Thread 60914938

Monero is anonymous internet money. Unlike all other coins, nobody can see what's in your Monero wallet, not even the government. Thanks to this property of fungibility, among others, Monero is the only crypto that can actually be called sound money, comparable to physical gold.

Easiest way to buy (de-listings can't stop us):
>have any crypto
>swap on trocador.app

If you care about anonymous/fungible/private digital money existing at all, stack as much monero as you can. If you care about financial freedom in general, stack monero. This will raise the coin's security budget. You can also easily mine on a CPU. Monero has the most active economy in crypto. For example, you can buy and sell goods and services on XMRBazaar.com. Invest in your financial freedom! Become a part of it.

Info dumps:
https://pastebin.com/raw/0AxVPSra
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org

Previous thread: >>60881462

Only scammy grifters compare crypto to gold.

>don't buy monero
and what if... i did it anyway? sorry i'm addicted to financial privacy.

>>60912250
>>60913997

I am mostly interested in it related to McAfee's possible deadman's switch on the ETH chain with WHACKD token and bzz.
He preferred Monero, but decided on ETH for this project.
Would consortium chains or a different type of decentralized system been a better choice?
How about decentralized apps etc?
Could it have been integrated with the existing Monero architecture in some way?

>>60914938 (OP)
based OP no need for disclaimers

>>60914938 (OP)
>Monero has the most active economy in crypto.
It won't if people just stack it as you recommend

any news on fcmp++ integration?

>>60915020
That's only because other cryptos don't actually compare to gold. But if I wanted to really have sound internet money, why would I not compare to a form of money considered to be the closest to ideal?
Full self ownership: Check
Storable&Durable: Check
Portable: Check
Scarce: Check
Low predictable inflation: Check
Divisible: Check
Verifiable: Check
*Private&Fungible&Uniform&Homogeneous: Check

Also LMAO at pic related. Fungibility is the first item and all other crypto fails it:
>Trying to use a non-fungible good as money results in transaction costs that involve individually evaluating each unit of the good before an exchange can take place.
Cue Bitcoiners having to check the AML/KYC of coins they accept. Actually even precious metals suffer from this a bit in practice because they have to be evaluated as not fake. Monero is better than both here. A meaningful step forward in money.

>>60915020
That's only because other cryptos don't actually compare to gold. But if I wanted to really have sound internet money, why would I not compare to a form of money considered to be the closest to ideal?
Full self ownership: Check
Storable&Durable: Check
Portable: Check
Scarce: Check
Low predictable inflation: Check
Divisible: Check
Verifiable: Check
*Private&Fungible&Uniform&Homogeneous: Check
...

Also LMAO at pic related. Fungibility is the first item and all other crypto fails it:
>Trying to use a non-fungible good as money results in transaction costs that involve individually evaluating each unit of the good before an exchange can take place.
Cue Bitcoiners having to check the AML/KYC of coins they accept. Actually even precious metals suffer from this a bit in practice because they have to be evaluated as not fake. Monero is better than both here. A meaningful step forward in money.

>>60915103
They won't. Also uh oh looks like the bakecel gets some roasting too.

>>60915156
>Only works if it's used in the future
>OP only asks us to stack it
Thanks for proving me right!

>>60915144
You've been sperging about the recent attacks and now suddenly when it's convenient Monero is super durable? Meanwhile gold has thousands of years of pedigree.
Comparing gold to Monero which is barely 10 years old is laughable. That's Bitcoiner maxi cope because Bitcoin turned out to be defective as currency so they pivoted to the digital gold meme.

XMR mining should be profitable.

stablecoin

>>60915198
>Only
It’s the retard who can’t think outside retarded absolutes again.

>>60915223
Durable as in it doesn’t go bad with time, like how gold doesn’t rust. No shit gold has a thousand year pedigree. Monero is the closest thing that’s native to the internet. Bitcoin fails even as that because physical gold is private. I’m not making some last ditch store or value argument because nothing else works. I also think gold should be a commonly accepted legal tender. And of course Monero is actually usable as a currency thanks to the same privacy (and superior verifiability) as gold.

>>60914938 (OP)
monero stalls... gold explodes... the openborder world is so safu now, so safu that new gs dont even touch anon-crypto, use gold instead...

>>60915813
>OP totally doesn't represent stacking as more important than spending it

>>60914938 (OP)
Tested Retoswapthe other day and was pleasently suprised.

>>60915043
Ethereum has smart contracts. Basically the ethereum network is a universal virtual machine that has shared state. So imagine a computer that everyone runs and you can look up the value of a variable at a specific memory address.

When you write a smart contract you are deploying a program on that vm. You can then have money tied up in those programs.
Basically really abstracted programmable money.

>>60915043
>Could it have been integrated with the existing Monero architecture in some way?
There are multiple implementations of eth atomic swaps currently out there. Hardest part is making it gas effective since the onchain math for cross curve math is expensive and onchain.
>Self promotion
Started looking at an adaptor signature and zero knowledge proof version of this. Basically a monero swap with eth is basically a ticket stub and a withdraw voucher. Those could even trade separately and use the same liquidity pool

>>60915103
>nobody gives a shit about their own investment and will abandon the community after putting large amounts of their wealth in the coin

>>60916235
>Basically really abstracted programmable money.
I’m still waiting on a solid usecase for ETH. It just seems like everything ETH does winds up going off its chain onto either another blockchain entirely (HYPE) or various L2s. There will definitely be a heavy push soon for consortium chains as all big banks get their own stables.

I don’t understand why the world needs a public decentralized computer to any large extent. Compute is siphoned off into various silos for many important reasons. A money system is an obvious match for a decentralized ledger. Compute is not.

>>60915119
it's delayed because you didn't buy enough monero

>>60916235
Can you share exact prompts to get Monerochan? I tried QWEN image and ChatGPT but she doesn't get as accurate

>>60916646
thanks

>>60916779
glad i could help

Is there any point in jumping through hoops to get XMR "anonymously"? I just want to pay for jmp.chat.

>>60916892
If you're not a schizo drug dealer that launders money id say no. Just buy some xmr and use how you want.

>>60916349
>If you really care about XMR you'd not spend it right now but just keep it
Oh I'm sure that'll just build a lot of outside interest in our project. Why would people who are potentially interested in the XMR economy come to us if we don't use it or should we just tell them to wait a few more years to see some use cases?

>>60916892
If it's a transaction you actually don't need anonymity for and if you don't suspect XMR becoming illegal in your country then it personally won't matter to you, however you'd increase the anonymity set for the users who need/want the anonymity. Also you'd incentivize more vendors/exchanges to offer anonymous ways to trade XMR to you.

>>60917059
>Also you'd incentivize more vendors/exchanges to offer anonymous ways to trade XMR to you.
Again he and his power of positive thought that's supposed to counteract natural market forces and change how the world works.

>>60917064
>Using XMR makes it less attractive for people offering services regarding XMR
Thank you for your contribution

>>60916892
Simple answer: no
Most people just buy crypto on a kyc exchange to swap for Monero. Once you're in Monero you're good

>>60916375
>I’m still waiting on a solid usecase for ETH
https://fomo3d.net/

>>60915274
Your mom's mining should be profitable too.

>>60916892
Just buy xmr, wait a few hours/days, and then send it to your own sub address (preferably in random chunks of the total and at random time intervals if you're feeling extra paranoid)
Washed, cleaned, and completely anon

Can I have some feedback on this from you?
https://rentry.org/monero-guide
I wanted to write a little introduction to xmr for normies (mostly friends).
I focused on the idea of Monero plus on trying to make the crypto scam scarecrow go away.
Any input is appreciated

>>60919996
Have they been burned by NFTs and crypto scams? If so fungible will probably only ring bells regarding bad monkey pictures. I'd also highlight the word 'anonymous' as that will be seen as a good thing.
The worst aspect is that you're making them visit another website to see how to use it. I'd include a small step-by-step picture guide and a direct link to the downloads (your links in general are weird, one is formatted like in-line code, the next is a regular hyperlink, the one after that is a hyperlink with an arrow emoji before it). Those who care about privacy will be attracted immediately but might assume it's hard to use, that's what is keeping a lot of people from using other privacy respecting software.
But the biggest question for me is why you're not just talking to them about it. Imagine a friend said 'Oh I have some cool thing here' and instead of explaining it to you just sent you his website explaining it. That makes it feel more like a marketing pitch than an actual personal recommendation. Every person will care about something else so it'd be easier to adjust what you're saying to that person. Some only want to be their own bank, some want to have privacy, some only want drugs and security. That's why a one size fits all approach often isn't very effective.

>>60920074
Thanks I will fix those soon.
Normie friends are burnt by those things yes.
Also I can of course explain them, but some farther acquaintances on social I don't know directly may benefit from a reading

>>60920074
>not buzzword maxxing
Private & Anonymous & Fungible & Uniform & Homogeneous

>>60920089
>Normie friends are burnt by those things yes.
Then 'fungible' and 'crypto' will both be harder subjects to portray positively. I'd assume that most normies haven't even heard about the word fungible before NFTs were around since that's basically not a concern with fiat.
>but some farther acquaintances on social I don't know directly may benefit from a reading
I'd drop that later. After you've talked to them for a bit I'd go 'Oh by the way I have an introductory article written about Monero if you wanna read up on it a bit'.

>>60920114
Being concise is good. That's why we use common terminology instead of having to explain every attribute with multiple sentences.

>>60919996
Keep in mind that normies are radical centrists at best.

>it is a guide to freedom
This is too broad of a concept for normies, and makes you sound like those looney libertarians they saw on tiktok. Maybe try 'it is a guide to financial privacy' or something.
And at the very end:
>defend it.
Smells of radicalism which normies don't participate in. Delete it imo.
>>60920114
>uniform & homogeneous
Good synonyms to avoid using 'fungible' around normies.

>>60919409
Send it all at once. Too many of you spastics want to make things harder purely to larp.

>>60920769
What is a radical centrist?

>>60922340
someone that would kill to keep things from changing

>>60916235
>Basically really abstracted programmable money.
Is that the best way to do a McAfee style deadman's switch?
I see some potential use cases for this idea of a global computer or a distributed vm with a shared state.
I don't know enough about consortium chains etc to know if there are better alternatives though

code

https://xcancel.com/FiatDemise/status/1965545052291375561

Uhh...is this as based as it looks?

>>60921670
>take optional advice as the required steps
Who's spastic here?

>>60914938 (OP)
How do I cash out Monero? How do I sell it?

The bakecel OP boss has been slain, but now these threads are slowing down. We need to rediscover our purpose here. For a while it was arguing with the bakecels, but they appear to be in full retreat.

What is our first order of business now that NGU is a fully accepted element of the future of Monero? How do we evangelize and promote saving XMR? What art should we produce? Who do we strategically shill to?

>>60923075
It's bad advice.

>>60923111
To me, this is about the mindset change, not so much a "strategy". As long as bakecelibate is not actively promoted, we've done our part and can continue posting as usual.

>>60923111
Checked. Could we get XMR adopted by public transportation ticketing systems? Do we have any connections there?

>>60914938 (OP)
>>60915022
Don't buy Monero! Mine it!

>>60923111
>Confirms that moonfags were solely motivated by arguing with the original monero squad
>Thinks we need constant engagement
>Doesn't have any idea what to do
Thanks for confirming everything I said about your kind

>>60923195
Any adversary that can see n XMR enter and exit the system won't have a hard time connecting the two purchases. So if the purchase of XMR was done in a non-anonymous way they can easily tie the activity together. The only things that could stop this is if the amount of XMR you bought was way higher than what you have used XMR for with lots of price development. It doesn't really matter for jmpchat though.

>>60923234
Buying it is fine, mining it is more important. There's no reason to think just doing either will save Monero.

>>60914938 (OP)
>>swap on trocador.app
Is this cheaper than things like changelly? They had high af fees which made we run away!

>>60923234
I dont think I have a computer powerful enough to mine the shit. Wish I could.

>>60914938 (OP)
>kike tells you don't buy cigarettes!1!1!
>hot girl asks you for cigs and to suck your dick after feeling your hard abs from working out between successful shorts
>doesn't have cigarettes
>yeah well I'm not an easy girl, bye
>lineage ends right there
ngmi

>>60923498
>I dont think I have a computer powerful enough to mine the shit. Wish I could.
Monero was precisely designed to be as easy to mine as possible. You just need a CPU which you already need to have to access the internet.

>>60923082
Anons? Anyone?

I love the idea of a private inflation resistant store of value. But it's useless to me if I can't turn it back into fiat to pay my mortgage or buy food.

>>60923529
I have a ryzen 9 on my main PC and some Intel joint I got in my spare PC I built in 2017.

This coin is dead in the water bros

>>60923594
What caused it? Its how I do buisness!

>>60923082
>>60923571
-do the opposite of what you did to buy it
-use a cex/dex/swap service to sell for a crypto that you already know how to cash out of
-buy gift cards
-use retoswap to sell to strangers on the internet

>>60915144
Gold is a commodity. It is a thing in itself. It's both a product and raw material. Something crypto isn't and will never be.
No one knows whether or not anyone will remember Monero in 100 years whereas it's not even a question with gold or other precious metals for that matter. Meanwhile Monero is only as durable as the network is.
Fiat also has most of the properties you listed. You can hoard cash under your matress, store it almost indefinitely, move it around, divide it (if you have change), verify it, etc. Since Monero is not a commodity it is much closer to fiat except it's not based on debt like most fiat is nowadays and there is no crazy inflation. This is not a necessarily a bad thing. It's what makes Monero convenient.

>>60923588
You can definitely mine with both. I'm unsure if the pastebin of this fake and gay general has more mining info linked considering they hate mining and miners but if you're curious you can find more on the github page for p2pool

>>60923628
Don't worry about him, he's just a shitposter

>>60923571
Retoswap- trade it for cash, zelle, prepaid visa cards(cakepay/coincards too)

>>60923648
this
the "legal" way if you wanna declare some amount within salary range
>change xmr to other crypto like usdc/btc/... on exchange
>send to a wallet like coinbase
>withdraw to bank account
>claim profit as part of income for that year
it sucks to pay tax but your source of income will just be a "coinbase" payout that you give to your accountant
living on giftcards is not worth the time and effort unless you're really just scraping by in life

>>60923111
>What is our first order of business now that NGU is a fully accepted element of the future of Monero
A bake sale, but unironically.
The bakecel dynasty was casted out because of their rigid ideals about NGU. We'll suffer the same fate if we don't buy/sell cookies on xmrbazaar every now and again.

>>60923888
Aren't you at the mercy of other users as it doesn't seem to be an automated process?

>dont buy monero!
>mine it at loss!
>use it only to buy drugs!

>why there is no adoption?

>>60920769
>>60920074
https://rentry.org/monero-explained
Changed it up a bit. What do you think?

>>60924179
Looks good. Maybe add a link to xmrbazaar?

>>60923858
did you tried mined solo? I can't find info on what is best hash rate for solo... pool is gay since they locking min amount that can be wired to your address

>>60923858
>>60924527
>github page for p2pool
Okay.... I can see that p2pool not so gay as other pools and looks like doing payout as soon as it finds block... so I need to test it.
Previously I was testing top pools and you have to wait friking days to get your rewards (at least in my case)

>google best coins for payments
>scroll through irrelevant shill articles
>oh, finally something I'm looking for!
>what do we have here... bitcoin, xrp, xlm, bch, usdc, usdt, fucking bnb lol
>monero not mentioned in any of the relevant articles
That's right! Monero is a bad investment, but also a bad currency! Don't buy monero!

>>60923858
>they hate mining
But I was told by all the leftists on this board xmr loves minors?

>>60924527
Mining is not profitable for most people in the US, EU, Canada, Aus at this price point unless you have a botnet or spare space on a server farm.
The price needs to go up for it to be profitable; otherwise, it makes more sense to just buy it.
Buying it raises the price and restores incentives to mine.
I fully support Monero, but there is an issue with the mining incentives.

Personally, I am hoping the price stays down long enough I can buy some more coins; should be an easy doubling of my money.
RetoSwap is good
There is also the short seller issue with Monero; I believe many of the major institution and custodial wallets are short selling monero (selling coin they don't actually own) this artificially devalues the coin unless something causes a squeeze, in which case it spikes massively

>>60926233
Doesn't seem like it happens at a big scale. Last time monero had a short squeeze event - the bybit hack - nothing happened. Nothing ever happens.

>>60924433
Done! Thanks for the input

>>60926258
You would need some sort of major information leak or scandal that caused people to demand transfer of the coins from custodial wallets to their own self-custodial wallets.
Until that happens, the short sellers will keep selling coins they do not have.
short sell, artificially remove demand causing price to drop, then pay buy the coins to back it if the price drops enough below the original selling price. If not, try to short sell more coins to artificially depress the price further.
Doesn't change the fact that it is almost certainly happening.

>>60926296
>short sell coins you don't have until the price goes to zero
>infinite money glitch
I'm glad they don't abuse it all the way through out of the goodness in their hearts.

ACK!

I'm not going to link his post because bakecels don't deserve (you)s.

But I find it really encouraging that bakecel OP was up to his usual antics earlier today and NOBODY responded to him. I think that's the right approach now that he's in full retreat. Just pretend like those agorist faggots don't exist. They're entirely irrelevant.

>>60926336
>out of the goodness of their hearts
Are you retarded?
They don't control the whole market and they can't short sell to self-custodial wallets.
This is a very common scheme with BlackRock and the big banks on Wall Street.

Charlie Kirk didn't kill himself

>>60927403
You must be retarded if you don't understand the sarcasm. What difference do self-custodial wallets make when almost all of the trading happens on the exchanges? Exchanges might organize into a cartel and drive the price to as low as their withdrawal limits allow. Yet it is not noticeable.

>>60926998
>They're entirely irrelevant.

>>60923111
>We need to rediscover our purpose here.

Pottery

How do I confirm the arbitrator and counterparty are not the same entity when swapping on reto?

MOONero

>>60924179
I think it is readable and clear. Could be an addition to /XMR/ post description from now on.

>>60928691
BOOBero

Don't let Monero be destroyed by communists.

wash

For the RetoSwap fags. Is it normal all offers are like 7% more than market place? Is it because I am supposed to make a buying offer? At that point a CEX is more convenient in terms of pure money.

>>60930123
Well considering anyone selling their XMR is more than likely getting tainted and illicit coins/cash in exchange and taking on the risks associated with that, so the 7% premium seems very reasonable.

>>60928364
I'm assuming there's no answer to this question and the reality is that Haveno is nothing more than a glorified trusted escrow platform masquerading as some holy grail of trustlessness and unruggability.

>>60930123
the good offers get taken quickly, you should post your own ones if you want better rates. if you set your offer to overpay by 1% it should get taken very quickly

>>60928364
no deposit offers have a passphrase that's required before you can take them, make a PR to haveno that expands that option to normal offers

>>60931357
its multisig escrow and the specific risks this brings have been discussed quite a lot and the devs are working on reducing these risk wherever possible. nobody is presenting it as a holy grail of trustlessness, that's just not possible on a technical level if you want to enable fiat trades. In any case, it beats using CEXs.

>>60931441
This answer seem more reasonable than the other autistic. I will just do that

>>60931441
>no deposit offers have a passphrase that's required before you can take them, make a PR to haveno that expands that option to normal offers
What does this have to do with me having to put full trust in the arbitrator not also being the swap's counterparty? It is impossible to prove they are not the same entity. Now since I have to fully trust the Retoswap team not to fuck me over, why even bother with all this faux """non-custodialness""" and meaningless multisig wallets, when we could just rely on the Retoswap team as a trusted escrow directly without all the bullshit. The security guarantees are exactly the same.

>nobody is presenting it as a holy grail of trustlessness, that's just not possible on a technical level if you want to enable fiat trades
Yes, it's not technically possible, yet you have "NON-CUSTODIAL" as one of the first things you see on retoswap.com. You have no way of proving that it's non-custodial - if there is a 2/3-multisig and the counterparty controls two keys, then by definition I am giving the counterparty full custody of my funds. At the very least the real nature of Retoswap should be made much more clear, since all I've been seeing is a huge amount of shilling for Retoswap and how it's supposedly unruggable.

>In any case, it beats using CEXs.
I wonder if you'll be saying that when the arbitrators inevitably rug the liquidity, freeze your funds, or they suffer from a """hack""" (totally not an inside job).

we are so fucking back

>>60914938 (OP)
Wen moon, this shit keeps being red

>>60914938 (OP)
Where can I buy?

>>60931752
Yes

>>60914938 (OP)
>don't buy monero
fuck you nigger OP. people should buy and stack monero if they wanted to.
monero is for everyone, not only for larping edgelords.
Accumulation of wealth is the basis of capitalism, you and other retards recommend spending monero as soon as possible and i'm starting to smell a dirty communist rat.

Buy monero and use it as a savings account.

>>60931906
this is actually an official initiative to incentivize people to actually buy it by telling them not to.

>>60931961
People at the time predicted that retards wouldn't get it.

>>60931729
Maybe create a github issue or post it on their xitter instead of concern trolling on /biz?
There's a couple of articles/forum posts out there that bring up your concerns yet no one seems to be doing the needful. For what it's worth bisq had the same issues and solved it with their DAO, which i don't see happening in monerostan

>>60931752
retoswap- downlaoded program for p2p dex
trocador.app for crypto-crypto swaps online, tor accessible

>>60931729
>The security guarantees are exactly the same.
wrong. the trade is entirely p2p as long as you don't need arbitration. if the arbitrators vanish, you can still always pay out the multisig by working with the other person. legally it's also different because the arbitrators don't take custody over your funds.

>It is impossible to prove they are not the same entity.

The worst case with a passphrase offer is that you get rugged on exactly one offer. After that everyone knows the arbitrator is malicious and they can kiss their network goodbye. At some point they should earn enough from trade fees that it makes no economic sense to ever attempt something stupid.

>and the counterparty controls two keys
assuming normal operations, it is not custodial

>inevitably rug the liquidity
would be pretty stupid to rug your money printer. trade volume scales much quicker and higher than offers on the book, with enough volume youd be loosing money by going for the offers. passphrase offers also protect against this because it massively reduces the amount of offers you could get away with.

you're concern trolling "hurr durr it's not literally perfect" when it is the best option available for fiat <-> XMR trading, vastly superior over all the others in terms of privacy and security.

Threadly reminder that a 'finality layer' is not needed.

>>60933325
>it's literally not a problem bro
>bro just wait for a day to be absolutely sure that the transaction is final
Not defending the finality layer, but this point of view is retarded.

>>60932326
>would be pretty stupid to rug your money printer.
Yet CEXs rug their "money printers" every day

>trade volume scales much quicker and higher than offers on the book, with enough volume youd be loosing money by going for the offers. passphrase offers also protect against this because it massively reduces the amount of offers you could get away with
You clearly do not understand the problem, so let me spell it out for you
>be reto admin
>see $10M in XMR liquidity provided by makers
>set your bots to be the network's arbitrators, remove others
>use bot to take all offers on the orderbook
>use arbitrator and taker keys to get control over the makers' funds
>piece out with $10M worth of Monero

>>60933716
It's the most level headed take I could find. Certainly better than
>just expose the chain to potentially permanent consensus splits bro
When it really isn't the devs job to provide finality beyond the probablistic finality offered by waiting an hour. Assuming PoP and reward splitting works as intended, I'd be fine getting rid of the output lock altogether
Besides, in the next fork we're getting payment channels; people that need finality can just use those.

Retoswap offer to buy XRM won't just get bought by anyone bros. I might as well go the LTC to XMR route by buying from Coinbase

i'm buyin' it

>>60935824
Ok thanks

>>60934833
>payment channels
What is it? Can't find any source.

Also, as some quai guy mentioned at one of the last monerotopia streams, breaking each block down into subblocks would improve that probabilistic finality by reducing the chance of getting a long reorg by luck without the actual 51% like qubic does.

>>60935849
https://www.getmonero.org/2024/04/27/fcmps.html
>Transaction chaining allows signing a transaction spending another transaction, before the spent transaction is published and mined on-chain. This enables certain layer-two designs for Monero (such as some payment channel protocols).

>breaking each block down into subblocks would improve that probabilistic finality by reducing the chance of getting a long reorg by luck without the actual 51% like qubic does.

I believe tevador stated that the pow verification for RandomX is too slow to do do this, but maybe Dr.K has a work around for that. Hell, it might actually be possible if this issue works the way it's supposed to:

https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8827

>PoW verification typically consumes about 15 milliseconds of CPU time and can become a DoS vector if a malicious actor started flooding the network with invalid blocks. My proposal allows for pre-verification that takes only 300 nanoseconds and makes such DoS attacks ineffective.

Sadly all this stuff is 'in the future' and isn't going to help us fend off cuck_from_belarus

smash

I went for coinbase LTC to XMR with swaps.
Retoswap was too slow. Too bas fucking Coinbase still took almost the same fee as using DFX directly.

>>60936411
maybe I should use SEPA on coinbase instead of VISA

>>60936411
If you're just looking for the cheapest way to get XMR, set up a strike account and use it to send BTC lightning to fixedfloat or bitcoinVN.

>>60916375
>I don’t understand why the world needs a public decentralized computer to any large extent. Compute is siphoned off into various silos for many important reasons. A money system is an obvious match for a decentralized ledger. Compute is not.
Trust. It isn't meant to be compute like a cloud server. It is highly expensive because you basically pay per instruction set in assembly. But now you can write a computer program to hold funds and have it run in a world computer so anybody can use it.
Uniswap for example is a DEX that runs on chain and people can add or remove liquidity and there is no central party needed for exchanging. It all happens through smart contracts.
>>60916375
>I’m still waiting on a solid usecase for ETH. It just seems like everything ETH does winds up going off its chain onto either another blockchain entirely (HYPE) or various L2s. There will definitely be a heavy push soon for consortium chains as all big banks get their own stables.
Ethereum scaling right now has a bunch of l2 but many of them basically just bundle their transactions on l2 and publish tol1. But you can interact between all those l2 and then go back to l1. It is nice since different l2s might have different advantages and your security requirements might be different between mainchain and l2s. But you can always go to l1. >>60916697
>Can you share exact prompts to get Monerochan?
Upload the OG Monerochan images and then explain that those are the base images are Monerochan and that her look and outfit is iconic. Then have the chat remember her. Then generate new prompts. Just make sure you don't feed it an initial AI image.

>>60922355
>Is that the best way to do a McAfee style deadman's switch?
Yes. You can make a smart contract today and have it have a check in function that increased the trigger date. Then if it expires you have addresses that can access the funds on there. You could even do it with message signing. So it can validate a signed message from external and have it submitted.
The first examples from the ethereum org when it first launched were decentralized DNS, creating a token, a hedging contract, a DAO and a crowdfunding project.
>>60922355
>I don't know enough about consortium chains etc to know if there are better alternatives though
Deadman switch on l1 (Ethereum mainchain since it is the most decentralized and trustless). You could use l2s and have them be able to bridge to the l1 if you want.
Most new l2s follow the optimistic standard so they are all compatible with each other and the parent ethereum chain (Regardless of the difference in how they might work or how centralized each one it).
So Base chain - Coinbase created that chain. They are moving to have it basically be a decentralized network with different validatiors.
Ink - Same thing but by Kraken.
Usage, code and tools (Wallets like metamask) are the same across most of the l2s.
>>60922355
>McAfee style deadman's switch?
If there is interest I'll throw it on the project roadmap for open source deliverables. Making a standard for deadman switch design along with pros and cons of different choices etc.

I will say that people in the Monero community really downplay how useful smart contract platforms can be. When Ethereum first launched the whole marketing was around unstoppable compute. The term "code is law" was thrown around a lot. The culture changed after the rollback of the DAO hack. The hardest part of integrating XMR with EVM contracts is the lack of timelocks on XMR and the different curves. But there are ways around that but it is more tricky.

>>60936271
>Sadly all this stuff is 'in the future' and isn't going to help us fend off cuck_from_belarus
Qubic is an economic attack. He is just very well funded. Treat it like an economic attack and attack back to win his miners. He is stuck on having to continue mining xmr to fund those buybacks.
>Bankrupt him then meme it
>>60936271
>Transaction chaining
Would be nice if it can enforce a timelock since then it makes it easier to do some cross chain smart contracts.

I dislike the push for POS. At least with POW you can earn it by buying hardware. With POS you have to buy coins to earn coins. It is easier to control. (Asics are harder to buy anon than some random used PC)
Why asic resistant POW is important

>>60923082
Same way you cash out bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency.

>>60936982
>would be nice if it could enforce a timelock
These are being deprecated in the next hard fork, but from what Ive read they didn't help atomic swaps anyway. Luke Parker talked about it on an episode of Monero talk/topia.
Question: Would XMR <-> ETH swaps mean that any solidity-compatible coin (Tron), L2 coin (polygon) or token (tether) could be swapped for XMR? If so that would be the final solution to the liquidity question

Why are we pumping?

>>60937905
because we are so fucking back

What happened with WoW on nokyc.io?

>>60936543
Is is btter than LTC to XMR route?

>>60938887
I think so. Some anon bought $1k of XMR for $3 + tx fees.

>>60938930
Wdym?
>3$ +tx fees
3$ of CEX fee + taxes? You pay taxes on every crypto you buy? Isnt it just above a certain threshold

>>60939107
The routing fee for using LN through strike + the tx fee from the DEX to send your XMR.
There's no taxes when using strike to send LN payments because you're not actually buying/selling BTC.

>>60939186
So 1k of LTC with Strike? And then retoswap?
I like retosweap concept, but honestly its so slow to take offers, especially with low % of price variation

>>60939186
>DEX
Fixedfloat is not a dex. A dex wouldn't have any kyc, even for "dirty" transactions.

>>60914938 (OP)
been out of the loop for a while regarding monero and need some cash. I saw that localmonero is gone, so what's the best way currently to get cash for monero? (EU fag here if it matters)

>>60939195
No, just use whatever the cheapest provider on trocador is. If lighning payments aren't working for some reason, sending BTC on chain through strike is still pretty cheap.

>>60939206
Fixedfloat is usually the cheapest provider on trocador, but you don't HAVE to use them.

>>60939237
Retoswap and sell monero
Otheriwise swap XMR to anothjer crypto you can cash out (dunno what it would be honestly)

>>60939237
Many EU countries have crypto ATMs, even though it gets harder and harder to cash out through them without kyc. Check the kyc requirements for your country and then simply swap monero to one of the ATM-supported cryptos.

>>60937688
>These are being deprecated in the next hard fork, but from what Ive read they didn't help atomic swaps anyway.
There are different implementations of atomic swaps. Some tried to do it at the base eth level. So think eth to xmr as traditional atomic swaps.
I want atomic swaps with adaptor sigs so that a liquidity pool can be created for submitting and releasing eth / erc20 tokens based on a zero knowledge proof note. (So think tornado cash but with cross chain)
A real timelock would help be able to do this a lot easier in a non interactive way (Not needing both people to be online and taking multiple steps).
The current timelock is not a timelock like bitcoin timelocks that enable partially signed and timelocked transactions (Which they use for lightning channel creation)

>>60937688
>Would XMR <-> ETH swaps mean that any solidity-compatible coin (Tron), L2 coin (polygon) or token (tether) could be swapped for XMR
Yes. There are already 2 working protocols that can be deployed today (a bit expensive because of the way the proof/signatures are computed).
Adaptor sigs with offline proof would basically be cheaper my magnitudes.
here is existing ones
Hbs- https://www.youtube.com/live/HkzqwAKx77k
Noot/Athanor labs - https://github.com/AthanorLabs/atomic-swap
Right now those two versions can be deployed to any EVM chain or l2. So from eth to matic/polygon to base and ink.

>>60937688
>If so that would be the final solution to the liquidity question
That is the plan. But honestly that is why I am pushing for the adaptor sig version since it makes it really easy for pooled liquidity. Either way after focusing on the mining pool I can look into helping the existing protocols with some UIs or work on the adaptor sig version some more.

>>60939559
>Muhh adaptor sigs and timelock
I really want the timelock and adaptor sig because then you could "lock" xmr and have the withdraw note be in a smart contract. Then that note could be cross platform. So imagine depositing xmr into a smart contract on ethereum and getting a token (note) that can be traded like any erc20/nft. So you could then defi that monero. All in a trustless way.

So is anyone here talking about the 18 block reorg? Or the fact that Monero blocks now take effectively 40 minutes to confirm. Pretty sure the threshold for a double spend has been passed.

>>60939582
Can't see the shit, captain:
https://moneroconsensus.info

Anyway, CumFromBeyond should be killed. Miserable human being.

>>60939960
See: https://www.hokanews.com/2025/09/monero-shaken-by-18-block-reorg-but-xmr.html?m=1

>>60939582
...not really? Yes it sucks to have normal folks' txs reorged out, but:

https://blocks.p2pool.observer/
>A miner can attempt to orphan blocks by producing a higher-work alternate chain. When done in without publishing blocks, this usually called selfish mining.
Efficiency below 100% indicates selfish mining is being unprofitable compared to not implementing a selfish strategy during the tracked period.

>Qubic blocks in last 1440 heights: 339 (23.54%), orphaned 138/477 (28.93%), total orphan rate 42.20%, efficiency 87.21%
>Qubic reward in last 1440 heights: 205.75/881.33 XMR (23.35%), orphaned 83.37 XMR, block average 0.606151386277 XMR

>Other blocks in last 1440 heights: 1101 (76.46%), orphaned 189/1290 (14.65%), total orphan rate 57.80%, efficiency 104.73%
>Other reward in last 1440 heights: 675.57/881.33 XMR (76.65%), orphaned 117.68 XMR, block average 0.614928879607 XMR

So they're orphaning blocks but losing money while exchanges have already bumped their confirmation times to 30+ blocks (or 1 hour, literally the bitcoin standard), on top of qushit being down ~30% in a month.

Turns out selfish mining isn't profitable either.

>>60939991
>or 1 hour, literally the bitcoin standard
Wut? Bitcoin can be withdrawn from binance with just one confirmation, which is 10 minutes.

I once heard that in order to ensure your monero transactions are actually anonymous you needed to run a node yourself. Is that true?

>>60940002
Not for a typical anon who is not tracked by the glowies.

Alert: A pump has occurred.

I repeat, a pump has occurred.

>>60940295
Bearish.

>>60940295
50% attacks are bullish now

>>60939998
>Bitcoin can be withdrawn from binance with just one confirmation, which is 10 minutes.
I was talking about the standard in which a bitcoin tx is considered 'final' which is 6 confirms. Exchanges do their own risk assessment.

This thread lacks pictures

>>60940502
Idk about le standard, but there's a minimum number of confirmations for every blockchain where you can safely assume the transaction is final. Given bitcoin's security budget, 1 confirmation is enough, I'd say it is very hard to fake to a block in bitcoin today. But monero... well, if you have to wait for an hour to get above that safety threshold, then it's actually fucked up.

>>60940644
*to fake a block

Ummmmm why are we pumping?

>bro trust me I'm mining all the transactions that i see bro really I'm not just putting dust into my blocks man I'm trying to make as much money as i can bro i just can't prove it because it's an anonymous crypto bro but you gotta believe me man I'm being 8 more than 92 with you

https://xcancel.com/xenumonero/status/1967235918429094348#m

This should be really easy to prove by showing a block with more than 1 tx in it.

>>60940703
XX babies with Monerochan!

>>60940903
Holy sex

This pump is kinda neat but I have no idea where to buy or sell since 2022.

>>60940644
>>60940654
Because no one is actively attacking bitcoin. If it were people would be heavily encouraged to react accordingly with the figures gamed out in the whitepaper.

Pic related

>>60940903
I enjoy big honklers.

>>60940821
Paper Monero is disappearing. FUD has failed from the shit coin on monero network. I feel a shift coming where a whole coin of monero is about to become rare.

>>60914938 (OP)
>18 block rollback

>>60915223
>Comparing gold to Monero which is barely 10 years old is laughable
You goldbugs bring up fair points sometimes
>Bitcoin turned out to be defective as currency so they pivoted to the digital gold meme
But you always sperg out and sound like retards in the end.

You sit year after year being butthurt by reality. It’s like God is punishing you or something

>>60939582
I’ve noticed that complacency seems to be the biggest threat to crypto these days.

>>60923753
asteroid mining might render gold dirt cheap in 100 years.

>>60914938 (OP)
>steal monero wallet
>convert to btc
>IRS comes knocking
>tell em I've been mining monero since the beginning
>IRS can't tell me squat

>>60923234
How profitable is xmr mining right now? I'm talking days mining per token. I would use a server rack and steal electricity to mine it.

What's the monero sisters' response to the 18 block deep penetration? Matrix's got too many messages to follow.

>>60941987
>What's the monero sisters' response to the 18 block deep penetration?
pumping 6% apparently

>>60914938 (OP)
Bump. The world needs XMR and its concept.

>>60941989
Eh... if it's the only response to an unprecedented attack that makes monero unreliable to the point of exchanges increasing the # of confirmations, then it's grim.

>18 block reorg

Where's the bakecel retard that was saying

>MONERO MINING SHOULD BE LIKE FLUSHING YOUR TOILET

Here's your shit network bro.

>>60923858
>they hate mining and miners
KEK
We are the ones saying, "Monero mining should be profitable," you DISINGENUOUS retard.

Given current events, I think paying 1000 XMR to Luke to look into the idea of the potential of a discussion regarding writing a book on a PoS finality layer is a good idea.

>>60942198
>paying 1000 XMR to Luke
pay all the XMRs to him, while at it.
>proof of stake
dead on arrival. Monero dies with it.

New proposal just dropped
https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/145

Tl;dr some transactions are luckier than others

>>60927840
Are you a nigger?
How would they short sell coins from self-custodial wallets to self-custodial wallets?
To do that, the exchanges would have to make short selling agreements with each of the individual wallet holders.
The exchanges couldn't do it easily or without the permission of the owner like they do on the public stock market or how they could potentially do it with wallets kept on exchanges.
They can't drive the price to 0 with this scheme, but they can still short sell and jew the system on the exchanges.

>>60942290
They control the withdrawals and so the self-custody wallets. Is that too hard for you to grasp?

>>60936965
Interdasting.
What is your opinion on the ETH concept of a serverless world computer?
How about a serverless system with privacy built in?
Consortium chains or is there a reason why those are not the best choice?

>>60942307
How are they controlling the withdrawals from a self-custodial wallet?

>>60942307
Sorry, anon.
I think you might be retarded.

Unless you are trying to say the centralized exchanges have so much control over the bid/ask process, on/off ramps and information networks that they essentially have the power to set the price.
That, I would understand and potentially agree with.

>>60942355
>>60942366
You don't make any sense. Go back and re-read the thread before posting some stupid crap about selling from self-custody wallets that would only play into the exchanges' hand.

>>60942173
>We love mining because we tell everyone only to do it when they profit off it

Funny how despite this thread barely seeing any activity for days all of the sudden all those totally concerned and real XMR users come out of the woodworks and parrot what they were saying the last few times qubic invested in PR

>if they disagree with me they must've been sent here by qubic!
Kek. Oh, dear bakecels...

>>60942397
nigger go mine xmr at a loss -- mine harder
your ass just got 18 block reorg you bakecel faggot

You are getting the new Monero Orange iPhone 17 Pro right?

>>60943732
I am only waiting for it to arrive to post it here. Pro Max akshually

On Windows 10 today Defender (after 10 years or so of peaceful coexistence) suddenly started its aggression against xmrig. (Our system thinks your post is spam).

I could not even add WinRing(problem here?).(or here?) to exceptions (you cannot do that with that scary virus you are not an owner of this machine). (Our system thinks your post is spam).

so I've added the xmrig folder entirely.

>>60943732
Looks like appleshit. I'm using Pinephone Pro and an Android phone when needed, thank you. Librem 5 is fine too but too expensive.

(Our system thinks your post is spam).

WinRing0x64
test

test again
fucking
"SYStem"? seriously?

>>60944154
Damn do you actually use a pinephone? Is the software experience still jank?

>>60914938 (OP)
How many mini PCs with decent CPUs do I have to buy to get decent change to buy things with monero? I want something's mg with a low tdp and low temps, that I won't have to worry about catching fire running quietly in the background.

how is it at 315 again? did we have another double digit reorg?

new /XMR/ proposal
https://0x0.st/s/0asBCePYDeINYqliC1Xl_Q/KcWV.txt/XMR-General.txt

>XMR price go up
>More miners want a piece of the block reward
>Hashrate go up

Tell me again why anti-moonfags want to keep the price low enough that a bunch of Nigerians to 51% attack the chain?

>>60947039
So what you're saying is that all it would take to get rid of moonfags is to suppress the price of xmr?

>>60941987
Annoying for sure when youre trying to transact in the ~2 hour attack window
But the failed transactions go right back to the mempool.
The only loss is time from users and electricity from miners.

reporting in

>>60947121
Based wirey, good to see you in here

>>60947049
Yeah that's why Elon keeps banning Maverick's twitter

>>60947329
What's up with that ugy? Looks all fuss and turbo-autism

>>60947039
>Strawman
>How could bakecels do this to us

What makes number go up?

>>60948279
Blood sacrifice.

>>60948279
Wider market acceptance or going all-in if you're already a billionaire

>>60939991
>>60940644
>they're orphaning blocks but losing money
>bumped confirmation times to 1 hour, literally the bitcoin standard
>qushit being down ~30% in a month
>the standard in which a bitcoin tx is considered 'final' which is 6 confirms
>Because no one is actively attacking bitcoin

This is some premium cope. Way more value is settled in a single Bitcoin block than an entire day's worth of Monero blocks. No one is attacking Bitcoin because it is orders of magnitude more expensive to do so. I don't know any exchange that requires 6 blocks for a Bitcoin deposit, definitely not Binance, Kraken, or Coinbase.

Why the fuck are we POOmping?

>>60948680
People are buying.

>>60948680
At this precise moment in time, the collective consciousness of the market arbitrarily understood that privacy is a human right and that all other so-called privacy coins are actually just trash vaporware. Untold thousands of people with relatively minor investment accounts randomly decided that now was a great time to acquire XMR and did so without significant marketing or a black swan event.

That, OR

A single market maker decided to buy.

serve

I should have bought something yesterday :)

>>60951061
Now you can buy XMR today instead.

What happened yesterday and why are we going down?

>>60951852
Number go up, people buy goods and traders/vendors sell
Number go down, people buy >>60951382
Planned on it :)

>>60923916
Informal economy when?

god this shit is so dead

>>60955297
>09/17/25(Wed)13:58:40 No.6095529
>Page 3

/biz/ is dead

>>60914938 (OP)
How do I buy with Monero and how do I sell to cash out?

>>60956463
Buy XMR via swapping it for LTC.
Otherwise DFX sells in EU for € directly.
Or use retoswap/haveno for p2p trading but gl with that.

Cashout IDK honestly probably swap it for some coin you can cash out and do it

>>60955297
>>60952306
Did the anons that normally kept this thread alive already rug pull?

>>60956784
Looks as much alive as always to me. That's a good thing if bakecels are gone btw.

>>60956784
>>60956798
>That's a good thing if bakecels are gone btw.
I'm still here as we were before you. That's how it's supposed to be since without us (the actual XMR users) you don't even have a purpose (See >>60923111). That's why you all couldn't come to any conclusion how you want to change XMR to ngu even after taking over the OP through false reporting.

>>60956810
Cope, seethe, and strawman, bakey.

can we post again yet?

>>60956810
Everyone’s attention was on shutting you up because you’re a faggot communist who has no interest in actually promoting Monero, just doing your shitty bake sales.

We should talk about other things here now. You have been summarily defeated and should commit sudoku in shame.

I would like to plan something like how the people associated with Mav got Nick Fuentes to mention Monero positively. We should strategize something like that.

But absolutely nobody wants the return of the bakecels. No posts are better than negative posts.

i hate the antimonero

I should've sold.
I bought more when it dipped, btw.

>>60957044
oh boo hoo here's some anime figure crying ;'''3

don't buy my coin just buy my cookies

>>60957024
>Communism is when you want your currency to be used
>Capitalism is when we have no topic besides wanting NGU and demanding some change in XMR but we don't know which one
All you're doing is attracting cry babies like >>60957084 which, as I said, would use XMR only as an investment and not as a currency. If someone believes in XMR and its benefits you'd not cry about a dip. You can try to attract more retards with some points about ngu and mooning but that will just make you sound like the next crypto bro on twitter. Instead you need to focus on the inherent qualities of XMR which are in its transactional qualities.

Should I build a specific skeleton rig for mining or should I buy a mini pc with a powerful CPU and enough ram to handle mining and just fire and forget about it? I don't know if I can be arsed to assemble it myself or just plug and play.

>>60957512
MINISFORUM 795S7
This is probably the best bang per buck. The downside is that it's not upgradable

>>60957503
I "use" USD as both a currency (checking account) and an investment (savings account). You're just some weird ideological faggot that, thankfully, does not represent the larger Monero community and no longer has any position of prominence here. You're irrelevant and nobody cares about your opinion.

Also I never said anything about "crying about dips". Monero is $300+ for the longest time in its history right now. It is obviously setting foundations for much higher. Just try not to cry too bad when your non-investment-spend-only-currency makes you some money. Okay?

>>60923111
Well, I've build a big clandestine dlc for Skyrim over the years, and I'm selling the release for monero. Unfortunatelly I collected zero moneros, due to censorship in major search engines. But it is a use case. Cant post the link here because I know it is going to be deleted.

>>60958029
>You're just against making money
Oh another strawman, how creative. At least you admitted to both changing your ID and then samefagging, good job!

>>60958090
Unlike the agorists taking a vows of poverty and celibacy (the latter one involuntarily), I actually have TWO devices and post from them both. Fuck off.

>>60958217
>Yes I samefag
Wow so based, I'll immediately stop doing any transactions through XMR so I can stack more

>>60957503
>All you're doing is attracting cry babies like >>60957084 which, as I said, would use XMR only as an investment and not as a currency
>because...uh...they just will ok?

>Instead you need to focus on the inherent qualities of XMR which are in its transactional qualities.
We did this for 11 years. Bitcoiners have also done this for 11 years; it's one of their main talking points as to why you shouldn't invest in XMR. I'm not sure there's anyone left who's even remotely interested in crypto that doesn't both know and understand XMR's value proposition from this perspective.

>>60958269
>>because...uh...they just will ok?
No, because you're selling it as such and that's why you have people like >>60957084. You are seeing it right in front of you and you're denying it. That's how delusional you are.
>I'm not sure there's anyone left who's even remotely interested in crypto that doesn't both know and understand XMR's value proposition from this perspective.
Your target audience shouldn't be those who are 'interested in crypto' but the ones who are interested in financial freedom (as in being unshackled from governments, not FIRE), being able to transact money easily across borders and anonymously, privacy and complete fungibility. If we just pander to the moonfags and ngu crowd we'll solely enter a red ocean filled with hundreds of projects that all are trying to garner the attention of a completely oversaturated market. We currently have a great blue ocean strategy but if we just sell it as an ngu scheme with privacy on top of it the ones burned by crypto bros won't listen to us (meaning the vast majority of people) meanwhile crypto bros will only give us the time of day if we hit some arbitrary numbers and they don't care about the rest. Cfb is precisely preparing for this already AND will be able to more easily exploit it with his external funding. You're picking a battle you'll lose immediately instead of seeing things from a new angle and thereby taking advantage of our already established strengths.
NGU can not be a goal onto itself and can not just be willed into existence unless there's some bored megawhale lurking here and willing to buy into XMR. Do not take this as a criticism of the number ever going up, what I'm arguing against is the treatment of ngu being the only (or even first) thing we should care about.

>>60958388
I think if we sacrifice the bakecels it would help.

>>60958388
>Too scared to directly reply to my post
Pathetic

>>60958347
You just constantly post this false dichotomy between NGU and caring about privacy. There is no such thing as "us leading with NGU" and that somehow affecting Monero's privacy. Monero is what it is without any of our marketing. It is freedom AND its number can go up. I want both.

Fuck off with your division tactics.

>>60958472
>You just constantly post this false dichotomy between NGU and caring about privacy.
Not what I said. I say that you moonfags try to force ngu somehow and will sell it as an investment solely because of ngu, not because of the inherent qualities of XMR which are in its transactional properties, this is where the privacy lies. XMR will still be private but you are trying to represent it in a way in which the privacy doesn't matter. You are trying to speculate on the monetary value of XMR but don't care about its usage (transacting wealth in a private, anonymous and fungible manner through digital networks).
>It is freedom AND its number can go up.
I'm not against ngu in principle, I'm against only caring about ngu which is precisely what you are doing by trying to remove it from its proper context (that being a currency that is being used, not just being a storage of value). The way you're presenting XMR makes people think it's only another ngu coin and that's what's so incredibly retarded about moonfags. This is why despite you creating these fake generals, falsely mass reporting the real generals and now being free in your own containment thread (that didn't hinder you from trying to derail the actual generals) you achieved NOTHING. All the talk about ASICs, CPU+ASICs, PoS finality layers etc. just poofed into air since, as you moonfags yourself described you are nothing without us (See >>60923111) because you have no inherent interest in XMR. You are nothing but some faggot who bought into XMR thinking it'd go to the moon and now you're trying to sell it without making a loss compared to whatever shitcoin you could've bought instead.
If you truly care about XMR advertise its quality, not its price.

SAR

>>60947121
NAH GYOU GET THE FUCK OUT

>>60957483
but you need the neros to buy the cookies

>>60914938 (OP)
pedo coin

>>60958950
>pedo coin

Pedos do be getting richer tho

>monero becomes illegal in europe in 2027
Will the mining difficulty go down tho?

>>60959358
If I understand correctly EU isn't really banning Monero but further tightening KYC/AML for exchanges and the like.
There are no exchanges left to buy Monero from anyway so it makes little difference.

>>60959478
If I run a dex node, does it make me an exchange that has to comply? Hmm. Not that it matters, but still interesting.

I love XMR

>>60959358
europe cucked beyond belief.

monero is dead it is going to 0 there's no point to crypto anymore this shit is dumb

>>60960440
Without a way to convert xmr to fiat or a shitcoin and vice versa, xmr looses any kind of usability. Unless it becomes like the gold coins from John Wick, but at that point it will be just a token.

>>60960297
me too

Remember to donate to Whonix and Qubes

Trying to convince an artist i follow to use Monero for payment, any ideas?

>>60961824
Let them know they can buy cookies with it. That's the most important thing.

>>60961824
Selfownership, no fees to some payment processors, privacy & anonymity. Your main selling points really depend on the person.

>>60958347
>Your target audience shouldn't be those who are 'interested in crypto'
Ok let's see who we should appeal to:

>but the ones who are interested in financial freedom (as in being unshackled from governments, not FIRE),
These people already hold BTC and PMs, and they've heard the same narrative around XMR from both sides:
Do not invest in XMR. It's only valuable for private transactions.
I don't see how sticking to this narrative helps move these people or attracts others like them

>being able to transact money easily across borders
People use tether for this. Yes it's a cucked surveillance coin, but it's available everywhere and arguably just as cheap to send to Uganda to cash out of a crypto ATM. Meanwhile we have a party every time there's another delisting.

>If we just pander to the moonfags and ngu crowd
Just pander? No.
Also pander? Yes.

>We currently have a great blue ocean strategy
Except the tools we need to execute that strategy either don't exist or are coming Soon™, and very few of us are capable of helping on that front. Shilling, donating, and hodling are things any of us can do right now.

>seeing things from a new angle and thereby taking advantage of our already established strengths.
Again, the 'transactional value' angle has been leaned on for 11 years. It's not new.

>NGU can not be a goal onto itself
Fair, but it's a measurement that we shouldn't ignore because moonboy bad

>what I'm arguing against is the treatment of ngu being the only (or even first) thing we should care about.
I'm attempting the same with the NO NGU NO INVESTMENT NO STORE OF VALUE P2P EXCHANGE IN FINAL DESTINATION ONLY narrative. I don't want the community to only focus on being a medium of exchange because at this point it's becoming very obvious that the semisweet-morsel-eyed faggots are just as bad as the laser-eyed faggots.

>>60962774
>I don't see how sticking to this narrative helps move these people or attracts others like them
How do you think you can be free if you're easily surveilled constantly easily while the government also is trying to go after tumblers?
>Yes it's a cucked surveillance coin
See above.
>Just pander? No.
That's precisely what is being done by trying to spin some ngu narrative. Mooning is used as a goal onto itself, not as a side effect of the market realizing the transactional potential of this coin. You know, the exact qualities I mentioned in my post and you ignored despite them being the main selling point of XMR.
>Except the tools we need to execute that strategy either don't exist or are coming Soon™
All we need is wider acceptance among merchants. Something that won't just come from ngu.
>Shilling, donating, and hodling are things any of us can do right now.
And mining which is what moonfags always ignore. For some reason you hate even the possibility of mining and it doesn't reflect on you well.
>It's not new.
Mooning scams aren't new either and will be the first thing to come to a regular person's mind when you try to argue about ngu potential.
>Fair, but it's a measurement that we shouldn't ignore because moonboy bad
I never said 'ngu bad', I said 'treating it like only ngu matters bad'
>I don't want the community to only focus on being a medium of exchange because at this point it's becoming very obvious that the semisweet-morsel-eyed faggots are just as bad as the laser-eyed faggots.
In my eyes you'll reach all of the moonfag goals if you focus on the core principle of XMR being a functional currency. The problem I have with moonfags is that they *solely* care about ngu. They'd accept ASIC-only mining, pos and whatever else would destroy XMR as long as their bags get pumped. If we truly believe in the market we should focus on our actual qualities.

>>60962933
>How do you think you can be free if you're easily surveilled constantly easily while the government also is trying to go after tumblers?
I know that, and so does everyone else ITT, but we're not the ones that need convincing.

>See above
See above

>You know, the exact qualities I mentioned in my post and you ignored
I ignored them because they're obvious to anyone who searched the term 'privacy coins', not because I find them irrelevant. >>60962933


>All we need is wider acceptance among merchants. Something that won't just come from ngu.
I would like to not have to rely soley on merchant adoption, since imo the best way to increase this is by building tools that a lot of us aren't capable of building. The second best is probably NGU.

>And mining
Yes i forgot about that. However, supporting miners by being exit liquidity for them and mining yourself are equitable imo

>Mooning scams aren't new either and will be the first thing to come to a regular person's mind when you try to argue about ngu potential
I'm comfortable with that risk. See below

>In my eyes you'll reach all of the moonfag goals if you focus on the core principle of XMR being a functional currency.
>If we truly believe in the market we should focus on our actual qualities.
I don't believe in the market that much. /biz/ is proof that the efficient market hypothesis is wrong. It's not wise to ignore the fact that markets move on FOMO and MOMO, not fundamentals. It's why I'm comfortable with the risk of coming across as another moonfag.

tradeogre has been seized by canadian law enforcement

https://tradeogre.com/
https://archive.ph/g6UtJ

>>60963606
It's over
Once Kraken delists I'll be forced to deal with the Jews on reto

>>60963606
Noice, that's a lot of xmr disappearing from the market.

>>60963606
nice
Jews had it coming

>>60958065
altchans might help

>>60963606
I cant access the links. Cloudflare block.

>>60963712
Just use trocador

>>60963606
F

I am hedging most of my federal reserve notes with Monero. Will it pay off? I don't know.

>>60963606
>>60964701

>>60963606
>https://tradeogre.com/
Yeah when they went offline I was thinking it might not be an exit scam. Too profitable simply running it legit. It would be retarded to rug a money-printing machine.

>>60964434
So what happens when they close trocador?

>>60931333
That's the opposite, people seeling monero from illegal activities would be expected to get rid of it quickly at a lower price

>>60930123
Just use cake wallet

Ok I legit don't get it, why are you all arguing about CEX and retro when you can just use cake wallet???

>>60966748
Cake wallet doesnt magically give you XMR. They do not exchange XMR.
They redirect you to another CEX. OR you can swap but you need another crypto already.
It's not like Cake is magic you dumb dick

>>60966748
Cake uses trocador to swap xmr.

>>60965554
If it was so profitable, why were they hosted in Canada, from all places?

>>60966921
>he trusted a leaf
LMAO
>t. leaf

>>60966802
>OR you can swap but you need another crypto already.
Yes? Just buy another crypto on your CEX or choice and swap for monero? What is hard here?
The problem I personally faced while buying on CEX is that they either didn't offer monero or they didn't allow withdrawals.

>>60966357
>So what happens when they close trocador?
We go balls deep on atomic swaps?

>>60967235
>The problem I personally faced while buying on CEX is that they either didn't offer monero or they didn't allow withdrawals.
Does BCH have these issues?
If not then BCH <-> XMR atomic swaps could 'solve' a lot of these issues. I personally have not tested out https://axeswap.net yet, but it'd be an interesting workaround for our current liquidity issues.

>>60967327
Swapping on cake wallet with any supported crypto works well.

Sold monero when it was in it's peak in may, should I buy more now or wait until it lowers more?

>>60968182
Wait. BTC will shit the bed at some point and the whole market will drop.

This place is a ghost town.

>>60968236
For real man. This shit needs to pump or nobody is gonna get interested and miners will leave since theres no money in it.

>>60968400
Good. It means it will be easier to mine.

>>60968511
It has to be at a better level for it to make sense for people to invest gear in it and maintain the network now. It basically only makes sense if you have a botnet right now.

On the upside this general and /SMG/ are basically the only two active generals on this board