Thread 60881462

The Citadel of Financial Freedom Edition

Monero is anonymous internet money. Unlike all other coins, nobody can see what's in your Monero wallet, not even the government. Thanks to this property of fungibility, among others, Monero is the only crypto that can actually be called sound money, comparable to physical gold.

Easiest way to buy (de-listings can't stop us):
>have any crypto
>swap on trocador.app

The Citadel is under attack! If you care about anonymous/fungible/private digital money existing at all, stack as much monero as you can. If you care about financial freedom in general, stack monero. This will raise the coin's security budget. You can also easily mine on a CPU. Monero has the most active economy in crypto. For example, you can buy and sell goods and services on XMRBazaar.com. Invest in your financial freedom! Become a part of it.

Info dumps:
https://pastebin.com/raw/0AxVPSra
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org

Previous thread: >>60875915

>>60881462 (OP)
Thanks, now the thread actually looks clean: both in terms of the info organization and in terms of the ideology.

Marschad thread: 300 replies from different anons.
Bakecel thread: 100 replies from the same guy using different devices.
Can we say the era of commienero is over?

>>60881528
It is what you make it, Anon.

>>60881528
Not before people actually start coming to monero for ngu. Right now many in the community still believe that trying to build an economy without getting people interested by the ngu first is possible, which proves to be wrong.

Are there any people here who actually tried to explore the code of serai/monerod and contribute to it? Would be interesting to learn about how the development process works and where it's best to start.

>>60881591
I try to read the commits occasionally but I'm far from a C++ god. The best way to start is to be in the Monero IRC/Matrix channels:
#monero-research-lounge:monero.social
#monero-research-lab:monero.social
#monero-dev:monero.social
#monero-community-dev:monero.social

>>60881462 (OP)
So what's the current distribution of views on best mining approach, including:
>merge mining
>New ASICs on a new algo
>ASICs on an old algo
>GPU mining
>Solo only mining
>Combined CPU & ASICs, localPoW

XMR mining should be profitable.

>>60881616
Thx. C++ is bad news, maybe I'll have more luck with serai since it's written in Rust. Should be easier to work with.

>>60881739
monerod is C++. There is alternative implementation being developed in Rust called cuprate.

>>60881692
>merge mining
The argument against it is that we don't want Monero to be dependent on another coin, and that the other coin's miners would just attack Monero instead of mining it. So they're going to say no thank you to extra money and attack monero because it's competition to their coin, even though that did not happen with LTC and DOGE. I don't know.
Also does anyone know how would this look on technical level in context of being dependent on the other coin?
>New ASICs on a new algo
Easy to single out and attack on regulatory level. ASIC manufacturer centralization/permission concern.
>ASICs on an old algo
This would still make us vulnerable to something like Qubic because our miner profits would still be low compared to how much ASIC are out there and those can be rented or straight up bought to attack.
>GPU mining
Besides the fact GPU mining is just mining that has not got its ASIC yet, it does not address Qubic style attack again, because there is a lot of GPU out there to turn against Monero.
>Solo only mining
Interesting but work around may be possible.
>Combined CPU & ASICs, localPoW
If it can't be worked around like being able to get away with a remote connection to ASIC, it sounds promising.

In case anyone is interested, a bot has been keeping bakecel general alive for months, if not years

4+ hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60691393#p60707116
4+ hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60258206#p60267159
2 hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60258206#p60268697
7+ hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60258206#p60271777
5+ hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60258206#p60277972
7 hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60258206#p60288882
3 hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60258206#p60291079
4 hours between posts: https://warosu.org/biz/thread/60246950#p60252956

>>60881800
>This would still make us vulnerable to something like Qubic because our miner profits would still be low compared to how much ASIC are out there and those can be rented or straight up bought to attack.
Not really. The idea is that currently there are too many CPUs readily available to attack monero, no additional moves required. If you require any additional piece of hardware that doesn't usually happen to be installed in a PC, it makes qubic-like attacks very unlikely because it requires buying a bunch of otherwise useless hardware, which costs money, time and effort. Botnets are getting btfo'd as well, which is a good thing because honest miners will have a chance to not mine at a loss. But this obviously works better when you keep the reliance on CPUs, aka local PoW.

>Also does anyone know how would this look on technical level in context of being dependent on the other coin?
Monero research launge room has some hints on that.

I love the new general
I hate the faggot bakecel OP

>>60881838
Kek. Not sure though if it's just another schizo theory like they have about us being some twitter raiders.

samefag

>>60881528
>Bakecel thread: 100 replies from the same guy using different devices.
Everyone I dislike is the same person
Don't forget that I make up over 50% of your previous, false general

>>60881849
This was just 5 minutes of searching. If you go through the archives to the bear market this happened at least a dozen times every single thread. Always when it hit page 7 or 8 on the catalog. It was even admitted a few threads ago that the bakecel OP posts are done by a bot

>>60881856
Thanks for pointing out it's you so we can ignore you from the start. I hope people itt have enough patience to not fall for your dumb not based in reality provocations again.

Reminder: This fake general exists only because moonfags always get btfo'd in the real general (>>60875937). Take a look which general looks like one from months ago and you'll see that this one is just an impostor for ngu.

It's ironic how much bakecels seethe that they have to leave they "comfy" as they say thread and go to ours.

>>60881868
You know you can't, I'm the vehicle that drives discussion here. Without me some of you would still think that a code fork would split the network (>>60877587)

>>60881871
We care about you falsely representing XMR

Just a friendly reminder that that neet above advocates for mining at a loss, not hoarding monero despite that it reduces network security which is crucial when it's under a successful 51% attack on the network, constantly pretends to misread others' posts twisting the meaning in his favor, and when he's proven to be wrong, just starts going in circles on the same communist arguments that fail in practice.
He's able to do it almost 24/7, apparently, it's some mentally ill neet.
Just ignore him, the only thing he spreads is lies and misinformation that hurt monero in the end.

>>60881731
Based.
>>60881462 (OP)
Love the simple OP.

>>60881849
Also the empty posts are always done by OPs ID

>>60881901
>Mining at a loss
Yes
>not hoarding monero despite that it reduces network security which is crucial when it's under a successful 51% attack on the network
Saving is fine, keeping XMR solely so ngu isn't. Also it won't help if there are no miners.
>constantly pretends to misread others' posts twisting the meaning in his favor
Completely incorrect
>just starts going in circles on the same communist arguments that fail in practice.
Communism isn't when you're allowed to have a private, anonymous and functional currency.
>He's able to do it almost 24/7, apparently, it's some mentally ill neet.
Oh no, you're a wagie who can't work from home? No I get why you need ngu.
>Just ignore him, the only thing he spreads is lies and misinformation that hurt monero in the end.
If you had ignored me the previous false general would have had over 50% less posts

>>60881692
RandomX cpu mining is good. The problems are selfish mining, price too low, and potentially Qubic's trick of offering all possible merge mining rewards plus a bonus shitcoin. First problem seems to be the simplest and will probably be solved by "publish or perish" proposal or similar. Second problem is partly up to us to band together with the power of positive thinking. Third is trickier and I haven't though a lot about it.

>>60881692
I think we are stuck with RandomX and CPU mining, for better or for worse.

We should get monero mining something bringing profit, and something that gets you more than dust amount XMR coins.

The best way to the former is Monero gettting upwards price pressure. So... Hoard it. Put your moneros to your cold storage (USB stick running tailsOS, which has Feather Wallet). Aspire to get to double digit monero piles.

The latter is being done by having bigger mining setups. Instead of a single computer mining monero, once we have the price pressure allowing for it, we can have a garage full of CPUs and motherboards. Kinda like how comfy ETH mining was back in 2017-2021.

I am not for merge mining with LTC with or any other blockchains. Monero should be free and sovereign.

>>60881947
>Aspire to get to double digit monero piles
Double digits? Ngmi. Triple digits and no less!

>>60881947
>We should get monero mining something bringing profit, and something that gets you more than dust amount XMR coins.
Case in point: >>60879274

>>60881960
I have also an insatiable hunger for bigger monero piles as I do have the same for big tit beautiful women.

First I was like:
>compiling monero
Then I was like:
>piling monero

>>60881968
A man of culture, I see.

>>60881692
>merge mining
Not trusting Charles 'conflict of interest' Lee to stand up to the regulators, but it's not the worst idea

>New ASICs on a new algo
Lmao

>ASICs on an old algo
Lmao

>GPU mining
Lmao

>Solo only mining
Allegedly can be circumvented. Would also kill p2pool

>Combined CPU & ASICs, localPoW
Only idea I'm a fan of, but we can't implement it while qubic is attacking. We need the hash power from the botnets

>>60882023
>>Combined CPU & ASICs, localPoW
Tell me more about how ASICs & localPoW

>>60881947
ETH mining was comfy because not only the coin was top 2 mcap, but also because the fees were insane. Miners were comfy but users were becoming pink wojaks seeing the fee every transaction kek. Monero fee can rise but not that much. Basically below $1 is good. Below $0.10 is great.

Wow, he's literally me... financially speaking, of course.

*hard rock*

If I do not receive my daily dose of pixel Monero-chan AIslop, I will simply perish!

>>60882272
It's actually kinda surprising richfags don't use it en masse to hide their assets. If they did, I bet the price would've been much higher.

>>60882035
this >>60875664
And pic related

>>60882272
das rite

>>60882281
So many just don't know. Even most people in crypto don't know. I hope anons have richfag friends to shill.

>>60882281
Probably because the onramping isn't too easy for massive amounts of funds, the future of selling is unclear, if some billionaire heavily invested the market cap would jump up and most importantly bribes and tax trickery. I personally don't want to imagine what kinds of shit storms we'll have once XMR is in the news because shlomo childfuckerstein laundered billions through XMR.

>>60882287
ty anon. I will take a look at it tomorrow.

>>60882295
Well, it's inevitable that monero will be shown in a bad light in mainstream media. This is what comes with privacy and fungibility. But on the bright side, it will at least make people aware of monero's existence.

>>60882306
Undoubtedly, I personally hope they mess up and show it in something like the shinyflakes documentary which really was just PR for DNMs

>>60881692
I would say combined CPU & ASICs, using a new algo, so monero can't be attacked by bitcoin maxis. In this case ASICs would boost mining by a 10x minimum against CPUs.

>>60882415
>using a new algo, so monero can't be attacked by bitcoin maxis.
In part I agree with that but simply requiring new ASICs isn't enough. They need to be ubiquitous too otherwise an APT could easily suppress the access to the ASICs or purchase large amounts to still be the de facto majority miner.
>In this case ASICs would boost mining by a 10x minimum against CPUs.
If we follow >>60882287 then mining itself wouldn't be boosted at all. So the only way that mining would be profitable is if the amount of miners reduced so heavily that each of the new miners gets a massive boost in their share of the reward. However, the biggest risk with this approach is that there needs to be some guarantee that one ASIC is connected with exactly one CPU and that changing the connection would uneconomical. If that isn't a given or easily circumvented any threat actor large enough to 51% us already would only need to make small adjustments to its current set up to 51% us again and that's not even considering that the amount of miners will likely reduce.

Is "mining" XMR akin to having sex with monero-chan?

>>60881937
I save to invest in the future, and I invest in my savings

.....did the bake sale thread get called due to rain?

why is this allowed?

>>60882943
I repeatedly flagged it as spam. You're welcome.

>bakecel OP absolutely and completely BTFO
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>60883082
>>60883129
Devs stepped in to declare which chain was canonical. XMR General is officially centralized. It's over moonbros. My proof of shitposts are now worthless.

https://xcancel.com/ofrnxmr/status/1962134631672623127

Based

>>60883295
Lmao, that'd be funny if bakecels have been dumping money into Qubic's bank account. Bad for Monero, but funny.

Retards need to step back from their headless chicken running around to implement bandaid fix after bandaid fix and first figure out if their worldview fits reality.

>>60883129
kek. where did he go? I thought they were "lots of people" having a discussion there.

>>60882031
I setup the blockchain and gupax. Instead of straight up buying XMR I am contributing. I plan on keeping it on during time on my main pc. Just as a side thing. I don't have mining rig nor plan to. My pc is a 7600x 4070s 32gb ddr5 750w psu. So its not cheap to keep always on. But I like contributing

As someone with very little understanding of Monero, one of the problem I see with what you guys call "bakecels" is their inability to not be extreme

I'm not saying cuck out and try to get Monero regulated, but normal people don't really want to take interest in your project if your selling points are :
>WOW look at this anime girl PANTIES
>f*ck it get Monero, NEVER PAY TAXES AND LOOSE YOUR GUNS IN A BOATING ACCIDENT

Again I understand those are mainly jokes, and I'm not even saying I disagree with some of the arguments, but regular everyday people get freaked out by those kind of behaviors, try to be more normal

>>60883916
>"bakecels" is their inability to not be extreme
This is especially the case when it comes to their boneheadedness about increasing the adoption, getting more people buy and hold Monero, and have a bit of a upwards price pressure that way.

Bakecels *insist* that the only price pressure should come from increasing adoption on the darknet markets.

I am not opposed to that, but obviously (looking at the price performance, and qubic situation) the darknet adoption couldn't push the price upwards enough to make Monero chain security budget adequate to fend off qubic-style attacks.

Let us have more people (non-junkies) buying, and holding, and storing Monero on their own wallets. Then we can make them pay for stuff (email, vpn, xmrbazaar, and more).

>>60883129
Lmaooo
I think this is the ultimate indication that bakecels' limp dick ideology is worthless. Too bad those retards are going to migrate to our based moonchad thread now and keep yapping the same shit because they never learn.

>>60883265
We've rolled out the Publish or Perish hotfix, and apparently they were not publishing, so...

>>60883930
It really is a 'one hand washes the other' thing. Buying XMR supports the economy; the economy supports buying XMR.

it's fucking over

>>60881731
Newfriend here. Why is this considered a controversial idea?

>>60883916
It's actually incredibly easy to mild-shill to normies. Just tell them you keep your money in Monero to hide it from those evil criminals who kidnap people for their crypto. Tell you only accept Monero because you don't want to deal with the tainted coins in case the money comes from some criminal.

On Bitcoin Xitter I constantly see posts telling people to be careful when coming to conventions or doing P2P because people can see if you're a wholecoiner and how there are stories of people being robbed or even killed over it.

When the topic of crypto comes up, I mention how the only crypto I deal with is Monero and that's for safety and liability reasons. I tell how all other cryptos have the basic flaw or making all the transaction open for everyone to see. If you point it out to them, most people instinctively understand how that's fucking retarded. It just doesn't feel right.

>>60883419
They could have done better keeping that money as monero or even buying ads for people to buy. All they have to do is buy monero and tell people why they should buy monero (to hide their money from dem criminulz).

>>60883799
You can also make sure to set the process CPU priority to minimum and it shouldn't interfere unless you're gaming.

If you retard are done fighting each other real quick:

I've been taking a look over qubic real quick. Yes it's a scam, everyone who isn't a fucking retard knows that. Ignore that shit for a minute.

The odd thing I found is their requirements on the github to run a node

>Bare Metal Server/Computer with at least 8 Cores (high CPU frequency with AVX2 support)
>At least 2TB of RAM
>1Gb/s synchronous internet connection

Not only that, you can't just run a node. You need mr. Pubic's blessing to run a node; which means he's vetting every single node that comes into his network. And with spec requirements like that, you can bet he's only allowing people with high end server cpus, the same types that would give a really high hash rate if say you're mining RandomX.

...

Guys is he just mining monero with obsfucated code? Like I understand his entire premise is scamming people with "AGI" on CPUs, but is he just literally running a monero botnet with server hardware?

How much would fees need to go up at current transaction volume to make mining profitable? I'd think people buying illegal shit would largely pay higher fees.

>>60884529
Possibly? But in this case I can't find any information on what a 'node' even does. Does it mine? Validate txs? Is it a quorum participant? Who knows.
Some other anons floated the idea that he has +7k X5s at his disposal mining XMR and is renting the rest of the hash. Seems far more likely

>>60884529
>>Bare Metal Server/Computer with at least 8 Cores (high CPU frequency with AVX2 support)
>>At least 2TB of RAM
>>1Gb/s synchronous internet connection
insane shit

>In September it is strongly recommended to accept $XMR payments only after at least 30 confirmations

https://xcancel.com/c___f___b/status/1962083649186062617#m

Are we ready?

>>60884546
Depends on what you mean by 'profitable', If we try to match BCH's raw block rewards with more expensive fees, for example:
>BCH: 3.125 ~ $1750
>XMR: 5(0.6) ~ $795

Approx. 87 txs take place over 10 mins in XMR for ~$0.12 per tx, so
> 1750 = 795 + 955
>955/87 ~ $11

So call it 91x. Now let's do Litecoin:
>4(6.25) ~ $2736
>2736 = 795 + 1941
>1941/87 ~ $22

So call it 185x. Now let's do dogecoin
>10(10000) ~ $20836
>20836 = 795 + 20041
>20041/87 = $230
So call it 1920x.

All the while you should keep in mind that a MoneyGram costs $9 to send in the US and $11 just about everywhere else.
The numbers here would be worse if we tried to match their block reward + fees.

>>60884868
Is it fucking over?

>>60884868
Who is this faggot again?

Also >>60883799
I decided to use Retoswap instead of buying from cake wallet as initially planned.

>>60884324
Basically, a lot of the Monero community, when they were kids, had the thought "government bad, what if it went away and we just bartered?", and they never grew out of it.

The devs & certain community members are pretty much communists. They have said clear out that mining shouldn't be profitable, that it should be a service you (the miner) pay for, for the privilege of participating in the network. If they admitted that people operate according to free markets and the profit motive, rather than voluntarism and ideology, they'd have to admit they've wasted much of their life

>>60885101
>Who is this faggot again?
CEO of qubic

>>60884546

My math is off here>>60884958. About 175 txs take place every 10 mins, not 87. So the actual numbers are about half as bad as I stated.

BCH: 955/175 ~ $5.50
LTC: 1941/175 ~ $11
DOGE: 20041/175 ~ $115

But at these fees you're still better off just using Walmart2Walmart or MoneyGram imo

>>60885268
Ah an useless faggot I get it.
I wanna rape Monero

>>60885269
I don't think I would like to pay more than a dollar for tx fees. It would invalidate lots of microtrandaction usecases for monero. (Donations, xmrchat.com, etc.)

>>60883916
You hear that more often in this thread. Regardless of what some coomers or le epic based ancaps say the points of XMR are quality, anonymity and being completely fungible through the former two.

>>60884324
It isn't. It's controversial to claim mining should only be done when you make gains off it because every other P2P or decentralized project works without a financial incentive and the guaranteed functionality is in itself something to strive for.

>>60884529
Pretty much everything about his project glows massively. What struck me is how he changed his tune from wanting to 'help' us for a month to picrel

>>60885412
>It's controversial to claim mining should only be done when you make gains off it
Gains encourage more miners securing the network. I am not saying "mine just for the gains" but, again, encourage more people to sdcure the network.

>other p2p projects
I2p, tor, etc. are not blockchain, crypto currency projects. They do not have financial incentives baked into their technical protocol. So, comparing XMR to them, and then drawing premature conclusions from it are misleading.

>>60885488
>I am not saying "mine just for the gains"
I am saying that precisely this will happen. Miners will come since they think this is the next ngu and will leave as soon as another project will offer better gains. That's how qubic markets itself to attract the most idiotic people in all of crypto. We'd solely enter a rat race to keep the new miners who are only in it for the gains.
>I2p, tor, etc. are not blockchain, crypto currency projects. They do not have financial incentives baked into their technical protocol. So, comparing XMR to them, and then drawing premature conclusions from it are misleading.
That argument absolutely reeks. For all of the projects mentioned people invest their time, money, hardware and bandwidth but because in XMR you get something back you need to get more back? These projects work because they realize that the underlying good that is supported is worth the trade off so anyone should realize that if you get even more back it means you shouldn't demand more, especially since miner rewards can only be improved by ngu (have fun pulling that off) or fees that disincentivize smaller spendings, severely holding XMR adoption back among normal people.

The worst part of this discussion is that people make it seem like I or the people against the whole 'only mine when you make GAINZZZZ' mindset is that we are against the gains. We are against the mindset of mining only being good when you make bank of it.

>>60885488
-> >>60881901
It's useless, you would have better luck explaining this basic stuff to a fish. If you don't want to turn this thread into his endless retarded monologue, better just ignore him.

>>60885613
>We need more people
>But we can't even 'explain' our shitty theories to this guy who's already 99% in
And that's why you've always lost

>>60885580
>I am saying that precisely this will happen.
1. How do you know?
2. What's wrong with it if it is enough to supy blockchain protection?

>>60885580
>That argument absolutely reeks. For all of the projects mentioned people invest their time, money, hardware and bandwidth but because in XMR you get something back you need to get more back?
What kind of argumentation is this? You are pointing at other projects and expecting Monero to also be subject to the same dynamics and praxeology. I don't buy it.

>>60885640
>And that's why you've always lost
Lost what? What are you even talking about?

>>60884546
Mining is already profitable for some. We want to make it profitable for more people. It's not a hard wall. It's a graph very dependent on electricity price and total block reward. Increasing the reward invites more mining, more hashrate. Even increasing fees a little would add to the hashrate, and I think we should invite every hash we can.

You can of course mine with no regard to profit to help the network, but this will always be a tiny portion of the total hashrate.

>>60885401
Fees should be no more than a dollar, ideally less than 10 cents, but they should not be less than a cent or two or even three.

Of course the dollar fees change with the price, but I think you don't need a hardfork to constantly adjust them. It can be done on node software level by having their minimum relay fee change in a version update if the price ever changes too much.

>>60885675
>1. How do you know?
Because the amount of potential miners that are just too poor that can't afford a single digit USD amount of loss per day but otherwise would happily stick around is extremely low, especially since often you get a few percent off with XMR purchases.
>2. What's wrong with it if it is enough to supy blockchain protection?
Some retard like chud from slavistan will come along and promise higher rewards and drive away our miners. He's partially doing that already if you take a look at his twitter.

>>60885678
>You are pointing at other projects and expecting Monero to also be subject to the same dynamics and praxeology
>Other projects demand: Electricity, hardware, time, money and bandwidth
>Other projects give in return: Nothing or access to a small community
>XMR demands: Electricity, hardware, time, money and bandwidth
>XMR gives in return: Small amount of XMR dependent on the size of the network.
So you can donate roughly the same and get something (mining XMR) or nothing (other projects). Some projects even burned its original defenders like Session and still they got supporters now.

>>60885688
The discussions. The 'mining needs to be profitable' argument already was around and already was ignored before the glowing 51% attack.

>>60885722
>The discussions. The 'mining needs to be profitable' argument already was around and already was ignored before the glowing 51% attack.
Highschool debate club? And what did your side "win"? The 9 block reorg attacks, as Monero's miners are not adequate to defend against reorgs by a literal who? You make no sense, again.

>>60885722
>Some retard like chud from slavistan will come along and promise higher rewards and drive away our miners.
The only reason is too few dedicared machines are mining Monero. Monero's hashrate is 5 GH/s on a good day, which is pathetic. Monero's hashrate should've been at leasr 10x that. Then, we would see how the qubic attack unfolds.

>>60885733
>Oh this totally wouldn't have happened if we were profitable, not like qubic is using the same exact marketing
I'm just sure you'll beat the glowies at their own game. How about for a change you start talking about how you want to make mining profitable?

>>60885746
>Then, we would see how the qubic attack unfolds.
With more glowie money. Don't forget that he apparently has no limits either when it comes to time. Y'know normal stuff for regular threat actors and totally non-glowie people.

>>60885760
>How about for a change you start talking about how you want to make mining profitable?
Encourage more people to buy and hold Monero on their own wallets. Encourage people to support Monero that way: by creating an upwards price pressure. This way Monero mining becomes more profitable. So, miners can afford more machines, better setups, more laymen gets interested in mining, etc. This is it.

You say people should "mine at a loss" to support the network. I say people should buy and hold more Monero to support the network.

>With more glowie money.
No defenses work against a hypothetical adversary with infinite money. So I won't take that argumentation serious. Other whose we should concede defeat as glowies possess "more money" always anyways.

>>60885786
>Encourage more people to buy and hold Monero on their own wallets.
Ok, how many billions are you investing now? And how will that encourage vendors to implement XMR payments? Tip: Saying 'Well someone might spend it in 20 years' doesn't count.
>You say people should "mine at a loss" to support the network. I say people should buy and hold more Monero to support the network.
In fact only one of the two directly supports the network. Question: How do you prevent more miners mining XMR while it's still financially unprofitable and keeping it unprofitable for all?
>Other whose we should concede defeat as glowies possess "more money" always anyways.
Glowies aren't invincible but you will not out-money them. You can out-mine them when you stop pushing that 'Uhm sweaty you shouldn't mine if you don't make more off it than from your day job'.

>>60885809
>And how will that encourage vendors to implement XMR payments?
I didn't say anything about "not spending", so I don't know what you are going off about.

Pricr appreciation is a good form of advertisement among the newcomers, so, attracting them can bring in merchant adoption as well.

>How do you prevent more miners mining XMR while it's still financially unprofitable and keeping it unprofitable for all?
Rephrase your question as I can't make sense of it.

>You can out-mine them when you stop pushing that 'Uhm sweaty you shouldn't mine if you don't make more off it than from your day job'.
1. You mine at a loss
2. Glowies don't
3. How do you win against glowies?

How doed your financial loss give you a " plot armor" against the glowies?

>>60885844
>How doed
*How does

>>60885844
>I didn't say anything about "not spending", so I don't know what you are going off about.
You said 'hold'. You didn't tell me how many billions you are buying (or how many are needed to satiate you).
>Pricr appreciation is a good form of advertisement among the newcomers, so, attracting them can bring in merchant adoption as well.
We're #29 when it comes to market cap. So you'll need a lot more money to be noteworthy to normies that already got burned by all other ngu tech. What you should do instead is focus on the qualities we have.
>Rephrase your question as I can't make sense of it.
1. XMR gets more profitable but miners still don't make a profit
2. New miners join
3. Now all miners still don't make a profit
How do you prevent this?
>2. Glowies don't
They do until they 51% us
>3. How do you win against glowies?
By them needing to make a win one day. If they solely burn money and get nowhere there's no reason for them to continue and they'll just set up another bounty to track XMR transactions.
>How doed your financial loss give you a " plot armor" against the glowies?
1000 people taking a loss of a dollar a day is very different from one person taking a loss of 1000 USD a day.

>>60885882
>You said 'hold'.
Yes. Holding doesn't exclude spending. You can do spend and replace the amount you spent back into your wallet.

>We're #29 when it comes to market cap. So you'll need a lot more money
Every bit helps.

>How do you prevent this?
Price increase. Also, you are ignoring unprofitable miners can leave and make room for other miners with more efficient setups.

>If they solely burn money and get nowhere there's no reason for them to continue
Glowies will outspend you in all cases. Meanwhile you will fail to pick up the pace in adding new hashrate to your network. (This is the current situation btw)

>1000 people taking a loss of a dollar a day is very different from one person taking a loss of 1000 USD a day.
See above.

----

Anyways, what happened to your own thread, man? Where are other bakecels, whi were saying "how comfy" your thread was?

>>60886019
>whi were saying
*Who were saying

>>60886019
>Holding doesn't exclude spending.
That's a funny definition. I don't disagree with you buying XMR, keeping some in your wallet and spending some on vendors.
>Every bit helps.
Sure but we're 25B USD away from touching the top 10. Until then I don't see much of a purpose in making this an ngu game.
>Price increase.
Well you've got you've got a goal now. Please let us know when you invested the first billion into XMR through various different channel so you're not deanonymized.
>Also, you are ignoring unprofitable miners can leave and make room for other miners with more efficient setups.
You meant to say they *could* leave, just like profit oriented miners when the next ngu coin comes along.
>Glowies will outspend you in all cases.
So why is your strategy about spending then?
>See above.
They will outspend me personally but to outspend a decentralized international community is way harder
>Anyways, what happened to your own thread, man? Where are other bakecels, whi were saying "how comfy" your thread was?
One of your retards (>>60883082) repeatedly did false reports and made the gooned out CP jannies think that the general that looks like the last 100 confirmed and real generals that it's spam despite us not being the ones who needed two different generals before the bump and image limit were hit. Funny that he requires people who do it for free to push his wrong agenda.

>>60886073
The schizo generals make use of bots to post the OP and advertise drug markets. Clearly the beloved jannies were just enforcing the rules of the board while pruning a duplicate thread.

>>60886144
>The schizo generals make use of bots to post the OP
Wrong
>advertise drug markets
DNMs are normally not focused on drugs and were the first places to accept XMR.
>Clearly the beloved jannies were just enforcing the rules of the board while pruning a duplicate thread.
>Sides with the pedos
>Doesn't see that keeping >>60875915 (despite it not having hit the bump or image limit) and this thread in the catalogue at the same time is being a duplicate
Why did you retards bake this one anyway? Was it because I was the reason for over 50% of your posts?

>just make mining profitable, bro
>Implygbin it's not

This narrative has been bugging me to the point that I decided to run some more numbers. Turns out it might be a self-inflicted psyop.
Both a X5 and a sealminer A2 cost around 3k if you shop around. Neither are profitable if you pay much more than $0.145kw/h for electricity, so it's as fair of a comparison as I can find
The X5 and the A2 are roughly equally profitable if XMR ~ 0.003 BTC (~$332), which isn't THAT far from where we are now.

Sauce:
X5: https://whattomine.com/coins/101-xmr-randomx?hr=212.0&p=1350.0&fee=0.0&er_enabled=true&er=0.003&cost=0.1&cost_currency=USD&hcost=0.0&span_br=&span_d=24&commit=Calculate

A2: https://whattomine.com/coins/1-btc-sha-256/asics/371-bitdeer-sealminer-a2-air-cooling

No, the maths aren't perfect, but...
Maybe instead of putting their money into researching optimal cookie recipes that maximize profits, Monerobros should be putting the money into researching optimal mining setups so that XMR mining is competitive with BTC mining?

>>60886455
Am I doing something wrong?

>>60886680
Just werks on my machine?
Those numbers in your screenshot are for the current XMR:BTC ratio of 0.00236776

>>60886744
>Hardware cost = 0
What?

>>60886744
Bro... you literally have the "hardware cost" field right there. Are you trolling? Of course you'll need to first make up for the hardware costs before you make any profit.

>>60886759
>>60886756
Not trolling. I'm assuming $0 hardware costs for both. Whattomine doesn't calculate the ROI correctly on the A2. Probably because it's too new

https://whattomine.com/coins/1-btc-sha-256/asics/371-bitdeer-sealminer-a2-air-cooling?hr=220.0&p=3630.0&fee=0.0&cost=0.1&cost_currency=USD&hcost=1000000&span_br=1h&span_d=&commit=Calculate

>>60886455
>researching optimal mining setups
Ngl, a cypherpunk-coded XMR mining machine would be cool. Monerospherr should've had a company like bitaxe, bht, alas, bitcoiners have it. Shameful display.

>>60883082
>>60886073
Okay you guys this isn't funny. I just got word that the OP of the original XMR generals OD'd and died. You assholes took away his entire reason for living.

>>60886994
I guess you could even say he's kicked the flour bucket.

>>60886994
>I just got word that the OP of the original XMR generals OD'd and died.
Acceptable loss.

is it kill

https://files.catbox.moe/ncn70n.mp4
wasted.. wasted...

>>60887469
based

Is matrix dead?

>>60887681
Matrix.org homeserver is having problems

>>60887761
Who knew there's a drawback to being de facto centralized

>someone posted my maths comparing different security budgets on Leddit
>Unstoppable Wallet posted it on xitter
>Unstoppable Wallet: "Is this true?"
>Dashpay: "Basically, yes"

https://xcancel.com/unstoppablebyhs/status/1962823818189349299

>>60887787
I know. I am more of a IRC(v3) and xmpp guy.

>>60881462 (OP)
Is the Quibit fud over? Is it safe to buy back?

>>60887883
Based, I'm personally more heavily vested in Session but I see why anybody would say it sucks ass

>>60887896
Didn't check hashrates yet but I feel >>60885412's picrel should say enough.

>>60887896
It won't be safe to buy again until the lack of miners issue (due to unprofitability) is addressed properly. Qubic have just exposed the reality that XMR can easily be 51% attacked and killed by any major nation state within a few days if they want to.

>>60887911
>heavily vested in Session
Why not simplex? Session doesnt have perfect forward secrecy.

>>60887947
Sounds bullish. Can't wait for the bear market to slurp that dip hard before the issue is properly addressed.

>>60887970
>Why not simplex?
Simplex is the most glowing messenger I ever saw. It came from nowhere and immediately gained massive traction, it's designed by two nobodies, it's completely overengineered and it isn't even preventing IP leaks ootb.
>Session doesnt have perfect forward secrecy.
The devs argue it would only affect decryption if the highly skilled threat actor already has complete device access, it which point they could already access messages through other ways or have way more attack vectors that come from non-session sources (like the OS).

nigga I fucking hate bakecels. monero price and hashrate will climb regardless of how much they seethe.

monero is a store of value. I will not spend my neros on a stupid ass bakesale just to "support the network", I can just use fucking cash for that. this is real life. grow the fuck up.

you autistic niggas live in fantasy land. it's time for real niggas to take over.

Is it me or is qubic having issues getting hashrate now? While I did put forth the theory of their sophisticated botnet, that at most is like what 300 - 500 mh/s if it's all top of the line CPUs? Now they're having issues renting out hardware it seems, as they can barely get 15/100 of the blocks. Is it because the top three pools now have nearly 3 GH/s combined and he can't compete with it? Maybe an indicate he's running out of funds for his little scheme?

btw mine on p2pool.io

>>60887788
>security budget
explain because it sounds stupid

>>60889143
The settlement time for a transaction is equivalent to the miner's profits. If miner's are making a ten thousand dollars a day mining legitimately, there's no incentive to fuck with a 10 dollar transaction. But if you try to send a million dollars worth of monero while miner's are making peanuts, there may be incentive to fuck with you.

Basically, the greater the miner's profit, the more people will want to mine legitimately, the less relative benefit there is to attacking the network.
https://archive.is/u4Axq

>>60889130
After 8 hrs of mining for nothing I understood it's not profitable to mine from a personal computer I can't keep up forever.
So I'll leave mining to others.

enjoy

>>60887883
For me it's bitchat

>>60887788
Impressive that dogecoin is safer than litecoin.
So 7500 should be a reasonable target for NGU. We need to spread the word, monero is currently sitting at mediocre 270. Miners have to dump everyday to cover their expenses.
NGU is the only solution to everything.
NGU is the only real path to freedom. Everything else is empty discourse.

>>60890046
why don't you buy then?

>>60890046
Dogecoin is only a medium term NGU target. Even having the budget of doge wouldn’t be enough to really defend against a state.

NGU will eventually reach Bitcoin territory.

>>60889619
Reminds me of Douglas Tuman pleading to the 100 viewers watching his show, "pls run the miners guise"

Btw, why is Monerosphere so barren when it comes to content/podcasts? We need other podcast hosts with different perspectives out there.

>>60889146
>But if you try to send a million dollars worth of monero while miner's are making peanuts, there may be incentive to fuck with you.
How much is safe to send? No more than 100xmr?

>>60890339
>Btw, why is Monerosphere so barren when it comes to content/podcasts? We need other podcast hosts with different perspectives out there.
Ask bakecel, he and his pals are the ones responsible for this desolate landscape.

>>60890046
>Just ngu bro it's not that hard

>>60886455
Mining is profitable if you have a low enough electricity cost. People should run their calculations. The benefit of raising miner reward is not to increase the profit of individual miners, but to increase the total hashrate.

>>60886971
It's called building a PC.

>>60887469
>omg someone mentioned us!
This is how I know we're still early. When even the people who're into crypto say "What's Monero", that's how I know we're early.

>>60887947
You're just perpetuating the chicken and egg problem. If you want more hash to come, keep stacking.

>>60888887
"Haha Monero lets me hide my internet money, you can't see it" is basically unbeatable NGU tech. Maybe I'm crazy but I think people who have not understood this are the crazy ones.

>>60889143
Miners are paid in some sum of Monero. The higher the Monero price is, the more this sum is worth. This sum per hour or day or whatever is basically the security budget. The more the security budget is, the more mining becomes profitable, which means more people start mining. More people mining will then make mining less profitable, but the new balance points becomes more total hash rate for the network.

>>60889146
>>60890548
Not how it works. Miners can't see the transaction amounts. You can send whatever you want. That's not the problem.
The real attack vector is stealing from exchanges. Depositing monero, selling it, then doing a reorg on the chain and reversing the transaction. A double spend.

>>60889619
Sorry but you guys who go "I mined a few hours and didn't earn anything" are the classic newfags of mining in general. Mining is something you do running your rig 24/7 for months on end. From a single CPU in a month, your profit will be like $5 anyway. Home mining for profit has always been a stupid idea. This is not exclusive to Monero. I've read the same complaints from people wanting to mine ETH back in the day.

>>60890046
Why would it not be? DOGE mcap is higher than LTC.

>>60890616
It really is not. Keep stacking the Citadel brick by brick. Keep spreading the gospel of the Citadel of Financial Freedom.

>>60890268
>NGU will eventually reach Bitcoin territory.
It will.

>>60890870
>It's called building a PC.
Yeah. Running a node is as well. But we have cool plug and play node hardware like MoneroNodo. Something similar with a mining machine would be awesome.

>>60890896
Ok, so what are the short term solutions or do you expect everyone to pour every dollar they have in xmr?

>>60890923
>do you expect everyone to pour every dollar they have in xmr?

>>60890870
But if they do a reorg would this not affect other transactions as well?
Also would heavy amounts not imply in a bigger size for the transaction output? In bitcoin this is measured in kb, would it not be possible to do the same with monero, or the ring structure also obfuscate this? If not, you could just look at the size of the data and speculate how much was sent.

>>60891018
I respect your devotion but man that's just horrible advice, especially if qubic can still keep up its grift

>>60890870
I didn't mean that miners are going to target specific transactions, but that if they're making X per day, that's the amount of value that is being securely settled each day. That's your security budget. And if you have a transaction that exceeds that amount, you should wait a while to say it's completely secure.

>>60891025
>If not, you could just look at the size of the data and speculate how much was sent.
No. For the size in KB, it has more to do with the amount of outputs you're sending. For example, I mine on p2pool, which pays in many tiny payouts. This fills the wallet with a lot of outputs each being worth little. When I send those I have to generate transactions with many inputs to consolidate them. I think in Monero they're standardized and the max you can do is 16 in 2 out, or was it 128 in 2 out?

My point is it does not correspond to amounts at all. While I have those tiny outputs, someone can have a single output of 1000000 XMR and miners would not be able to tell.

>>60891056
That part, in theory seems to make sense.

>>60890339
What do people get excited for? Hype, price, new applications and integrations. Hype and price have been forbidden topics for years. The bakecels actively cheered on delisting Monero from places like binance. And the devs have spent all their time fiddling with various privacy things but no time on integrations. E.g., atomic swaps are still one way, view keys still don't work, Monero applications are hard to develop (one reason why Thorchain still doesn't support XMR after years)

>>60890870
>Sorry but you guys who go "I mined a few hours and didn't earn anything" are the classic newfags of mining in general. Mining is something you do running your rig 24/7 for months on end. From a single CPU in a month, your profit will be like $5 anyway. Home mining for profit has always been a stupid idea. This is not exclusive to Monero. I've read the same complaints from people wanting to mine ETH back in the day.
I get what you're saying, I didnt expect milions honestly. At that point there's no worth in ruining my CPU by constantly using it for nothing

>>60891093
>Hype and price have been forbidden topics for years.
Yep. Insane that monero community for a long time shot itself in the foot.

>>60891125
This is why the "Monero mining doesn't need to be profitable because people will just use their home computer" argument doesn't work. People still paid for their computer, and are giving up something by using it to mine.

>>60891125
There is no problem with the CPU being constantly used as long as the temperature does not go too high (above 80C). I have my PC mining when I'm not gaming and it pays for its own electricity pretty much. Also I think if you already have a PC that always runs (I have some helf-hosted server stuff running), mining doesn't hurt at all unless it overheats. If you're already looking to stack monero, it's basically a roundabout way to do that so the extra cost of electricity is not even a problem to me.

>>60890870
>wanting to mine ETH back in the day.
Back in 2020 there was a total hype around ETH home mining rigs. They were bringing in nice lil profit as well (not just monero's 5 dollar profit)

>>60891196
>I have my PC mining when I'm not gaming and it pays for its own electricity pretty much.
Are you sure about this? Getting you don't keep it 24/7, and mining only when not gaming..
Giving the system pays off effort % which builds up over many hours.. How is it paying electricity?

>>60891204
>Giving the system pays off effort % which builds up over many hours
They way I understand it, p2pool is still entirely about statistical random distribution. You don't really lose for mining intermittently. In the long term, it comes out to the same average hash rate you mined.

>>60891198
Yeah ETH pay was way more but there were still people trying to mine with shitty GPUs and people talking about buying GPUs not realizing it will take many months to pay them off.

>>60891125
>ruining my CPU
Don't overclock it then

>>60891093
>Hype and price have been forbidden topics for years.
Price is allowed to increase, treating like an investment should be fought constantly. You'd see how wrong you are if you looked at monerotalk and see that the price development is one of the most prominent segments.
>The bakecels actively cheered on delisting Monero from places like binance
CEX encouraged not pulling your XMR out and had some paper XMR.

I have invested in Monero because I think private internet money is worth like trillion dollars.

>>60891300
>treating like an investment should be fought constantly
No
>had some paper XMR
I remember the narrative clearly. There were organized campaigns to drain liquidity from Binance with promises that the price would go up from all the paper Monero being eliminated. So Binance bailed, you didn't exactly make it worth their while, and then the price dumped and crabbed, giving no indication that it was being suppressed through paper Monero. Yet another instance of you guys playing yourselves. Honestly, if you bakecels want Monero to overtake Bitcoin then you should all become Bitcoin Maxis. You'd be doing us all a favor.

>>60891337
>No
Currency should be used and if you want adoption now you can't say 'If I remember my wallet password I might pay you in 30 years'
>I remember the narrative clearly.
I saw the exact opposite
>Move to BTC pleaseeee
Disgusting

>>60891354
Saving, speculation, and investment are uses. As well as spending.

I have bought my first XMR through DFX and then I plan on using them to buy through retoswap P2P XMR.

>>60891366
>I'm totally using it if I buy it once and keep it in my wallet for decades

>>60891379
Yes

>>60891072
Yes, the ring mix the outputs. My suspicion was if the mixed output (after the ring) had a size in kb like in bitcoin, and one could deduce how much it was being sent by the size in kb alone.

>>60891391
And you expect more people to trade xmr when you clearly don't? Are you planning on lying to them or do you expect people to just buy something they shouldn't touch until they're in retirement even though they see no reason for it?

>>60891409
I buy Monero which makes the price go up which makes people more interested which makes volume go up. And I keep buying Monero, not just set and forget it one time

>>60891420
TO the purpose of what? Accumulating value?

>>60891420
>Man, I wish there was some new coin mooning I can buy
>I should check the top 29 spot and not be thrown off by bs like the other 28 top currencies are

>>60891433
>Vendors that accept XMR should see that all the work they put into offering that payment option leads to no increase in sales or profit
I wonder why we're having such a hard time on boarding new people

>>60891434
To save some and invest for the future and to invest in a private financial network. To spend some eventually. To save some for my kids.
But I don't have anything I need to buy right now and I don't buy rent or groceries on xmrbazaar, so I invest the rest.

>>60891471
Like savings but instead of €, XMR
Arent u afraid of value going down though? Genuinely asking

>>60891479
>Like savings but instead of €, XMR
Not really, that's what the moonfags want you to believe but there's a difference between 'I'm keeping this to make sure I can pay my expenses in an emergency' and 'I'm keeping this so I can make more money even though I don't actively participate in the market or cause some price increase in any way'

>>60891505
>>60891505
>I'm keeping this to make sure I can pay my expenses in an emergency
You don't really need XMR for this though do you?

>>60891479
I'm not an ideolog. I invest in lots of things, Monero, gold, VOO, Bitcoin, in case one thing pans out better than the others. But I see value in a private financial network so I'm happy to save in it.

Plus Monero has a pretty reliable floor each cycle so I dca more when things are less volatile.

>>60891509
>You don't really need XMR for this though do you?
Depends, I saw some mechanics accept XMR. Also you can use it when some device breaks since a lot of technology is offered in XMR. But yes in general we're lacking more basic stuff

>>60891529
Saw a dude on X paying Spar in Swiss with XMR. That kind of shit would be fire. Paying at regular stores with XMR with your phone. Like scanning a QR of the store and XMR gets sent to pay the corresponding in local currency.

>>60891505
>savers literally take XMR out of trading circulation
>”I don't actively participate in the market or cause some price increase in any way”
Honestly, what is wrong with bakecels? Why the fuck are you like this? I have this visceral feeling talking to bakecels like I’m approaching someone with the plague. I want to remove myself from their presence entirely.

Whatever ideology you have, whatever crypto PTSD you have, whatever hang up you have about Bitcoin or Saylor, I was absolutely NONE of it. I want to be as far away and as separated from you as humanly possible.

I unequivocally guarantee that YOU bakecels are the problem with Monero. YOU are why the price hasn’t gone up. You are intentionally thwarting every attempt at generating hype around this project with unnecessary and incorrect probing around the supposed morality of wanting to grow and preserve your wealth in the face of fucking hyperinflating fiat. Literally just leave this place you are negative value here.

>>60890908
>we have cool plug and play node hardware like MoneroNodo. Something similar with a mining machine would be awesome.
This is where my head is at as well. We need dedicated setups, not spare cycles on a gaming PC.

>>60891192
>This is why the "Monero mining doesn't need to be profitable because people will just use their home computer" argument doesn't work. People still paid for their computer, and are giving up something by using it to mine.
Correct. I think all we've done is create a bunch of miners who don't take mining seriously

>>60891536
That'd be a massive achievement for XMR. Sadly on boarding isn't easily automated or systematically done so it requires each one of us having 1-on-1 talks with vendors

>>60891548
>The one who use and mine XMR are the problem
Sorry I'm not joining your ngu rat race, have fun finding that 20B USD we need to be noteworthy though

>>60891564
Your bake sale is an interesting side note to the larger protocol and the principle of private money.

And your mining is obviously inadequate in the face of a single wealthy autist. Perhaps ideological mining just isn’t as powerful as financial incentives? Crazy thought, I know. But maybe we shouldn’t have weird creepy agorists making all the important decisions? Could help!

>>60891581
>Yes goy you're all alone and you'll amount to nothing
>Just put all of your money into this one asset and hope that millions of other people also do so in hopes of attracting regular people which repeatedly were burnt by the exact marketing we're trying to use here

>The one who use and mine XMR are the problem
Shit take. XMR value is in being used. It's in being the only crypto with a fucking purpose. That's why I like XMR and I want it widely adopted more

>>60891550
>This is where my head is at as well. We need dedicated setups, not spare cycles on a gaming PC.
Ditto. Who will be the bitaxe of our Monerosphere?

>>60891593
>XMR value is in being used.
I'm sorry but according to this fake general this is commie talk

>>60891548
This.

>>60891591
>bakecels: how does a market work?

>>60891618
>Surely all the normies will come after years of being burnt by ngu coins for us when we present ourselves first and foremost as an ngu coin

>>60890278
I hate PoS but I also haven't seen a better solution. Only solutions I like are Monero price being higher or anything to make mining profitable. I don't think these are 'solutions' though and have to come from something else.

>>60891628
Sounds like a you problem bakecel. You should go see a doctor about your obvious psychological issues.

Marketing a coin is normal fucking activity. And Monero is literally the most marketable coin by narrative ever created.

Somehow, for some reason, you see the need to counter signal this every time it’s talked about.

>>60891692
>Marketing a coin is normal fucking activity.
Nice strawman, not like I said multiple times we need to market ourselves with *our qualities* and not our price

>>60891699
“Our qualities” are not fucking cookies retard

>>60891707
Yes but they lie in our transactions, not in you keeping your XMR in your wallet for decades and maybe spending it if you remember your wallet password

>>60891718
>a currency’s value has nothing to do with people valuing the currency

>>60891742
>Yet another strawman

>>60891593
Small correction
>XMR value is in being usable
None of the other 99 'privacy' coins can claim that

>>60891647
Tevador's proposal is pretty solid.
https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/144
The main thing that PoS does is account for time; publish or perish does this without cucking to the idea of shareholders

>>60891647
>I hate PoS but I also haven't seen a better solution.
They are literally discussing better solutions right now on IRC.
https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20250903

>>60891548
They are either communists who miss the Soviet Union, or masochists who want a return to feudal serfdom. The idea you can't own property, they apply it to monero. You can't own monero, you can only use it. Monero is property and property is le bad. So holding monero is anathema to them.
But at the end of the day, human nature win, and NGU is the only thing that matters. Qubic was useful in that regard, because it brought the issue to attention.

>>60892376
>Just ngu bro it's not that hard

>>60892466
Have you ever considered not fucking resisting it at every opportunity?

>>60892376
Speaking of communism, remember how central banks came out with a cope for crypto in the form of CBDC and how among the things they consider a benefit of them is the idea of smart money that can have an expiration date or have spending restrictions. That's basically what communist shitholes have in form of coupons that can buy specific things within a time limit, even for fucking bread. Such coupons were at least traded on the black market but the smart contract shills want to make cryptographically sure you can't even do that.

I like Monero because it's dumb money and not smart money. Monero is the dumbest internet money you can have. Even Bitcoin is too smart: It knows way too much. I don't want my money to be fucking smart. Monero will NGU because there are owners of trillions in total that don't want their money being too smart either.

>>60892479
Sure, if you give me some concrete plan, preferably one that doesn't take 10 more years

>>60891548
>Bitcoin
>Saylor
It's this, imo. The ideas that
>XMR is only valuable as a medium of exchange
>XMR is not an investment
>XMR is not for wealth preservation
>XMR is a tool
>XMR is a money laundering service
>if you don't need private transactions then you don't need XMR
>XMR is like having a checking account; BTC is your savings account
>hoard your BTC; spend your XMR
Are all common anti-Monero talking points from Bitcoiners.
I'm surprised I didn't see it sooner.

>>60892489
Here’s the plan: stop countersignaling every fucking person in these threads who post price predictions, moon math, or general excitement about the future value of their coins.

>>60892637
And you do you have something that will cause us to hit price targets (a prominent one I saw itt was around 7k USD) before the end of the decade?

>>60892652
Even if they don't, they should be able to discuss it without you gatekeeping everything into your narrow worldview. Go to reddit if you hate free markets so much.

>>60891550
>Bitcoiners: let's buy a fucking nuclear reactor to mine
>bakecels: my mom pays the electricity bill
Personally, I prefer the former approach.

>>60892758
I'm not stopping him but I'll remind him that he's retarded, you can't just say 'just ngu bro' and then expect every problem to be solved. If you want to enter the rat race, you at least should have some idea how you're gonna win or else you'll just be ngu coin place 29

>>60892778
Just NGU bro

Also has anyone noticed that engagement in these threads has shot way up since the bakecel OP was ousted? Knew he was gatekeeping Monero.

Capitalists win. Communists lose. Many such cases.

>>60885401
Micro transactions should be layer 2. I'm not mad about stuff like xmrchat right now but we should not be planning the protocol around that as a serious use case.

>>60892791
>Also has anyone noticed that engagement in these threads has shot way up since the bakecel OP was ousted?
Don't forget that I'm the cause of 50% of that engagement

>>60893723
We shouldn't remove more use cases from Monero. Every day transactions are more important for general acceptance than big transactions.

Chat, what do we think about this: https://xcancel.com/unstoppablebyhs/status/1963253146937123297#m

>>60894028
>We shouldn't remove more use cases from Monero.
Of course we should. Remember Mordinals?

>Every day transactions are more important for general acceptance than big transactions.
People send like 10c to get their chat on the stream. If you want lots of people to run their own nodes, that's the kind of bullshit you need to keep off the main chain.

Sad that Tari was supposed to be doing the work to get sidechains working on Monero but instead so far they've just played a suspicious part in this qubic attack.

>don't forget that I'm shitting up your thread and without me you wouldn't have anyone to laugh at
Pathetic.

>>60894397
>Of course we should. Remember Mordinals?
Yeah, we should move to ASICs, make sure small transactions make no sense and on top of that also remove the privacy aspects of it! Surely this is what we need to defeat qubic and finally be respected as our own thing! Also no, I won't accept the argument 'We had some bad use cases before so now we need to remove other use cases'.
>If you want lots of people to run their own nodes,
Because storage surely is the bottleneck most people have, right?

>>60894404
Are you the retard who thought forking the code means splitting the network or was that a different moonfag that outed himself as less tech literate than the average skiddie?

>>60893723
>Micro transactions should be layer 2.
They will be once payment channels are live

>I'm not mad about stuff like xmrchat right now but we should not be planning the protocol around that as a serious use case.
Low fees are a part of the social contract. Raising them just because is just as dumb as raising the tail emissions

>>60894449
Social contract is a meme. Monero is used not because of some made up ethics, but because it provides something other projects don't - privacy and fungibility. If you want a functioning currency, it's better to look at the rational arguments on raising fees/tail emissions.

>>60894449
>once payment channels are live
which one? Grease? Is it going to use eth? Can't we use darkfi chain or tari chain instead. At least with these two, we keep it in Monero's PoW network (they are merge mined with XMR)

>>60894503
>Can't we use darkfi chain or tari chain instead. At least with these two, we keep it in Monero's PoW network (they are merge mined with XMR)
In that case we should use Qubic since they contribute the most hash to Monero.

>>60894517
Nope. There is a diff between malicious contribution and non-malicious one.

>>60894458
>Social contract is a meme
So is 21M. What's your point?

>Monero is used not because of some made up ethics, but because it provides something other projects don't - privacy and fungibility.
At a very low price point. If it was just privacy and fungibility, cash by mail and paysafecard already offered that.

>If you want a functioning currency
The currency is functioning. See:
https://moneroconsensus.info/
0 orphans since 2025-09-03 10:59:01 UTC

>it's better to look at the rational arguments on raising fees/tail emissions.
The arguments aren't rational. Raising fees/tail emissions at this point does nothing at best to fend off jewbic and gives them more XMR per block at worst. All while breaking the social contract.

>>60894503
>Which one?
The one that FCMP will enable. I forget if grease is based on pre-fork or post fork

>>60894625
My point is referring to social contract in the context of network security is pointless.
>At a very low price point. If it was just privacy and fungibility, cash by mail and paysafecard already offered that.
Cash by mail is obviously inconvenient, paysafecard apparently only allows payments up to 150 euro at a time, while being a good boy clearnet service, so I guess there still are caveats related to privacy, although I personally didn't use it. Of course low fees are important, but there's still room for an increase that is below what would be considered high. Besides, increasing block rewards doesn't require touching fees at all, so that comparison to other services is even less relevant.
>The currency is functioning
Copium. You and I both know that the network security is subpar if some noname is able to cause service interruptions, and it's only a matter of time before a more powerful entity takes over it completely. That is, if qubic fails to achieve 10+ blocks reorgs in the first place.
>The arguments aren't rational. Raising fees/tail emissions at this point does nothing at best to fend off jewbic and gives them more XMR per block at worst.
I agree that at this point it might help qubic. But in general it makes sense: raise block rewards -> mining becomes profitable -> more miners join -> it gets harder to execute a scam like qubic starting from scratch.

>>60894663
>raise block rewards
This is pretty much off the table as it would demolish tokenomic credibility of Monero. Supply emission is set. People accepted it when they bought into XMR.

We should focus on pumping the price and incentivizing the miners that way.

>>60894717
Arguably that would change the tokenomics for the better by smoothing out that initial skew in the coin distribution where the early miners got a significant advantage at the expense of the later ones. But I see how it can be controversial.

>>60894663
>My point is referring to social contract in the context of network security is pointless.
Social contracts do matter in this context when your network is secured by people.
>Copium.
Absolutely, but my point here was that even under this attack, it still worked. Orphaned block rates never crossed 12% afaik, which is still better than cuckfi
https://coinlaw.io/card-decline-statistics/
So yes, it's bad, but not cuckfi bad.

>raise block rewards
We should do this by raising the price of Monero, not raising the fees. Besides, raising the fees also feeds into the idea that Monero is just a service you pay for and not a money.

Fees should be no more than a dollar, ideally less than 10 cents, but they should not be less than a cent or two or even three.

Slow day crabba detected. Page 8 bot bump deployed.

Once again, he's has started selfish mining again while posting on twitter about how he won't stop until the monero devs switch to proof of stake.

This is actually getting pathetic for him.

>>60896460
Remember when this was about helping us?

>>60896460
Weak price action creates qubic, qubic creates better price action, better price action creates bakecels, bakecels create weak price action.

>shitcoin comes out of nowhere
>Only available on scam CEXs
>XMR dumps
>Shitcoin moons

Were scam CEXs like pic rel printing paper XMR and using it to buy shitcoins the whole time? Were the regulators just doing their jobs and trying to prevent another MTGOX?

so when's the monero saylor coming along to buy billions in xmr?

rob

>>60896738
>Monero-chan "capturing" the store of value market with big inflows into Monero, 2026, pixelized.

https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1n6gu2g/technical_solutions_to_economic_problems_forcing/

TL;DR fight proof of useful work with proof of Monerochan

>>60896611
Sad but true.
But is PoS really the solution? Look at what happened to ETH price after they switched to PoS...

https://youtu.be/aC9Uu5BUxII?feature=shared
This is literally all you need. There is NO OTHER WAY to cope around it.

>>60897538
>hey guys, lemme use the fight against qubic to pump my shitcoin

You're not solving the decentralization or security problems, just replacing qubic with /ourguy/ (but we can super duper trust you instead)

Your whole proposal involves you market dumping all mined Monero for your shitcoin, lowering security in the long run (go fuck yourself for this one in particular)

You promise not to use selfish mining, which lowers your revenue relative to what Qubic can make, putting you at a disadvantage

Cum_in_behind has more money than you. Unlikely you could beat him in a shitcoin war of attrition.

Anime waifus are for autists, not something that garners mass appeal. I do like Monero-chan. But I don't like you dickriding Monero's mascot to sling your trash ERC shitcoin.

>>60894028
>Don't forget that I'm the cause of 50% of that engagement

"I said stuff that trolled people so that's good actually"

no ty

>>60898684
>Ugh I hate when my teacher trolls me

>>60898775
based retard

>>60894663
>raise block rewards
No, no, no, no, NO. Absolutely fucking no. You either pump the price or you die. If you destroy the tokenomics nobody will ever hold this coin again.

>>60897538
I still own your shittoken BTW. Never sold even though objectively it's free $100 I'm leaving on the table. I'll throw a few KH/s to your pool for fun lol. It's a shitpost against the world.

>>60898468
There are a bunch of AI waifu shittokens though so who knows. I swear I even saw Aspiecoin or something pulling some numbers.

>>60899544
>raise block rewards
Not gonna happen. Only fees may increase.

>>60899809
>Aspiecoin

Guys I got my first 50€ in XMR through DFX

>>60896699
Kek what a retard

>>60900990
Based. Every euro counts

Another banger by our most helpful glow asset. He doesn't understand what a mathematic proof (in this case a definition but same difference in this case) is and even how AIs 'learn'. All because his AI can't do simple additions. He also thinks we just memorized the result to every single addition we successfully perform.

Nobody I know has ever used Monero for anything other than buying drugs. I would imagine you could raise the transaction fees to near $1 (maybe a bit less) and everyone would still use it, because it's still the only real option available when it comes to untraceable digital money.

>>60901057
Thanks. I plan on buying some via xmrbazaar. A guy offered a good rate via Skrill payment.
Otherwise Retoswap.
I just wanted to try the DFX exchange which honestly went smooth and good. Maybe I could stick to that idk.
At least there's little to no scam probability.

I plan on buying my vpn with xmr

I feel like if we ignore qubic it will just go away when they run out of money. The hardfork mentioned by tevador >>60891843 sounds good

Zoom out.
Cycle 1 floor: $50~
Cycle 2 floor: $100~
Cycle 3 floor: $260~
The lowest it went at the bottom of the Qubic crisis: $235. It is likely you will never be able to buy Monero below that price ever again.
Centralized swaps: Enough kept working.
Decentralized swaps: RetoSwap exceeded $100M total trading volume.
Trad CEX Delistings: Not even a putting a dent in the price anymore.
We're going to make it. But for now, we crab.

Zoom out.
Cycle 1 floor: $50~
Cycle 2 floor: $100~
Cycle 3 floor: $260~
The lowest it went at the bottom of the Qubic crisis: $235. It is likely you will never be able to buy Monero below that price ever again.
Centralized swaps: Enough kept working.
Decentralized swaps: RetoSwap exceeded $100M total trading volume.
Trad CEX Delistings: Not even putting a dent in the price anymore.
Development: Actively continuing.
We're going to make it.

>>60902453
Is that why he seems to mald on twitter?

>>60902453
It'll dip to around $200 again at some point for sure, but that's fine.

>>60901305
>pic rel
Monero mining should be profitable.