>"It was the first without Chris Evans, so it didn't do as much."

https://deadline.com/2025/07/marvel-fantastic-four-blade-kevin-feige-1236462995/

>>149525003 (OP)
Yes. And it's a lesson Marvel learned too late. That's why they're bringing RDJ back.

The problem is these retards tried to create a cohesive universe across multiple films, using the same actors and writing style and tone. People came to expect these actors, but they’re not going to be around forever. From the get go they should have been making stand alone films recasting the heroes every time and mixing up the tone and writing of each film to be unique. That way people won’t get superhero fatigue, and even if they do, you can start pushing more obscure characters as just regular films unrelated to capeshit, until that fatigue has subsided. But now they’re cucked. People only give a shit about the original actors and they’re all old and busted.

>>149525003 (OP)
An Anthony Mackie Falcon movie would have done better than the Anthony Mackie Captain America movie.

>>149525130
Or just do animated films and then all you need to do is change voice actors.
The fact that Disney would be putting Disney and/or Pixar on all the superhero movies means everyone would pay to go see them.
Big Hero 6 made about 700 million in the box office and that was a bunch of no-name characters with ZERO normie appeal outside of Baymax being a "Friend-shaped" marshmallow.
Imagine how much money a Disney/Pixar produced Spider-Man film would draw in.

>>149525003 (OP)
Oh noes, Kevin Feige is a RACIST?!?!

>>149525217
>Or just do animated films and then all you need to do is change voice actors.

Nobody cares about animation.

>>149525172
Probably.
>>149525003 (OP)
No. It flopped because the movie was basically Incredible Hulk 2 without Hulk. Barely anything was related to Captain America or to Sam personally.

>>149525247
>he says while zoomers and aoomers have an easier time naming anime characters over actors

>>149525003 (OP)
Interestingly even though a lot of sources quote this Deadline article as the source of this quote from Feige, it's not there any more. It must have been scrubbed.

Did they scrub it because Feige was taken out of context or because he accidentally spoke the truth that they shouldn't have tried to carry on with a new Captain America?

Probably the latter. The legacy hero thing doesn't work for the most part and everybody knows it. They tried to replace Black Widow with another white lady and that didn't work either. Everyone knows who Captain America and Black Widow are and aren't.

>>149525003 (OP)
I personally think that while Im not against Falcon turning into Captain America, its stupid to make an entire stand alone movie surrounding him. Mainly because his arc about coming into his role of becoming the New Cap was already used up in the TV show, and while thoughts are mixed on the shows execution, that entire premise of the show is essentially what a Captain America 4 movie would be. That show was his chance to prove that he is the new cap, all the development that Sam needed was in that TV show.
So with that in mind, making ANOTHER Captain America 4 with not much going on in terms of developing Anthony Mackie's character is just a waste of fucking money, the premise of this new film alone could barely make it as a standard episode of his show, and Red Hulk despite being a nice thing to feature in posters is not a proper villain for Sam to face off. Chris Evans's character always had strong leading villains to fight off, Hydra for the first, Buck for the Second, and Iron Man for the third, and that was a complete arc for him to accomplish across all 3 films. They never really set up a proper antagonist for Sam to face off, so theres no clashing of personalities that could make for an interesting story and character dynamic(that again wasnt already used up in the show) I mean for my money they COULD have made him face off more against that one fake Cap from the TV show again, have them fight over what it means to be a good soldier, fight over what values America has, have him turn into more of a good guy. But nah they had to save him for Thunderbolts I guess

>>149525345
Correction: Nobody cares about American animation unless its apart of a big brand.

>>149525257
>Wasted Planet Hulk as a B plot in a Thor comedy film.
>Wasted Red Hulk
>Wasted She Hulk.
>Wasted Leader.
>Waste Professor Hulk and make him TOO Professor when the entire point is that it's Hulk and Banner fused together into one perfect amalgamation. Just have Mark Ruffalo act like Mark Ruffalo instead with no change to his personality. That totally worked well.
>Brought back Abomination just to ruin him in wasted She Hulk.

I understand Universal has Hulk by the balls, but Jesus fucking CHRIST Disney should have bit the bullet and paid them to get him back years ago.

>>149525367
>Correction: Nobody cares about American animation unless its apart of a big brand.
And Disney is arguably the biggest brand there is.

>>149525349
I wouldn't say he was taken out of context, but they are clearly extrapolating a sentiment he didn't mean to convey, same as James Gunn's recent comments about whether Shazam and Black Adam were canon which was spun as him saying he hated those movies when he was actually jokingly saying he hated that they're not canon.

>>149525003 (OP)
It was certainly a contributing factor, yes

>>149525358
FaWS really should have been a film. You have the characters and a plot that ties in to the events of a prior film but aren't exact sequels to it. They could have used "who will be the next Cap" as an actual selling point by having both Sam and Bucky internally debate whether or not they actually want to take on the mantle as the character arc for both of them. BNW was was a meandering burnoff of cliffhangers and characters over a decade past anyone actually caring about them and sorta following up on a different film most everyone found boring and forgettable.

Well partially right. The script was a mess, and poorly edited together. But to put it simply, they made a Hulk movie and tried to call it Captain America

>>149525003 (OP)
Replacing Mackie with Evans wouldn't had save the movie. Brave New World had bigger problems than who the main protagonist is/isn't.

>>149525003 (OP)
I'm not sure, Steve couldn't really add anything that wasn't already conveyed with Bucky.
As PM pointed out the conclusion not using Betty was another script trip up. Sam doesn't always need to be the one solving everything directly, that's what the seen with him, Bucky and the locals repairing the boat communicated. He could have been the one to call her and let the rest play out.

Old Steve is still alive. Have some alphabet soup government agency dig vita the vita ray chamber out of mothballs, slap his ass in it and de-age him to 55 years old before whoops, it blowed up! Then give him the wrist mounted energy shield and call him Steve Rogers: Director of Shield. There, i fixed the MCU.

>>149525003 (OP)
Replacing Cap with a black man wasn't the problem and neither was the absence of Chris Evans, it's that Cap's entire screen presence as a character depends on the performance of the actor and Cap being recognizably "Captain America"

>Sam's appearance as Captain America II is too much of a visual departure: the wings, the goggles, it's distracting
>Mackie's acting isn't bad but it's nowhere close to the "Classic Hero" energy that a role like Cap requires
>Sam Wilson as Captain America doesn't really do anything new with Captain America or say anything new (compared to a character like USAgent)
>Sam's character doesn't do enough to emotionally connect with the audience

It flopped because women who want to fuck Cap didn't show up

>>149525003 (OP)
Yeah.
Doubly so when they tried to make Mackie into black Chris Evans in the movie.

>>149527576
>tried to make Mackie into black Chris Evans

What?

>>149525367
Disney and Marvel are both big brands.

Imagine being worse than Thunderbolts, Superman AND First Steps.

>>149527118
>Replacing Cap with a black man wasn't the problem
Definitely a part of it.

>>149525003 (OP)
>make captain america movie
>doesn't bring back captain america
>instead we got captain "everybody who talks to me be raicist!"
yeah no shit.

>>149527636
It's better than Thunderbolts, though. That movie was pretty boring.

>>149525257
>It flopped because the movie was basically Incredible Hulk 2 without Hulk
I thought the movie was The Winter Soldier remake.

>>149526974
My friend, its going to take quite a lot more than that to fix this cluster fuck.

>>149527636
>Imagine being worse than honestly good movies
>>149527706
>t. No taste at all

>>149527645
>>instead we got captain "everybody who talks to me be raicist!"

>>149525003 (OP)
Why make it, then? It's been 12 years since the last Iron Man movie

>>149525383
>Disney should have bit the bullet and paid them to get him back years ago.
They'll pay billions for a streaming service but they'll be damned if they pay for the rights to a character they use extensively.

>>149525358
>They never really set up a proper antagonist for Sam to face off

They were cooking with Gus Fring. He should have been the main villain or at least the main hench for the Leader.

>>149527934
No they were fucking not. Gus Fring has been shoehorned in as the same guy in fucking everything since Breaking Bad. The character doesn't change just the set dressing. He's indistinguishable here as a character than when he's a sith making evil clone army of himself in mandalorian.

>>149527990
That's his lane and he does it well.

It flopped because it was a bad movie
I get its Feige job to not expose the cracks but the cope responses hes been giving in these interviews is really pathetic
The whole not realizing Kang isnt Thanos level is ridiculous

>>149528090
>The whole not realizing Kang isnt Thanos level is ridiculous

But that actually is what happened according to insiders. Even before Majors crashed out they felt Kang wasn't getting over and were talking about pivoting.

>>149525003 (OP)
>put a big STARRING CHRIS EVANS on the posters
>give the other Chris Evans a minor cameo
Put me in charge of Marvel already.

>>149528177
>felt Kang wasn't getting over
Because in his every appearance he failed utterly in his goals. They could have done something interesting with infinite variations of a single man but they really shot themselves in the foot by not having different actors portray different kangs. The guy they hung all their hopes on just didn't appeal to anyone

>>149528373
Majors was pretty well-received before he crashed out, even if his variations between Kangs were very over the top.

Funnily enough, the Council of Kangs scene was added in reshoots. Had they not done that, they'd have a cleaner break from him.

>>149525003 (OP)
>ITT: every reddit-lite faggot ass beta simp leftoid cuck loser pedophile writes paragraphs of the most embarrassing pseud mental gymnastics that go to every possible length to avoid ever having to state the painfully obvious fact that they replaced Captain America with
>FLYING NIGGER
this board is full of the biggest fucking faggots on Earth, kek

>>149527706
Thunderbolts was fine, I'd genuinely rather all the characters in Thunderbolts (except the three super soldiers) be inconsistent with their previous characterizations and written better than them remain consistent with how shit they used to be. If they thought Sam would become a huge asshole as a result of Steve retiring, then that's technically fine, the problem is Sam not being portrayed as in the wrong when he is.

>>149527934
It’d be a bit of a ripoff of the Syndicate from Mission Impossible, but they really could have leaned on the Serpent Society being this sprawling international network of former operatives who have banded together to wreak havoc for profit, toppling nations for the highest bidder, starting wars to sell weapons to both sides, that kind of stuff. They could be after the Adamantium for a foreign nation like Latveria or even the remnants of Hydra.

>>149528427
People talk about how he sucked compared to Thanos, but Thanos literally did nothing but sit there menacingly for a couple of films then offscreen the setup to Infinity War.

>>149527713
>The Winter Soldier remake
If it was people would have loved it
>>149527909
Lol yeah. Disney moment.

>>149525003 (OP)
>Captain America movie failed because it didn't feature Captain America
NO

SHIT

Someone give Faggy a Cuck Snack, he finally learned something!

>>149528680
Yeah, if Thanos had been asked to carry a movie with the likes of Sam and Yelena as their big Avengers, he’d have also been in trouble.

The issue with Kang was because of their missteps they needed a villain who could actually be the main selling point to ticket buyers, which wouldn’t have been possible even if Quantumania had been good.

Sam as a character in the comics and the film just doesn't have the charisma. The presence. The mix of fierce courage and noble protector. Captain America should show that the tide has turned in your favor just by arriving. Every time someone other than Steve wore the red white and blue they basically spend their entire run going "awww why I no Steve." or "why you no like me as much as Steve."

>>149525003 (OP)
Captain Hydra is coming

>>149528680
Ironically, he was better sitting menacingly.

>>149528680
>>149528727
This is kind of the good thing about Thanos though. He was a looming threat. The developing movies were about setting up the heroes and in the background there's a storm building that will test them for all they're worth. Thanos as a villain was detached from the heroes because he was that much bigger than them. Kang is too personal. Too direct. Kang shows up once and they fight. Thanos plots in the background. He shifts the power balance. What we need is another big cosmic type villain.

>>149525130
I think it's not just that, but rather that there also wasn't a clean and organic passing of the torch and I've said that from the moment the shitshow that was Infinity War dropped with blatant attempts to fuck with the audience and get fake emotional weight, and I stand by that and that it's in having to clean up after Infinity War that causes most of Endgame's problems.

Infinity War happened when we KNEW most of the characters who died had just had their actors contracts renewed, while the ones who lived largely were about to lapse and we fucking knew that too because it was part of the marketing push that these might be *the last* movies for most of these characters.

And they killed off most of their new characters who were *desperate* to have a chance to establish themselves, and kept their older, already established ones alive through the snap like a bunch of retards, meaning that said new characters didn't get their hand off and were absent for 99% of their last and biggest movie where most of their major pillar characters were tapping out, IE it became a hard end to the saga rather than just an end of an era and a beginning of a new one from a narrative standpoint.

Endgame should have been Spider-Man, Black Panther, Antman, and a few others trying to undo the snap and then given Ironman and Cap their big send off, not the latter doing it and then the former just come back for a happily ever after essentially during the final battle. Infinity War ended up being just pointless attempts at manipulating the audience's emotions for zero benefit with zero tension, and it CRIPPLED their one chance to give a lot of these struggling characters a stable platform and one last genuine boost from the old ones moving forward, and it's just been a fucking barrage of flops with all of two successful films since because of that.

>>149525003 (OP)
It underperformed because it looked like another Marvel movie. If they had put more effort into it, made it into something SPECIAL, made it more of a Captain America movie instead of tying up stuff from a Hulk movie from 15 years ago, and provided commentary on American society and politics, it could've been a great movie. As it is, I didn't hate it, but it is pretty underwhelming too.

>>149528663
You could have had a running theme that would tie in BNW, BP2, Ironheart, FFH, and Thunderbolts in that the old order of superhumans and supertech being limited and controllable is gone. Everyone is got on the game a decade and a half ago and it's starting to show fruit. Super Soldier Serums and Iron Man suits are for governments fighting the last alien invasion, boutique superhumans and proprietary supertech rule the private sector and if you think the competition is pulling ahead just hire out for a little kinetic corporate sabotage. What are they going to do, complain to the cops their secret, illegal posthuman development program got blown up?

>>149525003 (OP)
No BWC, no watch

>>149525003 (OP)
This is the short way of trying to say that hinging the bulk of the plot on gay little elf man having everyone tell him how fucking amazing he is was a bad idea, and that an Evans-led movie would have a different, better plot.

>>149528796
I think Falcon and Winter Soldier really fucked them sideways. Cap passes the shield in end game and there's a lot of debate about it but even if you were pro Cap Falcon what's the first thing he did when got the shield? He threw in a museum, passed the good will Steve gave him and then had a hissy fit when someone else stepped up. It's one thing for him to doubt himself and struggle to live up to the legacy but he didn't even try. You really can't double back that.

>>149528177
there was like zero signs of them backing out of Kang Dynasty until that, my issue is why even attempt him in the first place over Doom

>>149525003 (OP)
yes

>>149525130
You're somewhat right, but the real problem is that they would have to stop making movies about this universe.

>>149525003 (OP)
It was LAME. That’s why no one saw it. Sam flies like three times in the whole movie.

>>149528463
>state the painfully obvious fact that they replaced Captain America with
>>FLYING NIGGER
tbf, it's a pretty good symbolic representation of late-stage Weimarica
>mantle of White WWII vet is handed off to token negro who nobody gives a shit about