/ck/ Tell me the truth about cross contamination and kitchen cleanliness. I was brought up by my dad telling me raw chicken was poison and every time you touch some you NEED to wash your hands before touching anything else. Histrionic morons on the internet will flip out if you run your sink over the knife you used to cut the chicken "THE PARTICLES IN THE AIR BROOO"
Then I watch videos of the classic chefs and its like they do not give a fuck. This pic was from Jacque Pepin roasting a chicken. He trussed his chicken then touched his butter dish, touched his pepper grinder, grabbed the handle of his pan. And I can only imagine what the Mexicans in the back of your favorite restaurant are doing with their hands.
Of course I'm not going to do something stupid like touch a raw chicken and then immediately prepare a salad, but I think the vast majority of people flipping out over cross contamination are just uninformed morons trying to act knowledgeable and the easiest thing they can do is parrot food safety rules and amplify them. Like the same morons who pretend to be gun nuts and then flip out "OMG HE PUT HIS FINGER OVER THE TRIGGER NO TRIGGER DISCIPLINE!!!"

So what's the truth /ck/? How careful are you when handling raw meats?

>wash hands before you start
>2 kitchen towels
>one for drying hands/utensils
>one for wiping hands/utensils
>some degree of mise en place
>prep veg
>prep meat
>you only need to wash again if your hands are covered in gristle/blood, otherwise just wipe
>cook
>clean as you go
>wash hands before you eat

Abandon the autism handwash. The safety standards you're kvetching about are for running a business. If you keep your kitchen clean, you do not need to go that far with gloves, hairnets etc. If I drop my steak on my floor, 5 second rule

Even the ones who go out of their way to tell the viewer about sanitizing and keeping things clean, when you watch closely they still break their own rules and cross contaminate. In this video Jean-Pierre pats down his chicken with a paper towel, you can clearly see his fingers touch the chicken, then he goes straight to flipping his onions. By their rules, now the handle of that pan is contaminated and every time he touches that pan he recontaminates his hands regardless how many times he wipes them with his sanitized towel.
A lot of the chef tubers will do nothing more than wipe their chicken hands on their apron and then go to touching other surfaces.

>>21393961 (OP)
Chef Jean Pierre talks about his bleach solution and wipes his hands with a rag soaked in that solution.

>>21393961 (OP)
It's more that it's just not worth the risk. Washing your hands is easier to deal with than food poisoning, even if the food poisoning has a very small chance of occurring.

>>21393980
>>21393982
This brings up a question I've had. How does it work in commercial kitchens?

>>21393985
Like another anon said the food safety rules are for running a business. They're meant to pound the idea into the heads of high school dropouts, drug addicts, and non-English speakers. You overcompensate with the understanding these people will follow 50% of the rules 50% of the time and that should be good enough to avoid killing anybody.

You shouldn't need to worry about cross contamination or cleanliness in your kitchen unless people are constantly getting sick. When that starts happening, use the 5 second rule if you weren't doing that before. Also, there's nothing wrong with cooking pork, chicken, and/or beef in the same pan at the same time, and don't wear gloves.

>>21393961 (OP)
I've learned to prep meat without touchit it direclty

>>21393997
When flipping in the pan do you clean the tongs between the raw and cooked stages? Use different tongs? Assume the heat of the meat will sterilize the tongs as you go?

>>21394002
Tongs for putting into the pot or pan then use pic related for flipping or a spoon for soup

>>21394002
How do people reach the age of 18 without ever learning these super basic things?
American schools are really failing their students, even if they ARE handing out diplomas. These kids will never survive in the real world if they can't even figure out how to cook.
Their parents should be angry about how these teachers aren't doing they jobs.

>>21393983
This is how I feel. I've always avoided contamination as much as possible. And with a bit of planning, you don't have to wash your hands loads of times. One useful tip is to only handle the meat with your left hand if possible. That leaves your right hand able to handle other stuff without contamination. I usually have some soapy water sitting in the sink beforehand as well so I don't have to touch the sink stuff with raw meat juice hands. I also put the utensils/chopping board etc in the sink once they're done touching raw meat to avoid accidental contamination.

>>21393961 (OP)
most modern bullshit that is being spread about contamination is "cover your ass" from companies that sell food. they don't want to get the blame if you get food poisoning.

rinsing meat does not spread germs
you do not need anything other than a wood cutting board.
you can use the same cutting board for everything, just wash it between types of food.
food does not go bad because of a date printed on it has gone by.
95% of food being thrown out was because the people throwing it out are stupid.

>>21393980
yes because he knows it's all bullshit.

>>21393961 (OP)
>I was brought up by my dad telling me raw chicken was poison and every time you touch some you NEED to wash your hands before touching anything else
Your dad grew up in a time when factory sanitation was harder to achieve, and raw poultry was much more likely to be infected with significant amounts of pathogens like salmonella. It's much less of an issue today but still happens sometimes, so it's at least worth avoiding contaminating high-risk things that you will be eating without additional cooking.
>morons on the internet will flip out if you run your sink over the knife you used to cut the chicken "THE PARTICLES IN THE AIR BROOO"
That's not a thing
>Of course I'm not going to do something stupid like touch a raw chicken and then immediately prepare a salad
Then you're good. That's all you really need, plus awareness of indirect contamination (ie, don't contaminate the end of the utensil you're about to use to toss the salad either)
>OMG HE PUT HIS FINGER OVER THE TRIGGER NO TRIGGER DISCIPLINE!!!
Putting your finger over the trigger when you aren't intending to fire is indeed bad trigger discipline and there's rarely a legitimate reason to do it.

>>21393961 (OP)
>"OMG HE PUT HIS FINGER OVER THE TRIGGER NO TRIGGER DISCIPLINE!!!"
people get accidentally shot because of things like this all the time. pointing out that you're doing something dangerous that could end someone in an instant doesn't make you a moron, you're a moron who can't take criticism if you get upset by that and refuse to acknowledge it instead of being more mindful in the future.

>>21394002
>do you clean the tongs between the raw and cooked stages?
See>>21393978 for wipe/wash procedure
>>21394014
>your whole post
anon, they are graduating kids who can't read, write or do math. home economics has been an elective and not a requirement since at least when I was born in the early 90s if not earlier
im assuming hippies are to blame for why cooking stopped being a universal skill, knowing what I know about gen x and after ability and interest to cook

>>21394105
oh also I forgot history too. Kids don't know any and what they think they know is false, edited by far left policy

>>21393961 (OP)
It's chicken, not polonium.
If everything is cooked it for the meal irrelevant in the first place, put your ingredients on the board where you just cut chicken, who cares.
Then you should clean the largest parts that came into direct contact and could when you don't think about it anymore transfer some - which are. your hands, the knife and all boards and plates it touched. But that's it.
Worrying about AIR PARTiCLES or such is retarded. They also don't have to be DISINFECTED or anything, just washing them with soap and water is enough. Trace amounts are harmless. You got an immune system for a reason.

>>21393961 (OP)
Germ theory is false.

>>21394134

Miasma ftw

>>21393961 (OP)
>He trussed his chicken then touched his butter dish, touched his pepper grinder,
lmao OP was right. Pepin the madman

>>21394128
how esl

Anon, all those food safety rules are for actual, literal retards. They're no different from warning labels on shit like a box of screws telling you not to let your kid eat them. It all only applies to retards since it took a retard to make those warnings necessary.

My mom ran a household with 4 kids. When there's 4 fuckers running around you while you're trying to cook a meal for a family of 6, cross contamination is the last thing on your mind.
She would basically throw a chicken on the counter (where our cats would just walk over and sit at btw), wipe the ass of one of the kids and continue cooking.

I was actually so used to a lack of food hygiene that I would prepare my sandwiches on a counter that wasn't cleaned yet from preparing dinner earlier; and where our cats ate on. I would pulk the cathair and foreign substances of my bread and eat it.

I only started realizing how unsanitary we lived when I had a gf starting to come over. She refused to eat at our place and until she explained me I didn't understand why.

Truth be told, none of us are prone to illnesses and we never got a food poisoning.

>>21394002
Ignore the other anons. This is a good question and also applies to wooden spoons, etc. I have thought about this a lot. While the technically correct answer is disinfect every step, here is my method that's kept my family and I safe:
If I'm scooping raw meat into, or around the pan and plan to use the utensil again I will do a quick wash with hot water and antibacterial soap. Once it gets cooking, I rinse with scalding hot water for 10-15 seconds. After that I stick it in the pan and rest it against the side for a minute or two. Usually whatever I'm cooking is boiling or simmering at this point. I take the utensil out of the food so it doesn't burn or take excessive wear. I give it a 2 second rinse to remove any residue and I place it on a clean(ish) spoon rest/tea plate. If I'm tasting with anything I'll do the same rinse and submerge method and put it on the same spoon rest. I'm not wasting five spoons to taste my sauce.

>>21394210
>Pulk the Cathair
>cathair (noun): a boil or sore
Anon your typo accidentally created a pretty badass name for a soldier of Nurgle's army

>>21393961 (OP)
Man, my power went out for 20 hours last week. I didnt throw shit away. Food safety guidelines are for restaurants and grocery stores.

>>21393961 (OP)
>bud air
>*schlurp*

>>21393961 (OP)
I just wear disposable plastic gloves and change them as needed.

Also Pepin probably isn’t a good example as it’s rumored he’s debilitated by parasites and food borne illnesses. In fact in your pick I think he’s only in his mid 30’s

>>21394214
Based thinker, it’d be great to have a small boiling water tap if only for this reason.

>>21393994
I mean, do kitchen wagies just wipe with a bleachy towel and that's it?

Have any of you ever gotten sick after touching a raw steak and then touching a plate or something? I haven't either. I'm something of a clean freak, but even I recognize that I'm retarded in that way.

>>21393961 (OP)
Is that the dude from the spill the paint sexual PSA video?

>>21393961 (OP)
Pepin is too old to give a shit.
>How careful are you when handling raw meats
Very careful. The biggest thing to prevent food poisoning issues is to not be a retard and actually think about what you're doing when you prepare, and don't be a cheapass who only ever uses one board and one knife.
The thing about food poisoning is that it's managing risk. If you don't follow it, you increase the risk of having an issue and the risk compounds the more you fail with it.
You might cross contaminate something, but nothing happens, maybe you didn't eat the thing that could have made you sick, or you later washed something. whatever.
but if you do it again, maybe this time you do eat something that has been contaminated, or cooked improperly, or stored in a manner that means the contamination from bacteria won't be removed by cooking.
and that time you might get sick. in the usa it's estimated, over the whole year, 1 out of 6 people will get sick from food poisoning. about 5.6 million people.
you might get the shits for day. maybe you end up sick for a week.
but you might end up in hospital. Out of that 5.6 million people in the USA who get sick about 1 in 450 of those will end up in hospital.
And out of that 1 in 450 who end up in hospital, 3000 of them, or 1 in 70 will die.
Most of those will be old people who probably would have died anyway, but do you really want to be the one guy who dies aged 25 or whatever because he got worked by the tiktok "men when cooking" meme videos and decided to be a big strong manly man who never washes anyway?

>>21394976
I hope you never drive a car, cross the street, or fly in a plane. Just imagine the statistical certainty of DEATH lurking around every corner. Never leave your house! What if you trip and break your neck??

>>21394987
>hurr durr taking precautions is exactly the same as not doing that thing in the first place
ok sir do the needful and learn the difference between risk mitigation and refusal to do something.

>>21393961 (OP)
i rinse my hands with water when i touch raw meat. and i'll wash them when i'm all done cooking. and, like you said, i won't grossly cross contaminate if i'm doing something like making a salad. and i'll clean the spoon, tongs, etc. when it's done touching raw meat.

excessive hand washing is autism.
wearing gloves in your home kitchen is autism.

>>21393961 (OP)
those cleanliness rules were originally taught to people who could be serving people with compromised immune systems
but the redditors who were taught it missed that point entirely and decided to use the factoids they learned as a cudgel to signal how smart they are

>>21395350
No you dumb AMERICAN. Go search for the Swiss Cheese Model of accidents. You try as much as possible to remove any potential sources of accidents in your workflow, basically stuff you can control to minimize the effect of uncontrollable happenstance. Washing your hands in between handling raw poultry/meats is an easy, cheap way to control for cross contamination. In developer countries, the chickens are usually fairly clean anyways, but what IF one day you get a bad batch? You'll shit your guts out and if your 80 year old momma ate the salad you made and died horribly in her pool of diarrhea, then the fault literally lies in your hands.

>>21393961 (OP)
>And I can only imagine what the Mexicans in the back of your favorite restaurant are doing with their hands.
This. Every Mexican place will make tacos using the lowest quality meat possible that's like the kind you get from school lunches and you can just make homemade tacos and fajitas
that are amazing and actually edible.
>order chicken fajitas, a simple dish and staple in texmex places
>14 USD for 3 small tortillas and the fajita trimmings
>trimmings barely have any chicken, it's all just strifried onions, green peppers, and tomatoes
>the chicken that's actually there is very small pieces that looked like it came out of a can instead of anything resembling actual chicken, and there's barely any of it compared to onions and peppers
>the Mexican rice is Spanish rice in a dry clump
>refried beans look like they're from a can
>chips tasted like they're from a bag of great value restaurant chips from Walmart and the salsa is watery with too much onion
>all the effort of the restaurant goes into the atmosphere and not the food of it

>>21393961 (OP)
>This pic was from Jacque Pepin roasting a chicken. He trussed his chicken then touched his butter dish, touched his pepper grinder, grabbed the handle of his pan.
i wonder what he says when people recording it call him out
it probably sounds funny in his accent

>>21394214
>I rinse with scalding hot water for 10-15 seconds.
Scalding hot water does not kill germs or destroy pathogens.

Bacteria like Campylobacter and Shigella, which require only a small number of bacteria to cause symptoms, are scary.
They don't need time to grow.

Never cared about it, never got sick. Faggots who wash their hands every time they touch something raw are weak.

>>21396381
you're a weak pussy faggot, my 80 year old momma never had the level of sanitation that we have now and survived

>>21397155
i've never been in a serious car accident but i still wear a seatbelt whenever i'm in a car
is that weak?

>>21397322
Yes.

>>21393961 (OP)
use latex/disposable gloves. not enough people do this.
yes, cleanliness is important but you don't have to be autistic about it. generally, as long as substances aren't in direct contact then you're probably fine. I would be wary about anything raw (i.e. you sliced some chicken, and then chopped some raw carrots you intend to eat raw on the same unwashed cutting board; that's probably bad, but the same isn't true if you are going to cook those same carrots).

>>21398304
the reason you've survived this long is not because you're tough
it's because you're lucky
lucky all the grown ups around you behave like grown ups while you behave like a child
you deserve a darwin award, and would have have got one if not for all the people around you babysitting you
and here you are acting hard, because you didn't get hurt in a battle you've never heard of while the rest of us carry you

>>21398432
Vax status?

>>21397132
Are you really stupid enough to try and make the argument that boiling hot water has no bacteria killing properties?

>>21399972
not that anon, but to kill bacteria, water needs to be boiled for about a minute
hot water is used in cleaning cutlery and dishes because it softens the food residue
if you washed your hands in water hot enough to kill bacteria you'd be in trouble

>>21398440
not that it makes a difference, but i wasn't vaccinated

>>21394999
No.
Mitigate this
*farts*

>>21400208
What does the time boiling have shit to do with anything, are you trying to cook the water? It's about temperature and rinsing off particles yes. My water heater is turned up all the way and the water does come out nearly boiling. No way I can keep my hands in it for more than 2 seconds. The wooden spoons steam when I pull them out and dry them off. Lately to be extra safe though, I switch immediately to cold well water after the hot rinse to shock everything. Idc what Google tells you. There's not much of anything that can go from boiling hot to ice cold in a few seconds and not die.

>>21400604
>What does the time boiling have shit to do with anything
Boiling water doesn't kill bacteria instantly. Dishes need to be submerged in boiling water for a certain amount of time before they're sterilized.

>>21397132
He says he washes it with antibacterial soap before that. Are you retarded?

>>21400593
*inhales*

>>21400679
100% sterilized like you're going to perform surgery, sure. Suitably sterilized for cooking use, doesn't take long.

>>21400604
You just confirmed that you have no idea how sanitation works. You just made up some rules in your head that sound smart.

>>21398315
>as long as substances aren't in direct contact then you're probably fine
Couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
It has nothing to do with things touching your skin and anyone working in the industry would tell you wearing gloves is a bigger risk of cross contamination than not.

>>21393961 (OP)
If you live in the first world, don't literally buy groceries from the gas station, and eat things before they have a chance to go bad then you're fine. I've had 2-4 raw eggs every day since I was 12, I like slightly undercooked ham, and regularly enjoy beef tartare. Despite all that, I have never gotten food poisoning.

>>21393961 (OP)
The same germophobes who fear raw meat are the ones who only eat well done steak.

>>21393980
There is also the volume of germs being transferred. A wiped hand touching a handle then touching it again isn't the same amount as rubbing raw chicken on the handle.

>>21394002
I just put the tongs in the hot oil/juice for a few seconds once it turns to "cooked" on the outside.

>>21401936
I eat my steak medium. I don't mind eating pink beef as long as I know it's not contaminated. There's sometimes potentially harmful bacteria on the outside of the steak. That's why you should cook the outside of the steak, but can leave the inside uncooked. That's why you shouldn't transfer the raw meat juices to another surface that could end up with that bacteria going in someone's mouth. It's not germophobic, it's reality. I'm not saying it'll kill anyone who eats it. It might not even make a healthy person ill at all. But why take an unnecessary risk?

>>21402953
>why take an unnecessary risk?
If you have prime (or even good quality choice) steak, then making it anything but raw, blue rare, or rare is a waste of meat.

>>21394210
I refuse to eat at cat people's houses even if they're "clean"

>>21403011
I prefer it medium. Wouldn't it be a waste for me to cook it in a way that I'll enjoy less? I'm probably not getting top tier meat though to be honest.

>>21393961 (OP)
In recent times I realised these "rules" are made so that absolute retards can follow them and be safe, or are just outdated. If you are not absolutely retarded and have some common sense, you don't need to be bound by them. For example, it's fine to eat some slightly undercooked chicken or pork, but people are adamant that "it HAS to reach this temperature or it's literally poison", because some government health agency has set out some guidelines that ensure that even the most rancid, stinky, almost green chicken breast, covered in filth and handled by a greasy indian man won't cause you to die when taking a bite. Obviously eating raw chicken might carry some risks, and small pieces of meat can rot and be accidentally ingested. The best way to guarantee that any one person, no matter how stupid, does not keel over and die is by going complete scorched-earth with your guidelines and be 100% sure that if followed nothing will survive.
The same thing can be said for slightly-off smelling meat. Most people's judgement is fucked. Unless the meat is absolutely rancid, you can probably eat it. If you have never smelled rancid meat, you might mistake a slight off-smell (which indicates you should eat it soon), for the meat being 100% rotten, which is not the case.
Rant over.

>>21403039
>The best way to guarantee that any one person, no matter how stupid, does not keel over and die is by going complete scorched-earth
This will give you cancer for sure

>>21403024
It depends on the amount of marbling. Conventional wisdom is to cook steak until the marbling just begins to melt, which happens at either rare or medium rare depending on the steak. If the steak is tough or has gristle then medium to well done is generally better, and if it's a really good cut then blue rare has a unique, sushi-like texture that's different but often just as good as the rest.