Do you really like the idea? I dont like it because I feel HB will parasite HH and will make it even worse (like if 8 episodes of 23 minutes per season, a rushed plot and 0 character development werent enough).
No wonder if suddenly, in a moment of need, Blitz and Stolas appear and save the day, or Blitz and Angel Dust are ex or some bullshit, because Brandon Rogers is an annoying attention whore, Vivzie an useless slob and both are egocentric shits who only live of fanservice.

Don't really know how they'd work as a crossover thematically, because the entire point of Hazbin Hotel is supposed to be that the denizens of Hell aren't as irredeemable as Heaven makes them out to be, while Helluva Boss is a dark comedy about a bunch of fuck-up hitmen murdering people on the behalf of shitty vengeful sinners (or at least it was until season 2 did whatever it was trying to do).

>>149160736
Sorry anon, but they changed the plots long ago. Helluva Boss is about feelings and relations between the characters, and Hazbin Hotel is about hell vs heaven, cause the creators and the writters know shit about their own series.

>>149160807
But even with the awkwardly retconned character flaws for the sake of forced romance, Helluva Boss never acts like they're going to stop the protagonist's career of murdering people. If anything, a crossover should amount to the two casts trying to kill each other because their two businesses are completely at odds.

>>149160651 (OP)
>tfw both shows are wasted potential
>tfw fanfics completely surpass both shows in everything
>tfw it had become the norm that fan content is better than the official content

>>149160936
Me too, anon. Me too.

>>149160651 (OP)
I cant say i dont see something like this happening. I have nothing agaisnt HB, but Blitzo is so fucking invasive and his fans full retards

>>149160651 (OP)
I'm really not looking forward to Brandon Rogers humor in Hazbin

>>149160651 (OP)
I could possibly enjoy a crossover if they have Charlie tearing into IMP once she finds out what they do. Her somehow being okay with other hellborn going into the living world and murdering humans would make it terrible.

>>149160651 (OP)
If there's a crossover and there's Good Writing ha ha ha!.....alright then if there's good writing Charlie would HATE Blitzo.

Blitzo's company makes Charlie's job more difficult since Blitzo killing living humans means he's increasing the number of sinners. Charlie would detest that. We already saw Charlie overwhelmed when she only had two guests at her hotel but Blitzo's actions only means the workload would be increased exponentially. And Charlie would loathe the shitty faggot. And another thing is Charlie has a natural empathy for mankind so I don't think she would like the idea of Blitzo killing humans in general be they good or evil.

Then again Charlie does not stop Asmodeous from sending his succubus sluts to corrupt mortals or the Fester Demons from terrorizing humanity. Charlie if written correctly based on her personality would be the ultimate villain for the Helluva Boss universe since she would oppose harming mankind.

>>149161564
I just don't get how IMP is STILL in business even after the whole trial.

>>149160736
Right now the story has changed for Helluva Boss. Now its lower rank demons are fighting systematic oppression from the royal demons.

>>149161496
Do you think is Brandon who puts all the fuck, shit and boring sexual jokes every 15 seconds in HB or Vivziepop?

One of the positive things i find in Hazbin Hotel is that its a bit more controlled over the insults per minute and has better timing on the jokes.

>>149161636
Exactly the writing is awful.

Satan went into express detail that Blitzo is going to Earth without permission breaking Demon Law. And yet despite being proven to be indeed breaking Demon Law Blitzo's company is still operational. This is bad writing incarnate because the whole Sinsman's job would have been blocked by Satan's trial proving Blitzo is breaking the law.

And even if Blitzo has an Asmodeous Crystal that doesn't protect Blitzo at all, the point is simply that a lowly imp is NOT supposed to go to Earth independently. Its simply not allowed. The only low rank demons who can go to Earth are examples like Tex who are working for higher ranks like succubus demons who represent Asmodeous.

>>149161690
Not to mention with the Succubi travelling to earth they are just seducing people, they aren't straight up murdering humans like Blitzo is doing.
Hell, Blitzo could be risking full on war with Heaven with his dumb company, cause I can't imagine the Angels would be okay with this shit.

>>149161564
>>149161628

They will never make Charlie knows about I.M.P.; and if they do, Stolas will save his ass, or they will make Charlie dumber than a brick and/or say "uuh, ok Blitz, i name you royal murderer-shepherd of souls. You can go and kill more humans so when they come here, we can redeem them, urp urp durp"

>>149161667
not getting my hopes up but I think they are evolving...growing with each show.

>see 2 gay men with a family on Christmas
>suddenly too touched and emotional to go through with the assassination

THAT'S where they draw the line? Not with any of the children and other innocent people and whoever they all murdered without a thought before? Get out of here. They're demons who live in hell who've presumably killed a good number of humans by now so why get all sentimental now? Vivzie did herself a disservice by making the setting in Hell because it just doesn't feel like "hell" at all, it would've been better off just coming up with some other world of her own.

>>149161745
That's another one because we saw the Cherubs hating the idea of Blitzo's company. The only reason the bosses of the Cherubs don't go after Blitzo is......because the writing is trash. Always pissed me off that the bosses of the Cherubs bore witness to Blitzo's activities among the living humans and they prefer castigating the Cherubs over planning a way to combat the demons. Heaven in Helluva Boss are presented as largely enablers of all demon kind.

>>149160736
If you think about it, if the angels found out about the IMP killing mortals all willy nilly (even worse by the fact sinners hired them) it would put a huge blow on Charlie's support.

Lucifer would execute each Blitzo and his crew alongside Stolas not for killing humans, but putting more pressure on his world and giving Angels more reason to outright kill sinners

>>149161770
Charlie already IS an idiot. Blitzo does not hide his activities for crying out loud Blitzo spends a large sum of his profit on advertising his Law Breaking Company.

So its not just Charlie but ALL of Hell that should know about IMP. I'm even surprised Satan needed a kangaroo court with Andrealphus presenting fake charges when Blitzo does a horrible job of protecting himself and his business. Blitzo advertises his company so well to quote Ember "Blitzie I saw your giant billboard!"

>>149161847
Which also endangers Charlie and Lucifer hates anyone who starts targeting Charlie. The only thing protecting Blitzo from Lucifer's anger is copyright and bad writing mixed together.

>>149160651 (OP)
No i don't want it to be one of the 8 eps

>>149161806
I agree they really should have taken a note from other series like Beetlejuice or Darkstalkers where each of these has a Demon World but its NOT expressively the afterlife of Hell.

And about the whole Blitzo refusing to kill the homos, its only because those specific homos are Blitzo and Stolas in human form specifically. If they were were a little bit different in presentation Blitzo would have no issues killing them.

And I think people are starting to mostly turn on Helluva Boss. And same to Hazbin Hotel. I doubt having decent viewership means anything if everything the audience discusses is how horrible the writing is. And I still remember how in the threads with Viv announcing Season 3 and 4 of Helluva Boss are going to be on Amazon's stream service many people said they will not pay money to see such a badly written show, they will simply pirate. And I suspect Hazbin Hotel is the same, bunch of pirates for that series instead of paying customers.

Basically Viv has become a hated figure probably more hated than the bitch who made Owl House.

I think I.M.P. only went to trial jsut for use the grimoire, not for go into the living world and kill people (succubus, Barbie Wire and Ronaldo are examples of other demons in Earth killing people and doing shit).
I think Hell and Heaven dont give a shit if the other sends angels and demons to Earth to save/corrupt souls. Im sure Charlie is agaisnt all this, but nobody cares and obey her.

>>149160651 (OP)
I like it a lot and think it's a natural thing to happen since both shows exist in the same universe, complement each other thematically etc.


The world/lore either show can access is bigger now, we get to see what character dynamics between the two will look like in canon. To me its jarring to have things like the goetia or sins but Charlie is never interacting with them in-show. It'll be really cool to see her talking to Stolas, or to see the Hazbin crew interacting with imps.

I think it's going to be difficult for them to fuck up these crossovers.

Idea green here we go

>Lucifer and Charlie didn't know how to handle recent uptick of sinners arriving
>Sure it wasn't like WW1 or WW2 amount, most of the time, the souls were half in heaven and half in hell.
>But there's recent reports of humans dying of unnatural causes usually at the hands of a third party, not of their own
>This causes an error on the world's invisible arbiter and sending all the innocent and not-so-innocent souls to hell all the time
>Lucifer knows this could impact the already bad relationship with heaven and his father's angels
>So he went undercover as an imp
>A tall imp, since he finds it hard to walk with legs so short
>He walked among all of his circles, scouring and talking with the locals
>Until he arrived at the place that kept popping up in Pride networks of sinners
>IMP
>He looked up at the billboard, showing an imp holding a gun and shooting a human on the head
>Lucifer shook his head and knocked on the door
>"Sorry we're not open yet. Come back later."
>A feminine voice said behind the door
>Lucifer knocked on the door again, insistently
>"Dude we're not open! Come back in another hour asshole."
>Well she could have a few manners at least
"Apologies, but I need to speak with your boss. It is a matter of urgency."
>"And why should I care?"
>Lucifer took a deep breath. He knows these are just working class demons but time is of the essence
"Because it relates to the matter of Hell itself."
>He swore he could feel a roll of the eyes behind the wooden door
>Eventually a hellhound answered the door, looking around her early 20s
>She looked at the disguised ruler up and down unimpressed
>"Sorry big guy, but we only cater to sinners only."
"Oh that won't be a concern. This is private business between me and your boss."
>He moved past her forcefully and took a look around
>"Hey you dick, don't think you can just push me away and get away with it-"

>charlie meets god
>immediately overwhelmed by gods love due to being born in hell thus never having felt it

>>149161953
>I think it's going to be difficult for them to fuck up these crossovers.

They will fuck them very easily. The lore of the hellaverse is full of holes and shit that is molded so that the fanfics can become episodes (like in Seeing Stars, or the cannibals changing from hellborn to sinners, or the lack of humans sinners and now are all furries or things, or Vaggie not knowing abouth celestial weapons can hurt7kill angels, etc)

>>149161806
Because that one hit too close to home.

>>149161954
>A staff with an apple on its end hits her snout and she magnetizes on the floor with red pulsing magic
>She snarls and tries to move, but her limbs are glued to the ground.
>The door on the other side of the room opens and out comes the same imp on the billboard alongside his two shorter cohorts
>"Alright what's with all that racket over there-"
>Blitzo sees his daughter on the ground and the tall imp looking at him with a calm smile
>"Loona! What the fuck did you do to her you sick fuck!"
>The three busts out their weapons and aimed at Lucifer
>"Give me one good reason why I shouldn't blow your brains out and feed it to my daughter!"
>A haunting laughter echoes the room as red light floods the area
>"U-Uh Blitzo, I have a bad idea about this."
>Moxxie murmured
"Ah! So you must be Blitzo, owner of this establishment yes?"
>Lucifer walked in long strides as he approached the imp, looking down at him
>"Pfft yeah bub. Now tell me who the fuck are you before I kill you."
>The tall imp could only smile as red and green flames envelop him
>His signature white and pink suit enveloped his lithe frame as his smile did not reach his glaring eyes
>All four stopped breathing out of fear in instinct as they felt a familiar presence that resonated all throughout hell
"My name is Lucifer Morningstar! Ruler of Hell!"
>He flourished his hand and did an exaggerated bow
"And you Mr. Blitzo, I want to a have a nice chat with you about your... business"

>>149161806
>>149161950
>>149162020

We only kill no gays because we are gays.

>>149162042
Do you really not see the parallel to Blitzø and Stolas' situation, or are you deliberately ignoring it because you're one of those people who thinks that pretending to be retarded is the funniest thing in the world?

>>149160651 (OP)
Knowing that HB will be in HH, i lost a little the desire of what HH after season 2.

>>149162489
Same

>>149161951
That sounds... understandable and makes sense if i remember good.

>>149160651 (OP)
At first i was like "yeeaaahh", but then i thought the same thing as you. Hazbin Hotel will suffer all Helluva Boss's bullshit and retardation and the spotlights will be one Blitz and Stolas because people think they are the only main characters in all Hellaverse.

They're both shit. The only reason to watch is the spectacular train wreck Vivzie will undoubtedly write while she watches her fanbase turn disillusioned.

Im just waiting for the show to drop where the fanbase goes sorched earth and we get those dumbass video essays "How Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss fell from grace." or "How Helluva and Hazbin betrayed their fans."

It's coming.

>>149164353
You're a very sad and bitter person.

To be fair though, I do completely expect that to happen. Vivzie clearly has a weakness when she couldn't take the whole "Digital Circus written by Vivziepop" joke from her own fandom

>>149164384
The fandom cant take jokes nor critisism neither

>>149161636
They weren’t on trial for killing humans on earth

>>149161636
IMP was on trial for "stealing" Stolas' grimoire. Once Stolas made it all his own fault, they were perfectly in the clear to continue, thia timr with their fully legit asmodeus portal

>>149164353
This is sad as fuck, you're miserable anon

>>149160936
I hear this sentiment thrown about a lot in other medias, and as someone who writes fanfic (and is currently doing so), I never try and think that I’m better than the show’s original creators, no matter how much I may disagree with their writing choices.

>>149161667
Brandon can actually be funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGSo4RJiTus

>>149160736
That’s how it would work. Their protagonists life philosophies are at odds and they share a common enemy. A crossover between them would just develop a theme and perspective of its own like any other story she sets in that universe.

>>149166120
People here will try to bite my dick off for this but helluva can be funny too, they swear too much and sometimes they make me want to tear my skin off but there's no episode that hasn't gotten at least a smirk out of me

>>149162006
It's fairly easy to sum up the problem with the Hellaverse's approach when you make one simple observation.
It's not as good as Little Demon's approach to this stuff.
That show was really mediocre, wasted tons of budget on celebrity guests, and was just Danny Devito's father-daughter vanity project, but if there was anything good from that show. It was that you could tell the writers and art team were having fun with the worldbuilding and the aesthetic.
It all felt like this otherworldly Heaven and Hell. Because actual Satanism places extreme emphasis on freedom and indivisualism, the Devil was portrayed as this libertarian who justified his Faustian deals and antics with a bunch of social contract and game theory. And the war between heaven and hell becomes this "religious authoritarianism vs anarcho-capitalism" thing.
You get a whole fucking village of previous failed anti-christ attempts, the angels are a "biblically accurate angels" joke but you see passion in the design and an effort to them still look like these beings who would have inspired hope and awe in a developing society.
You see how it all interacts with Earth and you have these crazy occult otherworldly antics almost every fucking episode. You see animals being sacrificed for spells and sigils being carved into people with a shit ton of eldritch and supernatural horror imagery.
I think that's the real issue with the Hellaverse and especially that last bit. The aesthetic is "gothic" but it's sure as fuck never feels "occult".

>>149166351
All that text just to give a wrong opinion, fuck off and never write anything ever again anon

>>149166444
You can't refute him thoughever

>>149166193
nah, i'm gonna just say it, the episodes are usually downright hilarious.
they can't write a consistent characterization for shit and facts get conveniently forgot whenever drama needs to arise or settle down, but the jokes and visual gags are all good to great

>>149166533
What there is to refute?
>Hazbin doesn't have the exact same ideas as this other show with a completely different studio behind and with completely different ideas
>Also, it doesn't give me this completely subjective vibe I just think the other show has
?????

What are her tax policies?

>>149161806
It's accidentally brilliant. Even sympathetic demons can't care about anyone that isn't like them.

>>149166672
That dude outlined it pretty clearly, if you don't understand then repeating it isn't going to help you and if you're pretending to be retarded then that's a you problem my dude

>>149161806
You gotta understand that to them gays are their golden calf. It'd be like killing unicorns.

>>149160651 (OP)
This post seems like it has a big axe to grind. This feels personal.

I don't like Helluva Boss because it is way too gay. Now it's also trannied. 'm surprised the LGBTQ+ community isn't up in arms about an IP implying homosexuality is inherently evil and that gay people all go to hell or something.

>>149167502
They have cognitive dissonance and decided "hell is le good actually??" It's the same people that retweet shit like "all the scientists go to hell so it probably has A/C and rockets!"

>>149167502
> implying homosexuality is inherently evil and that gay people all go to hell

Good try with that misinformation. There is nowhere an implication or clue that LGBT+ people go straight to Hell in Hellaverse just because they are lgbt+. Try harder next time.
>Pic related.

M&M are so cute

>>149167656
Yeah Viv like most modern writers is just writing her ideal fantasy where everyone is gay and most if not all the straights are the bad guys. Notice how Striker, Stella, Lute, and Adam are all straight? Hell Andre was trying to bang his sister and got made gay because she backed out.

>>149167409
I understood the arguments, I just pointed out they're retarded

>>149167877
>still not refuting it

>>149167409
>>149166672
As the guy who wrote that, I think I can make it a bit clearer.
Little Demon was by no means a very good show but I can watch it and see genuine interest in playing with occultism, supernatural horror, et cetera.
Vivzie talks about this kinda stuff in interviews but it very rarely translates outside of like, a gothic romance approach to writing Blitzo and Stolas.
I think I've sorta got a good example here. The Hellaverse consistently references BDSM and you have like, Valentino's whole schtick.
Let me ask something? How do none of those scenes feel like they have any genre inspiration whatsoever? If Vivzie did so much research on occult/supernatural stuff, then how did she take no inspiration from the over a century of a genre associated with torture and using BDSM-inspired imagery? Why does it all look like a regular ass porn studio/club?
Like, the genre and setting being parodied is the same one that gave us Hellraiser. I don't need a fucking cenobite cameo but she doesn't use the fucking genre at all. Their kinky BDSM clubs should be our horrific torture chambers.
My point is this
>Vivzie doesn't genuinely play with the genre, tropes, or mythology she says she is playing with and it shows. She sidesteps a lot of the crazy supernatural shit instead of even trying to utilize the hallmarks of the genre she's writing in
Off the top of my head, what if instead if Vivzie's demons not really being into sacrifices, the animals in Wrath were blood sacrificed animals? Humans sacrificing animals is how hell gets milk.

>>149166115
ah...those writters could learn a thing or two from you then, perhaps they could improve just a little bit by how you carried yourself right now, so selfaware and humble.

>>149161806
Why are you surprised that a show made by a fat lesbian is super shallow with shit writing? Are you guys genuinely retarded?

See the issue with finally allowing these shows to crossover is that no one especially not Blitz will take any of Charlie's redemption plans seriously which is only gonna make Charlie even more upset because she cant force people to redeem themselves without making it seem like gaslighting.

They really need to just have the story be she only came up with the hotel because she's mad at her mom for leaving them and her reason for leaving was "honey this is hell. Hell is not a place you make a utopia the wicked are sent there for a reason."

>>149167656
That's not what I said. You are inventing your ow narrative so you can bitch and complain at someone. I said I was surprised the LGBTQ+ community hadn't seen it that way.

You are also basing your own stance on a single shot of a bunch of hot guys and inventing your own narrative around it based on assumption. Can you show actual gays in Heaven in this show? No assumptions, no "you just know!" , I want facts.

Babble. Absolute gibbering, cackling schizo-babble.

>>149168507
Vaggie is a celestial lesbian. If Lute hadnt clipped her wings, she'd still be there. Look at Saint Peter and tell me he is no bi at least.
And you use google AI as your sources? pfftt

>>149168657
>he is no bi
ESL

>>149168689

>>149168657
>Look at Saint Peter and tell me he is no bi at least.
Again, an invented assumption.

>And you use google AI as your sources? pfftt
No, I typed things into Google to check my facts(which you don't do) and that was one of the things that came up.Other things came up too. That AI is still more reliable than you, though, who relies on fraudulent claims, false narrative, headcanon, baseless assumptions and outright lies.

>>149168734
Yes

>>149168737
>Ignores Vaggie
Ok

>>149168657
Being in Hell made Vaggie gay, retard.
>b-b-but this one guy looks-
Basing off appearances are we? Strange, I thought your kind hated that.

>>149168759
She went gay after going to hell. You have not presented any actual fact or evidence so far, just your own narrative and shaky assumptions based on appearances.

>>149168772
>>149168802
Wait, so then do gays go to hell or does hell make you gay? Oh fuck, if I ended up in hell would it make ME gay? Oh god oh fuck, I gotta go visit a church.

>>149168772
>Being in Hell made Vaggie gay.
What was that about not assuming things?

>Basing off appearances are we? Strange, I thought your kind hated that

You are talking about Vivziepoo's creation

>>149168826
Name one instance of her being gay before being left to die in Hell.

>>149160651 (OP)
>Blitz and Stolas appear and save the day
Blitz and Stolas are way below anyone from the first circle, when it comes to their power level. They would get steam rolled by anyone there. Your averege sinner is stronger then them after death.

>>149168826
Just so you know a third actor has entered this debate. I am
>>149168802
>>149168737
>>149168507
>>149167502
I've added a tripcode so we don't get mixed up with the other Guy.

>>149160936
>>tfw fanfics completely surpass both shows in everything
>>tfw it had become the norm that fan content is better than the official content
Or maybe you're just an whiny bitch with overblown ego.

>>149168889
Stolas and the Goetia are canonically above Overlords in both station and power. Viv statement and word of God.

>>149168905
Viv...

>>149168845
we have 30 seconds of her background, and was only about the Extermination. With that logic how you know X character is straight? How you know X is gay?.

PS: continue with this bait, i like it.

>>149168905
What are you doing here Vivzie? Or are you Brandon?

>Mah fanfic is better than official product!
Yeah, and who's making money? Spoiler, not you.

Every time when I hear news about these shows, it tends to get worse

>>149169043
Ranking quality in money, are we?

>>149169043
Poor anon, he thinks selling a lot = good quality hahaha. Poor, poor anon.

>>149168906
I still feel like some Overlords can probably rival Goetia, or at least the lower level ones.
Like sure Stolas is probably stronger than Alastor, since he’s a Goetia Prince, but the other Goetia ranks like Marquis and such are presumably weaker.
Then again power level discussion for this gay demon show doesn’t really matter.

>>149169067
>>149169086
I would rather be rich and mediocre, than poor "genius" like you guys.

>>149160651 (OP)
I don't know where you're getting any of this from since the closest thing to a crossover we saw previously was a fizzbot and angel dust appearing on a poster. If anything they'd probably be cameos for a gag, or only the sins will appear in Hazbin because they're close friends of lucifer.

>>149169126
Yuuup, definitely you are Vivziepoop. Still mad about "my name is Caine, i am your B I T C H"??

>>149169126
Instead you're just poor and mediocre.

>>149168395
>she cant force people to redeem themselves without making it seem like gaslighting.
I'm gonna be totally honest and say that would be genuinely better than what we're getting. I'm not the biggest fan of the kind of gothic writing she tries to emulate but like, obviously I've read/seen my share of shit like Frankenstein, Hunchback, Phantom of the Opera, and obviously psychological horror or even stuff like some Batman stories.
The genre is at its best when it focuses on incredibly flawed figures or tinkers with stuff we typically to pretend isn't part of the human condition. Complexes, emotional baggage, mental illnesses and personality disorders, aggression, desperation and entitlement.
This seems to be the part that Vivzie wants to write but doesn't really know how because if you put it in the hands of a writer within the genre, characters like Lute and Valentino would be the ones in the hotel instead of like, this group of people who just need a bit of therapy and some TLC. For the simple fact it's more interesting to tinker around in the heads of characters like that.
So Charlie developing such a complex around redeeming people and using more questionable methods to do so would feel much more in-line with the kind of angsty gothic writing Vivzie seems to like so much.

>>149169166
The fuck are you on about, you cis male incel?
>>149169181
Keep seething loser.

>>149169198
>cis male
And what are you, anon?

>>149169166
do you genuinely believe pigzie would ever come here?
lets be honest anon, she wouldnt touch this place with 10 vpns

>>149169444
Nobody does when they make those accusations, it's a form of (merited) ridicule.

>>149168905
>an whiny bitch with overblown ego.
It's always the fucking ESLs...

>>149168905
Your trash ass shows stink like the asses from the evil rape-happy and murder-happy faggots that you uselessly try to glamorize, while villainizing the First man, a Saint as well who was just a humble farmer with enough good will to transfer seventy years of his life to one of his descendants.

But who cares?, except for Hot Topic and schizos like us, your shit is gonna be forgotten

>>149161667
The episodes written by Brandon Rogers are easily the best in the show. He wrote Season 1 as well as Ghostfuckers. The show went to shit for the vast majority of Season 2 after he got replaced in the writer's chair by Adam Neylan, who is retarded.

Rogers is the best part of the show and the best comedy writer they have. Blitzo is a funny character in the episodes he writes unlike Neylan's Blitzo who is incredibly insufferable and annoying. There's a lot wrong with Helluva Boss and the back half is almost universally terrible - but it's pretty easy to see that Rogers isn't at fault for basically any of it. Even his own favorite episodes of the show are all ones he worked on like Ghostfuckers, he's much better with regards to comedy, restraint, and even character writing than the disaster duo of Vivzie and Neylan. They ruined the show.

>>149169847
Damn bro you killed him

>>149166193
The ultimate problem with helluva is how inconsistent it is imo. It IS funny, dare I say even really funny sometimes. There's great physical comedy, some pretty good one-liners every now and again, and even some of the character moments or songs can be funny, even with all the obnoxious over-the-top swearing.

The issue is that starting with Season 2, basically every single instance of the genuine comedy of the series is drowned in poorly written melodrama and unfunny sex jokes. The tonal whiplash is sometimes just insane, and the show's best content continues to be content like the shorts where they actually do their fucking assassin missions or one-off episodes like ghostfuckers or the one where the DHORKs and CHERUBs return where the majority of it is the team actually doing what they do best and working together to accomplish some kind of goal. IMP themselves have great chemistry and can be a lot of fun to watch, but the sidelining of their dynamic to make more room for Blitzo/Stolas melodrama is miserable. I really hope that after Sinsmas, they can just cut that shit out and have the two in a relationship without wasting every episode on will they/won't they garbage so that the show can go back to putting the group in amusing situations.

>>149170023
Thank you I was saving that for a long time

>>149166674
Satana and Lucyfer catfight....

>>149160651 (OP)
I WANT LUTE TO FUCK MY ASS

>>149170650
I think you meant you wanna fuck Lute's ass. Right anon? Right?

>>149170674
What are you, gay?

>>149160936
Since fan content is better than official content how about we share hazbin hotel/helluva boss fan content we like comics,fanfics and animations

>>149170703
Anon, this is a blue board....

>>149170703
>futa

>>149170703
Were gonna kill you

>>149170703
When you get sent to Hell for your blasphemy, Heaven are gonna stop being pussies, they're gonna recreate the stompy robots from battletech and in the next, and you'll be annihilated how it should be, with lots of HOLY FIRE

>>149170167
I was disappointed when it went from "workplace comedy about assassins in Hell" and just became "sad gay imp and owl show"

>>149170940
Or this other one, I don't know, I'm looking to the Manufacturing Centers of House Davion and what mechs do they produce, but I can't identify the first one I posted

>>149170963
I'm also looking the ones that are manufactured in New Avalon, and none of those looks like that one

>>149166190
>and they share a common enemy
How? Wouldn't Charlie and Blitzo be enemies because one's trying to bring out the best in people, while the other profits off of people being their worst?

>>149160936
>tfw fanfics completely surpass both shows in everything
Every fanfic is just
>a human male appears and fucks all of the girls
or
>40k power level trite

>>149171282
>>40k power level trite

>You're father was a mediocre demon but he was a BRILLIANT scientist

>>149171282

>>149171282
>a human male appears and fucks all of the girls

Porn w/ romance. Not exactly shocking

>Power level trite

Most of the power level stuff comes from actual folklore and mythology. Human warlocks like Anon could be insanely op in medieval sagas and Heikalot mystics could get even more op temporarily. Besides Emberlynn could use a talisman she bought on Etsy to ward off Blitzo and its not like shes a regular Dione Fortune.

>>149160651 (OP)
sex

>>149170738
Obligatory.
https://archiveofourown DOT org/works/65989972/chapters/170028016

>>149171282
That anon probably meant that fanfics of both shows are way better builded than even both shows and admit it hh and hb are extremely bareboned for their setting.
they actually add the whole bible lore alongisde the book of enoch with the apocrypha...shit even the kolbrin sometimes or the ethiopian bible.

>>149172197
That was my point
HH and HB have huge problems but making them more biblically accurate isn't the solution. It's not that kind of cartoon

>>149172298
exactly, thats the point.
not make it biblically accurate but still add everything inside in a smart way to build more stories or fill the world with it.
the nephilim would be interesting to see and so would the fallen angels, specially if they do something similar to them like the show did with adam.
not make them curse like a sailor or be like adam but essentially make them unique and nothing like you expected or knew about them.

>>149172298
Biblical accuracy just kinda feels like a disingenuous complaint. Like, are we gonna start complaining about shit like Hellboy?
What about the Omen? The Bible never indicated the anti-christ would be the literal child of Satan.
Most supernatural bible invoking fiction plays fast and loose with what it does and doesn't use

I've never seen Helluva Boss but I have seen Hazbin Hotel and it's the most frustrating show since Rwby. The central question is an interesting one. Should 60 or so years on Earth dictate where you spend eternity? It's eternity. 1000 life ages of the universe could come and go and your circumstances wouldn't be any different than the day you arrived. What's more, if life just continues in a different form and a person can change then theoretically if a person can get even a little bit better then a person could become worthy of heaven over time. Conversely a person in heaven could get worse and become unworthy of heaven. Again it's eternity. Anything that happens once will happen an infinite number of times. What does that mean and how do the people within that system rationalize that.

But Hazbin just doesn't seem interested in this existential paradox. And I hate that. From what I understand Helluva is in a similar boat where it had a strong premise and then meandered into shitty romance.

>>149170703

>>149172532
Then don't have the Angels and Heaven in general not knowing their own rules on who deserves Heaven and is Virtuous and Righteous(not a fucking winner, it isn't about winning, it is about living with a clean soul) and who doesn't, the fucking commandments exists for that reason, and the virtues and the sacraments, and I don't know how many more if you include the laws of the Talmud in Judaism, fuck, also include the Seven Heavens with a Saints or Archangel to embody the Virtue of each Heaven, to be a mirror to Hell, all designated by The Father, The And Holy Spirit, also don't make them so blatantly evil, it's just forced and retarded, specially with rapists and cannibals down in Hell, make them Neutral, that's that

>>149173285
If Viv didn't make a retarded strawman then she'd have no target for her weak and retarded insults and 'commentary'.

>>149173285
Also no extermination, make Hell into Somalia, fucking turf wars from the Mafias and there you go

HELLUVA BRAP

>>149173285
Calm down it's just a drawing

>>149172582
I will reiterate
>>149168192
>>149169183
What you're asking for is precisely the kind of uncomfortable shit that the genre Vivzie wants to parody goes into but she can't really do it.
You look at the Hazbin cast and especially after the Season 2 leaks, they look like the safest most redeemable cast she could have come up with.
Gothic writing isn't just supposed to be like "counter-culture and angst", it's supposed to be a look at both the dark and uncomfortable parts of how we think or act as a society or the human condition in general.
You look at classic gothic literature and it's often not sugarcoated what terrible fucking people the main characters are. But they're written with the understanding that they are the damaged products created by the society or the life that the story is criticizing.
Even in more modern stuff like, as I mentioned Hellraiser, the main character is a good person but the story makes in clear that there's a darkness in Kirsty, that on some level she's enamored by what she's seeing going on around her and that on some level she's as messed up as Frank.
Like, the biggest irony is like, the characters I'd most define as fitting the genre are Lute, Striker, and Adam.
What you described would be a "core question" that would fit the genre but it doesn't work because Vivzie can't fit the genre

>>149172060
Absolute cinema.

>>149172060
Love this, can't wait for next chapter.

>>149160936
that only applies to shows that were shit to begin with

>>149173645
Hazbin is not and never was "gothic writing"
It was always just funny showtunes with quirky gay people. Setting it in Hell was just an aesthetic choice

>>149168905
Vivzie…

Wait, so you guys actually hate the way these cartoons are written? Thought you all were joking.
Then, why even bother watching both in the first place if you hate them?

>>149173844
>Implying anyone watches these cartoons and aren’t just making fanfiction and self insert porm

>>149173844
It's the equivalent of trainwreck shows on TV.
But /co/. A sort of 'so bad it's good to laugh at' factor.

>>149173739
Anon, Stolas starts out as a Byronic hero straight out of a gothic romance novel down to the "nobleman of power who has learned to secretly despise the upper crust society he belongs to while pining for a member of a lower class who he has come to fetishize as a means of escapism."
One of the main characters of Hazbin is "a gay drug addict with a criminal past continuing to throw himself into more and more mindless hedonism as a means of both avoiding his underlying issues and numbing himself."
Charlie is literally "child with abandonment issues clings to a savior complex in order to avoid confronting her own past."
The tropes are all over the fucking place, it's just extremely sugarcoated so you can't tell.
And again, I'm not particularly the biggest fan of the genre but if you can't recognize the hallmarks of the 1800s literature that all of us read in English class that's on you.

>>149173844
Spindleshit is one of the most popular things on /co/ given how there is never not a thread (usually multiple) discussing it, even during long hiatus periods. Meanwhile anons will swear up and down they hate the shows, while mysteriously spending copious amount of time discussing them, hyperfixating on x or y character etc.

It's honesty pretty entertaining and funny to witness at this point.

>>149173737
uh huh tell me more about it

>>149173844
I watch HH and HB because a lot of characters have great designs and are very interesting/funny and both series have good moments and interesting ideas. BUT, both series has a lot of problems, like the writting is weak and they focus more in the fanservice (they even leave plotholes or change things to make it happens; *cough cough Stolas being fucking useless without his book and only knows 2 spells so he can stay with Blitz in the human world, but we saw him do badass shit without it 3 episodes before cough cough)

>>149173852
The Circus killed HB.

>>149174176
Or Vaggie not knowing celestial weapons hurts/kills Angels since the beginin (even if she lost an eye and bleed) because that would be too easy

>>149173844
The writing is godawful but the animation and visual storytelling element is top notch at times. You visibly see Vivzie's past as an animator for music videos as well as her affinity for things like symbolism or letting her characters emote

>>149173645
NTA but we talked about this a while back and I proposed a question: what if Valentino wanted to be redeemed? Most of the audience this show cultivates would say "fuck no." Because Valentino is clearly a sex trafficker who enslaves his victims with drugs to keep them dependent on him. How horrifying...

Angel is a murderer. Technically a serial killer. Shitty lore says that Angel was a gangster in life and then in Hell he continues that trend. The only reason his victims come back is because he doesn't have the means to kill them permanently, not that he would care either way. I would say his characterization is too over the to be taken seriously except there is a real world example of a psycho who kills indiscriminately: Darrell Brooks. And everyone cheered as he was dragged away to prison. No one cared about his sad backstory. The only reason Angel gets clemency is because we know him on a personal level. So when we see Valentino remind him that he's a slave, we empathize with how Angel feels. But why is Angel anymore special than any other demon of Hell? Why is Valentino? Alastor has slaves too, 2 of which we know.

If the premise of the show is that any demon, no matter how bad, can be redeemed then surely Valentino is just as welcome in the Hazbin Hotel as anyone else. Right? And if there are some demons that are just unforgivable, where is that line drawn? I'm not saying that the problem is the characters. I'm saying I don't think Viv cares about that kind of interrogation of good and evil. And that the show uses Christian mythos as an aesthetic rather than a desire to engage with it.

>vaggie is an angel
>lute cut off her wings and stabbed out her eye using angelic steel
>vaggie has to be told that angelic steel harms angels
This is the biggest piece of shit writing in Hazbin that proves that the writers how no fucking Idea what they are doing

Pilot Charlie sex

>>149160936
This happens a lot honestly. It's a good thing too because a healthy fandom means a healthy show.

>>149161806
This scene made me laugh to tears because the hypocrisy is so astounding that it's genuinely retarded, there's really no other point to it besides cater to the gays who watch this show.

>>149174457
Think dumber. When training Vaggie, Carmilla says

>I know you're thirstin' for vengeance, Vaggie
>You're out for blood
>But you'll only stand a chance if you're out for love

Carmilla...I don't know which show you've been watching but EVERYTHING Vaggie does is for love. She's at your house, right now, because she wants to protect Charlie. Before "Whatever It Takes" Vaggie says that she has no purpose if she can't carry out Charlie's will. Vaggie already knows all of this. What's the point of this song?

>>149174474
Healthy fandom?? Hellaverse healthy fandom? The fandom is fucking shit, full of crybabies who cant take criticism, fight every week for stupid shit like "Charlastor is ok or is bad?", call you hater if you dont share the hivemind with the "big names" of the fandom and more.
Its like Steven Universe fandom over again.

I dont udnerstand how Charlie can say that Lucifer never was for her or helped her when he was the one who get the metting with Adam in Episode 1 and the invitation to Heaven in Episode 6.
I think Charlie has daddy issues only when she doesnt need Lucifer.

>>149174919
The meeting in episode one was Charlie covering for her dad. He was originally supposed to go
Thats why Adam and Lute got confused and didn't give a shit when she brought up her hotel idea. They were just there to tell Lucifer that they were going to have the extermination happen sooner

>>149174919
So I think the logic goes that because of Lucifer's depression, he closed himself in, which led to him shutting himself away from Charlie. Charlie, who is a very extroverted personality and wants to have an active role in the ruling of Hell, would then feel abandoned by Lucifer who had already given up hope for humanity. Yes Lucifer did coordinate the meet with Dickmaster but then you remember he coordinated a meet with Dickmaster. Given his personality and Heaven's intentions, I don't even know why they bothered to show up. Was it just a coincidence that Lucifer asked for a meeting around the same time Carmilla killed the Angel? Forcing Dickmaster and Lute to show up to the meeting on the pretense of meeting with Charlie but in reality investigating the fact a demon killed an Angel for the first time.

I don't know and frankly I don't think Viv thought that far. I also don't understand how Lucifer can just set up these meetings with Heaven or why Heaven capitulates to them. They HATE Lucifer. Why not just tell him to fuck off?

>>149160736
I havent seen either show but always assumed it was the same setting or lore or whatever.

>>149160911
sounds kino as fuck

>>149174990
It is the same setting, they just weren't allowed to cross the characters over outside of very small references because of Hazbin's Amazon contract.

>>149175005
oh ok

>>149160651 (OP)
I see people more worried about Hazbin Hotel than Helluva Boss. Its sad how the "light spinoff" had surpassed the main story and threatens to leave it in oblivion and/or devour it

How much beelzejuice would it take to get Blitzo to wager Loona's adoption certificate in a demon duel?

>>149175602
God imps are so hot
If I was in hell I would be having nasty impsex 24/7

>>149175633
We know Stolas.

>>149175602
Why you sensored Dennis's face? He is handsome and cute

Imagine being Lute's victim

>>149160911
>their two businesses are completely at odds
I wouldn't say that. I.M.P. kills assholes, and then said assholes have a chance to redeem themselves at the Hazbin Hotel.

Divorce arc incoming.

>>149173844
The pilots, man. They sucked me in. I was so hyped for what was to come. And then I read about how much of a flaming cunt Viv actually is. And then each show came out. And then season 2 of Helluva came out. And now I watch just to laugh at myself for falling for such a scam and at the shows themselves for being such dumpster fires of contrivances, contradictions and socio-political messaging.
I feel like I can't stop watching because I'm simply too invested in how much worse it could get. Morbid curiosity, like with Millie's pregnancy. The writers have proven themselves to be such leftist hacks who prefer virtue signalling over decent plotpoints that people are actually scared to death that Millie will just abort the baby and Moxxie will either never know or will eventually forgive her after weeks of separation. Nobody really wants that, but it's expected because that's the kind of people who are writing this shit.
I welcome it. I've embraced the absurdity that is Viv's dream projects and absurdity makes me laugh.

>>149173686
>>149173709
Is it actually that good?

>>149161806
Are you saying Blitzo would spare the Zulocks?

>>149174418
Well. The real irony of Valentino is he immediately got a sort of "I can fix him" reaction from a lot of the audience and the real irony is that that whole "Byronic Hero" bad boy type which now is mostly associated with romance novels started out with some of the most iconic characters of the entire genre like Heathcliff.

Is Valentino someone who could be redeemed? I dunno. Is Valentino someone who should have potential redeeming or otherwise human traits for the writer to play with? Absolutely yes.
Hallmark of the genre is that even a lot of the most irredeemable characters have a humanity to them and we'd get to not simply see the actions that would cross the line towards irredeemable but the psychology which lets him continue to act so. How he dodges the guilt of his own actions.

>>149173285
>Getting into Heaven

Varies by religion

>Judaism non Hasidic (consensus pre 1700s, majority consensus modern day)
Gentiles only need to follow the first seven of the ten commandments to get the good afterlife. Hell is temporary for everyone but the worst of the worst. That or complicated reincarnation shit where eventually everyone incarnates as a Jew/someone who converts.

>Judaism, Hasidic (consensus welfare recipients)
Only Jews go to heaven and only Jews in your particular sect. Gentiles don't have souls.

>Pre Nicene Christian (reconstructed from Origen and Psuedo-Clement)

Eventually everyone will find Christ and be saved including possibly the devil. For non believers this will be after a purification period where they will be forced to experience all the pain they've caused. Pious and good Christians get to skip this or get a shorter turn and or get out of reincarnation. Eventually world is transformed into a new Eden and everyone is now a happy version of Dr. Manhattan.

>Catholics, Anglicans most Eastern Orthodox sects (consensus 4th century to modern era)

Souls require baptism in this lifetime to be able to access heaven by cleansing them of original sin. However if the person did not do enough good works in life they will end up in purgatory with the time there depending on how much they sinned. Time in purgatory may be shortened by prayers for the dead from the living.

>Lutheran Protestantism (consensus Jesus dashboard statue owners)

Morality is completely irrelevant to salvation as all humans are wicked sinners who can never improve themselves even after baptism. Faith in sect doctrine and thinking well of God are all you need to get to heaven. Any kind of morality is arbitrary signs of obedience.

>Normative Islam (consensus 8th century to 1800s)

All Muslims who don't commit major sins go to heaven but will have to experience a period of purification before ascent.

>>149160736
>because the entire point of Hazbin Hotel is supposed to be that the denizens of Hell aren't as irredeemable as Heaven makes them out to be
Wait isn't the whole premise supposed to be about rehabilitating sinners to get into Heaven? What the fuck is this show even about?

>>149177963
(cont)

>Islam cont

No consensus on the fate of non muslim monotheists. All idolaters doomed to hell forever.

>Sufi (consensus snake charmers and white guys in fezzes)

Heaven is a state of nonduality achieved by reaching a oneness with God. Hell is an illusion.

>Islam Salafism (consensus Gauntanamo Bay, Britain)

Only people who follow a certain type of Islam go to heaven and they must follow all the rules. Suicide Bombers bypass this.

>Mandaean

Only Mandaeans go to heaven and only through rites of baptism and burial rites in a similar manner to the Egyptians. Possible reincarnation.

>Yazidi
No consensus beyond reincarnation but the general idea is that no one gets into heaven until after Melek Taus and the Yazidis go second. Presumably other people go as well but how many or what they do is unknown.

>Druze

Like Sufi but with no doubt about reincarnation

>>149176506
>AHHHH IM PREGNANT WITH THE CHILD OF MY LOVING HUSBAND WHAT AM I GOING TO DOOOOOOO??

>>149178025
Woman moment

>>149177963
>>149178014
You forgot the one true religion.

>Molochism
No one gets into Heaven because it doesn't exist and everyone gets tortured by Lord Moloch forever.

>>149178069
>Believes in Moloch

The way to true salvation is auditing your thetans

>>149178155
It doesn't matter if you're good or bad, Lord Moloch will torture you either way.

>>149178069
>>149178367
Moloch muh baals

>>149160736
>Helluva Boss is a dark comedy about a bunch of fuck-up hitmen murdering people on the behalf of shitty vengeful sinners (or at least it was until season 2
Did it even last a full season like that?

>>149168905
Sup Viv, go cry on Bluesky some more

>>149178427
It didnt even last past the pilot.

>>149175602
honestly, i don't think he would ever.
we've seen him having doubts about stolas and iirc even his job but he never faltered when it came to her paternal love for loona, even tho he's kind of retarded at it

That Faggot who was claiming their were confirmed gay characters in Heaven was in a Gwen Tennyson thread on /v/ earlier(it might still be up?) where he was doing his brand of "i can make claims with no evidence and lead people on for hours" shtick.