Why did the west never develop a proper "seinen cartoons" market like in japan? MTV was doing pretty good in the 90s but then it crashed out and died and adult animation has been mostly just sitcoms in the west(with some exceptions here and there mostly coming from adult swim). Did mtv fail to garner a proper audience? I would have liked for the west to make series like GIts sac, Patlabor, Samurai Champloo, Baccano etc.

i just shitted my pants
it smells nice

>>149289766 (OP)
>like GIts sac, Patlabor, Samurai Champloo, Baccano etc.
No talent in the industry for that

>>149289795
Contribute or go away

>>149289766 (OP)
Because cartoons are for kids.

And kids will literally eat shit.

>>149289766 (OP)
Any show in that genre would just be made in live action.

>>149289895
Yeah I know that but there western cartoon directors that seem to want that kind of thing in animation as well

>>149289924
Yes, and a studio exec will just do it in live action instead.

>>149289766 (OP)
Closest thing we got to that are the Genndy cartoons

>>149289766 (OP)
“all animation is for kids” stigma

>>149289830
you first

>>149289954
>>149289837
Not OP, but he's talking about cartoons that are clearly marketed to an older audience and seem to be popular

>>149289795
how does it smell?

>>149289924
They may want it, but producers and networks will just want live action, and we have a massive infrastructure for live action productions as is so it’s easier. With a higher guarantee of returns.

>>149289989
>>149289948
The conclusion is that American studio execs need to get sent to El Salvador

>>149289766 (OP)
MTV threw away their creativity to chase the reality tv market. Also, shows like Daria or Beavis and butthead were still more popular than Aeon flux or The Maxx anyway, so there was always a teen market at play.

>>149289766 (OP)
>adult cartoons are only sitcoms
is this the "evsw in good faith" you advertised your thread with in the other thread? fucking retard.

>>149289766 (OP)
>>149290060
forgot video.

>>149290060
Are you illiterate? I've said with some exceptions here and there but you can't deny that the majority of them are sitcoms.

>>149289766 (OP)
Because it’s prefty easy to come up with plots for sitcoms, especially for those that are on their death door

>>149289766 (OP)
There's cultural context your missing, It was seen as cool to jerk in the 2000s. Being anti intellectual, ghetto, raunchy & "mature" was the emphasis. In the 90s action cartoons were a thing, then they suddenly weren't in the 2000s and "dark" comedy cartoons like Family Guy and South-Park became massively popular. The 2010s were mostly a reaction to the vitriol that existed in the 2000s.

>>149290096
>then they suddenly weren't in the 2000s
Not true

>>149289766 (OP)
Mtv got rid of their animation because their audience left for other shit, they also shifted to more of a female and normie audience.
/co/ shows steal from /a/ all the time, heck even some Hollywood directors admitted to taking ideas from Ghibli and Gainax.
>>149289795
Gross.

>>149290141
>heck even some Hollywood directors admitted to taking ideas from Ghibli and Gainax
who?

>>149289766 (OP)
I mean, that's kind of been happening recently. I would say Invincible & Primal are examples. Also, there have always been those DC animated superhero DVDs that neckbeards were more interested in than kids.

>>149290129
They weren't, athletics and trying your best was seen as "uncool", fags like Howard Stern judged attractive people and was seen as a prophet, it was the era where the "freaks" won

>>149290096
This is an extremely narrow sighted take on the past 30 years of pop culture.

>>149290176
I admit, this reflects only a section of pop-culture and many people did "miss" it, but it was still pop-culture

>>149290022
Adults can't respond to the emotional demand of something with a serious aspect, I suppose. You start having real problems.

>>149289766 (OP)
too expensive and no one watches it

>>149290163
Are you dumb?
>Justice League
>Justice League unlimited
>Avatar
>Teen Titans
>X-men Evolution
>Batman brave and the bold
>Samurai Jack
>Megas XLR
>Secret Saturdays
>Star Wars clone wars 2003 and 2008

>>149289766 (OP)
>what is invincible
>what is primal
>what is seis manos
>what is castlevania
>what is blood of zeus
>what is arcane

>>149290187
I really take issue with you saying the 2010s were a reaction to that. Maybe Bojack Horseman and the rest of the "millenial therapycore" genre was, but it's unfair to name the entire 2010s. For example I would say the whole MCU was an example of something that had a shamelessly jerkass tone even in the late 2010s, but was massively popular because of it.

>>149290072
>but you can't deny that the majority of them are sitcoms.
i do deny, because that's bullshit. i haven't seen an adult cartoon outside the mainstream USA channels you base your world view on that was a sitcom. or maybe one, if you count 'peepoodo and the super fuck-friends' as a sitcom.

for example, this was released on blu-ray 1 month ago. but better cry about Family Guy than pay attention to what you claim you want.

>>149290224
I didn't mention in the op but I've noticed things getting a little more varied in the last years but my point still stands. I wonder if we will trully have a revival in the upcoming decade.

>>149290212
And Ben 10 too

>>149290212
These are shounen, for kids. Even though yes they do take care not to alienate adult audiences.

>>149290242
USA is literally the biggest producer of cartoons so they contribute more to the majority then any country. I know there is animation outside usa and I watch some of it when it gets translated.

>>149290245
when will it count for you? what's the point in complaining when you won't give credit to when there is an active change?

>>149290242
Hungarianschizo are there any hungarian toons like the ones mentioned in the op? A police procedural for example

>>149290252
>These are shounen, for kids.
There were barely action cartoons for adults in the 90s anyway.

>>149290212
>Justice League
>Justice League unlimited
Only that 1 kid in your class cared enough about this to actually talk about it.
>Avatar
Main cast are geeks and misfits.
>Teen Titans
The emotional content of this show is defined by the Titans' feelings of alienation.
>X-men Evolution
Do I even need to explain?
>Batman brave and the bold
Flopped
>Samurai Jack
Jack is a pacifist hippie and considers violence a last resort.
>Megas XLR
Flopped
>Secret Saturdays
Freakshow + flopped
>Star Wars clone wars 2003 and 2008
Literally about aliens and robots. Freakshow. Also flopped
Sure there was still athleticism and trying in these shows, but the tone shift is noticeable. They're all still "freak shows"

>>149289766 (OP)
anything action is for kids no matter how many retarded adults consume shonenslop and marvel movies on the regular

>>149289766 (OP)
Money

>>149290224
Isn't arcane french or was it produced by french but had American writing?

>>149290303
Nothing relevant to what my post was about

>>149290290
When it has a proper stability. If the streaming sites continue to make stuff like that then it's good. It still will take sometime before the market would reach the level of the nipponese stuff .

>>149290363
well that won't ever happen because anime is cheaper to produce

>>149290294
>Hungarianschizo are there any hungarian toons like the ones mentioned in the op? A police procedural for example
there is "pityke őrmester", i don't know of an other police cartoon from Hungary. at least ones focused on police.

>>149289766 (OP)
Way too many restrictions for people to be allowed to do that.

>>149290224
>shit
>good
>haven't watched
>shit
>shit
>good but the 2nd season was shit

>>149289766 (OP)
Isn't it also because they could buy the jap ones for their networks so they had no need for western ones?

>>149290252
Those aren't shounen
Shounen would be more PG-13
So maybe Young Justice, maybe Infinity Train barely count
Almost all those other shows would be kodomo-muke
There is no shounen demographic in American cartoons which is why cartoons are either "raunchy adult cartoons" or "retard schoolkid fart cartoons"

>>149290096
It's strange to think that being addicted to porn was considered cool and countercultural back then, like Jon Stewart openly bragged about his porn collection on live television and the only people against it were feminists and Christians.

>>149290653
>the only people against it were feminists and Christians.
Which one are you?

>>149290678
Neither, but I've actually learned to accept that both groups were actually more right than wrong and were unfairly demonized.

>>149289795
Based?

>>149289766 (OP)
Idk

>>149290224
>seis manos
This. There's been a biit of a resurgence for non-comedy adult cartoons in the last decade on streaming services. Hopefully that's just the beginning.

>>149289766 (OP)
I don't think they even have the proper writers for that kind of stuff. Patlabor, especially the movies, mog 99% of animation in terms of writing.

>>149290294
i forgot to mention Dr. Bubó/Next, Please! which is focused on psychological problems, but most episodes involve the doctor helping the police.

>>149289766 (OP)
cartroons are allergic to good writing

>>149292301
I was gonna say The Boondocks but even then it pales to like Goodbye Mr Despair

>>149289795
fpbp

>>149292479
Kys, tranny

>>149292351
Based Zetsubouchad

>>149289766 (OP)
I think it was in that period around the beginning of the 00s when I’ve mostly moved from cartoons to anime. Seeing shows like Cowboy Bebop or Flcl on toonami marked my awakening.

east vs west troll threads are cancer and against >>>/global/rules/3 and >>>/co/rules/1
OP is a faggot.
Fulfill your civic duty to help purge this board of anarchistic, sociopathic, intellectually regressive youtube/reddit/twitter immigrant subhumans like him who are under the delusion that all of 4chan (instead of just the designated shitposting playpens like /b/, /trash/, /bant/, etc.) is a toilet by reporting this thread en masse.
Here's a link so you don't have to scroll up to the top of the page.
https://sys.4chan.org/co/imgboard.php?mode=report&no=149289766

Because the western animation focused only on comedy and to an extent action

>>149289971
The people who control the money think that cartoons are for kids.

And they know that kids will literally eat shit.

>>149289766 (OP)
The cultural attitude towards homegrown animation in America particularly has to do with how the environment and infrastructure has shaped how Americans perceive things (in this case - cartooning and the arts), as well as how art is viewed as worthless within the economy. America is socially atomized, larger than most countries, and generally dismisses art as something to be left behind in childhood.

>>149292351
>The series follows Nozomu Itoshiki, a teacher who takes all aspects of life, word, and culture in the most negative light possible. The series satirizes politics, media, and Japanese society.
so it's like a Gustavus for dumb weebs?

>>149292633
Shut up Famicom, you always ruin this discussions.

>>149289766 (OP)
A combination of a few factors. The first was cartoons in the west always had that attached stigma/paradigm where they're for kids, must appeal to kids, must sell toys, or any combination thereof. Even though The Simpsons was enjoying huge popularity and cartoons made for selling toys was something that peaked in the 80s and was forever cursed by the existence of Pokemon which sells too much to ever beat, the general public and companies never gave up that singular viewpoint of it.

Another big issue is America has a problem differentiating it's target audiences when it comes to anything kids might think is cool (really the parents and societies fault), which is why so many things like advertisements to actual products like wine coolers and energy drinks have gotten banned. Moral panic and christianmom panic was at a all time high in the 90s when these sort of shows could've taken off but the risk was just too high I assume for anyone wanting to make a show like that. Hell I remember even the Simpsons being under huge fire because every kid wanted to be like Bart and he's a terrible role model. It was much easier to make a pseudo-adult cartoon like Rocko's Modern Life and insert subtle dirty jokes into it or make something really demented like Cow and Chicken or Ren and Stimpy.