Now that I've finished reading this I still think it's pretty mediocre. I definitely like it less than the two X-Men books running concurrently with it

you like xtreme and ultimate more?>

>>149174441 (OP)
>I still think it's pretty mediocre.
ive never heard anyone say anything but.

>>149174441 (OP)
I think it's good until somewhere around Riot at Xavier's. The Xorneto twist was very obviously a late addition, though I don't think it was a bad arc overall. Here Comes Tomorrow is very questionable as it mainly exists solely to allow Scott to hook up with Emma with Jean's blessing.

>>149174881
>The Xorneto twist was very obviously a late addition

It wasn’t. It’s clearly built from the start if you aren’t illiterate

>>149174771
I haven't read Ultimate but I did like X-treme and Uncanny more, yeah. The latter if only because of the Juggernaut subplot

>>149174908
>It’s clearly built from the start
When? When Xorn's head was LITERALLY going supernova in China? Or the POV issue with an internal monologue that was clearly not Magneto? Ok retard.

>>149175159
You have a reading comprehension problem. It’s okay, work on it. One day you can go back to Morrison’s X-men and realise what a stupid moron you were and recognise all the hints and foreshadowing.

>>149175184
Why are Morrison fans such massive pseuds?

>>149174881
I'm inclined to agree, even if I do think some of the wider status quo changes are what led us to the absolute state of the X-Men for the past 20 years.
The Scott and Emma stuff is just funny. It's clearly just Morrison presenting his preferred ship and moving the universe around to make it happen, especially the way Jean dies

>>149174441 (OP)
I'm still thinking of reading this. Given Morrison's 2000s comics, it can't be a worse disappointment than Claremont.

>>149175359
If you don't like the X-Men then you'll probably like this

>>149175209
Because you're a midwit

>>149175545
Anyone willing to read comic books is, at best, a midwit.

>>149174441 (OP)
They should go back to wearing team jackets.

>>149175209
I want to say it's a shitposter pretending to be a Morrisonfag but a lot of them really do act like that.

>>149175958
Shut up tranny

>>149177452
Only if it's the bomber jackets with normal looks underneath. And the Avengers should do it again too

I like X-Men, should I read this run or not? because I heard it's an influential and important run and formed the baseline for a bunch of later shit but then again Morrison writing X-Men is not something I'd expect

>>149177539
If you like X-Men you should read it. I'm down on it but I still don't think it's bad, and I can see its influence on a bunch of later stuff. It's probably one of the best runs to read standalone too with the way it doggedly refuses to acknowledge basically any other book happening at the same time

>>149177452
They briefly wore some just prior to Fall of X.

>>149177518
The Avengers' Emergency Response Squad (Aveng.E.R.S.) have taken to wearing white and red team jackets in Avengers Assemble. It's the main team that doesn't.

>>149175159
That was all fakery man. It was all written down in his pitch that was included in the back of the first E for Extinction trade, just written in a vague enough way as to not spoil it.

>>149174441 (OP)
I still dislike how Morrison only ever used his core cast cast of 6 X-Men and a bunch of mostly lame OCs. Characters like Rogue, Gambit, Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Angel, Nightcrawler, etc. were nowhere to be seen. Only Bishop of all people got to make a brief guest appearance, and I bet it was only because the plot required a mutant cop.

>>149177872
If he used every character, there would be no room for any of the characterization he wanted to do. Claremont had dibs on Rogue (for the better, in Morrison's pitch he wanted to make her more like the movie version) Gambit and Kitty. Iceman Angel and Nightcrawler were Casey's/Austen's in Uncanny.

>>149177872
Those characters were largely appearing in other X-books coming out at the same time, dumbass.

>>149177565
>It's probably one of the best runs to read standalone too with the way it doggedly refuses to acknowledge basically any other book happening at the same time
thank you that's what I needed to know, fuck I hate having to do homework or constantly look up things online

>>149177518
no thanks. that bomber jacket is actually Members only and everybody was fucking wearing it even the Avengers back in the late 90's 2000s

does this run include Psylocke? not worth reading X-Men if there's no sexy Japanese ninja with the mind of a British aristocrat

>>149177872
I don't mind that he didn't feature them in stories or anything, but the extent to which he ignored the other books was definitely distracting. Especially the stuff going on in Casey's book, what with Alex coming back and Xavier reconciling with Cain. It's like Morrison wanted to set the X-Men status quo without having to be beholden to anyone else

>>149174441 (OP)
Agree. Whedon's Astonishing is much better, I highly recommend it.

>>149174441 (OP)
>pretty mediocre
Yeah that's about how I felt about all the X-Men comics I've ever read.

>>149177872
I'm more annoyed about he went out of his way to ignore the rest of the Marvel Universe, even more than X-Men writers usually do. Like how none of Marvel's heroes show up to help in the final battle against Magneto in New York.

>>149178307
I think that Captain America being retconned to be Weapon I of Weapon Plus is the only time Morrison bothered acknowledging the wider Marvel universe.

>>149178307
Halfway through he put in a throwaway line about how literally every other hero in new york was led on some goose chase about a fake bomb and trapped in Brooklyn or something like that. That story was very easily the worst part of the run

>>149178307
To make matters worse, later writers and X-Men fans decide to use the fact that Morrison didn't bother writing about anyone helping out after Genosha as an excuse to portray the Avengers as not caring about mutants.

>>149178043
Why would the main book have to bend over backwards to feature storylines done in other books when they bear no importance or relevance to the main plot?

Morrisson ruined the X-Men to a point it can be felt til this day

>>149178456
Acknowledging that other characters exist and that the world exists outside of your own book is hardly "bending over backwards", and every other book manages it just fine

>>149178560
>and every other book manages it just fine
Not really.

>>149178669
Yes really. I'll use Casey's Uncanny run as my example. It's set in the same building, so it makes sense for certain characters to appear infrequently because they're nearby, even if they aren't the focus of a particular story. Scott makes various appearances in the run as the leader of the "other team" and that's all he really needs to be. Meanwhile in Morrison's run you'd be surprised to learn that other teams even exist because they are never even mentioned, and it is particularly jarring considering they literally share the same building

>>149178693
So? You're saying wasting page space on useless and meaningless cameos is good because your autism demands it?

>>149177966
Psylocke was in X-Treme and then she was dead for a while because Quesada had an autistic fit about deaths not mattering even though she was never intended to be Dead dead. Claremont also wanted to bring her back in her British body but higher ups said no because Japanese Betsy was the most popular version of the character. It had to take the Wokening to make that happen.
>>149178043
Morrison directly acknowledged Casey's X-Corps in his X-Corporation arc. He also respected Claremont's disagreement with his approach when he had Sage and Bishop show up in the book.

>>149178456
>>149178669
>>149178779
Morrison's greatest defenders on duty I see (they're failing terribly)

>>149179446
Not a Morrison defender, don't like him that much and I don't like this comic. I'm not surprised you can only think in extremes, that's what stupid people do, and since you're championing those shitty practices then you're clearly stupid.

>>149178560
Morrison’s run has Bishop, Sage and Casey’s X-Corp show up and retcons Captain America and several other characters to all be part of the same super soldier program that created Wolverine. But you just go abloo bllo bloo why didn’t Morrison write an entire story about Chuck and Marko that was already dealt with in another book. Ie you’re doing inane complaining

>>149175958
Go blow your fucking brains out.

>>149177468
>>149180512
Not you, though. You're a couple of retards.

>>149180679
Takes one to know one.

>>149174441 (OP)
The shitty run that ruined X-men.
Morrison made mutants into something they are not, make them unrecognizible from the Claremont/Lee era.
They later continued to make it worse with the crescendo being the Krakow bullshit.

Fuck that bald faggot

>>149181282
Claremont ruined X-Men.

I think I like Morrison better on DC stuff. Normally I like what I read of his but he was the start of the X-mens irreparable downfall. "Mutant culture" was a mistake.

>>149182617
Kurt Busiek, why are you posting here?

(OK fine, the original creators of X-Factor were also Silver Age X-Men fans who didn’t like the revival, there must have been others but not many.)

>>149182818
Busiek thought X-men were dead LONG before this

>>149182818
>>149182851
Couldn't be me. I never had the emotional attachment to these characters because they weren't very well written.

>>149182617
This.

>>149182774
Same but I also like DC stuff better in general.

>Claremont ruined X-Men
>Morrison ruined X-Men
>Busiek ruined X-Men
>Hickman ruined X-Men
when will you niggas stop

>>149175305
Is the stuff from the Whedon run where Nova planted Emma on the X-Men as her mole and she willingly went along with it still canon?

>>149183597
It's all wrong in any case. Bendis ruined X-Men.

>>149183597
Claremont made X-Men worth reading and he also ruined them by staying on far too long. He gave and take away. You can safely put it down after the Paul Smith issues or somewhere in the middle of the Romita issues, perhaps with the editorial transition from Weezie to Nocenti.

I had been reading and enjoying comics for almost 20 years, but had never really read X-Men. It was with Claremont's run that it turned out that comics weren't for me. Go figure.

>>149184202
>Claremont made X-Men worth reading
Certainly not.

>>149184335
Cool contrarian take.

>>149184358
>contrarian
Post discarded.

>>149184375
Yes, it is in fact contrarian to suggest that a title that went from reprints to Marvel's #1 best selling intellectual property spawning an entire ecosystem of spin-off books, multiple cartoons, and a live action movie franchise isn't worth reading.

>>149183768
another one of you /co/tard niggas, just parroting Bendis reeee opinions
>>149184375
you just accepted surrender

>>149184416
This wouldn't be the first time that something shitty sold. Are you so dumb that you don't realize "contrarian" could very well easily be used against you as an argument?
>>149184535
When you unironically use "contrarian" as an argument you admit defeat.

>>149184535
>just parroting Bendis reeee opinions
Contrarian much?

>>149184335
>>149184375
>>149184535
>>149184656
Contrarians seething at being called contrarian

>>149184416
Having read the actual comic, yeah, it's not that good. I wish I never picked it up.

>>149184702
Comics is the only medium in which a contrarian is probably in the right.

>>149186026
Contrarian in copium mode

>>149174441 (OP)
I liked it overall, but Astonishing was better.

Morrison writes DC better than he does Marvel.

>>149186196
It's just facts.

>>149186345
give me a reading order, I avoided this for the longest time just because I don't like Whedon

>>149189139
no

>>149189139
>give me a reading order,
You know these things are typically numbered right? Anyways if you don't like Whedon, this shit ain't gonna change your mind.

>>149177670
God that drawing is awful. Jean grey supposedly is one of the hottest girls in the Marvel Universe. Bishop is gay now? that's awful

>>149189139
You made the right call to avoid it.

>>149189760
>>149190063
I don't like Whedon for other reasons, and also writers changing titles or etc. could be confusing so there's no harm in asking for a reading order, especially if there's tie-ins?
>>149190240
really? because I kept hearing folks say it's good and I thought fuck it why not cave in for once

>>149175305
>The Scott and Emma stuff is just funny. It's clearly just Morrison presenting his preferred ship and moving the universe around to make it happen, especially the way Jean dies
I feel like this would have been called out and mocked a lot more it it wasn't written by someone with a cult of personality dickriding everything he does, and if X-Men fandom itself wasn't full of people who hate Jean. Those two things allowed Morrison to get away with a story anyone else would have got called a hack and a retarded shipper for doing.

>>149177942
He oddly seemed to go out of his way to write like there weren't any other X-Men books happening at the same time in a lot of his stories, even beyond what >>149178307 talks about with ignoring the wider Marvel Universe, while simultaneously trying to change the entire face of Marvel with the huge sudden increase in mutants worldwide.

>>149178843
With Sage and Thunderbird, Morrison just randomly gave them new powers or abilities in guest appearances, it's understandable that their main writer might have objected.

IIRC, Quesada's entire 'no resurrections' policy was eventually revealed to be a temporary rule that was put in place just so Magneto's return would be a shock, but this wasn't properly communicated to other writers, to keep it a secret, so Psylocke's death wasn't meant to last long, but happened at absolutely the wrong time.

>>149177955
Those Avengers jackets were cool though. Shame the West Coast team never wore them as well.

>>149191255
They started wearing jackets again courtesy of Night Thrasher. Only now they're doing it in the made-for-smartphone comic published exclusively on their subscription app, meaning next to nobody is even aware.

>>149191303
That mini has had a physical release, but those jackets suck in comparison to the origins. Marvel always finds a way to do callbacks to things people liked, yet in a way that's not as good.

>>149191303
I read the non-app issues because it looked like an non-MCU safe Avengers team that had my boy Hawkeye, but I didn't like it enough to be able to put up with the webtoon format.
Has Orlando shat it up yet?

>>149191221
It’s entirely normal to just write your own book instead of cramming references to what others are doing.
>B-b-but the bigger 616
Cramming in cameos is stupid and doesn’t add anything of real value

>>149191378
how are you incapable of understanding multiple people saying the same thing? yes youre not expected to reference every other Marvel ongoing comic at the time, but when there's a couple of "main" X-Men comics ongoing, the least the writer should do is collaborate and be in sync with the other writers, and at least make an effort to acknowledge the other storylines. Morrison did none of that and even more, his run was isolated to the point of feeling like it was its own separate continuity, and not enough people give him shit for it because he's got an army of dickriders defending every single thing he does

>>149191317
I haven't read every arc but what I've read has been fine. The arcs seem to be mostly self-contained so I haven't had much of a problem with tuning out for a few weeks at a time. It's like a palate cleanser for me, since the characters act less dickish and the plots are relatively low stakes, compared to many of the Avengers stories of the past two decades.

>>149190807
You hear a lot of folk praise terrible things. Why would you think this would be different?

>>149191405
It's worse than that, as there were accounts of him not communicating with other writers at all, to the extent that stuff he was doing that would affect other books, like the school getting destroyed, other writers didn't even know about until the issue was released.

Editorial shares the blame, but there were similar issues when he was writing the 'lead' Batman book.

When Claremont's X-book featured guest stars from the other teams, Cyclops is notably absent because Claremont was unable to contact Morrison and get an explanation of what was meant to be going on with the changes to his characterization.

>>149189139
Yeah, I don't like Whedon either, but this is one of the few things he did well. In the third or fourth Arc it goes into space and I stopped reading because I hate X-Men Space Adventures.

>>149191405
>his run was isolated to the point of feeling like it was its own separate continuity
I actually liked that about it. It might be an unpopular opinion but I’d actually rather capes went back to existing in their own individual universes.

>>149191550
>I’d actually rather capes went back to existing in their own individual universes.
Except Marvel hasn't been like that since the 60s. The shared universe is a huge selling point

>>149191550
Don't you know the only good Xmen stories have to reference 60 years of material or it's trash?

>>149191569
>why didn't Spidey and cap show up to high five Wolverine? :(

>>149191575
>why should members of X-Men have shared continuity with other members of X-Men in the same damn mansion, that's cringe crossovers bro cameos are wack

>>149191575
Wolverine's a funny character to pick considering he didn't even start out as an X-Men character. It's shared universes all the way down and you're just too stupid to know it

>>149191569
For some folks it might be, that doesn’t change my personal opinion that I’d rather read stories about one superhero or team and their rogues gallery than the writers or me as the reader having to take into account the other hundreds of them existing in the same world at the same time.

>>149191586
>akshually Wolverine debuted in Hulk, so he's not even "technically" an X-men character *snicker*. "

You're hilarious, I forget people like you exist.

>>149191598
>purposefully ignoring the point so you can call someone a nerd for reading comics

>>149174441 (OP)
the last arc was so ass desu

>>149191550
>but I’d actually rather capes went back to existing in their own individual universes
I agree too, but my complaint is that it's isolated even from other X-Men runs at the time, which is weird. and also in some cases like Magneto's shit, you just can't feasibly have only the X-Men cast show up and not the gazillion other NYC heroes

>>149191630
You're a nerd for being a weird lore cop in a universe that is incredibly convoluted. Acting like some of the best stories aren't self contained with vague continuity. I assume we all read comics

>>149191662
The point was that this shit has always existed in a shared continuity, and that Wolverine fact isn't convoluted in the slightest, it's literally just his first appearance.

>>149191441
>Morrison being uncooperative with other writers but attempting to make large status-quo-altering story decisions alone
say it ain't so!

>>149182617
Claremont was the only ine that make them work

I don't mind the new looks the characters got but this moment genuinely pissed me off when I read it

>>149192151
he's just an attention seeking faggot, don't respond to the ragebait

>>149191405
Morrison wrote the best book and it benefited from not giving a shit what other books did.

>>149192471
I enjoyed the other two significantly more. Outside of changing the status quo the book really isn’t very remarkable. It’s fine, but not great or anything

>>149192151
>>149192423
He didn't make them work. He just threw whatever the fuck he was watching on Star Trek and Doctor Who or in theaters into the mix.

>>149177846
>E for Extinction trade,

everybody knows its X for eXtinction

>>149191185
>>149175305
Morrison just straight up enjoys murdering women in his books. He writes villains sympathetically because that's his whole mindset.

We give Millar a lot of shit for his attitudes but Millar's like the hanger-on who says shit for attention. He doesn't really believe the shit he writes. Morrison... I wouldn't leave him alone in a mountain cabin with anybody. There wouldn't even be bones when you came back to get them, and he'd be feeding you some story about how he let them go out of respect. Fucking junkies man, can't trust 'em.

>>149192867
>"didn't made them work"
>when he infact propelled the X-Men as Marvel's signature property alongside Spider-Man and F4 and singlehandedly created so many lovable and iconic characters to be part of comic book history

>>149185006
Something not being to your taste (which would be contrary to the tastes of most comic buyers) doesn't necessarily make it bad.
>>149191221
>With Sage and Thunderbird, Morrison just randomly gave them new powers or abilities in guest appearances, it's understandable that their main writer might have objected.
Morrison just misunderstood Sage's "computer brain" powers and took it literally.

>>149193225
Weren't all the favorite X-Men characters created by Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Len Wein, and Dave Cockrum?
>Marvel's signature property
Doesn't mean it's not trash.

>>149193755
There's a difference between who created something and who defined it. The first few years of the Claremont run didn't sell all that great, it didn't really take off until Byrne took over on art and they continued to be successful long after Byrne left.

>>149174441 (OP)
i think a big detail people tend to miss in conversations like this is the characters involved

for me, dropping all the other characters except beast, and replacing them with more interesting characters would help make some stories more compelling

>>149182617
>>149192151
you're both wrong

I'm cold on it while being an average Morrison enjoyer, but the Cuckoos are awesome.

>>149191441
Reminds me of how during the New 52, George Perez was doing Superman but couldn't get a straight answer from anyone about what Morrison was doing over in Action Comics establishing Superman's new backstory. As such, he didn't even know if Ma and Pa Kent were alive in the present day. It's one of the reasons he quit the book.

>>149177539
It's good by itself as It's own thing, but if you read this with it's contemporary X-books or greater Marvel universe it's a mess of bad continuity and is quickly undone by the next writer.
Marvel retcons Magneto = Xorn the issue after Morrison leaves and has Bendis bring him back to life a few months later

>>149190228
>Bishop is gay now?
Well, he is black.

>>149191441
I do wonder about the amount sheer arrogance it takes to think that you're better than all of your peers to this degree

>>149196755
Some of the specific plot points of Morrison's X-Men got retconned, like the Magneto story (and it was Claremont who revealed he wasn't Xorn and never died, Bendis didn't bring him back to life), or dropped, like the leather costumes, but on a bigger scale of who and what the X-Men are, who and what mutants are, Morrison's X-Men changed everything forever, it was like a dividing line where nothing's ever been the same since, for better or worse. Mostly worse.

>>149197415
Well desu he is better, hence why he gets the exclusive contracts and can do whatever he wants with minimal interference. Most writers are contractors under the boot of their tyrannical editors.

>>149196755
>>149197431
Yeah Claremont brought Magneto back immediately with a "It wasn't me, how could anyone think I would do that?" explanation and then Austen brought in Xorn's twin brother.
X-Men in the mid-00s-early 10s was a hostile reaction to Morrison's run. M-Day happened because with Morrison gone Quesada changed his mind and decided he didn't want mutants as a minority-sized population, but a manageable number of heroes and villains.

>>149198415
>and then Austen brought in Xorn's twin brother.
To be fair, it was an editor who really loved Xorn that demanded a new Good Xorn to replace him.

>X-Men in the mid-00s-early 10s was a hostile reaction to Morrison's run. M-Day happened because with Morrison gone Quesada changed his mind and decided he didn't want mutants as a minority-sized population, but a manageable number of heroes and villains.
With the problem that almost every X-Men writer and editor after Morrison DOES think mutants are supposed to number in the millions worldwide, have their own ghettoes, etc, and that they should be doubling down on the metaphor at every opportunity, and some of them even seem to think it was always like that until M-Day. Quesada wanted to get things back to normal, even if he did it in the most retarded way possible, and instead of it being done in a way where Marvel just memoryholed the Morrison era and moved on, the X-books were allowed to spend YEARS fixated on getting back to how things were then.

Never forget that Claremont was one of the writers who seemed to want to get the books back to normal, and his Excalibur run had Xavier realize that the sudden surge in mutant numbers hadn't been a natural thing, with a tease that Sinister was behind it, while Whedon's X-Men introduced a mutant cure that actually worked, and that there were huge numbers of mutants that WANTED it. Everything was in place to just reveal Sinister had turned a gorillion normal humans into mutants, and to get things back to normal by curing them, and instead Marvel decide to throw Wanda under the bus and turn her into a pariah, and let the X-books obsess over getting the gorillion excess mutants back, and the heroes get increasingly radicalized over muh extinction. They're idiots.

>>149198360
>the editors treat him like a rock star, so should get to act like one
>it literally means he's better than everyone else
How you treat co-workers that you don't have to inconvenience or be a dick to is absolutely an indicator of character, anon.

>>149198610
They work for the same company in the same sandbox, but they're not really coworkers and writers typically don't coordinate with one another, not like they have each other's contact information. The onus was on his editors to demand his plans so those plans could be shared with others. But he sold better than most, so they never pressed, and let him work his off-the-cuff magic.

>>149198836
>writers typically don't coordinate with one another
If they're working within the same franchise, and they're going to do something that's going to impact other books, they typically do.

>But he sold better than most
He got an initial sales spike, but it didn't last. By the end of the run they were depending on things like a returning archenemy, and a returning star artist to try and bring sales back up again. And it was one of the core X-Men books, in the early 2000s. They could give it to a dog to write and it was still going to sell better than most of Marvel's other books.

>and let him work his off-the-cuff magic.
If you're gonna suck his dick that hard, at least ask for his money up front.

>>149198918
He got both good sales and acclaim, and that's why he was able sign on to an incredibly good exclusive deal with DC after Jemas rejected his Marvel Boy 2 pitch, an arrangement that lasted well over a decade. People who don't get results don't get their contracts renewed, as Bendis found out with his last desperate attempt to grab that bag.

>>149199287
>when you get accused of sucking the writer's dick and respond by sucking even harder than before

>>149199287
>>149199331
Reminder that Morrison threw a complete hissy at the end of Batman Inc. after Nu52 reminded him that he was just another script robot.

>>149198360
having a great reputation and not having the typical restrictions most comic book writers have us a good thing, but it’s not an excuse to act all isolationist and refuse to collaborate with your fellow writers that your storyline is supposed to intersect with. It’s unhealthy to put yourself on a pedestal like that, because despite your writing reputation if you can’t work with people, that’s a stain on your own talent

>>149198566
>Quesada ruined everything for the next few decades of stories
business as usual

>>149175057
Austen's run on Uncanny was dogshit and I'll never believe people who claim they prefer it to Morrison's run aren't just contrarians trying to stand out

>>149174441 (OP)
what are the other two books running concurrently with it?

>>149192541
>I enjoyed the Draco more

Take a load of this guy.

>>149202638
I haven't read the whole thing so I can't comment on the later sections, but the parts that ran concurrently with Morrison's have been pretty decent. I liked the stuff with Juggernaut and I liked the stuff with Jean Paul. Shipping bullshit aside I even liked having a human nurse around who has to adjust to mutie bullshit and actively fight her distrust and fear of mutants for the sake of her son. The stuff with Nightcrawler was retarded though I'll give you that
That's more than I can say I liked about Morrison's run at any rate
>>149202662
X-Treme and Uncanny

>>149196755
Morrison’s run was great, revitalised the line and pushed it away from just trying to copy Claremont. Marvel chickening out immediately after it was over and trying to retcon and turn the clock back in a way that resulted in years of increasingly bad stories is entirely on editorial being idiots and pushing bad ideas on the books because they were so afraid to actually let the X-books actually evolve rather than be entirely a nostalgia act.

>>149202109
It's honestly impressive how petty post 2000s are. Not that there was no drama before that but there was always the sense that when the toys were put back in the box they weren't gonna be broken and missing parts.

>>149198918
>By the end of the run they were depending on things like a returning archenemy

Magneto’s return from “death” twist was built for ages, it wasn’t any kind of desperate sales stunt.

>and a returning star artist to try and bring sales back up again.

The book had had issues with artists for the entire run because Quitely can’t handle a monthly schedule and they kept rushing Igor Kordey as emergency fill-in artist with ridiculous deadlines where his art was never the best and ultimately IIRC I think he even chose to quit the book ultimately because he didn’t like being blamed for “poor” art. Putting a new artist has more to do with that than concerns that the sales were abysmal.

>>149202799
so Whedon and Claremont were after Morrison’s run?

>>149203020
Claremont writes X-Treme

>>149203088
right my bad, I haven’t really read most X-Men books except a few highlight storylines so I’m clueless. so Astonishing X-Men by Whedon was after this then?

>>149174441 (OP)
These outfits looked like shit.
Like a bunch of douchebag snowboarders.

>>149203257
Yes, Astonishing is after Morrison's New X-Men
Claremont would come back for Uncanny again since X-Treme got canceled and Austen took over Adjectiveless for his last arc and was then replaced with Milligan

>>149202109
Anon, no. Everything was ALREADY ruined. Quesada's basic idea of trying to fix the X-books, and the wider Marvel Universe was sensible, but the way he went about trying to fix it was retarded, and the absolute morons he had working for him just took things in an insane direction that set X-Men further down the death spiral it was already on.

>>149202638
The X-Men themselves don't come across as such massive assholes in Austen's run. It's the little details like that, anon.

>>149202944
>gukgukgukgukgukgukguk

>>149203298
ah yeah, I heard Austen’s run was abysmal

>>149203694
>but the way he went about trying to fix it was retarded
thats exactly what I'm talking about, his attempts at "fixing" anything always end up making things worse. he should just stick to drawing and nothing else

>>149198566
>Everything was in place to just reveal Sinister had turned a gorillion normal humans into mutants, and to get things back to normal by curing them
qrd? was Claremont gonna pull a Spider-Island or something?

>>149198566
>and his Excalibur run had Xavier realize that the sudden surge in mutant numbers hadn't been a natural thing, with a tease that Sinister was behind it
qrd? was Claremont gonna pull a Spider-Island or something?

>>149202799
>I AM a god!
what did he mean by this, do newbie muties really think of themselves like deities? the overconfidence baka

>>149203278
should have gone with the alex ross designs

>>149204997
too expensive I guess

>>149199906
Inc was just the pessimistic take on the never-ending nature of corporate comics. Action Comics's ending focused on the positive aspects of that, Inc on the negative.
>>149201456
I can't think of any exclusive-contract writers who have a reputation for working well with the freelancers. Definitely not Bendis or Hickman.
It is funny, how for all of Morrison's seething about being denied Superman in the late 90s, Carlin's "no A-list talent on the Superman/Batman main titles because those books don't need them" policy saved a lot of headache that would negatively affect guys like Dixon and Perez when he did take control of those books later with Didio's "Give Morrison anything he wants" policy.
>>149202638
It started out okay-ish but man did it fall hard starting with the way he wrapped up Casey's Church of Humanity subplot and only got worse from there.
>>149203953
>do newbie muties really think of themselves like deities?
Honestly, yes.

>>149205152
the whole angelic mutants and demonic mutants thing was so retarded, especially with Azazel and him being Nightcrawler's dad. I know the recent retcon was a clusterfuck with Mystique and Destiny but goddammit I'll take that over whatever Austen was thinking

>>149203953
>>149205152
didn't Jean-Paul have that whole Asgard bullshit associated with him or something?

>>149203780
Austen's Uncanny was running concurrently with Morrison's run and Austen, being Marvel anime rip off art guy, was paired up with 90's manga superstar artist Kia Asamiya who was crazy slow and couldn't keep up with the Marvel schedule, they were very trying to follow the previous writer Joe Kelly trashy stuff, and with Morrison turning scripts in late, Uncanny had no ability to react to what is happening in New X-Men. So Marvel just let the guy do whatever with the characters Morrison and Claremont didn't want to use, i.e., 97% of the X-Men, he made Juggernaut a good guy, his longest lasting contribution he brought back the Purifiers and made them solid villains, he made Polaris an insane ex girlfriend, he crucified Jubilee and killed off Generation X, had teen character, Husk and original X-Man Angel start dating, he did raise the profile of Northstar turning him into a solid B-list mainstay X-Man, detaching him from z-list sister Aurora and Alpha Flight which made him for a good 10 years, Marvel's top gay character.
All this while trying to anime up the X-Men with new designs, and so you get shit like Succubus Morrigan Polaris, which the artist who follows Asamiya, Billy Tan can't render. So you have the X-Men in ugly crazy anime costumes drawn like an 90's image comic.

>>149204997
Alex's heart always lies with DC

>>149206143
Yeah that ended up being a Loki troll because Marvel had flirted with the idea of giving him AIDS and then backpedaled. So he was a literal fairy who was sick from being away from his magical realm for so long except not, just a prank bro.

>>149207447
>Marvel had flirted with the idea of giving him AIDS
lmao what the fuck

>>149206262
There was some coordination. There were a couple of places where someone would shout for a healer and Xorn specifically, but Xorn would never actually show up because he didn't actually have healing powers. About a month before Planet X's first issue Austen did have Xorn show up for the first time acting so incredibly sinister about getting the chance to meet Nurse Annie's (and actually his according to Austen's intent) son which helped spoil the big reveal.

>>149174441 (OP)
Look OP I’m not reading this thread I’m responding to you because X-men fans are emotional faggots and I can deal with most fanbases except them. I’m not reading current X-men but from what I hear going on it all sounds gay, literally, but what I really want to say is new X-men run is ulitimately boring soap opery drama. No cool fighting going on just gay drama that’s ultimately just “The Days of our Cyclops”.

>>149207507
Wait till you find out the context in which he comes out of the closet.

>>149191405
i agree with you up to the point that someone who isolates the storyline without influence from other in-universe characters must know what they're doing and be more focused in the moral/ethical principles the characters are trying to achieve

>>149191441
this is an interesting point but in the scheme of x-men this happens multiple times without morrison so it doesn't really hit home like you want it to. now if you want to say other x-writers are destroying the x-mansion and resetting the status quo over and over again is a BAD thing, i'll agree with you. the same stupid shit is going with x-writers shitting on beast just because bendis did

>>149206262
>ermagerd husk is younger than angel. young adults have no agency!

>>149207706
youre better off just telling me, I know there was friction because the original plan for his coming out was canned when the writer left

>>149202816
>revitalised the line and pushed it away from just trying to copy Claremont
I don't read a lot of X-Men, what exactly did he do that was different from Claremont? AFAIK Claremont was pretty substantial in making the X-Men brand as popular as it is today

>>149207915
It was a deconstruction of X-Men. He wanted to have the last word on sentinels, the Shi'ar, Wolverine's mysterious past and the Weapon Program, Magneto, and Phoenix. All the old supervillains were done, an extradimensional wraith and an ancient sentient bacteria that wanted to destroy all mutants were in. He also significantly increased the mutant population, feeling that if Claremont and previous writers were going to treat them like an allegory for racial and sexual minorities, they needed to have the numbers and the subcultures to go along with it.
His Batman run reused many of the same concepts/beats only he stuck around long enough to do two reconstructions of the new way of doing Batman comics followed by the very destruction of that to set it back to the status quo. With X-Men he checked out at the first stopping point because he was mad that Marvel only wanted to publish grounded comics that could easily be adapted into movies, which was the Jemas mandate of the day after the huge success of the first X-Men and Spider-Man films. Though Jemas was fired shortly after and that mandate was dropped with him.

>>149177539
Absolutely, even if only for how much context it gives for newer comics.

>>149190228
>Bishop is gay now? that's awful
he's not. I don't even know where you got that from.

I am genuinely obsessed with this run and I don't even think it's all it's cracked up to be, it just planted roots in my brain and I've been along for the ride lol
recently snagged a copy of issue 134 AND the second volume of the epic collection, I'm pretty damn happy with myself :)

>>149203953
Anon, that's not a newbie mutant, it's Northstar, he'd been around over 20 years by then. He's just really arrogant.

>>149207841
Northstar comes out in the middle of fighting a super-powered mountie over the fate of a baby with AIDS, and it's drawn by an artist with a Liefeld-influenced style. Still a better gay superhero comes out story than Iceman

>>149209818
>Northstar comes out in the middle of fighting a super-powered mountie over the fate of a baby with AIDS, and it's drawn by an artist with a Liefeld-influenced style. Still a better gay superhero comes out story than Iceman

That's because it was Northstar's decision to come out. Jean is the one who tells Bobby that he's gay. It's hilarious to me in retrospect that there were people out there who shat on the Northstar comic because of how 90s/ridiculous it was (which it was) but don't realize that the Iceman story is way, way worse even if it's more aesthetically pleasing on the surface.

>>149203924
We don't know exactly what Claremont would have done, House of M happened instead, but the first issue of his 2004 Excalibur book has Xavier noting that the sudden increase in mutant numbers doesn't seem to be a natural thing, and he has a similar conversation with Magneto in the next issue, noting that something that should have taken generations has happened within months.

>>149210079
In #5 of the book, there's this scene teasing that Sinister is "the true threat" behind everything that's been happening recently.

About a year before the Morrison run, there was a story where Sinister and the High Evolutionary depowered all the mutants. It certainly looks like Claremont was setting the pieces in place to use Sinister as the villain in a story that would get mutant population numbers back to normal, but Quesada, Bendis etc, had another plan for how to do it. A much worse plan, which treated the return to normal as an open wound instead of like a return to normal.

>>149202662
>>149202799
and some side books, most interestingly The Brotherhood, which Marvel's all but buried over the years

>>149189139
you don't need a reading order, Whedon's run is only 4 volumes and doesn't reference the other titles outside of happening after Morrison's

Nothing post 2000 of the x-men is worth reading. Some things might be good, but it's just the exceptions. It will return to bad or mediocre at any point and destroy your expectations.
There is one exception and it's Nicieza's Gambit solo and technically, it starts in 1999.

>>149211157
as if the 90s wasn't also full of shit??

>>149211589
Not in a way that broke things forever like the 2000s did. A bad 1990s X-Men story is a bad story you didn't like. A bad 2000s X-Men story would break a character permanently, or break the entire concepts and setting.

>>149211589
Yeah, so we're the 80s, 70s, and 60s.

The Claremont run up until inferno is the only thing good of X-men

>>149207782
Husk was like 17 or something

there's a lot of weird shit in the Austen run, it's one of those "the X-Men simply abduct mutant kids from the street in their enormous vtol stealth jet" runs, but it came after this really dull Casey run about prostitution, Telford Porter and Nightcrawler being a total dick whenever he bamfs, so it's more memorable

he got some stuff right tonally but there's a lot of weird shit too, then again, it's a post-Genosha pre-M-Day title, so it literally has no idea where it's going, Treading Water: The Comic Book

can't blame Austen for writing more of the same bullshit

>>149207782
Pretty sure a lot people were turned off when there was an entire scene where Husk and Angel just suddenly fly off to fuck in the sky in front of her mom and bunch of other people. Because that’s the level of subtle Austen’s writing was. There is a good reason everyone immediately erased the pairing out of their memory after Austen left the book and his run is universally reviled aa dogshit.

>>149207915
Yes, and then he left and you had basically a decade of various writers just recycling his basic ideas with increasingly diminishing returns and when Claremont came back it was horrible because you got shit like the Neo.

Morrison dragged the franchise to the 21st century, actually forced the school to be a public institution, had Xavier come out publicly as a mutant so he wasn’t a mutant in the closet, gave mutants their own neighbourhoods and culture (instead of just being slave labour like in Genosha or living in the sewers), dealt with mutant identities more in depth, made mutants less likely to only be people with super model looks and world destroying powers, steered away from storylines being dominated by just bad mutants vs good mutants plots, breaks up the Jean/Scott relationship and introduces Emma to the mix and for the first time in ages Scott starts feeling like an interesting character again instead of the eternal boring boyscout, etc.

folks keep saying Morrison's run made mutants a gay/coming out allegory instead of strictly a racial allegory, what's up with that?

>>149212617
>we're
were

>>149213180
All the GenX teen characters were meant to be underage, they even de-aged Jubilee at the start of the book so that she was like the youngest member. Then Austen comes in and claims that bro, Husk is NINETEEN so it’s fine, even though at no point had anyone made GenXers age up like that. And then there was stuff like Paige’s mom having a lengthy talk with Warren about how he has the hots for Paige and it’s fine they hook up. It was absolutely horrible and anyone trying to defend it is an obvious troll or someone with horrible taste. It’s right up there with Nurse Annie as one of the worse relationships written on the book.

>>149213379
only good thing about Austen was good guy Juggernaut

>>149211589
every decade has its shit and its high points, but personally I think the 2010s were the weakest era. 20s at least had Krakoa

>>149214519
2010s definitely was.

>20s at least had Krakoa

Krakoa started in 2019 though

>>149214530
eh, I know that but it's still the tail end of the 2010s, it definitely feels like a 20s thing

>>149214519
2010s was bad because Marvel first kept refusing to do anything about reversing House of M/Decimation idiocy and then you had stuff like Aaron and Bendis that wasn’t any good.

Krakoa was also terrible because rather than offering any kind of solid new long term status quo to build upon and explore Hickman was more interested in his shitty big ideas and inane shenanigans and always intending to burn Krakoa down which, as we can see from the new post-Krakoa era, was a moronic because it meant each other X-book was baggaged with having to introduce ideas Hickman had tasked them to write in and it lead to a lot of incoherent, badly coordinated nonsense and poorly written ideas about Krakoa and by the time anybody finally started to address those problems it was too late. It ended up being complete waste and not because Hickman left before finishing but because Hickman’s entire long term plan was terrible from the start and involved so many different things that it was utterly insane just in scope to even do them in the first place. But as we all know Hickman doesn’t care as long as he gets to wank at his big beautiful plot decices

>>149213379
>>149213566

-he wrote ultimate x-men and anyone who reads ultimate universe has no room to bitch about politically incorrect age gaps

-he wrote x-men almost 10 years after generation x came out in 1994. the characters are adults, they've been through enough experiences to be adults. holy shit get the fuck over yourselves

>>149215110
>he wrote x-men almost 10 years after generation x came out in 1994. the characters are adults

That’s not how aging works.

>>149214908
>solid new long term status quo
sounds awful, the whole point of Krakoa was that this self-indulgence paradise was fleeting and they can't realistically run a sovereign nation with all those "superior" mindsets. Hickman would've ended the era within a few years anyway, only thing is his removal meant it had a disastrously stupid ending. Krakoan era being long-term would just aggravate retarded fan opinions that a mutant ethnostate is a good idea, because the whole point is that it's a bubble waiting to burst.

>>149214908
It still confuses the hell out of me the direction they decided to go with From the Ashes. I mean the way they set up the new status quo was to basically copypaste the 2010s. If they wanted to return to "X-Men Classic" or whatever, why in god's name would they specifically choose to model their relaunch after an era when sales tanked and longtime readers abandoned ship? It makes no sense to me.

>>149213487
>actually forced the school to be a public institution
>gave mutants their own neighbourhoods and culture (instead of just being slave labour like in Genosha or living in the sewers)
>dealt with mutant identities more in depth
>made mutants less likely to only be people with super model looks and world destroying powers
>steered away from storylines being dominated by just bad mutants vs good mutants plots
Literally all of these things are garbage ideas that have ruined X-Men permanently because the idiot couldn't see past muh metaphor. But they're ideas that make pseuds think they're reading something with more merit than reading Hulk or Batman, even when you're just getting a middle aged middle class white guy's hot take on racial issues badly inserted into what used to be a superhero comic.

>breaks up the Jean/Scott relationship and introduces Emma to the mix
Shipper trash that just ruined all those characters.

>>149214908
>Marvel first kept refusing to do anything about reversing House of M/Decimation
There shouldn't have been millions of mutants in the first place. Only the mutant villains should be larping as a separate race to humans. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

>>149213487
>for the first time in ages Scott starts feeling like an interesting character again instead of the eternal boring boyscout, etc.
Dogshit opinion

>>149215443
Fast or slow doesn't matter because the issue with Krakoa is the massive amount of retcons, characterization changes, and status quo shifts needed for the setup. It wouldn't have mattered if it ended in 2021 or 2031 because the problem was the beginning.

>>149215465
Because it's an era a lot of the fandom that's active on social media was really into, particularly the Bendis run, God help them. Combine that with Marvel's general disdain for most of their pre-Quesada past making them unwilling to wind the clock back to echo any era from that far back, and there you go.

>>149215518
The whiplash from how interesting and likeable Cyclops had been immediately before Morrison to what happened to him is staggering.

>>149215465
What's funny to me is idiots saying that From the Ashes is "proof" that classic X-Men was always shit, even though what we have now is nothing like that

>>149215443
>the whole point of Krakoa w-

That didn’t really start to be a thing until couple of years well into the new status quo when writers finally began to address and showing real issues with Krakoa. It might have been a plan from day one but it wasn’t ever properly telegraphed to the readers. Instead you got typical Hickman “lol whatever” where you were just expected to accept everything at face value ie every mutant just metaphorically had to have drunk the koolaid, without the writing bothering to put any actual effort to show cracks etc. beyond you, the reader, repeatedly going “WTF, how is none of this even remotely being addressed?” until you eventually just had give up complaining about it.

>But they were being dicks!
Just like any nation super power asserting its right to exist in a hostile world.

>Hickman meant to end it all!

Again, if the point was to make it a doomed from the start Hickman and co. fucked it up. Shit just happened without it feeling organic or moving to a clear direction. Especially when Hickman added distractions and completely needless stuff such as colonising Mars with brand new barbarian mutants that barely got any time to be developed and fleshed out. Or that shitty overlong sword crossover.

Krakoa had all the potential to revitalise and redirect X-men as a franchise long term where some books dealt with nation building and other did more traditional superhero stuff. And it was wasted about stupid convoluted trans humanism plot.

The issue wasn’t the concept of Krakoa, it was Hickman halfassing a gigantic status quo change based on ridiculous levels of needed retcons and massive “just deal with it” changes that weren’t explained or executed by well. Especially when that giant status quo change was temporary and just 2-3 years later it all was going to be destroyed because Hickman was more interested in doing something barely X-men related and then you’d just go back to the old stagnated status quo again? Come on.

>>149215465
Fans keep whining they want to old meat and potatoes thing back and then complain that it isn’t exactly the same as back then because duh it fucking can’t be. But Brevoort also has has a lot of bad ideas and the whole Xavier suddenly has to go to space because Hickman wants him shows how much they have to suddenly change things on a whim

>>149215500
How is it possible to have such trash opinions?

>re: the Xorneto thing
I believe that Morrison did intend it from the beginning, but the 'foreshadowing' sucked. Call it red herrings if you like, but there's too many things that indicate Xorn is a completely separate character, even if you know the twist going in. It's an amazing reveal in the moment, but it doesn't make sense on reflection.

>>149174441 (OP)
I'll be honest, I wish they'd kept Xorn as Magneto and kept Magneto dead.

>>149215598
If you really want to read "it's just minorities, but they have powers, also everyone is an asshole now" and "Cyclops tries to tame a whore", that's a question you should ask yourself.

>>149215443
X-men trying to form a mutant nation/society is a good concept. Hickman and co turning it into a stupid ethnostate with halfassed ideas and implementation because Moira McTaggert just had to be resurrected and made into a villain is where it went wrong because everything about how Hickman goes about creating Krakoa is awful.

Krakoa done right would have been about trying to execute it like Xavier’s dream so you would have humans forming part of the government and society as well and the conflicts would be from people in Krakoa being power hungry and greedy and self-serving, conflicting views and motivations, some genuine betrayal, potential war, etc. All things you could mine for stories for very long time.

But instead you got Hickman slop.

>>149215595
I don't think there was any large outcry for X-Men to return to the state it was in in 2014.

>>149215465
Brevoort misses Bendis and wants him back.

>>149215633
So what era should it have been? It’s not that different from the late 90s either.

>>149215500
I cannot imagine being this wrong on every single facet. the only truth you said in that entire post was about Scott x Emma, because Jean and him have always belonged to each other. every other word in your message is better off not being said.

>>149215633
there absolutely was, people would not shut up about "Game of Thrones: X-Men" being a terrible idea and how Genosha or Utopia were better

>>149213487
>Morrison dragged the franchise to the 21st century
You misspelled, "copied the movies."

>>149215749
Jean and Scott is a storyline dead end that is boring when they stick around on the team

>>149215758
They had dumpstered Utopia by 2014. The comics were well into the Bendis era's O5/mutant revolution arcs where Logan was playing house and Cyclops was pretending like he was doing something important in an old anti-mutant facility.

>>149215894
Emmafags always have no argument other than "it's boring reeeee let my self-insert date the hot blonde chick for no reason other than it being my fantasy"

>>149216320
Emma and Scott have much better dynamic because Emma is actually someone with character due to being an upper class bitch and she can push Scott to stand up as a leader and not be a total goodie-two-shoes. What does Jean do besides being boring Jean?

you can always tell how cultured an X-Men reader is (or isn’t) based on their opinion of Rightclops

>>149216468
>I actually want Cyclops to get turned into Magneto Lite, and Emma enabled that

>>149216742
>I, too, think Magneto Lite was actually a good idea

Jesus, the absolute state of you people.

>>149215638

>>149217096
like I said, uncultured

>>149215772
he did it better than the movies ever could

>>149213518
He wasn't even the first with that. The Legacy Virus was an obvious HIV/AIDS allegory.

>>149213518
Morrison created the concrete idea of mutant culture and mutant pride and how they differ from humans, a big thing of the Morrison era of books was looking in how non X-Men mutants lived in the satellite X-books.
The foundation of X-Men as a gay allegory started with Mystique and Destiny closeted relationship subtext in the 80 along with Storm and Yukiko or Rachel Summers and Shadowcat
The analogy became overt in the early 90's with X-Cutioner's Song, Northstar coming out in Alpha Flight, Uncanny #304 and the Emma Frost Iceman body swap story arc from which the Brian Singer movies took the main inspiration for their tone
And the singer movies are the chief inspiration for the look and tone on the Morrison run.

>>149218487
it's weird to think of the movies as being an influence on Morrison's run and not the other way around.

>>149215638
Brevoort is worse than Bendis could ever be

>>149219018
Well he did directly cite it in his pitch. "The school should be more like the school in the movie" "The costumes should be more like they were in the movie, only with a more casual leather look and a yellow x to break up all that black." "Rogue should be more like how she was in the movie"

>>149219018
There's even a brief period after the 1st movie but before Morrison and Ultimate X-Men where the team is in black leather outfits.

>>149219018
other people's million-dollar development work is the best kind of development work you can do

>>149219372
Scott looks damn good in this fit

>>149215428
oh right i guess we should go by the writers keeping everyone children so you can clutch your fucking pearls about it

>>149213487
>>149215539
cyclops has literally been at the front of x-men from the actual beginning. there is absolutely no reason for anyone to feel insecure about his position in the marvel universe. he is propped up constantly by hot and young female characters fawning over him, and he has batman levels of plot armor. cyclops fans are inherently insecure

>>149219372
what is this from??

>>149207595
They've always had drama, but it was connected to an interesting plot running along.
It went to shit when the new writers were readers who focussed more on the drama and love stories than the action because those readers were either gay or women. Uncanny now it's a bore, but Adjectiveless is ok because it has an action plot while the drama of it it's connected to how it develops. It could be better, but Uncanny is all about new kids who aren't that interesting and Rogue and Gambit reminding us they have sex because Simone is that horny.

>>149211671
Up until Antarctica, everything was salvageable. I would have followed with them dealing better with the consequences of it, but can't tell much because I can't remember what followed and how.

>>149221777
Eve of Destruction. Uncanny 392-393 and Adjectiveless 111-113 from 2001
It happens right after Colossus dies to cure the Legacy Virus
Magneto, king of Genosha since the previous year's Magneto War, kidnaps Xavier and takes him to Genosha and the X-Men go there to stop. In the end Wolverine cripples Magneto and Magneto is left in state you see him in New X-Men #114

>>149213487
>Morrison dragged the franchise to the 21st century, actually forced the school to be a public institution,
The worst that happened to the xmen is to make the school and education a main storyline. You have cool badass superheros forced to be teachers because the writers couldn't let go their school years.

>>149215622
I think it is a good concept if the outcome is that it's doomed to fail because it's impossible to group people together with something so shallow like being mutants and being hated by others. All the talk about "mutant culture" means nothing when you compare it with real life concept of what subcultures are. It's like when morons say that Oscar Wilde is "queer culture" instead of something that belong to humanity.
I think it would have been a much better plot point that the mutants discover that at the end, they have nothing in common and that they realise they miss their own human cultures. that fits more Xavier's dream.

>>149215758
Funny how this is the third time they try the same plot and it keeps failing and they still won't get it.

>>149221951
The core X-Men are supposed to be the same age as Spider-Man and he was in college as recently as two years ago.

>>149222110
Nobody but women and fags want to read about the heroes' school years.

>>149222124
And children.

>>149216468
>she can push Scott to stand up as a leader
So did you just not read X-Men before Morrison or something? Cyke was always a good leader, he even got Wolverine to respect and follow his lead

>>149222378
They bought into the revisionist history that came after Morrison, with writers pretending Scott always wanted to be more edgy and hardcore and more like Magneto, but was held back by fear of disappointing Jean and Xavier, while Emma encouraged it in him.

It's 100% retcon garbage that doesn't hold up to any previous runs at all, but the guys who self-insert as fake tough guy 'revolutionary' Cyclops love it.

>>149222433
>WAH! I hate it when things are cool!
Yeah, we know.

>>149222378
don't call him Cyke like you're on the team or some shit come on dude

>>149174441 (OP)
Good for you

>>149224234
how do you know I’m not a member of the team anonymously posting on this bird? hmmmmm?

>>149223556
>when things are cool
>he actually thought that slop was cool
How are you real?

>>149225486
don't larp it demeans us both

>>149225535
>nooooo Cyclops should be the same Xavier lapdog and run around Jean in circles like he has been for the last 30 years

>>149220415
If you want to age up underage characters you don’t do it suddenly by going “BRO I JUST HAD THE MOTHER DECLARE SHE’S 19 YEARS OLD IN A SCENE WHERE SHE IS ENDORSING HER AND A MUCH OLDER MAN TO SHACK UP, IT’S FINE!!!”

Everyone with a brain can see that’s a halfassed attempt to cover your ass so that you can’t be accused of pedophilia when you ship a character who people have considered underage until now with an adult.

>>149221951
The X-men are meant to be teachers to younger mutants, you dumb dipshit. They’ve literally done it for decades at this point.

>>149222067
But somehow you’ve been able to build nations just around “bro, we speak the same language despite clear regional differences in speech and words!”

>>149222378
I never said he was a bad leader. Illiterate much?

>>149226553
"/co/ doesn't read comics" is an undeniable truth

>>149226539
age of consent is 16 and 17 in most u.s. states and developed european countries you stupid fucking puritan

>>149227218
oh thanks for saying that, now I know not to interact with your pedo ass anymore

>>149226584
Then in what way did Emma "push Scott to stand up as a leader"? He was clearly competent and respected before her

>>149227427
nta but Emma pushed Cyclops to go beyond Xavier's immage of him as the good standing boy scout leader. Mutant politics weren't the same anymore, and neither was Scott's naivete. Together they realized sometimes you have to fight hard and not just sit around and meander like the Professor did, without resorting to extreme violence and racial grudges like Magneto did. Xavier wanted to prove mutants being normal and useful to humanity, Magneto wanted them to be feared by humanity, but Scott (and Emma) pushed for coexistence without eroding the fact that mutants are different and won't be afraid to stand up for themselves should the need arise, not just for their immediate community but for mutantkind all over the world

>>149227427
Have you actually read any stories where Scott and Emma are a power couple running the X-men after Morrison’s run? Scott clearly develops a very different approach to how the X-men need to operate, especially after Xavier is out of the picture. Scott starts to take much more pro-active and bold stances as a leader and doesn’t just stick to being the old fashioned boyscout deferring to Xavier’s views on all matters and sitting at the mansion until that pesky Magneto shows up again. He’s very different character than what he was prior and it made him more interesting. Precisely because he’s away from Jean and no longer pigeonholed as the rules are rules boring straight man.

>>149226627
"If something bad lasts for decades, people will defend it and pretend it was always meant to be like this" is also an undeniable truth. The X-Men being teachers to the writer's pathetic OCs has always been ass, but it's lasted so long people think it's how it's supposed to be.

>>149227218
Paige was like 14 dude

>>149228341
>"if I don't like something that's defined the IP for decades then it means it's always been bad and I'm the only one with the right opinion"
dilate

>>149215633
Inhumanfags definitely wanted that at least

>>149227464
>>149227990
He mysteriously isn't pro-active at all when an evil mutant starts making moves and immediately forgives those mutants for all their wrongdoings. Funny how that pro-activeness somehow always fails to account for Apocalypse, Sinister, and Selene.

>>149229187
When he was Phoenix'd out he did in fact make an attempt to scour all traces of Sinister from the Earth but Essex is always thinking one step ahead.

>>149229252
"Who could have ever guessed that letting Sinister into our country and giving him a seat in our government would bite us in the ass? That wily trickster fooled us again!!!"

friendly reminder that Cyclops was the only one with a brain during the Hellfire Galas and his quick thinking helped save Krakoa but they berated him for it first

>>149227464
>>149227990
This all actually read like a power fantasy for psychopaths. It's because of people like you that From The Asses is a throwback to Bendis X-Men.

>>149228491
>something that's defined the IP for decades
>Things that defined the decline decades where the IP lost it's popularity and relevance
Sure, anon, I must be literally the only one who gave up on this slop and it's still as beloved as it was in the 80s and 90s.

>>149229321
Well he didn't have a say about it. It was definitely on Hickman for not showing him being irate about it, Grand Design Man couldn't be bothered to show people having problems with the Grand Design.

>>149229677
everything you said falls flat because the X-Men started failing in the mid-to-late 10s, and this discussion is mostly in the 00s

>>149230218
Krakoa makes a bit of sense in the fact of the X-Men being like lemmings that blindly follow whatever their leader tells them to do and them constantly forgiving their mutant enemies.

>>149227417
>hurr durr, everyone i dont' like is a pedo
hey anon if she votes she can fuck. cope.

>>149228423
everyone was 14, dumbass. she wasn't 14 when she had consensual sex with angel. go cry in the corner

>>149229437
friendly reminder that rightclops agreeing with magneto is how we get to fascist ethnostates like krakoa in the first place

>>149227417
>DSM5 medical text defines pedo as specific attraction to children 14 or younger
>husk was older than 14
>angel did not focus on that age group
>laws in real life don't reflect anything other than some arbitrary number for someone who can be charged with crimes as an adult

damn what's it like thinking that you can ignore medical definitions?

>>149231503
But they aren’t. In fact they have has large disagreements in the past. Remember schism? When New Mutants joined Cable? Do you even read fucking comics?

>>149231599
Yeah and Austen had to go out of his way to suddenly age Paige so much she was suddenly NINETEEN, in order to make Angel and her boning okay. That is why it was fucking terrible!

>>149229321
Hickman’s a bad writer because none of this was properly addressed? Wow you don’t fucking say! Almost as if people were from day one regularly complaining about things like Sinister and Apocalypse, etc. being able to walk around on Krakoa without anyone showing reservations and doubts about it.

Wolverine is notorious about throwing tantrums about this type of stuff. He was pissed when Rogue was allowed to join, he wanted to murder Magneto when he took over Genosha, like he legitimately wanted to assassinate Magneto. He ran countless danger room simulations about it because he couldn’t get over it whole others were far less angry and more ambivalent about it. But even he didn’t say anything about all the people he would personally like to kill now walking around as fellow citizens suddenly.

>>149231961
Plot>Character my friend! Who has time to show consistent characterization and forming potential disagreements and schisms when there's charts to be made!!

>>149231599
Jubilee is still 17; she was running a halfway house at 16 (or younger, given how long ago it was now) after the X-Men kicked her out on the street because she lost her mutant powers, and she had her 17th when she returned to them a decade ago as a vampire

problem is Jubilee was also clearly meant to be older than 17 for most of that time, when she was on the New Warriors and even before that, because of what Austen wrote in his run necessarily aging everybody up (the fact that Kitty is like 30 with a postgrad degree that she obtained in real-time from a real university and no longer the same age as Jubilee is neither here nor there)

the problem isn't that two fictional characters fucked, it's that it was the first indication Paige wasn't a 14 year old child, which is to do with the way the X-Men like cults, like pedos, continually praise their young victims and force adult responsibility on them before they're ready; Cyclops being totally insane to the point he believed Hope was the reincarnation of his dead ex-wife and had to hide that belief from his actual psychic wife is just one illustration of where that leads (and is pretty accurate to the problems kids in those situations will have as adults despite the insane reasons it happens)

the problem with that is the second biggest problem with X-Men as a brand (the first being that they're now an authoritarian paramilitary force trying to create an ethnostate and not actually heroic at all), which is that nobody knows who they're writing for

the people buying comics as a rule tend to be in their 40s to 50s now; the people buying X-Men comics seem to be long-term fans following particular strands or characters (because X-Men backstory is utterly impenetrable, being spread across endless mini-events and cross-book promotional stories over 40 years)

so why write an all-grown-up story for Paige? ask Austen I guess

anyway there's now no going back for her, Jubilee-style, that'd make Warren a rapist

>>149232079
>>149231599

also, Warren's a teacher at her school, so unless Paige was over 18, totally a felony in NY

>>149231599
>>149231657
>pedos jumping through hoops and loops to explain why their perverse fetishes are "normal" and "medical"
you deserve to be hung, simple as

>>149232079
Funny fact about Jubilee: they retconned her age for Generation X when she was transferred to that book, so that she would be one of the younger members instead of the oldest. I know, it was incredibly stupid.

>>149232079
Jubilee is legal drinking age now. They can play fast and loose with ages, it doesn't matter.

>>149174441 (OP)
>I definitely like it less than the two X-Men books running concurrently with it
what a brave and original opinion anon, do you want a medal for that?

>>149226553
Being a tutor ain't the same than a teacher.

>>149232299
you're actually delusional if you think ignoring medical definitions is an appropriate justification to virtue signal about comic books depicting characters who can literally consent. kill yourself. :)

>>149232099
>warren's a teacher at her school
what did he teach? what class? i thought he was just a financier