Thread 60880424

Why do people buy homes when it's cheaper to rent?

>>60880424 (OP)
People like owning, it’s a psychological thing.

>>60880437
Follow up Q: Is one better off owning a home or owning more BTC/SP500 while renting assuming net worth under 7 figs?

>>60880424 (OP)
i'm renting right now. i hate it because
>rent goes up every year by 5-10%
>only 850 square feet, no garage/workshop
>can't modify or customize things things that suck

leveraged appreciation, more space, more privacy, better for raising kids

>>60880424 (OP)
>Why do people buy homes when it's cheaper to rent?

Buying a house isn't a purely financial choice. You can't modify or renovate your living space if you rent.

>>60880424 (OP)
immigration increases home value, you can fix things yourself, government printing money inflates the price, regulations make it so new homes can't be built and gov't rent caps destroy low income homes

>>60880445
need more info

What are your goals What are your asset allocations How much money do you have Where do you live. How much do you make. How are rents compared to buying in your area. Do you want to spend time maintaining a home vs. doing other things.

>>60880452
trudat. live life on your terms bro you will not regret any choices that favor the indepedent direction

>>60880424 (OP)
Because it will be cheaper to own in tbe long term even if you have to pay more at first assuming you can pay the house off

>>60880424 (OP)
Perceived stability. You own the land, as long as you pay rent to the government (property tax) that will not change. It gives peace of mind to expand into a higher paying job with more responsibility, raise a family, and so on. Being under the thumb of a landlord will always have the average person in a slave mindset, you cannot mentally abstract away your subservience in paying an entity in the same way you can by paying property tax to the big overarching "government."

>>60880424 (OP)
-The cost of owning a home is more predictable than renting in the long run. Rents can fluctuate wildly within specific regions, which is being hidden by averaging. To actually pay average price for rent as shown in your graph, you'd have to move around the country all the time.
-Home ownership confers benefits and freedoms that are highly subjective, and cannot be quantified through simple cost analysis.
-If paid off and passed onto offspring, home ownership confers a huge financial advantage.
-Homes can be used for leverage, which negates opportunity cost arguments.
All of the arguments around home ownership versus renting depend highly on your life stage, your means, and your goals in life, and even beyond it. Don't rely on statistics without context.

>>60880424 (OP)
Rents in my city cost way more than mortgages, even taking initial fees into consideration.

>>60880424 (OP)
>housing bubble 2006
>no housing bubble 2019

>>60880502
Goal is $1.5M in SP500 and a paid off home while selling 3.5% a year to live off
I've got half a BTC and 85k in the SP500 so far. I'm in a LCOL spot in USA working remote. Rent is cheaper than buying here. I don't like spending time fixing things around the house vs hobbies

>>60880657
the graph is showing "cost to buy", not the actual price of the underlying home. the cost to buy is rocketing because of interest rates. prices have mostly stagnated over the past 4 years or so, and in some places even gone down significantly. meanwhile stock indices are at all time highs, inflation has fucked America in the ass no lube. compared to a big mac, house prices have ALREADY crashed.

>>60880424 (OP)
WHERE THE FUCK DO PEOPLE LIVE WHERE THE FUCKING AVERAGE TO RENT IS ONLY $1,845?!
That is the absolute minimum for a fucking mini condo behind the heating unit of an apartment complex.

>>60880729
hope you like Ohio

rent, health insurance is the reason why america is dying.

it is a ripoff. rent is paying for another vampires mortgage. you get nothing in return in the end.

america has more than enough land to create new cities. we have to make new cities, or america will die.

>>60880729
i live in the suburbs of philly (30 miles from center city) and i pay $1900/mo for an 850 square foot cuckpartment. i could probably find a place for $1600/month if i wanted to deal with an individual (non-corp) landlord or if i moved to a shittier neighboring town.

>>60880756
COVID WFH was the last chance for this to happen. instead we're going the other way with RTO as niggerfaggot politicians cry about 'muh poor heckin $20 salad and $10 cupacoffee small businesses' and executives demanding physical presence to make them feel less like colossal losers with no life outside of wageslaving.

>>60880424 (OP)
>pay rent for 20 years. Zero wealth, half a million spent with nothing to show for it except you payed someone else morgage off.
>pay morgage for 20 years. Own property and wealth. An assert worth $300,000 or more that you can do pretty much anything you want with.

>>60880807
>rent for 20 years and invest the 35k down payment and save an extra 2k/month from not paying a mortgage, interest, property tax, or maintenance. Enjoy more free time to grow a side business or get promotions at work. Have a fat $1.35m portfolio and could buy a house in cash if you really wanted to. Can easily retire now at your current standard of living, or move somewhere cheaper, nothing locking you down, endless opportunity and options.
>pay mortgage for 20 years. Spend countless hours maintaining and paying people to renovate it that rip you off at every step. House goes from $700k to $1.35m, but all that capital is locked up, you can't do anything with the money unless you put it up as collateral which puts you at the mercy of interest rates again. Can't even sell it without incurring 50k+ in fees and paying agents. Even just holding it requires ongoing payments of 4k+/year in property tax. On top of that you've waged 20 years and have 0 savings for retirement, so you need another 10-20 years of waging.

>>60880889
You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy.
>>60880807
SHUT IT DOWN

>>60880904
Is this thing on? All it does is spit out meme phrases

>>60880889
Where the hell do you live where rents are 2k a month cheaper than outright buying? Central NYC?
You realise that if buying a home wasn't worth it, then you wouldn't have every bank and financial institute hovering up every piece of land they can. The global return on invest for property vs equity is about 6% vs 7.5%. The difference is you're still going to pay for shelter no matter what. Unless you plan on living in your car or mother's basement until you're 60. Property is the only investment in which banks will throw money at you in order to invest giving you a huge head start on making equity.

Renting is usually a losing game. If you have the cash you should looking to own a home. Unless you have a lifestyle in which you will be moving around the country or world regularly or are so wealthy that you don't even need to think about these kinds of investments.

>>60880424 (OP)
>Why do people buy homes when it's cheaper to rent?
There is a cultural drive to "own a house" at all costs. They can't do financial projection calculations to understand that buying a house is silly. Mortgage/financial advisors are not interested in disclosing this fact immediately, it goes against their interests.

>>60880424 (OP)
Because some people play checkers while others play chess. Rent is just paying someone else’s mortgage plus their profit margin. Owners take on risk, but they capture equity, appreciation, tax advantages, and control. If you can’t see beyond “monthly payment cheaper,” you’re thinking like a tenant, not an owner.

>>60880473
But you don't have to pay for maintenance

>>60880445
Definitely own btc and rent

>>60881063
I'm a leaf so maybe our market is as fucked as NYC.
I live in a rent controlled 2 bedroom apartment for 1700/month. Average houses around me are 700k.
To afford a house, a minimum down payment is 45k, and at 4% interest that's a monthly mortgage of $3583/month. Add on $583/month in property tax, $50 insurance, 1% set aside for maintenance = $583. Your monthly is $4800/month.
That's $3100/month more than what I pay now.

Even if we were to compare buying an apartment vs renting an apartment, similar apartments to buy cost 450k and have $600-1000/month condo fees. $3k-4k/month property tax.
So 22.5k down payment, 4% interest = monthly mortgage of $2339. Plus $600 condo fee, $250/month property tax, 1% set aside for maintenance = $375. Your monthly payment is $3564.
That's $1864 more than what I pay in rent.
Even if I owned an apartment outright with 450k, I still have to pay $685/month. It would have to appreciate substantially year over year to be worthwhile. The condo fee and property tax are certainly only going to increase as well.
I'm better off just investing, with 510k a 4% withdrawal rate entirely covers my $1700/month housing expense.

>>60881196
Ok fair, I didn't know the Canadian real estate markets were so fucked. In your position it definitely makes sense.

In your inforgraphic even buying the picotop on a fixed rate has only 10 years before the rent monthly surpasses, and after 30 the payment falls off a cliff and goes to only taxes

>>60880424 (OP)
have you considered suicide? you faggot

>>60880424 (OP)
Cheaper to rent what? There are no rentals around here for the kind of house I want to buy

>>60881113
most landlords dont pay for maintenance either.

>>60880424 (OP)
A significant part of the payment you make when you buy a house goes towards the principal of the loan depending on the length of the loan, how long you have been living there, and whether you make additional payments.

Payments toward the principal of the loan are building equity. You are converting your money into another asset, not simply giving it to a landlord.

If you were to pay $1800 a month in rent (a figure likely to go up) for 10 years, after 10 years you would have paid $216,000 towards housing and own exactly $0 worth of a house in the end. You just pissed away over $200k by saving money

If you were to pay $2700 a month for 10 years paying off a house worth $216,000, you would then own a house worth $216,000 and never have to make another major payment for your housing. You'd be $216,000 wealthier than the guy who thought he was saving money by renting, and he is also stuck having to continue paying rent likely more than it was 10 years prior.

Does that make sense to you? By purchasing something you aren't pissing money away like you do when you rent. You are transferring value from one asset class to another.

>>60881895
he knows, he's pretending he doesn't know. it's why he should kill himself

>>60880424 (OP)
What is missing from your chart is the capital appreciation of ownership. You might pay off your mortgage at 32k/year, but at the same time your equity increases by 60k. Rent is always a guaranteed 100% loss. This is why home ownership is the predominant method of wealth building for the middle class.

>>60880424 (OP)
>doesn't know what equity is

>>60880606
gpt-slop retard faggot

>>60882072
op you fuck. got me. i fell into his fucking trap like a retard. what a nigger.

>>60880424 (OP)
Because I don't pay rent anymore or a mortgage.

>>60881063
>Renting is usually a losing game
Only if you have down syndrome and don't know how to invest
If you threw your money at fucking anything within the past 20 years, you would have been far wealthier than buying, and you're not bound by location

>>60881196
this will always be the case for anywhere worth living in the world
genuinely not worth wasting any time in shithole provinces / states / countries, especially when you're young

>>60881895
>>60881928

IQ 80 posts on /biz/

That's not how it's compared. And with a house you have huge opportunity cost. A house is like a very average company you would buy shares in. While the renter could buy Nvidia (or Silicon Valley Bank if he's stupid) with the money the buyer can't access for years.

I had a realization the other day that the current housing market reflects just an obviously failing financial system. I've watched in the last decade as stores in good locations stay empty for years on end. Not just in major cities but anywhere that people want to live. A newly built office building in the dead center of the most popular area of a local town was left empty for the past 3 years. A local bakery closed due to financial issues despite being well liked and relatively popular. Nothing ever replaced it.
This is not how the world works in a functioning economic system.

Im not knowledgeable enough to blame it on overregulation or immigration or the failure of capitalism as a whole, but I know that it isnt working correctly.

>>60882177
I looked into leasing commercial real estate and this shit is ridiculously expensive. Frankly, I don't know how anyone affords it except the most high margin popular stores, and even then I imagine most of their profit is just going to pay the lease - so what's the point?
Building owners are probably incentivized to keep fees high, dropping prices means losing money across the board for them and they don't want that, and keeping prices high means only the big players can play ball.
It's a shame because owning a building is mostly playing middle man for maximum value extraction. If overnight all lease pricing dropped 90%, literally any business would be profitable and you'd see new businesses everywhere with actual lower prices for goods and a healthy competition.

>>60882177
Skill issue.

>>60882136
you're so retarded you should also kys. it's like telling me how i should have bought pants instead of a shirt

>>60880424 (OP)
i'm just gonna preface this by straight-up saying i'm not a nazi sympathizer like most of you
but i did grow up poor
so your mileage may vary

this is such a ridiculous question for so many people that it comes off as insulting. like, because i might want to, you know, put up pictures? i might want to buy a heat pump, or renewables and home energy storage? i might want to put in good insulation, and firewalls? i might want a fucking front door that using doesn't make me want to fucking kill myself? because i want reasonable fucking autonomy over my own space, without having to consult the fucking god of any given PoS OSB box? there's so much value to ownership that isn't factored into the sheer dollar amounts which you can look at and say "renting is cheaper"; when you're renting, you can barely make meaningful moves that will put you (and in the case of renewable energy, others) ahead, and the landlord sure as FUCK isn't going to do anything for anyone but themselves (in all but the most exceptional cases)
but it doesn't even fucking matter. we're stuck on this shithole planet with one-another for fucking eternity, and so many people have decided they'd rather drag on someone else (FOR ""FUN"") at every opportunity than live a happy life. if you're poor, it's a nonstop neverending nightmare of drugged-up mentally ill faces mogging you from the time you can walk to the time you fucking DIE. and then you try to begin to make a difference, and get called a retard until you never want to try talking ever again. fuck this fucking place and all the dense and hateful fucking people we'll be again. fuck it all.
fuck you for tacitly participating in this bullshit. fuck me for scrolling by while some shithead is talking down another anon for daring to fucking care. fuck. this. planet.

>>60880500
Look, scapegoating arabs might be fun but the problem is not just immigration, look at the land and building policies as well. The government literally makes it hard to build new houses anywhere. This artificially constricts the housing supply, and when living infrastructure can't catch up to population growth, you end up with this chart. There's also an incentive for that, since banks and wealth funds tie a ton of their net worth to property, so they need it to always go up. It's a system that benefits those already on the ride.

We need literally need to reform a bunch of outdated policies since we have self imposed fuckery going on if you want to fix housing affordability.

>>60882602
Just live in a van or something. You're taking this too seriously

>>60880437
>it’s a psychological thing
Yes this exactly. I am currently debating to buy another place or rent. If I buy, that's like 100K of my money tied up. If I rent, that 100K initial payment is all investable after the next bear market, with much higher returns. Even knowing this I'm still psychologically stuck on "owning."

I don't know why I'm posting this but I had the very real and visceral realization the other day my wife and I can't afford a house that's not in the literal fucking ghetto or a teardown.

It really sucks. Can't live rural, jobs in the city. Not a big NE city either.

If we stretched and lived not in the ghetto we'd be house poor.

I assumed I would purchase a house when the time came to start thinking about having a family, just never really worried about it. Have cash for a down payment etc.

But realistically I can't and it sucks.

>>60882612
Basically it's a housing shortage

>>60881851
Kek tru

>>60880502
you don't need more info to answer that

>>60882136
Yes, if you are a degenerate retard you could gamble with your housing payment and potentially become rich down the road by renting and putting everything you make into whatever dumb thing you thing will go parabolic.

If you are intelligent you budget your housing payment as wisely as possible so that you end up owning your home and you can gamble with whatever disposable income you have left.

Taking money that could guarantee you a better future if you use it to build equity and eventually own your house and gambling it on crypto or the stock market is profoundly retarded. You may as well go do crack under a bridge.

>>60882910
Building equity in a tiny shitbox is still better than renting

>>60880452
Just live in a car faggot and tell the landlord to go fuck himself.

>>60880424 (OP)
I'm living with my parents but still working and this is becoming worse than being a NEET.
Why am I am wasting all this time at a job if it gives me nothing?

>>60882795
it's called a HELOC nigga

>>60880424 (OP)
Because land is literally the only currency that matters, and owning a land means you have a place in this world

>>60883254
Being a slave to a loan is not "building equity" you absolute fucking retard

>>60883457
Yes because cars are totally known for being over 850 square feet and having their own garage/workshop.

>>60883501
You can't own land in most of the world, there is no way to get land patents since principalities, municipalities, royals, and parishes already own and hoard it all, so all you can do is rent from them in the vast majority of cases.

>>60883553
Yes it is because you can sell back what you paid in for a profit as long as you don't violate the terms of the loan, you generally can't move out of your rental and get most of you spent in rent back in sales income.

>>60883583
You absolutely can get land everywhere in the world. You just won't get land in NYC for cheap or whatever dumb shit your expecting.
I always find it hilarious that RE bros always pretend like they are "building equity" when they have to pay maintenance+mortgage which usually already far outstrips rent, and then they STILL have to pay off the loan, but they pretend like rent is "pissing away money" yet somehow that isn't?
And then you'll tell me house prices have doubled in the last 20 years or some dumb shit, well have you looked at the stock market or crypto?
A loan is a liability plain and simple. The only reason you'd ever buy something with a loan is if you believe you absoluely HAVE to live there and you can't rent it or buy it outright.

>>60880424 (OP)
Why do you always end the chart at that specific year? Its not like we dont have data for 2023 and 2024

>>60883603
>You absolutely can get land everywhere in the world
You can utilize it from a principality, municipality, monarch, or parish if you agree to the land use terms of the deed and pay taxes in accordance, but you can't get land patents and own it outright in nearly all cases any more.

I have drawn you a picture

>>60880424 (OP)
if you have a huge morthage youre tied to some shitbox
your neighbourhood can turn to shit, your house can burn down or a hurricane can ruin it or whatever or you just dont like it there anymore
if you rent you live riskfree
thats the huge difference
if anythign goes wrong just call your landlord and he has to fix it

>>60883695
>if you have a huge morthage youre tied to some shitbox
Same with a lease

>your neighbourhood can turn to shit, your house can burn down or a hurricane can ruin it or whatever or you just dont like it there anymore
if you rent you live riskfree
Or the neighborhood can become great, new services and locations could open nearby that triple its value and instead of making off like a bandit, you can be kicked out after you lease ends, so the landlord can quadruple the rent.

>if anythign goes wrong just call your landlord and he has to fix it
He has to fix it his standards, not to yours, you could be dealing with a bunch of random thirdies having access to all your stuff 24/7 because the unit nearby is having a lot of plumbing issues or whatever and the landlord hires the cheapest help possible.

>>60883723
did I forgot mention the housing market can also turn down
and then youre also FUCKED
when you rent you have ZERO risk

>>60883732
No I just explained the risk, when you rent, if the value of the house goes up, your rent might skyrocket and you are out on the street, its why renters, especially older ones, are always going on about gentrification.

>>60883743
you can just move
again, zero risk
but youre always tied to your shitbox and your mortgage

>>60883744
another thing
you can rent wherever you like
but you cant buy a house whereever you like
the options for buying a house are extremly limited
usually some boring suburb noone wants to live in
and then youre tied to that shit for 30 years
its almost slavery

>>60883586
Do you know what a loan is lol? You aren't getting your interest payments back. Neither are you getting anything back for repairing your roof.
>>60883634
Oh I see your some retard arguing (incorrectly) about irrelevant semantics. You don't need land patents for anything and they won't be of an use to you anyway. You just seem generally low iq consuming the wrong kind of content on the internet.
Home "ownership" is mostly about lying to impress other people. Its all a collective deception of american debt slaves pretending like they "own" what they are a slave to.

>>60883744
>you can just move
Only to a more dangerous neighborhood, literally risking your life in the long run because you aren't smart enough to fix your own stuff in the short run.

>but youre always tied to your shitbox and your mortgage
>>60883750
>and then youre tied to that shit for 30 years
No, you can sell it for a profit and move somewhere just as easily as you can move from a rental except you only get your security deposit back when renting instead of all the gains of the real estate market.

>>60883752
>You aren't getting your interest payments back.
Yes I am, I am righting them off so it comes off my income.
>Neither are you getting anything back for repairing your roof.
Yes I am, the new roof adds value to the house which I can profit off of in the sale which I can still do with a mortgage unlike your bullshit never owned shit poverty myth that thinks you can't sell a house until you fully pay the mortgage.

>You don't need land patents for anything
You need it to actually own the land instead of having to pay rent in the form of taxes or face eviction by the state that does actually own it.

>>60883756
>No, you can sell it for a profit
ah yes the "profit" when the housing market turns down
nice joke

>just buy a house at the top of the market
>what can go wrong, just trust me

>>60883773
Yes, if you are halfway through your mortgage, its still likely profitable even if the market is temporarily in a slump. If you are quickly flipping it, its likely profitable and you are taking advantage of the down market with actual skills you have acquired by repairing your own stuff instead of begging your lord to send his servants to take care of you.

>>60883780
>new affordable rentals will always be available at the top of the rental market
>what can go wrong, how could you possibly end up homeless or living on skid row surrounded by crackheads when I decide I can get 3x more from other people, just trust your lord.

>>60883766
I can see how your desperately trying to avoid cognitive dissonance.
>>60883766
Like I said you just seem to be low iq. Do you know what a tax deduction is? Its deducted from your TAX, you don't get your money back, are you actually retarded? Partially reducing your tax burden doesn't somehow mean you aren't paying interest.
Just because they gave out land patents 200 years ago has no bearing on whats happening your life today. Just because some chudtuber told you "youre le hecking sovereign!!!!" if you have some worthless paper doesn't mean the government can't just do with your land whatever it pleases if it so does. You seem extremely gullible, exemplified by the fact you somehow think repairing lost value from a damaged roof somehow "adds value".
Bet you think adding a pool "pays for itself" too hahahahahaha

>>60880424 (OP)
it's cheaper to do neither

>>60883840
>I can see how your desperately trying to avoid cognitive dissonance.
No, in one case I am talking about owning land and in the other I am talking about owning the deed and the property not owning the land itself.

> Partially reducing your tax burden doesn't somehow mean you aren't paying interest.
You didn't even read what I said, I didn't say there isn't interest, I said your (taxable) income is reduced by the interest amount, so you do essentially get it back as income.

>Just because they gave out land patents 200 years ago has no bearing on whats happening your life today.
It has a bearing on whether or not individuals and families can actually directly own land (as you falsely claim) or if people generally just lease land from a greater organization (as is the actual case).

>if you have some worthless paper doesn't mean the government can't just do with your land whatever it pleases if it so does.
It means you are not legally obligated to rent from the government and pay taxes if you own the land by patent as opposed to lease it by deed, the legal paperwork is worth the cost of the annual taxes.

>exemplified by the fact you somehow think repairing lost value from a damaged roof somehow "adds value"
Anyone can literally just internet search how much value a new roof tends to add to a house and see appraiser generally add 10-15k
https://homeinspectioninsider.com/how-much-does-a-new-roof-affect-an-appraisal/

>Bet you think adding a pool "pays for itself" too hahahahahaha
Adding a garden does and you can't put those in most rentals to grow your own food without begging your lord.

>>60880889
Lmao, this person doesn't know how to do their own home repair and maintenance work. They are forced to be bled dry by drunk Hondurans, lmao

>>60880445
putting your homes down payment in btc instead and renting mogs the FUCK out of owning. You only need btc to appreciate 20% a year for it to cover 100% of the rent and anything above that is PURE profit. So $200k down payment and wage for an additional $1,000,000 over thirty years (nearly double the initial cost considering interest, to own a cardboard box that is not going to appreciate nearly that amount) or just buy 2btc and never have to wage a single second again for it.

>>60880889
>save an extra 2k/month from not paying a mortgage, interest, property tax, or maintenance.
Wrong, you are paying someone else's mortgage, interest, property tax, and maintenance in the form of rent without any possibility of getting it back in return when you sale.
If you did it right and locked in the interest, you also likely pay less interest than your lord after a few years.

>Spend countless hours maintaining and paying people to renovate it that rip you off at every step.
You would still be paying your lord to do all that instead, but it may jeopardize your work since its not on your schedule and your lord may need to have you return to the unit at your inconvenience.

>Can't even sell it without incurring 50k+ in fees and paying agents.
Only if you have your renters mindset where you have to get someone else to do all the work.

>Even just holding it requires ongoing payments of 4k+/year in property tax.
You have to pay capital gains and fund fees for your portfolio too and that those taxes aren't as closely protected and stable as real estate, assuming you don't have to pull out a bunch of your money on a big market downturn in which case all of that paying rent to hold stock was for nothing and you just lost out on real estate profit.

>On top of that you've waged 20 years and have 0 savings for retirement,
No, the same stuff you are putting aside renting, they are putting aside owning, they just likely have more space for hobbies and a garage of their own where so many businesses are born.

If you want to rent a place thats comparable to a house you will pay out the ass.
I guess you could get away cheaper if you rent a very small place and live a minimal life, but a house really has many benefits.
Can be loud, can modify it as you like, get a garage and hobby rooms.
I'd love to have a proper work shop and a home gym. But renting a place with that would be retarded.

>>60881895
Your math is terrible the majority of the first 2/3 of a mortage payment goes to interest and tax on a typical 30 year loan you would have about 20% equity and thats not including 10 years of maintenance expenses

the only people "saving by renting" are poors living in tiny apartments or shitty houses, you couldn't rent my current house period, rentals aren't allowed in my area because it's viewed as allowing undesirables into the neighborhood.

This is biz so I am assuming most of you aren't poor so why would you live in someplace shitty? Your living place is one of the things you absolutely should spend more on for a better quality of life.

>>60880424 (OP)
You build equity as you repay the mortgage, you don't get that with renting.

>>60884420
With renting, you still build equity by paying off a mortgage, its just that you are building it for your landlord by paying off your landlord's mortgage.

>>60883868
>Adding a garden does and you can't put those in most rentals to grow your own food without begging your lord.
There are some HOAs that will tell you "no gardens" as well.

>>60883904
>If you did it right and locked in the interest, you also likely pay less interest than your lord after a few years.
As a leaf we can't even lock in interest for more than 5 years.
>Only if you have your renters mindset where you have to get someone else to do all the work.
Only the homeowners that value their own time at $0 think all the maintenance and renovations involved with home ownership are no big deal.
>No, the same stuff you are putting aside renting, they are putting aside owning
Wrong, see >>60881196
Renting is 1700/month, owning a house after everything is $4800/month. If I'm making 100k/year, that works out to after-tax monthly income of $6166, leaving $1300/month for food, car maintenance+insurance+gas, internet, cell phone. You are house poor, even if you scrimp and save, you can barely reach $500/month in retirement contributions.
Compared to renting, where if I scrimp and save I'd have $3666/month in retirement.
Now sure, the owner will be getting some equity from paying the mortgage, about 1100/month worth, but that's still a fraction of what it is and relies on the house growing like 7% every year just to break even with the renter.

My favorite part of about debt slave "equity builders" is that they are paying hundreds of thousands in interests over DECADES in which nothing can ever go wrong or they'll go homeless, and then when their hecking "it only goes up" house is finally worth the same as what they paid for it including interest, that number is useless to them anyway.
If you got a house for 500k that is now worth 900k, so is everyone else's house. Meanwhile the smart person who put that into ACTUAL equities is now has almost 2 million liquid without having a panic attack every time he thinks about becoming homeless because he got fired and can't pay his mortgage anymore.

because the house increases in value? Its an asset you own? instead of putting the money into the void? are you retarded? is this rage bait? why am i even alive?

>>60884437
Is there anything more cucked in this world than being a rentoid?

>>60880437
>>60882795
>>it’s a psychological thing
It's not merely psychological: there's no guarantee you'll get a lease renewed, then you're shipped off to some some new place regardless. People don't like this. They want the certainty of setting roots down in one place. That's more than psychological - that's evolutionary pressure so old it dates back to early agrarian age.

Home ownership hasn't been worth it since they exceeded the historical 3X avg annual salary price.

Real estate is just a place for rich people to park money these days, not a place for people to grow into and start families in.

>>60880424 (OP)
I bought during the dip where it's cheaper to buy

>>60880424 (OP)
>Why do people buy homes when it's cheaper to rent?

>>60880424 (OP)
Equity. Assuming prices always go up.

For the typical person it's probably better to buy because most people are financially retarded and it essentially forces them to save. For people on this board who always have their capital invested calculate your annualized returns if you've been investing for at least five years, be honest with yourself as to whether you have a fairly consistent win rate or it's just been lotto tier shitcoin wins, and then make the decision.

yeah why pay 3000 a month when you can pay
2000 a month that increases by 200 every 6 months forever? makes no sense buh. do the smart move buh

>rentoids actually believe this

>>60883820
how the fuck do you go homeless by avoiding buying on the market top, you shekel grabbler

>>60880424 (OP)
Reminder that if you don't own your dwelling, you don't own anything inside of it. Your landlord can change the locks and your only recourse is months of legal proceedings. Good luck accomplishing that when you're left with nothing but the clothes on your back and whatever's in your accounts.

>>60883499
>HELOC nigga
Thanks. I like playing with house money more than loans, but will look into the options. Greatly appreciated.

>>60887135
more like:
>pay $250-300k, then $8900/month for 30 years, then $1900 in property taxes and insurance forever
or
>pay $100k, then $6500/month for 30 years, then $1400 forever, and pay $200 more in electricity due to scorching heat, and commute for 1 hour more every weekday
or
>pay $70k, then $4000/month for 30 years, then $1000 forever, say bye bye to your high paying job, and move to the middle of nowhere where you have no friends
or
>pay $5000/month to live in a much better house than any of the houses listed above, save money, then retire and buy a small house by the lake

>>60882177
Chekt. I used to be an electrician that worked on town homes, condos, and apartments and many of these places 2+ years later still can't find people to move in

>>60880424 (OP)
Hedge against inflation.

>>60883651
okay, now what about having hundreds of thousands in the stock market? what will that look like in 30 years?

>>60880452
for me it's no garage/backyard

>>60883899
Yes this is the issue here. Its not renting v buying, its holding 2 BTC + renting vs buying. I'm seriously considering not buying and renting in pc rel with 2 swimming pools, downtown Chicago location, michellin restaurants everywhere, no taxes, no maintenance no condo assessments... and end up with $1.5 million extra in 5-8 years.

>>60889071
forgot pic of aforementioned rental

>>60880424 (OP)
Honestly feel bad for you zoomers. my mortgage is $850 a month.

>>60889049
Garage and backyard is all that matters to a man. I’ll sleep in a 1 bed trailer home with a 5,000 sq ft shop on 10 acres.

found this in ohio
yes i am aware there are blacks and property crime. looks incredibly decent inside, check the pics. why is this good property? it surely cant stay this low forever. when California collapses all the rats will flee to low CoL places like Ohio.

>>60882602
>i'm not a nazi sympathizer like most of you
So what are you doing here, commie.

>>60889290
It will stay that low as long as your chances of being murdered every day stay above 1%

>>60889994
huntsville is one of the safer cities in AL, far below the national average in violent crime. it makes me suspicious why the prices are so low, obviously some of the homes are wrecks but that one is pretty nice and had a good bit of space. sure it's 100 years old but if it's solid then it's solid.

>>60885001
Imagine being a leaf and thinking you have any leg to stand on regarding purchasing property. Your math and logic is completely fucked

>>60880424 (OP)
that looks almost exactly like the gold chart

>>60889290
>when California collapses all the rats will flee to low CoL places like Ohio.
lol
low CoL places like Ohio will collapse long before that and that $64k shed will need $10k worth of sandbags to be a good FoB

>>60880424 (OP)
The only ones who are winning are the ones who live with their parents and work from home.
The savings must be insane.

>>60889075
It’s typically way cheaper to rent these high rise units than buy them. I rented a high rise unit (not chicago) and a third of my rent alone was the cost of the monthly association due. Factor in property taxes and its probably half the rent gone right there. The only way the math worked was for owners who bought at least a decade ago. If you purchased today you’d have to rent out the same unit for at least +$700 more, which the market won’t bite. Condos are frankly a bullshit investment.

>>60880424 (OP)
I was renting.
Making lots of money.
Life on easy mode
Then I got sick
Thought I might die.
I didn't want to die in a rented apartment.
I wanted to die in my own house
It really bothered me, seriously.
So I bought a house.
Now live in house.
Still work.
Still makes lots of money.
Haven't died yet.
Fuck.
I just don't know anymore.

>>60880599
this mindset is so weird to me
i am a voluntary rentoid
to me the ownership of things is a tax on my understanding of my physical space. renting is thus fewer problems and zero long term commitment. eventually i will buy but i'm not looking forward to it
i have a corporate landlord which rarely intrudes on my peace, there are tons of market options where i am. i think about it no more than I think about getting milk from the store; if one place has bad over overpriced milk i'll go elsewhere. milk is regulated. the "milk man" isn't telling me what to do or getting one over on me, and it isn't worth his time to do so. i never feel like a slave to the milk man, nor do i feel compelled to buy my own cow.

>> Perceived stability. You own the land, as long as you pay rent to the government (property tax) that will not change.
> upkeep costs
> liens from contractors
> unpaid taxes and other liens
> insurance costs
> property taxes
> mortgage payments (lol)
> covenants
> hoa fees
> hoa assessments
> city
> county
> state
> federal, eminent domain
> acts of god (wildfires, floods, ...)
it's mind boggling to me that people think their home is somehow radically more secure than a rental. you are always under the sword no matter where you are.

>>60880889
i never talk real estate but im learning how stupid the RE community is
you are getting lit up because you are right and RE drones view their ownership as part of their identity ("im literally a lord now") instead of one more watery consumer purchasing decision like whether to buy shirts from Hot Topic or Dillards
nobody wants to admit they made a six figure mistake and so they repeat the most confidently bad math

can I get a gf I buy a house?

>>60880424 (OP)
>Why do people fuck their wife (owner) when they can have some BBC fuck their wife (renter)?

This is how you sound.

You are either the bull or you're the cuck.

>>60880424 (OP)
I don't like sharing walls with brown people, it's worth the premium

>>60880452
I've been at the same place for 6 years. Rent has never increased. 1600 sq ft with covered garage. Big yard on both sides. Lots of paved parking for guests. Fully furnished. Not pissing away money on making some bank's house "mine". $680 rent/$90 utilities.

because people are retarded

I just plugged in the numbers for the apartment I rent and the cost to buy the same apartment. And this assumes Boomer tier 6% stock returns. If I put in the CAGR for BTC instead of stocks renting would come out way further ahead.

Buying a home in the current year is literally the worst financial decision you could make in life.

>>60892752
even though you have incontrovertible math that shows that buying is gay and retarded how do you respond to >>60892564
who has informed me that buying a house made him into a sexual bull and that he isn't the least bit gay

>>60880424 (OP)
The graph doesn't show what you think it does. It shows that renting is cheaper (in terms of your monthly costs) than ENTERING THE MARKET at high interest rates. What it doesn't show is asset appreciation, inflation, your own monthly costs remaining relatively flat despite these and relative to the increase in rent across the 30 years of your mortgage, and that in 30 years you will have near zero monthly costs. It also doesn't show the potential upsides of the massive amount of debt that you're in either.

>>60883899
I put zero down and now my house is worth 2X what I bought it for in 2018 and my interest rate is 2%.

>>60892970
First time home buyer on a VA loan

>>60892821
You’ll own nothing.
And you’ll be happy.
And you’ll pay me rent.

>>60892752
Your owner will increase your rent. I aim for 1-2 times a year.

>>60892977
Yes

>>60889188
My ideal house is basically just a big garage, with an upstairs apartment. Shit I'll even take just the garage and live in it.

>>60893037
Will the owner also claim the massive BTC gainz dude made from renting?

I plan to buy a fourplex next year and become a landlord

>>60892752
what about renting out a house you bought, while living in it?

>>60892623
this

wife and i are raising kids on 15 acres - about 2 of them are cleared, the rest are dense forest, don't hear/see any neighbors

there are (6) golf courses within 10 minutes of me, as well as a meijer, kroger, target, hockey rink, movie theater, menards, dozens of restaurants/fast food

my kids are at a 94% white 5-star school that has a whopping 1 nigger (400 student school)

i cannot believe people are choosing apartments with niggers over this, or even cookie-cutter subdivisions with zero privacy over this

psychology > math

>>60880424 (OP)
Equity

>>60894211
You're living the American dream, anon

>>60880424 (OP)
imagine lmao