Thread 149099225

TMNT was to indie comics what FNAF was to indie games and Skibidi Toilet was to indie cartoons

>>149099225 (OP)
How?

>>149099225 (OP)
Nothing you said made sense on any level.

>>149099272
>>149099284
It created a saturation of copycats and low effort knock offs riding the high of the success of TMNT which flooded in the indie scene with junk

>>149099225 (OP)
Go back to hell, Aline Crumb, you're dead. There's no Ninja Turtles nintendo games in France or Hell.

>>149099354
>Well...It created copycats!

>>149099406
Saturation
The point is saturation
Mirage TMNT was seen as nonsensical brainless shlock that hit it big inspiring a whole new wave of shlock (most of it even being worse shlock)
I don't even dislike TMNT (I'm a fan even) but that's the truth when you bother to look up the reception it had back then and from creators at the time.

>>149099354
>>149099425
But that applies to anything that gets popular, is your only frame of reference FNAF?

>>149099442
Except FNAF was especially infamous for its saturation of copycats aiming to be the next big horror game for streamers with """"lore""""" and impacted its indie scene like TMNT did for its own.

>>149099225 (OP)
Elfquest and Albedo had already started the ball rolling, TMNT doesn't deserve all the blame.

>>149099425
All you are saying is saying TMNT got popular. No shit it's going to have copycats. Every single popular thing has that. You just wrapped this around, ironically enough, a current popular thing to not come off like a midwit dingus.

>>149099425
>>149099425
Again, is your only frame of reference FNAF

>>149099565
Copycats doesn't necessarily mean a saturation of the entire scene like what both TMNT and FNAF did
Mike Richardson literally made a comic venting his frustrations of the surplus of animal comics in the indie market because it was THAT bad

>>149099620
>Copycats doesn't necessarily mean a saturation of the entire scene like what both TMNT and FNAF did

You really have no idea of anything outside of TMNT and FNAF, huh

>>149099592
The comparison is appropriate because both of them were seen as low effort drivel compared to what the indie scene was also pumping out at the time only for them to become breakthrough hits creating a massive all-ages franchise in the end while creating waves upon waves of imitators
So yeah, FNAF IS the TMNT of indie games

>>149099354
>>149099425
You do know that this has happened before TMNT and FNAF, and every other thing you're seething about, right? It's not unique to any of those things and they didn't really do any specific besides being popular and successful, which caused imitators and opportunists to show up like they always do.

Also
>Mirage TMNT was seen as nonsensical brainless shlock
This is complete bullshit and you should feel bad for lying just to try and win an argument you got yourself into by being retarded.

>>149099653
It's the most appropriate fucking comparison
Pokemon had imitators (i.e. Robopon) but there wasn't a saturation of them flooding the market

>>149099672
>>149099700
Yes yes, we know your only frame of reference is just TMNT and FNAF, you don't need to over-explain how you're a midwit

>>149099686
>This is complete bullshit and you should feel bad for lying just to try and win an argument you got yourself into by being retarded.
Robert Crumb and his wife were vocally disdainful toward the Turtles

>>149099620
I hate how whiny the indie comic scene is in America. If you’re tired of superhero comics or animal hero comics or what ever, why make another comic parodying that? Just make the type of comics you want to make.

>>149099737
Give me a fucking example
What caused a similar saturation in an indie scene only to become a gargantuan franchise prior to TMNT?

>>149099758
>If you’re tired of superhero comics or animal hero comics or what ever, why make another comic parodying that?
Dan Vado called him out for that lol

You could literally say the same exact thing for Superman and Golden Age comics.
After all, he was infamous in that time for numerous copycat superpowered heroes, like Captain Marvel.

>>149099812
TMNT and FNAF are more comparable because of how they affected the INDIE market

>>149099836
Why do you think this only applies to indie markets?

Oh man, Godzilla saturated the kaiju movies!

>>149099862
I didn't say that only applies to the indie crowd
I said the comparison between TMNT and FNAF is apparent because of how they affected their respective medium's indie crowd

>>149099866
That movie is exactly that yes, one of a dozen of pretty bad attempts to cash in on Godzilla. Literally made for that exact reason, and that's not even the wildest example. This movie which is literally 2 kidnap victims in north korea being forced to make a movie that would rival Godzilla, only to escape the country shortly after production following a high speed chase and shootout.

>TMNT saturated the indie market!
>All the TMNT copycats came in while it was mainstream.

>>149099977
OP's talking about obscure TMNT comic knockoffs during the 80s that most people on this board don't even know about, like Adolescent Radioactive Blackbelt Hamsters or something

>>149100006
And again, this leads to believing OP is trying not to come off as a midwit over just finding out the usual ebb and flow of the popular thing.

>>149100130
Except the usual flow of influence doesn't apply here
TMNT and FNAF caused a saturation in a relatively small pool with knock offs coming out in rapid succession
Fucking Cuphead got popular but only had one explicit copycat trying to ride its high shortly after it released

>>149100006
Which is to say, shit that most people didn't read or ever hear about, making the whole "saturation" issue nonexistent.
>the indie comics scene was full of garbage because of TMNT!
the indie comics scene was always full of garbage. It's why no one remembers 90% of it.

>>149100167
>TMNT and FNAF
There you go again.

>>149100173
Except there was a noticeable saturation following and explicitly because of TMNT

>>149100192
That's what this thread is about

>>149099760
Why do you think this is exclusive to indie markets?

>>149100255
I don't
The point but the comparison aligns with TMNT and FNAF because of their affects specifically to their indie scenes makes them comparable
Success leads to imitation sure but it's when the imitation is so rapid and low quality it raises a parallel to be made

>>149100292
*The point is the comparisons

>>149100245
They're terrible examples. You could have used Balatro or Vampire Survivors, but you chose to be a retarded faggot.

>>149099225 (OP)
Kill your fucking self

>>149100500
>terrible examples
Mate
Read
>>149099354
As for FNAF, you'd have to be dense to not see the mountain of blatant imitators that followed in its wake
There are people who dislike FNAF for what it did to the horror genre for vidya

>>149099225 (OP)
False. It's one of the best comics of all time.

>>149100500
>>149100577
>>149100668
Mascot horror is to indie games today what "mutant animals" were to indie comics in the 80's

>>149100167
>Fucking Cuphead got popular but only had one explicit copycat trying to ride its high shortly after it released
Because doing what Cuphead did is fucking difficult to replicate, you moron. Half of Cuphead's appeal is its style. TMNT and FNAF, ironically enough, have a ton of visual variety in their "saturated copycats."

>>149100820
>"saturated copycats."
There's literally an article written by someone who was there explaining why the black & white explosion was a glut.

>>149100586
I've read your posts. Your points are dogshit and you're repeating yourself over and over like saying it for the 10th time will make it sound differently than it did the first time.

>>149100768
Not even remotely close.

>>149100768
this just doesn't even make sense

>>149100998
>>149100969
>Saturated genre of poor quality in indie comics
>Saturated genre of poor quality in indie games
Simple as and that's not even the only comparison between TMNT and FNAF
Again, they both skyrocketed as major multi-media franchises past their indie roots
They were both scoffed at when they were new but hit it huge in the mainstream demographic much to the annoyance of the former

>>149100860

Laffin' Gas
>Mutant Ninja Mutants. Cover by Andy Ice. Stories and art by Andy Ice, Cliff MacGillivray, Don Chin, Lee Marrs, Dave Garcia, and Chris Parsonavich. An anthology offering funny animal spoofs, with each issue a special theme. The lead issue features spoofs of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (which was itself a spoof). Featuring: Adolescent Radioactive Black Belt Hamsters: The Untold Story; Colossal Nuclear Bambino Samurai Snails; Adolescent Manaical Samurai Hares; Pre-Teen Dirty-Gene Kung-Fu Kangaroos; and Radioactive Wrestling Rodents.


>Naive Inter-Dimensional Commando Koalas
>1 issue.

>Gerbils
3 issues.

>Hamsters, the Gamera of the group
>9 issues.

>>149101065
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE

>>149101089
>Most of the ones that stuck around longer were ones that weren't copycats.

>X-Thevies only used the TMNT naming style to get people for something not TMNT.

>Keeps telling us this isn't the usual ebb and flow.
>Keeps showing the usual ebb and flow.

>>149099938

>following a high speed chase and shootout.

Really?

>>149101386
>>Most of the ones that stuck around longer were ones that weren't copycats.
The point wasn't longevity
The point is that they were there as part of the glut
Most of the TMNT knock-offs 1-3 issues at most but they were still part of the wider problem with indie comics at the time

>>149101447
>But...The popular thing caused copycats!
Yes, most of them died off quickly because they were just copycats. You are saying nothing new, you midwit.

>>149099938
Nah, you're thinking of Pulgasari. Yongary was the Japan/South Korea reconciliation attempt.

>>149099225 (OP)
I agree with the FNAF comment but Indie animation is fairly varied so eh.

>>149101525

Mmm...Akane...

>>149101525
It was still a saturated glut
People who were LITERALLY THERE when it was going on called it out for it

>>149099354
What are the Skibidi Toilet knockoffs?

>>149101562
And people complain about TMNT's cartoon copycats. I sat through multiple manias, with plenty of groans over each copycat, where the better ones stick around.
Again, you are not saying anything new. You midwit.

>>149101606
>>149101553
Honestly the Skibidi Toilet comparison came more from how TMNT and his influence could be considered "brain rot" of the indie comics scene at least on a surface level for TMNT like the flack Skibidi Toilet gets
FNAF is the stronger comparison admittedly

>>149101630
>TMNT didn't cause a saturation in the indie comics market
>Mike Richardson was wrong
>The Comics Buyers Guide was wrong
>Robert and Aline Crumb were wrong
>Despite all of them literally seeing it right before them

By the way
>AH:By now, there’ve been surely half a dozen derivatives of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles…
>EASTMAN: I think there’s something like 20. The first one was kind of flattering. I’m thinking in the sense that imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I mean, we began with Miller and Kirby and used a lot of Miller parodies. We started with our book the way Sim started with Cerebus. He was drawing like Barry Smith and used a lot of Barry Smith parodies, and it attracted a lot of attention. We gave a sincere thanks to Miller and Kirby at the time, the two strongest influences. So, anyway, the first parody [Adolescent Radioactive Black-Belt Hamsters] was flattering. Then came another one, and another, and then it started to get old real quick. It was great to see all these people getting together forming companies, and putting out their own comics because they really wanted to. But I was kind of disappointed at the lack of originality. If they’re gonna get together to do their own comic and they’re really sincere about it, that’s great, but they should really look for something original. It started making us feel that people were putting this out because they just wanted to make a quick buck. On the other hand, there’s a book called Gnatrat, and it’s one of the best parodies I’ve seen, well-written, well-drawn.
>LAIRD: This so-called black-and-white explosion is great because it allows a lot of other stuff, but through the open window comes stuff that’s embarrassing. I think the market can only take so may black-and-white books.

https://fan.kevineastmanstudios.com/the-turtle-boys/?srsltid=AfmBOopGi-tOkZZV-B8A5__-GvrYDH0At88624GpQsGBvPiVPvOsfAn7

EASTMAN AND LAIRD THEMSELVES ACKNOWLEDGED THE GLUT IN 1986

>>149101676

Man, Pete has a serious George Costanza look to him.

>>149101643
>Just throwing words in my mouth.
Midwit.

>>149101724
Dumbass

>>149101676
Nigger, people keep telling you that copycats are nothing new or special, but you keep insisting that this is some super fucking up thing that happened which is unique to TMNT and FNAF and that it was such a massive problem, despite most of them dying off in a couple issues. The glut you're blowing out of proportion barely lasted a few months.

>>149101740
Better that then a dumbass that think he's smart.

>>149101758
>which is unique to TMNT and FNAF
The comparison was how they affected their respective indie scenes
Gluts are worse for indie scenes because the pool is smaller in comparison to the mainstream which makes the glut more noticeable
Laird himself said
>I think the market can only take so may black-and-white books.

>>149101803
>But it did the popular thing...with the indies!
>The indies are still around.
How bout that...

>>149102051
Yes and cartoons are still around, doesn't erase the fact that the 70's were a terrible decade for it

>>149102051
The black and white market was crippled substantially for indies because the glut deterred stores away because of the connotation it had with piss poor TMNT knock offs from the black and white explosion.
You had outliers like The Walking Dead (if you can even call it indie) but it never truly recovered even when taking into consideration the state of direct market comics as a whole post-crash

>>149102126
>80s where a terrible decade for indie comics because we got a little too much talky fight animals.

>>149102051
Well if that article is anything to go by the black & white explosion paved way for speculator markets which helped lead to the crash which we've never bounced back from period

>>149102194
80s were great for indie comics if you were willing to trudge through all the fucking garbage caused by TMNT's influence and hope your store will even sell the good stuff

>>149102160
The indie market has always been fucked because they can't print or ship enough books even on their best days, retard. Stop pretending to be a comics historian while desperately trying to retcon history to fit your stupid little crusade.

>1988 -- The Year in Comics: Bud Plant Distribution, which in 1984 had purchased Pacific's wholesale accounts in Southern California, is up to seven warehouses with 80 employees. Plant sells the business to Diamond Comics Distributors, which has hired several Pacific mainstays. Ms Mystic is published on a semi-occasional basis by Neal Adams's own publishing company, Continuity. Sales on all comic books are dropping precipitously after a glut of self-published black-and-white comics. Retailers who overordered titles, hoping for another Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlelike sales boom, are stuck with piles of unsold comics and going bankrupt.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2004/aug/19/two-men-and-their-comic-books/

>U-Um, TMNT's popularity led to the black and white explosion, and that almost killed that era of the indie scene! That's why it is to comics what FNAF is to indie video games!
>Varying indie video games are clowning on AAA studios, while mascot horror is still fucking around.
Ya know, I don't think this argument holds up at all.

>>149102410
You argued there wasn't a saturation to begin with
Articles and eyewitness accounts were provided to showcase there was a saturation period, one that was outright detrimental to comics
FNAF didn't kill indie games but it sure as hell paved way for an endless sea of half baked imitators that crowded discourse born out of the peak of FNAF's popularity similar to all the Turtles wannabes that crowded indie comics

>>149102398
>Retailers who overordered titles, hoping for another Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle-like sales boom,
That sounds like a their problem.

>>149102410
See >>149101037
That's the parallel between Scott Cawthon and Eastman & Laird's success
They struck gold with a cheaply made self-published product, caused a wave of imitators much to the frustration of detractors, and they laughed all the to the bank with their multi million dollar franchise

>>149102494
Read the thread again, dipshit.

>>149102541
I did
The TMNT imitators were more than usual, typical copycat shit following one's success

>>149102494
>argued there wasn't a saturation to begin with
You keep putting words in my mouth. You are fighting an argument I'm not making.

I said popular copycats happen; there's nothing new to that. Daiei still died despite having Gamera.

>endless sea of half-baked imitators
It became it's own genre, you dumbfuck. It's like still calling FPSs Doom clones. Guess what, buddy? We had Mario clones when Mario came out. Guess what again, they ain't called Mario clones now.

This holds nothing.

>>149102585
Not that. The part where every is aware of the numerous copycats and wasn't disagreeing that it happened. The saturation you're so obsessed with was trend-chasing idiots getting burned when they couldn't hack it by doing surface level imitations, and then quitting 3 issues later.

>>149102645
>It became it's own genre, you dumbfuck
Whenever people talk about mascot horror they talk about how too many half-baked ones were there and how it was ruining everything
Hell, even FNAF got accused of this eventually because Scott kept rushing them out

>>149102737
Again, people were calling FPSs Doom clones and ripoffs for a good while. This is nothing new.

>>149102811
Yes I know
I know how a saturation of mediocrity can actually kill/critically damage a genre in the long term (mascot platformers though there was more to it).
I know Wolfenstein and Doom were still technically indie games (by today's definition) when they came out.
But the parallels between TMNT and FNAF are more apparent given the stigma both got when they when came out, the nature of how rushed and shoddily made the works that followed them came to be, and how the franchises became multi-million, multi-media all-age franchises

>>149099741
Crumb hated a lot of shit, who cares?

>>149102967
It's nothing new, yes.

>>149102967
>But the parallels between TMNT and FNAF are more apparent
They aren't.