Scorpion should have become like the Reverse Flash for Spider-Man, not a Shocker like goof.
>Venom took his niche
Kinda but not really, Venom is much more the "Shadow the Hedgehog" than the "Scourge the Hedgehog", his design and being mirrors Spidey but he's also totally different, brings his own themes that almost don't even fit with Spidey, and was always more mentally warped and angst ridden moreso than outright evil

Scorpion's "insanity" seemed to present as an unhinged turn towards violence and petty cruelty, which is perfect for a long term antagonist rival for Peter bleeding heart Parker

>>149009969 (OP)
>Venom is much more the "Shadow the Hedgehog" than the "Scourge the Hedgehog"

Lol. I'll take your word for it.

>>149009969 (OP)
I don't know about Sonic stuff, buddy, but I think you make a fair point. Gargan's always been wasted potential.

>>149009969 (OP)
I wish toybiz never went defunct

Also im still mad the scorpion end credits scene never payed off. Seeing cholo scorpion go full MS-13 on tom holland wouldve been the tits

>>149009969 (OP)
IT WAS ME PETER
MEEEEE

>>149009969 (OP)

So Doc Ock?

>>149009969 (OP)
That 90s toyline was so fucking awesome. It started out with crap with minimal articulation so they can put gimmicks in all toys (like squeeze Venoms legs together so he can open his mouth more), but also had a multi-articulation Spidey that had mind blowing good posability for the time. Then by the last years they came up with this thing.

>>149009998
Venoms earliest appearances played him as a delusional guy who thought himself the hero and his "crusade" justified, which is why his eventual turn to anti hero fully wasn't only logical, but the only way to take him other than killing him off

>>149010179
Dock Ock is like Captain Cold, a bitter arch nemesis who is more logical than crazy, even if Otto is a megalomaniac he's not the kind of butter rival type like Reverse Flash, he's also not a good physical match and it always feels like a reach when they try to make him one.

In a fight Ock is one note, it's a game of keep away with his arms like Dhalsim, cause one punch and he should be out since no powers or even armor

>>149010260
I got that toy in the early 2010s and still have it somewhere

>>149009969 (OP)
He should join the Masters of Evil.
Or maybe some new iteration of the Dark Avengers

He can't get much play in Spider-Man's Rogue's Gallery because there are better, more popular members of the Sinister Six

But on a more generalized supervillain team you could have him tussling with all sorts of heroes

It could help improve his rep to show that he's a physical threat to even A-Listers like Carol, and in turn it helps Spidey's rep

>>149010322
And yeah Venom is too far fetched to be a Reverse Flash type. He's an spider guy, but also an alien slime monster human fusion. Just like Shadow is kinda edgy Sonic, but not really because he's an emo ultimate lifeform bio weapon spawned from a body horror newt kaiju in outer space

>>149010414
Spider Man only has like three villains who never were put in mook status, Gob, Ock, Venom and by extension Carnage

>>149010322
Then you want early venom. Failed reporter. Shitty family life. Not too bright. Vindictive and would taunt Pete's family. Near same power set.

>>149011157
Early Venom still wasn't evil, he had an honor code, he was "warped" not evil

He played cat and mouse with Peter and it worked with the horror elements of Venom, but he never was the kind of sadist bastard Scorpion should be, again Reverse Flash level is what I'm talking. Venom wouldn't even hurt MJ, just scared her

>>149009969 (OP)
The main difference is that Venom has an amazing look. People want to use him and readers want to see him because he looks really cool.

Scorpion is just another boring green guy with stripes. There's a shitload of those that at least have something cooler going on with it. Dock Ock, Vulture, Sandman, Mysterio, Electro, Beetle, Norman, and Lizard are green too. Gargan is just the green evil bug guy.

Dock Ock has the evil genius angle
Norman is the evil trickster guy with wacky gadgets
Mysterio is the plotter schemer that is more inside your head
Sand Man and Electro are the dumb lugs who lucked up and got top tier superpowers
Lizard is the friend who cannot help what he does

Venom does a better job of being the evil bug guy while having a great look
Hobgoblin does a good job of being an evil scheme type who also has a good look to keep people interested

>>149011205
Or Aunt May, Venom was a creepy weirdo who confused Peter with his morality. Peter could use someone actually as strong as he is but would absolutely massacre his family given the chance, and Carnage doesn't really count....he got too OP too quickly and is more of an event villain

>>149011414
Peter is still missing a Reverse Flash style rival though even with all these though that's my point. He can be the pure evil continuous rival Venom never was nor could ever be, because Venom is the anti hero

>>149011414
Sandman and Electro are the biggest key downs, literally godlike powers but are zero threat, just gonna get shorted out or sucked up in a vacuum cleaner why read the story!

>>149011506
Batman never had a good one either, after a shitload of really bad attempts. Some heroes just don't get them.

>>149011603
They are also pretty good mirrors to Peter though. Pete being the low class nobody that got powers, while Marko and Dillon also being low class fucking nobodies who got powers one day and just sort of fuck around with them while keeping low scale.

>>149009969 (OP)
Honestly, he looks stupid and his gimmick is boring. His power is having a giant tail.

>>149011603
you gotta have the godlike goons with grapes for brains. it can be fun.

>>149011677
It's a fifth limb that has a ton of utility:
>a straightforward bludgeon
>extend to choke/squeeze like a snake
>stab/slash with the spike
>Shoot poison/acid/electric taser for mid range attacks

And that's just the tail alone. The man himself has the same basic powers as Spider-Man except for the Spider-Sense, except stronger

>>149011677
He's exactly the same as Spider-Man. Enhanced everything with bug tech weapon

>>149009969 (OP)
Scorpion was only interesting when he was trying to kill JJJ and a constant reminder of that period where Lee and Ditko wrote JJJ as an honest to goodness supervillain ala post Crisis Luthor, using his wealth trying to find new ways to murder Spiderman before later writers made JJJ a woke goody goody

>>149011603
Sandman is proof that Peter's villains can reform and become good guys. Elektro meanwhile is just OP so you constantly have to nerf him to make him vs Spidey a fair fight

>>149011810
The tail could cure cancer and I'd still find it a lame gimmick. Sorry.

>>149011919
I mean not like Ock or Vulture have real motivations lol, Scorpion is at least insane from his experiment so that's his excuse to be all violent and destructive

>>149012019
Then how do you like Spider-Man, Lizard, Ock, Wolverine, Sabertooth, etc etc who all just have "animal anatomical feature as a weapon" ?

Didn’t Gargan get the venom symbiote at some point? I didn’t read that run. How did it turn out with him?>>149010260

Man, that looks like a bad ass toy.

>>149011677
He's a lesser version of at least three different villains.

Lesser Ock since he has one robot limb with less utility than Otto's 4.
Lesser evil opposite than Venom who does a better job as Peter's opposite number
Lesser total loser with decent superpowers than Electro.

>>149009969 (OP)
>Scorpion being evil Spider-Man, but also really petty about it.
>Also hates Venom because he clearly hates Spider-Man more then the space goo.

>>149012147
Scorpion and Ock aren't comparable lol. A tail is not arms, and Ock isn't a fighter like Gargan

Ock revolves around mad scienc, Scorpion is a physical fighter. And the differences between him and Venom are clear if you read the actual Venom era comics, something I realize few on this board have with all the misconceptions about who Venom is from shit like the cartoons and movies

>>149009969 (OP)
Doc Ock/4 - Brains = Scorpion

he was robbed from a good role, I hate mcu spider-man so much

>>149012246
Venom stopped being a villain in 1993 and debuted in like what, 89? He had more pages as an anti hero before the late 90s where pretty much everyone stops caring about Marvel 616 canon

>>149012147
Otto is only pushed as a major foe because comic writers are ugly fat asses like him and self insert. No kid ever wanted a Doc Ock toy and he really never had an iconic story

>>149012103
It wasn't great for Gargan or the symbiote

A lot of brain eating and cannibalism, unstoppable mindless monster stuff that Osborn kept on a leash
But I guess it being Gargan at least meant Eddie got to keep his rep

>>149011205
>Venom wouldn't even hurt MJ, just scared her

He beat up Black Cat until she was a sobbing mess though.

>>149012246
Doesn't matter. Otto is the more popular mechanical arms guy and Venom is the more popular bad bug powered guy. Scorpion is second rate among more popular villains.

>>149012426
This is just genuinely wrong on countless levels

>>149012426
So you never read a single issue from the 80s or 90s got it!
Fuck off casualfag, you have no place in this conversation.

>>149012492
I only cared about Venom and Harry Goblin, the real villains who mattered. Ock represents the worst aspects of Spider-Man, nerd self insertion, forgettable stories, and outdated 60s scifi

>>149009969 (OP)
It never made sense for him to have the tail after his first story.
Gargan is not a tech guy, he has no idea how to build a robot tail or repair it when it breaks. He does not work for any big tech guys that would supply him with tail parts or upgraded tails like Mandarin, Hammer, or AIM. Moderately strong guy who has a robot tail seems kind of weird. He seems much more like a guy that would goon for a bigger tech guy like Thinker or Hammer and be more of an Iron Man villain and go hand with Blizzard and Melter.

At least Norman is a moderately strong guy that can build his own gadgets for the scheme of the week.

>>149011810
I never saw Scorpion walk on walls. And yeah, web is technically not Spider-Man's power but it's majority of his arsenal considering all the variants he came up with. Peter also possesses incredible intellect (when written by competent people)
Gargan is just a pig-headed brute. There is only so many times we can see Spidey avoiding splash of acid and getting squeezed or slapped by the tail. Scorpion's arsenal is boring and he himself is too dumb to ever change in any meaningful way. Remember when he had the symbiote?
Yeah, nobody does.

>>149012565
There's the Tinkerer, or the new girl Rabble for low level crooks to get advanced supervillain tech

And Gargan has worked for big Corps like Alchemax and Roxxon.
And he most recently worked for the Cape-Killers so the government picked up the bill for any upgrades

>>149012565
>>149012588
Scorpion was originally stuck in his suit, but regardless all he has to do is go to some back alley villain tech guy to repair his tail off panel like anyone assumes exists in this world, or be funded by various people like he actually usually is in the comics, it's kinda a non issue in a world where multiple villains are born by stumbling upon super science randomly

Plus Spidey needs more physical foes, elemental foes are wasted on a strength based hero who always wins, Kravens and Vulture are just ridiculous and lame, and Goblin and Venom aren't regular foes, Goblin ascended and Venom reformed

>>149012588
How many times do we have to see Spidey dodge a rushing Rhino who runs into a wall?
Or web up Vulture's wings so he can't fly
Or use some sort of electricity resistant webfluid to use against Electro?

All of his classic goes have gotten repetitive. Gargan isn't unique in that respect

>>149012565
>>149012588
A superstrong guy that sticks to walls seems like he would be an amazing thief. Crawl up a wall, through a ceiling tile and around all security to steal things or break into a lab etc.

Gargan might be a fun hire if he had someone like Hammer willing to fund him and send him in to go steal Stark stuff

If there's one thing that the new shitty Disney Spider-Man show did, it was how easily it is to make Gargan a threat. Just have him be a strength spec Spider-Man.

Or hell, if he doesn't fit in the current landscape of Spidey villains, run with that. Make him an outsider to the villains. I don't care how. Make him a vigilante to run with him being JJJ's "Better Spider-Man" but still being...well, Gargan. or Hell, bring back Superior Spider-Man and have Gargan having to be "Better than Superior".
Run with the fact that he's more of a mechanic with his tail than Spider-Man is an engineer with his suits and shooters.

Scorpion's plenty easy to get back up and running, you just need to do stuff with him.
A new mask would be a good start.

the tail is a goofy look.

Personally idk why he gets a rep for looking dumb. Sure, his OF design is bad, but it's easily fixed

Electro (no explanation needed), Ock (Elton John), Mysterio (Literally a bowl on his head), Kraven (Village People reject), Rhino (A kids Halloween costume), all look way dumber than modernized Scorpion looks

>>149013133
He looks like an action figure, the others look camp. Lots of Spideyfags are campfags who prefer quirk over cool

>>149013076
How do you feel about The Lizard then???

>>149013152
Notice how all the attempts at making superficially cool new villains for Spidey in the past 10 years don't work remotely at all like the villains that have endured for longer 40 years or more. Like they are genuinely good characters and designs which have made for one of the most enduring and notable rogues gallery in comics.

>>149012768
That's another thing too, these guys never get wins, the stakes never feel real anymore, or in forever

Spider-Man has become borderline SoL and it's horrible. Unless they pull retarded shit like OMD, Superior, Kindred etc, like I've read comics that made The Penguin seem like a proper villain why can't Spideys guys be actually threatening anymore

>>149012440
she's a supervillain

>>149013207
That's because the new ones suck, like a kid wouldn't want a toy if Me Negative or Kindred either, you need a middle ground. Venom is perfect in this regard, looks like he fits in a spandex wearing world, but also looks cool.

>>149013133
I do hope they keep the Hannibal Lecter helmet from the Disney show. Probably the best modern take on his classic mask.

And this one.

>>149013238
Because sadly it feels like most comic writers aren't interested in using the villains anymore unless to shit on them or use them as throwaway for whatever dumb plotline they are working on in Marvel except if they are either one they really like or the obvious big name A-Lister bad guys, though even then that's not guranteed. Last time Spidey's villains got any actually decent use was Spencer to be honest and even then it wasn't perfect.

>>149010260
neat, reminds me of this thing

>>149013303
That is explicitly the same thing

>>149013295
People were saying it since around fear itself era.

>>149013270
Honestly Mr Negative at least has cool looking minions even if he's just a guy in suit but glowy coloured, Kindred is almost cool but all the dumb bullshit around the character sadly derails them and honestly he feels more like a Spawn or Haunt villain. Frankly it says a lot that the better new Spidey villains are Beetle(Janice), Scorpia, Overdrive and other guys who are smaller scale that fit right in thematically and visually even if in some instances it's cribbing an established mantle but with a new spin.

>>149013321
>explicitly

>>149013292
I like how he's drawn in the Miles Morales comic cause it gives him a evil luchador mask pattern while keeping the skin tight over his mouth while seeing his teeth design detail. Also I'll say Scorpion should never be drawn with a nose while having the mask on.

>>149011677
he should have pincers too

>>149011205
>Early Venom still wasn't evil, he had an honor code
Anon,he literally killed a cop at the church by choking him

>>149013396
Killing a cop is a heroic deed now

I love this crazy goon

>>149013396
Yeah because his code was "anyone who gets in my way must die for the greater good" not "bahaha I love gutting cops" which would be more Gargans idea of fun

Venom was only shown revelling in death when it was a criminal, or Spider-Man lol

>>149013076
He just doesn't have a good look at all in the first place. Weird tail, boring green tights with horizontal lines for no good reason. Mouth hole in the mask also for no special reason. He's a mix of weird and boring.

>>149011414
The big problem with Scorpion is that they never ran with him as JJJ's lackey. Imagine if he were a recurring character who would sometimes pop up at the worst possible times to rally the crowd against Spider-man while playing "the 'hero' who will unmask Spider-man".

Then he'd have a cool niche in Spider-man's rogue gallery as a fake hero on JJJ's payroll. Could even have him popping up after Spider-man cleans up a mess and chase Spider-man off the scene, then claim credit just to rub salt in Peter's wounds when an obvious villain is being hailed as a hero for what HE did.

>>149013512
Venom also does hunt down criminals vigilante style before his official "face turn" so really he went from crazy antihero who really is only villainous when Spidey is involved, to just regular antihero

>>149013207
It's incredibly hard to update a 60s character because there will forever be an army of classic fags that will demand it be changed back or some writer will get on the book and change everything back to the 60s stupid look all over again no matter how many times it changed. Killer Moth is especially plagued by this shit.

Even if the look is really good and people love it, some asshole will get on a book and change it back. Everyone fucking loved the 2006 updated yellow lantern Sinestro costume, fans finally thought he for once had a decent design. Snyder gets on a JLA book in 2018 and puts him right back in the stupid blue jester suit because CLASSIC!

90s Scorpion and Vulture actually looked good, but they weren't CLASSIC enough for 60s fags so they are back to the old boring costumes again.

>>149013396
This always gets brought up when the page is there specifically so Eddie can monologue about not wanting to take innocent life unless "needed". The cop death itself was a plot device to show Venom wasn't a pure evil villain but some weird in between zone of twisted morals

>>149013714
Ironically Scorpion has gotten a recent design update in his appearances in Miles Morales artificial hype issues. It's actually pretty good.

>>149013512
Venom is a character like Babe, adaptations always simplify him one way or the other to be more typical of a character than his comic personality. Sometimes like with TAS certain changes worked fine but usually they miss the mark

>>149013512
Venom is a character like Bane, adaptations always simplify him one way or the other to be more typical of a character than his comic personality. Sometimes like with TAS certain changes worked fine but usually they miss the mark

>>149009969 (OP)
>Superman has Bizarro, Zod, and Cyborg Superman
Spider-Man needs an evil robot clone

>>149014779
Spider-Slayer upgrade time

>>149009969 (OP)

>>149010414
He was on a Masters of Evil and bungled the first phase so he was benched and left in prison while useful people like Moonstone and Tiger Shark were re-retrieved.

>>149016232
Tiger Shark is great

If they played up the private investigator thing instead of just failing and going all in brute force, he might have worked better.

>>149015953
JJ is Spidey's reverse-flash

>>149016427
Spuder-Man specifically needs more action oriented enemies to pull it out of comedy/sol, and more ruthless enemies to up the stakes and bring real drama, not just relationship melodrama. Friends or lovers need to die, lightning must crash, torn costumes spraying blood

>>149016585
Spider-Man already has a lack of friends and lovers. Plus you have to compete with Carnage for being the walking massacre.

>>149016627
Carnage is beyond Spider-Man villain status though, he can't just show up in a random story, when Carnage shows up it takes teams of heroes or like Venom and a symbiote task force or something. Either that or it's something lighthearted where he's being a goofy retard with Deadpool or an inverted personality or w/e Cletus antics

>>149009969 (OP)
Scorpion was pretty much always a chump. The issue is that there's just not much in the way of personality for him to latch onto. He's a thug, that's really it.

>>149016734
Friends shouldn't be dying to random jerk-offs. Or at least not rerun random jerk-offs.

>>149016921
Well that's Marvels fault for being shit at writing villains. Joker hogs the spotlight but really you could see a few of Batman's enemies effecting his personal life, I understand Spider-Man is a little more lighthearted but it doesn't have to be to the point that none of his villains are serious

You know what I hate about Scorpion?
He's supposed to be a PI, but that rarely plays into his characterization. Him actively stalking and tormenting somebody "I know where you live, do as I say unless you want something bad to happen" kind of thing would make him a better villain tenfold

>>149017828
I was reading again his first issue the other day and thought the same thing. That would make him more interesting, and would still feel natural

>>149013199
he has a lizard body and face, so its cool. scorpion is GUY with a TAIL. its not very scary or cool
>>149013636
I agree, its just lazy. sandman has a similarly stupid design, but the fact that he has a fun/dangerous sand power and had a cliche 'tough guy who hit a bad break in his life' personality helped people overlook it. but sandman is pretty stupid too and not that popular

>>149013238
The story then becomes a day without Spider-Man where other heroes only handle his rogues by massively upping the collateral damage and completely misunderstand the level of NYC villains when they arent obsessed with Parker.