Thread 149154647

Excuse me what the fuck is this Shuma-Gorath erasure? This line is meant to be from Marvel vs Capcom, why the fuck is it Gargantos and not Shuma? Doctor Strange 2 had this problem too.

They own the design and character but they don't own the name
It's owned by the Robert E. Howard estate and originates as a throwaway line in one of his books and Marvel actually used the name for a character back when they had the license to Howard's works
Shuma-Gorath can show up in comics still but can't be called by name

There's a weird rights situation about the character isn't there?

Marvel lost the rights to the name Shuma-Gorath.

>>149154647 (OP)
finally Gargantos's time to shine

>>149154647 (OP)
The name 'Shuma-Gorath' came from an old Conan story. This wasn't an issue in the 70s when Marvel had the Conan license, and Marvel created everything except the name, but with the Conan license again held elsewhere, and Disney or Marvel not appearing to have made an agreement with the Howard estate, they've just renamed Shuma-Gorath so they can keep using him without having to deal with them at all, and to make it worse, they've given him the name of some octopoid monster from an old Namor comic.

Also just letting you know, the short story that the name comes from was published in 1967 years after Howard's death so the name will enter public domain in.......2062 unless I'm mistaken

>>149154729
He owned his work so I think the legal proviso that counts is the 75 years post death, not the work for hire 95 years post print

>>149154722
>from an old Conan story.
Kull story

>>149154843
Copyright law is fuckin stupid man.

>>149155389
Would you rather wait for Shuma-Gorath to be called his actual name in 2028 or in 2062?

>>149154647 (OP)
They could at least call it Shamu Gorganth

>>149154647 (OP)
>marvel vs capcom pandering
>while also ditching capcom for a new mahvel fighting game
lol lmao

>>149154647 (OP)
Brand synergy, plus Disney's too lazy to negotiate with the Brown estate for the Shuma Gorath name.

>>149155585
Different divisions Anon

>>149155643
i know but it is funny

>>149154669
And that's why everything needs to be owned by a single corporation.

Gargantos will always be the lesser SG until Disney gets off its ass and makes a proper agreement for the SG name.

>>149155585
>new game makes old game not exist
anon, you can like things, its okay.

>>149155691
Or just you know, wait it out
Wait a second if Kull of Atlantis is becoming public domain in 2025 than why couldn't they wait it out just a few more months if that other Anon was right about this rule falling in line outside of the work for hire literature?

There is no Robert E Howard estate, his dad sold the rights and it now belongs to some Swedes.

>>149155745
Tomato, Tomato
It's still entering public domain at some point right?

>>149155745
It belongs to Tencent since that's the company that owns Funcom, which runs Heroic Signatures,w hich licenses out Conan, Kane, Kull etc. to be used in comics and books

>>149155733
Not sure if that'll happen, as Conan the Barbarian run from Titan Comics has introduced their own Shuma Gorath, who's also a green tentacled monster with an eye.

>>149155708
i just find companys falling out but still wanting that crossover funny

>>149155787
Anon I don't think that's how beating the public domain works

He wasn't changed in the recent MvC compilation right?

Be all that as it may, Gargantos is a stupid ass name.

Get your highly paid writers to come up with something better, even if you just dump out a handful of Scrabble tiles.

Fuck, my captcha is JXRHX. Throw in a couple vowels and done.

>>149156517
Yeah I wanna say re-releases are unaffected but didn't Bamco have to reach out to Todd to keep Spawn in Soul Calibur 2's re-release?
It's kind of confusing

>>149155551
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Cthuma-Gurath_(Earth-5311)

There is this random deity statue in a x men comic that is speculated to be shuma
The name would be good to call him

>>149156769
They're renaming him Gargantos in the comics now, if it hasn't happened before, they're doing it in the current Vision & Scarlet Witch mini, where advance solicitations have revealed he's the power behind Grim Reaper's latest scheme.

It was presumably meant to be a surprise twist, as the first two issues namedropped Lloigoroth, a different Marvel-created Lovecraftian entity that Grim Reaper has worked for before.

>>149156875
Honestly I hope they just don't use any name in that issue and just "wait it out"

>>149154647 (OP)
I prefer (the ancient Japanese rape demon of folklore) Kuromaru!
Just a much more fun character all around.

>>149156993
I think the solicits have already used the name Gargantos, so I doubt we'll be that lucky. They probably should have just used Lloigoroth for real instead.

>>149155389
It is, yes, even more with the wrinkle that the "95 years after creation of work for hire" bit is US only

That said I'm no lawyer so no idea how it's working in regards to Howard's stories. I know they're already considered public domain in Europe but trademarked in the US, which now I think about it feels a bit weird. 75 years after death was 2011, so shouldn't his works be public domain in the US too?

>>149154647 (OP)
>Shuma-Gorath

>>149157030
Looks like a rip-off of Backbeard

I'm pretty sure Marvel were calling him Shuma Gorath fairly recently. At least in the Conan/Dr Strange team up where they used Shuma to kill Kulan Gath.

>>149157530
You might notice that the story you're talking about was when Marvel had the license for Conan and a number of Howard's other characters, and they don't anymore.

>>149157530
>Conan
Think a little.

>>149156769
>The name would be good to call him
Agreed
>>149156875
>the first two issues namedropped Lloigoroth, a different Marvel-created Lovecraftian entity that Grim Reaper has worked for before.
>They're renaming him Gargantos in the comics now
Damn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDsdSUu27jo

Establishing an Eldritch name and then veering to the name for a generic monster is head to brick wall thinking. That other anon is right, they should just delay by making Shuma nameless, handwave it that naming him in this instance would give him presence and power or something.

Can't wait for this thing.

>>149155685
He is in the public domain anyway. It wouldn't be a problem if Howard's faggot descendants would get jobs instead of profiting off the work of a distant uncle who died 90 years ago. Or just be hanged.

>>149154843
Some of Howard's stories will be copyrighted up to 2080+, but only in America.

>>149158845

Funny thing, some recent comics imply they're gonna use him soon.

>>149154647 (OP)
>>149154669
>>149154722
Copyright bullshit. Why not give him a new name instead of recycling the one from another character? Eldritch horrors can have many names.

>>149155733
In the United States, the public domain is more gradual, because of it, Doyle's state did those shenanigans.

>>149158880
Posthumous work has different rules, since he died in '36 all his stories published after that are already public domain. Including the story where Shuma Gorath first appears

>>149158845
Howard's didn't have descendents, when he died, the rights went to his father, when his father died, the rights went to the father's caretakers

>>149157584
Marvel didn't have the Conan license for a long-ass time, certainly not when Shuma was in the '90s games or MvC3. It wasn't an issue when other publishers were publishing Conan and Kull comics, not Marvel. It's only since 2021/2022 when Funcom (Tencent subsidiary) got the Conan rights that it became an issue. It's entirely because the chinkswedes are being greedy faggots thinking they're going to have their own cool universe that'll make lots of money (it won't, I'm sure).

>>149159071

Well, theres the Titan Comics. They've been pretty good so far.

>>149158890
This, even "SG" sounds better than that.

>>149158918
It doesn't matter when the rightsholders are likely going to be bitches and try to come after anyone who uses shit. The Zorro "rightsholders" for example don't actually own shit because Zorro is public domain but will still sue anyone doing Zorro stuff even after having already lost cases. Marvel/Disney likely doesn't think it's worth the time, effort and money to deal with a court case over the name of an obscure, barely used character and that it was just easier to slap another name onto him and be done with it.

So one side being greedy copyright trolls and the other side being lazy means everyone has to pretend that "Gargantos" has always been Shuma-Gorath.

>>149155708
>you will never get more good thing
>be happy about it you crybaby

Yeah from what I'm reading the situation seems to be the stories SHOULD be in the public domain, but the current rightsholders in the US are outright copyright trolling and so even cases where use should be allowed don't go through because they get sued and the party getting sued doesn't want to have to deal with it

>>149159160
It is complicated, the rights of a lot of the stories were not renewed, but the rights of the magazines were.

And there was a lot of copyright trolling to avoid the original Howard's stories to be used, in favor of the edited ones.

>>149158956
>>149159118
Hanging it is then.

>>149154647 (OP)
Conan the Barbarian's state owns the name "Shuma Gorath", why Marvel/Disney just doesn't pay to use the name is beyond me, these fuckers clearly have the money
Capcom has less money than Disney and yet they had no problem paying rights to Marvel,Disney,Sony, the Conan state and some random Japanese comedian to get all the original cast and names in the Marvel vs Capcom collection they released last year

>>149160539
Cute cat

>>149158845
>>149158956
The Howard estate rights are tragic because they just got bounced around random people until they decided to sell
>Following Robert E. Howard's death, the courts granted his estate to his father, who continued to work with Howard's literary agent Otis Adelbert Kline. Dr. Isaac Howard passed the rights on to his friend Dr. Pere Kuykendall, who passed them to his wife, Alla Ray Kuykendall, and daughter, Alla Ray Morris. Morris left the rights to the widow of her cousin, Zora Mae Bryant, who gave control to her children, Jack Baum and Terry Baum Rogers.The Baums eventually sold their rights to the Swedish (now US) company Paradox Entertainment.
Paradox was only established in 1999, so all this time Marvel Conan and the 80's movie was coming out, the rights were held by some family that only had the most tenuous connection to REH

>>149160539
>>149160939

>>149154669
FPBP

>>149158845
Yes, that's all the cattle are good for: slaving away for their masters or dying for their masters.

>>149157030
>fun

>>149160539
>>149161237
Based

>>149154647 (OP)
I did actually pre-order this recently.

>>149154647 (OP)
I hate engagement bait. Extremely googleable answer that you probably already knew. But I read Strange Tales 1987 recently and it was really good.

>>149163832
>engagement bait
kill yourself.

>>149163877
You first. Just make a regular Shuma thread next time faggot.

I just mentally correct Gigantos to Shuma-Gortah when I read it, it's that easy.

>>149154647 (OP)
He should be in Rivals.

>>149163787

Me too, can’t wait.