Thread 60836426

So I've gathered a few things browsing this board

>economics and markets are either so complex or so fake and gay that they're borderline impossible for most people to understand
>thus most of you have no fucking idea what you're talking about
>the few of you who do know what you're talking about about have basically no incentive to share that information
>you're actually incentived to share misinformation and disinformation to exploit all of the people who have no fucking idea what they're talking about for their own gain
>so the board is basically useless for anything but economic trolling and shitposting with cartoon frogs

Does that about sum it up?

No, it’s that economically illiterate people never ever listen. Hence what’s the point?

Yes. Your best bet is to figure out how the markets are being manipulated and do whatever the manipulators are doing, and post as many frogs as you can along the way

>>60836426 (OP)
No you forgot
>buy link
The actual point of this board is to make you aware of link so you can buy it before it explodes later this year

>>60836437
Go ahead, I'm economically illiterate and also listening.

>>60836445
Markets are not "gay and fake" its usually just smart money frontrunning the people and then these people wonder why everyone already takes profit when the good news are coming in. And when they sell after bad news the frontrunners already buy and then the people see it going up after they bought and cope with "this is fake and gay"

>>60836475
*sold

>>60836475
This. The market is in a game trying to guess how fast the dollar is going to zero basically. So bad news will make the market go up a lot of times, because the entire economy will never be allowed to collapse like the great depression again. So money printing gets priced in. Good news means the fed won't have to lower rates, so the market dumps. You guys need to figure this basic shit out if youre ever going to win. The stock market is the lynch pin holding the whole economy together, all of these pension funds for millions of retired cops, teachers, whatever, need like a 7% return to stay solvent. The stock market is basically going to keep going up more or less until the whole thing collapses. So the game is more or less make money now however you can, and to try to store that into somwthing that will hold its value after all fiat currencies become toilet paper. Crypto, precious metals, land, etc

>>60836475
>Bad news bad, sell before the other retards

>>60836499
Bad news good, hold when other retards sell

This is what I'm talking about guys.

>You guys need to figure this basic shit out if youre ever going to win.

>The stock market is the lynch pin holding the whole economy together,
This I understand. We don't produce anything besides debt and financial schemes.

>>60836535
teh fuck are you doing here bro?

>>60836538
I want money and a fair amount of it. Now we can do this the easy easy or the hard way. Personally, I prefer the hard way, but if you would rather just give me money to go away then I may accept that.

>>60836559
/biz/ degeneracy prides itself on retardation and extreme risk. prescription for you is bet everything on 50x efferiumz short . Give that a go and call us when u feel better or have roped

>>60836426 (OP)
Yeah, I only make people aware of opportunities shortly before i intend to sell when I already have a big profit.

>>60836559
If you asked me anytime earlier i would have said just buy Ethereum and you would have made easy money. But now Ethereum is kind of high

>>60836598
But dont be sad, if i told you this in april you would have said im a scammer and not buyed it at 1400.

>>60836570
>>60836598
You cannot convince me that buttcoin is not a scam. I'm looking for more traditional boomer tier scams.

>>60836622
you dont belong here. get out.

>>60836622
>I CANT BE CONVINCED
See >>60836643 , why are you here? You belong to reddit with your close minded bullshit or to nu /pol/.
I just saw you are this guy
>>>60836645
>>>60836501
Same attitude
>I CANT BE CONVINCED NO I WONT EVEN WATCH YOUR VIDEOS
I hope you post only here on weekends

>>60836426 (OP)
ok dude. non brainlet here. ask your questions

there actually are geniuses on this board. or there were in 2017. it's lower volume now. occasionally i still see someone smart posting. anons are still recommending you buy link en masse so it isn't that retarded yet

if you can't filter signal from noise you are ngmi anyway. the best way to be able to do that is to have a basis that lives outside "it's this way" "it's the opposite way" so you can see who's full of shit. quantitative background helps.

paying attention to business over the years helps but money is ultimately gay

Yes OP you got it, now post some frogs or cute booba

>>60836445
I would look at firm leadership and organisational structure when investing, in comparison to financials. One financial metric that is important to look at is high ROE, but financial ratios only give a very small picture, they are static and describe the past. While-as management competence shows dynamic capabilities. My recommendation is also to look for firms with low dividends, if growth stocks are what you want. Finally keep away from crypto. At this point it’s a high risk, low reward sector. Think about the modern portfolio theory and its efficiency frontier - there is no way that buying crypto has enough return to justify the risk.

>>60836444
I think the actual point is to make everyone aware of the global adoption of crypto so they can buy Ripple and Vaulta before the narrative heat up.

>>60836426 (OP)
yes, you need to read /biz/ from the side whilst squinting to effectively filter out the noise

>>60836426 (OP)
Yes. Line go up or down.

>>60836445
Every asset/investment has a theoretical "fair price" which is a function of supply and demand, however information asymmetries in the market make the convergence of the market price to this fair price volatile. If you can identify investments that are in or should have demand but with a lagging low price, you can make a lot of money when the market eventually catches up. Also in the long term, you have to consider currency debasement and other macro effects like cycles into your asset allocation decisions, i.e. don't hold cash in a high inflation environment, don't hold risk assets in a deflationary environment. The majority of normies will never understand this so now you're ahead of the game. You're welcome.

>>60836445
The only correct school of economics is Austrian economics.

>>60836622
>I’m looking for more traditional boomer tier scams
Do you have a minute to talk about a new exciting startup? It’s called Hydrograph, $HG and it’s just about to get off the ground like Leo Frank

>>60836622

If you don't want BTC, then for boomer tier stuff you want s&p500, which will forever go up with money printing until the dollar scam ends making the value go poof. So throw money into that, then switch to physical metals and land before the music stops.

For sake of reference, most of my own wealth is in real estate, pms, and then some BTC, with the BTC being best performing in terms of percentage. I don't think the dollar will be around much longer; the way it's going, in ten years I can't even imagine it even being remotely functional.

>>60836426 (OP)
that's not how greentexting works. you have to lurk for three months before posting here.

>>60836643
>>60836652
I'm not leaving, I'm here forever and so are you, and I'm not Indian.

>>60836855
I'm a lower middle class poorfag with a mortgage on a liberal coast, trying to leverage that into being middle class in the Midwest with an eye on moving up to upper middle class. I want to do a cash out refi on my current place to gussy it up to max profits and have liquid capital to move. My question is what do I do from there? I can dump everything into a decent place and have no mortgage, low monthly expenses, and be able to invest extra income going forward. Or I can put enough down to have a managable mortgage and have a substantial amount left to invest, but where? High yield savings is like 4.5%, which in reality probably doesn't even beat inflation. Average stock return is generally measured at 7, realistically lower%. Real estate appreciation varies greatly but I expect it will slow down as markets correct slightly for overvaluation during covid. I always hear about how you should diversify your assets to spread risk if things go bad, but realistically that's just going to kill my returns when things are good. I've thought about investing in real estate, finding undervalued property in need of renovations and turning them into rental properties for passive income with occasional flips when I can avoid capital gains. I figured over time I could leverage all of that into building different businesses around that to serve as tax shelters and hopefully other sources of income. I have the skill set to do all of that and would have the capital to do it in that market, I just don't know shit about money because I've never had any.

>>60836426 (OP)
Economics and investing is more about feeling than facts. I use this board to get a general vibe check. You also want to check the news, and also what normies are thinking.

>>60837232
Painfully 110IQ.

>/biz/ - Business & Finance is all finance and no business
Kinda disappointing tbdesu guys

>>60836426 (OP)
I'm concerned now.

>>60836426 (OP)
Now you see why conspiracy theory mentality keeps people enslaved, dumb and demoralized. People can’t ever separate themselves from their “sure thing knowledge of everything is rigged so they choose not to play at all.

>>60839306
I don't't think looking critically at two back to back answers that are completely contradictory is really conspiracy theory mentality.

>>60836426 (OP)
No. The market is fake and gay, yes. Fiat is a massive scam. You have to store your extra wealth in something. Anything you store your extra wealth in people will be incentivized to make more of it and devalue your wealth. That's why you want to invest in something scarce. Basically store your wealth in:

- Gold
- S&P 500
- QQQ
- Bitcoin

The top is the safest but the least reward, the bottom is the riskiest but highest reward. You should store as much of your wealth in one of these things (or a mix depending on your risk level) as possible i.e. basically use QQQ or bitcoin as your savings account. If you can afford to store your wealth for at least 4 years, you will be fine because that is long enough to weather any potential downturns. Ideally you want to hold forever. If you can not afford to not touch the money for 4 years, work on fixing your life first. It's really this easy mate.

Your IQ level define your wealth, sum up all.

>>60839358
Oh and the last aspect is how do you acquire more QQQ/bitcoin? I wouldn't recommend trying to time the market. It's essentially a game of poker with a billion people. You have to basically do labor in order to increase your holdings, but once you have holdings, you basically get free fiat as they appreciate. Oh and also, economics is a completely fake science and economists don't know shit and literally every month there will e a "recession right around the corner article". Search recession before:[year] on google lol and you'll see they do this every single year.

>>60836426 (OP)
Economics is a meme science. It's impossible to make it if you're a wagie.

>>60836444
checked + true
that is the whole purpose of this board

>>60836426 (OP)
read Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. Mises institute has the PDF online for free and a free audiobook version

>>60836426 (OP)
>someone asks questions complex question
>get insulted, ignored, no thanks or anything
>thread goes away
>next day someone asks the same question

>someone asks for a good coin to buy
>tell them what to buy
>janny bans you

this place is only good for shit posting

(i'm xF6QCfnd >>60836855 )
>>60838360
hoo boy
on the bright side you seem motivated and that's really all that it takes
you sound like you are missing some background on your situation. as dumb as it sounds FIRE forums on the gay alien site, there are tiers of them, are good background for you. they are only going to tell you how to grind your way there
i personally don't play with real estate but it can be a way there although it's been oversubscribed lately.
HYSA is not investing. that is where you park cash. currently and most times it does beat inflation but only barely. you need bg. you cannot "make it" parking cash in an HYSA. this is the default place for all cash
if you are young, unmarried: maximize income, minimize spend, maximize investment. work remote in lcol. figure out how long it takes to make it in s&p index funds (probably a long time). figure out whether you make more owning or renting (and putting the extra in the market). maximize amount you can invest (cash out?) but be mindful of costs to do so. these are the broad strokes.
im guessing you don't make much so those basics are going to take you a long time to make it, unless you lean fire and find a ho that doesn't care you're broke.
so then to make it you need to find alpha (& preferably not beta) so you can redirect a portion of your boring investments
you are missing most of the tools to find alpha unless you luck into it. you basically have by coming here. there is a reason every dumbfuck on this board is shilling or fudding link since before ico. current mktcap is 17BB. speculative mktcap should probably be 50BB or more. if it reaches its potential it's easily worth 170BB or more (size of XRP), which is 10x floor. this is not guaranteed. learn how to run an expected value calculation, compare this versus market doubling (double every 7). if you can't do these things you're cooked anyway and may as well invest.
don't margin. don't lever.
BTC ETH and LINK are still better bets than s&p

>>60841179
Definitely missing information, admitted to being financially retarded. Not completely restarted so I can learn. I don't have expectation or desire to retire/die early, don't have a problem with grinding, ultimately I would want to do it for myself not someone else.

The heyday for real estate has gone. Overvaluation and interest rates makes things tough as people are holding what they have, have high asking for the situation if they are selling, people aren't buying. It's also making individual and institutional investors back off though. When interest rates do drop inventory will go up. The first ones will get hits at asking, but eventually it will stall and prices will have to normalize a bit of they'll just sit on the market like they have been.There's, opportunity in every stage of that I think.

I know HYSA isn't investing and I'm not big on the idea of loaning money to banks anyway. Job market is rekt, especially WFH. I'd be making good money if I wasn't where I am, my career pays the same in the Midwest where COL is halved, that's the plan short term anyway. If I put 20% down on a modest house there all said and done I can park six figures in investments. Doubling every 7 in S&P I'd be looking at 15 years before dividends overtake income, assuming no income growth and no contributions. If income is the same let alone grows I can put away a substantial amount and probably cut that down closer to 10. If it grows, as it should, less. I have no interest in speculating with borrowed money, that seems like a really kosher way to get fucked.

I can see that coins are more lucrative, but it's all just speculative from what I know. It only goes up because more people are speculating more, all consumer confidence like markets but with a smaller base that's harder to read. If it never turns a corner everybody is going to get rug pulled and it's just about how fast can you get out and leave someone else holding the bag. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>60836426 (OP)
It's simple, man. We buy PEPE.

>>60842636
>Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong but I don't have the patience to hold your hand through every single fundamental technical development and how they are changing the financial system. If you don't get it by now and have no will to research on your own then you'll simply miss out and that's that.

>>60842636
keep at it anon. you can make it
you can grind on FIRE. keep reading that stuff. it compounds.
> no contributions
if you're going to max FIRE grind, max 401k if you get matching from employer. also, enroll in DRIP
> dividends (returns) overtake income
ask ai about 4% rule. it's a better measure. if you can live on less, you don't need to overtake
making it-making it is going to take 1-5mm depending on how much you want to NEET or family
> I can see that coins are more lucrative, but it's all just speculative from what I know.
wrong. as an overall asset class, you are right. for the core assets, dead wrong. the explanation why is very long. the list of credentials i have is very long. BTC is core. BTC is in the whitehouse, dawg. this is not ponzi or tulips. there was a time period when govts could ban BTC. they seem to have missed the boat on that (longer conversation). BTC cannot rug at this point. it isn't underpinned by consumer confidence, BTC is backed by an irreplicable technological advancement. you can clone it (as many many have) but you cannot replicate its first mover advantage on a fundamental math protocol. it's over and done, you might as well say the internet is going to rug.
if your time horizon on s&p is fine then report to the mines. if you want to salvage some of your life you need to figure out a way to add risk. this is difficult because you don't have a filter (i am giving you alpha but I sound like a liar)
i can volley with you on crypto if you want to ask questions. only if you're legitimately on the fence. the cassandra events i've had over the years you would not believe.

>>60842789
funny how you talk about cassandra events but won't ever acknowledge the dwindling BTC security budget

>>60842766
I'm not asking for hand holding but the crash course would be great. I don't see how it's changing any financial systems by being an alternative store of value extracted from financial systems that only goes up because other people are storing more excess value they've extracted from financial systems there. It's entirely dependent on wealth generated within and removed from those systems. Your success and wealth is only measured in terms of what it's worth when you pull it back out vs what it was when you put it in. Until normies can buy and sell everyday consoomer purchases with it, it just looks like a pump and dump bubble that will inevitably pop otherwise. At that point there won't be any speculative gains to be had, it will be too late, but that' the only way it changes anything at scale. Until that happens, you're either just betting on that happening to realize gains or you're planning on rug pulling other bag holders. And I don't see how Bitcoin makes that leap with fractional transactions of 0.0000000183 bitcoin that's worth whatever it's worth today, that's not normie friendly at all. Tell me HOW I'm wrong.

>>60842766
>You're wrong but I don't have the patience to hold your hand through every single fundamental technical development and how they are changing the financial system. If you don't get it by now and have no will to research on your own then you'll simply miss out and that's that.
he is here in good faith. rocket scientist anons can take care of themselves. no harm in giving him a leg up
>>60842807
there are many outstanding risks. classical math could break crypto. quantum computing could become a reality. what if a bomb drops on your head right now? in all likelihood PoW will be fine until this guy exits

>>60842789
You make good points. I can see that the boat has sailed after nations are looking to it for sovereign wealth purposes. Whether they couldn't crush it or they didn't want to crush it is immaterial to the fact. It seems like the biggest risk would be CBDC, but Bitcoin would still be the prime mover in that space as you said and I think it would have to be forced on people through issues that would undermine their faith in it when it's already low. Anyway I'm not completely risk adverse - real estate and S&P certainly aren't guaranteed but they have a pretty stable, long record and if they go to utter shit there will likely be much bigger problems than the wealth lost - but I do think I'd want to hedge against potential investment in coin by diversifying into those things. And thanks anon for taking time to talk to me about it.

>>60842923
>extremely unlikely mathematical/engineering breakthrough risk
not worth worrying about, this would be equivalent to worrying about nukes tomorrow
>PoW will be fine in the short term
valid, but I'm pointing out a very real long term risk that is completely unsolved that nobody is really discussing

>>60842838
>I don't see how it's changing any financial systems by being an alternative store of value extracted from financial systems that only goes up because other people are storing more excess value they've extracted from financial systems there.
Because it is a unit of account that is not significantly debased by inflation, and because the traditional system is a unit of account that is, it moves inversely to fiat's value (it goes up as fiat goes down over long periods)

>Until normies can buy and sell everyday consoomer purchases with it, it just looks like a pump and dump bubble that will inevitably pop otherwise.
This is being built and adopted but there is also much, much more to blockchain/smart contract/oracle technology than just making simple purchases, think a more efficient secure version of every financial primitive (stock, contract, loan, etc)

>fractional values aren't normie friendly
What you're noticing is called unit bias and it is illogical because you can simply use a new unit without many trailing zeros, just as one uses millimeters instead of 0.001m

>>60842838
>>60842838
>Tell me HOW I'm wrong.
you're wrong because in a word you don't understand how money works. look at the currencies of island nations. they're small, they have their own seigniorage, etc. etc. and yet nothing breaks. think of BTC as an island currency, except it's bigger. it's simply an evergrowing island whose currency denominates electronic and global value instead of shrimp restaurants.
(it's actually 8th globally, more than the Canadian Dollar but less than the Rupee)
> Until normies can buy and sell everyday consoomer purchases with it, it just looks like a pump and dump bubble that will inevitably pop otherwise.
no no and no
the global economy does huge numbers that never touch consoomers
it's fine to say "I don't understand money" or "I don't understand banking". many smart people don't. however, the conclusion from that should be "i'm not qualified to make a judgement of any sort here" not "this is conclusively a bubble because I have applied my Fischer Price model of how I think things play out"
i use BTC as a stand-in for BTC, ETH, LINK, etc. since it's easier

>>60836426 (OP)
>complex
no, the opposite, tradfi just likes to pretend it's complex by using convoluted terms for simple things
>the few of you who do know what you're talking about about have basically no incentive to share that information
false, because that information doesn't actually spoil or prevent any positions
>share misinformation and disinformation to exploit
exploits are most of the time chump change
they're only performed by jeets who are dying to make 10k
>so the board is basically useless
not for the most part, but he janitor doesn't take rule 6 seriously, so we have a lot of spam

>>60842923

>classical math could break crypto

oh my sweet summer child.

without being too technical, i will put it this way.

whatever scenario that allows a SHA256 hash to be reversed in a meaningful amount of time is a scenario where bank security is also broken

>>60836426 (OP)
it used to be different

>>60844225
uh
i think it's far more likely that dlp turns out to be in P than a shortcut for hash preimages is found
why would you try to son me on a topic you are clearly not an expert in. are you into technical analysis too

anyway, it's not worth reading too much into your statement, which is confused/secondhand, but hashes aren't a prerequisite for bank security generally, you could construct a functioning encrypted network out of symmetric and asymmetric primitives, depending on how deep your break assumptions are (SHA specific, a certain class of cryptographic hashes, ...). obv you can reconstruct hashes with other primitives. so a specific patchable break...maybe...a general break no, banks march on. also kind of philosophically weird to predicate your security guarantee for cryptocurrency on the banking system it's supposed to obviate.

>>60836426 (OP)
Here’s a thing, buy high sell low, but most people can’t because they do impulse trading then blame manipulation or whales. If you buy the cheap price nothing else matters, but you have to buy bullish coins/stock having temporary correction, don’t buy falling knife.

People share the information it's just lost in the mess. And then it's hard to know whether someone was right or just lucky. That's why it's "impossible to understand."

>>60836426 (OP)
Here’s a thing, buy low sell high, but most people can’t because they do impulse trading then blame manipulation or whales. If you buy the cheap price nothing else matters, but you have to buy bullish coins/stock having temporary correction, don’t buy falling knife.