Thread 149399527

We all know it's good points, but no show is perfect.
What things would you change or fix if you could? For me it always annoyed me how Bullock seemed to be the only police detective in the city.

>>149399527 (OP)
I'd fix it so the 1997 episodes weren't shit.

Not to mention what characters just annoyed the shit out of you?

>>149399531
they're not all bad

>>149399527 (OP)
Give Mary more episodes, and make her REALLY show off her childish side in them, possibly involving her sabotaging a fashion show by forcing the models to wear frilly dresses and bright pink overalls with diapers underneath.

>>149399643
wait that's how she dies? I thought she got her tongue stuck up Jim Gordon's ass and choked to death

>>149399527 (OP)
What was with the redesign? all those sharp angles just didn't feel right to me. The Joker without lips just makes him look.....clownish, yes pun intended.
And what happened to Montoya? As soon as she got a little respect from Bullock, poof she's gone.

>>149399527 (OP)
do a killer moth episode

>>149399814
it was when they started work on their Superman series. They were asked to do more Batman episodes for the package. They were trying a slimmed down simpler aesthetic to make it easier to animate.

>>149399643
I like the Tmnt Batman crossover explaining why the Scarecrow changed his costume so much.

>>149399527 (OP)
There was detective Montoya. She was pretty cool. Also, I would have Selina's splice be a recurring thing. DC really should just go ahead and make her a werecat if they want to keep doing that "more lives than a cat" gimmick for her.

>>149399531
TNBA has arguably the strongest single season of the show. Even the lesser-known episodes like "Never Fear" and "Mean Seasons" are very good. I sometimes think people forget that BTAS had a LOT of mediocre-to-bad episodes across its long runtime. It has 85 episodes in total, that's basically four full 24-episode seasons. For every "Heart of Ice" there's something like "I've Got Batman in My Basement" or "The Underdwellers."

Even the TNBA redesigns weren't all bad. Pic related, I thought Ivy got even hotter with that chalk-white skin.

>>149401555
*Wait, hold on, 85 episodes is more like 3 and a half seasons, my mistake. Still.

>>149399527 (OP)
More of Mary Dahl big fucking asshole

>>149399527 (OP)
I'd have Bruce not act like a fucking murderous asshole whenever Clayface is involved in the plot.

>>149399527 (OP)
My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father. Prepare to die!

>>149399527 (OP)
>What things would you change or fix if you could?
Nothing, because I'm not a faggot. The only thing I'd do, is give Zeta a finale, where he joins the Batman Beyond era Justine League.

>>149401382
she came that last season. There were never any other detective investigating anything. Every crime, it was Bullock on the case.
No other reporters except Summer Gleason.
The Commissioner was apparently the only one who gave any orders, no police captains existed.

I get that they liked to have their regulars but it still bugged me for some reason.

>>149401621
when did that happen? he even saved Clayface that last time when Robin 2 wanted to kill him.

>>149399527 (OP)
Less Joker and Harley episodes, they really started to over do it near the end with those two. especially since other villains got the shaft.

>>149401870
On the other hand, one of the results of that was "Harley's Holiday," one of the single best episodes of the show.

>>149402700
Not to be a jerk but I hate that episode.

It strikes me as the epitome of the writers indulgent love for the character overriding any sense of logic. The General is chasing them with a fucking tank at the end.
The whole thing felt like a bad Harley fan fiction with her even kissing the hero at the end (while Ivy happily looks on because this wouldn't be the kind of sight that would totally piss her off or anything)
and, of course, Harley's redemption is all forgotten by the next episode

>>149399527 (OP)
What's strange for me is how every villain doesn't seem to get enough episodes other than joker, and some are drastically too few like mr freeze. But the only way to solve that would be more episodes or more crossovers which were hit or miss anyway. It's been a while so I forget if he's in BtAS, but more of the Question would be cool.
As for formatting, having a few more arc episodes that are 2-3 parters instead of mostly villain of the week, but that's because of syndication I assume.

>>149402736
There were a dozen "villain reforms" episodes in BTAS and they were all terrible because they just went right back to status quo.

>>149402901
none of the others were legit though, by the end of the episodes it was clear the villain was still fucked up, if not faking the whole thing.

>>149402937
It's been a while, but I remember at least a few were legitimate good faith attempts but the villain is basically harassed into going back to crime.

>>149402878
The Question was in Justice League Unlimited. he never showed up in BTAS

though the same guy that voiced him also voiced Scarecrow in the revamp

>>149402945
yeah, Harley's Holiday was the only one to make it seem like she was on her way to being reformed.
and then we got to shit like this

>>149402971
But even then she does reform by the time of Beyond.

>>149402954
BTAS never had a chance to introduce and develop Helena, Question, or Montoya, and I think that's a shame. I genuinely do like how sexually overcharged Helena is in JLU, but it would've been very, very interesting to see Helena manufacture a love triangle that doesn't exist because Question is way too aloof to recognize how aggressively forward she is, and he's much more professionally focused on teaching Montoya his techniques (much to Helena's chagrin) after she begins to realize the police force just isn't enough for her, but Batman's and Helena's (Huntress') approaches are too much.

>>149399527 (OP)
I wouldn't have changed the designs at all. But they had budget problems.
I also wouldn't have hired that studio that did the worst dogshit episodes like the wolf one

>>149399527 (OP)
a little more bruce/alfred/greyson. a little more fisticuffs. a little more detective and street level stuff that was semi noir, with more doomed romances (with whoever besides batman being involved), those endings that were kind of sad but the good guys won still

>>149402979
yeah. wayyyyyy later. After the Joker is literally dead

>>149403043
As long as Joker's around, Harley will go crawling back to him and the villainy he inspires in her. That's kind of the point of "Mad Love," that she's hopelessly trapped in a cycle of abuse and evil thanks to him.

>>149403238
that's how it used to be
before the comics decided Harley needed to be a quirky antihero and became horribly insufferable.
Though I maintain the seeds of that shit were planted back in episodes like Harley's Holiday

>>149399527 (OP)
give the Riddler at least one more episode. he got shafted hard

>>149399527 (OP)
Just make the art quality more consistent between episodes. It can get jarring going from the downright cinematic work of TMS and Spectrum to the cheap-ass jank of the Korean studios.

>>149403273
Yeah it's a shame that Riddler gets one of the best episodes of the series, an episode where he arguably WINS, and then they don't do much with him after that.

And then in TNBA they ruined his cool costume.

This show had the best Barbara Gordon. She's never been so nice and likeable since.

>>149399531
>>149399643
Both true, but some of the redesigns and slight character changes were shit

>>149403504
It's quite nice for the show not to be shackled by The Killing Joke.

>>149403799
Killing Joke, Death in the Family, and Under the Hood, as well as a few others, are a cancer on the Batman franchise.

Make him Killer Croc instead: it makes more sense

>>149399527 (OP)
No Zatanna episode. She isn't a stage magician, she uses magic. If you can't use magic in your show, don't use a magician.

>>149401861
Mudslide. Hagen is close to getting a cure, and Batman stops it. Weird episode in how it blatantly makes Batman look like an asshole.

>>149399527 (OP)
When Superman TAS started, Batman became modernized but I always wondered what a retro Superman show that took place in the early to mid 1900s would be like. It'd probably be compared unfavorably to the Fleischer cartoons.

Even it this episode was kinda suck I would like to see more of these two, at least in two more episodes.

>>149404113
Timm's original STAS designs were more Golden Age / Fleischer influenced before he developed the more angular style.

>>149404113
It'd be interesting if they stuck to the retro look throughout JL and JLU.

>>149402901
Most villain's 2nd episodes are nowhere near as strong as their first

>>149404176
Joker's got better, his first couple episodes like Christmas With The Joker and The Last Laugh were weirdly campy, tonally they weren't quite there yet until Joker's Favor and Laughing Fish.

>>149404153
we missed out.

NO FUCKING FURFAGGOTRY EPISODES
They're so damn boring, I hated them even when I was completely in love with the show and was willing to defend its flaws.
Tyger Tyger and Moon of the Wolf are the ones.
I know the crew hated The Terrible Trio, but I never got the hate. After Thorne getting away with everything and acting smug, watching an equally smug rich faggot get what he deserves was satisfying.

>>149402901
the Adam West show did that too; Catwoman reformed, promised to go straight - after getting out of the nuthouse Batman was sending her to -then went right back to crime because she was hot and popular

BTAS was definitely treading a middle ground between Burton and West right from the start

>>149404291
On that note, I kind of love that DCAU Catwoman is actually mentally ill. Multiple episodes address it: she has kleptomania, cripplingly so, and it's so bad that in the end she throws all her reform efforts in the trash to go back to villainy, just because she can't resist the urge to steal. It gives her an edge that she never loses in the show and I really appreciate that these days, now that we're going on more than a decade of comics Selina being a pretty bland cocksleeve for Bruce.

>>149403965
I wish someone at DC had the balls to remove Death in the Family and The Killing Joke from continuity.

>>149404144

It's the Brave Little Toaster's owner and girlfriend!

>>149404426
Continuity in the comics doesn't matter. It's all gobbledygook.

Am I the only one that liked Heart of Steel? It's a cool story that everybody seems to hate for some reason. And it has Babs being awesome.

>>149404546
So much about HARDAC feels prescient right now.

>>149399527 (OP)
I'm thinking of watching Batman Beyond, does it matter if I don't watch the OP animated series first.

>>149404663
No, because unless you literally don't know ANYTHING about Batman, you'll figure it out immediately.
Unless you really don't know who the fuck let's say Barbara Gordon is.

>>149403799
It's also nice to see a show that predates the "modern" (that being 2000 and beyond) era of Batman, with different, more bronze age interpretations of the characters you already know. Batman isn't a Batgod, but a very competent detective that gets his ass kicked on a daily basis, Joker isn't a GOD OF CHAOS, but a loopy criminal that can be and usually is outsmarted or even scared into compliance, Nightwing's personality isn't isn't yet established, so in this version he's just a brooding, humorless asshole and Bane is just a footnote. And Batman doesn't have a million Batsidekicks, instead it's just Robin and later on Bargirl. With Nightwing showing up sporadically. It makes rewatching those cartoons so fucking refreshing.

>>149404319
>now that we're going on more than a decade of comics Selina being a pretty bland cocksleeve for Bruce.
Wut? She's been the looses bitch for years besides with King and even then we saw how that ended. Even her last little team under Tini Howard consisted of people she was fucking besides one gay dude. Gotten to the point people don't even want Bat/Cat anymore(thankfully)

>>149401555
Most of TNBA designs have grown on me, the one I can't wrap my head around is Joker's, but then again I think he only got his peak design in JL/JLU.

>>149404153
I miss Barack Obama Lex Luthor.

>>149399531
the 97 revival legitimately has the highest concentration of truly amazing episodes, though. This is 1000% a case of people with shit memory controlled by nostalgia just saying "new thing bad, old thing good!" for the umpteenth time.

I think the whole show is great, but the original run is loaded with entirely cringe-worthy episodes. For every "Heart of Ice" there's like 5 "Batman in my Basements"

>>149405157
>the one I can't wrap my head around is Joker's
Unironically one of my favorite redesigns. The first episode he shows up in is the New Year's/Holiday one, I think, and it immediately becomes apparent why they changed his design the way they did—he's animated like a fucking Looney Tunes character. Everyone else, despite having their designs simplified, tends to stick to more realistic physics and movement, but Joker ends up feeling like a completely different level of cartoon within his own cartoon, to the point that they drop a giant, solid metal bell on him and you don't even question that he survives it.

I never had a problem with the redesign and never understood the hate, other than the fact that people don't like change. Getting rid of the lipstick was a bold move, but I love how much more expressive he is than his B:TAS original design.

Now, the real redesign I can't get behind is Riddler. Especially since he doesn't even get any really good episodes in the new seasons.

Batman eats nachos. Because he's Batman.

>>149399527 (OP)
They changed the art style in like season 4. It's not as good as the original art style, I would make it consistently the same art style.

>>149399527 (OP)
“Tim Drake” would be Jason Todd.

>>149404144
You just crave oppai loli

>>149405733
They changed it to Tim because they knew that if they said it was Jason, people would just be waiting for him to get crowbar'd.

>>149404111
I'm not sure but I think the issue there wasn't that that stuff was going to cure Hagen so much as strengthen his powers. I thought they meant he could look human as long as he wants, BUT he could still shapeshift, which isn't a good thing. He'd be an all powerful criminal.

>>149406514
Also, Batman tells Hagen that Wayne Ent. can cure him, but only if Hagen willingly turns himself over and serves his time for his crimes. Stella's cure would essentially allow Hagen to escape justice, and Batman wasn't having that.

>>149404249
I never got the hate for The Terrible Trio either.
The complaint was that they weren't likable. but I thought that was the point.
They were smug elitist assholes, you watch an episode like that and want to see jerks like this get taken down. I never got what the problem with it was.

While they weren't the best episodes, I always appreciated that the writers tried to have Batman face all sorts of criminals, not just his rogues gallery over and over. You had mobsters, con artists, creeps of all kinds that, realistically, Batman would run into. I know Prophecy of Doom is another really hated (mostly because of the crummy animation) but I don't mind it as much.

>>149404319
Did they say she had kleptomania. I thought the thing was she just couldn't stand being tied down. For her, the Catwoman life was freedom

>>149404546
I never heard anyone complain about it. Are there people who don't like it.

The writers don't seem to have a problem with it. They revisited it a few later epsiodes

>>149406557
A Bullet for Bullock was probably one of the last episodes before the art-shift where Batman was dealing with fairly-standard criminals and not his usual Rogues.

>>149405625
I think the issue is they removed too many details from the Joker. He needs those extra lines and eyebrows and whatnot. Even when he tries to look mean in the TNBA episodes, its not convincing. He just doesn't look scary like he used to.

>>149406596
The did try to bring it back with Mystery of the Batwoman. The Penguin is there he's he's a fairly standard criminal at that point.

>>149406635
But it did have Bane involved.

>>149406652
Oh yeah, Forgot Bane shows up.

>>149406668
still, it was nice to Rupert Thorn back. Even if he doesn't do much

>>149405574
Every episode from the first 3 seasons is better than ever episode from season 4. Even the one with the kids fighting the Penguin.

It's not a nostalgia thing, I watched the entire show all at once. Season 4 feels like a show for small children compared to the previous 3.

increase harley's bust size

>>149403369
I always got the impression that the showrunners didn't like The Riddler, even though they probably gave us one of the best incarnations.

They used to say he was hard to write for because of his gimmick, but there's other villains who were difficult to write for, yet they still found ways to give them screen time. Two-Face was in a lot of episodes that had nothing to do with him (Shadow of the Bat, Sins of the Father, The Strange Secret of Bruce Wayne), they just needed a villain. There's definitely ways to have him in episodes without making it an entire "Riddler" episode.
I remember reading that a lot of his scripts were rejected for being too silly, but how many goofy Harley episodes did they start shitting out

3rd of the show is hot garbage like "The Under dwellers" & The fucking hobo camp episode.

>>149399527 (OP)
NO.

FUCKING.

HIT FLASHES!!!!!


Enough said.

>>149404144
Between the fact he gets to save Batman and the oppai loli following him around, I love how Timm and Dini didn't even bother trying to hide how that kid's essentially their self-insert for the episode.

>>149401555
While I agree that TNBA as a whole was stronger and I don't have as much of an issue with the redesigns as most. (I agree TNBA Ivy is hotter and I even don't have much of an issue with Joker besides no lipstick), my main issue with TNBA as a whole is Bruce. Because it's when he started transforming from a Bronze Age-inspired detective who regularly displayed vulnerability and humanity into a paranoid, dickish Batgod who kept everyone at arm's length alongside muh contingencies. While I understand that was likely the intent, to show years of crime-fighting taking their toll on him, it makes it harder to want to root for him especially with just how likeable he is in BTAS

>>149408180
I honestly think they did that to differentiate him from Clark/Superman, because they started making those cartoon at the same time.
Though I agree, it made him less likeable.

>>149407978
Epileptic hands typed this post.

>>149408180
>>149408280
My headcanon is that the reason for that is what happens in Mask of the Phantasm. Bruce finds out all these awful truths and digs up these painful memories about Andrea Beaumont, and it breaks him even further.

>>149408315
No man, it's cause they were lame.

They were clearly added to please the censors, JLA and Teen Titans is where they got at they absolute worst.

>>149407076
Over the Edge and Mad Love felt like a show for small children?
Are you going by the writing or the visuals?

>>149408403
Phantasm happens before BTAS.

>>149408624
Movie had flashbacks, but it took place after Robin's Reckoning.

>>149404426
Why remove DITF when it basically made Jason the character he is now?