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I swear to god this fat tub of lard for a teacher was smoking meth when he said that “Superman is Jesus”, and I am saying this verbatim and then pulled a English trope out of his ass to explain it when other retards debated with him. He full on got up, for once without his mobility scooter, and walked over to us to explain the reason why Superman was Jesus. I don’t even fucking care that much about people’s religion but come the fuck on SUPERMAN?
>>149149310 (OP)>Superman is a made-up children's character designed to get kids to behaveOh shit, I guess he really is Jesus.
You sound like a dumbass, but if you're in public education that can hardly be helped, so I'll try to explain symbolism to you.
The way your teachers explained symbolism to you is wrong. They did the whole "the curtains are blue to symbolize sadness" thing, which most down to earth people know is silly. They said that authorial intent is the driving force behind symbolism and that great works of fiction are great because the author mulled over every detail and assigned deliberate, conscious metaphor into everything that you need an official Media Literacy™, ivory tower decoder to understand. Basically, they taught you what propaganda was, called it symbolism, and said you had to interpret everything through a lens of approved propaganda formulas to get the most out of art and literature.
But symbolism is not a conscious metaphor sprinkled in by the author. Symbolism is metaphor that is embedded into the elements of the work whether the author intents it or not. There are symbols that vary across cultural context, and there are symbols that are universal, but the meaning is embedded into the objects themselves.
Ex: Closing a door. You could say that closing a door is symbolic of rejecting what is outside of the door. You could also say it's symbolic of protecting what's inside with you. Both of these are correct. A door is symbolic of separation, because that's literally what it is. A desert is symbolic of a great, prolonged hardship because that's literally what it is. A dragon is symbolic of an insurmountable challenge, because that's literally what it is. The meaning is embedded into the material whether the author wants it there or not. You don't escape it.
>>149151655When somebody says "Superman is Jesus," what they mean (if they know what they're talking about) is that Superman is our culture's idea of the perfected hero. The perfected hero in our culture is the Christ story. He came from above, rejected the opportunity to abuse his strength, went about performing selfless miracles, led by example, stood up for us even in the face of death, and then returned to heaven, leaving behind the Holy Spirit to inspire and guide others. That's the image of Christ, the essence of which is shared in the basic model for Superman. Whether or not you intend it, using this model gets you a Christ figure. If you do it on purpose (Zack Snyder), you'll probably wind up imitating the superficial elements of the Christ image, which misses the point of symbolism. The essence is the the meaning of the material, not in the superficial elements. Making the curtains blue just makes blue curtains.
>>149149310 (OP)Superman is a Jewish power fantasy, but Snyder was bashing us over the head with the Jesus allegories in his movies with as much subtlety as a brick to the face
>>149149310 (OP)Superman is a pretty common example of a pop culture figure who gets Christ metaphors applied to him. It’s pretty obvious when it is. Whether or not it’s appropriate is a different story, and there’s other religious/mythical figures who may be more appropriate, but just going off popular culture and the most known by normies media, it’s a valid metaphor.
How would you feel if you didn’t eat breakfast ?
Naughty
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So, if Superman is Jesus, does that make Lex Luthor Lucifer? (phonetically it fits)
Just playing with yer mind, people. Unbunch your skivvies, have a Snickers, pop a cold Dew and have a groovus day.
>>149151241I guess there's still a subset of euphorics that don't believe there was a historical crucified dude from judea; funny how atheism really is a religion, it has diverging camps.
>>149149310 (OP)Superman is clearly Moses, as he was created by two Jewish guys. However, the Reeves' movie really opened the gates for the Jesus imagery in the comics thag followed the Crisis and decades later Snyder outright used it in Man of Steel.
>>149149310 (OP)>My teacher saidI don't think you're old enough to be posting here.
>>149151655If you think all symbolism is accidental then you're even more retarded then the anon you're criticizing. People write because they want to say something. The ones who don't only produce shallow crap like most capeshit. Yes, shit does get overanalyzed often. Works of art are open for interpretation. But if you think Tolstoy or Orwell had no ideas they were trying to communicate to the reader then you're actually braindead.
Superman is a solar diety powered by the sun, died and came back, pure morally, sent from another world, raised humble by midwestern farmers. He is a little bit jesus too.
>>149154472This.
Superman was created by two Jews.
He literally has the same origin as Moses.
He doesn't die for you, he kicks other people's asses for you.
>>149149310 (OP)But, Superman is a Moses allegory and not a Jesus Allegory. Idiots in the modern era keep ascribing a Jesus allegory to him. Seriously fuck your teacher and show him my post.
Teaching is a thankless job but fuck him. Is he only familiar with the character by way of Snyder? This tepidly shallow motherfucker with only a surface level understanding thinking saying that can help get the kids invested. I'll steal the wheels off his mobility scooter and shove him into a supply closet because shitty takes like that deserve to be bullied. If he's going to play at being a nerd then he's gonna be fucking bullied like one in the way of the old school.
Now Aslan, there's a Jesus allegory who is also a Lion.
>>149154746>Idiots in the modern era keep ascribing a Jesus allegory to him. Seriously fuck your teacher and show him my post.>Teaching is a thankless job but fuck him. Is he only familiar with the character by way of Snyder?Yes, most people are more familiar with adaptations than comics these days. If you're trying to be a cool hip teacher relating pop culture to religion/myth, you're better off using the most known examples. Snyder wasn't the first to liken him to Jesus, either. Smallville's whole promos even played with the crucifixion imagery.
The Moses metaphor only goes so far, too.
>>149149310 (OP)A wise old man in the sky sends his only son to Earth to help mankind and perform miraculous deeds
Jesus, Superman and Hercules could all sit around smoking cigars comparing stories
>>149154515>accidentalNo. I'm not saying it's accidental. I'm saying it's natural. Most of the symbolism in great works comes from what's naturally embedded in the elements, whether the author intends it or not. In Animal Farm, every detail is a very deliberate, hamfisted metaphor. It's a propaganda piece. Why is Moby Dick white? Because the author heard a story about a white whale and that detail resonated deeply. If it didn't, it would've been changed or omitted entirely. You can quibble over specifics of what it means, but there was a naturally occurring symbolism in the white whale that makes in numinous. You want to believe that great works are the product of intense thought, but it's almost entirely intuition, rationalized retroactively by intellect. I think you would be surprised how many great stories were just made up of things the creator thought was interesting. Intellect gets emphasized because it appeals to our egos to think we can consciously generate all the mojo that makes for a great story, but intellect usually just fixes what isn't broken.
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It’s not exactly a novel idea.
>>149149310 (OP)The story of Jesus is obviously based on Popeye
>another atheist melty thread
>>149153136>as he was created by two Jewish guysthis explains a lot honestly.
>>149149310 (OP)Jesus doesn't job. Supercuck is probably analogues to shit tier greek god that gets owned by mortals like batchad
>>149156090Get ready when you find out that Kirby, Lee, Kane, Finger, and so one weren't their birth names.
>>149156442Damn it, someone already mentioned it. I should read entire threads before replying.
>>149154564Aspects like Superman's boyscout morality and his literal resurrection are all post-Crisis additions to his character, all in line with later writers applying Jesus imagery on him, in contrast with his original concept being exclusively Moses inspired.
>>149153103I’m not sure competing theories makes something a religion but I do find some of the stuff that has been written about Christ being an entirely Roman invention to essentially psy-op a state religion into the Roman Empire really interesting. Probably false, but it is an interesting thought.
>>149155267Just cause he got the color of the whale from a story he heard doesn't mean he didn't put any thought into what the whale represents in the story. That's retarded. Ahab's self-destructive obsession, the power malicious intellect Melville ascribes to the whale. These are all things clearly defined within the text. I don't disagree that inspiration plays a tole in what makes a good story, but to say that there's no intellect involved is just wrong. Melville put a lot of thought into writing Moby Dick and it shows.
>>149156637And it's been almost 50 years since Crisis, with plenty of media that leans to the Jesus analog aspect. It's perfectly reasonable to talk about that angle when it's been used multiple times in the most well known modern Superman media most people would interact with.
Siegel and Shuster's Moses inspiration was fairly basic and hardly prominent compared to how much the Jesus metaphor has been laid in thick. For Siegel and Shuster it was more an afterthought and people put a lot more stake into it because of their Jewish heritage.