape you financially.
Porbably but I gave you the alternative.

>In america you get sick you go bankrupt , lol seem fair to you?
Survival of the fittest. Not necessarily fair but it's a realistic outlook on life.
Not necessarily the ideal but better than the EU where people take 40 sick days a year without blinking an eye.

>some online school
some online school?
I quote:
>The Open University (OU) is a public research university and the largest university in the United Kingdom by number of students.
>The university is included in major world university rankings such as Times Higher Education World University Rankings, U.S. News & World Report and Academic Ranking of World Universities.

>The University of Hagen[3] (German: FernUniversität in Hagen, informally often referred to as FU Hagen) is a public research university that is primarily focused on distance teaching
>The university has produced many notable alumni in the fields of law, economics, business and politics, among them two Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz Prize winners,[8][9] 1 Gossen Prize laureate,[10] at least 25 university professors,

>American taxes fund israel and genocide in gaza
fuck both

>Cars are useless fucking depreciating assets you have to own in america to live .
They literally offer the freedom of mobility to individual people but whatever
>American food even in grocery stores is slop, compared to eu.
American food is slop but European food isn't that much better.
And again, in America you can easily hunt or fish for food

>>60826516
Yeah as I said, they are shitting the bed but there are other reasons other than the meager pay.
Did they offer better pay in the 70s and 80s when their car industry stomped America's?

>>60826484
These sound like skill issues, the kind that Germans would be too smart to experience anyway. I don’t have major student loans (about $3.5k left that will be gone by the end of the year), medical debt or car debt. Cars are good even in Europe. When I visit Germany next year I’m renting one because it’s faster than their public transport. And you can just not eat slop. Another skill issue.

>>60826199 (OP)
our whole system is fucked. I believe the average wage of the lowest 10% vs the average wage of the highest 10% is lower by a factor of something like 2.5x. someone driving a taxi cab is basically "only" earning half of someone who wasted 5 years on his bachelor+master and who is working 60+h and is doing complicated things. the basic idea is that those people without degrees are basically paying for the free education with their tax money so it balances out or whatever. you also get double fucked in the ass with higher taxes once you start earning more so the incentive for high earners is usually not to earn more but to work less. the usual advice most people here get is to finish their education and go to america with their degree. you wont get rich here as an employee no matter what kind of education you have.

>>60826541
> survival of the fittest
Top kek. Are you 16?
> claims good engineering job can be found from online degree
Seems like you have never looked for a job.
> supports spending more shekels to israel and reliance on depreciating asset .
Lol no hope for you.
> claims eu food isnt better
You have clearly never been to Europe.


>>60826693
> skill issue
Why are you still not mark zuck anon, seems like skill issue.
Average examples are compared with average examples for real comparison.

Germans dont like risk and moving abroad is a risk, they rather have their cushy wage job and dont bother with any risk, same reason self employment is so fucking low in germany, or investing as a whole (only newer generations invest, the fear of losses is too big for older generations)

I make 3.7k netto in german as a Msc in CS, but i live in the country side-ish so not expensive like munich, why do i stay? Mainly family and friends

Can i afford a house? Barely

Wow, I thought I got raped bad in the UK, my take-home after pension contributions is ~68% of my salary at 85k, in Duesseldorf, converting to 98k EUR I'd only get to keep ~43%

>>60826199 (OP)
Oh no, please no guaranteed health care and pension.

>>60826841
>Why are you still not mark zuck anon, seems like skill issue.
Yes.
>Average examples are compared with average examples for real comparison.
No averages have been mentioned. But even then averages are irrelevant. Who wants to be average?

>>60827305
Is pension even good? Seems like the tax advantaged plans are better. Superior returns and the money is yours. I guess pensions would be preferable if I didn’t know how to invest, but I do.
>>60827079
>43%
Is that real?

>>60827395
Only retards , and children are incapable of grasping the idea that most people are by definition average.
>>60827404
Kek. Pensions provided by the country are better because you are bound to get rugpulled by the market at the worst time. This is why people talk about the good ol days . Most americans do not have enough retirement savings.

man what good is 1.2k in divvys tomorrow if the rest of my portfolio is down 2k.
i also picked the absolute worst possible time to start dcaing into bitcorn too fuck

>>60827429
>>Kek. Pensions provided by the country are better because you are bound to get rugpulled by the market at the worst time. This is why people talk about the good ol days . Most americans do not have enough retirement savings.

You're never getting that money's worth when you'll be old, it'll be a pittance at best. You're just paying for the boomers and immigrants welfare. Thank you very much for your generosity.

If I had invested in stock ETFs instead of the bottomless pit that are mandatory public pensions, I'd be retired already

>safer society, no hobos

I seriously don't know how you americans can handle all the homeless people and all the violence. I would be stressed the fuck out all the time. And it's great that here in europe we aren't locked to a gated community but can go wherever we want freely without having to worry about violence. This alone is worth many thousands of dollars.

Also the public infrastructure in USA sucks. And yeah the healthcare costs, education, a ton of hidden costs like child healthcare ect. make the pay a lot less than it seems at the start. Lastly it just feels good to know that with your work you're helping the weak, the sick and the downtrotten. Honestly unless you have confidence-issues, it feels better to know that you're helping others than it feels to earn a lot of money.

>>60827481
You are paying for isreal and boomer healthxare here too.
Most people in america do not have enough retirement funds. Its easy for you to say these hypotheticals in retrospect. Like had i invested in bitcoin when it was 2 dollars i would be a trillionaire . Yet you have not reitred , and you could have moved to the united states . All of it is
Trite.

>>60827490
Krautland has tramps too, but they're just slightly more civilised, going through bins for the pfandflaschen, rather than cracked out lunatics.

>>60827436
>prices going down
>plan to keep DCA'ing
>worst time
you should be cheering on lower prices

>>60827514
the other side of this is being forced to baghold for months/years
at least with divvies you get a payout to cope with

>>60827519
oh my god not months... what the fuck are you even doing here

>>60826345
>Major strawman,
You have no idea just how shit life is here.
T. Amerigolem

the most important thing for young, male, well earning germans is to go online and complain. on every forum, no matter the discussion, always whining like a little children. wahh wahh, i will never be rich, taxes so high oh no, omg no pensions, wahh wahh, old people are all collecting bottles, can't pay for retirement, wahh wahh, switzerland america. all day long, they need this to be happy, just nod and let it go

>>60827404
>>60827079
On the worst tax class you would have 58k, which is 59% not 43%

>>60826199 (OP)
The biggest problem is that engineering jobs in Germany have their pay regulated (down) by the government. So basically only your years of experience matter (because bureaucrats can't judge actual competence) and there's no way to negotiate higher pay if you are highly competent. Contrast this with America where the market is more free and if you can secure multiple offers it's very easy to negotiate up in pay. Ngl, I looked into moving to Germany before because I really like it there, but the fact I can't make money kept me in JewSA because I don't want to be a poorfag loser. Basically, the government bureaucracy needs to be drastically curtailed to fix this, and most other problems in Germany, and just focused on deporting ("remigrating") shitskins and manufacturing weapons. That last point unironically is import for rebuilding the industrial base and bringing some innovation back. Germany is the birthplace of rocket and missile tech (because the nazis were based and not soicucks) and should be again. There is too much stigma against military in Europe still because of gay commie boomers and indoctrinated millennial fuckwits. It needs to change and then nuke Israel unironically in Minecraft.

>live in germany
>high school dropout
>start working remotely for a california startup
>bar is ludicrously low, just being semi competent and able to articulate your thoughts pretty much guarantees you an executive level position in any startup within years
>$300k salary
>almost able to retire after just 4 years in the workforce

its literally so easy bros

>>60827668
I'm talking about my specific average rate, not the marginal rate.

>>60828081
How did you find the job. I know youre larping. But where to find such remote work with us pay. What industry youre working in? German failure here

>>60828081
yeah don't we all

>>60828336
Was NEETing for most of my 20s, then registered on >Upwork when i got desperate for cash.
Had previously built and published a bunch of (not very successful) apps. That "experience" landed me a gig at a small crypto company as pretty much employee #1 after they found my profile. Which was fun, but pay was not amazing and company went under after two years.
Luckily at that point i had done a bunch of open source AI work (this was post-chatgpt) which went somewhat viral and resulted in a bunch of people reaching out. One of these recruited me, and i'm still at that job now, just in a VP role after some restructuring.

Never applied to a single job myself.

>>60828392
man ai really took trolling to a new level. no longer do you need any skill to craft the most ridiculous ragebaits imaginable

>>60828417
Thanks anon, makes me feel like i've made it if my life story is so unbelievable people think it's ragebait.