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Thread 149674397

115 posts 26 images /co/
Anonymous No.149674397 >>149674521 >>149674532 >>149674550 >>149674555 >>149674584 >>149674618 >>149674675 >>149675034 >>149675086 >>149675614 >>149675840 >>149675943 >>149676427 >>149677433 >>149677626 >>149677866 >>149678408 >>149682244 >>149684186 >>149684568 >>149685008 >>149685035 >>149685356
I miss when villianess' were villians. Why is every villianess a sympathetic tragedy? Just let them be evil, same thing with Harley. I'm sick of all this sympathetic bs. Pamela is at her best when she is sadistic.
Anonymous No.149674481
you know why
Anonymous No.149674521
>>149674397 (OP)
Dykes ruin everything
Anonymous No.149674532
>>149674397 (OP)
When your universe literally can't end you kinda have no choice.
Anonymous No.149674550
>>149674397 (OP)
I remember when the Harley Quinn show boldly questioned why there's no big threatening female villain in the DC Universe while claiming Ivy and Harley (And every other female character in the DCU) were just misunderstood and in a man's world :,(
Anonymous No.149674555
>>149674397 (OP)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-are-wonderful_effect
Anonymous No.149674584 >>149674618 >>149675634 >>149675822 >>149675839 >>149676427 >>149676763
>>149674397 (OP)
Ivy has always been a sympathetic villainess. Sometimes it's not played up as much just making her a typical femme fatale but she's an eco terrorist that will do anything to protect plants. She has a warped sense of love and uses sex appeal and drugs to control men.
Anonymous No.149674618 >>149674655
>>149674584
Sixth post, best post

>>149674397 (OP)
Are you crazy? for better or worse Harley is the fourth pillar of the DC universe now, you cant destroy her brand for "good stories"
Anonymous No.149674655 >>149674669 >>149676770
>>149674618
>Harley is the fourth pillar of the DC universe now
Was
Anonymous No.149674669 >>149682375
>>149674655
If supergirl actually replaces Harley in popularity then, I dont know, I will suck a dick I guess
Anonymous No.149674675 >>149674900 >>149675681 >>149677081
>>149674397 (OP)
>Why is every villianess a sympathetic tragedy?
Name 5, fag. Or make this thread specifically about Poison Ivy rather than trying to make it about a "trend" you have no examples of. There are still plenty of villainesses in modern /co/ media who are firmly framed as being evil. To practice what I preact, here's 5 examples:

>Engineer in the latest Superman movie
>Cassandra Nova in D&W
>female Penguin in the BTAS reboot
>Queen Ima in Primal
>Chelsea in Ruby Gillman (ironically /co/ lost their shit when she turned out to be evil and unsympathetic because they wanted to fix her)
The Demon !!M8l/yr+lkFj No.149674726 >>149674841 >>149681772
Harley was never evil
Anonymous No.149674841 >>149675827 >>149684292
>>149674726
She's basically one of the hippie chicks who participated in the Manson Family murders, except worse because they were brain fried and that's why they thought Charles Manson was a profound genius whereas Harley was completely sober when she was sold on clown-themed mass murder.
Anonymous No.149674900 >>149674945 >>149676400 >>149677666
>>149674675
>Name 5 fag
Poison Ivy
Harley Quinn
Cheetah (Barbara Ann)
Circe
Killer Frost
Here's 5 more
Silver Swan
Enchantress
Scarlett Witch
Ghost (Ava Starr)
Songbird
Oh and Mankiller
Also Carol Danvers
Now what faggot? Wanna derail the thread over bullshit? Or stick to the fact that sympathetic villianess' suck ass? Better yet go into autistic detail on how every single one of these women should be redeemed, you little white knight.
Anonymous No.149674935
But thats the point of batman villains, you choose the wrong webcomic. The only batman villain who has the permission to be evil evil is the joker, he's the representation of chaos.
Anonymous No.149674945 >>149674991
>>149674900
>Better yet go into autistic detail on how every single one of these women should be redeemed, you little white knight.
>if you go against my victim narrative and acknowledge that unsympathetic villainesses (which is allegedly the thing I want) exist u r a white knight
You just really wanna argue with someone over this regardless of what they say huh?
Anonymous No.149674991 >>149675024
>>149674945
>loses argument
>"jokes on you, I was just pretending on being retarded"
Concession accepted
Anonymous No.149675024 >>149675101
>>149674991
What do you actually want?
Anonymous No.149675034
>>149674397 (OP)
>why is every villianess a sympathetic tragedy
Ask Azulfags and Jokerfaggots.
Anonymous No.149675086
>>149674397 (OP)
maybe we all were to harsh on villainess, I kinda wish we got a eris.
Anonymous No.149675101
>>149675024
Huh. OP called their win. I could stand to care right now actually.

You have the floor, anon and I want to read your opinion. Antagonism not necessary, we are genuinely interested.
Anonymous No.149675614 >>149684947
>>149674397 (OP)
Roxy Rocket deserves a spot on the Justice Leaguew
Anonymous No.149675634 >>149675750
>>149674584
Maybe to you, but not to me.
Anonymous No.149675681 >>149684521
>>149674675
Cassandra Nova was played for sympathy for a moment with that whole "if Xavier knew he would've tried to rescue you" thing.
Anonymous No.149675750 >>149675841
>>149675634
What is she to you? NTA btw
Anonymous No.149675808 >>149675852 >>149675946 >>149676561
Anonymous No.149675822
>>149674584
She existed for almost 40 years before this you disingenuous faggot
Anonymous No.149675827 >>149676267
>>149674841
Seriously. Absolutely wild that they really tried to push her as being redeemed or redeemable. She's a massive piece of shit.
Anonymous No.149675839 >>149682244
>>149674584
>Ivy has always been a sympathetic villainess.
she wants all humans to die
Anonymous No.149675840
>>149674397 (OP)
>umm actually the ecoterrorist who murders people by kissing them is a good guy
Anonymous No.149675841 >>149676075
>>149675750
Not sympathetic at all just a literal monster from her actions and outlook on life.
Anonymous No.149675852
>>149675808
Very heroic! You slay queen!
Anonymous No.149675943 >>149676952
>>149674397 (OP)
Blame Wicked and the play blowing up in popularity in 2003. Women have always flirted with the concept of "what if the female villain didn't do anything wrong and was actually innocent" but Wicked set the stage for shit like Cruella and the newfound sentiment to poorly make female villains excessively sympathetic/tragic, removing them of edge, and turning them into dindus.

Part of this is due to 9/11.

>When 9/11 hit, men reacted to it in escapist media by turning their characters into grim and dark edgy anti-heroes. They were either rebelling against the system or working for it

>but women proceeded to go "erm, I actually did NOTHING WRONG and I'm actually the victim in all of this"

If you want an example of this in action, just compare Weeds to Breaking Bad.
Anonymous No.149675946
>>149675808
Haven't looked up the article OP... screenshotted

Guessing the argument is one which makes sense to anyone who remembers "when man separated himself from nature" from an /x/ comic, making Ivy kino
Anonymous No.149676075 >>149678393
>>149675841
So just joker with plants?
Anonymous No.149676096 >>149676298 >>149677346
Ironic how they pushed the ecoterrorist part so far that people forget she started as a cosplayer who wanted Batman to notice her.
Anonymous No.149676267
>>149675827
Having her pal around with Catwoman was a mistake. Having her be a free woman in Return of the Joker was a mistake.
Anonymous No.149676298 >>149676306
>>149676096
Cosplayer as what?
Anonymous No.149676306 >>149676340
>>149676298
As a villain for Batman.
Anonymous No.149676340 >>149676384
>>149676306
Did she have any powers or gimmicks back then or was she just do8ng regular crimes for attention?
Anonymous No.149676384 >>149676475
>>149676340
She wanted to prove she was a world class criminal. She also was smitten with Bruce Wayne AND Batman.
Anonymous No.149676400
>>149674900
>Enchantress
She's not really sympathetic, she's always been somewhere between amoral and evil, but she's just so horny for Thor that he can tame her to some extent.

>Scarlett Witch
The consequence of X-fags telling each other to never read 1960s X-Men is that we have people, even actual Marvel writers like Jason Aaron, who genuinely believe Wanda and Pietro were villains. They weren't, they were good people with heroic natures, who were stuck within a group of villains because they owed Magneto their lives. They kept trying to undermine his plans and stop him from killing people, and joined the Avengers shortly after escaping from him.

If you're judging Wanda by a bald retard having her suddenly go crazy in 2004, or by the MCU thinking that copying that garbage was a good idea, you're as retarded as Bendis was.

>Ghost (Ava Starr)
It's not so much that she was awful herself, it's more of a "what we could have had" situation, where comic Ghost is a much better villain we could have had instead, AND MCU Ghost's dad is Egghead, an actual Ant-Man villain we could have had instead.

>Songbird
She was just a minor villain for years, and on the original Thunderbolts, found she liked being a hero better than a villain, and changed her ways. Nobody was trying to write her as sympathetic until she actually started trying to be a better person. IIRC she eventually got some backstory to explain why she became a villain, but it was years into the original Thunderbolts book.
Anonymous No.149676427 >>149676632 >>149676952
>>149674397 (OP)
>Why is every villianess a sympathetic tragedy?
Cause we live in a matriarchal female supermacist society where women are habitually not seen as accountable for anything they do. No matter what evil act they commit, they are the victims somehow. It is insane, of course.

>>149674584
>Ivy has always been a sympathetic villainess
No the fuck she's not. Any bitch who puts the lives of trees above the lives of people is evil, no ifs and buts.
Anonymous No.149676475
>>149676384
But did she have powers and/or gimmicsk then too?
Anonymous No.149676486 >>149676513 >>149677346
Anyone know which comic it was that showed poison ivy looked incredibly plain and it was just her pheromones that made others view her as attractive. It ended with her locked up in Arkham telling a nurse Batman loved her and looking like a thin, pathetic carrot top. A anon posted it a few years ago but for the life of me I can’t remember the issue
Anonymous No.149676488 >>149676591 >>149676656 >>149676952 >>149677685 >>149677847
Of note: male villains almost never get redemption arcs despite there being far more of them. If anyone gets redeemed, it's usually a woman, and yes, it's BECAUSE she's a woman.
Anonymous No.149676513 >>149676525
>>149676486
Batman Legends of the Dark Knight 42-43: Hot House.
Anonymous No.149676525
>>149676513
Thank you so damn much man!
Anonymous No.149676561
>>149675808
To give slight benefit to the doubt, evey comic villain has one moment where a writer makes them do something more evil then they usually do. Though in this instance Poison Ivy has killed people before and this is nothing new for her.
Anonymous No.149676591
>>149676488
Absorbing Man has been constantly teased with one by writers that actually like him but he usually slips back into villainy by the other writer just using the character to use him. Shocker in an Uncanny Avengers issue got hinted at having good guy potential by Rogue before he went back to being a criminal and everyone knows about Sandman being an Avenger before getting hit hard with character regression that has just stuck.
Anonymous No.149676626
The lesson is that if you want to be on a superhero team, just be a hot and interesting villain until you are noticed. It's the boring normies that aren't allowed to join. If they wanted to join, they should have murdered more.
Anonymous No.149676630
I don't know how far gone she's now, but at some point or other she also protected the people inhabiting endangered habitats, or at least was cool with them. Didn't she take a lot of kids under her wing in NML?
Anonymous No.149676632
>>149676427
>No the fuck she's not. Any bitch who puts the lives of trees above the lives of people is evil, no ifs and buts.
Imagine missing the entire point this hard.
Anonymous No.149676656
>>149676488
Anon, Magneto is like patient zero for the entire "what if the villain was the real hero all along?" unearned, undeserved redemption arc trope, despite being a supremacist terrorist who kept trying to kill millions.

And then when he reverted back to being a villain and actually succeeded in killing millions, he got ANOTHER completely undeserved redemption.

Most of the other villain redemptions we see are because writers want their own Magneto, even though the original is kind of awful.
Anonymous No.149676763
>>149674584
No she wasn't and this push to try and make her one has always been disgusting.
Anonymous No.149676770 >>149677330 >>149677453
>>149674655
Who the fuck likes Supergirl enough to think making her a pillar of the DCU would be a good idea?
Anonymous No.149676952 >>149677806 >>149678097 >>149681856 >>149682040
There's a LOT of people in this thread who are making so obvious they're incels (ex. >>149676488, >>149676427, and >>149675943). If a woman has ever described you as "ick" (and they probably do), this posy applies to you
Anonymous No.149677081
>>149674675
>because they wanted to fix her
As someone who was there, it was because of the accidental(?) creepy pro-racism messaging the writers were too busy seething over Stacy, years after high school, to recognize or care they wrote.
Anonymous No.149677330
>>149676770
I like Supergirl
Anonymous No.149677346
>>149676096
>>149676486
>we could have had a Poison Ivy who's a 5/10 femcel loser who's profoundly insecure and wants to be known as Batman's greatest and also most beautiful enemy
Anonymous No.149677433
>>149674397 (OP)
Women can't actually be evil unless they're hurting other women because any time a woman does something bad it's actually a man's fault for making her do the bad thing
Anonymous No.149677453 >>149677622
>>149676770
After her appearance as a girlfailure at the end of Superman? Everyone
Anonymous No.149677622
>>149677453
Speak for yourself.
Anonymous No.149677626
>>149674397 (OP)
Most major villains have a sympathetic backstory anon
Anonymous No.149677658
In fairness, Ivy has gone from misandrist serial killer to eco-warrior for a while now and DC has plenty of acceptable targets for someone like that.
Anonymous No.149677666 >>149677783
>>149674900
>Scarlett Witch
Both Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were played as unwilling members of Magneto's brotherhood from the moment they were introduced
Anonymous No.149677685
>>149676488
Not true, Josh Williamson redeems literally every villain he touches; man or woman
Anonymous No.149677783
>>149677666
I think there are a lot of casuals who think they were villains because of the legacy of Ultimate Marvel and X-Men Evolution both mischaracterizing them as very willing villains, and the Wolverine cartoon doing the same thing again with Pietro. Nobody's reading 1960s comics that show what actually happened, they just assume the cartoons and AUs are accurate.
Anonymous No.149677806
>>149676952
I stand by Harley being an irredeemable piece of shit but yes, it's rather obvious this whole thread is infested with incels.
Anonymous No.149677847 >>149677928 >>149677970 >>149678157
>>149676488
>male villains almost never get redemption arcs
There are plenty of male villains who got redemption arcs
>Magneto
>Venom
>Loki
>Clayface
>Red Hulk
>Wonder Man
>Winter Soldier
>Morbius
>Man-Bat
>Sandman
>Deadpool
Anonymous No.149677866 >>149677942 >>149678097 >>149678288
>>149674397 (OP)
>same thing with Harley
I see complaining about this with Ivy but Harley has been sympathetic since she was created in BTAS
Anonymous No.149677928 >>149678010
>>149677847
True, but I'm not sure Winter Soldier is a fair inclusion. Captain America's kid sidekick got turned into a brainwashed cyborg assassin and was forced to do bad things while brainwashed, and had to live with the consequences after he finally had his memory and free will restored.
Anonymous No.149677942 >>149678010
>>149677866
Harley willingly chose and fall in love with a psychopath.
Anonymous No.149677953 >>149680056
Anonymous No.149677970 >>149678172
>>149677847
It's so funny how that incel posted that shit when a good chunk of Marvel heroes started off as bad guys. Like people don't remember Hawkeye or Quicksilver were originally antagonists.
Anonymous No.149678010
>>149677942
Sure but she is still portrayed sympathetically a fair amount of times
>>149677928
Yeah that's fair. Funnily enough I didn't include Red Hood for that exact reason.
Anonymous No.149678097
>>149677866
The idea was always horseshit.
>>149676952
Not an argument.
Anonymous No.149678157 >>149678181 >>149678451
>>149677847
Male villains only get redemption/reformation/repentance arcs because the end result is always increased popularity with women. Women love "bad boys" and if they can tame him and make a good man out of him, even better.

Female villains don't really get the same treatment because men would prefer that the female villains either stay evil (and keep their appeal), give up evil in favor of settling down with a man, or find a fellow evil man to fall in love with. Women on the other hand keep going for the Wicked/modern Harley Quinn strategy of "she was THE VICTIM you guys :("

It's why you could never adapt a comics-accurate Deadpool as a woman in film, or give us a female spin on Walter White or Patrick Bateman. The men would be comfortable with seeing the women being evil while the women in the audience would squirm due to their inability to stop themselves from projecting onto every female character.
Anonymous No.149678172 >>149678225
>>149677970
To be fair Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch were all victims of circumstance and didn't actually want to be villains
Anonymous No.149678181
>>149678157
Anonymous No.149678225
>>149678172
Some days is just not listening to mutant hitler
Anonymous No.149678288 >>149678593 >>149679170 >>149681530 >>149684159
>>149677866
The problem with Harley in BTAS is that Timm/Dini never could decide how sympathetic of a character Harley was. The sympathy varies depending on the episode, and the show never makes it clear if Harley is more of a moronic victim or more of a willing and aware participant in evil. Justice League and Batman Beyond make Harley look worse. That's not even getting into the comic adaptation of Mad Love which muddies the waters by implying that Harley's poor judgement of the Joker at Arkham was due to Harley being ill-equipped as a psychiatrist...because Harley slept her way through college.

So fans came away with two very different conclusions: either Harley is fully aware of the shit she's gotten into (note that as an old woman, she does a poor job of raising the DeeDee twins), or Harley is naive and acting like a beaten housewife/prostitute where she's dissociating and relying on coping mechanisms.

>Note that Poison Ivy was never see as a healthier/wiser alternative to The Joker in BTAS for Harley, as Ivy is shown to be controlling towards Harley while in the BTAS comics, she even strangles her.

The following Batman series would make the Harley/Joker relationship more of a Team Rocket/Gomez and Morticia "two freaks in love" dynamic and ditch the abuse angle.
Anonymous No.149678370 >>149678492
How often is this cunt portrayed as sympathetic? She's been around for a long time, so maybe a couple times, but for sure, sympathetic Ivy has beenb done much, much more often. I can't think of a more irredeemably evil, straightforward female villain.
Anonymous No.149678393
>>149676075
Why would I give a shit about the joker?
Anonymous No.149678408
>>149674397 (OP)
The issue with Ivy being a sympathetic villain is really a problem rooted in the change of direction to make her an eco-terrorist rather than a deranged and privileged femme fatale who favors plants over people. Classic Ivy worked because she was functionally no different than any other greedy murderous villain with a gimmick. BTAS pulled heavily from her earliest appearances, and didn't stop with TNBA.

Making Harley into a plant woman eco-terrorist/environmentalist hero was an inspired choice, but neither option (Harley as a pro-eco terrorist or hero) is truly compatible with the original premise of Harley, let alone each other. In a different world, classic Ivy, 90s Ivy, and modern Ivy would all be different characters.
Anonymous No.149678451
>>149678157
>Male villains only get redemption/reformation/repentance arcs because the end result is always increased popularity with women.
Considering the core audience for cape comics was traditionally boys, this isn't remotely true. Villains like Venom and Deadpool got turned into antiheroes just because they got so popular with the audience, who were mostly male. It's like when wrestling heels become popular and the crowd starts cheering for them, they become good guys because it's a sensible business move. In comics, so long as it's limited to lower-tier villains whose crimes weren't really that bad, it can work well enough. Writing with a female audience in mind wasn't really a thing most cape comics were doing until the 2010s, unless it was a book that had a disproportionately high female audience and the people working on it knew that.
Anonymous No.149678492
>>149678370
I really liked her in the animated series.

As someone who loves evil female supervillains, it's worth discussing the original female super-villain being Fah Lo Suee, daughter of Fu Manchu (the original modern supervillain). A lot of pulp fiction hero stories would run with Fah Lo Suee's premise as the daughter and ally to her father, and include that for their own villains, either giving them innocent daughters who align themselves with the hero, villainous daughters who betray their father for the hero (or stay loyal to their fathers and ultimately die because of it), or female allies/subordinates who do the same.

>You can see Fah Lo Suee's legacy in Bond Girls, Talia Al Ghul, and Karai.

Some pulps would depict female villains as their own independent parties or as the leaders of evil men, but this wasn't too common. A real standout was the Golden Amazon as a villain protagonist.
Anonymous No.149678593 >>149679109 >>149681530
>>149678288
>implying that Harley's poor judgement of the Joker at Arkham was due to Harley being ill-equipped as a psychiatrist...because Harley slept her way through college.
He's not someone ANY doctor was actually going to get anywhere with.

The point is not that she was an idiot and a bad psychiatrist. The point is that even before the Joker got involved she was a dangerous mind and practiced manipulator; she understood how to get the things she wanted without effort. The entire comic is about how Harley ISN'T just some ditzy cheerleader, but a capable threat in her own right, one that would surpass the Joker if not for him being her weakness.
Anonymous No.149679109 >>149679272
>>149678593
So she really is a bitch, why do DC praise such bad behavior?
Anonymous No.149679170
>>149678288
>That's not even getting into the comic adaptation of Mad Love
This isn't really important but my autism demands I tell you that the episode is adapted from the comic not the other way around.
Anonymous No.149679272
>>149679109
You just wrote a thesis on why superhero movies have to constantly rewrite fine details in the character backstory.
Anonymous No.149680056 >>149680795
>>149677953
Wasn't that character the writer's self insert? She truly is a dreadful writer.
Anonymous No.149680795
>>149680056
I don't know but I have no problem believing it.
Anonymous No.149681530
>>149678288
>>149678593
Mad Love isn't DCU canon. There are references to events that happen in Mad Love that are canon, but the actual story itself is not canon.
Anonymous No.149681772 >>149684292
>>149674726
>murders hundreds of children with bombs in Nintendo DSs

No.
Anonymous No.149681856
>>149676952
>he forgot to change his filename
shalom rabbi!
Anonymous No.149682040
>>149676952
I wonder who could be behind this post.
https://youtu.be/2bEZQ00OOxY?si=pJBOkfUUIew3WYcr
Anonymous No.149682244
>>149674397 (OP)
>>149675839
Worse than that she wants to kill ALL fauna to benefit flora. So that means she wants to kill even harmless herbivore species and even micro organisms. Bitch is crazy evil. From her point of view if you're not part of the flora you are an acceptable target to kill off. She's also a hypocrite because she uses experiments to make flora aka plants behave no different than the fauna that she's trying to kill in the first place. And I hate how no one calls this out. I hate Ivy because she's extremely evil but every fucking annoying simp treats her like a hero.

And in some publications she's part of the Bat Family along with Harley yes this bullshit has happened a few times. Then again DC published a pregnant Joker comic officially. I swear the horrible writing alone should kill comics but they persist for no good reason except comic book fans have no standards.
Anonymous No.149682375
>>149674669
Supergirl has never been popular and more popular than Harley? Come on. Harley is manic pixie girl with a psychotic violent side easy character to utilize in many media. Supergirl for starters destroys the whole Last Kryptonian element to Superman simply by existing. Supergirl has never become a worthwhile character with her own niche. Even Dick Grayson at least had his time with the Teen Titans to fall back on. Supergirl is and forever will be a mediocre character went nowhere. And I think Warner is in for a disappointment if they think that Supergirl is going to be popular.

If Harley's Suicide Squad didn't do good at the box office then Supergirl will perform worse because she's a big unremarkable character wholesale. The most famous thing about Supegirls is that she's kicked out of the present to become part of the Legion of Super Heroes in the future and once you do time travel shit like that it's a huge mess. Supergirl is usually thrown into the Legion of Super Heroes when the writers realize they got nothing to work with for Supergirl in the present. And I suspect Gunn is going to follow this same routine because Supergirl is shit.
Anonymous No.149684159
>>149678288
I like the idea of Harley sleeping her way through college, and being an ill equipped psychiatrist. It really goes to show just how shitty Arkham is. Either they don't have a good vetting process, or every psychiatrist worth their salt won't get anywhere near Arkham.
Anonymous No.149684186
>>149674397 (OP)
Because they're hot and deserve it more than ugly men
The Demon !!M8l/yr+lkFj No.149684292
>>149674841

She never crosses the line herself and does not kill for one.

>>149681772

Literally one fucking writer makes this one story 15 years ago that is never mentioned or referenced ever again,
Anonymous No.149684318
For fuck's sake it's villain not villian.
Anonymous No.149684521
>>149675681
If "a good guy tried to appeal to her humanity (it didn't work)" is all it takes for a villain to be a sympathetic tragedy, the bar is way too fucking low. And if a tragic backstory is all it takes, almost every modern villain (and hero) fits the bill, regardless of gender.
Anonymous No.149684568
>>149674397 (OP)
Female villains can never be threatening so they're shit by default.
Anonymous No.149684767
Here's my take on this; every major comic book character existed for so long they have plenty of material that if you would hold against them, would completely derail them. So just like them acting like idiots, or suffering embarassing defeats, worst of crimes tend to bd swept under the carpet.

The big issue is that most of writers have only two ideas how to make villain interesting - have them eat a puppy or tell sad weepy story about them taking care of a puppy. Remember when Absorbing Man raped someone? Or when Wrecker killed kids just to spite Thing?

If you check their past closely, any attempt to make Luthor, Doom, Penguin, Doc Ock or Killer Croc any bit likable should ring hollow.

Id say that there are around as many female as male villains that are redeemed or treated as sympathetic....Thing is , there are way more male villains period. Once you purge anti-villains and anti-heroes, You have tons and of dudes and bunch of no-names on female side.
Anonymous No.149684947
>>149675614
absolutely. or at least leader of the gotham city sirens
Anonymous No.149685008
>>149674397 (OP)
Ivy is kind of a perfect storm of characteristics that should, in the mind of a liberal, be considered heroic (being female is good AN SICH, liking plants is good AN SICH, hating humanity over nature is good AN SICH, etc). They can't consider the possibility that a vegan woman who hates men could actually be a bad person since she ticks so many of the "goodperson" boxes.
Anonymous No.149685035 >>149685050 >>149685072
>>149674397 (OP)
How come lesbians always get a pass for being evil, but gays and bi's don't when it comes to comics?
Anonymous No.149685050
>>149685035
Who's a good male gay villain?
Lex Luthor?
Anonymous No.149685066 >>149685070 >>149685151
I mean, Freeza is a hero now.
Anonymous No.149685070
>>149685066
These things just go on for so long that character development alters so much of the cast to a massive degree.
Anonymous No.149685072
>>149685035
Poison Ivy is bi tho?
Anonymous No.149685151
>>149685066
No, he (was) too weak to contest gogeta so he just left earth alone for the time being. He is still an evil being.
Anonymous No.149685356
>>149674397 (OP)
Lesbians don't like evil women. Look at She-ra and Steven Universe. Men make heroes vs villains, but lesbians see every woman as a victim.