Thread 149385654

I find it completely infantile that Superman is not allowed to be put in moments where he has to make a hard decision, even if's something he doesn't want to do. That he must always win his way without sacrifice shows how shallow they want Superman to be.

>>149385654 (OP)
>but le wholesome goodest boy
Superman is for babies who can't handle conflict.

people are still crying that he had to kill zod? his fathers best friend? (until they grew up whatever)

>>149385669
and they have the gall to wonder why people prefer batman

>>149385685
People were and still are outraged that he was even put in that position and not had his own no violent solution. Nevermind he felt terrible about doing it. Superman isn't allowed to kill. Ever.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THE STUPID SUPERMAN MOVIES ALREADY

>>149385654 (OP)
I like that Superman in the movie held back in fights to ensure he could save every life possible even the lex goons

Since artificial population control was established, everyone had to act out the roles they were programmed. Zod said "Either you die or I do." And that Superman stole his soul, which was the same as destroying earth for a fake no-free will Krypton which was a mimic of Krypton. So there was no other response than to kill Zod who had no free will.

>>149385759
the real superman would have put him into a chokehold to knock him unconscious and then use his super speed to build a prison with the atmosphere of krpyton and then put zod in it to contain him without killing him

superman always finds a third way

>>149385814
Well he couldn't in this moment, and he acted to save people. Deal with it.

>>149385826
>Deal with it.
zack snyders stupid solution to "what if superman is forced to kill" is "superman kills" thats the same level of immaturity that OP is accusing everyone else of

UHH, *snort*, actually Superman would just fly so hard he rewinds time to when Zod was born and raise him to be a better person himself, if you were a REAL comic book fan you'd know that, anyways I have to log off for tonight, my mom is yelling at me about the streaks in my tighty-whities again (they're poop streaks).

The issue isn't really killing Zod, it's just the whole movie was bleak, lame, and consistently contrived to make Superman the mopiest faggot on Earth. By the time he snapped Zod's neck everyone was tired of his shit and it was just the final straw.

>>149385883
the neck snapping is just emblematic of what everyone did not like with the movie
its just an extremely mid attempt to make superman darker, edgier, and more serious without adding anything fun or whimsical to balance it out

>>149385826
>Well he couldn't in this moment
He's Superman "couldn't" in his abilities

>>149385654 (OP)
He literally killed Ultraman in the new movie.

>>149385931
framing matters
superman knocking someone away while they are in a tussle is vastly different from the camera lingering on zods dead body after focusing on superman performing the act and building up to it

>>149385883
>>149385888
This. Superman’s no kill rule wasn’t even established in this movie, it was like watching a James Bond movie where he’s capping goons left and right then when he gets to the final boss Bond randomly starts blubbering because he had to kill him. Snyder saying “Superman has to kill in order to realize he doesn’t want to kill” is retarded in and of itself but it’s even more retarded when the first thing we see Superman do in the sequel is disintegrate a guy through a brick wall.

It's funny that this movie is going to be remembered as being the edgy Superman movie when Lex executing the random innocent falafel salesman via russian roulette, and literally laughing about it, is way edgier than anything in Man of Steel.

>>149385931
Not dead jsut getting set up as bizzaro

>>149385931
>knocking a literally-grown-in-lab, brainless clone of yourself into a black hole is the same as brutally murdering a sentient being you’ve been talking to thru the whole movie

1. Superman does not have a no kill rule, that's Batman.

2. Bad writing is bad writing, the entire DCCU flopped for a reason.

3. Making Superman into Batman misses the entire point of Superman.

4. Superman can always find a better way to solve a fight after losing the first or second round, that's been a core of his story style for decades.

5. Superman’s greatest power isn’t his strength its compassion and hope. He wants people to be better.

>>149385654 (OP)
>superman kills zod who was about to kill a family
>nooooo I crossed the line you can't cross my morals

>superman kills ultraman in self defense
>not even a thought about it
Gunn did it better.

>>149385955
Was even funnier since his batman also just killed guys no issue.

>>149385983
>Killing yourself is fine.
>Killing others bad.
Ok, I see the logic. Didn't he laser through Lex's raptor team though?

>>149386025
>Superman does not have a no kill rule
Was nice tge movie even established he would if he had no choice, like he would have been fine killing the kaiju if it was more humane and getting it out if the city wasn't doable. Which is perfectly fine for Superman and other non-batman heroes. I look forward to Sean Gunn having his neck snapped by Diana in 5 years.

>>149386158
I still can't forgive what DC did to the JLI and Max Lord specifically.

>>149386151
not just himself, but a clone that as far as he knows is incapable of speech or even thinking for itself

>Didn't he laser through Lex's raptor team though?
there is a scene of them squirming on the ground after they are lasered, showing that they are alive but in pain

>>149386151
They seemed to be fine, Superman can control it enough to just take out the armor.

>>149385654 (OP)
He was allowed and everyone hated it because it was retarded as shit.

>>149386090
didn't Superman also had to chose between the palestinians and the black hole quake at Metropolis? Did the Justice Gang make sure to tell Supes that they'll take care of gaza while Terrific and Supes go to Metropolis?

>>149386216
Superman did say he called reinforcements though could have been luck not sure.

>>149385826
>Well he couldn't in this moment
That's on the writer.

>>149385654 (OP)
This isn't even a hard decision, Superman was 100% in the right by killing Zod here. Only Batman in his infinite autism world disagree.

>>149385669
>>149385707
Kys edgefags

>>149385788
Free board

the new Basedperman is such a lame duck that people are waking up to the artistic chadness of Snyder's Superman.

>>149386328
Shut up Raj

>>149386025
>that's Batman.
Which id extra funny because he's one of the least lethal members of the JL when you look at the walking WMD's he works with.

>>149385654 (OP)
>spent thirty minutes ragdolling zod around and giving no fucks for casualties
>suddenly he can't move him when a family of 3 spics is to scared to do a limbo so he has to kill Zod because......... JUST BECAUSE, OKAY????
Anon, this isn't a hard decision. This is contrived.

SOMEBODY SAAAAAAVE ME FROM THE DINOSAUR MOVIE

>>149386328
Cavill's not going to reply to your DMs, dude. Just give it a rest already. You don't see Batmanfags begging and pleading for Bale, Affleck or Clooney to come back. They've all moved on.

>>149386403
People were asking for old Bruce Keaton but sadly they got what they wished for.

>>149386361
>"hey Zod I know I ruined your genocide plans and you want to kill me and my friends and destroy this planet but please let's go fight somewhere else"
>"of course Kal-el, you know I'm a good sport"
if this is what you want then you don't understand stakes or storytelling

>>149386403
>"stop asking for snyderverse to come back"
nobody said that.
check again >>149386328

>>149386451
>make no attempts to show superman held any major sactity of life such as avoiding collateral damage or minimizing it
>we're supposed to think he'd be against killing zod
Seems like you don't understand stakes or storytelling.

>>149385707
Batman in movies is exactly the same way. Batman Forever and Batman Returns both had "impossible decision" situations where he just saves everyone anyway by Being Batman

>>149386451
>hey Zod I know I ruined your genocide plans and you want to kill me and my friends and destroy this planet but please let's go fight somewhere else"
He probably should have avoided taking him to a crowded place since he takes him to an empty field to a population center in the Smallville fight.

>>149385707
Buddy Batman is the king if just solving everything with no negative consequences.

>>149385654 (OP)
The funny thing is the gunn movie literally did this with the giant monster and he didn't get the outcome he wanted.

>>149385654 (OP)
I agree. Superman will do what he has too in order to protect the innocent, where as Batman will never kill no matter how close he is driven to it in order to not become like the criminals he fights

>>149386025
>1. Superman does not have a no kill rule, that's Batman.
Both have one
>4. Superman can always find a better way to solve a fight after losing the first or second round, that's been a core of his story style for decades.
Yes that better way is not killing

>>149385931
no, just flung him into Bizarro World

>>149386451
Meanwhile Gunn's Supes actually adjusted his approach to a fight when he couldn't fully dictate the terms in order to avoid collateral damage.

>>149386537
blame Martian Manhunter for that. he could've had the military evacuate the entire city of metropolis because that's something that can be done in 10 minutes, right?

>>149386328
>"People" think that this >>149386362 looks better than Cavill as Superman.

>>149386467
Nta but i couldn't care less about the snyderverse, i just want Cavill as Superman.

>>149386451
You're right anon, Superman just had no way of preventing any of the collateral damage to the city.

>>149385654 (OP)
Nobody says this. Stop getting mad at the strawmen in your own head.

>>149386693
I do like Corenswet's Superman as a character moreso than Cavill's, yes.

Flying looks stupid.

>>149385669
Hi lex luthor

>>149386693
I like Cavill but looks aren't everything for superman he as to have the right vibes and personality too, Cavillman was too alien

>>149385654 (OP)
Who says he's not allowed to be put in situations where he has to make a hard decision? The point is that he figures out a solution without killing people via good writing, as opposed to just snapping a guys neck like a psycho. What we lack is good writers

>>149385960
That's actually in-character for Lex unlike Man of Murder

>>149386741
that's just a building and a truck, anon.

>>149386741
Love how Superman takes to heart his father's lesson that maybe he should let a bunch of people die in this shot, it's that thematic throughline that really showcases the quality of filmmaking on display.

>>149386780
Killing a guy who swore to murder innocent people is the furthest thing from being a psycho. Have all the problems with MoS you want but please grow up.

>>149386976
Unless a building has been evacuated, there's usually people in it.

>>149386995
>nobody could've known if the building was empty or not
and it's that Clark's fault?

>>149386976
Yeah buildings in a city are usually empty, and explosions usually cause no issues for them.

>>149385960
Oh of course, the movie is edgy because the VILLAIN does something bad. Not like that Man of Steel, where Superman is an emotionless robot who doesn't care about people and kills with the color palette of an emo music video which is not edgy at all.

Calling Superman 2025 edgy because Lex fucking Luthor kills someone is like called The Lion King edgeslop because Scar kills Mufasa

>>149387009
It is when Clark could have fully stopped that truck with zero issue. By not doing that he was putting lives at risk.

>>149387009
It's Clark's fault for not stopping the fucking truck which he easily could do without even taking any major damage if he face tanked it

>>149387009
>the guy with super hearing and X-ray vision doesn't know if a building is empty or not

>>149386780
>The point is that he figures out a solution without killing people via good writing,
kek, kek, kek, kek, kek
and kek
"good writing"
>"And then, uh, Superman, uh, magically opened a, uh, portal to... the gummy universe, where he was able to gather enough gummy bears to create a giant trampoline, also time doesn't move there so it didn't take him any time to do it and he was able to save her with the gummy trampoline"
Superman writing is historically nothing but ridiculous asspulls that fans ignore because their precious space goobboy can do no wrong.

It's not a mystery that Superman acting like a buffoon is so popular when "fans" get so up in arms when he actually has to be mature and make tough choices.

>>149387039
>Superman acting like a buffoon
>outsmarts both opponents that were specifically designed to kill him

>>149387009
Coulda just caught the tanker truck instead of letting it hit the building and explode. At the very least, you'd be preventing a lot of property damage. It looks like a parking garage, a lot of people's cars probably got destroyed, if not people running to their cars to get out of the city that's falling down around them.

>>149385654 (OP)
Yeah see the problem, Snyderfag, is that killing Zod wasn't a hard decision. It was just a milked one.

>>149385883
This. I'm okay with the neck snap it's the fact that I nearly fell asleep twice before then and didn't care about any of the characters that was the problem.

>>149385955
Jesus fuck Man of Steel is /co/'s Last of Us Part 2. I hate that I see this now.

>>149387319
Man of Steel, Legend of Korra, and Bendis are three things that broke /co/'s mind so absolutely that people invent different versions in their head to rationalize their hatred.

>>149385883
Did you actually watch Man of Steel because he stops being mopey like 30 minutes in. And bleak? The whole point was that he was inspiring people around him.

MoS fags are pathetic

>>149387343
Cope

>>149387205
Shut up tard

>>149387399
How much does DC pays you?

>>149387390
Great comeback, I'm shaking from rage over here

>>149387373
he doesn't crack a smile until literally the end of the movie

>>149385654 (OP)
so are we just know making shit up to be upset about it?

>>149386633
2

>>149387417
Why should i get paid?

>>149387746
Shilling terrible slop movies like Supershit 2025

>>149385654 (OP)
>Superman is not allowed
>posts an example proving the opposite

>>149385960
Snyder Lex bombed an entire building full of innocent people.

Shut the fuck up bro

the cinemasins generation can't engage with fiction unless it isn't fiction

>>149385839
Accepting Superman can't always be able to win without needing to kill his opponents as a last resort is just as immature as needing the writer to throw a third option for him that always exists to be used.

>>149386972
Superman killed Zod in the comics before jackass. That's literally probably where Snyder pulled it from. Now should he have? Not really but every time someone points out Gunns awful character choices are legit because some modern run by some lib who thinks they're Alan Moore they say it's fine.
Also
>it's in character
I am sure Lex in the comics at some point executed a random innocent person in front of Superman.
But he also shouldn't have he would never directly get his hands dirty unless it's with Superman.

>>149388007
Well yeah, Lex does shit like that to spite Superman.

>>149388022
That's a terrible fucking quote. "How dare you care about our story" - Grant Morrison

I am absolutely sure that most of those Superman 'fans' shilling for Gunn's movie are zoomers who have never picked up a Superman comic in their lives.

>>149388119
You can tell that from the way people talk about him. Superman does more than smile and rescue cats. They don't want a Superman movie, they want a motivational poster.

>>149388133
They just want another cringe MCU.

>>149388007
Ehhh arguably innocent given the building.

>>149385654 (OP)
The reason this moment stuck out for people is that it happens after a fucking exhausting headache enduing slugfest where nobody gives a shit about collateral

>>149385839
pretty much. yes Superman was put in a tough position but the scene feels so retarded with hose that family couldnt just run away in all that time while Zod keps slowly inching his aim to the right, or how Clark had the power to snap Zod to death but somehow didnt think to just knock him out instead. it's a braindead scene Snyder wrote himself in, and tried to pretend it was something profound or deep. doesnt really work for his Christ allegory either, Jesus wouldve found a way to stop without killing

>>149387373
>Did you actually watch Man of Steel because he stops being mopey like 30 minutes in.
yeah that happens like once and he continues being mopey for the rest of the film again

It boggles my mind that so many people don't get the point of the scene. It wasn't just about the family. The point was that Zod was never going to stop until either he or Superman was dead, and Superman had no other reliable way to stop him.
>For every human you save, we will kill a million more.
It was Faora who said this, but it was to set up this idea that Zod and the Sword of Rao are ruthless and unstoppable.

>>149388092
If you cared about the story you'd focus on what matters not nitpick

>>149388394
Everyone understands this.

>>149388394
knocking him out and figuring out a way to throw Zod back in the Phantom Zone wouldve made sense too.
the problem with Superman killing Zod isnt the actual scene itself but the rest of the movie leading up to it. if you watched the scene in isolation just expecting a regular-albeit-inexperienced Superman, it makes sense as a regrettable but ultimately unavoidable choice. but with the rest of the film it feels even stupider because not once do we really see Clark's determination to save all life or never kill anyone, certainly not during the big climactic fight when they were flinging each other into skyscrapers and other populated areas with zero regard to safety. it tries to make a thought-provoking statement in itself but is constantly belittled by virtually everything else in the movie.

>>149388488
>belittled
You probably mean undermined

Synder films are still going to get blamed 5 years from now, no matter if Gunnverse manages to kick into gear or not

>>149388581
thank you, undermined works better in that regard
>>149388623
I wouldnt be surprised, Snyderverse genuinely did a lot of damage to the DC brand as a whole. when Deadpool 2 had that "so dark, are you sure youre not from the DC universe" comment it wasnt funny so much as an obvious truth at the time, with New 52, Injustice, and Snyder all collectively pushing such themes.

>>149385654 (OP)
>>149385685
>>149385759
>>149385814
>>149385826
I'm going to say something I might regret, but I never see this brought up at all. Why did this work? Zod is a Kryptonian and possibly more powerful than Superman due to training. When Superman "died" he eventually just healed and came back to life because the yellow sun makes him too OP. Shouldn't that have just happened with Zod and the rest as well, even if Clark wasn't aware it was going to happen.

That actually makes the Phantom Zone/Silver Age prison seem like a better and more realistic option because otherwise there's no way for him to stop them. They're just going to keep coming back. And if it doesn't work for them, then why does it for Kal-El?

I suppose the answer is probably "he's a Jesus allegory in this film" but I think if it's not a movie about the real Jesus then you should make sure it makes sense in-universe under it's own logic.

>>149389856
he did come back, as Doomsday in BvS
and Clark only returns to life in ZSJL thanks to the Mother Box

>>149385883
>>149385888
This. It was one thing at first, but after the whole contrived thing where the trucker throws some milk in his face it got old fast.
>>149385931
This is also why it's bad, because now they're going to make him kill people in every movie.

>>149385654 (OP)
He's a fictional character, his stories and his portrayals are all deliberate and the IP has a certain identity that people seek it for and some degree of optimism is an inherent part of it.
There is room for stories that deviate from the property's core foundation and comics have tons of examples. But when it comes to a big movie adaptation people want something that sticks close to the core of the character not the alternate what if cases where the story experiment with the character in situations that are not the norm for it.

>>149389898
2034, Action Comics 1 goes public domain.

I'm interested to see how people use the original Superman.

>>149390157
LOL LMAO EVEN
you are getting more of this

>>149388671
Invincible pulled off a dark and edgy superhero universe and people loved it. Just goes to show you that they were just biased against giving DC a chance.

>>149390552
Invincible does it well, because despite the violence and gore, the core story is still about a guy trying to do good. it also helps that Invincible is its own IP. Snyder lacked the writing talent, but more importantly his "subversion" of Superman ended up being disrespectful to the character itself, and by extension the rest of the DC brand. there's an entire generation of teens and young adults now who swear by his "gritty" vision of Superman being the default one, which is pitiful

>>149388022
This quote is so dumb does he not believe batman couldn't pump his own damn tires, does he think that little of batman, or does he honestly not know how to pump tires and thinks it's some rare skill

>>149385654 (OP)
How do you make this Man Super?

>>149386310
Anything above kid friendly's "edgy" to you, isn't it?

>>149389856
A motherbox and the speedforce brought Kal-El back to life. He didn't "just heal" because of the sun.

Kryptonian technology brought Zod back to life but ultimately drastically changed him, which said Kryptonian tech warned Luthor would happen.

Did you even understand what you were watching?

>>149389856
Isn’t superman technically stronger due to the fact that he’s been exposed to our yellow sun for a longer period of time tho?

>>149392320
No, because the Snyder version of Superman gets his powers from breathing Earth's atmosphere, not from yellow sunlight. That's why he's suddenly weak when he's on Zod's ship despite it being in the same solar system.

>>149389856
Because the movie runs on one rule and ONLY one rule. "Zack thought it would be cool".
Zod, despite being genetically a part of the soldier caste and having a lifetime of training, is terrible at hand to hand combat AND tactics. Jor El can kick his ass despite the fact that he shouldn't be as strong a fighter. Because Zack though it would be cool to show Jor El as some badass.
Zod is allowed to smash Clark through dozens of buildings instead of being taken out immediately, because Zack thought it would be cool to have a bunch of buildings get smashed.
Clark FINALLY decides one random family is a step too far despite all the destruction that had happened before hand being permissible, because Zack thought it would be cool to have Superman kill someone.
And Zod, despite again being trained a soldier from birth and being souped up and having superpowers, can't escape from a chokehold, because Zack thought the neck snap would be cool.
Zod comes back as a fucked up doomsday mutant troll, because guess what, Zack though it'd be cool!
Zod's strength level is inconsistent because its dependent entirely on what Zack thought would be cool in that exact moment.

>but in real life Superman would be faced with impossible deci-
Shut the fuck up
It's a made up story
What happens is whatever the fuck you want because it isn't real

>>149385883
>>149385888
This.

>>149388092
if you cared about the story, worrying about trivial minutae rather than the actual emotional and narrative core of the story would seem pointless

>>149385654 (OP)
>I want my stories all to be super generic and use super tired cliches like forcing the hero into an "impossible" choice, just like every other story
Why are edgy teens so boring and unimaginative? Lazy writing like this doesn't make a story deeper or more "mature".

>>149385654 (OP)
Is the Supes ok?

>>149385654 (OP)
Who cares

>>149385654 (OP)
Killing Zod is the easy solution though.

>>149385654 (OP)
The people in power COUNT on no-kill propaganda. The more children and manchildren can be convinced that killing is wrong, the easier time the rich and powerful will have murdering and raping anyone they want.

>>149385654 (OP)
I agree Superman should be allowed to be pushed to his limits and event o sometimes kill. Not in the first movie.

>>149385955
Superman never directly killed anyone until Zod. Collateral happens in Superhero fights, that's just the nature of the beast.

>>149388022
I remember this quote ending with him saying Alfred pumps the tires.

>>149385654 (OP)
Superman is an infantile character for children. This is like being mad Spongebob doesn't have a serious story addressing Squidward's chronic depression.

>>149385654 (OP)
>Hard decision
Just killing people is the easy way btw.

>>149396161
There was also Bruce's short-lived mute hunchback mechanic Harold Allnut.