So according to Alberto Grandi's book "La Cucina Italiana Non Esiste", or "Italian Cuisine Doesn't Exist" (which sadly has yet to see an English translation), many "traditional" Italian dishes etc. were actually developed or popularized after World War II. And often through marketing and globalization, rather than being ancient, authentic culinary practices.

Some examples:

>carbonara
Invented right after WW2: American military bros stationed in Italy wanted canned macaroni/bacon/cheese/powdered eggs shit, and the recipe spread back into the villages of Italy

>tiramisu
Late 60s and early 70s, meaning the dish is approximately as old as my parents

>pizza margherita
An American invention, and the story of the dish being invented for Princess Margherita and the toppings representing the colors of the Italian flag is fake.

>panettone
Originated post-Industrial Revolution, as a manufactured rather than a homemade product

Regardless of the actual factual accuracy of his claims, Grandi was widely criticized for cultural blasphemy. But what do you think?

True-ish.
Savoury custards as sauces for pasta have existed in Naples for a very, very long time but the use of pancetta to make them is postwar.
The margherita story is a fiction but tomato and cheese, though not strictly mozzarella, on pizza has existed much longer than American pizza has. The codification of margherita under a specific definition is postwar, though.
While similar yeast risen cakes with dried fruits have been a thing in Italy for two thousand years, panettone itself /might be/ postwar. I'm not actually sure on this one. I don't even like it so I don't care enough to look.
Tiramisu is 100% postwar and it's shit so I don't actually care. Honestly, most Italian sweets are terrible.
t. guy from Italy

>>21487994 (OP)
Italy itself a fairly new state having formed in like the 1860s. Something older or more authetic would have to be a local cuisine from one of the different regions or provinces.

>>21487994 (OP)
"Italian cuisine doesn't exist" is a troll title.

What you have is a bunch of regional cuisines that coalesced into a national tradition relatively recently. But there's plenty of Italian dishes with deep roots that go back centuries.

>>21488043
>What you have is a bunch of regional cuisines that coalesced into a national tradition relatively recently.
But isn't that most cuisines really?

>>21487994 (OP)
He's correct about everything, including Wisconsin being better at making cheese than modern Italy

>>21489088
Well then you’d have to say every cuisine on earth doesn’t exist
>erm india didn’t get tomatoes or chilis until the columbian exchange so indian food doesn’t exist
>also biryani is persian
>and coconuts came from southeast asia so the coconut curries aren’t really indian!
But no one does it for brown people, they just want to tear down europeans

>>21487994 (OP)
Every single time

>>21488037
>Italy itself a fairly new state having formed in like the 1860s
Nobody is so autistic that he would claim something is not Italian prior to that date.

Specific recipes and dishes we know internationally by name were popularized/invented around WW2. Specifically, they were brought back to America, where they became immensely popular, which led to them also becoming more popular in Italy (international popularity feeds back into national popularity).
But of course these dishes were really invented in Italy as a result of their culinary tradition. So I don't think it's really fair to say that Italian cuisine doesn't exist.

>>21489134
so its all commie lies

>>21488043
In a way its true but its with an asterisk. Italian Cuisine in the way Italian Americans like to remember it and paint it as, doesn't exist. A lot of the stuff was invented in America, but then fed back to Italy.

>>21489428
>invented in America
No
Italian American food was invented in America. Nobody in Italy knows what the fuck It Is

>>21489098
>But no one does it for brown people, they just want to tear down europeans
you're just a cuck with a victim complex. This is a western website so we focus on western foods. poor brown food gets a pass here because we don't understand it enough to critique. simple as

>>21487994 (OP)
A meatball parmigiana sub can be safely said to be authentic, since people have been putting meat and sauce on bread since the dawn of time.

>>21489498
Even fondue has less cheese than that.

>>21489134
So he's right.

>>21489098
Food, restaurants and recipe books are real, but national cuisines and recipes are just ideas.
>Are we immoralists doing harm to virtue?—Just as little as the anarchists are harming the princes. Only since the princes have been shot at have they been sitting securely on their thrones again. Moral: one must take shots at morality.

>>21489098
Just because a cuisine heavily borrows from others doesn't mean it's any less real

>>21489220
Venetians don't even claim to be Italian today.

>>21489896
Yeah and if my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike.

>tfw in 100 years we would be able to trace all the recipes on the world to a little kitchen that existed somewhere in a cave in the sub-Saharan Africa 80 000 years ago.

>>21489915
>wypipo dint invent dey food

>>21489915
>tfw in 100 years we would be able to trace all the recipes on the world to a little kitchen that existed somewhere in a cave in the sub-Saharan Africa 80 000 years ago.
And that was when certain demon possessed tribes decided to cross the forbidden rivers, taking with them our melanin magic and the knowledge to create fire.

>>21489454
kek but that stuff happens outside of 4chan, it doesn't happen here at all
massive retard alert

>>21487994 (OP)
I think you'd be surprised at how much of the common food we eat wasn't invented until 1945 or later. I just live with this fact and have to live with the idea that 80 years has to be enough. When I want to dig deeper there are historical recipe books and entire YouTube channels devoted to ancient recipes, and while they are interesting those types of recipes rarely match modern palates.

>>21487994 (OP)
I find it interesting that the Italian diaspora spread some regional dishes in Argentina that Italians themselves don't eat as much anymore.

The Friulan Salami tradition in Colonia Cayora, Vitello Tonnato which is an obscure Lombard dish but it's a mainstream Christmas tradition here, the chickpea pies known faina (served as a pizza sidedish), descend from the Genoese farinata, etc.

In Italy these dishes are still eaten but I think they are kinda obscure regional cuisine there.

>>21487994 (OP)
I find it interesting that the Italian diaspora spread some regional dishes in Argentina that Italians themselves don't eat as much anymore.

The Friulan Salami tradition in Colonia Caroya, Vitello Tonnato which is an obscure Lombard dish but it's a mainstream Christmas tradition here, most families serve it as a Christmas entree (if they are not doing a BBQ), the chickpea pies known faina (served as a pizza sidedish and extremely mainstream), descend from the Genoese farinata, etc.

In Italy these dishes are still eaten but I think they are kinda obscure regional cuisine there.

>>21490357
>Vitello Tonnato
* Piamontese, not Lombard... mb