Thread 149239869

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>>149239869 (OP)
I thought they retconned the stupid Mephisto Goblin thing.

>>149239886
I fucking hate Mephisto so much and I don't even care for the Peter/MJ relationship really. Fucker also stuck his shitty mitts on the Serpent Society, Dormammu was always the cooler dimensional bastard lord.

And that's it. If you liked this, support your LCS or whatever.

Thanks for the storytime, anon.

I don't know what you're guys think, but I like the art.

>>149239871
will read later

This stinks.

>>149239955
>last thing to happen was the persona being established as a demon that possessed and got exorcised by Peter
No idea how you came to that conclusion, but I assure you that shit is still very much retarded.

>>149239988
I chanced that they might tie this back to the Gathering of Five, but I guess that was too much to hope for.

>>149239871
Ugh, I really don’t want to read this... but as a Norman fan, I feel like I don’t have much choice. Thanks for sharing.

>>149239878
Harry’s lying on his back. His face is tucked into the soft spot where the pillow meets the mattress. He looks like he’s found the safest place in the world to rest. His hair(which should be ginger) is all messy. His adorble lil face expression is calm and sweet, like he’s dreaming something soft. It should be the kind of moment that melts your heart. Unfortunately, his dad is an asshole. He sees how how deeply Harry trusts that he’s okay in this space and his Catholic father is going to sell him to the devil anyway.

I hate this retcon so much.

>>149239886
Blood and flesh offerings show up in ancient rites, but selling someone else’s soul is lazy fiction. There's a lot of spirit attack, demonic oppression, spirit attacks, possession, and curses that bind or cripple someone’s psyche but I can't think of a faith has sanctioned the sale of another person’s soul.

>>149239888
616 Bernard exists???

>>149239888
It’s a relief the goblin showed up pre-explosion. Without that, the ambiguity of these panels would bolster possession idea and that would bother me.

>>149242602
Quest Aerospace too. Before, it had only shown up only in Earth-96283. This is the first-time it's appeared in 616 comics.Raimi continues to leave his mark.

>>149239888
Pour a mocha bubble tea latte, stat. Harry’s underage, so it’s pearls he's getting, not pints.

>>149239933
PSA: Your family unity may induce traumatic flashbacks in killer lurking nearby. Please be considerate.

>>149241094
Even Spencer did not make Goblin into a demon, he just artificially forced out the evil/"sins" from Norman to make him empty as a torture

>>149239939
I love what they did with the perspective from inside the mask. It’s great art.

>>149242602
>>149242713
Modern writers are retards who barely know the comics so they take references from Raimi movies (Wells is included in this)

>>149239977
>>149239984
Murderer fucking murderer Gwen Stacy was just another one of his victims no doubt. He is going to get the chair or rope for this you are fucked osborn fags.

>>149243024
>Gwen Stacy
Who? Her and Captain George Stacy are alive and well in 616

Norman’s part works if this were an Elseworlds setup, but Mephisto has no business here.

>>149239900
Norman might be onto something with his pro-dog bias. Dogs > people.

>>149242996
The story does lean a too much on movie references instead of decades of comics. That said, credit where it’s due: the writer here at least seems to have cracked open a few actual issues. The dialogue works well in the parts that matter to me. If this were a non-616 story, I would say I enjoyed it. Heck, I'd like to see this team handle Norman sometime without Mephisto's dead weight.
That said, I do not care about the Sister Sorrow stuff.

>>149239971
Glad Dormammu’s been spared from this mess. I’d rather he stay cool than get turned into another lame retcon device.

>>149239977
You will avenged poor citzen mutant Gwen Stacy will take care of Norman.

>>149243347
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS “The Vow That Shook the Nether Realms”

Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson are drawing close again but someone has been working to keep them apart. Last issue’s shocking revelation confirmed the source of that interference. Paul Rabin was not coincidence. He was conjured. A calculated creation tied directly to Dormammu himself.

Now with Mephisto already watching from the shadows and Dormammu’s manipulation exposed, the forces working against Peter and MJ are losing control. Their reunion is fragile but growing stronger. And what starts as a soft promise may soon become a vow.

But magic remembers every slight. And some dark powers are not ready to let go.

>>149239900
Dogs > Marvel civilians for sure.

>>149243347
Anon... Dormammu's got an issue in this coming shortly.

>>149240009
Hello little girl. Wanna get inside my big white van. I have popsicles. Ignore that I'm in a loin cloth.

>>149243858
I meant the Peter and MJ marriage specifically, not the overall mini-series.

Absolutely pointless story/retcon.

>>149239892
The man is out to lunch in more ways than one.

>>149244128
There's some strong character beats in the book overall, but the underlying retcon undermines the foundation.

>>149239914
Awful coloring

>>149242407
Why is it so damn hard to get modern Osborns with red hair?

>>149244219
Totally agree. I love the Norman writing here. He reads as a fucked-up, dangerous asshole dealing with some serious mental issues and possibly a midlife crisis while being haunted by his family ties. The repetition in the notebook was a nice nod to The Shining. Its a good way to signal Norman’s unraveling without a single spoken word. The scene of Norman observing his mark’s family, freaking out, and momentarily seeing Emily holding Harry instead was so good. I love that kind of creepy shit. But yeah… the whole selling-Harry still crosses into character assassination territory and no amount of good writing changes that.

What’s the retcon everyone is talking about hating so much?

>>149245292
One of the top 10 worst ASM arcs established that Norman made a deal with Mephisto for power in exchange of Harry's soul all along.

>>149245389
…I fucking hate Mephisto. Why do we have to include him as a major Spider-Man figure?!?

>>149245448
They stripped away the marriage to keep Peter grounded, then grafted cosmic horror theology onto a guy who’s main goal was trying to pay rent and keep his loved ones safe. Maybe it’s just a me thing, but something about this feels cognitively at odds with itself.

>>149245448
I think that Mephisto is a test of Uncle Ben's words that great power demands great responsibility and that he more or less embodies the temptation to have everything without sacrifice. What gets to me isn’t that Peter gave in once to save his aunt and failed the test because that's a human response to grief. The real issue is that the editors won’t let him earn a second chance and heal from his mistake.

>>149245657
They stripped away the marriage because they thought it made him too old/mature, cosmic horror theology has nothing to do with that.

>>149246122
I feel that’s because they don’t see OMD as a narrative choice that needs to be continued for a grander plot. They see it as a means to an end. They see it as them getting rid of MJ. And they can trash Peter’s character to do it.

>>149239900
>having the glider instead of the broom

>>149246399
Wild that people forget the Green Goblin is basically Salem’s top runway model.

>>149239960
It's the first time the guy tries flexing in costume and the green goblin gets tagged downstairs by a nobody. Good thing Norman handled business and put the dude down because his pride would never have let that nut shot slide and Alan’s family would’ve paid the price for it.

>>149239886
Making Mephisto responsible for Spider-Man's nemesis, thus making him Peter's actual archnemesis is so fucking funny. How many times did Peter and Mephisto interact prior to OMD?

I actually kinda like some of the stuff that's been done with gold goblin but Marvel needs to box up the how we got here part instead of doubling down on it.

>>149239900
>the two victims norman thinks about the most are his dog and white woman gwen
YOU JUST KNOW

>>149247448
Older canon paints a picture where Norman basically watched Gwen grow up. I’ve always had a wondered that Norman’s business friendship with George Stacy made her death stand out more in his mind.

>>149247413
Once. 1993 Marvel Holiday Special.

>>149242988
That whole scene with the view from inside the mask is like a homage to the opening of the first Halloween movie.

>>149244219
This. It's like JMD's mini all over again. That one doubled down on Slott's retcon of Emily being alive, now this is doubling down on Spencer's Mephisto retcon. Just like Norman himself, both stories have good in there somewhere, but it's buried so deep.

There are other superhero books where the archenemy gets to be as protected as the hero, to have as much plot armor as the hero, and then there's Norman, where they keep hitting him with retarded retcons meant to damage and diminish him, and instead of undoing them, Marvel just keep doubling down on them. It's such a shame, this is almost a good comic, if they'd just made a Green Goblin Origin story with no Mephisto, and some other reason for Norman to kill that guy.

>>149248010
>Older canon paints a picture where Norman basically watched Gwen grow up.
>and then he watched their children grow up

>I’ve always had a wondered that Norman’s business friendship with George Stacy made her death stand out more in his mind.
She was Harry's best friend since school. There's old comics during Norman's 'can't remember he's the Green Goblin' era where you can see Norman viewed Gwen, Peter and MJ as "Gwen and her friends".

>>149246308
>I feel that’s because they don’t see OMD as a narrative choice that needs to be continued for a grander plot. They see it as a means to an end.
This is absolutely true. Readers' experience with other 'deal with the Devil' stories and the constantly recurring ideas and tropes in them have conditioned fandom to see OMD as a hero taking a defeat and there'll be a big payoff down the line where Peter and MJ outwit Mephisto and everything somehow works out OK. This is why people are running on false hope and so much cope that they're going to address OMD at last in ASM #1000, before that they were saying #900 would address it, and so many more times before that. But to the people within Marvel, OMD was just a means to an end to get the Spider-Man status quo they wanted, and they have no intention of undoing it, some of them even talked about it like being the bitter pill you still have to take if you want to get well again.

They're happy to occasionally make veiled references to it, and to knowingly create moments of false hope to string readers along with, but they're never going to actually undo it unless there's a total purge of everyone working at Marvel, and a total new regime of people who don't need to share the opinions of Quesada, Brevoort, Lowe, etc.

>>149246399
Does the green goblin look cute to you? Does he make you want to smile?
He has his moments.

>>149241094
Wells doubled down on Spencer's retcon because Marvel desperately wants that Batman Who Laughs dollar and wants to make money selling a Spider-Man version of Green Goblin.

>>149245448
Because JMS wanted Loki to erase the marriage but editorial preferred Mephisto since at the time, Keiron Gillen pitched his retooled Klarion the Witch Boy series as a Loki book and they knew fans would despise Loki for erasing the marriage while Mephisto could take the hit.

>>149248790
I think there's 4 years or more between OMD and Gillen's Loki book, I don't think he was even at Marvel yet by 2007. Editorial likely just went with Mephisto because a deal with the devil would just be a bigger, more shocking and attention-getting story than a deal with a Norse god.

Loki was doing villainous things in JMS' Thor, and even more in the Siege event before Fraction's Thor run brought him back as a kid, leading into Gillen's book.

>>149248741
>Does he make you want to smile?
>Does he make you happy?

>>149245094
The Shining
>>149248579
first Halloween movie.

>Iconic look:
Yes

>Psychological torment:
Yes

>Symbolic kills:
Yes

>Unpredictability:
Yes

>Creepy voice or catchphrases:
Yes

>Backstory trauma:
Yes

>Hallucinations:
Yes

>Low kill count, high impact:
Yes

>Stalking behavior:
Yes

>Mythos and legacy:
Yes

>Mental illness or fractured psyche:
Yes

Norman Osborn is the perfect slasher villain. Change my mind.

>>149248688
This is marriage deadender delusion. The story was published nearly 20 years ago.

>>149247413
I see Norman Osborn more as the Darth Vader to Mephisto’s Sidious. He’s still the arch-enemy and cooler by far, even if Mephisto pulls more strings behind the scenes

Funny enough, I actually prefer book Sheev over any version of Anakin/Vader. Chalk it up to my taste for villains who are beyond redemption.

>>149241094
>>149248769
Norman’s sins weren’t demons. Demons are spiritual beings, and aren’t born from people. Sin comes from what a person chooses to do, and Norman made those choices on his own. When Sin-Eater came along, he used that shotgun to blast that history away. After that, Beyond corp took what was found and messed with it. They fixed it up using science but it was still Norman underneath. They were pieces of Norman, even if the story leaned heavily on that imagery.

>>149248944
>not using the goblin face instead
Coward. Were on 4chan. Embrace your inner monster fucker and screw it to the sticking place.

If only Spider-Man comics were good, I'd care about all this shit.

>>149250769
Totally fair. When the writing feels lazy or repetitive, it’s hard to care.

>>149239896
That grin is reserved for two things: Peter Parker and the kill shot.

>>149248094
And I guess indirectly in that one Zarathos story.

>>149248579
Why do you want Norman to be a good person is the question

Joker isn't reformable, neither is Sabertooth (if you ever read old comics which new X-Men fans don't), etc. Norman isn't a TwoFace, that's Sandman or Lizard

>>149249615
Nah, by Wells' run it's very much a demon, original intent be damned.

>>149249401
>Norman Osborn more as the Darth Vader to Mephisto’s Sidious
https://youtube.com/shorts/jdXqz4eDq58
Mephisto needs to get a leash on that creature of his before it slips loose and bites someone important.

>>149251711
I don’t think anyone’s trying to redeem Norman. Osborn is terrifying and that’s what makes him great. His descent after Emily’s death is a good way of contrasting him with the hero. Peter loses Ben and becomes a protector. Norman loses Emily and becomes obsessed with power and legacy. He’s evil because he wants to be but he has tiny shades of darker grey that tell you there's more depth to his personality than a flat "he's bad" cliche. Instead of softening him, Norman’s more unsettling because there’s still a human mind behind the monster. That’s much more interesting than blaming Mephisto or turning him into a cartoon caricature of an abuser.

>>149239896
Sooo… was that the first time Norman saw Spider-Man after the accident? Like Peter just happened to swing past the wrong window at the worst possible moment and, without realizing it, signed the death warrant for his intended fiancée, his unborn kid, and his clone by interrupting some rich lunatic mid-monologue while he was battling a full-blown case of mind goblins? Or had they already thrown hands by then.

>>149252308
How did Norman go from seeing Peter through his office window one afternoon to plotting his murder as an elaborate movie pitch?

Norman did nothing wrong

>>149249962
Spencers Run was the last time Spider-Man had good characterisation and actually used the rogues gallery in a solid way.

>>149253219
t.

>>149253219
Lol. Norman did everything wrong.

>>149239900
It was better than what came after, but I still can’t stand Spencer’s run.

>>149239888
In every universe, Bernard remains a quiet instigator of doom.

>>149251711
Norman was a good guy every time he had amnesia though. Stan Lee didn't write him as this purely evil character.

>>149239933
I like that while Norman still plans to murder the dad, he decides not to detonate a pumpkin bomb the rest of the family because their closeness reminds him of his own. It adds a nice personal reason behind his choice that makes the moment more interesting.

>>149254031
I'd agree that Stan Lee and John Romita Sr. showed Norman Osborn as more than a villain during his amnesia periods. After losing his memory in Amazing Spider-Man #40, Norman tried to reconnect with Harry, helped Spider-Man save Gwen and George Stacy, and backed out of a business deal when he learned Harry was being attacked by Kraven the Hunter. In Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #2, they also made the Green Goblin more vicious and personal. Stan Lee did tend to treat the Goblin persona as a major source of Norman’s violence rather than entirely Norman himself. Steve Ditko built Norman up as a calculating antagonist in his own right, but Romita and Lee explored his emotional instability and some of his personality outside the typical hero vs villain conflict. As a result of their writing choices, Norman’s character depends heaviliy on balance. Writers lose the complexity that makes him work if they push him too far in either direction.

>>149239914
Marvel's hero
>>149239993
>>149240009
Marvel's villain

>>149248944
>>Does he make you want to smile?
>>Does he make you happy?
When he gets the rope for killing this poor guy then I will smile>>149239977

This is it osborn fags this your doom you are fucked.

>>149249652
>Coward. Were on 4chan. Embrace your inner monster fucker and screw it to the sticking place.
He kllled his dog and and poor guy who had a family so fuck you. it's the rope or chair for him.

>>149255515
Feisty.

>>149239988
Heaven help me, but I really want Norman and Goblin to talk more.
I don't know what it is about the situation but it never fails to be exciting for me.

>>149255546
I can't wait to see norman get the rope or chair for all his crimes. Up in heaven harry will smile since he will get to see him get his justice desserts. Yes I can see it now "you sold my soul to the devil dad so fuck you dad burn in hell"

>>149239869 (OP)
>they keep on pushing this shit

>>149255732
Good you see thanks to this They make it clear that in the end Norman will end up in hell sooner or later. And that's exactly where I want him to be. Who knows maybe now Gwen is back she will be the one to kill him, I senss his death coming real soon now.

>>149255515
Depending on the artist, the Green Goblin costume can look surprisingly easy on the eyes. Sometimes it’s not even a “hear me out” situation. His fit is straight-up well-designed and striking. I refuse to be ashamed of calling it like I sees it.

Reminder
We are getting 3 Gwen's out of this
Spider Gwen
616 ditching Stacy for Maxine(her mother's single name)
And Gwen Poole now a mutant with a healing factor and her reality warping powers and 4th wall.

>>149256742
Gwen Stacy has never has possession of the cosmic cube and modern Marvel can't hurt me.

>>149257150
There is no war in Ba Sing Se. :)c

>>149254910
They're both villains.

>>149256742
You forgot to mention the OG Gwen Stacy is now a mutant.

>>149256101
Let me make something clear to you. I do not admire or worship people like norman. No I despise and hate them with all my heart. And what's more anybody who is fan of such a monster should get the death penality in my opinion.

>>149258565
Stay mad.

>>149258703
You are a fool and a idiot someday i will come to get you we all Anonymous here but they are ways of finding somebody. you think you are safe from me? think again.

>>149258703
Post the dancing page

>>149239869 (OP)
variant covers list:
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 Aaron Kuder Variant
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 Derrick Chew Sister Sorrow Variant
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 Miguel Mercado Variant
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 Todd Nauck Iconic Variant
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 2nd Printing 1:25 Lee Bermejo Virgin Variant
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 2nd Printing Matteo Della Fonte
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 1:25 Greg Land Nuff Said Variant
Bring on the Bad Guys: Green Goblin #1 1:50 Derrick Chew Sister Sorrow Virgin Variant

>>149258836
How about I post norman hanged by the rope instead.

>>149258565
Norman isn’t meant to be admired. He’s a hammy, campy bastard who makes the story fun because he’s having the time of his life being the worst.

>>149258868
>second printing
All things considered, I’m relieved the book did well, but it’s annoying that Marvel will probably take it as a sign the Mephisto retcon was a hit.

>>149259413
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhZQ_VRbsQ
Was the choice of the song a political commentary about war on terror, or did the writer just really like the music video (can't blame him, it's great)
>>149259483
You get Mephisto retcon, I get Mephisto retcon, polish pedotroon gets Mephisto retcon, everyone gets Mephisto retcon.

>>149259711
The vending machine in the editors break room will jam and flash “Mephisto retcon required” before it grudgingly spits out candy

>>149259711
The track meshes perfectly with Dark Reign's themes, but I'd never underestimate the desire of a writer to reference a song that makes Tony Blair out to be Bush's lapdog..

>>149259413
>dreams about Norman rocking a crop top
The thirst is real.

>>149258565
I admire it's purity

>>149256101
Goblin's look can go a few different ways. Personally, I don't care for when it looks too cartoony or expressive, or too lifelike in the face. Details of the suit can vary, but I prefer it to have a "mask like" quality of yellow eye lenses (no pupil on the mask, whether eyes are visible behind the lenses or not) giving a dead stare, and mouth should usually be positioned as a rictus grin that despite emoting, looks soulless anyway

>>149260222
I mean, the entirety of Ellis' Thunderbolts is about taking shots at republicans (which I consider degradation compared to his Transmetropolitan days, where both parties were bad, and he even predicted everything about Obama, save for his skin color).

>>149260479
I get why you'd go for a colder, unreadable mask. The blank eyes, stiff grin, and no pupils would make it feel cut off from anything alive, while still looking like part of a costume. It's creepy and very cool.

Personally, I’m into designs that show a bit more expression. Nothing too over-the-top, but I like when there’s emotion in the grin and sharpness around the eyes. Long lashes and defined lines give the face more life, without pushing it into full cartoon territory. I like looking at him and seeing the contrast between the green goblin's pure id and the stern paternalistic side of businessman Norman Osborn.

>>149261101
Ellis’ Thunderbolts is tight and suspenseful but yeah its not nearly as politically charged or philosophically rich as Transmetropolitan. It’s more focused on character and plot than big ideas. I'd guess he stayed safe because his bosses were very liberal.

>>149239966
Not a talent you’d expect from a businessman, but people are sleeping on how good Norman is with a lasso.

>>149261101
Are you a fan of McFarlanes design? It has that classic pupil look but a little less cartoony like you describe

>>149261405
I'd say McFarlane’s Goblin is a solid design and hits a nice balance for me. The pupils make him feel more human, but the overall costume is serious and intense. His take is sharper and less exaggerated than other versions, so even with his expressive eyes, the fit is still threatening. I wouldn’t say it's my favorite ever(that's hard for me to pick), but its very respectable.

*raises hand* Give me all the cartoony Green Goblins! Especially the ones that feel like a modern cartoon or anime-inspired evolution of Ditko’s og design.

>>149261763
Ramos is the most cartoony

>>149261495
It's cool how with how bold the Goblin look is, you can take it in many interpretations but still be true. Joker I feel a lot more strict with, idk why but one wrong turn can ruin a Joker design to me

Why is Mephisto more important than Satan

>>149261763
Pic rel alongside JRJR when he draws the pupils instead of the red eyes are other cartoony GG designs I like in the comics. But I actually like the yellow/red eyes he does, it kinda matches Raimi but the overall design is still classic. I like both I would say.
Man, though I do wish Bagley drew the medieval armor GG a bit more too like pic rel in The Pulse. Also Ottley's art of GG was pretty sinister and cool as well.
Finally a more recent fan art concept of GG in Rivals looked pretty cool. I could post that one.
Also this issue kinda was serviceable considering stuff like GG being menacing and sort of in character but I feel as though the Mephisto retcon by Spencer was something he added so he could take away later when OMD was undone. Like in order to have GG be the final obstscle Spidey had to fight in order to undo it. But yeah that's purely speculation.
Still sucks Marvel deciding a whole issue about Norman's first kill and tying it to Mephisto is a good idea.
It's been a while since I read old Spidey but did GG kill any civilians or criminals before Gwen? Was that his first kill historically, not considering retcons or books after issue 121? I feel like Gwen's death was the first time he killed someone. That's kinda why I find this comic needlessly complicating things. Norman being morally grey, somewhat abusive and supportive of Harry, in need of a breakthrough and simply having the explosion happen is all that is needed for his origin.
Captcha: PAWG4
lol 4chan giving me a captcha describing Gwen.

>>149262216
Ramos is one of my top picks when it comes to drawing Green Goblin. I’m not as big a fan of his style on other characters, but the ideal setup would be having another artist handle everything else while Ramos focuses on Goblin characters whenever he’s needed.

>>149262695
You’re dead on about Gwen being Norman’s first major kill. Up to her death, there’s no record of him murdering anyone else..

What did Alan even do to piss off Mephisto?

>>149262847
Interesting. I looked up his appearances and yep, he has appeared very sparingly before his death and to a degree after. Though the whole Dark Avengers era was when he appeared the most. Blech. Anyway, suddenly snapping (wink) harder than usual is part of what makes him menacing in 121 and 122. They really like to dilute all uniqueness possible from any ounce of creativity they had previously just lime that Adam Warlock issue where he meets that clown that throws diamonds away on that planet. Marvel really do be like that Jim Starlin.
Pic rel was that design I was talking about.
Here's hoping after all the X-characters get in, some villains start getting in.
Man playing GG in any game (my most preferred would be a physics type sandbox one) or most likely a multiplayer game like Rivals, I wanna hook people with the rope like issue 39 and drag them into walls or launch them while shooting finger sparkle lasers. I wanna do air drifts with the glider like when you pilot a Warhawk in that PS3 game named after the titular, Warhawk, if any of you heard of it.
Also Magik in a Green Goblin type skin would be cool, even if it kinda aligns with Mephisto stuff. I kinda just thought of that. Anyway for my money I think Spectacular Spider-Man magazine 2 is an underrated story mostly because of the art alone. It has Romita bring in a style that is elevated beyond the usual issues but is a little below his Vietnam story's use of the paintbrush inking. Still pretty cool.

>>149256742
>We are getting 3 Gwen's out of this
>3 Gwens
>for Norman to get pregnant

>>149260222
>I'd never underestimate the desire of a writer to reference a song that makes Tony Blair out to be Bush's lapdog..
>And reference it after both of them were no longer in office

>>149247413
He was almost responsible for the Clone Saga and all the writer's hated it. DeFalco said, and I quote:
>Mephisto is not a Spider-Man villain

>>149264459
I'm glad sanity prevailed in the 90s, at least.

>>149264459
That’s why I don’t agree when people complain about Norman being the one behind the Clone Saga. Out of all the characters Marvel considered, he was the strongest and most logical option. Judas Traveller, Scrier, and Seward Trainer were recent additions and they didn't really have anything meaningful with Pete so their involvement wouldn't habe the precence to make the twist work. Meanwhile the Jackal might have kicked off the original clone stuff, but he’s never felt like a “big bad” on that level. If Harry were the villain, not only would have damaged his redemption arc, it would have broken the character by forcing him to carry the blame for the baby’s death and hurting MJ. Most fans can agree Mephisto didn’t belong in a Spider-Man story and his presence would have taken the story too far from its roots even earlier. Norman had the motive, the intelligence, the charisma, and a history that mattered.

>>149239988
>Normie baby
Somehow, every other sentence sounds like both a threat and a come-on. It’s a talent.

>>149262894
Mephisto chose Alan because he wanted to force Norman into a direct confrontation with his own morality. Alan was not the stranger Mephisto promised or an enemy. He was a familiar face from work and someone Norman recognized as a regular person with a family and an ordinary life. Mephisto knew that killing Alan would not feel justified or impersonal and killing like that would leave a permanent mark on Norman’s mind. When Norman entered Alan’s home, he noticed details that made him hesitate. He saw family photos and signs of a quiet, lived-in space. He knew Alan had a wife and child and was happy. It made him feel things he didn't want to confront. Even so, he followed through with the act as Alan prayed on his knees before him. After the murder, Norman gave up trying to be human, stopped wrestling with guilt, and buried it completely. He embraced the Green Goblin identity as a way to escape what he had done and what looks like madness after the fact is really a kind of surrender. Norman let go of any part of himself that cared or questioned this and from that point on, everything he did served only one purpose: to keep his humanity buried where he could not feel it.

>>149262216
Yeah, the Green Goblin's look is wild by default. The pointy donkey ears, that creepy smile, the glider, the eyelashes, the bomb-satchel, etc somehow gives artists a lot of room to play and lean into horror, camp, or (if they play their cards right) sci-fi without losing the essence of the character. It's still possible to ruin, but harder to fuck up than others. You can tweak colors, eyebrows, skin textures, and modernize the tech, and he'll still read as the Goblin.

Meanwhile the Joker’s design is deceptively simple. He's iconic and you wouldn't think his suit would be easy to misfire since a pale face, green hair, big grin, and a tux seems easy enough. But the proportions are off or the vibe leans too much into one direction he becomes too edgy, too clownish, too "Hot Topic"(you know the one) and yeah it's hard to gel with him no matter how cool everything else might be about that take.

>>149263173
It’s a sharp look. Love the dragon-style eyes on Gobby and the sci-fi interpretation of the scales is pretty sweet. Fingers crossed that the devs don’t forget they’re building MARVEL Rivals and not a niche X-Men spin-off before the Disney accountants come knocking.

>>149264913
Whether they "belonged" or not, Traveller and Scrier were already there, we'd already spent several months of Clone Saga storylines on them, readers absolutely deserved a better resolution to their plot than Marvel flipping them the bird the way they ended up doing with the way it all ended. But you're right that the resolution to the entire Clone Saga shouldn't have hinged on them, or any other big mystic or cosmic characters, and the reasons why Harry would have been a much worse choice, no matter how much it's what the writers wanted to do.

Norman's been back for longer than he was ever dead, it's always surprising and irritating when you see someone who's STILL as salty about him being alive as they were back in 1996.

>>149260249
Fools by worshipping Evil momsters like Norman Osborn you have ensured your place in hell. And are therfore forever damned osbon fans now witness all the innocent people he killed and evil he has done just before you join him in him hell forever

>>149266571
>self-confessed pedo telling other people they're going to Hell
Gwenschizo you disgusting hypocrite. You're a worse person than Norman, let alone his fans.

>>149266599
I am no pedo and you know it and you osborn fags are still going to hell

>>149266690
This is the subject of norman osborn crimes not pedos.

You remember this right osborn fags? norman once buried peter's aunt alive.

>>149267041
He was in a silly goofy day.

>>149267274
He wanted his aunt to die he knew it would break peter and and he would come after him as result . which only shows how evil he really is.

Schizo really out here trying to make us hate a villain by posting all their feats as if that isn't a core part of what makes a villain function within a story or a part of their appeal as a fictional character. Schizo can't seperate fiction and reality. That's what makes a schizo.

>>149267301
You osborn fags are the ones who worship evil not me. so you are the ones going to hell,

Jim shooter interview, feels sad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsTG0licec

>>149267301
Fans like Norman Osborn despite him being evil? No. We like him because he’s evil.That’s kinda the assignment of being a villainfag.

>>149267764
RIP to a legend. He was the hero comicbook fans deserved, but not the one it gets right now.

>>149268590
Expect he is is only evil due to the fact that he made a deal with Mephisto. Thus that revel breaks osborn fans for all time.

>>149268590
The concept of villain appreciation is simple: your fave is evil, and you like them anyway. Somehow many fandoms still flunk it with flying colors.

>>149239984
"I'm not trying to be callous," he says, even though his words show almost as little concern as the man who mocked the victim while killing him. He doesn't realize the killer is sitting beside him, but he might as well have thanked Norman for the murder if he sees deatg as way to reduce company expenses by permanently removing someone from the payroll

>>149269321
From a purely financial standpoint, Norman has effectively saved the company a significant amount of money. Board members are expensive. They often earn hundreds of thousands of dollars annually in salary, bonuses, stock options, and executive perks. By quietly eliminating one, Norman cuts all of that cost instantly. There’s no severance package, no retirement payout, no ongoing compensation. From a purely financial standpoint, it’s a ruthless but efficient move. And because no one suspects the CEO of foul play, there’s no legal fallout, no reputational damage, no investor panic. On paper, it’s a clean break.

>>149268590
Yep that's what I was saying.
>>149267764
Man I'm gonna listen to all this. Firstly though, it's scary how fast people can deteriorate over time. Hope old age doesn't get too bad.